Joseph Fuerst

On the nature vs. nurture question about 'messiness', I go strongly with
nature over nurture as the origin. I do, however, believe nurture has an
effect. Even perhaps that the nurture part (over which parents have a
strong influence) needs to accomodate for the nature of the person. I have
the 'messy gene' as does my hubby. During her toddlerhood, my now 6 yr old
seemed born organized....maybe we influenced it out of her, but she's
totally a messy one now! LOL
I am a Flybaby, too. Since August 2001. I worked the program...down to
the shoes...through October. I felt like Wonder Woman! The diffeerence in
our house was not the only noticable difference. My parental stress level
was diminished immensely. The time we saved looking for shoes, socks,
hairbrushes, clothes was totally amazing. No more yelling mom when we had
to go somewhere. In true SHE fashion, I began to take on too many other
responsibilities including handmaking five Halloween costumes. Mind you,
I not only didn't own a sewing machine before this, but completely learned
sewing on my own! And the old machine I bpought needed to be taken out and
tuned up! I hosted a great first birthday party for my son's halloween
birthday, and had several out-of town guests for the weekend of his party.
It was as if Martha Stewart herself had possesed my being! I baked and
decorated the cakes and catered the weekend. On top of that - my three yr
old, caught up in the excitement of a visit from her out of town cousins,
crashed into a corner and split her head wide open. This crisis was handled
quite smoothly. Flylady's program had gotten me so far that it was NO
problem to save my bllod stained shirt...I had a clean one right there ready
to go (This is quite a major coup for one such as I!!) The weekend went so
smoothly! And halloween was a Wednesday. I invited all the neighborhood
kidlets to my house 1/2 hour before trick or treat to have home baked
cookies and sing to my son. I got through all this well. BUT, by mid Nov
ember, I had worn out my shoes from wearing them every day and couldn't
find a pair to fit my wide feet. I quit the shoes....and things have
unraveled a bit from there, my son stopped sleeping through the night, I
couldn't darg myself out of bed for the routines. I fell back to Fly baby
(thought I had reached fly toddlerhood). And have remained at the beginning
point since. I've still progressed a lot. But it's a struggle now.
What I've noticed in my life is that while I'm quite capable of
organizing thoughts and ideas, I have not experienced the ability to manage
the "basics" of maintaining an organizational system. I can GET things
organized, but not maintain them. BUT, I function better in an organized
environment. I think it may be why some people think they need school - it
provides a routine and structure within which they can function.
For me, I want to provide the type of environment which will enable my
children to thrive (FLY?). Flylady has helped decrease our stress and
increase the fun in our household.
Susan
>
> Mimi;
> I"ve been 'flying' for almost a year now and trust me I am STILL a
flybaby!! I STILL dont do everything..but that is why this has worked for
me; I am taking it very slow, true life change does not happen overnight,
but what I have changed so far has 'kept' for the entire year..
>
> My biggest 'pat on the back' was from my mom; she came up to visit and
walked in and her first words were "Wow, this is incredible! I cannot
believe how clean your house is!"
>
> It was bliss =)
>
> Nichoel
>
> Fertility Friend Online Support Guide
> Now you CAN conceive online..
> www.fertilityfriend.com/sm/21749/
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Alan Moorehead
> To: [email protected]
> Sent: Tuesday, January 01, 2002 8:11 PM
> Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] even finer?
>
>
> Hi Nichoel,
>
> I'm still a Flybaby, but I think it will work for me too if I stick with
> it and give it a good try. When she starts talking about CHAOS and
> being a perfectionist, etc., I feel like she's talking about me. I
> relate to what she says very well.
>
> Mimi
>
> On Tuesday, January 1, 2002, at 03:23 PM, Nichoel wrote:
>
> > Flylady is a God-send for me...
> >
> > My house is so much cleaner, my family more relaxed..and I spend LESS
> > time cleaning now than I did before (I still havent figured out how
> > that works..)
> >
> > I really believe her system works if you work it =)
> >
> > Nichoel
> >
> > Fertility Friend Online Support Guide
> > Now you CAN conceive online..
> > www.fertilityfriend.com/sm/21749/
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Alan Moorehead
> > To: [email protected]
> > Sent: Tuesday, January 01, 2002 1:14 PM
> > Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] even finer?
