Intro.
Carrie Otterson
Hi everyone,
My name is Carrie, WAHM (work-at-home mom) to Oren (4.5) & Elke (2) and
partner to dh Jesse for almost 12 years. We live in Jackson County,
Kentucky (SE KY in the foothills of the Appalachians). We have a
non-working farm and hope to add goats, horses and pigs when we are done
with babies. We have been unschooling since birth, as I found John Holt
during my pregnancy with my son and recognized myself, lol! My sworn agenda
is to keep them out of public school! I'm a self-taught jewelry artist.
My kids have been unschoolers from birth, figuring out what that little
scooter thing was and could do on their own, and all of the other learning
children begin at birth. I can honestly say that they have figured out all
on their own which colors are which (with NO QUIZZES, imagine that), what
different animals are, how to count, etc. It has been incredibly
eye-opening for us because I never realized just how early the inane quizzes
and tests start (example - grandma: what is your name, how old are you, what
color is this, and on and on). Okay, yes, I'm a hardcore unschooler. I
always resisted forced learning myself and absolutely abhor tests, so it is
really personal for me.
We are pretty isolated and my son is needing more challenging and
stimulating things in his life. I am always looking for activities, etc. to
do which will challenge him in his new learning phase (he is beginning to
learn letters/words in a very holistic approach, is unwittingly doing basic
addition and subtraction and has even showed an understanding of
multiplication in our daily lives, and has an incredible vocabulary (english
and spanish) to rival most adults. He is just very ripe and starting to
show frustration because he is not stimulated enough in our daily lives. I
am looking for something to stimulate my creativity so that I can make a
more stimulating, learning rich environment for us. (any and all suggestions
appreciated!)
I am also looking for a good place to go to learn specifically about state
mandated homeschooling laws. Can anyone point me in the right direction?
I am mostly a lurker because I have so much going on, but I hope to
participate when I can. I'll definitely be soaking up the ideas!
Carrie
--
Carrie Otterson
WAHM to Oren (6/97)and Elke (12/99)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Wired Contemporary Jewelry
http://www.wiredjewelry.com
"Wisdom begins in wonder." - Socrates
My name is Carrie, WAHM (work-at-home mom) to Oren (4.5) & Elke (2) and
partner to dh Jesse for almost 12 years. We live in Jackson County,
Kentucky (SE KY in the foothills of the Appalachians). We have a
non-working farm and hope to add goats, horses and pigs when we are done
with babies. We have been unschooling since birth, as I found John Holt
during my pregnancy with my son and recognized myself, lol! My sworn agenda
is to keep them out of public school! I'm a self-taught jewelry artist.
My kids have been unschoolers from birth, figuring out what that little
scooter thing was and could do on their own, and all of the other learning
children begin at birth. I can honestly say that they have figured out all
on their own which colors are which (with NO QUIZZES, imagine that), what
different animals are, how to count, etc. It has been incredibly
eye-opening for us because I never realized just how early the inane quizzes
and tests start (example - grandma: what is your name, how old are you, what
color is this, and on and on). Okay, yes, I'm a hardcore unschooler. I
always resisted forced learning myself and absolutely abhor tests, so it is
really personal for me.
We are pretty isolated and my son is needing more challenging and
stimulating things in his life. I am always looking for activities, etc. to
do which will challenge him in his new learning phase (he is beginning to
learn letters/words in a very holistic approach, is unwittingly doing basic
addition and subtraction and has even showed an understanding of
multiplication in our daily lives, and has an incredible vocabulary (english
and spanish) to rival most adults. He is just very ripe and starting to
show frustration because he is not stimulated enough in our daily lives. I
am looking for something to stimulate my creativity so that I can make a
more stimulating, learning rich environment for us. (any and all suggestions
appreciated!)
I am also looking for a good place to go to learn specifically about state
mandated homeschooling laws. Can anyone point me in the right direction?
I am mostly a lurker because I have so much going on, but I hope to
participate when I can. I'll definitely be soaking up the ideas!
Carrie
--
Carrie Otterson
WAHM to Oren (6/97)and Elke (12/99)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Wired Contemporary Jewelry
http://www.wiredjewelry.com
"Wisdom begins in wonder." - Socrates
rumpleteasermom
Hi Carrie,
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SosinkyHS
Post message: [email protected]
Subscribe: [email protected]
You might try this group. It is for the three state area around
Cinci. If you are not in N. KY I'm sure they can point you to other
KY groups.
I'm actually way up in NE. Ohio but I joined that group when a
discussion I was in moved there. I hang around because they are
interesting.
Bridget
--- In Unschooling-dotcom@y..., "Carrie Otterson" <otterson@p...>
wrote:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SosinkyHS
Post message: [email protected]
Subscribe: [email protected]
You might try this group. It is for the three state area around
Cinci. If you are not in N. KY I'm sure they can point you to other
KY groups.
I'm actually way up in NE. Ohio but I joined that group when a
discussion I was in moved there. I hang around because they are
interesting.
Bridget
--- In Unschooling-dotcom@y..., "Carrie Otterson" <otterson@p...>
wrote:
>about state
> I am also looking for a good place to go to learn specifically
> mandated homeschooling laws. Can anyone point me in the rightdirection?
>
> Carrie
[email protected]
Well, I've answered a few posts, but not taken the time to introduce myself
and my family and I guess I'll do that now.
My name is Caroline (Caro) for short. I have seven children...five boys, two
girls ranging in age from 15 to 2.
We have been through the whole range of homeschooling styles, but I started
out as an unschooler many years ago. In fact, when I was introduced to
h/sing, I thought Holt was all there was. I remember remarking to my hubby
after we'd read articles about h/sing in the newspaper..."Do you believe that
people actually set up little schools in their own homes...then why don't
they just send the kids to school?"
Then, somehow, maybe it was the number of kids we had, insecurity, health
problems (I've got a ton of excuses), we got rigid. Really rigid. And I was
one of those h/ser's who was setting up the little school and ringing the
bell and scheduling my kids right down to when they were supposed to use the
john.
And I defended myself by saying...but look what they're learning...and the
relatives are so impressed. But, at the same time, our home life was falling
apart. The kids were always tense. I was ALWAYS tense. I felt like my life
was slipping away...I never even got outside because I was so busy making my
home into a school and then just trying to keep my home from falling apart.
I'm not trying to exaggerate here. It's really been stressful, and always a
voice nagged at me...but you know another way! And I did try, different
times, to respond. I joined other unschooling lists, attended a conference,
but I wasn't ready to get out of my "safety zone."
Now I've realized that I have to. It's no longer become important that I do
it or not because of what others think. My house has literally been falling
apart from the stress of trying to keep up this "system" that none of us
truly believed in.
