rumpleteasermom

I wonder if there is any research about whether kids from strict
homes are more likely to get into trouble (like drugs, alcoholism,
etc.) than kids from homes where there is caring and interest but not
the kind of control found in many homes?

It seems to me that most of what I've read lumped all non-
authoritarian parents together. The people who go off to work and
leave their kids alone all day are considered the same as the stay at
home, do stuff with kind of parents as long as they answer the
questions about discipline a certain way.

Bridget

Kolleen

>> I guess my think ing is this . . .
>> I know lots of assicts and alcoholics. Theya ll seem to fall into
>> two categories . . . those who came from poor innercity places where
>> drinking and drugs were an escape of sorts and a way to cope the
>> otehr type are those who come from mid to upper-class homes where
>> they were expected to be exactly what the parents wanted or the
>> parents were very authoritarian or who were never shown love, only
>> given stuff and money.
>> But I can't think of a simgle person who had parents who were
>> interrested in them but not in a controlling way who went on to have
>> these problems.
>> But I can only say that in anecdotal at best and can't be used as a
>> complete model of reality. It is truly just what I see around me and
>> have experienced in the past.


I know from having relatives in the suburbs of NYC (Long Island mostly) that a lot of the upper middle class children are bored out of their mind and turn to substance abuse, peer abuse and other destructive behaviour.

I'm sure its also a lot of pent up anger turned inward or outward to lack of and/or controlling parental involvement.

As far as people from dysfunctional families... I also observed that more of them have it together than the ones that APPEAR functional.

my 2¢
kolleen

Joseph Fuerst

All I could find was a study indicating that mothers who abuse substnces
(alcohol/drugs) are more punitive in their discipline.

My guess would be that the ones in "strict" (i.e., controlling) homes would
tend to rebel more strongly..... since their natural tendencies to assert
individuality were likely squelched. But rebellion can take many forms. I
wonder if many youngsters wandering into the oath of drug and alcohol abuse
do it more as a coping response to pain and lonliness in their lives.
Susan

