Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] TV....round 2 *ding*
Kolleen
>Susan,Hello all... I'd like to tell you of _our_ experience with TV.
>I'm wondering...if you think TV watching is dangerous to children...do you
>mean 'all TV viewing'? ALL children? all ages?
Children model. And they also pursue life as passionately (or
dispassionately) as their parents.
My son has recently become an advid TV viewer. Like 5 hours + a day at
times.
We were in Canada for 3 weeks and he watched it for a total of 3 hours.
He had children to play with, a fun house to visit - roasting
marshmellows on the wood stove, snowball fights with crayola modeling
clay, kids are allowed to take apart the couches and cushions for forts
as long as they get put back etc. (get the pix?) And three other children
of various ages around.
I admit, there are times when a particular TV show might come on and I
stop what I'm doing and watch it. Also, he may try to ask something of me
and I might not give him my 100% in my answer (yes, yes, I definately
have my *darker* side at times when reacting to situations). And I have
definately corrected the TV thing BUT...
As far as his father *yikes!*
Here's a man who turns on the TV as soon as he walks in from work, stays
up late watching it (even when his son says - papa, were going to bed
now, do you want to join us) and THEN complains the kid watches too much.
He hasn't correlated his moodiness to the TV viewing either. You know, he
gets grumpy, were playing games making noise having a blast, he comes in
and barks all over our parade, we go watch TV until the grumpiness leaves.
In my experience, TV won't be a big deal when there's lots of happiness,
lightness, activities, other children, and lovely things of such going on.
If it is an issue, then look deeply at yourself, look deeply at the
atmosphere in the house, look deeply at the situation.
IF you can take all of them and say the kid has options, the house is
light, there are children around THEN let him watch TV. He's choosing it
as a qualified choice. Not as an escape option.
Warm regards,
kolleen
rumpleteasermom
99% of the time I agree with this. For those other 5 parents on
this list who have children with mitigating circumstances, feel free
to contact me off-list if you want to discuss this further.
Bridget
this list who have children with mitigating circumstances, feel free
to contact me off-list if you want to discuss this further.
Bridget
--- In Unschooling-dotcom@y..., Kolleen <Kolleen@m...> wrote:
> In my experience, TV won't be a big deal when there's lots of
happiness,
> lightness, activities, other children, and lovely things of such
going on.
>
> If it is an issue, then look deeply at yourself, look deeply at the
> atmosphere in the house, look deeply at the situation.
>
> IF you can take all of them and say the kid has options, the house
is
> light, there are children around THEN let him watch TV. He's
choosing it
> as a qualified choice. Not as an escape option.
>
> Warm regards,
> kolleen
Kolleen
>99% of the time I agree with this. For those other 5 parents onBridget,
>this list who have children with mitigating circumstances, feel free
>to contact me off-list if you want to discuss this further.
>
>Bridget
I didn't mean to leave your circumstance out of this. My apologies.
As you have stated in your last post on how you watched your son go from
happy to sad and all the other pains that come with that.
Its hard to list the alternate circumstances as there are with any
conversation. That is, and still keep the conversation on a certain path.
Regards,
Kolleen
Karin
Hello all,
Back to TV again. My kids have free access to TV, unlimited time and channels, and we have digital cable - many channels.
Today they watched TV for probably less than an hour while eating breakfast. They left the room where the TV was to do other things. I turned the TV off because no one was watching it. It hasn't come back on all day. We are listening to Styx greatest hits at the moment. The kids are eating a late lunch and singing along. Earlier today my 8 yos begged me to do schoolwork with him. We did a math page and a spelling lesson and he opted for a spelling test with 20 words (got 5 wrong - but 15 right!) They are now done eating and still singing along and playing indoor hockey in the hallway.
Tomorrow they may choose to watch more TV, or less or none. I don't really keep track. Who knows what the day will bring. It's exciting not knowing.
Life is great. Life is good. TV is not sensationalized in our house, it's just another thing to do out of many other things.
Karin
having a great Monday because we are unschooling
Back to TV again. My kids have free access to TV, unlimited time and channels, and we have digital cable - many channels.
Today they watched TV for probably less than an hour while eating breakfast. They left the room where the TV was to do other things. I turned the TV off because no one was watching it. It hasn't come back on all day. We are listening to Styx greatest hits at the moment. The kids are eating a late lunch and singing along. Earlier today my 8 yos begged me to do schoolwork with him. We did a math page and a spelling lesson and he opted for a spelling test with 20 words (got 5 wrong - but 15 right!) They are now done eating and still singing along and playing indoor hockey in the hallway.
Tomorrow they may choose to watch more TV, or less or none. I don't really keep track. Who knows what the day will bring. It's exciting not knowing.
Life is great. Life is good. TV is not sensationalized in our house, it's just another thing to do out of many other things.
Karin
having a great Monday because we are unschooling
>Susan,[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>I'm wondering...if you think TV watching is dangerous to children...do you
>mean 'all TV viewing'? ALL children? all ages?
Sarah Carothers
Kolleen wrote:
<If it is an issue, then look deeply at yourself, look deeply at the
atmosphere in the house, look deeply at the situation.
IF you can take all of them and say the kid has options, the house is
light, there are children around THEN let him watch TV. He's choosing it
as a qualified choice. Not as an escape option.
Warm regards,
kolleen
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I think you're right, Kolleen. There is usually something to be discovered
(rectified, addressed... choose your word) when a child displays an
insatiable appetite for tv.
De-schooling is rectifying a problem and part of that process is that a
child will usually zone out for awhile. Most of these kids will do this by
watching a lot of tv. If the kid continues on for what the parent considers
an unreasonable amount of time (I'm thinking over a year here but each
family differs), then the parents might need to look at all the other
factors that could be causing (or has caused) this child to escape from his
reality. That could be a traumatic event that happened at school or home.
