Organization
Pat Cald...
I have another question for everyone. In my observation of adults, and through my own journey to grow-up (as an adult) I see that being organized is a learned skill. I realize some people are more naturally organized and this will come more easily to them, however if being organized is a desired skill, and I feel it is, then everyone will need to make an effort to learn the skill at some point. So this is what I am struggling with, I thought I would have my girls tell me what they want to do each day and I would write it down as their to-do list, or they could write it down. I would ask about when they thought they would do x or y and write that down too. The next day, I would go over whether they did what they wanted or not and continue the process. To do or not to do the things on their list is not the point, giving thought to the day and seeing what was done or not done the next day can be a learning experience. My 10 yo dd (who likes a little structure) enjoys the process. My 12 yo dd doesn't want any part of it. I see my options as explaining the reason for doing what we are doing and asking if that is a good reason and hopefully getting some cooperation or just letting it drop with the older one and letting her make the long journey on her own with all its inherent difficulties. Ps children learn to be organized to succeed at school (I know many don't). Without the need to be organized at home, this skill may be under developed by the time it is needed for college or a job. What do you all do to help develop organization skills?
Pat
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Pat
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Leslie Moyer
+ -----Original Message-----
+ From: Pat Cald... [mailto:homeschoolmd@...]
+
+ I have another question for everyone. In my observation of
+ adults, and through my own journey to grow-up (as an adult) I see
+ that being organized is a learned skill.
Pat,
It's one thing to say "being organized is an important skill" and another
thing to say "you must be organized my way and be accountable to me".
Organization very definitely has its own inherent/intrinsic rewards....when
it becomes important to your children, they'll either let you know or figure
it out themselves. I don't think it is necessary to devise systems *for*
them.
Most of us went to public school, right? And we have widely varying degrees
of "organization skills", too, right? I don't think school helps anyone
become more organized....it certainly didn't help me. I really think that a
BIG part of one's ability to be organized is be innate, not learned. I
don't even know if organization can be learned....maybe, but I've been
trying for years and I'm not getting much closer to my ideals.
One way you could help your girls is to show them in your life and in theirs
where organization is helpful....or where you have challenges and why. Get
them involved in whatever organizing you do--pay bills, sort mail, plan
social activities, plan meals, shop, sew, cook, paint the house, build a
deck, plant a garden--whatever. If *you* make a to-do list every day and
allow them to be a part of *your* organizing, they will see how you benefit.
My kids are responsible for all their own activities.....gathering their
materials for Scouts, signing up for camp and classes, making social
arrangements, even reminding me of what time and day their activities are.
(I am *very* disorganized with this sort of thing--they've HAD to be
organized because I am NOT.....I keep a calendar, but get distracted during
the day and forget things....I do OK with morning activities, but by
evening, I'm lost again! This hasn't always been a problem for me, but has
been getting worse the last few years!) If my kids are not organized, the
consequences are that they don't get to do that activity/event. It's not
contrived....it's just a fact. They also have several regular "chores"
around the house that need to be done and most all of them have direct
consequences to them if they are not organized enough to get them done.
(They do their own laundry--no clean clothes, feed their pets--or they die,
take turns unloading the dishwasher--or your sibling, whose turn it is
tomorrow, nags you, clean their newly-pierced ears--or they close, take the
new puppy out to pee--or he messes in their bedrooms, etc.)
They're part of my daily life--they know what tools I use to stay organized
and what happens when I get disorganized. They are very organized about
whatever's important to them. I know they *can* be organized if they want
to....if it is important enough to them. They're not organized about
*everything* in their lives, but they are a lot more responsible and
organized than most kids their age...and, in fact, all 3 of them are
generally more organized than I am. They also have gone to work with their
dad from time to time and have visited his office frequently....they see how
PRISTINE his desk is (and how SLOPPY my home desk is!) He is, luckily, very
organized at home, too.
Because organizing is a challenge for me, we do talk semi-regularly about
*different* ways to do it. We talk about whatever their organizing
challenges are and discuss different ways they might improve it. We also
discuss MY organizing challenges and different ways we can improve
it....since almost every time I'm disorganized, their activities suffer,
too. In our house, it hasn't been something we've discussed, implemented a
solution, and never had to deal with again....it's very much an ongoing
process!
