Re: [Unschooling-dotcom]Unsupporting Families
Kolleen
>JAROCKI9@... writes:I think you showed amazing restraint in your conversation. Personally I
>She then jumped back
>to the pertussis vaccine and said again PEOPLE DIE.
like to point out all the people that die from the vaccines. I also point
out that each cost of a vaccine has a percentage that goes into a fund
for restitution to the parents of the children that die from it (although
many parents can't claim it since its very hard for them to prove it was
vaccine related death.)
I also point out that all the cases of disease that are caused by
vaccines (the only Polio cases that exists in the world today are from
vaccinations) and back when I had money *laugh* I used to send them one
of Neil Zimmer's books on vaccinations.
When pushed in conversation, I also point out how vaccines don't keep
kids safe, they just keep the symptoms from showing. Their poor little
bodies stop fighting and it turns into something a lot nastier sooner or
later in life. I'm sure a lot of ADD is from vaccination poisoning.
Thanks for helping to support a movement to keep our children safe.
regards,
kolleen
btw: this is a tough issue because there are one or two vaccines that are
safe. For example there is a company that makes a great tetanus vaccine
(I can get the name if anyone is interested). YET some states require
either a)religious b) medical. Very few states also allow c) conscious
choice.
This puts parents at a disadvantage that want to vaccinate for one (lets
say at the age of 5 for tetanus only) and not for any others. Which means
parents then have to go 'underground' to make their choices.
Tis a sad thing in my heart that our children are not our children when
it comes to things like this, yet something like spanking is legal. Oh,
I'll never understand it all.
Kolleen
>Kolleen - yes, I would be interested in the exact name. My kids are notConnaught is the name of the company. And only after the age of 5 is it
>vaccinated but I have heard tetanus is the one to get - if any. I would
>like to know which specific one you feel is safe, for future reference.
>Thanks!
>
>Karin
suggested. And only in a healthy child.
Karin, can you tell me how you heard that tetanus is the one to get? I'm
curious and would be very happy to know that this information is out
there for everyone.
Regards,
kolleen
[email protected]
In a message dated 12/25/01 9:04:05 PM, puddles@... writes:
<< {{Nicki}} ! That's the pits! I also feel that obligation for some
reason.
ok.. so here's the plan. Next time she gets on our case, wants to
"discuss" it, whip out a John Holt book (or my favorite Real Lives by
Grace Lewellyn) and tell her the discussion will begin in one
week..AFTER she's finished reading the book :-) :-P *Maybe* then,
she'll either read it and learn or she'll stop the harassment. It
will at least put you in a position to have something *to* discuss
other than misled opinions about what you're doing ~or~ she won't
bring it up because she'll never take the time to learn about it.
Wishing you better success that I've had!
Sarah >>
I had a similar argument like this with my sister that never resolved. My
sister is a lunchroom helper at her daughter's school, and one day she
attended a school seminar for teachers and other employees. One of the
speakers spoke on vaccination, specifically pertussis. When she came home,
she called me at our parents house. (To make matters worse, all three of my
children were sick with whooping cough at the time, believed to have been
passed along by sick grandfather.) She started explaining to me that I
should vaccinate because PEOPLE DIE from whooping cough. I tried to explain
my research, and that the majority of deaths are not in previously healthy,
robust people like my children, and so on ...., and that she could plainly
see my children were not terribly sick from whooping cough. She then made
the huge leap to accuse me that the only reason I homeschool is because I
won't vaccinate. I (still polite) explained that I could write a religious
or personal exemption letter if I would like to send my children to school.
And my homeschooling and lack of vaccinations are entirely unrelated except
in my desire to do what I feel is best for my children. She then jumped back
to the pertussis vaccine and said again PEOPLE DIE. I tried to explain that
I had compiled volumes of paperwork, read books, and even my M.D. supports my
vaccination decisions, and she starts quoting some county nurse that spoke at
the seminar that PEOPLE DIE. I asked what specific arguments did she have so
that I could counter them, because I had done the research. She then said
she did not want to discuss it because I am wrong and will never agree. I
said I did not want to discuss it if she was going to be uninformed on the
subject and quote one biased person's opinion as her only argument. She
again said I was wrong and wouldn't discuss it further. I then said if she
truly believed I was wrong and endangering my children, shouldn't she try
harder to convince me of the error of my ways, and she hung up on me.