In the weeks since I've come back here and read through my old, dusty copies
of Holt and other things, I've seen changes at home. I'd like to report that
everything is hunky-dory, but that's not true. But, I saw my husband laugh
with the kids tonight and tell them silly riddles. And I took my nine year
old and his brother to Wal-Mart tonight to buy Star Wars toys which they
don't need, but love to play with. I played ball outside with my kids
yesterday. I saw the full moon with them tonight. I've gone for a walk with
my dh four nights in a row.
To wrap this up, I want to say thanks. For all the straightforward,
jolt-me-out-of-my-reverie type comments and for the "be easy on
yourself...one step at a time" comments. They have all been helpful to me.
Even the discussion about unschooling, which some of you deemed a fight, has
been fascinating for me, and really helped me to clarify things.
I know that I will have frequent questions, doubts and pulling my hair out.
I know I'll be able to sound them out here. Thanks.
Caro
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
and my family and I guess I'll do that now.
My name is Caroline (Caro) for short. I have seven children...five boys, two
girls ranging in age from 15 to 2.
We have been through the whole range of homeschooling styles, but I started
out as an unschooler many years ago. In fact, when I was introduced to
h/sing, I thought Holt was all there was. I remember remarking to my hubby
after we'd read articles about h/sing in the newspaper..."Do you believe that
people actually set up little schools in their own homes...then why don't
they just send the kids to school?"
Then, somehow, maybe it was the number of kids we had, insecurity, health
problems (I've got a ton of excuses), we got rigid. Really rigid. And I was
one of those h/ser's who was setting up the little school and ringing the
bell and scheduling my kids right down to when they were supposed to use the
john.
And I defended myself by saying...but look what they're learning...and the
relatives are so impressed. But, at the same time, our home life was falling
apart. The kids were always tense. I was ALWAYS tense. I felt like my life
was slipping away...I never even got outside because I was so busy making my
home into a school and then just trying to keep my home from falling apart.
I'm not trying to exaggerate here. It's really been stressful, and always a
voice nagged at me...but you know another way! And I did try, different
times, to respond. I joined other unschooling lists, attended a conference,
but I wasn't ready to get out of my "safety zone."
Now I've realized that I have to. It's no longer become important that I do
it or not because of what others think. My house has literally been falling
apart from the stress of trying to keep up this "system" that none of us
truly believed in.
In the weeks since I've come back here and read through my old, dusty copies
of Holt and other things, I've seen changes at home. I'd like to report that
everything is hunky-dory, but that's not true. But, I saw my husband laugh
with the kids tonight and tell them silly riddles. And I took my nine year
old and his brother to Wal-Mart tonight to buy Star Wars toys which they
don't need, but love to play with. I played ball outside with my kids
yesterday. I saw the full moon with them tonight. I've gone for a walk with
my dh four nights in a row.
To wrap this up, I want to say thanks. For all the straightforward,
jolt-me-out-of-my-reverie type comments and for the "be easy on
yourself...one step at a time" comments. They have all been helpful to me.
Even the discussion about unschooling, which some of you deemed a fight, has
been fascinating for me, and really helped me to clarify things.
I know that I will have frequent questions, doubts and pulling my hair out.
I know I'll be able to sound them out here. Thanks.
Caro
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
Wow, Caro! Reading your post really touched me. We're still in the
beginning stages of unschooling/deciding to unschool right now, and that has
to be up there with one of the more inspirational things I've read about it,
honestly! Thanks so much for sending it and good luck with your unschooling!
: )
Sandra
Homeschooling Mom to Five
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
beginning stages of unschooling/deciding to unschool right now, and that has
to be up there with one of the more inspirational things I've read about it,
honestly! Thanks so much for sending it and good luck with your unschooling!
: )
Sandra
Homeschooling Mom to Five
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
finchstacy
> I saw the full moon with them tonight.But the full moon is tonight (11:00 pm EST). :-)
[email protected]
Sorry-it looked full outside! I wasn't paying attention to the
calendar...just how it looked. Astronomy is not my long suit!
Caro
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
calendar...just how it looked. Astronomy is not my long suit!
Caro
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 5/24/2002 8:22:46 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
fetteroll@... writes:
get really really clear about my own personal parenting philosophies.
--pamS
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
fetteroll@... writes:
> The TCS people helped me to get unschooling too :-)I don't think it helped me get unschooling so much as it certainly helped me
get really really clear about my own personal parenting philosophies.
--pamS
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 3/4/03 3:06:04 PM Central Standard Time,
[email protected] writes:
<< We've lived happily under this "system" for years. But I'm finding that
I don't have the energy to do the amount of cleaning up after other
people that it would take for me to be comfortable, anymore. >>
I believe in this system theoretically, and most of the time it works fine
here.
I ask, they usually help.
But we had a couple of tough days and I lost it.
We had two extra kids stay over, kids that I really, really like and love
having over.
I made food for the kids and brought it to them, they stayed on video games
from afternoon to the next morning (finally falling asleep about 6am) which
is no problem.
They were pretty quiet while I slept and did their own thing.
The problem was when dishes kept stacking up all over the living room and the
only kids bringing them to the kitchen were our guests! I cleaned up after
everyone a few times, reminding them that I'd like their dishes brought out
to the kitchen so food wouldn't dry onto them. Their friends left. They
continued for the next two days doing pretty much nothing but video games. I
got a little pushy today.
There was food all over the floor, dishes still being left even though I'd
requested them to be brought out several times, blankets and pillows
everywhere, yogurt containers half eaten all over...I LOST it!
I pointed out how very inconsiderate they were being by expecting me to clean
up and not lift a finger. I told them how stressed out all the mess makes me
(NO, I can't be happy in total disasters, I've tried) and they needed to shut
the tv off and help me gain some sanity.
They did of course.
But it pissed me off that I didn't get help until I was totally stressed.
I am fine with them being focused on their friends/video games....I'm fine
with doing most of the housework.
But I work outside the home, dh runs a business and we NEED help sometimes.
Most of the time we have a happy flow of my requests being met willingly,
because I don't bother them with it most of the time. And they do appreciate
all the clean up I do for them. But once in a while this "system" fails me,
or maybe I fail it.
And I get really, really cranky and feel like no one cares unless I get
cranky.
which I DON'T want to be.
So we held a meeting today to try and figure out some way to make sure
everyone's needs get met. I'm still not sure we've got much figured out, but
we all feel better having talked about it. :)
I know that chore lists suck. I will not resort to that lame system again. I
will not dictate how the house is kept unless I just simply do it. They live
here and have a right to decide these things too...and most of what they do
is WAY more important than cleaning.
But sometimes it all falls apart in chaos and I resort to "We are going to
get this disaster cleaned up right now, I'm going crazy!!"
They probably think I'm nuts (ok, I am) but some order helps me be a lot more
creative and fun. If it helps me be a better Mom, that's good for all of us.
This doesn't mean they have to keep the house the way I like it, that's my
job.
But if bringing dishes out or at least letting me know when food spills helps
me be sane, they should learn to think about that.
It's not an issue most days, but I'd like to find some way to avoid the
occasional meltdown. sigh.