In most cases, though, the tv becomes just another tool to use or enjoy. I
remember taking a field trip several years ago to the local tv station. We
gathered in the lobby to wait for everybody to get there and naturally,
there was a big-screen tv for all to view. The kids who had limited tv were
GLUED to the tube and were like zombies when somebody spoke to them. The
kids who were *not* limited with tv were more interested in the surroundings
and how things work, etc. It was interesting to watch because there was not
just two families involved (one tv and one not) but an entire group of
unschoolers! I reinforced my belief to not limit tv.
Sarah
<If it is an issue, then look deeply at yourself, look deeply at the
atmosphere in the house, look deeply at the situation.
IF you can take all of them and say the kid has options, the house is
light, there are children around THEN let him watch TV. He's choosing it
as a qualified choice. Not as an escape option.
Warm regards,
kolleen
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I think you're right, Kolleen. There is usually something to be discovered
(rectified, addressed... choose your word) when a child displays an
insatiable appetite for tv.
De-schooling is rectifying a problem and part of that process is that a
child will usually zone out for awhile. Most of these kids will do this by
watching a lot of tv. If the kid continues on for what the parent considers
an unreasonable amount of time (I'm thinking over a year here but each
family differs), then the parents might need to look at all the other
factors that could be causing (or has caused) this child to escape from his
reality. That could be a traumatic event that happened at school or home.
In most cases, though, the tv becomes just another tool to use or enjoy. I
remember taking a field trip several years ago to the local tv station. We
gathered in the lobby to wait for everybody to get there and naturally,
there was a big-screen tv for all to view. The kids who had limited tv were
GLUED to the tube and were like zombies when somebody spoke to them. The
kids who were *not* limited with tv were more interested in the surroundings
and how things work, etc. It was interesting to watch because there was not
just two families involved (one tv and one not) but an entire group of
unschoolers! I reinforced my belief to not limit tv.
Sarah
Pat Cald...
Hi Sarah,
I'm just playing devil's advocate here, but could the reason the TV was limited for those particular children have been because they are particularly sensitive to TV type stimuli? Just a thought. My nephew has no limits placed on him (for anything), my children have some, when my girls spent the week with him this past summer, they wound up playing games and doing things with their aunt because their cousin was too busy watching TV or playing video games. When we see him at the grandmothers house, he is fun to play with because the TV is not on although, during a few hour visits with us this past Christmas, he warned us that he would not respond to anyone while "The Simpson's" were on. Not a healthy situation in my opinion. This boy is an only child and has grown too accustomed to these things for entertainment. I agree with Kolleen about the need for the environment to be full of stimulating things for kids to do including other kids to play with however once the pattern is set with too much TV, it might be hard to break. What do you think?
Pat
I'm just playing devil's advocate here, but could the reason the TV was limited for those particular children have been because they are particularly sensitive to TV type stimuli? Just a thought. My nephew has no limits placed on him (for anything), my children have some, when my girls spent the week with him this past summer, they wound up playing games and doing things with their aunt because their cousin was too busy watching TV or playing video games. When we see him at the grandmothers house, he is fun to play with because the TV is not on although, during a few hour visits with us this past Christmas, he warned us that he would not respond to anyone while "The Simpson's" were on. Not a healthy situation in my opinion. This boy is an only child and has grown too accustomed to these things for entertainment. I agree with Kolleen about the need for the environment to be full of stimulating things for kids to do including other kids to play with however once the pattern is set with too much TV, it might be hard to break. What do you think?
Pat
----- Original Message -----
From: Sarah Carothers
To: [email protected]
Sent: Monday, January 07, 2002 5:29 PM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] TV....round 2 *ding*
Kolleen wrote:
<If it is an issue, then look deeply at yourself, look deeply at the
atmosphere in the house, look deeply at the situation.
IF you can take all of them and say the kid has options, the house is
light, there are children around THEN let him watch TV. He's choosing it
as a qualified choice. Not as an escape option.
Warm regards,
kolleen
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I think you're right, Kolleen. There is usually something to be discovered
(rectified, addressed... choose your word) when a child displays an
insatiable appetite for tv.
De-schooling is rectifying a problem and part of that process is that a
child will usually zone out for awhile. Most of these kids will do this by
watching a lot of tv. If the kid continues on for what the parent considers
an unreasonable amount of time (I'm thinking over a year here but each
family differs), then the parents might need to look at all the other
factors that could be causing (or has caused) this child to escape from his
reality. That could be a traumatic event that happened at school or home.
In most cases, though, the tv becomes just another tool to use or enjoy. I
remember taking a field trip several years ago to the local tv station. We
gathered in the lobby to wait for everybody to get there and naturally,
there was a big-screen tv for all to view. The kids who had limited tv were
GLUED to the tube and were like zombies when somebody spoke to them. The
kids who were *not* limited with tv were more interested in the surroundings
and how things work, etc. It was interesting to watch because there was not
just two families involved (one tv and one not) but an entire group of
unschoolers! I reinforced my belief to not limit tv.
Sarah
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Sarah Carothers
<<<Hi Sarah,
I'm just playing devil's advocate here, but could the reason the TV was
limited for those particular children have been because they are
particularly sensitive to TV type stimuli? Just a thought.
readily come to mind are situations where the parents can't stand to hear
the constant noise of tv or they find little value in the shows.
Pat wrote: <My nephew has no limits placed on him (for anything), my
children have some, when my girls spent the week with him this past summer,
they wound up playing games and doing things with their aunt because their
cousin was too busy watching TV or playing video games. When we see him at
the grandmothers house, he is fun to play with because the TV is not on
although, during a few hour visits with us this past Christmas, he warned us
that he would not respond to anyone while "The Simpson's" were on. Not a
healthy situation in my opinion. This boy is an only child and has grown
too accustomed to these things for entertainment.>>>
So I would be looking at the parents of this kid and wondering why they aren
t taking him out and about to stimulate some interests other than tv. Why
isn't he building with legos? Why isn't he building a soapbox car? Why isn't
he pulling out a game he normally plays every Friday night with his Dad? Why
isn't hetelling your kids about some cool secret passage he's just
discovered in the computer game, Myst? Is this a public schooled kid? Is he
using his outside-of-school time just to chill? Has he already been
conditioned into thinking that a social life is when kids similar in age are
lined up side by side but not interacting; rather thay are staring at the
front of the room/tv?
