Kolleen

>Pat wrote:
>I think it is good for them to learn some sort of routine. I used to call
>them chores and my dd told me not to because then she would not want to do
>them, so now I call it the morning routine. I think the morning routine
>has been positive because ever since we started it, I no longer say their
>friends can't come in because the house was too messy. I wish my mom had
>helped me learn to be neat. It has taken a lot of time for me to teach
>myself anyway that is another story.


I think Pat brings up a good issue. The issue of messiness. Is it nature
or nurture, I wonder????

My son's father is from an eastern mediteranean country (grew up here)
and his mother and albanian speaking only grandmother did EVERYTHING for
him. The two younger sisters were taught how to keep house.

I mean EVERYTHING. At the *tender* age of 25 when the family went away
without him, he tells me how he went out to buy new underwear because he
ran out.

When I lived alone and he used to come visit, he used to remark about
dishes being in my sink and how *he* would of never have that if he lived
alone *LMAO* Neglecting to mention that I was working 3 jobs at the time.

Fast-forward to ONE of the *biggest* reasons I left him, was the unending
slovenly acts. I mean MORE than sloppy (about everything but himself).

I came back after two years and all my good china, untensils and dishes
were thrown in the garbage. I asked him what happened and he said that he
left them in the sink for over six months and they turned black and he
threw them out.

My sister aptly described the bathroom as that of looking like a gas
station on the cross bronx expressway.

I can't help but wonder... his mother and grandmother were clean
freaks... so he was getting the modeling there... BUT what happened? I
mean, the sloppiness is beyond your wildest imagination.. and of course
it puts undue pressure on me... but thats besides the point...

And when the house is clean, he says it doesn't make a difference to him
one way or another.. which gives him carte blanche in his head to mess it
and not respect the time and effort it takes to clean it up. (I blame his
parents for this <<<vbg>>>>)

So sloppiness.. is it nature or nurture.. should we as unschoolers model
the cleaning and *hope* my situation is a fluke of unnatural proportions
or should we, heaven forbid, *force* it upon our children...

thoughts anyone?


regards,
kolleen

rumpleteasermom

--- In Unschooling-dotcom@y..., Kolleen <Kolleen@m...> wrote:

> I think Pat brings up a good issue. The issue of messiness. Is it
nature
> or nurture, I wonder????


NATURE - definitely!!!! My dad was the worlds biggest pack-rat. No
amount of my mom's influence could change that. (Someone recently
called my mom a minimalist - as in minimal stuff in her house. It
fits. Now why didn't I get some of HER genes???)

Bridget

Sarah Carothers

I'll vote Nature.
dh is a mess. dd #1 is a mess and just like dh. DD#2 is like me... a tidy up but not too much freak. I've tried to change the behavior of dd #1 but nothing works. I know that dh was raised in a very sterile environment and everything was organized... he's the total opposite.
Maybe it has to do with rebellion?
Sarah
----- Original Message -----
From: Kolleen
To: Unschooling.com

I think Pat brings up a good issue. The issue of messiness. Is it nature
or nurture, I wonder????



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Kolleen

>NATURE - definitely!!!! My dad was the worlds biggest pack-rat. No
>amount of my mom's influence could change that. (Someone recently
>called my mom a minimalist - as in minimal stuff in her house. It
>fits. Now why didn't I get some of HER genes???)
>
>Bridget


Your mom would of gotten him too late *smile*

How did HIS parents model messiness or packrattiness?


I'm curious


regards,
kolleen

Lynda

He was raised to be narcistic which is a whole other story.

I think all folks are 1/3 genetics, 1/3 environment and 1/3 just plain them.
You can model away to your heart's content and some will follow your example
and some won't and there won't a blessed thing you can do about unless you
are fond of gray hairs and then you can worry about it.

Everyone is an individual and some folks are just gonna be different.