Ren
"The sun is shining--the sun is shining. That is the magic. The flowers are
growing--the roots are stirring. That is the magic. Being alive is the
magic--being strong is the magic The magic is in me--the magic is in
me....It's in every one of us."
----Frances Hodgson Burnett
[email protected] writes:
<< We've lived happily under this "system" for years. But I'm finding that
I don't have the energy to do the amount of cleaning up after other
people that it would take for me to be comfortable, anymore. >>
I believe in this system theoretically, and most of the time it works fine
here.
I ask, they usually help.
But we had a couple of tough days and I lost it.
We had two extra kids stay over, kids that I really, really like and love
having over.
I made food for the kids and brought it to them, they stayed on video games
from afternoon to the next morning (finally falling asleep about 6am) which
is no problem.
They were pretty quiet while I slept and did their own thing.
The problem was when dishes kept stacking up all over the living room and the
only kids bringing them to the kitchen were our guests! I cleaned up after
everyone a few times, reminding them that I'd like their dishes brought out
to the kitchen so food wouldn't dry onto them. Their friends left. They
continued for the next two days doing pretty much nothing but video games. I
got a little pushy today.
There was food all over the floor, dishes still being left even though I'd
requested them to be brought out several times, blankets and pillows
everywhere, yogurt containers half eaten all over...I LOST it!
I pointed out how very inconsiderate they were being by expecting me to clean
up and not lift a finger. I told them how stressed out all the mess makes me
(NO, I can't be happy in total disasters, I've tried) and they needed to shut
the tv off and help me gain some sanity.
They did of course.
But it pissed me off that I didn't get help until I was totally stressed.
I am fine with them being focused on their friends/video games....I'm fine
with doing most of the housework.
But I work outside the home, dh runs a business and we NEED help sometimes.
Most of the time we have a happy flow of my requests being met willingly,
because I don't bother them with it most of the time. And they do appreciate
all the clean up I do for them. But once in a while this "system" fails me,
or maybe I fail it.
And I get really, really cranky and feel like no one cares unless I get
cranky.
which I DON'T want to be.
So we held a meeting today to try and figure out some way to make sure
everyone's needs get met. I'm still not sure we've got much figured out, but
we all feel better having talked about it. :)
I know that chore lists suck. I will not resort to that lame system again. I
will not dictate how the house is kept unless I just simply do it. They live
here and have a right to decide these things too...and most of what they do
is WAY more important than cleaning.
But sometimes it all falls apart in chaos and I resort to "We are going to
get this disaster cleaned up right now, I'm going crazy!!"
They probably think I'm nuts (ok, I am) but some order helps me be a lot more
creative and fun. If it helps me be a better Mom, that's good for all of us.
This doesn't mean they have to keep the house the way I like it, that's my
job.
But if bringing dishes out or at least letting me know when food spills helps
me be sane, they should learn to think about that.
It's not an issue most days, but I'd like to find some way to avoid the
occasional meltdown. sigh.
Ren
"The sun is shining--the sun is shining. That is the magic. The flowers are
growing--the roots are stirring. That is the magic. Being alive is the
magic--being strong is the magic The magic is in me--the magic is in
me....It's in every one of us."
----Frances Hodgson Burnett
robbin whachell
Ren (?),
Give a child a house with rooms that are full of chaos and mess and
rooms that are bright, open and spacious AND, I feel, 9 out of 10 they
will pick the CLEAN room. That is a natural response. That is why one
feels good when a house is in order and tidy. Albeit, mothers seem to
need that more than the rest of the family!
Children need to realize that living together requires a effort from
all members of the family. Yes I let my kids get the house in totally
disarray, but they are held to tidy it up (and not tomorrow either,
unless it is late). I can relate to your blowout as I have done the
same. There is a saturation point.
Children are children, they are human. If someone can get away with
someone else cleaning up after them, they will take it. I think it comes
down to consistency. I often find it "easier to clean up myself, but
have to realize that they need to know that they can do it too and be a
part of the cycle of life. The more consisten I am with asking them to
help the more I see them doing things on their own accord.
Keep the faith.
~ Robbin
-----Original Message-----
From: starsuncloud@... [mailto:starsuncloud@...]
Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2003 6:58 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] Intro.
In a message dated 3/4/03 3:06:04 PM Central Standard Time,
[email protected] writes:
<< We've lived happily under this "system" for years. But I'm finding
that
I don't have the energy to do the amount of cleaning up after other
people that it would take for me to be comfortable, anymore. >>
I believe in this system theoretically, and most of the time it works
fine
here.
I ask, they usually help.
But we had a couple of tough days and I lost it.
We had two extra kids stay over, kids that I really, really like and
love
having over.
I made food for the kids and brought it to them, they stayed on video
games
from afternoon to the next morning (finally falling asleep about 6am)
which
is no problem.
They were pretty quiet while I slept and did their own thing. The
problem was when dishes kept stacking up all over the living room and
the
only kids bringing them to the kitchen were our guests! I cleaned up
after
everyone a few times, reminding them that I'd like their dishes brought
out
to the kitchen so food wouldn't dry onto them. Their friends left. They
continued for the next two days doing pretty much nothing but video
games. I
got a little pushy today.
There was food all over the floor, dishes still being left even though
I'd
requested them to be brought out several times, blankets and pillows
everywhere, yogurt containers half eaten all over...I LOST it! I pointed
out how very inconsiderate they were being by expecting me to clean
up and not lift a finger. I told them how stressed out all the mess
makes me
(NO, I can't be happy in total disasters, I've tried) and they needed to
shut
the tv off and help me gain some sanity.
They did of course.
But it pissed me off that I didn't get help until I was totally
stressed. I am fine with them being focused on their friends/video
games....I'm fine
with doing most of the housework.
But I work outside the home, dh runs a business and we NEED help
sometimes.
Most of the time we have a happy flow of my requests being met
willingly,
because I don't bother them with it most of the time. And they do
appreciate
all the clean up I do for them. But once in a while this "system" fails
me,
or maybe I fail it.
And I get really, really cranky and feel like no one cares unless I get
cranky.
which I DON'T want to be.
So we held a meeting today to try and figure out some way to make sure
everyone's needs get met. I'm still not sure we've got much figured out,
but
we all feel better having talked about it. :)
I know that chore lists suck. I will not resort to that lame system
again. I
will not dictate how the house is kept unless I just simply do it. They
live
here and have a right to decide these things too...and most of what they
do
is WAY more important than cleaning.
But sometimes it all falls apart in chaos and I resort to "We are going
to
get this disaster cleaned up right now, I'm going crazy!!"
They probably think I'm nuts (ok, I am) but some order helps me be a lot
more
creative and fun. If it helps me be a better Mom, that's good for all of
us. This doesn't mean they have to keep the house the way I like it,
that's my
job.
But if bringing dishes out or at least letting me know when food spills
helps
me be sane, they should learn to think about that.
It's not an issue most days, but I'd like to find some way to avoid the
occasional meltdown. sigh.
