Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Digest Number 1774
Julie Stauffer
<<In a life so free of responsibilities>>
Kids will take on responsibilities by doing things that interest them or
they enjoy.
Adriane (11) has lots of self imposed responsibilities. She enjoys
gymnastics and takes responsibility to work out 5 hours a week in class and
practice additionally on her own at home. She shows goats and rabbits with
4-H. She daily feeds her goat and 6 rabbits, twice weekly cleans cages,
grooms them. She is interested in karate and works out 5 hours a week in
class and practices on her own. Adriane has never been required to practice
yet she is always prepared. She keeps her room fairly clean, cleans the
upstairs bathroom and does the dishes after dinner. She chose these chores.
Zach (8) plays baseball and gymnastics. He practices daily with never a
prompt. He shows rabbits and daily feeds them, twice a week cleans their
cages, grooms them etc.. He cleans up his room occasionally and cleans off
the table after dinner. He also takes charge of burning the trash and
mowing the yard.
Marsie (5) is in gymnastics and again practices daily without a word from
any of us. She feeds the cat and washes lunch dishes because she wants to.
She likes to help with laundry and works diligently to learn new magic
tricks.
Daniel (3) works the washing machine for me. Michelle (2) cleans all spills
on the kitchen floor.
Kids want to be useful. I found that when they are little, we as a society
push them to the side. We are in a hurry and want things done "right". But
given a chance, kids work quite hard.
Julie
Kids will take on responsibilities by doing things that interest them or
they enjoy.
Adriane (11) has lots of self imposed responsibilities. She enjoys
gymnastics and takes responsibility to work out 5 hours a week in class and
practice additionally on her own at home. She shows goats and rabbits with
4-H. She daily feeds her goat and 6 rabbits, twice weekly cleans cages,
grooms them. She is interested in karate and works out 5 hours a week in
class and practices on her own. Adriane has never been required to practice
yet she is always prepared. She keeps her room fairly clean, cleans the
upstairs bathroom and does the dishes after dinner. She chose these chores.
Zach (8) plays baseball and gymnastics. He practices daily with never a
prompt. He shows rabbits and daily feeds them, twice a week cleans their
cages, grooms them etc.. He cleans up his room occasionally and cleans off
the table after dinner. He also takes charge of burning the trash and
mowing the yard.
Marsie (5) is in gymnastics and again practices daily without a word from
any of us. She feeds the cat and washes lunch dishes because she wants to.
She likes to help with laundry and works diligently to learn new magic
tricks.
Daniel (3) works the washing machine for me. Michelle (2) cleans all spills
on the kitchen floor.
Kids want to be useful. I found that when they are little, we as a society
push them to the side. We are in a hurry and want things done "right". But
given a chance, kids work quite hard.
Julie
Leslie Moyer
I'm a long-time unschooler. New here, though--only been around a few weeks.
I don't have any vested interest in any of this bickering going on. But you
know what it all reminds me of? It reminds me of Christian fundamentalists
who "compete" over who is more "holy". Like that Cheryl Seelhoff stuff--how
others were judging her for her "holiness" (or not)....she wasn't "Christian
enough" for Sue Welch, et.al.
Well, I see the SAME thing happening posting on Unschooling.com and with
some of the bullies here now and, particularly, in the archives. If you're
part of the "in" club, then you're given the benefit of the doubt when you
post....you can joke or relax and know that others will accept you as-is.
BUT....until you're part of that "in" club (which you can enter ONLY by
kissing the butt of the biggest bullies and thanking them for the abuse they
pile on) you are subject to some second-class status and deemed NOT an
"unschooler". I feel "they" are using the word "unschooler" as others use
"Christian".....like it is a label to be proven--to be earned. If you
haven't "earned" it yet, then you are dirt and deserve to be treated as
such. No matter what actually happens in your home.
It's sickening.
This is NOT about watering down "unschooling" or letting it drift into
"anything goes" territory. It's not about defining unschooling and
CERTAINLY not about helping ANYONE.