Lynda
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kolleen" <Kolleen@...>
To: "Unschooling.com" <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2001 6:22 PM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] chores/routines WAS: grandparents


> >Pat wrote:
> >I think it is good for them to learn some sort of routine. I used to call
> >them chores and my dd told me not to because then she would not want to
do
> >them, so now I call it the morning routine. I think the morning routine
> >has been positive because ever since we started it, I no longer say their
> >friends can't come in because the house was too messy. I wish my mom had
> >helped me learn to be neat. It has taken a lot of time for me to teach
> >myself anyway that is another story.
>
>
> I think Pat brings up a good issue. The issue of messiness. Is it nature
> or nurture, I wonder????
>
> My son's father is from an eastern mediteranean country (grew up here)
> and his mother and albanian speaking only grandmother did EVERYTHING for
> him. The two younger sisters were taught how to keep house.
>
> I mean EVERYTHING. At the *tender* age of 25 when the family went away
> without him, he tells me how he went out to buy new underwear because he
> ran out.
>
> When I lived alone and he used to come visit, he used to remark about
> dishes being in my sink and how *he* would of never have that if he lived
> alone *LMAO* Neglecting to mention that I was working 3 jobs at the time.
>
> Fast-forward to ONE of the *biggest* reasons I left him, was the unending
> slovenly acts. I mean MORE than sloppy (about everything but himself).
>
> I came back after two years and all my good china, untensils and dishes
> were thrown in the garbage. I asked him what happened and he said that he
> left them in the sink for over six months and they turned black and he
> threw them out.
>
> My sister aptly described the bathroom as that of looking like a gas
> station on the cross bronx expressway.
>
> I can't help but wonder... his mother and grandmother were clean
> freaks... so he was getting the modeling there... BUT what happened? I
> mean, the sloppiness is beyond your wildest imagination.. and of course
> it puts undue pressure on me... but thats besides the point...
>
> And when the house is clean, he says it doesn't make a difference to him
> one way or another.. which gives him carte blanche in his head to mess it
> and not respect the time and effort it takes to clean it up. (I blame his
> parents for this <<<vbg>>>>)
>
> So sloppiness.. is it nature or nurture.. should we as unschoolers model
> the cleaning and *hope* my situation is a fluke of unnatural proportions
> or should we, heaven forbid, *force* it upon our children...
>
> thoughts anyone?
>
>
> regards,
> kolleen
>
>
> Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
> Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com
>
> To unsubscribe, set preferences, or read archives:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Unschooling-dotcom
>
> Another great list sponsored by Home Education Magazine!
> http://www.home-ed-magazine.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

rumpleteasermom

--- In Unschooling-dotcom@y..., Kolleen <Kolleen@m...> wrote:

>
> Your mom would of gotten him too late *smile*
>
> How did HIS parents model messiness or packrattiness?
>
>
> I'm curious
>
>
> regards,
> kolleen


From what little I remember of my Grandparents, they were messy pack-
ratty people too.
Now my mom's family on the other hand had 3 adults (occassionally
more) and seven kids crammed into a house with two decent sized
bedrooms and two itty-bitty tiny ones. There wasn't room to be messy
there!

Bridget

Alan Moorehead

>> The issue of messiness. Is it nature
>> or nurture, I wonder????
>>
>> My son's father is from an eastern mediteranean country (grew up here)
>> and his mother and albanian speaking only grandmother did EVERYTHING
>> for
>> him. The two younger sisters were taught how to keep house.
>>
>> I mean EVERYTHING. At the *tender* age of 25 when the family went away
>> without him, he tells me how he went out to buy new underwear because
>> he
>> ran out.
>>
>> I can't help but wonder... his mother and grandmother were clean
>> freaks... so he was getting the modeling there... BUT what happened? I
>> mean, the sloppiness is beyond your wildest imagination.. and of course
>> it puts undue pressure on me... but thats besides the point...
>>
>> And when the house is clean, he says it doesn't make a difference to
>> him
>> one way or another.. which gives him carte blanche in his head to mess
>> it
>> and not respect the time and effort it takes to clean it up. (I blame
>> his
>> parents for this <<<vbg>>>>)
>>
>> So sloppiness.. is it nature or nurture.. should we as unschoolers
>> model
>> the cleaning and *hope* my situation is a fluke of unnatural
>> proportions
>> or should we, heaven forbid, *force* it upon our children...
>>
>> thoughts anyone?
>>
>>
>> regards,
>> kolleen
>>
Hi Kolleen,