Ren
"The sun is shining--the sun is shining. That is the magic. The
flowers are
growing--the roots are stirring. That is the magic. Being alive is the
magic--being strong is the magic The magic is in me--the magic is in
me....It's in every one of us."
----Frances Hodgson Burnett
~~~~ Don't forget! If you change topics, change the subject line! ~~~~
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Give a child a house with rooms that are full of chaos and mess and
rooms that are bright, open and spacious AND, I feel, 9 out of 10 they
will pick the CLEAN room. That is a natural response. That is why one
feels good when a house is in order and tidy. Albeit, mothers seem to
need that more than the rest of the family!
Children need to realize that living together requires a effort from
all members of the family. Yes I let my kids get the house in totally
disarray, but they are held to tidy it up (and not tomorrow either,
unless it is late). I can relate to your blowout as I have done the
same. There is a saturation point.
Children are children, they are human. If someone can get away with
someone else cleaning up after them, they will take it. I think it comes
down to consistency. I often find it "easier to clean up myself, but
have to realize that they need to know that they can do it too and be a
part of the cycle of life. The more consisten I am with asking them to
help the more I see them doing things on their own accord.
Keep the faith.
~ Robbin
-----Original Message-----
From: starsuncloud@... [mailto:starsuncloud@...]
Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2003 6:58 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] Intro.
In a message dated 3/4/03 3:06:04 PM Central Standard Time,
[email protected] writes:
<< We've lived happily under this "system" for years. But I'm finding
that
I don't have the energy to do the amount of cleaning up after other
people that it would take for me to be comfortable, anymore. >>
I believe in this system theoretically, and most of the time it works
fine
here.
I ask, they usually help.
But we had a couple of tough days and I lost it.
We had two extra kids stay over, kids that I really, really like and
love
having over.
I made food for the kids and brought it to them, they stayed on video
games
from afternoon to the next morning (finally falling asleep about 6am)
which
is no problem.
They were pretty quiet while I slept and did their own thing. The
problem was when dishes kept stacking up all over the living room and
the
only kids bringing them to the kitchen were our guests! I cleaned up
after
everyone a few times, reminding them that I'd like their dishes brought
out
to the kitchen so food wouldn't dry onto them. Their friends left. They
continued for the next two days doing pretty much nothing but video
games. I
got a little pushy today.
There was food all over the floor, dishes still being left even though
I'd
requested them to be brought out several times, blankets and pillows
everywhere, yogurt containers half eaten all over...I LOST it! I pointed
out how very inconsiderate they were being by expecting me to clean
up and not lift a finger. I told them how stressed out all the mess
makes me
(NO, I can't be happy in total disasters, I've tried) and they needed to
shut
the tv off and help me gain some sanity.
They did of course.
But it pissed me off that I didn't get help until I was totally
stressed. I am fine with them being focused on their friends/video
games....I'm fine
with doing most of the housework.
But I work outside the home, dh runs a business and we NEED help
sometimes.
Most of the time we have a happy flow of my requests being met
willingly,
because I don't bother them with it most of the time. And they do
appreciate
all the clean up I do for them. But once in a while this "system" fails
me,
or maybe I fail it.
And I get really, really cranky and feel like no one cares unless I get
cranky.
which I DON'T want to be.
So we held a meeting today to try and figure out some way to make sure
everyone's needs get met. I'm still not sure we've got much figured out,
but
we all feel better having talked about it. :)
I know that chore lists suck. I will not resort to that lame system
again. I
will not dictate how the house is kept unless I just simply do it. They
live
here and have a right to decide these things too...and most of what they
do
is WAY more important than cleaning.
But sometimes it all falls apart in chaos and I resort to "We are going
to
get this disaster cleaned up right now, I'm going crazy!!"
They probably think I'm nuts (ok, I am) but some order helps me be a lot
more
creative and fun. If it helps me be a better Mom, that's good for all of
us. This doesn't mean they have to keep the house the way I like it,
that's my
job.
But if bringing dishes out or at least letting me know when food spills
helps
me be sane, they should learn to think about that.
It's not an issue most days, but I'd like to find some way to avoid the
occasional meltdown. sigh.
Ren
"The sun is shining--the sun is shining. That is the magic. The
flowers are
growing--the roots are stirring. That is the magic. Being alive is the
magic--being strong is the magic The magic is in me--the magic is in
me....It's in every one of us."
----Frances Hodgson Burnett
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Deborah Lewis
***There was food all over the floor, dishes still being left even though
I'd
requested them to be brought out several times, blankets and pillows
everywhere, yogurt containers half eaten all over...I LOST it!***
The hard thing for some people to remember is that kids really don't see
"mess" when we see it. When they're busy and happy they're not looking
at the dishes or spilled food the same way we are.
I think what sometimes happens to parents is they start to make a
judgement about what the child is doing. We might look and say to
ourselves "he's just sitting there, he couldn't take two minutes and take
the dishes to the sink?" and THAT begins in some kind of twisted
magical way to become some version of "he's ignoring me, or he's trying
to make me mad, or he doesn't care about me."
What it really is though, is a comfortable child, happily doing what he
wants, oblivious to the "mess" that's freaking his mom out.
I think the responsibility is on us, as adults, to convey what we would
like them to do in the clearest, calmest way, before we're mad. We
sometimes think they should be able to sense our stress level going up
and that we shouldn't have to explain exactly what we want, they should
just be reading our cues, but that almost never works.
When you saw your first or second or third<g> request for help wasn't
reaching them maybe you could have stood in front of the action and said,
sorta friendly like, (while gripping a butchers knife<G> ok, maybe not)
"I'm sorry guys but I need five minutes of your time to get these dishes
taken care of, then I'll leave you alone." If you are right there,
where they HAVE to notice you (not just a background noise that fades
away after a few minutes) and you don't move until they are showing some
signs of life, you're request will register better.
If you want, I'll loan you Dylan's friend Aryel for a few days. I
actually said to her last Thursday, "if you clean one more thing I'm
taking you home!" My husband said I probably upset the balance of the
whole universe by saying those words to a child, so maybe that's what
happened at your house. Cosmic imbalance.
I'll give her the broom next time she comes over and you'll live happily
ever after. <g>
Deb L
I'd
requested them to be brought out several times, blankets and pillows
everywhere, yogurt containers half eaten all over...I LOST it!***
The hard thing for some people to remember is that kids really don't see
"mess" when we see it. When they're busy and happy they're not looking
at the dishes or spilled food the same way we are.
I think what sometimes happens to parents is they start to make a
judgement about what the child is doing. We might look and say to
ourselves "he's just sitting there, he couldn't take two minutes and take
the dishes to the sink?" and THAT begins in some kind of twisted
magical way to become some version of "he's ignoring me, or he's trying
to make me mad, or he doesn't care about me."
What it really is though, is a comfortable child, happily doing what he
wants, oblivious to the "mess" that's freaking his mom out.
