Sarah Carothers

Ren wrote:
<Also, I've noticed in the TV discussion that certain individuals use
the terms "educational"...
I think it pays to lose those narrow definitions of the world if we
are to embrace unschooling in it's most joyful form.
To value all activities as worthy is so helpful!! It certainly has
helped me to try and lose those ideas of what is
educational/noneducational, worthy/not worthy etc....when looking at
the things my kids choose.
Life is learning. All activities can teach us something. And learning
all the time is what unschooling is all about.
Humans learn....you can't stop it unless you try to force it.
Ren

>>>>>>>>>>>>>

I would respectfully disagree with this statement. When I think of Bart
Simpson, a show my kids love to watch (often) I seen no learning, teaching
value from it. Rather, I see it as simply entertainment... nothing more. I
can't quite grasp how you (Ren) draw the conclusion that to consider some tv
as *not* educational is not "embracing unschooling in it's most joyful
form".
IMO everything does not have to be educational.
I guess I lost your train of thought on this ... ??
Sarah

gruvystarchild

---Sarah,
I also see Bart Simpson as entertainment mainly. I'm not suggesting
seeing it as "educational"...I'm going far beyond that thought to say
let's forget about the terms educational vs. entertainment.
Are you saying that shows that you label "entertainment" value only
have no potential to teach anything?
My son was reading over my shoulder just now and said (with a
mischevious grin on his face) "I learn new words from that show all
the time!"
Many shows that in the past I would have viewed as "junk" or sheer
entertainment have opened doors to us. We have had interesting
discussions, great laughs and family bonding time etc.....
Can you see where labeling things just gets in the way of learning
opportunities? If you don't see EVERYTHING as learning, you get
caught up in trying to decipher which things are more valuable.
Sure, some activities have more value than others ( harming a person
is less valuable than helping them...extreme example here) but since
I've lost the definition "educational" it has made our unschooling
much more joyful, more open, more free and less defined.
Less defined?
Yes, when everything is viewed as valuable, when anything my kids
want to explore is honored, it opens the world in a whole new way.
Disagree you may.
But it works...really.
Ren








In Unschooling-dotcom@y..., "Sarah Carothers" <puddles@t...> wrote:
> Ren wrote:
> <Also, I've noticed in the TV discussion that certain individuals
use
> the terms "educational"...
> I think it pays to lose those narrow definitions of the world if
we
> are to embrace unschooling in it's most joyful form.
> To value all activities as worthy is so helpful!! It certainly
has
> helped me to try and lose those ideas of what is
> educational/noneducational, worthy/not worthy etc....when looking
at
> the things my kids choose.
> Life is learning. All activities can teach us something. And
learning
> all the time is what unschooling is all about.
> Humans learn....you can't stop it unless you try to force it.
> Ren
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> I would respectfully disagree with this statement. When I think of
Bart
> Simpson, a show my kids love to watch (often) I seen no learning,
teaching
> value from it. Rather, I see it as simply entertainment... nothing
more. I
> can't quite grasp how you (Ren) draw the conclusion that to
consider some tv
> as *not* educational is not "embracing unschooling in it's most
joyful
> form".
> IMO everything does not have to be educational.
> I guess I lost your train of thought on this ... ??
> Sarah

Sarah Carothers

<Disagree you may.
But it works...really.
Ren
>

No, I don't disagree with that. I think I misunderstood your post or something. This post I understand and agree with.
Sarah

----- Original Message -----
From: gruvystarchild
To: [email protected]
Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2002 7:21 PM
Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] Re: tv discussion


---Sarah,
I also see Bart Simpson as entertainment mainly. I'm not suggesting
seeing it as "educational"...I'm going far beyond that thought to say
let's forget about the terms educational vs. entertainment.
Are you saying that shows that you label "entertainment" value only
have no potential to teach anything?
My son was reading over my shoulder just now and said (with a
mischevious grin on his face) "I learn new words from that show all
the time!"
Many shows that in the past I would have viewed as "junk" or sheer
entertainment have opened doors to us. We have had interesting
discussions, great laughs and family bonding time etc.....
Can you see where labeling things just gets in the way of learning
opportunities? If you don't see EVERYTHING as learning, you get
caught up in trying to decipher which things are more valuable.
Sure, some activities have more value than others ( harming a person
is less valuable than helping them...extreme example here) but since
I've lost the definition "educational" it has made our unschooling
much more joyful, more open, more free and less defined.
Less defined?
Yes, when everything is viewed as valuable, when anything my kids
want to explore is honored, it opens the world in a whole new way.
Disagree you may.
But it works...really.
Ren




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sarah Carothers

<And I really don't wish to disagree or argue with you Sarah because I have liked reading your take on certain topics that come up. I'm just sharing my viewpoint.