Pat wrote:
<<I agree with Kolleen about the need for the environment to be full of
stimulating things for kids to do including other! kids to play with>>>>
and we (parents) should be taking the kids out to various places (science
museums, clubs, art galleries, etc.) These can be things the parent is
interested in, not necessarily the children although often the kids will
develop an interest when exposed to something new. I love to do art stuff
and I take the kids with me to all sorts of places to get inspiration and
new ideas. My kids also see things on tv that generate an interst and it's
my job to take that opportunity to expand their world in that area. (note:
and to also realize when it's just a passing curiosity and not a real
passion. In other words, don't go out and buy some expensive item just
because they said "I wonder..." about it. Wait for some 'truer' signs)
Pat wrote:
<however once the pattern is set with too much TV, it might be hard to break
What do you think?>
I agree. But then again, I think you might be thinking of kids such as the
cousin you mentioned (see above numerous questions as my response. Usually,
imo, there is an underlying reason for somebody to want to vegg out on tv.
Get to the root of the situation and you have the answers.
Sarah
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I'm just playing devil's advocate here, but could the reason the TV was
limited for those particular children have been because they are
particularly sensitive to TV type stimuli? Just a thought.
>>>>I can't say with so many different families involved but the ones that
readily come to mind are situations where the parents can't stand to hear
the constant noise of tv or they find little value in the shows.
Pat wrote: <My nephew has no limits placed on him (for anything), my
children have some, when my girls spent the week with him this past summer,
they wound up playing games and doing things with their aunt because their
cousin was too busy watching TV or playing video games. When we see him at
the grandmothers house, he is fun to play with because the TV is not on
although, during a few hour visits with us this past Christmas, he warned us
that he would not respond to anyone while "The Simpson's" were on. Not a
healthy situation in my opinion. This boy is an only child and has grown
too accustomed to these things for entertainment.>>>
So I would be looking at the parents of this kid and wondering why they aren
t taking him out and about to stimulate some interests other than tv. Why
isn't he building with legos? Why isn't he building a soapbox car? Why isn't
he pulling out a game he normally plays every Friday night with his Dad? Why
isn't hetelling your kids about some cool secret passage he's just
discovered in the computer game, Myst? Is this a public schooled kid? Is he
using his outside-of-school time just to chill? Has he already been
conditioned into thinking that a social life is when kids similar in age are
lined up side by side but not interacting; rather thay are staring at the
front of the room/tv?
Pat wrote:
<<I agree with Kolleen about the need for the environment to be full of
stimulating things for kids to do including other! kids to play with>>>>
>>>>>>>>>I also agree with Kolleen that the environment needs to be a stimulating one
and we (parents) should be taking the kids out to various places (science
museums, clubs, art galleries, etc.) These can be things the parent is
interested in, not necessarily the children although often the kids will
develop an interest when exposed to something new. I love to do art stuff
and I take the kids with me to all sorts of places to get inspiration and
new ideas. My kids also see things on tv that generate an interst and it's
my job to take that opportunity to expand their world in that area. (note:
and to also realize when it's just a passing curiosity and not a real
passion. In other words, don't go out and buy some expensive item just
because they said "I wonder..." about it. Wait for some 'truer' signs)
Pat wrote:
<however once the pattern is set with too much TV, it might be hard to break
What do you think?>
I agree. But then again, I think you might be thinking of kids such as the
cousin you mentioned (see above numerous questions as my response. Usually,
imo, there is an underlying reason for somebody to want to vegg out on tv.
Get to the root of the situation and you have the answers.
Sarah
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
rumpleteasermom
--- In Unschooling-dotcom@y..., Kolleen <Kolleen@m...> wrote:
similar circumstances) have to impose certain limits, my ultimate
goal is to help him learn enough about himself to allow him to make
his own choices as soon as possible.
And I think if someone with a child like Wyndham comes to this list,
it would be much more beneficial to them to hear that the "standard"
unschooling as defined here only works for 99%. And if it doesn't
work for them, they need to have the tools to figure out why and some
options for ways to go down that path as far as they can in their
specific circumstances.
Bridget
>path.
> Its hard to list the alternate circumstances as there are with any
> conversation. That is, and still keep the conversation on a certain
>I agree but I also think that even though I (and a few others in
> Regards,
> Kolleen
similar circumstances) have to impose certain limits, my ultimate
goal is to help him learn enough about himself to allow him to make
his own choices as soon as possible.
And I think if someone with a child like Wyndham comes to this list,
it would be much more beneficial to them to hear that the "standard"
unschooling as defined here only works for 99%. And if it doesn't
work for them, they need to have the tools to figure out why and some
options for ways to go down that path as far as they can in their
specific circumstances.
Bridget
Pat Cald...
Sarah wrote:
isn't he building with legos? Why isn't he building a soapbox car? Why isn't
he pulling out a game he normally plays every Friday night with his Dad? Why
isn't hetelling your kids about some cool secret passage he's just
discovered in the computer game, Myst? Is this a public schooled kid? Is he
using his outside-of-school time just to chill? Has he already been
conditioned into thinking that a social life is when kids similar in age are
lined up side by side but not interacting; rather thay are staring at the
These are such complicated issues. Why do some kids thrive in an environment with many choices and other kids find it overwhelming. I have another nephew whose parents have asked nothing of him. Everything they did was to make his life easier. He is now 15 and had to be admitted to a mental facility for severe depression and anxiety. The diagnoses is that he has no coping skills and that he needs them to be able to deal with teenage issues. This is a little off the TV topic but I think it has some relevance.