> >
> >
> > Thanks!!! I'll check it out right now. There's no way I'll share
> > pictures of the inside of our house. It's just too embarrassing.
> > Today's the first day of a new year - I'm trying to get a handle on
> > things and make this place more presentable. Are you familiar with
> > FLYLADY? I get her reminders all day long and I try to follow her
> > instructions as best as I can.
> >
> > Mimi
> >
> > On Tuesday, January 1, 2002, at 03:06 PM, Sarah Carothers wrote:
> >
> >> Glad to help!
> >> I'd give you the link but it is at a place you get to once you've
> >> entered your yahoo name and password.
> >> SO... go to http://www.yahoogroups.com
> >> you will probably have to sign in... maybe not (it's the same name
> >> you created to join this list at yahoo).
> >> Then, once you've signed in, on the left of the screen is a list of
> >> groups you belong to..... click on the unschoolingdotcom one.
> >> Next, on the left of that screen will be a list of things... members,
> >> posts, calendar, photos, etc..... click on "photos".
> >> You'll then see a screen where anybody can create a photo album for
> >> the group. I've created my family one (carothers)... click on
> >> carothers. You can choose how to view by some options over on the
> >> right side of your screen. If you need help, let me know..
> >> sarah
> >> ~xx~ ~xx~ ~xx~
> >> Sarah Carothers
> >> puddles@...
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >>
> >>
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> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2002 22:33:56 -0600
> From: Alan Moorehead <groundhoggirl@...>
> Subject: Re: Re: chores/routines WAS: grandparents
>
> I agree. DON'T BUY ANY MORE ORANGES until he learns how to peel them
> himself!!!!
>
> Mimi
>
>
> On Tuesday, January 1, 2002, at 05:27 AM, aelanmichael@... wrote:
>
> > In a message dated 12/31/01 1:13:17 AM Pacific Standard Time,
> > [email protected] writes:
> >
> > << > I can't help but wonder... his mother and grandmother were clean
> >> freaks... so he was getting the modeling there... BUT what happened? >>
> >
> >
> > What happened is that he was taught that WOMEN cleaned
> > up these messes, not men. My husband (Korean) was brought
> > up the very same way as your husband. In his home, men never
> > lifted a finger. From the moment they walked through the door, to
> > the moment they left the house, the women waited on them hand
> > and foot. Food was brought to them, and dirty dishes were taken
> > away and washed. They would dump dirty clothes on the floor and
> > the clothes were scooped up by the women, washed, folded and put
> > back into drawers. When hubby needed new underwear, his Mom
> > ran out and bought them for him (this was when he was 25!!). At
> > dinner, if his drink was almost finished, she would jump up to refill
> > it for him before it was empty. Same with his rice bowl. His mother
> > always cut up the meat for her husband so he wouldn't have to be
> > bothered cutting his own meat. She also took the bones out of fish
> > for him, again, so he could eat without having to work at it. The men
> > did NOTHING *in* the house!!
> >
> > It has taken YEARS for me to get my husband to help around the
> > house. When we were living with his parents, they would literally
> > scold him whenever he tried to help me out accusing me of being
> > a very lazy wife for not doing EVERYTHING for him.
> >
> > One time, they literally jumped down my throat because I refused
> > to peel oranges for him, section them and present them to him on
> > a plate. I figured, he's a grown man, he can peel his own oranges!
> > Nope, we've had whole boxes of mandarin oranges go bad because
> > he refused to peel them himself. So, I've just quit buying oranges.
> >
> > I could go on and on,,,but I'm sure you get the picture.
> >
> > Andrea Kim :-)
> > Mommy to two sweeties!
> > Laura (almost 6!!) and Allison (2)
> > Kent, WA,,,,soon to be Seattle!
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
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> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 9
> Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2002 22:35:53 -0600
> From: Alan Moorehead <groundhoggirl@...>
> Subject: Re: Sweets YES/Sugar NO!
>
> I buy "Horizon" organic heavy whipping cream. It's out of this world!!!
>
> Mimi
>
>
> On Tuesday, January 1, 2002, at 01:18 AM, Lynda wrote:
>
> > Well, if nothing else in the world will convert folks to organic, it is
> > organic heavy cream whipped with organic maple syrup!
> >
> > Folks really don't know what whipped cream is anymore.
> >
> > I challenge y'all to read the label on that can of RediWhip or even the
> > carton of "Joe's Local Dairy" whipping cream.