> I wonder if there is any research about whether kids from strict
> homes are more likely to get into trouble (like drugs, alcoholism,
> etc.) than kids from homes where there is caring and interest but not
> the kind of control found in many homes?
>
> It seems to me that most of what I've read lumped all non-
> authoritarian parents together. The people who go off to work and
> leave their kids alone all day are considered the same as the stay at
> home, do stuff with kind of parents as long as they answer the
> questions about discipline a certain way.
>
> Bridget
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 17:39:22 EST
> From: lite2yu@...
> Subject: Administrative Post
>
> The following administrative message will be posted monthly or as
necessary:
>
> The primary purpose of this list is mutual support for unschooling, which
can
> mean different things to different people. Because there is no one right
> definition or approach, the expression and coexistence of diverse
viewpoints
> is encouraged and expected on this list. Posts which are primarily
> argumentative, defensive, and/or focused on past grievances will not be
> tolerated. Mary Broussard (lite2yu@...) and Cindy Fergerson
> (crma@...) are co-moderators for this list. Feel free to contact
> either of them at any time for information or assistance.
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 9
> Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 22:39:50 -0000
> From: "kayb85" <sheran@...>
> Subject: Re: Speaking of dogs
>
> I tried to do that once when dd wanted a kitten. I went to the spca.
> What an organization! I would never donate to them or visit them
> again. You can't own a pet from there, you "borrow" their pet. You
> sign a form stating that the pet will be neutered within a certain
> period of time or the cat will be taken back, that the pet will
> receive all of its vaccines and the cat will be given an implant that
> will allow it to be tracked. And they wonder why people don't adopt
> their pets!
> Sheila
>
> > Best thing you could do is adopt a dog off "death row" or from a no
> kill
> > shelter and give it a chance to have love! Working for a shelter, I
> see so
> > many wonderful dogs come through here. So many of them get passed
> over due
> > to not being a pure bred dog or that is all the people want...but at
> least
> > they have food, shelter and someone who cares here...
> >
> > Jessi
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > <<**<<**<<**<<**<<**<<**<<**<<**<<**<<**
> > Too often we give children answers to remember rather than problems
> to solve.
> > ~ Roger Lewin ~
> > <<**<<**<<**<<**<<**<<**<<**<<**<<**<<**
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 10
> Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 16:18:00 -0800
> From: "Lynda" <lurine@...>
> Subject: Re: Holidays
>
> We do Christmas our own way as we are not of the organized religions
> persausion. Each year we take turns reading Christmas stories from
> different religions and countries. We're a curious bunch here and like to
> know the hows and whys of what other folks do.
>
> Each year we pick a different country to "do" for dinner. This year we
are
> doing Germany and the whole menu is from Germany.
>
> We have lots of music and sing alongs.
>
> Christmas isn't part of my heritage but is part of hubby's so we go with
the
> flow, so to speak. And all of us being artsy types, our house (a
Victorian
> cottage) ends up looking like an advertisement for a Chevy Chase movie or
a
> Home Improvements episode <g>
>
> Lynda
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: rumpleteasermom <rumpleteasermom@...>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2001 4:17 AM
> Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] Holidays
>
>
> > So what are you all doing this month? Which holidays do you
> > celebrate?
> >
> > Bridget
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
> > Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com
> >
> > To unsubscribe, set preferences, or read archives:
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Unschooling-dotcom
> >
> > Another great list sponsored by Home Education Magazine!
> > http://www.home-ed-magazine.com
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 11
> Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 01:45:43 -0000
> From: "kayb85" <sheran@...>
> Subject: Re: Holidays
>
> We celebrate Christmas in the "traditional" way--Christmas tree,
> cookies, presents, Christmas crafts, stories, movies, stringing
> popcorn, etc.
>
> This year we're also celebrating Hanukkah. We got a menorrah, made
> latkes and applesauce, watched the animated hero classics video about
> Macabees, and plan on making a dreidel tomorrow. We've been learning
> about the Messianic significance of some of the old test. holidays.
> It was during Hanukkah that Jesus stood up in the temple and declared
> Himself to be the Light of the world! Jesus was also probably
> conceived on Hanukkah (and probably NOT born in December!)
>
> Sheila
>
>
> > > So what are you all doing this month? Which holidays do you
> > > celebrate?
> > >
> > > Bridget
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 12
> Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 20:04:53 -0600
> From: Jessi <mistycal@...>
> Subject: Re: Re: Speaking of dogs
>
> Ok, let me see if I can explain some of this while fixing dinner LOL...
>
> You have to sign a form from any organization stating that you are
adopting
> a pet...this is for their records and for the state which does check these
> out if there is a problem.
>
> Spay and neutering is also required by 6 months as that is when the animal
> becomes "adult" and can reproduce. We are all trying to keep the number
of
> unwanted animals down so this has to be enforced or well, one cat has 3-8
> kittens and 6 months later there are say 3 more cats pregnant from that
> litter and so on...also, this is state mandated as well.
>
> Shots are also a requirement for the health of an animal but truthfully,
> the shelters are too busy to check into it and see. They would spend
99.9%
> of their time on the phone to different vets trying to do this and some
> people do them on their own...
>
> The implant is for YOUR protection, not to track the animal in the manner
> in which I think you mean. If the dog/cat ever got away from you, there
> would be a way to get it back to you. We honestly wish more people had
> them when we find their animals...I have seen many kids in tears when the
> family pet disappeared or took a dog on vacation and it happened to break
> off its leash or slipped its collar and was gone in a flash.
>
> Most of what they do on applications/contracts is to make people realize
> the importance that their pet carries. They are trying to make people
> responsible for their pets so that our jobs are easier in rescue. If
> people got their animals spayed and neutered, there would be no real need
> for rescue groups anymore. Some countries do not have them as they
> regulate animal husbandry so much.
>
> Our contracts have the same thing on it about taking the dogs back if not
> spay/neutered on time and if that and the shots are not done, you could be
> fined $150 dollars...it is a protection to the animals who have already
> been through a lot in their life.
>
> At 10:39 PM 12/13/01 +0000, you wrote:
> >I tried to do that once when dd wanted a kitten. I went to the spca.
> >What an organization! I would never donate to them or visit them
> >again. You can't own a pet from there, you "borrow" their pet. You
> >sign a form stating that the pet will be neutered within a certain
