[email protected]

On Sun, 9 Dec 2001 12:04:03 EST RValvo7626@... writes:
> I write my Fs backwards in cursive. My handwriting is so meshed it
is
> definitely my own style.Printing and cursive together w/ my own way.

Cursive was the one class I failed all through school, and my dad is the
same way. My mom has lovely handwriting, but she's been quite ill with
cancer and was actually admitted to the hospital this morning. :-(
Anyway, Cacie wants to do it "right", the mishmash my dad and I use just
doesn't cut it for her...

Dar
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Jennifer Deets

Hi Dar. I'm sorry to hear about your mom. I'll keep her and you in my thoughts.
Jennifer

----- Original Message -----
From: freeform@...
To: [email protected]
Cc: [email protected]
Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2001 2:35 PM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] cursive




On Sun, 9 Dec 2001 12:04:03 EST RValvo7626@... writes:
> I write my Fs backwards in cursive. My handwriting is so meshed it
is
> definitely my own style.Printing and cursive together w/ my own way.

Cursive was the one class I failed all through school, and my dad is the
same way. My mom has lovely handwriting, but she's been quite ill with
cancer and was actually admitted to the hospital this morning. :-(
Anyway, Cacie wants to do it "right", the mishmash my dad and I use just
doesn't cut it for her...

Dar
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Diane

I did a Google search for "cursive worksheets free" and got a bunch of hits. Here
are a couple that may be interesting: This one is a bunch of links to stuff.
http://www.abcteach.com/DNealian/DNealianTOC.htm

This is just the capital F:
http://worksheets.teach-nology.com/language_arts/handwriting/cursive/upper/upf/

Good luck with both the writing and your mother's illness. Hope she's OK.

:-) Diane


> Cursive was the one class I failed all through school, and my dad is the
> same way. My mom has lovely handwriting, but she's been quite ill with
> cancer and was actually admitted to the hospital this morning. :-(
> Anyway, Cacie wants to do it "right", the mishmash my dad and I use just
> doesn't cut it for her...
>
> Dar

zenmomma *

>>How did she start cursive writing? That one is a real 'struggle" for us.
>>Any tips?>>

Well, it wasn't something I decided it was time to learn. Casey decided when
she was 4 years old that she wanted to write in cursive. :-/ I showed her
how to write her first name and she did her own version of it. That
satisfied her for about a year. When she asked for more, I gave her more.

Over the years we've played with it a lot. She's traced my letters, done
cursive workbooks, tried to write in cursive to a penpal. She really likes
to write, so there are many, many opportunities for her to do a cursive word
or phrase here and there. I remember that playing fairies tended to need
cursive writing. I guess fairies wouldn't write in plain old block letters.
;-) Oh, and her signature got really good when she was practicing her
autograph for if she's ever famous. LOL!

That's a typically Casey story, actually. And I should point out right up
front that Conor does not write in cursive, and that's okay too. :o) No
struggles.

Life is good.
~Mary



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kaydeecross

> >>How did she start cursive writing? That one is a real 'struggle"
for us.
> >>Any tips?>>
>

Who is cursive important to?

Its not a necessary function of getting on with one's life. Printing
is fine, and a typewriter is great.

Was it John Taylor Gatto's book that listed the reason cursive was
brought into schools? I can't remember offhand. I'd look it up but I
decided to stay longer on my trip and don't have access to things I
need right now.

Either way, if a child really WANTS to learn it, practice, practice,
practice.

Just think about who's agenda it is as to why it's a 'struggle', yah
know?

kolleen

zenmomma *

>>Do you remember how this came about? I find my daughter has a hard time
>>writing, She is 7, and seems to not want to write anything because she is
>>such a perfectionist that if it not perfect, she gets really mad at
>>herself.>>

As I posted before, Casey LOVES to write just for the fun of it. Always has.
It's just a part of who she is. A big part. I sometimes say she was born
with a pencil in her hand. (Although I'm certain that would have hurt. :-o)
So I was moving from that point of joy and interest in her. It was not
something I was trying to get her to learn. And even still, all of her
cursive is not "beautiful". But her sig is gorgeous. ;-)

Casey is also a big time perfectionist. She's ripped up more pages than I
can count. I try to help her through, pointing out the obvious "it doesn't
have to be perfect" stuff. At the same time I try to honor her need for a
what she considers a "perfect" product. I like to tell her that if I ever
needed brain surgery, I'd hope my surgeon was as precise as she is. :o)

>>Her writing at this point is far from perfect - as is her spelling->>

When Casey is writing for need or meaning, her writing is fast and furious.
Her spelling is also inventive, but getting better all the time. How? She
asks me, I tell her, she writes it down. It may take 100 tries per word, but
she's getting there joyfully and with no pressure.