> >
> > Then buy a carton of organic/no BGH/no other garbage, pure heavy cream
> > and
> > whip it. You'll be hooked for life!
> >
> > Lynda
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Kolleen" <Kolleen@...>
> > To: "Unschooling.com" <[email protected]>
> > Sent: Monday, December 31, 2001 3:23 PM
> > Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Sweets YES/Sugar NO!
> >
> >
> >>> So Kolleen, is your house sugar free? What sweets do you mean when
> >>> you
> >>> say sweets yes.
> >>>
> >>> Pat
> >>
> >>
> >> Yes, my house is processed sugar-free.
> >>
> >> There's something called 'Sundrops' which are dead ringers for M&Ms.
> >>
> >> We have cookies (some flavoured with organic cane juice, some with
> >> fruit
> >> juice)
> >>
> >> Ice cream is organic cane juice sweetened or honey sweetened.
> >>
> >> I remember making whipped cream for the kid's first b'day cake with
> >> organic heavy cream and maple syrup.
> >>
> >> Peelu is the gum I buy that is sweetened with malt sugars (I think, I
> >> don't have a pack on me to look it up).
> >>
> >> Lollipops with malt sugar or honey. And Jellybeans with malt sugar or
> >> fruit juice.
> >>
> >> Jellos and puddings are also available.
> >>
> >> And there's a great line of honey sweetened cereals available now.
> >>
> >> On *rare* occasion when we're away or out and about, my son wants
> >> 'bubble
> >> gum', since the Peelu is minty and he thinks is too spicy. So then, and
> >> only then, we buy Bazooka. Yes, Bazooka. It has refinded sugar BUT it
> >> doesn't have a lot of the other crap that a lot of gums have. And it
> >> doesn't have aspartme (sp) which is deadlier than refinded sugar.
> >>
> >> Keeping these treats in my purse, or in a goodie backpack that we drag
> >> around, is a great way to keep outside influences from making my son
> >> feel
> >> slighted.
> >>
> >> TV advertisements does make it hard on me. BUT, luckily the health food
> >> community has come FAR from the 'wheatgrass only' days and now we can
> >> get
> >> some yogurt squeezies (Stonyfield) and some ice pops and *almost*
> >> everything else that is marketed towards children sans the junky
> >> chemicals.
> >>
> >> I have no problems when he goes into the goodie drawer (the
> >> ex-big-bread
> >> drawer) and takes what he wants.
> >>
> >> regards,
> >> kolleen
> >>
> >>
> >> Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
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> >>
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> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
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>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 10
> Date: Tue, 1 Jan 02 23:36:50 -0500
> From: Kolleen <Kolleen@...>
> Subject: Re: sweets-YES/sugar- NO
>
> >I still go with the every - body's individual and has individual needs
> >in this area.
> >Susan
>
>
> Agreed here Susan, to each and every body is its own barometer.
>
> If one has an insulin problem, then any kind of sugar, slow or fast
> acting would be a detriment to the body.
>
> >.sugar is sugar is sugar, organic or not,
> >your body still reacts with the same hormones, etc.
>
> Refined sugar IS more addictive than honey or molasses or fruit sugar. If
> there is evidence otherwise, I would welcome it.
>
> If one doesn't have an insulin problem, then the choice would be to go
> towards the natural way, not the processed way. An insulin problem person
> must limit more than just sugar. They need to limit fruit and other food
> intake.
>
> In "extended" family, I am an organic household, so is one of my sisters.
> My other two sisters are not. My niece is not. (she's just a few years
> younger than I and has more children)
>
> The organic families have choices for the kids, no limits. They will
> invariably ask for something to 'eat' when they are hungry. As opposed to
> just go into the cabinet for a nosh when wanting *something*.
>
> The processed food families seem to have to limit their children, cajole
> them to 'eat' food and oversee their intake on their choices.
>
> Establishing that none of the children spoken of have an insulin problem
> (as of yet). I say that because processed sugar addictions is a
> *possible* reason that a genetically disposed child would develop an
> insulin problem (research is still being done, so no facts yet on this
> issue).