> >period of time or the cat will be taken back, that the pet will
> >receive all of its vaccines and the cat will be given an implant that
> >will allow it to be tracked. And they wonder why people don't adopt
> >their pets!
> >Sheila
> >
> >c0527c7.jpg
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 13
> Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 19:30:34 -0800
> From: Tia Leschke <leschke@...>
> Subject: Re: Holidays
>
>
> >
> >Each year we pick a different country to "do" for dinner. This year we
are
> >doing Germany and the whole menu is from Germany.
>
> If you were doing your whole Christmas German, you'd do the presents on
> Christmas Eve. That's how we always did it when I was little. Now we do
> it both ways. Dinner and presents here on Christmas Eve, then dinner and
> presents on Christmas Day with Rod's family.
> Tia
>
> No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.
> Eleanor Roosevelt
> *********************************************
> Tia Leschke
> leschke@...
> On Vancouver Island
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 14
> Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 23:20:15 -0700
> From: Diane <cen46624@...>
> Subject: Re: Re: teethbrushing
>
> Leslie wrote:
>
> > My dd, that had the cavities as an infant, got her first tooth at four
months and a day. When the cavities appeared it seemed to happen in an
instant. One day the teeth looked perfect the next day she had obvious
decay.
>
> Exactly! I thought her tooth had grown in malformed, and our regular
dentist said it probably had been chipped. Later I realized it was decay,
after it had spread to the surrounding teeth. We have a dental appointment
in the morning--took months to get in :-(
>
>
>
> > Also, if I succumb to an antihistamine, I can breathe
> > through my nose, but my mouth is even drier. The dentist has said a dry
> > mouth is bad for your teeth, just doesn't believe it is causing my
cavities.
>
> There is an artificial saliva product on the market that might help with
this. I *think* it's available over the counter, and you'd just squirt some
in before you go to bed, and maybe when you get up during the night to keep
your mouth moist. Might help, might not, but cheap to try, huh?
>
> :-) Diane
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 15
> Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 22:01:09 -0800
> From: "Lynda" <lurine@...>
> Subject: Re: Re: Speaking of dogs
>
> The application process started because of a problem with some folks going
> around to shelters to get animals to sell to labs. Desperate/unethical
labs
> will buy anything. Good/ethical labs only buy animals bred for the
purpose
> because testing an then be standardized.
>
> Lynda
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Jessi <mistycal@...>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2001 6:04 PM
> Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Re: Speaking of dogs
>
>
> > Ok, let me see if I can explain some of this while fixing dinner LOL...
> >
> > You have to sign a form from any organization stating that you are
> adopting
> > a pet...this is for their records and for the state which does check
these
> > out if there is a problem.
> >
> > Spay and neutering is also required by 6 months as that is when the
animal
> > becomes "adult" and can reproduce. We are all trying to keep the number
> of
> > unwanted animals down so this has to be enforced or well, one cat has
3-8
> > kittens and 6 months later there are say 3 more cats pregnant from that
> > litter and so on...also, this is state mandated as well.
> >
> > Shots are also a requirement for the health of an animal but truthfully,
> > the shelters are too busy to check into it and see. They would spend
> 99.9%
> > of their time on the phone to different vets trying to do this and some
> > people do them on their own...
> >
> > The implant is for YOUR protection, not to track the animal in the
manner
> > in which I think you mean. If the dog/cat ever got away from you, there
> > would be a way to get it back to you. We honestly wish more people had
> > them when we find their animals...I have seen many kids in tears when
the
> > family pet disappeared or took a dog on vacation and it happened to
break
> > off its leash or slipped its collar and was gone in a flash.
> >
> > Most of what they do on applications/contracts is to make people realize
> > the importance that their pet carries. They are trying to make people
> > responsible for their pets so that our jobs are easier in rescue. If
> > people got their animals spayed and neutered, there would be no real
need
> > for rescue groups anymore. Some countries do not have them as they
> > regulate animal husbandry so much.
> >
> > Our contracts have the same thing on it about taking the dogs back if
not
> > spay/neutered on time and if that and the shots are not done, you could
be
> > fined $150 dollars...it is a protection to the animals who have already
> > been through a lot in their life.
> >
> > At 10:39 PM 12/13/01 +0000, you wrote:
> > >I tried to do that once when dd wanted a kitten. I went to the spca.
> > >What an organization! I would never donate to them or visit them
> > >again. You can't own a pet from there, you "borrow" their pet. You
> > >sign a form stating that the pet will be neutered within a certain
> > >period of time or the cat will be taken back, that the pet will
> > >receive all of its vaccines and the cat will be given an implant that
> > >will allow it to be tracked. And they wonder why people don't adopt
> > >their pets!
> > >Sheila
> > >
> > >c0527c7.jpg
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
> > Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
> > Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com
> >
> > To unsubscribe, set preferences, or read archives:
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Unschooling-dotcom
> >
> > Another great list sponsored by Home Education Magazine!
> > http://www.home-ed-magazine.com
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 16
> Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 04:55:37 -0500
> From: Fetteroll <fetteroll@...>
> Subject: Re: Re: Speaking of dogs
>
> on 12/13/01 5:39 PM, kayb85 at sheran@... wrote:
>
> > I tried to do that once when dd wanted a kitten. I went to the spca.
> > What an organization! I would never donate to them or visit them
> > again. You can't own a pet from there, you "borrow" their pet. You
> > sign a form stating that the pet will be neutered within a certain
> > period of time or the cat will be taken back, that the pet will
> > receive all of its vaccines and the cat will be given an implant that
> > will allow it to be tracked. And they wonder why people don't adopt
> > their pets!
>
> There seem to be even more regulations in Mass and the MSPCA here seems to
> be pretty successful in placing pets. At at least one place the animals
are
> neutered before they leave the shelter (at 3 months) and most shots are
> given. And yes the implant is so the owner can (hopefully!) be reunited
with
> a lost pet.
>
> One place wanted to see either a deed or tax bill to prove home ownership.
> The shelters have *lots* of animals turned in because the pet's owners
moved
> to a new apartment and the new landlord didn't allow pets.
>
> I think they're wonderful! Probably if you saw what they see -- the
massive
> number of unplanned kittens and puppies turned in and sick animals and so
> forth -- the reasons for the regulations would make a lot more sense.
>
> Joyce
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>