If you think this is an important skill to learn, you can discuss that with
your children and explain your reasoning. You can ask them what they think;
ask them how *they* organize things in their life currently--what works for
them and what doesn't. You can tell them that you will be happy to help
them figure out what works for *them* so that things will be easier in their
lives.
Pat, I get the idea that you're a very organized person. Setting goals,
making to-do lists and checking things off that list are probably pretty
important to you. But people can be organized in different ways....and even
disorganized people can be successful. The most successful pay someone ELSE
to organize things for them! ;-)
Ok, now I have to wrap up--Survivor is on. I know because it's on my
calendar.... :-)
--Leslie Moyer / Oklahoma
+ From: Pat Cald... [mailto:homeschoolmd@...]
+
+ I have another question for everyone. In my observation of
+ adults, and through my own journey to grow-up (as an adult) I see
+ that being organized is a learned skill.
Pat,
It's one thing to say "being organized is an important skill" and another
thing to say "you must be organized my way and be accountable to me".
Organization very definitely has its own inherent/intrinsic rewards....when
it becomes important to your children, they'll either let you know or figure
it out themselves. I don't think it is necessary to devise systems *for*
them.
Most of us went to public school, right? And we have widely varying degrees
of "organization skills", too, right? I don't think school helps anyone
become more organized....it certainly didn't help me. I really think that a
BIG part of one's ability to be organized is be innate, not learned. I
don't even know if organization can be learned....maybe, but I've been
trying for years and I'm not getting much closer to my ideals.
One way you could help your girls is to show them in your life and in theirs
where organization is helpful....or where you have challenges and why. Get
them involved in whatever organizing you do--pay bills, sort mail, plan
social activities, plan meals, shop, sew, cook, paint the house, build a
deck, plant a garden--whatever. If *you* make a to-do list every day and
allow them to be a part of *your* organizing, they will see how you benefit.
My kids are responsible for all their own activities.....gathering their
materials for Scouts, signing up for camp and classes, making social
arrangements, even reminding me of what time and day their activities are.
(I am *very* disorganized with this sort of thing--they've HAD to be
organized because I am NOT.....I keep a calendar, but get distracted during
the day and forget things....I do OK with morning activities, but by
evening, I'm lost again! This hasn't always been a problem for me, but has
been getting worse the last few years!) If my kids are not organized, the
consequences are that they don't get to do that activity/event. It's not
contrived....it's just a fact. They also have several regular "chores"
around the house that need to be done and most all of them have direct
consequences to them if they are not organized enough to get them done.
(They do their own laundry--no clean clothes, feed their pets--or they die,
take turns unloading the dishwasher--or your sibling, whose turn it is
tomorrow, nags you, clean their newly-pierced ears--or they close, take the
new puppy out to pee--or he messes in their bedrooms, etc.)
They're part of my daily life--they know what tools I use to stay organized
and what happens when I get disorganized. They are very organized about
whatever's important to them. I know they *can* be organized if they want
to....if it is important enough to them. They're not organized about
*everything* in their lives, but they are a lot more responsible and
organized than most kids their age...and, in fact, all 3 of them are
generally more organized than I am. They also have gone to work with their
dad from time to time and have visited his office frequently....they see how
PRISTINE his desk is (and how SLOPPY my home desk is!) He is, luckily, very
organized at home, too.
Because organizing is a challenge for me, we do talk semi-regularly about
*different* ways to do it. We talk about whatever their organizing
challenges are and discuss different ways they might improve it. We also
discuss MY organizing challenges and different ways we can improve
it....since almost every time I'm disorganized, their activities suffer,
too. In our house, it hasn't been something we've discussed, implemented a
solution, and never had to deal with again....it's very much an ongoing
process!
If you think this is an important skill to learn, you can discuss that with
your children and explain your reasoning. You can ask them what they think;
ask them how *they* organize things in their life currently--what works for
them and what doesn't. You can tell them that you will be happy to help
them figure out what works for *them* so that things will be easier in their
lives.
Pat, I get the idea that you're a very organized person. Setting goals,
making to-do lists and checking things off that list are probably pretty
important to you. But people can be organized in different ways....and even
disorganized people can be successful. The most successful pay someone ELSE
to organize things for them! ;-)
Ok, now I have to wrap up--Survivor is on. I know because it's on my
calendar.... :-)
--Leslie Moyer / Oklahoma
Pat Cald...