Pat
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>So I would be looking at the parents of this kid and wondering why they arent taking him out and about to stimulate some interests other than tv. Why
isn't he building with legos? Why isn't he building a soapbox car? Why isn't
he pulling out a game he normally plays every Friday night with his Dad? Why
isn't hetelling your kids about some cool secret passage he's just
discovered in the computer game, Myst? Is this a public schooled kid? Is he
using his outside-of-school time just to chill? Has he already been
conditioned into thinking that a social life is when kids similar in age are
lined up side by side but not interacting; rather thay are staring at the
>front of the room/tv?This is a public schooled kid and he does need a lot of time to chill although I don't know why. My dd is in the same grade as he is and this summer when they visited she had not been homeschooled yet. My kids have always played with each other or friends but I made sure there was a balance. My nephew has always been able to do what ever he wants. His mother tried to take him to museums and other outside places but he never wants to leave the house so they don't go. They even took him to a phychologist to make sure his behavior was normal. The guy said he really doesn't have any problems. The questions you asked are why isn't he pulling out the legos, the soapbox car, or the game? My question is why isn't his mother talking to him about this? Why is she doing everything for him, even playing with his cousins. Maybe the problem is in the fact that he is not asked to contribute to the family in any way. They have a cleaning lady and he never has to pick up after himself. His parents even tie his shoes for him when he asks. They figure when he is ready to do it himself he will. I don't see him develping any coping skills.
These are such complicated issues. Why do some kids thrive in an environment with many choices and other kids find it overwhelming. I have another nephew whose parents have asked nothing of him. Everything they did was to make his life easier. He is now 15 and had to be admitted to a mental facility for severe depression and anxiety. The diagnoses is that he has no coping skills and that he needs them to be able to deal with teenage issues. This is a little off the TV topic but I think it has some relevance.
Pat
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Lorraine Goods
On Mon, 7 Jan 2002, Sarah Carothers wrote:
the few occasions these kids had to watch. I don't think you can make any
long-term generalizations, though, about what all this means in the long
run.
I have two old friends who grew up w/limited TV in their homes. I
always felt sorry for them bc they weren't allowed to watch as much as
I was. I knew both of these women in high school and we all went to
college together. Both spent a lot of time watching TV freshman year, as I
remember (this was also the early days of MTV). After this period of
initial bingeing, both went on to develop their adult viewing habits;
one of them is a moderate watcher today, the other has no TV in her home.
But overall, who spent more time, and IMO wasted more time, watching TV in
those formative early years? Who spent more time reading, playing and
doing, IMO again, more worthwhile things? I don't think their being
limited in their TV watching had negative effects on them being able to
make choices for themselves, either as kids or adults, bc they had freedom
in other areas of their lives.
In other words, I don't think those kids being glued to the TV is
indicative of much, in the long run. Just my opinion.
Best,
Lynn
> The kids who had limited tv wereI'm not surprised that this is the case, since this was probably one of
> GLUED to the tube and were like zombies when somebody spoke to them. The
> kids who were *not* limited with tv were more interested in the surroundings
> and how things work, etc. It was interesting to watch
the few occasions these kids had to watch. I don't think you can make any
long-term generalizations, though, about what all this means in the long
run.
I have two old friends who grew up w/limited TV in their homes. I
always felt sorry for them bc they weren't allowed to watch as much as
I was. I knew both of these women in high school and we all went to
college together. Both spent a lot of time watching TV freshman year, as I
remember (this was also the early days of MTV). After this period of
initial bingeing, both went on to develop their adult viewing habits;
one of them is a moderate watcher today, the other has no TV in her home.
But overall, who spent more time, and IMO wasted more time, watching TV in
those formative early years? Who spent more time reading, playing and
doing, IMO again, more worthwhile things? I don't think their being
limited in their TV watching had negative effects on them being able to
make choices for themselves, either as kids or adults, bc they had freedom
in other areas of their lives.
In other words, I don't think those kids being glued to the TV is
indicative of much, in the long run. Just my opinion.
Best,
Lynn
Sarah Carothers
Pat,
I believe that kids like the one you have described are not so unusual; they
are just 'screaming' louder than the others that they hate being controlled!
They use *any* situation they can to regain control.... even to go to the
lengths of contolling Mommie to tie his shoes! There so precious little that
he has control over, it's like he is willing to do anything to feel in
charge somehow. To make him do chores (and not have the cleaning lady)
would only add more to his overloaded plate of being out of control. NOT
that I think kids shouldn't have responsibilities at home... I do. But this
particular situation you mention is all about a kid rebelling the way he
knows how to his life situation. Your dd, who has been controlled in the
same way is more adaptable and more of a person who doesn't resent being
told what to do. (will I get torched by the list if I point out that most
women are categorized as "people pleasers?" :( )
I just remembered reading something ages ago when my kids were babies...
something along the lines that babies need to feel secure. If they don't,
they act out, hoping to get some feedback from the parents that offers them
a secure feeling. *Maybe* that's the problem with this kid.
Just to relate this back to the thread we were on, you could also say that
unlimited tv for an infant is bad; the infant is dependent on the parents to
take care of him... and that includes taking him out and exposing him to
things other than tv. At some point, though, the infant becomes a child and
will learn self-control, responsibility and all the other stuff we've been
saying that some of us believe (and that is, that elementary aged kids are
old enough to be self-limiting with tv, given other alternatives are present
.. trips outside the house, a set of legos and games available, etc. ).
Pat wrote:
This is a public schooled kid and he does need a lot of time to chill
although I don't know why. My dd is in the same grade as he is and this
summer when they visited she had not been homeschooled yet. My kids have
always played with each other or friends but I made sure there was a balance
My nephew has always been able to do what ever he wants. His mother tried
to take him to museums and other outside places but he never wants to leave
the house so they don't go. They even took him to a phychologist to make
sure his behavior was normal. The guy said he really doesn't have any
problems. The questions you asked are why isn't he pulling out the legos,
the soapbox car, or the game? My question is why isn't his mother talking
to him about this? Why is she doing everything for him, even playing with
his cousins. Maybe the problem is in the fact that he is not asked to
contribute to the family in any way. They have a cl! eaning lady and he
never has to pick up after himself. His parents even tie his shoes for him
when he asks. They figure when he is ready to do it himself he will. I don
t see him develping any coping skills.
environment with many choices and other kids find it overwhelming. I have
another nephew whose parents have asked nothing of him. Everything they did
was to make his life easier. He is now 15 and had to be admitted to a
mental facility for severe depression and anxiety. The diagnoses is that he
has no coping skills and that he needs them to be able to deal with teenage
issues. This is a little off the TV topic but I think it has some relevance
(do you want peas or potatoes?... to a toddler). Then you progress from
this or that" choices to a broader spectrum... (what would you like for
dinner tonight?). If you've never had to choose between peas or potatoes,
how the hell are ya gonna choose between more weightier issues faced in the
teen years?!