>>I have used Math curriculum in the past and she is great with math - She
>>reads really well, but I have never used a phonics, spelling, writing
>>curriculum and was wondering if there was a connection there?>>

Casey's never used a structured curriculum of any kind. At times she's
played around in workbooks, or the Phonics Game (her request :-P~~~) or
whatever, but always in a light, take it or leave it kind of way. I don't
think kids need a structured approach to learn to spell. Casey is making her
connections with words and their spellings all the time. She writes because
it's fun. If it wasn't fun, I wouldn't MAKE her for the sake of some
suggestion or schedule in some book. (Not saying anyone is doing that BTW.
:o))

>>Do you have any suggestions on what helps writing, and spelling develop?>>

Writing for the joy and usefulness it brings. Reading for the joy and
usefulness it brings. Seeing words used in the real world. Having a mom (or
dad) around to answer questions, provide spellings and maybe point out a
phonics rule in a light, matter of fact way.

>>I have also read that sometimes motor skills develop at different levels
>> >>

Well, of course they do. :o) Kids don't all learn to walk or talk or ride
bikes at the same age, right?

>>- I notice she really presses hard with her pens/pencils - she says her
>>hand hurts - maybe she just isn't ready?>>

Maybe. I would certainly not force any writing on a child with complaints
like that. Practice won't help, it'll just make her hand hurt more and
possibly build up a hatred for writing. And it makes it hard to separate the
idea of writing (Hey, I have a story I'd like to tell!) and writing (Gee,
how do people get their leters so neat?).

Conor had those same complaints too. He's more drawn to keyboards these
days. His dad tries to handwrite as little as possible, too. Conor finds
that pencil grips, fatter pencils, and squeezy hand relaxing toys help when
he does have to handwrite. He's almost 13 and right now most of his
handwriting involves cheat codes for computer games.

>>I really try not to worry about it - but it's hard ... I think
being able to write(not necessarily beautiful) and clearly express yourself
is important.>>

There are so many different ways to express ourselves. I don't think
writing,or even words are the only way. Try to relax and let your still very
young daughter ease into it at her own speed. If you focus too much on
writing skills, you may miss her passion or talent in another area of
expression.

Life is good.
~Mary


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[email protected]

In a message dated 3/25/02 9:32:19 AM, zenmomma@... writes:

<< >>- I notice she really presses hard with her pens/pencils - she says her
>>hand hurts - maybe she just isn't ready?>>

<<Maybe. I would certainly not force any writing on a child with complaints
like that. >>

Me either. But I wouldn't force any writing on a child who had no complaints
or pains, either.

Believing that writing is important but that it's a natural part of
everything, I think it should be treated like the fun, special, magical thing
it is. Just like watching musicals, or making cookies, or riding bikes on a
breezy day when the clouds are beautiful.

If writing is treated like drudgery, it becomes drudgery.
If it is treated like a sweet magic trick, it is that.

(I started to say "like spinach instead of cake," but realized Holly loves
spinach, and doesn't much like cake, so that example isn't even so good.)

Sandra, who used to teach writing for money--
not handwriting, but composition

[email protected]

In a message dated 3/29/02 8:33:28 AM, SandraDodd@... writes:

<< Sandra, who used to teach writing for money--
not handwriting, but composition
>>

Wow. Another days-old post.

But reading it to see what I said the other day made me remember that I have
taught calligraphy for money a couple of times (once a workshop at an art
school, and once a series through community education).

Sandra

Bonni Sollars

I know from reading manuscripts of Abe Lincoln, that he wrote all his
correspondence in cursive. Maybe it was just a fast way of writing, and
now that we have keyboards and most applications require printing, it
isn't really necessary. Neither, I think, are non-digital clocks.
Bonni

zenmomma *

<< >>- I notice she really presses hard with her pens/pencils - she says her
hand hurts - maybe she just isn't ready?>>
<<Maybe. I would certainly not force any writing on a child with complaints
like that. >>

>>Me either. But I wouldn't force any writing on a child who had no
>>complaints or pains, either.>>

Absolutely! I could have worded that better. :-/

Life is good.
~Mary










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[email protected]

In a message dated 3/29/02 1:35:11 PM, BSOLLARS@... writes:

<< I know from reading manuscripts of Abe Lincoln, that he wrote all his
correspondence in cursive. Maybe it was just a fast way of writing, and
now that we have keyboards and most applications require printing, it
isn't really necessary. Neither, I think, are non-digital clocks. >>

When using a dip pen ("real" pen and ink), there are advantages to not
picking the pen up, and so cursive is a way to write while the ink's still
flowing.