Leslie, you've given me a lot to think about. You are right, I like being organized and productive. Unfortunately, my being organized has allowed my children and husband to not need to be. My husband conveniently forgets what day garbage day is, when the car oil needs to be changed, furnace filter needs to be cleaned etc. I on the other hand can't seem to let things go if they need to be done. I've tried letting the garbage pile up or the car maintenance slip a little but then when it goes too long, I give in and take care of it. I guess I've caused a bit of a problem here. I'll start discussing being organized as very helpful in life and see where that takes us. The girls and I plan out our meals in advance and they like going to the notebook to see what we are eating. They see plenty of ways I organize things so they will at least have an idea of what to do when they decide it is important to them. I'll drop the to-do-list idea.
Pat
Pat
----- Original Message -----
From: Leslie Moyer
To: [email protected]
Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2002 8:00 PM
Subject: RE: [Unschooling-dotcom] Organization
+ -----Original Message-----
+ From: Pat Cald... [mailto:homeschoolmd@...]
+
+ I have another question for everyone. In my observation of
+ adults, and through my own journey to grow-up (as an adult) I see
+ that being organized is a learned skill.
Pat,
It's one thing to say "being organized is an important skill" and another
thing to say "you must be organized my way and be accountable to me".
Organization very definitely has its own inherent/intrinsic rewards....when
it becomes important to your children, they'll either let you know or figure
it out themselves. I don't think it is necessary to devise systems *for*
them.
Most of us went to public school, right? And we have widely varying degrees
of "organization skills", too, right? I don't think school helps anyone
become more organized....it certainly didn't help me. I really think that a
BIG part of one's ability to be organized is be innate, not learned. I
don't even know if organization can be learned....maybe, but I've been
trying for years and I'm not getting much closer to my ideals.
One way you could help your girls is to show them in your life and in theirs
where organization is helpful....or where you have challenges and why. Get
them involved in whatever organizing you do--pay bills, sort mail, plan
social activities, plan meals, shop, sew, cook, paint the house, build a
deck, plant a garden--whatever. If *you* make a to-do list every day and
allow them to be a part of *your* organizing, they will see how you benefit.
My kids are responsible for all their own activities.....gathering their
materials for Scouts, signing up for camp and classes, making social
arrangements, even reminding me of what time and day their activities are.
(I am *very* disorganized with this sort of thing--they've HAD to be
organized because I am NOT.....I keep a calendar, but get distracted during
the day and forget things....I do OK with morning activities, but by
evening, I'm lost again! This hasn't always been a problem for me, but has
been getting worse the last few years!) If my kids are not organized, the
consequences are that they don't get to do that activity/event. It's not
contrived....it's just a fact. They also have several regular "chores"
around the house that need to be done and most all of them have direct
consequences to them if they are not organized enough to get them done.
(They do their own laundry--no clean clothes, feed their pets--or they die,
take turns unloading the dishwasher--or your sibling, whose turn it is
tomorrow, nags you, clean their newly-pierced ears--or they close, take the
new puppy out to pee--or he messes in their bedrooms, etc.)
They're part of my daily life--they know what tools I use to stay organized
and what happens when I get disorganized. They are very organized about
whatever's important to them. I know they *can* be organized if they want
to....if it is important enough to them. They're not organized about
*everything* in their lives, but they are a lot more responsible and
organized than most kids their age...and, in fact, all 3 of them are
generally more organized than I am. They also have gone to work with their
dad from time to time and have visited his office frequently....they see how
PRISTINE his desk is (and how SLOPPY my home desk is!) He is, luckily, very
organized at home, too.
Because organizing is a challenge for me, we do talk semi-regularly about
*different* ways to do it. We talk about whatever their organizing
challenges are and discuss different ways they might improve it. We also
discuss MY organizing challenges and different ways we can improve
it....since almost every time I'm disorganized, their activities suffer,
too. In our house, it hasn't been something we've discussed, implemented a
solution, and never had to deal with again....it's very much an ongoing
process!
If you think this is an important skill to learn, you can discuss that with
your children and explain your reasoning. You can ask them what they think;
ask them how *they* organize things in their life currently--what works for
them and what doesn't. You can tell them that you will be happy to help
them figure out what works for *them* so that things will be easier in their
lives.