I hope I'm making sense. I am in my mind but with the keyboard and without
facial expressions and my wild hand gestures, who knows! <g>
Sarah Carothers
~oo~
puddles@...
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I believe that kids like the one you have described are not so unusual; they
are just 'screaming' louder than the others that they hate being controlled!
They use *any* situation they can to regain control.... even to go to the
lengths of contolling Mommie to tie his shoes! There so precious little that
he has control over, it's like he is willing to do anything to feel in
charge somehow. To make him do chores (and not have the cleaning lady)
would only add more to his overloaded plate of being out of control. NOT
that I think kids shouldn't have responsibilities at home... I do. But this
particular situation you mention is all about a kid rebelling the way he
knows how to his life situation. Your dd, who has been controlled in the
same way is more adaptable and more of a person who doesn't resent being
told what to do. (will I get torched by the list if I point out that most
women are categorized as "people pleasers?" :( )
I just remembered reading something ages ago when my kids were babies...
something along the lines that babies need to feel secure. If they don't,
they act out, hoping to get some feedback from the parents that offers them
a secure feeling. *Maybe* that's the problem with this kid.
Just to relate this back to the thread we were on, you could also say that
unlimited tv for an infant is bad; the infant is dependent on the parents to
take care of him... and that includes taking him out and exposing him to
things other than tv. At some point, though, the infant becomes a child and
will learn self-control, responsibility and all the other stuff we've been
saying that some of us believe (and that is, that elementary aged kids are
old enough to be self-limiting with tv, given other alternatives are present
.. trips outside the house, a set of legos and games available, etc. ).
Pat wrote:
This is a public schooled kid and he does need a lot of time to chill
although I don't know why. My dd is in the same grade as he is and this
summer when they visited she had not been homeschooled yet. My kids have
always played with each other or friends but I made sure there was a balance
My nephew has always been able to do what ever he wants. His mother tried
to take him to museums and other outside places but he never wants to leave
the house so they don't go. They even took him to a phychologist to make
sure his behavior was normal. The guy said he really doesn't have any
problems. The questions you asked are why isn't he pulling out the legos,
the soapbox car, or the game? My question is why isn't his mother talking
to him about this? Why is she doing everything for him, even playing with
his cousins. Maybe the problem is in the fact that he is not asked to
contribute to the family in any way. They have a cl! eaning lady and he
never has to pick up after himself. His parents even tie his shoes for him
when he asks. They figure when he is ready to do it himself he will. I don
t see him develping any coping skills.
>>>>>>>>>>>>These are such complicated issues. Why do some kids thrive in an
environment with many choices and other kids find it overwhelming. I have
another nephew whose parents have asked nothing of him. Everything they did
was to make his life easier. He is now 15 and had to be admitted to a
mental facility for severe depression and anxiety. The diagnoses is that he
has no coping skills and that he needs them to be able to deal with teenage
issues. This is a little off the TV topic but I think it has some relevance
>>>>>>>.Again... somewhere along the line, an individual needs to be given choices
(do you want peas or potatoes?... to a toddler). Then you progress from
this or that" choices to a broader spectrum... (what would you like for
dinner tonight?). If you've never had to choose between peas or potatoes,
how the hell are ya gonna choose between more weightier issues faced in the
teen years?!
I hope I'm making sense. I am in my mind but with the keyboard and without
facial expressions and my wild hand gestures, who knows! <g>
Sarah Carothers
~oo~
puddles@...
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sarah Carothers
Lynn wrote:
<. I don't think you can make any
long-term generalizations, though, about what all this means in the long
run.
more magical/wonderful and even when they are adults, they will still have
to go through the process of realizing that 'it' (in this case, tv) isn't so
magical afterall. I would personally rather de-mystify the tv now instead of
having my kids feel I was blocking them from something really special.
Besides, I *do* believe there are some special things to be had from tv.
Sarah
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
<. I don't think you can make any
long-term generalizations, though, about what all this means in the long
run.
>I do. I think that it shows that *anything* you withold from a child becomes
more magical/wonderful and even when they are adults, they will still have
to go through the process of realizing that 'it' (in this case, tv) isn't so
magical afterall. I would personally rather de-mystify the tv now instead of
having my kids feel I was blocking them from something really special.
Besides, I *do* believe there are some special things to be had from tv.
Sarah
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Lorraine Goods
On Tue, 8 Jan 2002, Sarah Carothers wrote:
rather protect his mind and spirit now, in what I perceive to be these
crucial early years. If that means it'll take him longer to learn
that TV isn't magical and wonderful, so be it. It's a small price to pay,
for me, since I think the effects of TV are a lot more harmful than most
parents do.
BTW, I appreciate the overall anti-flame tone of this list. It's great to
be able to argue points w/out folks getting personal and nasty. Despite
restricted bedtimes and limited TV, I'm pretty much a hardcore unschooler
in every other way I can think of. But y'all have definitely made me
think. If I ever ever experiment and decide to take away those
restrictions, I will definitely keep you all apprised.
Best,
Lynn
> I do. I think that it shows that *anything* you withold from a child becomesI guess it's a trade-off, in terms of where one's priorities are. I'd
> more magical/wonderful and even when they are adults, they will still have
> to go through the process of realizing that 'it' (in this case, tv) isn't so
> magical afterall. I would personally rather de-mystify the tv now instead of
> having my kids feel I was blocking them from something really special.
rather protect his mind and spirit now, in what I perceive to be these
crucial early years. If that means it'll take him longer to learn
that TV isn't magical and wonderful, so be it. It's a small price to pay,
for me, since I think the effects of TV are a lot more harmful than most
parents do.