>
> regards,
> kolleen
>
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 11
> Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2002 23:50:48 -0500
> From: Sarah Carothers <puddles@...>
> Subject: Re: chores/routines WAS: grandparents
>
> On Tue, 1 Jan 2002 20:05:34 -0500, Pat Cald... wrote:
>
> >I've given a lot of thought to what you and the others have been
> >telling me over the past few days and we have made some changes
> >around here. I will no longer be in charge of bed time. They know
> >when they are tired and will go to bed if given control. The reason
> >we started a bed time routine was to encourage time for quiet
> >reading. When I discussed this with the girls today, my older one
> >said she can't go to sleep unless she has her reading time so she
> >will always fit that in. My younger one said she can't read at
> >night because she is usually too tired. She said she would rather
> >read in the morning. My husband was afraid they would stay up too
> >late and keep us awake. We agreed that we were to respect each
> >others need to go to bed at different times. I will continue to
> >think about what areas I may still be trying to control things and
> >give that up, thanks for sharing your thoughts.
> >
> >Pat
>
>
>
> I'm so glad for you, Pat. The changes sound good and I think you'll
> all be happy. Be aware, though... you kids may test you since this is
> all so new. Don't be surprised if your dd decides to stay up half the
> night just to make *sure* you really meant what you said! Stick to
> your word and I truly believe it'll be fine. She won't do that long
> if she does it at all.
> I'd love to know how it goes... keep us posted!
> ~xx~ ~xx~ ~xx~
> Sarah Carothers
> puddles@...
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 12
> Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2002 22:00:05 -0800
> From: "Lynda" <lurine@...>
> Subject: Re: even finer?
>
> One should do what one gets the most enjoyment or fulfillment from. If
> becoming a doctor or a teacher is what makes one feel complete, go for it.
> If one feels a sense of having done a good job by being a garbage man or a
> dishwasher, good for them. If one simply wants to make some money so that
> one can relax and enjoy life, go for it, who are they hurting?
>
> All this keeping up with the Jones stuff is bunk! IMHO, of course <g>
>
> Lynda
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <lite2yu@...>
> >
> > Is there something wrong with this? Is it "better" to be a "hard worker"
> and
> > get more done. . . is it better to be a doctor or teacher than a garbage
> man
> > or a dishwasher? Personally, I think relaxing is a lot more fun than
> working
> > really hard. :)
> >
> > living in abundance
> > lovemary
> >
> > The love that you withhold is the pain that you carry - from lifetime
> > to lifetime.
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
> > Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
> > Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com
> >
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> >
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> >
> >
> >
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http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 13
> Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2002 22:19:52 -0800
> From: "Lynda" <lurine@...>
> Subject: Re: even finer?
>
> O.K., it isn't clutter! It is that very unique VIP filing system. That
> would be VeryImportantPiles. And we aren't pack rats. We are frugal.
> Someday all of those very good things will be needed once again! <g>
>
> Lynda
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Sarah Carothers" <puddles@...>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Tuesday, January 01, 2002 1:47 PM
> Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] even finer?
>
>
> > I'm familiar with flylady... I have a friend who has a problem with
> > clutter and she follows her advice. I think she's made some progress
> > but imo something like that (being a pack rat or clutter keeper or
> > whatever) is such a hard thing to undo in your makeup. I'm a pack
> > rat... keep everything except old emails! But I've learned to
> > categorize stuff and put it away in an orderly fashion.
> > And no, no pics of the inside of my house either! It's so dirty (who
> > mentioned cobwebs???!! lol.. I can relate). I'm doing good just to
> > vacuum up all the pet hair.
> > btw, two dogs.. not three (how did you count three? Or did the kids
> > snick one in on me and I've just not noticed?) <g>
> > Thanks for the compliments on the pics!
> > Sarah
> > ~xx~ ~xx~ ~xx~
> > Sarah Carothers
> > puddles@...
> >
> >
> > On Tue, 1 Jan 2002 15:14:22 -0600, Alan Moorehead wrote:
> > > Thanks!!! I'll check it out right now. There's no way I'll
> > >share
> > >pictures of the inside of our house. It's just too embarrassing.
> > >Today's the first day of a new year - I'm trying to get a handle on
> > >things and make this place more presentable. Are you familiar with
> > >FLYLADY? I get her reminders all day long and I try to follow her
> > >instructions as best as I can.
> > >
> > >Mimi
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
> > Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
> > Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com
> >
> > To unsubscribe, set preferences, or read archives:
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Unschooling-dotcom
> >
> > Another great list sponsored by Home Education Magazine!
> > http://www.home-ed-magazine.com
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
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