Non-digital clocks are called analog clocks. They're not "necessary," but
there are umpty million of them in the world, some a few hundred years old.
Some are incredible marvels of engineering. And mathematically, a digital
clock don't furnish the same amount of information an analog clock does.

Now that we have cars, horses aren't really necessary.
Now that we have plastic shoes, leather shoes aren't really necessary.
Now that we have grocery stores, growing our own food isn't really necessary.
Now that we have recorded music, singing at home isn't necessary.

All technically true, but...
Some things are beautiful arts on their on, without regard for the options or
what is more expedient or more modern.

Sandra

Heather Woodward

I just wanted to thank everyone who responded to my posts about handwriting... it was helpful to hear your thoughts and suggestions... the larger pencils, just letting it go...

She did pick out a journal and a bunch of gel pens the other day at Staples ( on her own ;) and was proud to show me her page she wrote - I bought as well a gel pad that didn't have lines - so she could just doodle....

I am sure it will just work out naturally - it is hard - at least for me, not to analyze it all too much...

Heather
----- Original Message -----
From: SandraDodd@...
To: [email protected]
Sent: Monday, March 25, 2002 11:45 AM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] cursive



In a message dated 3/25/02 9:32:19 AM, zenmomma@... writes:

<< >>- I notice she really presses hard with her pens/pencils - she says her
>>hand hurts - maybe she just isn't ready?>>

<<Maybe. I would certainly not force any writing on a child with complaints
like that. >>

Me either. But I wouldn't force any writing on a child who had no complaints
or pains, either.

Believing that writing is important but that it's a natural part of
everything, I think it should be treated like the fun, special, magical thing
it is. Just like watching musicals, or making cookies, or riding bikes on a
breezy day when the clouds are beautiful.

If writing is treated like drudgery, it becomes drudgery.
If it is treated like a sweet magic trick, it is that.

(I started to say "like spinach instead of cake," but realized Holly loves
spinach, and doesn't much like cake, so that example isn't even so good.)

Sandra, who used to teach writing for money--
not handwriting, but composition



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Lynda

O.K., grammar police, where are you <g> I use to teach writing for money,
that would be grantwriting <g> And I use to write for money, also.

Lynda
----- Original Message -----
From: <SandraDodd@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, March 29, 2002 8:21 AM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] cursive


>
> In a message dated 3/29/02 8:33:28 AM, SandraDodd@... writes:
>
> << Sandra, who used to teach writing for money--
> not handwriting, but composition
> >>
>
> Wow. Another days-old post.
>
> But reading it to see what I said the other day made me remember that I
have
> taught calligraphy for money a couple of times (once a workshop at an art
> school, and once a series through community education).
>
> Sandra
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> [email protected]
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

[email protected]

Um, grammar police here, you called? Sandra was correct with "used to".
You are incorrect with "use to". Was there a point to that?

Dar
On Fri, 29 Mar 2002 17:42:51 -0800 "Lynda" <lurine@...> writes:
> O.K., grammar police, where are you <g> I use to teach writing for
> money, that would be grantwriting <g> And I use to write for money,
also.
>
> Lynda
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <SandraDodd@...>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Friday, March 29, 2002 8:21 AM
> Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] cursive
>
>
> >
> > In a message dated 3/29/02 8:33:28 AM, SandraDodd@... writes:
> >
> > << Sandra, who used to teach writing for money--
> > not handwriting, but composition
> >

Lynda

I thought it was funny that she stated that she wrote for money, which I
actually did. She was paid to teach writing. So, in your jump to defend,
you missed the point.

Lynda
----- Original Message -----
From: <freeform@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Cc: <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, March 29, 2002 6:23 PM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] cursive


> Um, grammar police here, you called? Sandra was correct with "used to".
> You are incorrect with "use to". Was there a point to that?
>
> Dar
> On Fri, 29 Mar 2002 17:42:51 -0800 "Lynda" <lurine@...> writes:
> > O.K., grammar police, where are you <g> I use to teach writing for
> > money, that would be grantwriting <g> And I use to write for money,
> also.
> >
> > Lynda
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: <SandraDodd@...>
> > To: <[email protected]>
> > Sent: Friday, March 29, 2002 8:21 AM
> > Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] cursive
> >
> >
> > >
> > > In a message dated 3/29/02 8:33:28 AM, SandraDodd@... writes:
> > >
> > > << Sandra, who used to teach writing for money--
> > > not handwriting, but composition
> > >
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> [email protected]
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

rumpleteasermom

--- In Unschooling-dotcom@y..., Bonni Sollars <BSOLLARS@J...> wrote:
> Neither, I think, are non-digital clocks.