rumpleteasermom

I guess my think ing is this . . .
I know lots of assicts and alcoholics. Theya ll seem to fall into
two categories . . . those who came from poor innercity places where
drinking and drugs were an escape of sorts and a way to cope the
otehr type are those who come from mid to upper-class homes where
they were expected to be exactly what the parents wanted or the
parents were very authoritarian or who were never shown love, only
given stuff and money.
But I can't think of a simgle person who had parents who were
interrested in them but not in a controlling way who went on to have
these problems.
But I can only say that in anecdotal at best and can't be used as a
complete model of reality. It is truly just what I see around me and
have experienced in the past.

Bridget

--- In Unschooling-dotcom@y..., "Joseph Fuerst" <fuerst@f...> wrote:
> All I could find was a study indicating that mothers who abuse
substnces
> (alcohol/drugs) are more punitive in their discipline.
>
> My guess would be that the ones in "strict" (i.e., controlling)
homes would
> tend to rebel more strongly..... since their natural tendencies to
assert
> individuality were likely squelched. But rebellion can take many
forms. I
> wonder if many youngsters wandering into the oath of drug and
alcohol abuse
> do it more as a coping response to pain and lonliness in their
lives.
> Susan

Lynda

There was a study done, I don't have the link, that said a lot of the kids
from substance abusing households get into substance abuse themselves
because they see an "it's o.k." attitude, they find "it" laying around and
try it or, the thing that just about knocked me over, the parents give it to
them, kinda like a family thing. ya know, let's all hang out and get
stoned/high/drunk together.

One father was even quoted as "I don't understand why my son and I don't get
along better. We even smoke weed together and everything." Kinda like "I'm
his good buddy, he should like me more."

