A child's view
Pat Cald...
I just needed to give you guys an update on how things were going since we eliminated rules in our house. Last night (at midnight) I was responding to an email when my 12 yo dd asked why I spend so much time on my emails. I told her it was kind of like my school because I learn so much. She asked if I would come upstairs with her and talk to her about all the things I have learned about unschooling. So up we went and I told her about how I learned that it was important for parents to let their children set their own limits. She agreed that she needs to be able to do that for herself and then said "and aren't we doing a great job with it?" She was so proud of how she is conducting her own life. I asked why she thought other kids want to spend so much time in front of the tv or playing video games. She said she felt like doing that when she was in ps because she just needed an escape. Now, there is so much interesting stuff to do she just uses the tv and all to take a little break. Not only has she taken control of her own life, she also gets the satisfaction that comes from doing a great job all by yourself. This is so much more beneficial than just following the house rules. Thanks everyone.
On a smilar note, during the discussion on tv with this group, I had mentioned I take the opportunity to talk to my kids about our family values. A few people commented that they do not do this, they let their children decide on their own values. Where are these values coming from? Where do the messages come from that kids use to form their own values? I feel that it is comforting to kids to be talked to about the things that we feel are important as a family. I feel it brings us together. Certainly an open minded attitute is important. Kids should feel comfortable expressing their own ideas and disagreeing with values that we adults have without being judged, but I feel it is my parental duty to want to weigh in on the whole process.
Pat
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
On a smilar note, during the discussion on tv with this group, I had mentioned I take the opportunity to talk to my kids about our family values. A few people commented that they do not do this, they let their children decide on their own values. Where are these values coming from? Where do the messages come from that kids use to form their own values? I feel that it is comforting to kids to be talked to about the things that we feel are important as a family. I feel it brings us together. Certainly an open minded attitute is important. Kids should feel comfortable expressing their own ideas and disagreeing with values that we adults have without being judged, but I feel it is my parental duty to want to weigh in on the whole process.
Pat
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sarah Carothers
Pat,
I'm glad things are going so well!
About values, I hope I didn't give the impression that we don't talk
about my values and what I feel is important and so on. That is a
part of a child learning values imo! These things aren't levied as
rules; rather, they are discussed as why I do the things I do.
But the other thing to mention is that I think we're *born* good
souls (not bad and in need of being saved as some religions promote).
I think we venture away from being 'good moral souls' because of our
environment. So, in a home where good values are being practiced all
the time, it's something the children experience as just a way of
life. How *else* is there to be?
Sarah
Sarah Carothers
puddles@...: puddles@...
I'm glad things are going so well!
About values, I hope I didn't give the impression that we don't talk
about my values and what I feel is important and so on. That is a
part of a child learning values imo! These things aren't levied as
rules; rather, they are discussed as why I do the things I do.
But the other thing to mention is that I think we're *born* good
souls (not bad and in need of being saved as some religions promote).
I think we venture away from being 'good moral souls' because of our
environment. So, in a home where good values are being practiced all
the time, it's something the children experience as just a way of
life. How *else* is there to be?
Sarah
Sarah Carothers
puddles@...: puddles@...
On Wed, 16 Jan 2002 09:23:20 -0500, Pat Cald... wrote:
>Where are these values coming from? Where do the
>messages come from that kids use to form their own values? I
>feel that it is comforting to kids to be talked to about the
>things that we feel are important as a family. I feel it
>brings us together. Certainly an open minded attitute is
>important. Kids should feel comfortable expressing their own
>ideas and disagreeing with values that we adults have without
>being judged, but I feel it is my parental duty to want to
>weigh in on the whole process.
>
>Pat
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Groundhoggirl
On Wednesday, January 16, 2002, at 08:23 AM, Pat Cald... wrote:
Wow. That's great. This is what unschooling is all about! I'm very
happy for you.
=================
how I treat other people, etc. Also, both my boys are very inquisitive
and ask many questions. We talk and discuss many different subjects
every day. I suppose I share my values when I respond to those also.
I've never been very clear as to what exactly a "value" is. I just
looked it up in the dictionary - that didn't help much. I guess, to me,
a value is something that is important to me. I think it would be
pretty hard for me not to share these things with my boys as we just
live our lives every day. Values are not something that I formally talk
about with my children. I believe my actions and behaviors show them
what my values are.