I think the responsibility is on us, as adults, to convey what we would
like them to do in the clearest, calmest way, before we're mad. We
sometimes think they should be able to sense our stress level going up
and that we shouldn't have to explain exactly what we want, they should
just be reading our cues, but that almost never works.
When you saw your first or second or third<g> request for help wasn't
reaching them maybe you could have stood in front of the action and said,
sorta friendly like, (while gripping a butchers knife<G> ok, maybe not)
"I'm sorry guys but I need five minutes of your time to get these dishes
taken care of, then I'll leave you alone." If you are right there,
where they HAVE to notice you (not just a background noise that fades
away after a few minutes) and you don't move until they are showing some
signs of life, you're request will register better.
If you want, I'll loan you Dylan's friend Aryel for a few days. I
actually said to her last Thursday, "if you clean one more thing I'm
taking you home!" My husband said I probably upset the balance of the
whole universe by saying those words to a child, so maybe that's what
happened at your house. Cosmic imbalance.
I'll give her the broom next time she comes over and you'll live happily
ever after. <g>
Deb L
[email protected]
In a message dated 3/4/03 7:15:04 PM Central Standard Time,
[email protected] writes:
<< The more consisten I am with asking them to
help the more I see them doing things on their own accord. >>
I have found that the more I don't nag, the more I just joyfully do it, the
more they joyfully join in. MOST of the time.
We all have our bad weeks, and this week was mine.
If I'm not joyfully tackling housework, why would they want to?
If I'm happily keeping house, they naturally want to join me.
Sierra loves scouring out sinks and asks to do it regularly. My struggle is
in accepting the forms of help they give joyfully and not worrying about the
parts they don't like to do.
If scrubbing the sinks makes her happy, great! I should joyfully clean up her
room, something she does not like to do....
She's only five btw.
Trevor is 13 and most always VERY helpful. Thing is, he wasn't the last three
days. He was really, really into the video games. BUT, if I stand back (now
that I'm calm) I have to admit he's the neatest teenager I know. His room is
very neat and clean and his bed made most every day. And I have nothing to do
with it!!
Cool.
Jared is very , very NOT into any kind of housework, so I've caught myself
nagging him a little more because the others tend to do more.
But he's my dreamer, my artist. He needs lots of time to just think and be
spacey.
Cleaning is not a priority in his life right now, I just need to honor that.
Ren
"The sun is shining--the sun is shining. That is the magic. The flowers are
growing--the roots are stirring. That is the magic. Being alive is the
magic--being strong is the magic The magic is in me--the magic is in
me....It's in every one of us."
----Frances Hodgson Burnett
[email protected] writes:
<< The more consisten I am with asking them to
help the more I see them doing things on their own accord. >>
I have found that the more I don't nag, the more I just joyfully do it, the
more they joyfully join in. MOST of the time.
We all have our bad weeks, and this week was mine.
If I'm not joyfully tackling housework, why would they want to?
If I'm happily keeping house, they naturally want to join me.
Sierra loves scouring out sinks and asks to do it regularly. My struggle is
in accepting the forms of help they give joyfully and not worrying about the
parts they don't like to do.
If scrubbing the sinks makes her happy, great! I should joyfully clean up her
room, something she does not like to do....
She's only five btw.
Trevor is 13 and most always VERY helpful. Thing is, he wasn't the last three
days. He was really, really into the video games. BUT, if I stand back (now
that I'm calm) I have to admit he's the neatest teenager I know. His room is
very neat and clean and his bed made most every day. And I have nothing to do
with it!!
Cool.
Jared is very , very NOT into any kind of housework, so I've caught myself
nagging him a little more because the others tend to do more.
But he's my dreamer, my artist. He needs lots of time to just think and be
spacey.
Cleaning is not a priority in his life right now, I just need to honor that.
Ren
"The sun is shining--the sun is shining. That is the magic. The flowers are
growing--the roots are stirring. That is the magic. Being alive is the
magic--being strong is the magic The magic is in me--the magic is in
me....It's in every one of us."
----Frances Hodgson Burnett
[email protected]
In a message dated 3/4/03 8:15:10 PM Eastern Standard Time,
Robbin@... writes:
the choice to also say no.
Pam G.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Robbin@... writes:
> Children are children, they are human. If someone can get away withYou use the words can and asking them but it is only a choice if they have
> someone else cleaning up after them, they will take it. I think it comes
> down to consistency. I often find it "easier to clean up myself, but
> have to realize that they need to know that they can do it too and be a
> part of the cycle of life. The more consisten I am with asking them to
> help the more I see them doing things on their own accord.
>
>
the choice to also say no.
Pam G.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Have a Nice Day!
LOL
My husband gets neurotic about things more than I do. I've started letting him know each day what the kids have been up to to help me out. Too often he assumes that they made such and such a mess (because thats what he sees) and then he doesn't see the other area of the house that they cleaned or the dishes they put away, or the toilet they scrubbed.
It helps *me* to think of them that way too.
Kristen
My husband gets neurotic about things more than I do. I've started letting him know each day what the kids have been up to to help me out. Too often he assumes that they made such and such a mess (because thats what he sees) and then he doesn't see the other area of the house that they cleaned or the dishes they put away, or the toilet they scrubbed.
It helps *me* to think of them that way too.
Kristen
----- Original Message -----
From: starsuncloud@...
To: [email protected]
Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2003 8:47 PM
Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] Intro.
In a message dated 3/4/03 7:15:04 PM Central Standard Time,
[email protected] writes:
<< The more consisten I am with asking them to
help the more I see them doing things on their own accord. >>
I have found that the more I don't nag, the more I just joyfully do it, the
more they joyfully join in. MOST of the time.
We all have our bad weeks, and this week was mine.
If I'm not joyfully tackling housework, why would they want to?
If I'm happily keeping house, they naturally want to join me.
Sierra loves scouring out sinks and asks to do it regularly. My struggle is
in accepting the forms of help they give joyfully and not worrying about the
parts they don't like to do.
If scrubbing the sinks makes her happy, great! I should joyfully clean up her
room, something she does not like to do....
She's only five btw.
Trevor is 13 and most always VERY helpful. Thing is, he wasn't the last three
days. He was really, really into the video games. BUT, if I stand back (now
that I'm calm) I have to admit he's the neatest teenager I know. His room is
very neat and clean and his bed made most every day. And I have nothing to do
with it!!
Cool.
Jared is very , very NOT into any kind of housework, so I've caught myself
nagging him a little more because the others tend to do more.
But he's my dreamer, my artist. He needs lots of time to just think and be
spacey.
Cleaning is not a priority in his life right now, I just need to honor that.
Ren
"The sun is shining--the sun is shining. That is the magic. The flowers are
growing--the roots are stirring. That is the magic. Being alive is the
magic--being strong is the magic The magic is in me--the magic is in
me....It's in every one of us."
