that old monster Socialization!
[email protected]
This is just a thought I have been tossing around for a week or so now...
I am a nurse, and work nights in a nursing home, sometimes I fill in days on
the weekends. There is a mother and her daughter who come in every morning
around 5am and don't leave until around 10 at night, to take care of the
mother's father. The granddaughter looks about 12, very small and mousy,
extremely shy, you all know the type. Much to my surprise, I found out the
girl is almost 20! She is homeschooled still, (she has no disabilities) she
told me she doesn't participate in any activities, except helping her mom
care for her grandfather. She does her school work at a table in the common
area with her mom and grandfather sitting right there.
Now I don't want to come across a judgmental, but do any of you ever meet
families like this? Families that personify the stereotype some of us still
battle against with some of our friends and families of the unsocialized
child who never goes anywhere or does anything and has no friends? And what
are your feelings about families such as this one?
My MIL is constantly calling with the suggestion of this activity or another.
A common phone conversation with her goes something like this:
MIL: I read in the paper/saw on XYZ program that homeschooled children fall
behind in social skills...Blah blah blah... thank goodness you sent Jack to
school... how is Moly doing with her "Little school"....shouldn't you send
her with Jack too?
ME: Thanks for the suggestions. I'll keep it in mind, do you want to talk to
Darin?
I don't worry about my kids socialization. Because mine are the type that if
there is nothing going on, (no music lessons to go to, or soccer or softball
or bowling teams practicing that day) they will inevitably find some
neighborhood child to play with, or some activity they want to go to at the
local community center. They are just very outgoing, friendly children who
will never lack for "social skills" They could find friends in the backwoods
of Alaska.
So I guess my question is this, do any of you ever run across that odd family
who's children truly are unsocialized, and what are your feelings about that,
and what do you feel the impact on the rest of the homeschooling community
is? (homeschooling community as a whole, not just unschoolers) Or is this
just a non-issue for some of you?
Nancy
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I am a nurse, and work nights in a nursing home, sometimes I fill in days on
the weekends. There is a mother and her daughter who come in every morning
around 5am and don't leave until around 10 at night, to take care of the
mother's father. The granddaughter looks about 12, very small and mousy,
extremely shy, you all know the type. Much to my surprise, I found out the
girl is almost 20! She is homeschooled still, (she has no disabilities) she
told me she doesn't participate in any activities, except helping her mom
care for her grandfather. She does her school work at a table in the common
area with her mom and grandfather sitting right there.
Now I don't want to come across a judgmental, but do any of you ever meet
families like this? Families that personify the stereotype some of us still
battle against with some of our friends and families of the unsocialized
child who never goes anywhere or does anything and has no friends? And what
are your feelings about families such as this one?
My MIL is constantly calling with the suggestion of this activity or another.
A common phone conversation with her goes something like this:
MIL: I read in the paper/saw on XYZ program that homeschooled children fall
behind in social skills...Blah blah blah... thank goodness you sent Jack to
school... how is Moly doing with her "Little school"....shouldn't you send
her with Jack too?
ME: Thanks for the suggestions. I'll keep it in mind, do you want to talk to
Darin?
I don't worry about my kids socialization. Because mine are the type that if
there is nothing going on, (no music lessons to go to, or soccer or softball
or bowling teams practicing that day) they will inevitably find some
neighborhood child to play with, or some activity they want to go to at the
local community center. They are just very outgoing, friendly children who
will never lack for "social skills" They could find friends in the backwoods
of Alaska.
So I guess my question is this, do any of you ever run across that odd family
who's children truly are unsocialized, and what are your feelings about that,
and what do you feel the impact on the rest of the homeschooling community
is? (homeschooling community as a whole, not just unschoolers) Or is this
just a non-issue for some of you?
Nancy
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
Addendum to my last post:
Do any of you ever notice how some folks equate social skills with having
friends? What I mean here is that sometimes people say "What about social
skills?" and immediately follow up with "Don't you worry your kids won't have
any friends?" To me, having friends and social skills are two different
things. I know lots of folks who have really crappy social skills, but still
have friends, and I know others who have great social skills and no friends.
Nancy
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Do any of you ever notice how some folks equate social skills with having
friends? What I mean here is that sometimes people say "What about social
skills?" and immediately follow up with "Don't you worry your kids won't have
any friends?" To me, having friends and social skills are two different
things. I know lots of folks who have really crappy social skills, but still
have friends, and I know others who have great social skills and no friends.
Nancy
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
rumpleteasermom
--- In Unschooling-dotcom@y..., Sarah Carothers <puddles@t...> wrote:
homeschoolers. I only ever met one person for whom I thought there
needed to be "something done" for the child. In that case, I had
contact with an aunt by (recent) marriage who came to me for advice.
The mother of the 12 year old girl was agoraphobic and never left her
house. The reason she homeschooled was that her agoraphobia extended
itself to fear of her daughter leaving the house too. The child
seemed miserable to the aunt. My advice to her, was to try to get
close to the girl and see if together they could persuade the mom to
either seek treatment for herself or at the very least let the aunt
take the girl out sometimes. It was IMHO a very precarious
situation. I suspect CPS would have removed the girl had there been
a report filed, but I suspect that would have made the situation
worse.