Lynda
----- Original Message -----
From: Joseph Fuerst <fuerst@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, December 14, 2001 6:26 AM
Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] Re: Random Musings


> All I could find was a study indicating that mothers who abuse substnces
> (alcohol/drugs) are more punitive in their discipline.
>
> My guess would be that the ones in "strict" (i.e., controlling) homes
would
> tend to rebel more strongly..... since their natural tendencies to assert
> individuality were likely squelched. But rebellion can take many forms.
I
> wonder if many youngsters wandering into the oath of drug and alcohol
abuse
> do it more as a coping response to pain and lonliness in their lives.
> Susan
>
> > I wonder if there is any research about whether kids from strict
> > homes are more likely to get into trouble (like drugs, alcoholism,
> > etc.) than kids from homes where there is caring and interest but not
> > the kind of control found in many homes?
> >
> > It seems to me that most of what I've read lumped all non-
> > authoritarian parents together. The people who go off to work and
> > leave their kids alone all day are considered the same as the stay at
> > home, do stuff with kind of parents as long as they answer the
> > questions about discipline a certain way.
> >
> > Bridget
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ________________________________________________________________________
> > ________________________________________________________________________
> >
> > Message: 8
> > Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 17:39:22 EST
> > From: lite2yu@...
> > Subject: Administrative Post
> >
> > The following administrative message will be posted monthly or as
> necessary:
> >
> > The primary purpose of this list is mutual support for unschooling,
which
> can
> > mean different things to different people. Because there is no one right
> > definition or approach, the expression and coexistence of diverse
> viewpoints
> > is encouraged and expected on this list. Posts which are primarily
> > argumentative, defensive, and/or focused on past grievances will not be
> > tolerated. Mary Broussard (lite2yu@...) and Cindy Fergerson
> > (crma@...) are co-moderators for this list. Feel free to
contact
> > either of them at any time for information or assistance.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
> > ________________________________________________________________________
> > ________________________________________________________________________
> >
> > Message: 9
> > Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 22:39:50 -0000
> > From: "kayb85" <sheran@...>
> > Subject: Re: Speaking of dogs
> >
> > I tried to do that once when dd wanted a kitten. I went to the spca.
> > What an organization! I would never donate to them or visit them
> > again. You can't own a pet from there, you "borrow" their pet. You
> > sign a form stating that the pet will be neutered within a certain
> > period of time or the cat will be taken back, that the pet will
> > receive all of its vaccines and the cat will be given an implant that
> > will allow it to be tracked. And they wonder why people don't adopt
> > their pets!
> > Sheila
> >
> > > Best thing you could do is adopt a dog off "death row" or from a no
> > kill
> > > shelter and give it a chance to have love! Working for a shelter, I
> > see so
> > > many wonderful dogs come through here. So many of them get passed
> > over due
> > > to not being a pure bred dog or that is all the people want...but at
> > least
> > > they have food, shelter and someone who cares here...
> > >
> > > Jessi
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > <<**<<**<<**<<**<<**<<**<<**<<**<<**<<**
> > > Too often we give children answers to remember rather than problems
> > to solve.
> > > ~ Roger Lewin ~
> > > <<**<<**<<**<<**<<**<<**<<**<<**<<**<<**
> >
> >
> >
> > ________________________________________________________________________
> > ________________________________________________________________________
> >
> > Message: 10
> > Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 16:18:00 -0800
> > From: "Lynda" <lurine@...>
> > Subject: Re: Holidays
> >
> > We do Christmas our own way as we are not of the organized religions
> > persausion. Each year we take turns reading Christmas stories from
> > different religions and countries. We're a curious bunch here and like
to
> > know the hows and whys of what other folks do.
> >
> > Each year we pick a different country to "do" for dinner. This year we
> are
> > doing Germany and the whole menu is from Germany.
> >
> > We have lots of music and sing alongs.
> >
> > Christmas isn't part of my heritage but is part of hubby's so we go with
> the
> > flow, so to speak. And all of us being artsy types, our house (a
> Victorian
> > cottage) ends up looking like an advertisement for a Chevy Chase movie
or
> a
> > Home Improvements episode <g>
> >
> > Lynda
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: rumpleteasermom <rumpleteasermom@...>
> > To: <[email protected]>
> > Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2001 4:17 AM
> > Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] Holidays
> >
> >
> > > So what are you all doing this month? Which holidays do you
> > > celebrate?
> > >
> > > Bridget
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
> > > Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com
> > >
> > > To unsubscribe, set preferences, or read archives:
> > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Unschooling-dotcom
> > >
> > > Another great list sponsored by Home Education Magazine!
> > > http://www.home-ed-magazine.com
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > ________________________________________________________________________
> > ________________________________________________________________________
> >
> > Message: 11
> > Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 01:45:43 -0000
> > From: "kayb85" <sheran@...>
> > Subject: Re: Holidays
> >
> > We celebrate Christmas in the "traditional" way--Christmas tree,
> > cookies, presents, Christmas crafts, stories, movies, stringing
> > popcorn, etc.
> >
