The White's

Hi all, coming out of lurkdom on the issue of late nights & trying to have
some time for yourself & your partner/husband. What a concept!

My name is Cindy White, we live in a very rural area of SW Virginia. We've
only lived here about 2 1/2 years, having moved here from small town north
of Charlotte (grew up in Charlotte, so rural life takes some getting use
to!). We have 2 children, Dillon is 6 and Emma has just turned 3.

We have always known we would homeschool. We believe in attachment parenting
and child-led learning (especially for developmental issues like weaning and
potty training), so we naturally fell into an unschool philosophy of
education. The unschool thing has been a big hurdle for me where we
live...I am the only one, and there is only one other family here who does
not homeschool for religious reasons.

When Dillon was young I was able to do shift work as a customer svc rep for
the power company, working 3 12's on the weekends while my husband went to
school full time. That way we were able to keep Dillon out of daycare. My
dh & I were like 2 ships passing in the night. I only had to work (same
shift) after maternity leave with Emma about 3 months before dh gets current
job & I am able to stay at home full time. That was when we moved here.

Thank God I have a WONDERFUL husband. When Dillon was small I found out
very quickly how easy it is to lose yourself. Then you feel VERY guilty
because you feel you are neglecting your husband & your marriage. But my
husband always understood & has always encouraged me.

Sometimes, manytimes, your are just all touched out. It's not that you
don't want to "snuggle", it's just that you've been snuggling all day with
someone else (your children) & it's hard to want more, even a different
kind. This is mostly when they are babies.

Now, in our family, we are just SO busy. You all know what my schedule is
like with swim classes, playgroups, grocery & other errands, housework &
laundry, etc. I don't have to paint that picture for you! Shortly after
beginning his new job & moving here my dh began working towards his MBA at
Wake Forest. Well....MBA, married but alone? Works all day, drives over 1
hr (one way) twice a week, usually more often due to group projects for
school. When he is at home he is studying.

We are all very greedy with our time, if he has any free time, because there
is so little of it. My dh & I have to work extra hard at finding time
together, weekend mornings sometimes are good as we can find something to
distract the kids for a little while! We don't have a babysitter, don't
really know anyone, but mainly because Dillon is diabetic. Emma doesn't
like anyone else, anyway. So........

I don't think there is an answer to this question except to work harder at
making it work...just like the homeschool thing. I'm sure some families
suffer more than others during periods like this due to personality issues,
but luckily my family is doing fine. My dh makes an extra effort to make
time for me to be alone, even if it's just going to Walmart alone. I also
make an effort to give him time he needs...sometimes just some daily cave
time, other times he gets to go by himself to bluegrass festivals or
canoeing/camping.

I guess the point I'm trying to make in this long post is, don't give up.
This is what all good marriages go thru, at least the ones with children.
All of us as homeschoolers have already chosen the harder but more rewarding
path for our families. By harder I mean we don't take the fast & easy
way...we don't look forward to the day we can send our kids to school or to
the kids bedtime, so we will be rid of them for a while. We all chose to be
with our kids because we like them, we like being with them. And because of
that we have to occasionally work harder at the other things. It'll all be
over so soon, the kids will be grown & gone & we'll have plenty of time to
keep house & snuggle.

I do think you need to keep talking about it...mainly because of the
female/male, venus/mars way of communicating. My husband needs me to be
direct with him, I need him to be subtle with me....I suspect that's a
gender thing.

Sorry this is sooooo long....this has been an ongoing thing for us, since
children, and is just part of marriage. And thanks, to all of you, who
support my unschooling choices.

Cindy
Who rationalizes not doing housework by saying:
"I'm going to BE dirt one day, why fight it now!"

[email protected]

In a message dated 9/20/99 7:38:01 PM Central Daylight Time,
jwwjr@... writes:

<< We have always known we would homeschool. We believe in attachment
parenting
and child-led learning (especially for developmental issues like weaning and
potty training), so we naturally fell into an unschool philosophy of
education. >>


