Julie Stauffer

<<many unschooling parents seem to have kids that don't struggle with
choice>>

Think there might be some correlation there?

I have 5 kids. My oldest makes very responsible, classy choices for herself
most all the time. She is 11 and completely makes all of her own decisions.
Sometimes she is pleased with the results and sometimes not.

My 8yo is a wild man. He is running flat out all day. He is loud,
rambunctious, tense, etc.. He makes all of his own decisions and he is very
often disappointed in the results. I talk with him about how others may
view the things he does, possible consequences to his actions that I see,
but he makes the final decisions. Just now is he starting to make the
connections between actions and consequences. It took him a long time and
he still has very far to go, but if I was setting the limits he wouldn't
have gotten this far.

My others are still little but continue to make most of their own decisions.
I have noticed that if they are doing something that seems "wrong" to me, if
I stop and ask them about it, they have very valid reasons for doing what
they are doing.

Julie

Joseph Fuerst

> I'm not going to rehash ALL of the mystery that is my son right now.
> If you are really interested you can go read in the archives what
> I've said before. Yes, I have to set limits for him now, while he is
> learning about himself. Once he has figured out where his problems
> lie, he can take control for himself.

But stop asking me to explain because it just prolongs
> the conversation.
>
> Bridget
>
But, Bridget, the list has changed a lot in 5 months. And aren't these
lists about having conversations/discussions? Joanna said she arrived at
the tail end of what happened in the fall. Perhaps she thinks you'd like to
try to explain this again with the knowledge that those who you perceived as
'attacking' you either aren't here or won't be 'attacking'.

I think many people have neitheer the time nor the inclination to read
through the archives....and if we're trying to be past all the conflict of
that period, why would we send people back there in the archives?

I'm asking these things respectfully.
Susan, who is tempted to want to try and understand the issues regarding
Wyndham again, in a new light.

P.S. As to your post about some being mired in the feelings about the past
conflict, you are including yourself in that, right? You did say
something recently about....posts like that call for a response, but we're
not supposed to be re-hashing the past..and how you struggle with
that...(I'll admit to paraphrasing and being clear on the fact that this is
the message I got; if it's not the one you meant, perhaps you'll clarify)

rumpleteasermom

Actually, I said if I sound defensive it is because I haven't gotten
over the past here. And I also said that it is frustrating right now
because we are not supposed to bring up past grievances but that
hamstrings us when someone paints an inaccurate rosy picture of
certain things that can be answered by pointing directly to a
specific post from back then.

As for the issue of Wyndham, I just can't win here. If I talk about
him I get blasted because he is not unschooled by certain people's
standards and I'm told to stop talking about it because I
am "watering down the term" even when I specifically say there are
things we do with him that are not his choice and that even I think
he probably should not be considered an unschooler right now. In
other words, even after Sarah pointed out that I was not making it
clear enough that he is not unschooled but rather on a journey trying
to get there and I started being careful to include that in every
post in which I talked about him, I was still being told that I was
giving an inaccurate picture of unschooling and watering down the
term.
When I say I am done talking about him because I think most of you
have heard enough, I'm told that I should explain again.

Bridget


--- In Unschooling-dotcom@y..., "Joseph Fuerst" <fuerst@f...> wrote:
> > I'm not going to rehash ALL of the mystery that is my son right
now.
> > If you are really interested you can go read in the archives what
> > I've said before. Yes, I have to set limits for him now, while
he is
> > learning about himself. Once he has figured out where his
problems
> > lie, he can take control for himself.
>
> But stop asking me to explain because it just prolongs
> > the conversation.
> >
> > Bridget
> >
> But, Bridget, the list has changed a lot in 5 months. And aren't
these
> lists about having conversations/discussions? Joanna said she
arrived at
> the tail end of what happened in the fall. Perhaps she thinks
you'd like to
> try to explain this again with the knowledge that those who you
perceived as
> 'attacking' you either aren't here or won't be 'attacking'.
>
> I think many people have neitheer the time nor the inclination to
read
> through the archives....and if we're trying to be past all the
conflict of
> that period, why would we send people back there in the archives?
>
> I'm asking these things respectfully.
> Susan, who is tempted to want to try and understand the issues
regarding
> Wyndham again, in a new light.
>
> P.S. As to your post about some being mired in the feelings about
the past
> conflict, you are including yourself in that, right? You did say
> something recently about....posts like that call for a response,
but we're
> not supposed to be re-hashing the past..and how you struggle with
> that...(I'll admit to paraphrasing and being clear on the fact that
this is
> the message I got; if it's not the one you meant, perhaps you'll
clarify)

pumpkin_kisses_fall_wishes

--- In Unschooling-dotcom@y..., "Julie Stauffer" <jnjstau@g...> wrote:
> <<many unschooling parents seem to have kids that don't struggle
with choice>>
>
Julie wrote: Think there might be some correlation there?

Me: I do see that there could be a strong correlation, but the rest
of your post clearly shows that there is a process involved. You
spend time talking to your children and examining their decisions
without forcing or coercing them to do what you think is best. Their
decision making abilities didn't develop in a vacuum simply because
they are unschooled. Your parenting style appears to be a great
influence, and, from reading the messages here, I'm starting to see
that one's parenting style cannot be divorced from unschooling.

My two oldest children, by contrast, haven't been unschooled, but my
12yo daughter makes very responsible, classy choices for herself most
of the time as well. This I attribute to my parenting style and her
personality bent. My 12 yo son, on the other hand, does not make
decisions that are in his best interest. His decisions have been a
threat to his own safety and the safety of others, at times. Like
you and your son, we spend a great deal of time talking him through
the cause and effect of his actions, but he often doesn't "get it"
until he has experienced a consequence that is painful for him. He
has been this way since birth, it seems. Would unschooling/NCP change
his personality bent,I wonder?

Fetteroll

on 1/29/02 1:00 PM, pumpkin_kisses_fall_wishes at djac99_1999@...
wrote:

> Would unschooling/NCP change his personality bent,I wonder?

I suspect he would still take risks but perhaps learn sooner how to search
out the consequences and deal with them since they'd be his responsibility.
(To some extent.) Some people are wired that way. To some people the actions
are worth the consequences even if the rest of us can't see how it possibly
could be so. Why would it be worth the risk to jump your motorcycle across
20 tractor trailer trucks? Why would it be worth the risk to test fly
experimental planes? Why would it be worth the risk to experiment with
explosive chemicals to create bigger and better fireworks?

What kind of risks does he take?

Joyce


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