You mentioned this man was brought up in Albanian household. Don't you
think that their CULTURE and his parents' expectations of him played a
part in his sloppiness? I suspect that while his grandmother, mother
and sisters were keeping the house and doing all the work, the
grandfather, father and uncles were sitting around smoking cigarettes,
drinking ouzo and playing tavli (backgammon)! I believe your son's
father was paying closer attention to his male relatives' modeling
rather than the women's. He was identifying with the men - not the
women.

As the daughter of a Greek father and having had quite a lot of contact
with Greek culture, I know that in many Greek families the sons are not
expected to do as much of the housework (if any at all) as the
daughters are.

If you look at a map you'll see Albania shares a border with Greece.
I've had contact with 2 Albanian families and they were not very
different from the Greeks.
From what you write, I have the impression he grew up in a household
where the men gave very little respect to the women or the work they did
and basically treated them like slaves. That's probably why he turned
out the way he did. He could be as sloppy as he wanted to be because
there was always a pretty, nice, quiet, little Albanian woman/girl
cleaning up after him.

I used to go to the Greek Festival here in Houston every October. I
haven't gone in years because it disgusted me to see all the women doing
ALL the work and the men just standing around doing nothing except maybe
pour a glass or retsina or two. And, of course, it's the men that take
all the credit.

Greek men (probably Albanians too) are wonderful lovers, but I would
NEVER want to marry one!!

The blood flowing through my boys' veins is a beautiful mixture of many
different ethnic groups - the largest portion (25%) of which is Greek.
My boys seem to identify with me as much as they do with their father -
but we are an American family - not an Eastern Mediterranean family in
which the roles of men and women are much more defined.

In our house I do about 75% of the housework. I'm basically a slob and
so is my husband, but I'm trying to change that. When I do housework, I
make sure my boys see me doing it. It's amazing how often they want to
jump in and help. I rarely force them to do anything. My husband will
make them pick up their room once in a while.

One VERY good thing my mother did with my siblings and I is that she
never made us do chores. She often said "you're a child only once and
you'll have your whole life to work". Where I think she went wrong
was she did all her housework while we were in school. I hardly ever
remember SEEING her clean. I'd SEE her make dinner (and she's a
wonderful trained chef), so I learned a lot about cooking just by
watching her. My mother wasn't the best housekeeper, but at least she
didn't have cobwebs hanging from the ceiling like I do.

Mimi
>>
>> Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
>> Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com
>>
>> To unsubscribe, set preferences, or read archives:
>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Unschooling-dotcom
>>
>> Another great list sponsored by Home Education Magazine!
>> http://www.home-ed-magazine.com
>>
>>
>>
>> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
>> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>>
>>
>
>
> Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
> Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com
>
> To unsubscribe, set preferences, or read archives:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Unschooling-dotcom
>
> Another great list sponsored by Home Education Magazine!
> http://www.home-ed-magazine.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Lorraine Goods

On Tue, 1 Jan 2002, Alan Moorehead wrote:

> One VERY good thing my mother did with my siblings and I is that she
> never made us do chores. She often said "you're a child only once and
> you'll have your whole life to work".

I find it so interesting how our own experiences as children influence our
individual parenting styles. One of the very good things my folks did was
have me and my siblings do daily/weekly chores from the age of seven on.
Cleaning, running errands etc. Straightening up became as ingrained to us
as, say, brushing your teeth before bed, or taking a shower in the
morning. I appreciate that structure. I've also found that it's much
easier to keep a house looking neat if just a little bit of maintenance is
done every day. Obviously, this isn't so appealing to a lot of people but
it's one of the things I look back fondly on about my childhood.

Best,
Lynn

Pat Cald...