Mimi
> I just needed to give you guys an update on how things were going since=============================
> we eliminated rules in our house. Last night (at midnight) I was
> responding to an email when my 12 yo dd asked why I spend so much time
> on my emails. I told her it was kind of like my school because I learn
> so much. She asked if I would come upstairs with her and talk to her
> about all the things I have learned about unschooling. So up we went
> and I told her about how I learned that it was important for parents to
> let their children set their own limits. She agreed that she needs to
> be able to do that for herself and then said "and aren't we doing a
> great job with it?" She was so proud of how she is conducting her own
> life. I asked why she thought other kids want to spend so much time in
> front of the tv or playing video games. She said she felt like doing
> that when she was in ps because she just needed an escape. Now, there
> is so much interesting stuff to do she just uses the tv and all to take
> a!
> little break. Not only has she taken control of her own life, she
> also gets the satisfaction that comes from doing a great job all by
> yourself. This is so much more beneficial than just following the
> house rules. Thanks everyone.
Wow. That's great. This is what unschooling is all about! I'm very
happy for you.
=================
>I think my values probably come across with my actions. How I behave,
> On a smilar note, during the discussion on tv with this group, I had
> mentioned I take the opportunity to talk to my kids about our family
> values. A few people commented that they do not do this, they let
> their children decide on their own values. Where are these values
> coming from? Where do the messages come from that kids use to form
> their own values? I feel that it is comforting to kids to be talked to
> about the things that we feel are important as a family. I feel it
> brings us together. Certainly an open minded attitute is important.
> Kids should feel comfortable expressing their own ideas and disagreeing
> with values that we adults have without being judged, but I feel it is
> my parental duty to want to weigh in on the whole process.
>
> Pat
> ====================
how I treat other people, etc. Also, both my boys are very inquisitive
and ask many questions. We talk and discuss many different subjects
every day. I suppose I share my values when I respond to those also.
I've never been very clear as to what exactly a "value" is. I just
looked it up in the dictionary - that didn't help much. I guess, to me,
a value is something that is important to me. I think it would be
pretty hard for me not to share these things with my boys as we just
live our lives every day. Values are not something that I formally talk
about with my children. I believe my actions and behaviors show them
what my values are.
Mimi
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> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
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Leslie Moyer
+ On a similar note, during the discussion on tv with this group, I
+ had mentioned I take the opportunity to talk to my kids about our
+ family values.
Pat,
I don't have much time this a.m. to formulate a reply to your "values"
discussion, but here's a "quickie post" anyway! :-)
I do just what you do re: values discussion. If I thought life were "value
neutral" I probably wouldn't be homeschooling. My practice has been to work
hard to "brainwash" (only partly kidding) my kids when they were young about
my values--knowing that as they get older and older they'll have many other
influences, too. I think if I give them a good base when I *do* have
influence, they'll be better set to form their own set of values when
they're older....and hopefully they won't conflict with mine *too* much.
(My older two--at 15 and 13 are now venturing off on their own values
paths....not much conflict yet re: values, thankfully.)
I think the key is to realize that as they *do* get older, you will
naturally have less influence and at that point trying to force your values
on your kids has a tendency to backfire. I agree with the "modeling" points
already mentioned by Sarah and Mimi.
I find my kids desperately want my opinions about value sorts of things. My
favorite "game" is to listen to talk radio in the car and then pick some
point they're discussing and turn the radio off and discuss it ourselves.
(We do this a *lot* with Dr. Laura and NPR talk shows!) I *love* to play
devil's advocate with them. I'll either ask them their opinion or present
one side and then ask them how they feel about the topic.....then play
devil's advocate and say "but what about __" (to give them the other side).
If it's an issue that I do have an opinion about, I'll eventually tell them
(after I've tried to elicit their opinion, usually). If I don't have an
opinion (if I am conflicted myself), I'll just give the reasons for my
conflict--the points I feel are important on both sides of the issue. I
want them to learn to think critically. I think if they can do this, they
*will* make good judgments in their lives.
Better go--too nice a day here in Oklahoma to sit at the computer!
--Leslie Moyer / Oklahoma
+ had mentioned I take the opportunity to talk to my kids about our
+ family values.
Pat,
I don't have much time this a.m. to formulate a reply to your "values"
discussion, but here's a "quickie post" anyway! :-)
I do just what you do re: values discussion. If I thought life were "value
neutral" I probably wouldn't be homeschooling. My practice has been to work
hard to "brainwash" (only partly kidding) my kids when they were young about
my values--knowing that as they get older and older they'll have many other
influences, too. I think if I give them a good base when I *do* have
influence, they'll be better set to form their own set of values when
they're older....and hopefully they won't conflict with mine *too* much.