You want confusing . . . we have a three stooges clock that runs
counter clockwise. The numbers are all reversed. Now, I can't tell
time on my watch darn it!!!

Bridget

marji

At 13:17 3/30/02 +0000, you wrote:

>You want confusing . . . we have a three stooges clock that runs
>counter clockwise. The numbers are all reversed. Now, I can't tell
>time on my watch darn it!!!

I remember a clock like that at a friend's house when I was a teenager. In
retrospect, confusing though it was, I thought learning how to tell time
backwards broadened my mind in some way. I was grateful for the experience.

Marji


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

rumpleteasermom

--- In Unschooling-dotcom@y..., marji <zintz@w...> wrote:

>
> I remember a clock like that at a friend's house when I was a
teenager. In
> retrospect, confusing though it was, I thought learning how to tell
time
> backwards broadened my mind in some way. I was grateful for the
experience.
>
> Marji
>

It is a lesson in observation, I'll say that. It makes you think
about how you see things. If you look at that clock and you see ten
till two, but you know it is evening . . . you then have to look
closely at what the numbers say.

My problem now is that while I was recouping from surgery I spent most
of my time in that room so now I have to look closely at my watch
because my eye reads as if I'm looking at that clock.

Bridget

[email protected]

In a message dated 3/30/02 12:25:50 AM, lurine@... writes:

<< I thought it was funny that she stated that she wrote for money, which I
actually did. She was paid to teach writing. So, in your jump to defend,
you missed the point.
>>

That would not be a matter for the grammar police, would it?

I have written for money too. We were talking about teaching writing, prior
to that. I still write but I don't still teach. I was talking about past
situations now gone.

It is my opinion that your writing skills would be more beneficial to others
if you would write about unschooling on the unschooling list instead of
writing about your personal frustrations and irritations.

My oldest two are writing nearly every day in online role playing games which
ONLY exist in writing. I think it's so cool that they're involved in
real-time writing--type and send, without revision. And the immediate result
is a response from another role player, and an effect on the game. Our only
similarity as kids would have been notes passed in class (BIG sin in school).
Letters through the mail took days or weeks, but this takes seconds, and
they'll do it for hours.

People with kids on AOL might want to recommend this to them. It's called
"Alliance of Nations," and is played on a bulletin board and in chatrooms.
Kids register a character and stay in persona. There are dice rolls
sometimes (with the online dice), and there are scores to report.

Sandra

Bonni Sollars

---Some things are beautiful arts on their own, without regard for the
options or
what is more expedient or more modern.---

I so agree. I'm just saying this, because my 7 year old daughter does
not see the sense in using our round clock in the kitchen when it
requires so much more work than the bedroom digital clock. After I
thought about it, I could understand her logic. I guess I'll have to
wait until she sees the fun in it.
Bonni

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

rumpleteasermom

--- In Unschooling-dotcom@y..., SandraDodd@a... wrote:
>
> In a message dated 3/30/02 12:25:50 AM, lurine@s... writes:
>
> << I thought it was funny that she stated that she wrote for money,
which I
> actually did. She was paid to teach writing. So, in your jump to
defend,
> you missed the point.
> >>
>
> That would not be a matter for the grammar police, would it?


Well yes actually, I believe misplaced and ambiguous modifiers do fall
under grammar. I thought it was funny.

Bridget

Mary Broussard

At our unschooling resource center there is a clock with the numbers all scrambled at the bottom of the clock and in the middle it says. . ."whatever". I LOVE this clock! LOL

Mary
----- Original Message -----
From: rumpleteasermom
To: [email protected]
Sent: Saturday, March 30, 2002 8:17 AM
Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] Re: cursive


--- In Unschooling-dotcom@y..., Bonni Sollars <BSOLLARS@J...> wrote:
> Neither, I think, are non-digital clocks.

You want confusing . . . we have a three stooges clock that runs
counter clockwise. The numbers are all reversed. Now, I can't tell
time on my watch darn it!!!

Bridget




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