Cindy,
Your post was very good, and I really didn't think it was too long at
all. You brought up alot of very good issues, so it was very interesting. I
am glad that you took the time to write about it all.
My husband has always been very wonderful also. We have been married
for 19 years, and he has been very supportive in my staying at home, the
attachment parenting issues (except that he encouraged them to try to make it
through the night in their own room after they turned 2. If they woke up and
joined us later, that was ok), and even homeschooling. He was much more laid
back about discipline when they were small (we never even heard of attachment
parenting when our children were small. We had them sleep with us, I nursed
and cuddled, we kept them with us almost constantly, and we didn't use
babysitters----because that is what our instincts had us to do. We only
learned many years later that there was a term for it, and not only that, but
that there was alot more to it. By then our youngest was already 5 years
old. I wished I had heard and read some of the books by Sears way back when
my oldest was born!) Anyway, I was raised by very, very strict parents who
believed in yelling and spanking. Unfortunately, I was encouraged by my
family and friends to do the same thing with my kids. It was always my
husband who would say "Now Tami, they are just being kids. Calm down and
quit being so upset. That is why I don't understand the change that has come
over him in the last year. Now HE is the one yelling all the time. He yells
at me and the kids. I have tried to find out if something is bothering him,
and he just says that it is the way we are all living. He can't stand us
sleeping late or staying up late. He is also bothered by the fact that the
17 year old hasn't made "big plans" for his future. He says that he doesn't
agree with this "attachment parenting" and "gentle discipline" crap, that
what these kids need are a good shaking up and a spanking. He says that they
don't mind unless he screams at them. The thing is that the kids are NOT
being bad at all. They don't usually smart off (unless he screams and yells
and goads them into it). They are very well behaved kids, and other people
are always complimenting me on their behavior. I just don't understand the
change in him at all. I am wondering if it is because they are all older
now? The youngest will be 8 in just a few weeks, one just turned 11, one
will be 14 in December, and the oldest will turn 18 in February.
We have had struggles over the unschooling. Our oldest was in public
school until he turned 13. We started homeschooling in 8th grade, and we
started off using KONOS. It didn't take long, until I realized just How much
public school had damaged him (there had been two cases of verbal and mental
abuse by teachers that my son had endured for a year, that I had no idea was
going on). Both of us were burned out, and I just happened to stumble across
some books by John Holt and then later Grace Llewellyn. That was like a door
opening and letting sunshine into our lives!!! I think all four of my kids
have thrived by unschooling, but my husband is very, very worried (and so our
my parents, and I have to admit that at times, they can even get me worried
when they keep going on and on about it) because my 17 year old doesn't want
to have ANYTHING to do with anything that even resembles school.
My dh thinks it is because I am not "forcing" him to do Algebra, English,
Biology etc.
I think it is because he got burned out by public school, and that he will do
those subjects if he decides he need them for something. The only problem
is, that my son has no idea what he wants. In a big way, I understand.
Heck, I had no idea what I wanted to do when I graduated either, and I went
to public school! My son only knows that he loves anything to do with Star
Wars and Star Trek (or other Science Fiction or Fantasy, but those two are
his favorite) and he loves playing Nintendo 64 and getting on the internet.
My husband says this is not enough, and he is pushing him for more! Right
now, my son is working for his Eagle award for Boy Scouts and is very
involved in our church. He really says that he would LOVE being a youth
minister. However, I have told him that this involves college, and that he
would probably need to prepare if that is the case, and he ISN"T motivated at
all. As a matter of fact, he still hasn't studied for the written test to
get his drivers permit, and look how long he has had for that! He wants his
drivers license, he just doesn't want to have to WORK for it. So maybe there
is some truth in what my husband says? Maybe I am not pushing enough? I do
get very confused. I truly believe in unschooling, but it has been over 4
years since he got out of public school and he is still not motivated to do
anything!
Oh well, this all came about, because I am very, very confused about the
change in attitude from my husband. I have even wondered if he has some type
of illness that is causing these changes in him (I know that some types of
cancers or debilitating illnesses can also cause mood changes). I am really
at wits end and very worried about our marriage. I don't understand this,
and I don't want to give up unschooling my kids, or give up my ideals of how
to bring up my children (no spanking or forcing), because all of a sudden my
husband has done a complete turn around! I am confused, desperate, and
praying for answers!
Tami

[email protected]

In a message dated 9/20/99 8:50:20 PM, FreeSchool@... writes:

<<It was always my husband who would say "Now Tami, they are just being
kids. Calm down and quit being so upset. That is why I don't understand the
change that has come over him in the last year. Now HE is the one yelling
all the time. He yells at me and the kids. I have tried to find out if
something is bothering him, and he just says that it is the way we are all
living. He can't stand us sleeping late or staying up late. He is also
bothered by the fact that the 17 year old hasn't made "big plans" for his
future. He says that he doesn't agree with this "attachment parenting" and
"gentle discipline" crap, that what these kids need are a good shaking up and
a spanking. He says that they don't mind unless he screams at them. The
thing is that the kids are NOT being bad at all. They don't usually smart
off (unless he screams and yells and goads them into it). They are very well
behaved kids, and other people are always complimenting me on their behavior.
I just don't understand the change in him at all. I am wondering if it is
because they are all older now? >>

You are right, this really does sound like a substantial personality change
on the part of your husband. Is he experiencing a lot of stress? Otherwise,
it could be depression. (It could be both stress and depression.)
Depression doesn't make everyone apathetic, it makes some people extremely
grouchy.

I try, but don't always succeed, to remember that when someone is acting
unlovable, it probably means they need *more* love and consideration.
Sometimes we parents, DADS as well as moms, sacrifice so much of our energy,
time and peace that we obliterate our own selves. Now that your children are
past the needy baby and toddler age, it might mean a lot to your spouse if
his needs, wishes and preferences were made as important (maybe temporarily
more important) than those of the kids. I only say this because I think I
have gone too far in this direction. Our life revolves so much around my son
and his illness that my husband's needs get almost completely ignored. But,
it would help me a lot if my husband would *speak up more* and *have some
ideas* about what would make him happy. It certainly stinks when dad is
unhappy and thinks fairness means everyone else should be unhappy, too.

Best wishes,
Betsy

[email protected]

In a message dated 9/21/99 11:05:23 AM Central Daylight Time,
ECSamHill@... writes:

<< You are right, this really does sound like a substantial personality
change
on the part of your husband. Is he experiencing a lot of stress?
Otherwise,
it could be depression. (It could be both stress and depression.)
Depression doesn't make everyone apathetic, it makes some people extremely
grouchy.
>>


Betsy,
You know, this idea has occurred to me and my husband. We joked about
the idea that if he took one of those tests right now (you know, where they
rate all the stressful things that have happened to you in one year, to see
how you would rate on being stressed out?), that he would probably be at the
top of the chart.
Lets see, he changed jobs (after 17 yrs), we moved to a new home (after
9 years), his grandmother died, something very major happened to our minister
at church (he had been there 18 years), my dad had a cancerous tumor removed,
I started a new in-home business, a close friend (whose husband left her for
another woman over a year ago) had to go back to work so we now have her two
children for a major part of the time, another close friend left her husband
and child for a man she met over the internet, we bought a brand new van (big
purchase---also this computer :)---that could be stressful too) and I could
go on and on. No wonder he is stressed out! We all should be! I think we
all need some down time, and he and I could use some alone time! :)
Tami