> Besides, I *do* believe there are some special things to be had from tv.Me, too, which is why we don't totally restrict it.
> Sarah
BTW, I appreciate the overall anti-flame tone of this list. It's great to
be able to argue points w/out folks getting personal and nasty. Despite
restricted bedtimes and limited TV, I'm pretty much a hardcore unschooler
in every other way I can think of. But y'all have definitely made me
think. If I ever ever experiment and decide to take away those
restrictions, I will definitely keep you all apprised.
Best,
Lynn
Lynda
Yes there are <g> HGTV, for one AND 24 is back tonight!!!!!
Lynda
Lynda
----- Original Message -----
From: "Sarah Carothers" <puddles@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2002 4:17 PM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] TV....round 2 *ding*
> Lynn wrote:
> <. I don't think you can make any
> long-term generalizations, though, about what all this means in the long
> run.
> >
> I do. I think that it shows that *anything* you withold from a child
becomes
> more magical/wonderful and even when they are adults, they will still have
> to go through the process of realizing that 'it' (in this case, tv) isn't
so
> magical afterall. I would personally rather de-mystify the tv now instead
of
> having my kids feel I was blocking them from something really special.
> Besides, I *do* believe there are some special things to be had from tv.
> Sarah
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
> Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com
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>
>
Sarah Carothers
Lynda wrote:
<24 is back tonight>
What is that? (lol... I have never had tv withheld from me in my life. As an
adult, I rarely watch it! :-)
Sarah Carothers
~oo~
puddles@...
-------Original Message-------
From: [email protected]
Date: Tuesday, January 08, 2002 08:33:44 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] TV....round 2 *ding*
Yes there are <g> HGTV, for one AND 24 is back tonight!!!!!
Lynda
<24 is back tonight>
What is that? (lol... I have never had tv withheld from me in my life. As an
adult, I rarely watch it! :-)
Sarah Carothers
~oo~
puddles@...
-------Original Message-------
From: [email protected]
Date: Tuesday, January 08, 2002 08:33:44 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] TV....round 2 *ding*
Yes there are <g> HGTV, for one AND 24 is back tonight!!!!!
Lynda
----- Original Message -----
From: "Sarah Carothers" <puddles@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2002 4:17 PM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] TV....round 2 *ding*
> Lynn wrote:
> <. I don't think you can make any
> long-term generalizations, though, about what all this means in the long
> run.
> >
> I do. I think that it shows that *anything* you withold from a child
becomes
> more magical/wonderful and even when they are adults, they will still have
> to go through the process of realizing that 'it' (in this case, tv) isn't
so
> magical afterall. I would personally rather de-mystify the tv now instead
of
> having my kids feel I was blocking them from something really special.
> Besides, I *do* believe there are some special things to be had from tv.
> Sarah
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
> Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com
>
> To unsubscribe, set preferences, or read archives:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Unschooling-dotcom
>
> Another great list sponsored by Home Education Magazine!
> http://www.home-ed-magazine.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Leslie Moyer
Sarah wrote:
+ What is that? (lol... I have never had tv withheld from me in my
+ life. As an adult, I rarely watch it! :-)
Ditto! I occasionally enjoy the HGTV channel, but never can find TIME--too
many interesting things to do.....and my email addiction, of course. ;-)
My *only* TV vice is.....embarrassing revelation here.....Survivor!! Ack!
The only show I regularly watch. We do enjoy videos, though, and rent a lot
of them.
--Leslie Moyer / Oklahoma
+ What is that? (lol... I have never had tv withheld from me in my
+ life. As an adult, I rarely watch it! :-)
Ditto! I occasionally enjoy the HGTV channel, but never can find TIME--too
many interesting things to do.....and my email addiction, of course. ;-)
My *only* TV vice is.....embarrassing revelation here.....Survivor!! Ack!
The only show I regularly watch. We do enjoy videos, though, and rent a lot
of them.
--Leslie Moyer / Oklahoma
Leslie Moyer
Sarah wrote:
+ Again... somewhere along the line, an individual needs to be given choices
+ (do you want peas or potatoes?... to a toddler). Then you progress from
+ this or that" choices to a broader spectrum... (what would you like for
+ dinner tonight?). If you've never had to choose between peas or potatoes,
+ how the hell are ya gonna choose between more weightier issues
+ faced in the teen years?!
I have nothing much to add....this just deserved a second reading! :-)
It's difficult to talk about specific children/families because we're all
different. However, the way Sarah phrased it above is true no matter whose
children/families we're talking about.
--Leslie Moyer / Oklahoma
+ Again... somewhere along the line, an individual needs to be given choices
+ (do you want peas or potatoes?... to a toddler). Then you progress from
+ this or that" choices to a broader spectrum... (what would you like for
+ dinner tonight?). If you've never had to choose between peas or potatoes,
+ how the hell are ya gonna choose between more weightier issues
+ faced in the teen years?!
I have nothing much to add....this just deserved a second reading! :-)
It's difficult to talk about specific children/families because we're all
different. However, the way Sarah phrased it above is true no matter whose
children/families we're talking about.
--Leslie Moyer / Oklahoma
Lynda
The kidlets are avid HGTV, History Channel, Animal Channel, TLC and all
those other station "nuts." So they got me hooked on the Trading Spaces
shows.
At anyrate, kidlet #5 asked me to watch tv with him about 2 months ago and
we were flipping through the stations looking for something to watch and we
thought we found a pretty good movie. I mean, Keifer Southerland isn't
exactly a television series person and who'da thought this CIA/spy thriller
type thing would be a series and not a movie.
It is called 24 and is about 24 hours in the life of this agent. Each show
is exactly one hour out of the 24 hours in his life. Kewl concept complete
with the ticking clock as the minutes and seconds count down in his life.