Mimi wrote:
>One VERY good thing my mother did with my siblings and I is that she
never made us do chores. She often said "you're a child only once and
you'll have your whole life to work". Where I think she went wrong
was she did all her housework while we were in school. I hardly ever
remember SEEING her clean. I'd SEE her make dinner (and she's a
wonderful trained chef), so I learned a lot about cooking just by
watching her. My mother wasn't the best housekeeper, but at least she
>didn't have cobwebs hanging from the ceiling like I do.

This is fine if the mother doesn't mind doing all the work . I think it was especially good that your mother gave you an understanding of why you were not helping out. A few of my relatives do not ask their children to do anything. These children are very poor house guests. One 9 year old boy, when asked by his 70 year old grandmother if he could possibly get something for her, said "why don't you get it". Also when children come over to our house to play, my kids ask them to help clean up before they leave, some are very resistant because they do not think it is their responsibility or they just don't know what to do. You mentioned that your children are very helpful so it does not sound like it is a problem at your house. I wonder what the difference is with my relative?

Pat

We look at chores in two ways at our house. One way is to share in the work load so there is more time for everyone to spend together. The other way is to learn life skills. We have a long list of things that the girls should need to learn by the time they leave the house. They include things like checking air pressure in car tires and other household maintenance items that they will need to know. So other than taking care of their own things - bedroom, animals, etc. they choose a chore that they would like to learn and then do that chore for a few weeks until they feel they have mastered it. They then choose another chore.




Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
ADVERTISEMENT




Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com

To unsubscribe, set preferences, or read archives:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Unschooling-dotcom

Another great list sponsored by Home Education Magazine!
http://www.home-ed-magazine.com



Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sarah Carothers

On Tue, 1 Jan 2002 18:06:13 -0500, Pat Cald... wrote:
>
>This is fine if the mother doesn't mind doing all the work . I
>think it was especially good that your mother gave you an
>understanding of why you were not helping out. A few of my
>relatives do not ask their children to do anything. These
>children are very poor house guests. One 9 year old boy, when
>asked by his 70 year old grandmother if he could possibly get
>something for her, said "why don't you get it". Also when
>children come over to our house to play, my kids ask them to
>help clean up before they leave, some are very resistant
>because they do not think it is their responsibility or they
>just don't know what to do. You mentioned that your children
>are very helpful so it does not sound like it is a problem at
>your house. I wonder what the difference is with my relative?
>
>Pat
>

Dear Pat,
I don't know what the difference is but I, too, would probably lean
more toward not giving lots of chores for the kids to do. Now,
granted... I *do* have a few rules/chores...
oldest dd cleans litter
youngest vacuums
EVERYbody puts up their dirty dishes
EVERYbody does their own laundry
EVERYbody carries in groceries (that one's hard to enforce for some
reason)
So basically, I don't have a chore list for them to follow; we just
have respect(?) for everyone else and take care of our own stuff.
Are my kids great house guests? You can bet your last dollar they
are! (and that's not just a proud mom talking)
I've been thinking about it as I've read this thread and it just
seems like *everything* that is mandatory is almost always dreaded.
Further, that dislike carries over into adulthood. I'll bet my oldest
will never own cats again. I'll bet my youngest won't ever vacuum...
she'll probably even have hardwood floors just to avoid it! I don't
think anybody likes being told what to do so if there's a way to view
these tasks that need doing as something rather than chores, I
believe that's the approach to take.
I'm not making sense... too much sugar today.%-/
Sarah
~xx~ ~xx~ ~xx~
Sarah Carothers
puddles@...



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Pat Cald...

Hi Sarah,

You made a lot of sense. I think the key is respect. You're +not+ doing everything for your kids, they respect your time and they earn self-respect by taking care of their things and helping out. You may not call the things that are done in your house chores but your kids help out and that is all that is important.