(My older two--at 15 and 13 are now venturing off on their own values
paths....not much conflict yet re: values, thankfully.)
I think the key is to realize that as they *do* get older, you will
naturally have less influence and at that point trying to force your values
on your kids has a tendency to backfire. I agree with the "modeling" points
already mentioned by Sarah and Mimi.
I find my kids desperately want my opinions about value sorts of things. My
favorite "game" is to listen to talk radio in the car and then pick some
point they're discussing and turn the radio off and discuss it ourselves.
(We do this a *lot* with Dr. Laura and NPR talk shows!) I *love* to play
devil's advocate with them. I'll either ask them their opinion or present
one side and then ask them how they feel about the topic.....then play
devil's advocate and say "but what about __" (to give them the other side).
If it's an issue that I do have an opinion about, I'll eventually tell them
(after I've tried to elicit their opinion, usually). If I don't have an
opinion (if I am conflicted myself), I'll just give the reasons for my
conflict--the points I feel are important on both sides of the issue. I
want them to learn to think critically. I think if they can do this, they
*will* make good judgments in their lives.
Better go--too nice a day here in Oklahoma to sit at the computer!
--Leslie Moyer / Oklahoma
Leslie Moyer
Oh yea--too cool discussion you just had w/ your 12 y/o dd!! You're already
reaping the rewards of unschooling!! Way to go, Pat!! :-)
--Leslie Moyer
reaping the rewards of unschooling!! Way to go, Pat!! :-)
--Leslie Moyer
Pat Cald...
Mimi wrote:
Also values that we want our children to have an easier time adopting when they are older like eating right, exercising, the importance of personal hygiene. For example, we talk about the value of exercise. Sure I model these values by exercising regularly but I feel discussing why I exercise will help them become life long exercisers more easily. I feel if this is done in a manner of pure discussion and not as a sermon, it will be well received. I have decided that once my children are grown, the discussion of values must end. They will have chosen their own,have no question of what ours are and therefore there could only be harm in further discussion. I could go on and on but it would probably be more than anyone wants to know.
Pat
I've never been very clear as to what exactly a "value" is. I just
looked it up in the dictionary - that didn't help much. I guess, to me,
a value is something that is important to me. I think it would be
pretty hard for me not to share these things with my boys as we just
live our lives every day. Values are not something that I formally talk
about with my children. I believe my actions and behaviors show them
what my values are.
Mimi
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>I think my values probably come across with my actions. How I behave,I think the values that do not come across with our actions are the ones that we are not dealing with at this time in our lives. One that comes to mind is the value of modesty. I feel that my daughters need to know that by wearing styles that are provocative, even if that is the in style, it sends a message that you want your body on display. What traits do they value in a person? If your friends won't like you if you don't where the same style clothes then maybe these are not the type of friendships you want to cultivate. I make an effort to discuss many character traits with my kids because when I was a teenager, my mother did not talk to me about how mean I was being to one of my friends. I regret to this day how I behaved. Sure I've come to realize that behavior was wrong but it would have been nice to have a talk about it then. Maybe I would have been able to be proud of my character instead of ashamed.
>how I treat other people, etc. Also, both my boys are very inquisitive
>and ask many questions. We talk and discuss many different subjects
>every day. I suppose I share my values when I respond to those also.
Also values that we want our children to have an easier time adopting when they are older like eating right, exercising, the importance of personal hygiene. For example, we talk about the value of exercise. Sure I model these values by exercising regularly but I feel discussing why I exercise will help them become life long exercisers more easily. I feel if this is done in a manner of pure discussion and not as a sermon, it will be well received. I have decided that once my children are grown, the discussion of values must end. They will have chosen their own,have no question of what ours are and therefore there could only be harm in further discussion. I could go on and on but it would probably be more than anyone wants to know.
Pat
I've never been very clear as to what exactly a "value" is. I just
looked it up in the dictionary - that didn't help much. I guess, to me,
a value is something that is important to me. I think it would be
pretty hard for me not to share these things with my boys as we just
live our lives every day. Values are not something that I formally talk
about with my children. I believe my actions and behaviors show them
what my values are.
Mimi
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
> Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com
>
> To unsubscribe, set preferences, or read archives:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Unschooling-dotcom
>
> Another great list sponsored by Home Education Magazine!
> http://www.home-ed-magazine.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com
To unsubscribe, set preferences, or read archives:
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Another great list sponsored by Home Education Magazine!
http://www.home-ed-magazine.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
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