Karin
>>>>>>>>>>>>.
Thanks, Karin. I didn't interpret Ren's first post as she meant it. This and Ren's last post explains what she meant and I agree.
Thanks again,
Sarah



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Karin

Ren or anyone else can correct me if I am wrong. But this is how I understood what she said.
Just because *you* see no learning or teaching value from a show like the Simpsons does not necessarily mean that the kids aren't getting some educational value from it. Perhaps they like the style of cartooning and will elaborate on it themselves later. Perhaps the particular episode of a show deals with an issue that sparks an interest which the child remembers and will persue later on. This could be true of Spongebob Squarepants or other seemingly worthless cartoons, or any other TV show considered educational or not. You just never know what the kids are actually getting out of it.

And I really don't wish to disagree or argue with you Sarah because I have liked reading your take on certain topics that come up. I'm just sharing my viewpoint.

Karin





>>>>>>>>>>>>>

I would respectfully disagree with this statement. When I think of Bart
Simpson, a show my kids love to watch (often) I seen no learning, teaching
value from it. Rather, I see it as simply entertainment... nothing more. I
can't quite grasp how you (Ren) draw the conclusion that to consider some tv
as *not* educational is not "embracing unschooling in it's most joyful
form".
IMO everything does not have to be educational.
I guess I lost your train of thought on this ... ??
Sarah


Ren wrote:
<Also, I've noticed in the TV discussion that certain individuals use
the terms "educational"...
I think it pays to lose those narrow definitions of the world if we
are to embrace unschooling in it's most joyful form.
To value all activities as worthy is so helpful!! It certainly has
helped me to try and lose those ideas of what is
educational/noneducational, worthy/not worthy etc....when looking at
the things my kids choose.
Life is learning. All activities can teach us something. And learning
all the time is what unschooling is all about.
Humans learn....you can't stop it unless you try to force it.
Ren





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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 1/9/02 5:50:27 PM, puddles@... writes:

<< When I think of Bart
Simpson, a show my kids love to watch (often) I seen no learning, teaching
value from it. Rather, I see it as simply entertainment... nothing more. >>

My daughter is 5 and doesn't really care for the Simpsons, but my husband and
I love it having watched it longer than she was around. Anyway, one day my
daughter and I had a conversation about television, and what was real and
what was made up stories. She initially thought all animation was pretend,
and all live action was real. We have since had over a dozen discussions of
television shows explaining that people are actors, acting out stories that
could be real or pretend. The thing about the Simpsons (and also Scooby Doo)
is that it is an animated series with guest stars that occasionally come on
as themselves. This sparked a continuing discussion of how an actor such as
Alec Baldwin is on the Simpsons as Alec Baldwin, and he is real, but he is
still telling a pretend story, however Bart Simpson is not real, and although
a real person does his voice, this person is not named Bart Simpson, and is
actually a woman. So The Simpsons might not be teaching physics, but it is
teaching concepts to my young daughter.

Melinda

Nichoel

Ren,
When I was talking about SpongeBob, I was not needing to 'label' it as educational to allow my daughter to watch it, more so I was looking for some redeeming quality that would make me more willing to 'suffer' it being on in the living room..Does this make sense? (IE I dont like the show as it is, but maybe if in the back of my mind I can say to myself It's teaching her XX! Or it has great XX going for it..*I* would be more willing to suffer it..)

I am not sure if that helps clarify my point/reasoning for wanting the redeeming qualities of the show or not but either way my daughter will still get to watch it if she wants to, because obviously *she* finds something redeeming in the show..

Nichoel

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----- Original Message -----
From: gruvystarchild
To: [email protected]
Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2002 4:21 PM
Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] Re: tv discussion


---Sarah,
I also see Bart Simpson as entertainment mainly. I'm not suggesting
seeing it as "educational"...I'm going far beyond that thought to say
let's forget about the terms educational vs. entertainment.
Are you saying that shows that you label "entertainment" value only
have no potential to teach anything?
My son was reading over my shoulder just now and said (with a
mischevious grin on his face) "I learn new words from that show all
the time!"
Many shows that in the past I would have viewed as "junk" or sheer
entertainment have opened doors to us. We have had interesting
discussions, great laughs and family bonding time etc.....
Can you see where labeling things just gets in the way of learning
opportunities? If you don't see EVERYTHING as learning, you get
caught up in trying to decipher which things are more valuable.
Sure, some activities have more value than others ( harming a person
is less valuable than helping them...extreme example here) but since
I've lost the definition "educational" it has made our unschooling
much more joyful, more open, more free and less defined.
Less defined?
Yes, when everything is viewed as valuable, when anything my kids
want to explore is honored, it opens the world in a whole new way.
Disagree you may.
But it works...really.
Ren