I've given a lot of thought to what you and the others have been telling me over the past few days and we have made some changes around here. I will no longer be in charge of bed time. They know when they are tired and will go to bed if given control. The reason we started a bed time routine was to encourage time for quiet reading. When I discussed this with the girls today, my older one said she can't go to sleep unless she has her reading time so she will always fit that in. My younger one said she can't read at night because she is usually too tired. She said she would rather read in the morning. My husband was afraid they would stay up too late and keep us awake. We agreed that we were to respect each others need to go to bed at different times. I will continue to think about what areas I may still be trying to control things and give that up, thanks for sharing your thoughts.

Pat
----- Original Message -----
From: Sarah Carothers
To: [email protected]
Sent: Tuesday, January 01, 2002 6:29 PM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] chores/routines WAS: grandparents


On Tue, 1 Jan 2002 18:06:13 -0500, Pat Cald... wrote:
>
>This is fine if the mother doesn't mind doing all the work . I
>think it was especially good that your mother gave you an
>understanding of why you were not helping out. A few of my
>relatives do not ask their children to do anything. These
>children are very poor house guests. One 9 year old boy, when
>asked by his 70 year old grandmother if he could possibly get
>something for her, said "why don't you get it". Also when
>children come over to our house to play, my kids ask them to
>help clean up before they leave, some are very resistant
>because they do not think it is their responsibility or they
>just don't know what to do. You mentioned that your children
>are very helpful so it does not sound like it is a problem at
>your house. I wonder what the difference is with my relative?
>
>Pat
>

Dear Pat,
I don't know what the difference is but I, too, would probably lean
more toward not giving lots of chores for the kids to do. Now,
granted... I *do* have a few rules/chores...
oldest dd cleans litter
youngest vacuums
EVERYbody puts up their dirty dishes
EVERYbody does their own laundry
EVERYbody carries in groceries (that one's hard to enforce for some
reason)
So basically, I don't have a chore list for them to follow; we just
have respect(?) for everyone else and take care of our own stuff.
Are my kids great house guests? You can bet your last dollar they
are! (and that's not just a proud mom talking)
I've been thinking about it as I've read this thread and it just
seems like *everything* that is mandatory is almost always dreaded.
Further, that dislike carries over into adulthood. I'll bet my oldest
will never own cats again. I'll bet my youngest won't ever vacuum...
she'll probably even have hardwood floors just to avoid it! I don't
think anybody likes being told what to do so if there's a way to view
these tasks that need doing as something rather than chores, I
believe that's the approach to take.
I'm not making sense... too much sugar today.%-/
Sarah
~xx~ ~xx~ ~xx~
Sarah Carothers
puddles@...



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
ADVERTISEMENT




Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com

To unsubscribe, set preferences, or read archives:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Unschooling-dotcom

Another great list sponsored by Home Education Magazine!
http://www.home-ed-magazine.com



Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Alan Moorehead

On Tuesday, January 1, 2002, at 05:06 PM, Pat Cald... wrote:

> Mimi wrote:
>> One VERY good thing my mother did with my siblings and I is that she
> never made us do chores. She often said "you're a child only once and
> you'll have your whole life to work". Where I think she went wrong
> was she did all her housework while we were in school. I hardly ever
> remember SEEING her clean. I'd SEE her make dinner (and she's a
> wonderful trained chef), so I learned a lot about cooking just by
> watching her. My mother wasn't the best housekeeper, but at least she
>> didn't have cobwebs hanging from the ceiling like I do.
> ================

> This is fine if the mother doesn't mind doing all the work . I think
> it was especially good that your mother gave you an understanding of
> why you were not helping out. A few of my relatives do not ask their
> children to do anything. These children are very poor house guests.
> One 9 year old boy, when asked by his 70 year old grandmother if he
> could possibly get something for her, said "why don't you get it".
> Also when children come over to our house to play, my kids ask them to
> help clean up before they leave, some are very resistant because they
> do not think it is their responsibility or they just don't know what to
> do. You mentioned that your children are very helpful so it does not
> sound like it is a problem at your house. I wonder what the difference
> is with my relative?
>
> Pat
> ==================

Hi Pat,

Yes, sometimes I do feel like I'm doing all the work, but there are also
those times when my boys voluntarily, and on their own initiative, help
me out. I feel very rewarded when they do this. In a way, I feel
guilty about feeling this way. I haven't yet figured out why. Maybe
someone can explain it to me. I don't assign chores because that seems
to force the issue on the boys. I would like it to come from inside.