----Frances Hodgson Burnett
~~~~ Don't forget! If you change topics, change the subject line! ~~~~
If you have questions, concerns or problems with this list, please email the moderator, Joyce Fetteroll (fetteroll@...), or the list owner, Helen Hegener (HEM-Editor@...).
To unsubscribe from this group, click on the following link or address an email to:
[email protected]
Visit the Unschooling website: http://www.unschooling.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 3/4/03 8:50:27 PM Eastern Standard Time,
starsuncloud@... writes:
Pam G.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
starsuncloud@... writes:
> I just need to honor that.I love that statement Ren.
>
>
Pam G.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 3/4/03 8:43:50 PM Central Standard Time,
[email protected] writes:
<< I think what sometimes happens to parents is they start to make a
judgement about what the child is doing. We might look and say to
ourselves "he's just sitting there, he couldn't take two minutes and take
the dishes to the sink?" and THAT begins in some kind of twisted
magical way to become some version of "he's ignoring me, or he's trying
to make me mad, or he doesn't care about me." >>
I think this is very true.
And not only with a parent/child relationship, but any relationship in life.
As soon as we take behavior and read a message into it, we usually warp what
is truly being said or not said.
I try to remember this, but it takes a lot of retraining......and patience,
which I don't come by naturally. :)
Ren
"The sun is shining--the sun is shining. That is the magic. The flowers are
growing--the roots are stirring. That is the magic. Being alive is the
magic--being strong is the magic The magic is in me--the magic is in
me....It's in every one of us."
----Frances Hodgson Burnett
[email protected] writes:
<< I think what sometimes happens to parents is they start to make a
judgement about what the child is doing. We might look and say to
ourselves "he's just sitting there, he couldn't take two minutes and take
the dishes to the sink?" and THAT begins in some kind of twisted
magical way to become some version of "he's ignoring me, or he's trying
to make me mad, or he doesn't care about me." >>
I think this is very true.
And not only with a parent/child relationship, but any relationship in life.
As soon as we take behavior and read a message into it, we usually warp what
is truly being said or not said.
I try to remember this, but it takes a lot of retraining......and patience,
which I don't come by naturally. :)
Ren
"The sun is shining--the sun is shining. That is the magic. The flowers are
growing--the roots are stirring. That is the magic. Being alive is the
magic--being strong is the magic The magic is in me--the magic is in
me....It's in every one of us."
----Frances Hodgson Burnett
mummyone24
--- In [email protected], starsuncloud@c... wrote:
<<It's not an issue most days, but I'd like to find some way to avoid
the occasional meltdown. sigh.>>
Ren, what would have happened if you went to the children, had them
excuse themselves from their guests and the video games, and point
blank stated what you would like? Would they have gotten the idea
then that you wanted and needed some help?
I know sometimes if I ask something while the kids are busy, even if
for most people they don't look busy, they can answer but not really
get what I'm saying. If I take a minute to go to them, have them look
at me and really hear what I'm saying, then it sinks in. Not sure if
you did that or not.
I had a meltdown of some sorts the other night, although I was proud
of the way I handled it. I just couldn't take it anymore with how the
playroom looked. I've been doing so well with not having clean up
time anymore. But I guess with the kitchen in disarray, (Joe got sick
half way through the paint job) the things on the floor of the
playroom for a week just got to be too much. I was able to reasonably
explain my discomfort and ask for some clean up. It was all cleaned
up in no time. Sierra even got Alyssa to help clean up the bedroom by
making it a time game. It was even nicer that I didn't ask for the
bedrooms to be cleaned. Of course now we've decided to incorporate
the dogs in the whole house, which makes the kids really clean up the
floor now! I think there may have been an ulterior motive for me
letting the dogs out. <beg>
Mary B
Heidi Wordhouse-Dykema
>Really? That seems an awfully strange assumption to make.
>Children are children, they are human. If someone can get away with
>someone else cleaning up after them, they will take it.
I guess I can't see keeping *my* house the way *I* like it as an example of
my being taken advantage of by my children. Yes, even when they mess it up.
Which leads to another question.
Is it possible to be 'taken advantage of' by one's own children in an
unschooling family?
What would that look like?
I can't for the life of me think what that would look like because at the
first feelings of it, we'd start talking about it and trying to figure out
why the person (adult or child) felt that way and how that feeling came
about, etc.
HeidiWD - musing philosophically.
[email protected]
In a message dated 3/5/03 3:35:14 AM, heidi@... writes:
<< Which leads to another question.
Is it possible to be 'taken advantage of' by one's own children in an
unschooling family?
What would that look like? >>
That is an excellend question.
Am I taking advantage of my family when I come in the house and do what I
want to do? Am I taking advantage of them when I just assume that if I rent
a movie one of them has expressed interest in that he'll probably sit and
watch it with me? When I expect my husband will go to Costco when the
shopping list is long enough, is that me just assuming?
If we're all smiling and nice to each other through all that assumption,
maybe we're assuming correctly that the others LIKE us and will help us out,
and that of course we'll help them too.
Another similar philosophical question came up again last weekend. Cheating.
If a kid's involved in tests and homework and grades and science fairs, it's
possible to cheat.
If a kid is only involved in learning for the sake of learning, there is no
such thing as cheating.
Unschoolers can't cheat, in unschooling, because getting help makes more
sense than not getting help. Looking in books IS the way to learn.
I see them as related items, but I doubt that many brand-new-to-unschooling
readers will see the connection.
Sandra
<< Which leads to another question.
Is it possible to be 'taken advantage of' by one's own children in an
unschooling family?
What would that look like? >>
That is an excellend question.
Am I taking advantage of my family when I come in the house and do what I
want to do? Am I taking advantage of them when I just assume that if I rent
a movie one of them has expressed interest in that he'll probably sit and
watch it with me? When I expect my husband will go to Costco when the
shopping list is long enough, is that me just assuming?
If we're all smiling and nice to each other through all that assumption,
maybe we're assuming correctly that the others LIKE us and will help us out,
and that of course we'll help them too.
Another similar philosophical question came up again last weekend. Cheating.
If a kid's involved in tests and homework and grades and science fairs, it's
possible to cheat.
If a kid is only involved in learning for the sake of learning, there is no
such thing as cheating.
Unschoolers can't cheat, in unschooling, because getting help makes more
sense than not getting help. Looking in books IS the way to learn.
I see them as related items, but I doubt that many brand-new-to-unschooling
readers will see the connection.
Sandra
Mary Bianco
>From: Heidi Wordhouse-Dykema <heidi@...><<Which leads to another question.
Is it possible to be 'taken advantage of' by one's own children in an
unschooling family?
What would that look like?>>
This is one thing my husband seems so afraid of. He has a hard time with the
whole philosophy of unschooling and letting go of his old mentality
concerning "raising" children. Most of the time he goes along with what I
suggest. Every once in a while, he'll come out with thinking out loud to me
that maybe the kids will end up walking all over us. Or he might suggest
some kind of punishment like taking something away from them. There are
times in the past when he's actually stated that to one child who upset him.