Lynda
those other station "nuts." So they got me hooked on the Trading Spaces
shows.
At anyrate, kidlet #5 asked me to watch tv with him about 2 months ago and
we were flipping through the stations looking for something to watch and we
thought we found a pretty good movie. I mean, Keifer Southerland isn't
exactly a television series person and who'da thought this CIA/spy thriller
type thing would be a series and not a movie.
It is called 24 and is about 24 hours in the life of this agent. Each show
is exactly one hour out of the 24 hours in his life. Kewl concept complete
with the ticking clock as the minutes and seconds count down in his life.
Lynda
----- Original Message -----
From: "Sarah Carothers" <puddles@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2002 6:02 PM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] TV....round 2 *ding*
> Lynda wrote:
> <24 is back tonight>
> What is that? (lol... I have never had tv withheld from me in my life. As
an
> adult, I rarely watch it! :-)
>
>
>
>
> Sarah Carothers
> ~oo~
> puddles@...
> -------Original Message-------
>
> From: [email protected]
> Date: Tuesday, January 08, 2002 08:33:44 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] TV....round 2 *ding*
>
> Yes there are <g> HGTV, for one AND 24 is back tonight!!!!!
>
> Lynda
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Sarah Carothers" <puddles@...>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2002 4:17 PM
> Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] TV....round 2 *ding*
>
>
> > Lynn wrote:
> > <. I don't think you can make any
> > long-term generalizations, though, about what all this means in the long
> > run.
> > >
> > I do. I think that it shows that *anything* you withold from a child
> becomes
> > more magical/wonderful and even when they are adults, they will still
have
> > to go through the process of realizing that 'it' (in this case, tv)
isn't
> so
> > magical afterall. I would personally rather de-mystify the tv now
instead
> of
> > having my kids feel I was blocking them from something really special.
> > Besides, I *do* believe there are some special things to be had from tv.
> > Sarah
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
> > Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
> > Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com
> >
> > To unsubscribe, set preferences, or read archives:
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Unschooling-dotcom
> >
> > Another great list sponsored by Home Education Magazine!
> > http://www.home-ed-magazine.com
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> ADVERTISEMENT
>
>
>
>
> Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
> Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com
>
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>
>
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>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
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Sarah Carothers
Lynda wrote:
<It is called 24 and is about 24 hours in the life of this agent. Each show
is exactly one hour out of the 24 hours in his life. Kewl concept complete
with the ticking clock as the minutes and seconds count down in his life.
Lynda
Does anybody else watch the news??? I haven't heard it mentioned and to me,
whether it's slanted or not depending on the channel, I enjoy finding out
what's going on
Sarah Carothers
~oo~
puddles@...
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
<It is called 24 and is about 24 hours in the life of this agent. Each show
is exactly one hour out of the 24 hours in his life. Kewl concept complete
with the ticking clock as the minutes and seconds count down in his life.
Lynda
>That sounds good! I also watch Trading Spaces when I remember to.
Does anybody else watch the news??? I haven't heard it mentioned and to me,
whether it's slanted or not depending on the channel, I enjoy finding out
what's going on
Sarah Carothers
~oo~
puddles@...
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 1/8/2002 6:06:56 PM Eastern Standard Time,
homeschoolmd@... writes:
and different and thrive in different situations. It is difficult when
finally faced with true choices in life. Many people find it very fearful and
take quite a bit of time to adjust to it. . . sometimes years.
living in abundance
lovemary
There are no victims in this world. . . only opportunities
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
homeschoolmd@... writes:
> Why do some kids thrive in an environment with many choices and other kidsBut this is not a "kids" issue. . . its a people issue. People are so diverse
>
and different and thrive in different situations. It is difficult when
finally faced with true choices in life. Many people find it very fearful and
take quite a bit of time to adjust to it. . . sometimes years.
living in abundance
lovemary
There are no victims in this world. . . only opportunities
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
rumpleteasermom
--- In Unschooling-dotcom@y..., "Leslie Moyer" <LeslieMoyer@g...>
wrote:
Roswell!
Bridget
wrote:
> My *only* TV vice is.....embarrassing revelationhere.....Survivor!! Ack!
> The only show I regularly watch. We do enjoy videos, though, andrent a lot
> of them.Hey, we all have our embarrassing TV favs! Mine are Buffy, Angel and
>
> --Leslie Moyer / Oklahoma
Roswell!
Bridget
rumpleteasermom
--- In Unschooling-dotcom@y..., "Sarah Carothers" <puddles@t...>
wrote:
to places like NPR, BBCNews or the Guardian Unlimited.
Bridget
wrote:
>and to me,
> That sounds good! I also watch Trading Spaces when I remember to.
> Does anybody else watch the news??? I haven't heard it mentioned
> whether it's slanted or not depending on the channel, I enjoyfinding out
> what's going onIf you are looking for unbiased news sources I recommend online. Go
>
>
>
to places like NPR, BBCNews or the Guardian Unlimited.
Bridget
Nichoel
Ahem..And in this house it is Survivor and ER..
My daughter is fascinated with Maternity ward and trauma; life in the ER as well, she watches those and Zoom most often (When she's not watching SpongeBob Squarepants..Someone please show me the educational portion of that show??? I loathe it :(...but we dont limit it during the day, at night though we do since we now have only 1 tv, she has to 'share' with us then!)
Nichoel
Fertility Friend Online Support Guide
Now you CAN conceive online..
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My daughter is fascinated with Maternity ward and trauma; life in the ER as well, she watches those and Zoom most often (When she's not watching SpongeBob Squarepants..Someone please show me the educational portion of that show??? I loathe it :(...but we dont limit it during the day, at night though we do since we now have only 1 tv, she has to 'share' with us then!)
Nichoel
Fertility Friend Online Support Guide
Now you CAN conceive online..
www.fertilityfriend.com/sm/21749/
----- Original Message -----
From: rumpleteasermom
To: [email protected]
Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2002 9:53 AM
Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] Re: TV....round 2 *ding*
--- In Unschooling-dotcom@y..., "Sarah Carothers" <puddles@t...>
wrote:
>
> That sounds good! I also watch Trading Spaces when I remember to.