About 3 years ago, one of my sons said to me: "Why don't you get it
yourself!" I knew immediately why he said it - because I had said that
to him the day before. It sounded awful when that came out of his mouth
and probably just as bad as when it came out of mine. Ever since that
day, I try and fulfill as many of my boys' requests as possible, if I'm
able to. I see it as an opportunity to model for them. As a
consequence, they gladly do things for me. We are continually asking
things of each other. They will gladly do something for me because they
know I will gladly do things for them. It's a matter of me showing them
the respect that they show me and vice versa.

My boys are only 7 years old and continuously playing at one thing or
another. So, they certainly don't help me with everything and I don't
expect them to. But, when they ask to do something, I always say yes,
even if I know they're going to make a big mess or if I know it'll take
me 1/10th the time it'll take them to complete the job.

Today, Leroy went to play with his friend 3 doors down. I walked down
to check his blood sugar and see how he was doing. I was very
embarrassed when I walked into their very tidy and clean house to see
there laying, in the middle of their floor, Leroy's hat and coat. I
immediately asked him to pick them up and put them on the couch, which
he did. This was definitely a result of poor modeling on my part. I'm
terrible about hanging my clothes up at night. I'm usually so tired, I
usually just strip them all off and let them sit on the floor until
about mid-morning the next day, when I do the laundry.

All of us in this family, are very, very far from perfect. But, I think
we are definitely moving in the right direction.

Mimi

>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> ADVERTISEMENT
>
>
>
>
> Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
> Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com
>
> To unsubscribe, set preferences, or read archives:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Unschooling-dotcom
>
> Another great list sponsored by Home Education Magazine!
> http://www.home-ed-magazine.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
> Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com
>
> To unsubscribe, set preferences, or read archives:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Unschooling-dotcom
>
> Another great list sponsored by Home Education Magazine!
> http://www.home-ed-magazine.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sarah Carothers

On Tue, 1 Jan 2002 20:05:34 -0500, Pat Cald... wrote:

>I've given a lot of thought to what you and the others have been
>telling me over the past few days and we have made some changes
>around here. I will no longer be in charge of bed time. They know
>when they are tired and will go to bed if given control. The reason
>we started a bed time routine was to encourage time for quiet
>reading. When I discussed this with the girls today, my older one
>said she can't go to sleep unless she has her reading time so she
>will always fit that in. My younger one said she can't read at
>night because she is usually too tired. She said she would rather
>read in the morning. My husband was afraid they would stay up too
>late and keep us awake. We agreed that we were to respect each
>others need to go to bed at different times. I will continue to
>think about what areas I may still be trying to control things and
>give that up, thanks for sharing your thoughts.
>
>Pat



I'm so glad for you, Pat. The changes sound good and I think you'll
all be happy. Be aware, though... you kids may test you since this is
all so new. Don't be surprised if your dd decides to stay up half the
night just to make *sure* you really meant what you said! Stick to
your word and I truly believe it'll be fine. She won't do that long
if she does it at all.
I'd love to know how it goes... keep us posted!
~xx~ ~xx~ ~xx~
Sarah Carothers
puddles@...



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Pat Cald...

Well Sarah, last night was the first night of the no-bedtime-routine. I was downstairs on the computer around 10:30 p.m. (normally quiet time started at 10:00 p.m.) and could hear a lot of jumping upstairs. When I went to bed around 11:00 I told the girls they needed to stop banging on the floor because it was disturbing and dh and I were going to sleep. I did not tell them to go to bed but I must say I was a little annoyed. I'll try to be more patient tonight. I heard them go to bed shortly after I did so as far as I know it wasn't too late. Thanks

Pat
----- Original Message -----
From: Sarah Carothers
To: [email protected]
Sent: Tuesday, January 01, 2002 11:50 PM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] chores/routines WAS: grandparents