> > This year we're also celebrating Hanukkah. We got a menorrah, made
> > latkes and applesauce, watched the animated hero classics video about
> > Macabees, and plan on making a dreidel tomorrow. We've been learning
> > about the Messianic significance of some of the old test. holidays.
> > It was during Hanukkah that Jesus stood up in the temple and declared
> > Himself to be the Light of the world! Jesus was also probably
> > conceived on Hanukkah (and probably NOT born in December!)
> >
> > Sheila
> >
> >
> > > > So what are you all doing this month? Which holidays do you
> > > > celebrate?
> > > >
> > > > Bridget
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ________________________________________________________________________
> > ________________________________________________________________________
> >
> > Message: 12
> > Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 20:04:53 -0600
> > From: Jessi <mistycal@...>
> > Subject: Re: Re: Speaking of dogs
> >
> > Ok, let me see if I can explain some of this while fixing dinner LOL...
> >
> > You have to sign a form from any organization stating that you are
> adopting
> > a pet...this is for their records and for the state which does check
these
> > out if there is a problem.
> >
> > Spay and neutering is also required by 6 months as that is when the
animal
> > becomes "adult" and can reproduce. We are all trying to keep the number
> of
> > unwanted animals down so this has to be enforced or well, one cat has
3-8
> > kittens and 6 months later there are say 3 more cats pregnant from that
> > litter and so on...also, this is state mandated as well.
> >
> > Shots are also a requirement for the health of an animal but truthfully,
> > the shelters are too busy to check into it and see. They would spend
> 99.9%
> > of their time on the phone to different vets trying to do this and some
> > people do them on their own...
> >
> > The implant is for YOUR protection, not to track the animal in the
manner
> > in which I think you mean. If the dog/cat ever got away from you, there
> > would be a way to get it back to you. We honestly wish more people had
> > them when we find their animals...I have seen many kids in tears when
the
> > family pet disappeared or took a dog on vacation and it happened to
break
> > off its leash or slipped its collar and was gone in a flash.
> >
> > Most of what they do on applications/contracts is to make people realize
> > the importance that their pet carries. They are trying to make people
> > responsible for their pets so that our jobs are easier in rescue. If
> > people got their animals spayed and neutered, there would be no real
need
> > for rescue groups anymore. Some countries do not have them as they
> > regulate animal husbandry so much.
> >
> > Our contracts have the same thing on it about taking the dogs back if
not
> > spay/neutered on time and if that and the shots are not done, you could
be
> > fined $150 dollars...it is a protection to the animals who have already
> > been through a lot in their life.
> >
> > At 10:39 PM 12/13/01 +0000, you wrote:
> > >I tried to do that once when dd wanted a kitten. I went to the spca.
> > >What an organization! I would never donate to them or visit them
> > >again. You can't own a pet from there, you "borrow" their pet. You
> > >sign a form stating that the pet will be neutered within a certain
> > >period of time or the cat will be taken back, that the pet will
> > >receive all of its vaccines and the cat will be given an implant that
> > >will allow it to be tracked. And they wonder why people don't adopt
> > >their pets!
> > >Sheila
> > >
> > >c0527c7.jpg
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
> > ________________________________________________________________________
> > ________________________________________________________________________
> >
> > Message: 13
> > Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 19:30:34 -0800
> > From: Tia Leschke <leschke@...>
> > Subject: Re: Holidays
> >
> >
> > >
> > >Each year we pick a different country to "do" for dinner. This year we
> are
> > >doing Germany and the whole menu is from Germany.
> >
> > If you were doing your whole Christmas German, you'd do the presents on
> > Christmas Eve. That's how we always did it when I was little. Now we
do
> > it both ways. Dinner and presents here on Christmas Eve, then dinner
and
> > presents on Christmas Day with Rod's family.
> > Tia
> >
> > No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.
> > Eleanor Roosevelt
> > *********************************************
> > Tia Leschke
> > leschke@...
> > On Vancouver Island
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ________________________________________________________________________
> > ________________________________________________________________________
> >
> > Message: 14
> > Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 23:20:15 -0700
> > From: Diane <cen46624@...>
> > Subject: Re: Re: teethbrushing
> >
> > Leslie wrote:
> >
> > > My dd, that had the cavities as an infant, got her first tooth at four
> months and a day. When the cavities appeared it seemed to happen in an
> instant. One day the teeth looked perfect the next day she had obvious
> decay.
> >
> > Exactly! I thought her tooth had grown in malformed, and our regular
> dentist said it probably had been chipped. Later I realized it was decay,
> after it had spread to the surrounding teeth. We have a dental appointment
> in the morning--took months to get in :-(
> >
> >
> >
> > > Also, if I succumb to an antihistamine, I can breathe
> > > through my nose, but my mouth is even drier. The dentist has said a
dry
> > > mouth is bad for your teeth, just doesn't believe it is causing my
> cavities.
> >
> > There is an artificial saliva product on the market that might help with
> this. I *think* it's available over the counter, and you'd just squirt
some
> in before you go to bed, and maybe when you get up during the night to
keep
> your mouth moist. Might help, might not, but cheap to try, huh?
> >
> > :-) Diane
> >
> >
> >
> > ________________________________________________________________________
> > ________________________________________________________________________
> >
> > Message: 15
> > Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 22:01:09 -0800
> > From: "Lynda" <lurine@...>
> > Subject: Re: Re: Speaking of dogs
> >
> > The application process started because of a problem with some folks
going
> > around to shelters to get animals to sell to labs. Desperate/unethical
> labs
> > will buy anything. Good/ethical labs only buy animals bred for the
> purpose
> > because testing an then be standardized.
> >
> > Lynda
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Jessi <mistycal@...>
> > To: <[email protected]>
> > Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2001 6:04 PM
> > Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Re: Speaking of dogs
> >
> >
> > > Ok, let me see if I can explain some of this while fixing dinner
LOL...
> > >
> > > You have to sign a form from any organization stating that you are
> > adopting
> > > a pet...this is for their records and for the state which does check
> these
> > > out if there is a problem.
> > >
> > > Spay and neutering is also required by 6 months as that is when the
> animal
> > > becomes "adult" and can reproduce. We are all trying to keep the
number
> > of
> > > unwanted animals down so this has to be enforced or well, one cat has
> 3-8
> > > kittens and 6 months later there are say 3 more cats pregnant from
that
> > > litter and so on...also, this is state mandated as well.
> > >
> > > Shots are also a requirement for the health of an animal but
truthfully,
> > > the shelters are too busy to check into it and see. They would spend
> > 99.9%
> > > of their time on the phone to different vets trying to do this and
some
> > > people do them on their own...
> > >
> > > The implant is for YOUR protection, not to track the animal in the
> manner
> > > in which I think you mean. If the dog/cat ever got away from you,
there
> > > would be a way to get it back to you. We honestly wish more people
had
> > > them when we find their animals...I have seen many kids in tears when
> the
> > > family pet disappeared or took a dog on vacation and it happened to
> break
> > > off its leash or slipped its collar and was gone in a flash.
> > >
> > > Most of what they do on applications/contracts is to make people
realize
> > > the importance that their pet carries. They are trying to make people
> > > responsible for their pets so that our jobs are easier in rescue. If
> > > people got their animals spayed and neutered, there would be no real
> need
> > > for rescue groups anymore. Some countries do not have them as they
> > > regulate animal husbandry so much.
> > >
> > > Our contracts have the same thing on it about taking the dogs back if
> not
> > > spay/neutered on time and if that and the shots are not done, you
could
> be
> > > fined $150 dollars...it is a protection to the animals who have
already
> > > been through a lot in their life.
> > >
> > > At 10:39 PM 12/13/01 +0000, you wrote:
> > > >I tried to do that once when dd wanted a kitten. I went to the spca.
> > > >What an organization! I would never donate to them or visit them
> > > >again. You can't own a pet from there, you "borrow" their pet. You
> > > >sign a form stating that the pet will be neutered within a certain
> > > >period of time or the cat will be taken back, that the pet will
> > > >receive all of its vaccines and the cat will be given an implant that
> > > >will allow it to be tracked. And they wonder why people don't adopt
> > > >their pets!
> > > >Sheila
> > > >
> > > >c0527c7.jpg
> > >
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
> > > Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com
> > >
> > > To unsubscribe, set preferences, or read archives:
> > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Unschooling-dotcom
> > >
> > > Another great list sponsored by Home Education Magazine!
> > > http://www.home-ed-magazine.com
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > ________________________________________________________________________
> > ________________________________________________________________________
> >
> > Message: 16
> > Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 04:55:37 -0500
> > From: Fetteroll <fetteroll@...>
> > Subject: Re: Re: Speaking of dogs
> >
> > on 12/13/01 5:39 PM, kayb85 at sheran@... wrote:
> >
> > > I tried to do that once when dd wanted a kitten. I went to the spca.
> > > What an organization! I would never donate to them or visit them
> > > again. You can't own a pet from there, you "borrow" their pet. You
> > > sign a form stating that the pet will be neutered within a certain
> > > period of time or the cat will be taken back, that the pet will
> > > receive all of its vaccines and the cat will be given an implant that
> > > will allow it to be tracked. And they wonder why people don't adopt
> > > their pets!
> >
> > There seem to be even more regulations in Mass and the MSPCA here seems
to
> > be pretty successful in placing pets. At at least one place the animals
> are
> > neutered before they leave the shelter (at 3 months) and most shots are
> > given. And yes the implant is so the owner can (hopefully!) be reunited
> with
> > a lost pet.
> >
> > One place wanted to see either a deed or tax bill to prove home
ownership.
> > The shelters have *lots* of animals turned in because the pet's owners
> moved
> > to a new apartment and the new landlord didn't allow pets.
> >
> > I think they're wonderful! Probably if you saw what they see -- the
> massive
> > number of unplanned kittens and puppies turned in and sick animals and
so
> > forth -- the reasons for the regulations would make a lot more sense.
> >
> > Joyce
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
> > ________________________________________________________________________
> > ________________________________________________________________________
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
> Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
> Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com
>
> To unsubscribe, set preferences, or read archives:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Unschooling-dotcom
>
> Another great list sponsored by Home Education Magazine!
> http://www.home-ed-magazine.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>