This is about power politics. Plain and simple. Bow before the unschooling
Gods/goddesses or pay the price. Kiss ass. Love having "it" shoved down
your throat. In fact, thank them for the privilege.
As for me? No thanks. I could hang out here and ignore the bullies, but
that's not easy for me. And I don't need the hassle in my life. I've got 2
busy teens and a little one who I'd rather spend my time with.
I'm leaving now. Just wanted to say my peace.
Have fun.
--Leslie Moyer
I don't have any vested interest in any of this bickering going on. But you
know what it all reminds me of? It reminds me of Christian fundamentalists
who "compete" over who is more "holy". Like that Cheryl Seelhoff stuff--how
others were judging her for her "holiness" (or not)....she wasn't "Christian
enough" for Sue Welch, et.al.
Well, I see the SAME thing happening posting on Unschooling.com and with
some of the bullies here now and, particularly, in the archives. If you're
part of the "in" club, then you're given the benefit of the doubt when you
post....you can joke or relax and know that others will accept you as-is.
BUT....until you're part of that "in" club (which you can enter ONLY by
kissing the butt of the biggest bullies and thanking them for the abuse they
pile on) you are subject to some second-class status and deemed NOT an
"unschooler". I feel "they" are using the word "unschooler" as others use
"Christian".....like it is a label to be proven--to be earned. If you
haven't "earned" it yet, then you are dirt and deserve to be treated as
such. No matter what actually happens in your home.
It's sickening.
This is NOT about watering down "unschooling" or letting it drift into
"anything goes" territory. It's not about defining unschooling and
CERTAINLY not about helping ANYONE.
This is about power politics. Plain and simple. Bow before the unschooling
Gods/goddesses or pay the price. Kiss ass. Love having "it" shoved down
your throat. In fact, thank them for the privilege.
As for me? No thanks. I could hang out here and ignore the bullies, but
that's not easy for me. And I don't need the hassle in my life. I've got 2
busy teens and a little one who I'd rather spend my time with.
I'm leaving now. Just wanted to say my peace.
Have fun.
--Leslie Moyer
Sarah Carothers
Very accurate description you've given, Leslie! I couldn't have said it better. I despise seeing the bullies run the show here and how they think that their sarcastic, flippant responses are so wonderful. It is borderline abusive and really not necessary.
Yet I still enjoy getting to know new unschoolers and mingling with old ones. So what to do? I thought that by the list splitting, we'd see a change but because of the way the list is set up, the bullies can come back anytime and stir up trouble. I've written to each new person who has left within the last few weeks (the ones I was aware of) and asked them not to go but the majority has responded that they don't need this sh*t in their lives. I don't either! So, I am going to set up another list for anyone interested.
Group name :
unschoolfamilies
Group home page :
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/unschoolfamilies
It *will* be moderated (free posting except when it's determined you are posting hostile, bullish language.. determined by the moderators) and you can't just automatically sub to it(an intro letter from you is required). It's a pain to set it up that way but it is obviously necessary.
I hate to see that this list has come to this but at the same time, I'm ready to move on and have some more discussion like we were having here prior to this week-end.
Enough is enough...
Sarah (another long-time unschooler!)
<I'm a long-time unschooler. New here, though--only been
around a few weeks.
I don't have any vested interest in any of this
bickering going on. But you
know what it all reminds me of? It reminds me of
Christian fundamentalists
who "compete" over who is more "holy". Like that Cheryl
Seelhoff stuff--how
others were judging her for her "holiness" (or
not)....she wasn't "Christian
enough" for Sue Welch, et.al.
Well, I see the SAME thing happening posting on
Unschooling.com and with
some of the bullies here now and, particularly, in the
archives. If you're
part of the "in" club, then you're given the benefit of
the doubt when you
post....you can joke or relax and know that others will
accept you as-is.
BUT....until you're part of that "in" club (which you
can enter ONLY by
kissing the butt of the biggest bullies and thanking
them for the abuse they
pile on) you are subject to some second-class status and
deemed NOT an
"unschooler". I feel "they" are using the word
"unschooler" as others use
"Christian".....like it is a label to be proven--to be
earned. If you
haven't "earned" it yet, then you are dirt and deserve
to be treated as
such. No matter what actually happens in your home.