On Tue, 1 Jan 2002 20:05:34 -0500, Pat Cald... wrote:

>I've given a lot of thought to what you and the others have been
>telling me over the past few days and we have made some changes
>around here. I will no longer be in charge of bed time. They know
>when they are tired and will go to bed if given control. The reason
>we started a bed time routine was to encourage time for quiet
>reading. When I discussed this with the girls today, my older one
>said she can't go to sleep unless she has her reading time so she
>will always fit that in. My younger one said she can't read at
>night because she is usually too tired. She said she would rather
>read in the morning. My husband was afraid they would stay up too
>late and keep us awake. We agreed that we were to respect each
>others need to go to bed at different times. I will continue to
>think about what areas I may still be trying to control things and
>give that up, thanks for sharing your thoughts.
>
>Pat



I'm so glad for you, Pat. The changes sound good and I think you'll
all be happy. Be aware, though... you kids may test you since this is
all so new. Don't be surprised if your dd decides to stay up half the
night just to make *sure* you really meant what you said! Stick to
your word and I truly believe it'll be fine. She won't do that long
if she does it at all.
I'd love to know how it goes... keep us posted!
~xx~ ~xx~ ~xx~
Sarah Carothers
puddles@...



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Yahoo! Groups Sponsor



Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com

To unsubscribe, set preferences, or read archives:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Unschooling-dotcom

Another great list sponsored by Home Education Magazine!
http://www.home-ed-magazine.com



Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sarah Carothers

On Wed, 2 Jan 2002 08:41:08 -0500, Pat Cald... wrote:
>I was downstairs on the computer around
>10:30 p.m. (normally quiet time started at 10:00 p.m.) and
>could hear a lot of jumping upstairs. When I went to bed
>around 11:00 I told the girls they needed to stop banging on
>the floor because it was disturbing and dh and I were going to
>sleep. I did not tell them to go to bed but I must say I was a
>little annoyed. I'll try to be more patient tonight. I heard
>them go to bed shortly after I did so as far as I know it
>wasn't too late. Thanks
>
>Pat

Good morning, Pat
They'll stop jumping (for joy!) in a day or so... probably won't do
it again. Why not talk to them today and tell them how the new 'plan'
seemed to work really well except that they're going to have to learn
to tip-toe because the floor boards creak (or whatever) and it was
distracting. They're probably so glad to get to stay up that
tip-toeing won't be too much to ask ;-)

~xx~ ~xx~ ~xx~
Sarah Carothers
puddles@...



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

On Tue, 1 Jan 2002 18:29:05 -0500 Sarah Carothers <puddles@...>
writes:
>I don't think anybody likes being told what to do so if there's a way
to
> view these tasks that need doing as something rather than chores, I
> believe that's the approach to take.
> I'm not making sense... too much sugar today.%-/

Oh, no, I think that statement made perfect sense, it was probably the
crux of the whole thing. That's what I strive for.

Carrying stuff in from the car is never an issue here, we all do it, but
dirty dishes get left everywhere, mine included. Usually when I go to do
dishes I'll ask Cacie is she'll make a "dish run" if she's around.
Actually, I guess what I do is ask for small specific things as I need
them, like asking if she'll make a dish run, or swiffer the family room
before I vacuum, or grab a pile of clothes on her way to the bedroom. She
rarely say no outright (probably learned that from me ;-) but she'll
sometimes say, "Um, I'm kind of in the middle of playing (reading, a
show, whatever) now" and I'll either say, "Fine, no hurry" or "Oh, never
mind then, I'll get it."

Every once in a while I get into a cleaning frenzy and strong arm a bit,
which is my issues coming up, I think - I was coerced into cleaning as a
kid and hated it, and then guilted about being messy and so I feel really
stuck sometimes. I clean much better at other people's houses ;-) It is
getting slowly better, it helps me to say soemthing like, "I'm going to
clean up the ebay shelf" and just do that, rather than a huge task like
cleaning the guest house..

Dar
________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.