Unfortunately, I lost contact with the aunt, so I don't know how it
all turned out. The last I heard, her efforts to befriend them both
were looking pretty good.
Overall, I think a good rule of thumb is: Are the kids happy? I too
have one who was a little less than talkative. She is coming out of
her shell now though.
Bridget
> Dear Nancy,(to
> I would hate to be critical of this family because of their weird
> me) behaviour. I have no idea what has brought them to this pointand
> .... well, I just couldn't judge them.I've met and talked to loads of homeschoolers and people who knew
homeschoolers. I only ever met one person for whom I thought there
needed to be "something done" for the child. In that case, I had
contact with an aunt by (recent) marriage who came to me for advice.
The mother of the 12 year old girl was agoraphobic and never left her
house. The reason she homeschooled was that her agoraphobia extended
itself to fear of her daughter leaving the house too. The child
seemed miserable to the aunt. My advice to her, was to try to get
close to the girl and see if together they could persuade the mom to
either seek treatment for herself or at the very least let the aunt
take the girl out sometimes. It was IMHO a very precarious
situation. I suspect CPS would have removed the girl had there been
a report filed, but I suspect that would have made the situation
worse.
Unfortunately, I lost contact with the aunt, so I don't know how it
all turned out. The last I heard, her efforts to befriend them both
were looking pretty good.
Overall, I think a good rule of thumb is: Are the kids happy? I too
have one who was a little less than talkative. She is coming out of
her shell now though.
Bridget
kaydeecross
--- In Unschooling-dotcom@y..., OZMOM504@A... wrote:
the kids don't socialize. Or worse, they don't associate with people
outside their culture.
In the last place I worked full-time, the owner of the company had two
sisters and one brother. Everyone was over 40. Only one of the sisters
was married and had 'friends'. The other three still lived at home with
mother and father. None of them really had any friends outside
eachother. All were public schooled. (Two of them never even been on a
date!)
So, what I'm experiencing is that the social thing isn't a product of
the school thing. These are two seperate issues.
Regards,
Kolleen
> So I guess my question is this, do any of you ever run across that odd familyI can remember quite a few families that public or private school and
> who's children truly are unsocialized, and what are your feelings about that,
> and what do you feel the impact on the rest of the homeschooling community
> is? (homeschooling community as a whole, not just unschoolers) Or is this
> just a non-issue for some of you?
> Nancy
>
the kids don't socialize. Or worse, they don't associate with people
outside their culture.
In the last place I worked full-time, the owner of the company had two
sisters and one brother. Everyone was over 40. Only one of the sisters
was married and had 'friends'. The other three still lived at home with
mother and father. None of them really had any friends outside
eachother. All were public schooled. (Two of them never even been on a
date!)
So, what I'm experiencing is that the social thing isn't a product of
the school thing. These are two seperate issues.
Regards,
Kolleen
kaydeecross
--- In Unschooling-dotcom@y..., OZMOM504@A... wrote:
unschooling. My son is very outgoing and friendly. He makes
acquaintences whenever we go out.
He has no siblings. And I find that age interaction and conversation is
one of the best ways to learn.
When we were on the left coast, he was in a democratic school and had
conversation all day long with lots of other children. (I remember the
day he came home talking about his 10yo friend being 'Pissed Off'. He
sat in the hallway talking until he finally exclaimed 'I got it!!!
Pissed Off has nothing to do with taking a piss.) [sorry for the
crudeness, its is the gist of the story] But I thought it was great.
Now were on the other coast, in an area that isn't as safe and free to
let him roam up and down the block and the people we meet when we go
out isn't the same as being in an atmosphere of 5-10-15 kids of various
ages all having conversation throughout the day.
The karate, the basketball and the gymnastics don't seem to have the
same thing as days of just talking with other children.
He tells me that he misses that atmosphere. As of now, I can't
duplicate it.
Suggestions anyone?
Regards,
Kolleen
> I don't worry about my kids socialization. Because mine are the type that ifThis spurns in me prolly the ONLY concern I have with our home/
> there is nothing going on, (no music lessons to go to, or soccer or softball
> or bowling teams practicing that day) they will inevitably find some
> neighborhood child to play with, or some activity they want to go to at the
> local community center. They are just very outgoing, friendly children who
> will never lack for "social skills" They could find friends in the backwoods
> of Alaska.
unschooling. My son is very outgoing and friendly. He makes
acquaintences whenever we go out.
He has no siblings. And I find that age interaction and conversation is
one of the best ways to learn.
When we were on the left coast, he was in a democratic school and had
conversation all day long with lots of other children. (I remember the
day he came home talking about his 10yo friend being 'Pissed Off'. He
sat in the hallway talking until he finally exclaimed 'I got it!!!
Pissed Off has nothing to do with taking a piss.) [sorry for the
crudeness, its is the gist of the story] But I thought it was great.