In Unschooling-dotcom@y..., "Sarah Carothers" <puddles@t...> wrote:
> Ren wrote:
> <Also, I've noticed in the TV discussion that certain individuals
use
> the terms "educational"...
> I think it pays to lose those narrow definitions of the world if
we
> are to embrace unschooling in it's most joyful form.
> To value all activities as worthy is so helpful!! It certainly
has
> helped me to try and lose those ideas of what is
> educational/noneducational, worthy/not worthy etc....when looking
at
> the things my kids choose.
> Life is learning. All activities can teach us something. And
learning
> all the time is what unschooling is all about.
> Humans learn....you can't stop it unless you try to force it.
> Ren
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> I would respectfully disagree with this statement. When I think of
Bart
> Simpson, a show my kids love to watch (often) I seen no learning,
teaching
> value from it. Rather, I see it as simply entertainment... nothing
more. I
> can't quite grasp how you (Ren) draw the conclusion that to
consider some tv
> as *not* educational is not "embracing unschooling in it's most
joyful
> form".
> IMO everything does not have to be educational.
> I guess I lost your train of thought on this ... ??
> Sarah


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ADVERTISEMENT




Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com

To unsubscribe, set preferences, or read archives:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Unschooling-dotcom

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http://www.home-ed-magazine.com



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 1/9/2002 6:50:23 PM Eastern Standard Time,
puddles@... writes:


> When I think of Bart
> Simpson, a show my kids love to watch (often) I seen no learning, teaching
>

I disagree completely. . . I think everything that we come across in our
lives has learning in it. . . no matter what it is. And especially in the
Simpson's. . .there are some great opportunities in those shows for wonderful
discussions about a myriad of things. To separate learning out. . . where
there are some activities you learn something from and some you don't just
doesn't make sense to me. . . to me, there is always an opportunity to learn
or remember something.

living in abundance
lovemary

There are no victims in this world. . . only opportunities


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Shyrley

Karin wrote:

> Ren or anyone else can correct me if I am wrong. But this is how I
> understood what she said.
> Just because *you* see no learning or teaching value from a show like
> the Simpsons does not necessarily mean that the kids aren't getting
> some educational value from it. Perhaps they like the style of
> cartooning and will elaborate on it themselves later. Perhaps the
> particular episode of a show deals with an issue that sparks an
> interest which the child remembers and will persue later on. This
> could be true of Spongebob Squarepants or other seemingly worthless
> cartoons, or any other TV show considered educational or not. You just
> never know what the kids are actually getting out of it.
>
> And I really don't wish to disagree or argue with you Sarah because I
> have liked reading your take on certain topics that come up. I'm just
> sharing my viewpoint.
>
> Karin
>

Surely the whether a show is 'educational' or not (from an adult
perspective) is irrelevant. Does the child enjoy the show. If yes, then
where's the problem? I enjoy TV and I enjoy computer games. So do my
kids. They have a wide variety of interests as if what they do adds to
their enjoyment of life then fair play to them.
My tuppence worth.

Shyrley


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

rumpleteasermom

--- In Unschooling-dotcom@y..., "Sarah Carothers" <puddles@t...>
wrote:

> IMO everything does not have to be educational.
> Sarah

I disagree. Everything IS educational, whether we see the value or
not.

I think the problem stems from the use of the word "educational" to
only apply to certain types of things. We need to break out of that
box IMHO.

Bridget

rumpleteasermom

--- In Unschooling-dotcom@y..., JAROCKI9@A... wrote:
So The Simpsons might not be teaching physics, but it is
> teaching concepts to my young daughter.

Heck, it's teaching physics here! We often have discussions about
why the thing shtat happen at Homer's workplace are not accurate and
what the REAL effects of some of those actions would be.

Bridget

Karin

Surely, Shyrley! (are they pronounced the same?) I think the core of unschooling is having fun whenever possible. If that means watching cartoons or TV, playing the computer, reading books, doing science experiments or learning algebra, so be it. True, learning algebra may not be considered fun for everybody but if there is a purpose behind it for the child (or adult), it is worth pursuing to reach a desired goal. But that choice of learning or not should be determined by whoever wants to learn.

I agree, whether a show or *whatever* is considered educational or not is irrelevant in terms of unschooling.

Karin




Surely the whether a show is 'educational' or not (from an adult
perspective) is irrelevant. Does the child enjoy the show. If yes, then
where's the problem? I enjoy TV and I enjoy computer games. So do my
kids. They have a wide variety of interests as if what they do adds to
their enjoyment of life then fair play to them.
My tuppence worth.

Shyrley


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]