It's sickening.
This is NOT about watering down "unschooling" or letting
it drift into
"anything goes" territory. It's not about defining
unschooling and
CERTAINLY not about helping ANYONE.
This is about power politics. Plain and simple. Bow
before the unschooling
Gods/goddesses or pay the price. Kiss ass. Love having
"it" shoved down
your throat. In fact, thank them for the privilege.
As for me? No thanks. I could hang out here and ignore
the bullies, but
that's not easy for me. And I don't need the hassle in
my life. I've got 2
busy teens and a little one who I'd rather spend my time
with.
I'm leaving now. Just wanted to say my peace.
Have fun.
--Leslie Moyer
Sarah Carothers, puddles@... on 1/27/2002
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Yet I still enjoy getting to know new unschoolers and mingling with old ones. So what to do? I thought that by the list splitting, we'd see a change but because of the way the list is set up, the bullies can come back anytime and stir up trouble. I've written to each new person who has left within the last few weeks (the ones I was aware of) and asked them not to go but the majority has responded that they don't need this sh*t in their lives. I don't either! So, I am going to set up another list for anyone interested.
Group name :
unschoolfamilies
Group home page :
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/unschoolfamilies
It *will* be moderated (free posting except when it's determined you are posting hostile, bullish language.. determined by the moderators) and you can't just automatically sub to it(an intro letter from you is required). It's a pain to set it up that way but it is obviously necessary.
I hate to see that this list has come to this but at the same time, I'm ready to move on and have some more discussion like we were having here prior to this week-end.
Enough is enough...
Sarah (another long-time unschooler!)
<I'm a long-time unschooler. New here, though--only been
around a few weeks.
I don't have any vested interest in any of this
bickering going on. But you
know what it all reminds me of? It reminds me of
Christian fundamentalists
who "compete" over who is more "holy". Like that Cheryl
Seelhoff stuff--how
others were judging her for her "holiness" (or
not)....she wasn't "Christian
enough" for Sue Welch, et.al.
Well, I see the SAME thing happening posting on
Unschooling.com and with
some of the bullies here now and, particularly, in the
archives. If you're
part of the "in" club, then you're given the benefit of
the doubt when you
post....you can joke or relax and know that others will
accept you as-is.
BUT....until you're part of that "in" club (which you
can enter ONLY by
kissing the butt of the biggest bullies and thanking
them for the abuse they
pile on) you are subject to some second-class status and
deemed NOT an
"unschooler". I feel "they" are using the word
"unschooler" as others use
"Christian".....like it is a label to be proven--to be
earned. If you
haven't "earned" it yet, then you are dirt and deserve
to be treated as
such. No matter what actually happens in your home.
It's sickening.
This is NOT about watering down "unschooling" or letting
it drift into
"anything goes" territory. It's not about defining
unschooling and
CERTAINLY not about helping ANYONE.
This is about power politics. Plain and simple. Bow
before the unschooling
Gods/goddesses or pay the price. Kiss ass. Love having
"it" shoved down
your throat. In fact, thank them for the privilege.
As for me? No thanks. I could hang out here and ignore
the bullies, but
that's not easy for me. And I don't need the hassle in
my life. I've got 2
busy teens and a little one who I'd rather spend my time
with.
I'm leaving now. Just wanted to say my peace.
Have fun.
--Leslie Moyer
>>>>>>>>>>>>>.--
Sarah Carothers, puddles@... on 1/27/2002
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Karin
I really wish you would reconsider and stick around. I have so enjoyed reading your opinions and viewpoints relating to your personal unschooling experiences. However, if you decide to leave, at least you have helped me in the short time you have been here.
Karin
Leslie Moyer wrote:
I'm leaving now. Just wanted to say my peace.
Have fun.
--Leslie Moyer
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Karin
Leslie Moyer wrote:
I'm leaving now. Just wanted to say my peace.
Have fun.
--Leslie Moyer
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]