Lynda

There is a third category we use to see where I worked. They were usually
from upper middle class and well to do families. It was like the parents
had kids because it was the thing to do and then they ignored them. Kinda
like some folks buy pets and then ignore them. And then when there was a
problem, it was "I just don't understand" and "How can he/she/they do this
to me."

Lynda
----- Original Message -----
From: rumpleteasermom <rumpleteasermom@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, December 14, 2001 6:34 AM
Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] Re: Random Musings


> I guess my think ing is this . . .
> I know lots of assicts and alcoholics. Theya ll seem to fall into
> two categories . . . those who came from poor innercity places where
> drinking and drugs were an escape of sorts and a way to cope the
> otehr type are those who come from mid to upper-class homes where
> they were expected to be exactly what the parents wanted or the
> parents were very authoritarian or who were never shown love, only
> given stuff and money.
> But I can't think of a simgle person who had parents who were
> interrested in them but not in a controlling way who went on to have
> these problems.
> But I can only say that in anecdotal at best and can't be used as a
> complete model of reality. It is truly just what I see around me and
> have experienced in the past.
>
> Bridget
>
> --- In Unschooling-dotcom@y..., "Joseph Fuerst" <fuerst@f...> wrote:
> > All I could find was a study indicating that mothers who abuse
> substnces
> > (alcohol/drugs) are more punitive in their discipline.
> >
> > My guess would be that the ones in "strict" (i.e., controlling)
> homes would
> > tend to rebel more strongly..... since their natural tendencies to
> assert
> > individuality were likely squelched. But rebellion can take many
> forms. I
> > wonder if many youngsters wandering into the oath of drug and
> alcohol abuse
> > do it more as a coping response to pain and lonliness in their
> lives.
> > Susan
>
>
>
>
> Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
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>
> To unsubscribe, set preferences, or read archives:
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>
> Another great list sponsored by Home Education Magazine!
> http://www.home-ed-magazine.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>