Pat, I get the idea that you're a very organized person. Setting goals,
making to-do lists and checking things off that list are probably pretty
important to you. But people can be organized in different ways....and even
disorganized people can be successful. The most successful pay someone ELSE
to organize things for them! ;-)
Ok, now I have to wrap up--Survivor is on. I know because it's on my
calendar.... :-)
--Leslie Moyer / Oklahoma
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
ADVERTISEMENT
Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com
To unsubscribe, set preferences, or read archives:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Unschooling-dotcom
Another great list sponsored by Home Education Magazine!
http://www.home-ed-magazine.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Leslie Moyer
+ Unfortunately, my being
+ organized has allowed my children and husband to not need to be.
Yes, I can see how this could happen. And on the flip side: I REALLY wish
that my deficits didn't work to *create* my childrens' strengths. But it is
what it is. :-) Also, though, I think it's really OK that you have
divisions of labor for things like taking out the garbage as long as it's OK
with both parties involved.
And I really don't think there's anything *wrong* with to-do lists--I like
them myself....but can't ever remember where I put them. :-)
I've always been really well organized *in my head*--I remember where every
piece of paper is buried on my desk, remember where I read every quote,
which website had which information, where certain recipes are, etc....and
never had to rely on any sort of organization system.....until about the
last 3 years. I don't know WHY my memory has deteriorated so bad!! I'm
38--not old enough yet for a senior citizen excuse. :-) But it must have
something to do with age?? Or hormones?? Or stress?? Fatigue??
Migraines?? All of the above?? My middle child, my 13 y/o daughter, has
replaced me as the memory robot....she remembers *everything*....and her
room is as messy as mine. :-)
Anyway--I envy anyone as organized as you!!! And it would be a great gift
to your daughters if they end up half as organized as you are....don't give
up on them, just be more flexible. ;-)
--Leslie Moyer
+ organized has allowed my children and husband to not need to be.
Yes, I can see how this could happen. And on the flip side: I REALLY wish
that my deficits didn't work to *create* my childrens' strengths. But it is
what it is. :-) Also, though, I think it's really OK that you have
divisions of labor for things like taking out the garbage as long as it's OK
with both parties involved.
And I really don't think there's anything *wrong* with to-do lists--I like
them myself....but can't ever remember where I put them. :-)
I've always been really well organized *in my head*--I remember where every
piece of paper is buried on my desk, remember where I read every quote,
which website had which information, where certain recipes are, etc....and
never had to rely on any sort of organization system.....until about the
last 3 years. I don't know WHY my memory has deteriorated so bad!! I'm
38--not old enough yet for a senior citizen excuse. :-) But it must have
something to do with age?? Or hormones?? Or stress?? Fatigue??
Migraines?? All of the above?? My middle child, my 13 y/o daughter, has
replaced me as the memory robot....she remembers *everything*....and her
room is as messy as mine. :-)
Anyway--I envy anyone as organized as you!!! And it would be a great gift
to your daughters if they end up half as organized as you are....don't give
up on them, just be more flexible. ;-)
--Leslie Moyer
rumpleteasermom
--- In Unschooling-dotcom@y..., "Leslie Moyer" <LeslieMoyer@g...>
wrote:
hotel's front office organized. People knew where things were and it
was easy to take inventory. I had to quit because I couldn't take
the schedule anymore. I was working nights so one of us would always
be home. WHen I was younger that was fine. I didn't need much sleep
so I could still be with the kids most of the day too. Anyway, my
former boss, still considers me an employee on hiatas and will take
me back anytime I want to go because he needs my organizational
skills (desperately - the man's office is scary!)
Now, you all think I am some sort of organized freak, right? At
home, I have trouble keeping anything put away. Nothing is
organized. If I do manage to make a dent somewhere, it lasts about
two days. I don't have a clue about why I can't do at home what I
did at work. But I think maybe it shows that if there is a true NEED
for organizing, the skill comes along somehow - if it is just a WANT,
the skill might not.