He never followed through and we've talked about what that does. Now his
questions about it all are directed at me. He was raised in a strict
household to one extent, he got spanked with spoons and belts. Then on the
other hand, his parents were never there for him. Never attended one
baseball game he played in. How sad. He would go and come back to his games
all alone. He was also a latch key kid and ended up heavy in drugs and
alcohol. This whole unrestricted attitude is hard sometimes for him to
understand. But he's starting to see we have great kids. They don't take
advantage of us at all. We haven't been unschooling that long, but even my
oldest at 17 doesn't walk all over us. It's the way you talk to your
children and what they see and hear that matters. Does Tara clean the house
or do the laundry? Well yeah, sometimes but most of the time it's my job. I
have no problem with that. She has a lot on her plate. She cooks for herself
and sometimes does laundry and keeps her room spotless. All by her own
accord and standards. She watches and plays with the kids and takes care of
the litter box. She does dishes. And anything I ask of her is done with no
problems. Now the younger ones don't do as much, but I really never have a
problem with them doing something I ask. They will ask if it can wait until
later sometimes. That's never a problem here. The little one of course says
no all the time so I do what I asked of her and then just keep trying!
I don't think respecting our children turns them into self centered adults.
Mary B
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[email protected]
In a message dated 3/5/03 9:56:18 AM, SandraDodd@... writes:
<< That is an excellend question. >>
And I am an excellent speller.
Sometimes.
And typist.
Usually.
Maybe my hands have a cold.
Sandra
<< That is an excellend question. >>
And I am an excellent speller.
Sometimes.
And typist.
Usually.
Maybe my hands have a cold.
Sandra
[email protected]
In a message dated 3/5/03 9:58:30 AM, mummyone24@... writes:
<< I don't think respecting our children turns them into self centered
adults. >>
I don't either. With apologies to those who might've seen this, and as an
offering to those who haven't, here's a recent HEM column:
How to Raise a Respected Child
Holly says the ice cream we have in the freezer is too sweet. She had
chocolate milk last night and said there was too much chocolate in it, so she
divided it and made chocolate milk for someone else with half of it. She
usually prefers plain milk.
Plain milk tastes WAY better if it's your choice than if does when it's plain
because someone else wouldn't let you put chocolate in it.
Without free choice, how can a person choose what is plain and good?
Unschooling begins with a choice between going to school or not. How many
millions of people are never given that choice?
Next is the choice between "doing school-work" or not. Sometimes new
unschooling parents are hoping that holding their breath and waiting might
lead to children studying a curriculum, just as the
mathematically-allegorical monkeys might type Hamlet.
In the success-bearing phase, unschoolers stop looking for Hamlet or even for
English history. But knowing that Ian Holm, who plays Bilbo, plays Polonius
with Glenn Close in a Mel Gibson movie causes it to be worth a look for lots
of people. And he was Fluellen in Kenneth Brannagh's Henry V, too. If they
watch Hamlet or Henry V because of Lord of the Rings, is that like chocolate
milk, or like plain milk? If they don't watch Hamlet yet, or ever, that's
fine too.
The most peaceful unschooling families have loosed the ropes that held
learning at the dock. They have developed faith in the idea that humans learn
best in freedom.
Perhaps it's just a pretty truism, about unschooling families. Maybe it is as
real as granite. Here are some other patterns for your consideration, though:
Unschooling families with young children often fear for the neighbors to
"test them" and find them wild or "behind." Unschooling families with older
children politely try to hide their smugness at the positive responses of
others to their older unschoolers. How does that change come about?
There are traditional dialogs adults have with stranger-children. They ask
what school they go to. They ask whether the child likes his teacher, and
what his favorite subject is. My children haven't gotten past the first two
questions, because if "I don't go to school" doesn't stump the interviewer,
"I don't have a teacher" usually does. And so an adult who succeeds in having
a conversation with an unschooled child finds himself speaking with a person,
and not "a student," not "a child."
For some, this is their first real conversation with a person who isn't grown
to adulthood. My kids are used to being the first, in that way. They're used
to the look in people's eyes when they realize that here is a child who has
something to talk about and who will confidently and guilelessly speak.
How does that confidence arise?
I really believe unschooling works best when parents trust a child's
personhood, his intelligence, his instincts, his potential to be mature and
calm. Take any of that away, and the child becomes smaller and powerless to
some degree.
Give them power and respect, and they become respected and powerful.
Is it just that simple? That a parent can GIVE a child power and respect? Can
a parent give a child freedom?
With the freedom to choose what they eat, my children have bypassed sweets
more times than I could have counted, and eaten hearty, real food. I saw
those choices working before they were old enough to go to school, or not to
go to school. They had all the food they wanted.
With the freedom to choose to stay up or to go to bed, I saw toddlers ask to
go to bed because they were tired, and then saw them go to sleep smiling, and
wake up happy. They had all the waking they wanted, and all the sleep they
wanted, instead of feeling deprived of either.
Of my childhood, I remember tears over pancakes. EAT THEM NOW. I didn't eat
them again for fifteen years, after that forced-pancake day. Was that good
for nutrition? Discipline? Love? Respect? No, it was destructive. I remember
being forced at school and at home to drink milk. Was one glass enough? Then
is half a glass enough? Will a child drink not one drop more than he HAS to?
Is milk better than peace?
For many children, information is treated like cold pancakes. Skills are
forced like too-warm milk.
What if hot pancakes, served with a smile, would taste really good with milk?
What magic happens when it's fully acceptable for a child to say "No thanks"
to hot pancakes?
Neediness expresses itself differently with different kids. Abundance
expresses itself similarly in all.
Neediness creates various interpersonal problems, health difficulties,
psychological stress and sorrow. Chronic neediness becomes a vacuum that
cannot be filled.
Abundance in one person provides benefits for others. A child with all the
trust he needs can trust others. A child with all the time he needs can share
that time with others. One who has freedom won't begrudge freedom in others.
Most people have never known a kid who has experienced true abundance. Most
have never met a child who had been given a full measure of respect, so that
the child was respected (already) and full of respect (respectful). It is
easy to respect someone who has that respect already, and who has so much
that he can spread it around to others.
An abundance of love, of confidence, of self and of freedom will create a
flow of respect from and toward a person.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sandra Dodd's children are Holly (11), Marty (13) and Kirby (16). They have
never been to school, and they eventually came to amaze the neighbors. Their
abundance is shared with others, usually in Albuquerque, New Mexico.
http://sandradodd.com/respect
<< I don't think respecting our children turns them into self centered
adults. >>
I don't either. With apologies to those who might've seen this, and as an
offering to those who haven't, here's a recent HEM column:
How to Raise a Respected Child
Holly says the ice cream we have in the freezer is too sweet. She had
chocolate milk last night and said there was too much chocolate in it, so she
divided it and made chocolate milk for someone else with half of it. She
usually prefers plain milk.