Now, my mother was in the room with me the whole time and only heard my side
of the conversation, and focused on me saying I would not discuss the
situation with an uninformed person, and told me that was rude.
As it is the custom in my family, everybody ignored this situation and it
went away. This was three months ago, and everybody is friendly and on
speaking terms, but it as if the conversation never happened.
Sorry this is so long. Merry everything.
Melinda in Illinois
<< {{Nicki}} ! That's the pits! I also feel that obligation for some
reason.
ok.. so here's the plan. Next time she gets on our case, wants to
"discuss" it, whip out a John Holt book (or my favorite Real Lives by
Grace Lewellyn) and tell her the discussion will begin in one
week..AFTER she's finished reading the book :-) :-P *Maybe* then,
she'll either read it and learn or she'll stop the harassment. It
will at least put you in a position to have something *to* discuss
other than misled opinions about what you're doing ~or~ she won't
bring it up because she'll never take the time to learn about it.
Wishing you better success that I've had!
Sarah >>
I had a similar argument like this with my sister that never resolved. My
sister is a lunchroom helper at her daughter's school, and one day she
attended a school seminar for teachers and other employees. One of the
speakers spoke on vaccination, specifically pertussis. When she came home,
she called me at our parents house. (To make matters worse, all three of my
children were sick with whooping cough at the time, believed to have been
passed along by sick grandfather.) She started explaining to me that I
should vaccinate because PEOPLE DIE from whooping cough. I tried to explain
my research, and that the majority of deaths are not in previously healthy,
robust people like my children, and so on ...., and that she could plainly
see my children were not terribly sick from whooping cough. She then made
the huge leap to accuse me that the only reason I homeschool is because I
won't vaccinate. I (still polite) explained that I could write a religious
or personal exemption letter if I would like to send my children to school.
And my homeschooling and lack of vaccinations are entirely unrelated except
in my desire to do what I feel is best for my children. She then jumped back
to the pertussis vaccine and said again PEOPLE DIE. I tried to explain that
I had compiled volumes of paperwork, read books, and even my M.D. supports my
vaccination decisions, and she starts quoting some county nurse that spoke at
the seminar that PEOPLE DIE. I asked what specific arguments did she have so
that I could counter them, because I had done the research. She then said
she did not want to discuss it because I am wrong and will never agree. I
said I did not want to discuss it if she was going to be uninformed on the
subject and quote one biased person's opinion as her only argument. She
again said I was wrong and wouldn't discuss it further. I then said if she
truly believed I was wrong and endangering my children, shouldn't she try
harder to convince me of the error of my ways, and she hung up on me.
Now, my mother was in the room with me the whole time and only heard my side
of the conversation, and focused on me saying I would not discuss the
situation with an uninformed person, and told me that was rude.
As it is the custom in my family, everybody ignored this situation and it
went away. This was three months ago, and everybody is friendly and on
speaking terms, but it as if the conversation never happened.
Sorry this is so long. Merry everything.
Melinda in Illinois
Sarah Carothers
Melinda, FWIW, I don't think you were rude to insist on an informed
discussion or no discussion at all. Makes sense to me! The only
thing you could have added were some suggestions on where to find the
material but heck, that really isn't your problem ;-)!
Sarah (who won't discuss breast feeding, vaccinations and lots of
other topics... cause I'm uninformed!!!!)
~xx~ ~xx~ ~xx~
Sarah Carothers
puddles@...
discussion or no discussion at all. Makes sense to me! The only
thing you could have added were some suggestions on where to find the
material but heck, that really isn't your problem ;-)!
Sarah (who won't discuss breast feeding, vaccinations and lots of
other topics... cause I'm uninformed!!!!)
~xx~ ~xx~ ~xx~
Sarah Carothers
puddles@...
>Now, my mother was in the room with me the whole time and only heard[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>my side
>of the conversation, and focused on me saying I would not discuss
>the
>situation with an uninformed person, and told me that was rude.
>
>As it is the custom in my family, everybody ignored this situation
>and it
>went away. This was three months ago, and everybody is friendly and
>on
>speaking terms, but it as if the conversation never happened.