> Does anybody else watch the news??? I haven't heard it mentioned
and to me,
> whether it's slanted or not depending on the channel, I enjoy
finding out
> what's going on
>
>
>
If you are looking for unbiased news sources I recommend online. Go
to places like NPR, BBCNews or the Guardian Unlimited.
Bridget
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Nichoel
Thanks Brynn...
I'll have to watch it a bit closer next time it's on..but man it just grates on my nerves :( Kinda like Britney Spears :twitching:...
Nichoel
Fertility Friend Online Support Guide
Now you CAN conceive online..
www.fertilityfriend.com/sm/21749/
I'll have to watch it a bit closer next time it's on..but man it just grates on my nerves :( Kinda like Britney Spears :twitching:...
Nichoel
Fertility Friend Online Support Guide
Now you CAN conceive online..
www.fertilityfriend.com/sm/21749/
----- Original Message -----
From: Brynn
To: [email protected]
Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2002 10:27 AM
Subject: RE: [Unschooling-dotcom]Spongebob Squarepants-was Tv
Hi Nichoel :-)
I SO abhorred that show. I thought it was gross, not funny, "off". This is
strange because I, as well as my entire family, are a bit "off" and we
embrace weirdness. This show just really got on my nerves. Then, after
listening to the kids and my husband laughing about it and talking about it,
I found myself watching one of the shows while knitting one evening. It was
something about swearing, and one of the creatures on the show, when asked
what "that" was, said "oh, THOSE are "sentence enhancers", you just sprinkle
a little bit on top of anything you say, and *POOF*, you've got yourself a
spicy sentence sandwich!" So then Sponge Bob was walking all over the place
swearing. The swearing was actually bleeped with babbles of nonsense. At the
end, another one of the creatures explains to Sponge Bob that they shouldn't
be talking like that. I tell you, I was laughing so hard! I still don't care
much for the animation, but I see the humor in a lot of it. I am trying to
stick with a "laughter is the best medicine" mindset regarding the show now.
Take care,
Brynn
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Brynn
Hi Nichoel :-)
I SO abhorred that show. I thought it was gross, not funny, "off". This is
strange because I, as well as my entire family, are a bit "off" and we
embrace weirdness. This show just really got on my nerves. Then, after
listening to the kids and my husband laughing about it and talking about it,
I found myself watching one of the shows while knitting one evening. It was
something about swearing, and one of the creatures on the show, when asked
what "that" was, said "oh, THOSE are "sentence enhancers", you just sprinkle
a little bit on top of anything you say, and *POOF*, you've got yourself a
spicy sentence sandwich!" So then Sponge Bob was walking all over the place
swearing. The swearing was actually bleeped with babbles of nonsense. At the
end, another one of the creatures explains to Sponge Bob that they shouldn't
be talking like that. I tell you, I was laughing so hard! I still don't care
much for the animation, but I see the humor in a lot of it. I am trying to
stick with a "laughter is the best medicine" mindset regarding the show now.
Take care,
Brynn
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I SO abhorred that show. I thought it was gross, not funny, "off". This is
strange because I, as well as my entire family, are a bit "off" and we
embrace weirdness. This show just really got on my nerves. Then, after
listening to the kids and my husband laughing about it and talking about it,
I found myself watching one of the shows while knitting one evening. It was
something about swearing, and one of the creatures on the show, when asked
what "that" was, said "oh, THOSE are "sentence enhancers", you just sprinkle
a little bit on top of anything you say, and *POOF*, you've got yourself a
spicy sentence sandwich!" So then Sponge Bob was walking all over the place
swearing. The swearing was actually bleeped with babbles of nonsense. At the
end, another one of the creatures explains to Sponge Bob that they shouldn't
be talking like that. I tell you, I was laughing so hard! I still don't care
much for the animation, but I see the humor in a lot of it. I am trying to
stick with a "laughter is the best medicine" mindset regarding the show now.
Take care,
Brynn
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Brynn
oh no. I could sit throught a 48 hour Sponge Bob Squarepants marathon before
I could handle BS for an hour. I have a MAJOR problem with her and those of
the sort.
Brynn
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I could handle BS for an hour. I have a MAJOR problem with her and those of
the sort.
Brynn
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Candy
I am sorry, I may be totally ignorant, but what is BS?
----- Original Message -----
From: Brynn
To: [email protected]
Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2002 10:33 AM
Subject: RE: [Unschooling-dotcom]Spongebob Squarepants-was Tv
oh no. I could sit throught a 48 hour Sponge Bob Squarepants marathon before
I could handle BS for an hour. I have a MAJOR problem with her and those of
the sort.
Brynn
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Candy
Oh, how fitting! I never really thought about it like that. :o) There isn't anyone I have ever talked to that likes her, how does that girl make money? Teenage boys? It sure is not for her amazing singing voice.
----- Original Message -----
From: Brynn
To: [email protected]
Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2002 11:04 AM
Subject: RE: [Unschooling-dotcom]Spongebob Squarepants-was Tv
Merely my abbreviation for Brittney Spears. BS. Seems to fit in to me.(I
know, that was bad, and I don't mean any offense to those of you that like
her so I will try to be nice about it?)
Brynn
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Brynn
Merely my abbreviation for Brittney Spears. BS. Seems to fit in to me.(I
know, that was bad, and I don't mean any offense to those of you that like
her so I will try to be nice about it?)
Brynn
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
know, that was bad, and I don't mean any offense to those of you that like
her so I will try to be nice about it?)
Brynn
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Kolleen
>If you are looking for unbiased news sources I recommend online. GoI find that the BBC (never looked at NPR or Guardian) to be unlimited in
>to places like NPR, BBCNews or the Guardian Unlimited.
>
>Bridget
one way, and limited in another.
Just as BBC watchers have said about our news.
I think every source has its agenda. So get what you need, and leave the
rest.
regards,
Kolleen