Plain milk tastes WAY better if it's your choice than if does when it's plain
because someone else wouldn't let you put chocolate in it.
Without free choice, how can a person choose what is plain and good?
Unschooling begins with a choice between going to school or not. How many
millions of people are never given that choice?
Next is the choice between "doing school-work" or not. Sometimes new
unschooling parents are hoping that holding their breath and waiting might
lead to children studying a curriculum, just as the
mathematically-allegorical monkeys might type Hamlet.
In the success-bearing phase, unschoolers stop looking for Hamlet or even for
English history. But knowing that Ian Holm, who plays Bilbo, plays Polonius
with Glenn Close in a Mel Gibson movie causes it to be worth a look for lots
of people. And he was Fluellen in Kenneth Brannagh's Henry V, too. If they
watch Hamlet or Henry V because of Lord of the Rings, is that like chocolate
milk, or like plain milk? If they don't watch Hamlet yet, or ever, that's
fine too.
The most peaceful unschooling families have loosed the ropes that held
learning at the dock. They have developed faith in the idea that humans learn
best in freedom.
Perhaps it's just a pretty truism, about unschooling families. Maybe it is as
real as granite. Here are some other patterns for your consideration, though:
Unschooling families with young children often fear for the neighbors to
"test them" and find them wild or "behind." Unschooling families with older
children politely try to hide their smugness at the positive responses of
others to their older unschoolers. How does that change come about?
There are traditional dialogs adults have with stranger-children. They ask
what school they go to. They ask whether the child likes his teacher, and
what his favorite subject is. My children haven't gotten past the first two
questions, because if "I don't go to school" doesn't stump the interviewer,
"I don't have a teacher" usually does. And so an adult who succeeds in having
a conversation with an unschooled child finds himself speaking with a person,
and not "a student," not "a child."
For some, this is their first real conversation with a person who isn't grown
to adulthood. My kids are used to being the first, in that way. They're used
to the look in people's eyes when they realize that here is a child who has
something to talk about and who will confidently and guilelessly speak.
How does that confidence arise?
I really believe unschooling works best when parents trust a child's
personhood, his intelligence, his instincts, his potential to be mature and
calm. Take any of that away, and the child becomes smaller and powerless to
some degree.
Give them power and respect, and they become respected and powerful.
Is it just that simple? That a parent can GIVE a child power and respect? Can
a parent give a child freedom?
With the freedom to choose what they eat, my children have bypassed sweets
more times than I could have counted, and eaten hearty, real food. I saw
those choices working before they were old enough to go to school, or not to
go to school. They had all the food they wanted.
With the freedom to choose to stay up or to go to bed, I saw toddlers ask to
go to bed because they were tired, and then saw them go to sleep smiling, and
wake up happy. They had all the waking they wanted, and all the sleep they
wanted, instead of feeling deprived of either.
Of my childhood, I remember tears over pancakes. EAT THEM NOW. I didn't eat
them again for fifteen years, after that forced-pancake day. Was that good
for nutrition? Discipline? Love? Respect? No, it was destructive. I remember
being forced at school and at home to drink milk. Was one glass enough? Then
is half a glass enough? Will a child drink not one drop more than he HAS to?
Is milk better than peace?
For many children, information is treated like cold pancakes. Skills are
forced like too-warm milk.
What if hot pancakes, served with a smile, would taste really good with milk?
What magic happens when it's fully acceptable for a child to say "No thanks"
to hot pancakes?
Neediness expresses itself differently with different kids. Abundance
expresses itself similarly in all.
Neediness creates various interpersonal problems, health difficulties,
psychological stress and sorrow. Chronic neediness becomes a vacuum that
cannot be filled.
Abundance in one person provides benefits for others. A child with all the
trust he needs can trust others. A child with all the time he needs can share
that time with others. One who has freedom won't begrudge freedom in others.
Most people have never known a kid who has experienced true abundance. Most
have never met a child who had been given a full measure of respect, so that
the child was respected (already) and full of respect (respectful). It is
easy to respect someone who has that respect already, and who has so much
that he can spread it around to others.
An abundance of love, of confidence, of self and of freedom will create a
flow of respect from and toward a person.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sandra Dodd's children are Holly (11), Marty (13) and Kirby (16). They have
never been to school, and they eventually came to amaze the neighbors. Their
abundance is shared with others, usually in Albuquerque, New Mexico.
http://sandradodd.com/respect
Have a Nice Day!
>>>I don't think respecting our children turns them into self centered adults.<<<This really is the crux of the whole thing. When you put it like that, I don't see how *anyone* can argue with it. I might have to try that on some of the naysayers I come across.
Kristen
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 3/5/03 11:33:00 AM Central Standard Time,
[email protected] writes:
<< Maybe what we need is the same kind of
email list encouragement/reminders and a system - that is more in tune
with being respectful of the so-called junk which is really somebody's
"stuff." I know I could use encouragement and some sort of system to
get me moving. >>
I have found the perfect solution!!
An angel by the name of Aimee Streeter started a column in our local
newspaper that is helping me dig myself out one baby step at a time.
No flylady emails, no constant fuss, just one project at a time that helps me
gain my sanity back.
The first month I spent on just the kitchen, one project per week.
After a year, she promises a fairly organized, enjoyable home.
I believe her.
If you want to see all the projects up until now, the weekly "assignments"
are at pensacolanewsjournal.com
I can do the projects as it is convenient for me, skip a week if I need to ,
but overall I've found that it's small enough steps I don't feel overwhelmed
and the good feeling I get helps me maintain the little places I've mucked
out.
I LOVE it!!
Ren
"The sun is shining--the sun is shining. That is the magic. The flowers are
growing--the roots are stirring. That is the magic. Being alive is the
magic--being strong is the magic The magic is in me--the magic is in
me....It's in every one of us."
----Frances Hodgson Burnett
[email protected] writes:
<< Maybe what we need is the same kind of
email list encouragement/reminders and a system - that is more in tune
with being respectful of the so-called junk which is really somebody's
"stuff." I know I could use encouragement and some sort of system to
get me moving. >>
I have found the perfect solution!!
An angel by the name of Aimee Streeter started a column in our local
newspaper that is helping me dig myself out one baby step at a time.
No flylady emails, no constant fuss, just one project at a time that helps me
gain my sanity back.
The first month I spent on just the kitchen, one project per week.
After a year, she promises a fairly organized, enjoyable home.
I believe her.
If you want to see all the projects up until now, the weekly "assignments"
are at pensacolanewsjournal.com
I can do the projects as it is convenient for me, skip a week if I need to ,
but overall I've found that it's small enough steps I don't feel overwhelmed
and the good feeling I get helps me maintain the little places I've mucked
out.
I LOVE it!!
Ren
"The sun is shining--the sun is shining. That is the magic. The flowers are
growing--the roots are stirring. That is the magic. Being alive is the
magic--being strong is the magic The magic is in me--the magic is in
me....It's in every one of us."
----Frances Hodgson Burnett