>
>Sorry this is so long. Merry everything.
>
>Melinda in Illinois
Karin
Kolleen - yes, I would be interested in the exact name. My kids are not vaccinated but I have heard tetanus is the one to get - if any. I would like to know which specific one you feel is safe, for future reference. Thanks!
Karin
kolleen wrote:
btw: this is a tough issue because there are one or two vaccines that are
safe. For example there is a company that makes a great tetanus vaccine
(I can get the name if anyone is interested).
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Karin
kolleen wrote:
btw: this is a tough issue because there are one or two vaccines that are
safe. For example there is a company that makes a great tetanus vaccine
(I can get the name if anyone is interested).
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Karin
I've just heard it "here and there", from other moms who don't vaccinate, some friends of mine, comments I've picked up even on these lists or at unschooling.com. Also, tetanus is the one shot always asked about while signing up for sports. I've also heard that tetanus (lockjaw?) is very, very bad to get.
My kids have been vaccinated once a few years ago, that was for tetanus. They were about age 5-8 I think. They both developed a little rash at the sight of the injection. It went away, though, and they seemed okay. I still question my decision not to vaccinate from time to time, and I really enjoy discussion about it. I have not discussed it with my MIL or FIL, though. FIL is a doctor, MIL is very pro-immunize against ANYTHING. We have successfully hidden our non-immunization viewpoint from them, so far. I avoid confrontation, if possible.
Karin
My kids have been vaccinated once a few years ago, that was for tetanus. They were about age 5-8 I think. They both developed a little rash at the sight of the injection. It went away, though, and they seemed okay. I still question my decision not to vaccinate from time to time, and I really enjoy discussion about it. I have not discussed it with my MIL or FIL, though. FIL is a doctor, MIL is very pro-immunize against ANYTHING. We have successfully hidden our non-immunization viewpoint from them, so far. I avoid confrontation, if possible.
Karin
>Connaught is the name of the company. And only after the age of 5 is it[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>suggested. And only in a healthy child.
>Karin, can you tell me how you heard that tetanus is the one to get? I'm
>curious and would be very happy to know that this information is out
>there for everyone.
>Regards,
>kolleen
[email protected]
In a message dated 12/26/01 11:55:37 AM, curtkar@... writes:
<< >Karin, can you tell me how you heard that tetanus is the one to get?
I'm
these lists or at unschooling.com. Also, tetanus is the one shot always asked
about while signing up for sports. I've also heard that tetanus (lockjaw?) is
very, very bad to get.
What I have learned about tetanus is that it can basically live forever in
the soil, so there is no way for it to be eradicated forever as some
historical diseases have been, and since it is not like chicken pox or
measles, you can be on guard because something is "going around". Also,
because medical personnel expect everybody to be vaccinated, tetanus is often
overlooked until too late as the cause of your illness. One more thing, the
tetanus vaccine has been around a long time, so we have had more of a chance
to view long term side effects, and even though everything has side effects,
we are able to judge tetanus a lot easier than say the newer hepatitis
vaccine.
I couldn't help putting views in. It makes me feel that my research in the
subject is even more worthwhile.
Melinda
<< >Karin, can you tell me how you heard that tetanus is the one to get?
I'm
>curious and would be very happy to know that this information is outwho don't vaccinate, some friends of mine, comments I've picked up even on
>there for everyone. >>I've just heard it "here and there", from other moms
these lists or at unschooling.com. Also, tetanus is the one shot always asked
about while signing up for sports. I've also heard that tetanus (lockjaw?) is
very, very bad to get.
What I have learned about tetanus is that it can basically live forever in
the soil, so there is no way for it to be eradicated forever as some
historical diseases have been, and since it is not like chicken pox or
measles, you can be on guard because something is "going around". Also,
because medical personnel expect everybody to be vaccinated, tetanus is often
overlooked until too late as the cause of your illness. One more thing, the
tetanus vaccine has been around a long time, so we have had more of a chance
to view long term side effects, and even though everything has side effects,
we are able to judge tetanus a lot easier than say the newer hepatitis
vaccine.
I couldn't help putting views in. It makes me feel that my research in the
subject is even more worthwhile.
Melinda