Bridget
wrote:
>goals,
> Pat, I get the idea that you're a very organized person. Setting
> making to-do lists and checking things off that list are probablypretty
> important to you. But people can be organized in differentways....and even
> disorganized people can be successful. The most successful paysomeone ELSE
> to organize things for them! ;-)When I was working, my boss loved me because I was getting the
hotel's front office organized. People knew where things were and it
was easy to take inventory. I had to quit because I couldn't take
the schedule anymore. I was working nights so one of us would always
be home. WHen I was younger that was fine. I didn't need much sleep
so I could still be with the kids most of the day too. Anyway, my
former boss, still considers me an employee on hiatas and will take
me back anytime I want to go because he needs my organizational
skills (desperately - the man's office is scary!)
Now, you all think I am some sort of organized freak, right? At
home, I have trouble keeping anything put away. Nothing is
organized. If I do manage to make a dent somewhere, it lasts about
two days. I don't have a clue about why I can't do at home what I
did at work. But I think maybe it shows that if there is a true NEED
for organizing, the skill comes along somehow - if it is just a WANT,
the skill might not.
Bridget
Sarah Carothers
Leslie wrote:
<I don't know WHY my memory has deteriorated so bad!! I'm
38--not old enough yet for a senior citizen excuse. :-) But it must have
something to do with age?? Or hormones?? Or stress?? Fatigue??
Migraines?? All of the above?? >
Don't be so quick to dismiss old age, there dearie. I used to remember every little thing... phone numbers that I may have only called once would stick with me for years. It all ended with the birth of #2, which also happened to be the age of 39.
The sad part is you never regain it so you have to find other ways to organize yourself instead of the ole memory.
Sarah
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
<I don't know WHY my memory has deteriorated so bad!! I'm
38--not old enough yet for a senior citizen excuse. :-) But it must have
something to do with age?? Or hormones?? Or stress?? Fatigue??
Migraines?? All of the above?? >
Don't be so quick to dismiss old age, there dearie. I used to remember every little thing... phone numbers that I may have only called once would stick with me for years. It all ended with the birth of #2, which also happened to be the age of 39.
The sad part is you never regain it so you have to find other ways to organize yourself instead of the ole memory.
Sarah
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Leslie Moyer
+ Don't be so quick to dismiss old age, there dearie. <<snip>>
+ The sad part is you never regain it so you have to find other
+ ways to organize yourself instead of the ole memory.
That's what I was afraid of! I'm certainly treating it that way since I
have no other options! ;-)
Leslie Moyer
+ The sad part is you never regain it so you have to find other
+ ways to organize yourself instead of the ole memory.
That's what I was afraid of! I'm certainly treating it that way since I
have no other options! ;-)
Leslie Moyer
Lynda
I started taking this combo vitamin/herbal/whatever in the heck you call
them pill that has ginsing, genko what's it and garlic in it. I swear, not
only is it calming but they old memory IS better. I was beginning to think
I was a candidate for Alzheimers I was forgetting so many things.
I even talk to the doc about it and it gave some of that what I call "ideal
world" advise--get more rest, stress less. Yeah right. Like how does one
do that with a houseful of kids????
But, I swear this combo thing is great. Why I even remember where my keys
are now <g>
Lynda
them pill that has ginsing, genko what's it and garlic in it. I swear, not
only is it calming but they old memory IS better. I was beginning to think
I was a candidate for Alzheimers I was forgetting so many things.
I even talk to the doc about it and it gave some of that what I call "ideal
world" advise--get more rest, stress less. Yeah right. Like how does one
do that with a houseful of kids????
But, I swear this combo thing is great. Why I even remember where my keys
are now <g>
Lynda
----- Original Message -----
From: "Sarah Carothers" <puddles@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, January 11, 2002 6:45 AM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Organization
> Leslie wrote:
> <I don't know WHY my memory has deteriorated so bad!! I'm
> 38--not old enough yet for a senior citizen excuse. :-) But it must have
> something to do with age?? Or hormones?? Or stress?? Fatigue??
> Migraines?? All of the above?? >
>
> Don't be so quick to dismiss old age, there dearie. I used to remember
every little thing... phone numbers that I may have only called once would
stick with me for years. It all ended with the birth of #2, which also
happened to be the age of 39.
> The sad part is you never regain it so you have to find other ways to
organize yourself instead of the ole memory.
> Sarah
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
> Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com
>
> To unsubscribe, set preferences, or read archives:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Unschooling-dotcom
>
> Another great list sponsored by Home Education Magazine!
> http://www.home-ed-magazine.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>