Now were on the other coast, in an area that isn't as safe and free to
let him roam up and down the block and the people we meet when we go
out isn't the same as being in an atmosphere of 5-10-15 kids of various
ages all having conversation throughout the day.
The karate, the basketball and the gymnastics don't seem to have the
same thing as days of just talking with other children.
He tells me that he misses that atmosphere. As of now, I can't
duplicate it.
Suggestions anyone?
Regards,
Kolleen
Helen Hegener
At 2:14 AM -0500 12/10/01, OZMOM504@... wrote:
Couldn't let this one pass without comment. <g>
I know people have preconceptions, but I've found some of the most
awesome socialization I've ever seen in those so-called backwoods of
Alaska. Out there where cabins can be few and far between I've been
privvy to a culture where people still care about each other, still
take soup to their sick neighbors, still gather for holidays, still
check to see if anyone needs anything before they head off to town -
because town might be a hundred miles away or more and involve a
major expedition. If there was ever a place where it's easy as pie to
find friends, it's those backwoods of Alaska.
I'm leaving for there this evening, and can't wait to get back and
visit friends I made when living in those backwoods 35 years ago.
But I appreciated your post nonetheless, and have appreciated the
good replies it generated.
Helen
> They could find friends in the backwoodsReading posts backwards again.
>of Alaska.
Couldn't let this one pass without comment. <g>
I know people have preconceptions, but I've found some of the most
awesome socialization I've ever seen in those so-called backwoods of
Alaska. Out there where cabins can be few and far between I've been
privvy to a culture where people still care about each other, still
take soup to their sick neighbors, still gather for holidays, still
check to see if anyone needs anything before they head off to town -
because town might be a hundred miles away or more and involve a
major expedition. If there was ever a place where it's easy as pie to
find friends, it's those backwoods of Alaska.
I'm leaving for there this evening, and can't wait to get back and
visit friends I made when living in those backwoods 35 years ago.
But I appreciated your post nonetheless, and have appreciated the
good replies it generated.
Helen
[email protected]
In a message dated 12/10/01 8:18:55 AM Central Standard Time,
puddles@... writes:
say something to them. I was just tossing out my perceptions here on list,
because I wonder how you all feel when meeting a family like this.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
puddles@... writes:
> I would hate to be critical of this family because of their weird (toOH I totally agree on not being critical of them! I would never presume to
> me) behavior. I have no idea what has brought them to this point and
> .... well, I just couldn't judge them. If it bothers you that the
> student (20 did you say??) isn't doing something, perhaps you could
> invite her to join your family on a field trip or some xmas
> gathering?
>
say something to them. I was just tossing out my perceptions here on list,
because I wonder how you all feel when meeting a family like this.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sarah Carothers
Dear Nancy,
I would hate to be critical of this family because of their weird (to
me) behaviour. I have no idea what has brought them to this point and
.... well, I just couldn't judge them. If it bothers you that the
student (20 did you say??) isn't doing something, perhaps you could
invite her to join your family on a field trip or some xmas
gathering?
On a personal level, I have one extroverted kid and one introverted.
IMO, any outsider would say 'my, what a great socialized kid the
extroverted one is' and the comments about the introvert would be
quite the opposite. They (the critics or outsiders) don't know enough
about our situation to judge either nor should they form an opinion
about homeschooling based on either single child.
I think lots of folks who are ignorant and against homeschooling
will look for the odd, the peculiar and point to that child and say,
"see?! I told you so. Those homeschoolers are an ODD bunch!".
Their problem, not mine.
Sarah
I would hate to be critical of this family because of their weird (to
me) behaviour. I have no idea what has brought them to this point and
.... well, I just couldn't judge them. If it bothers you that the
student (20 did you say??) isn't doing something, perhaps you could
invite her to join your family on a field trip or some xmas
gathering?
On a personal level, I have one extroverted kid and one introverted.
IMO, any outsider would say 'my, what a great socialized kid the
extroverted one is' and the comments about the introvert would be
quite the opposite. They (the critics or outsiders) don't know enough
about our situation to judge either nor should they form an opinion
about homeschooling based on either single child.
I think lots of folks who are ignorant and against homeschooling
will look for the odd, the peculiar and point to that child and say,
"see?! I told you so. Those homeschoolers are an ODD bunch!".
Their problem, not mine.
Sarah
On Mon, 10 Dec 2001 02:14:09 EST, OZMOM504@... wrote:
>
>Now I don't want to come across a judgmental, but do
>any of you ever meet
>families like this? Families that personify the
>stereotype some of us still
>battle against with some of our friends and families
>of the unsocialized
>child who never goes anywhere or does anything and has
>no friends? And what
>are your feelings about families such as this one?
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sarah Carothers
On Tue, 11 Dec 2001 00:04:05 EST, OZMOM504@... wrote:
weird is how I feel.
:-)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>oh! ....
>OH I totally agree on not being critical of them! I
>would never presume to
>say something to them. I was just tossing out my
>perceptions here on list,
>because I wonder how you all feel when meeting a
>family like this.
weird is how I feel.
:-)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]