Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Digest Number 1677
[email protected]
In a message dated 12/9/01 4:52:29 AM Mountain Standard Time,
[email protected] writes:
them.
NICKI~
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected] writes:
> So I say, go ahead andCan you explain how these work? I haven't even seen them just heard of
> buy some stuff (I like Cuisenaire rods, too), but for goodness’ sake let
> your kids play with it ON THEIR OWN.
>
>
them.
NICKI~
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 12/9/01 4:52:29 AM Mountain Standard Time,
[email protected] writes:
attack my mother hit me w/ I need some mental soothing.
TIA NICKI~ Zoe is 5 1/2
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected] writes:
> She'll be 9 next month,Can you boost me here and tell me how things are and were. After the
attack my mother hit me w/ I need some mental soothing.
TIA NICKI~ Zoe is 5 1/2
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 12/9/01 4:52:29 AM Mountain Standard Time,
[email protected] writes:
definitely my own style.Printing and cursive together w/ my own way.
NICKI~
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected] writes:
> we're now on F, and I went to a wacky school and learned some form ofI write my Fs backwards in cursive. My handwriting is so meshed it is
> cursive that no one else has ever seen, and my Fs and Ts look weird...
definitely my own style.Printing and cursive together w/ my own way.
NICKI~
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 12/9/01 4:52:29 AM Mountain Standard Time,
[email protected] writes:
there is any) b/t writing and reading.
NICKI~
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected] writes:
> Actually, Cacie wrote more when she was 3 and 4 than when she was 6 andWhat age did she read at again? Just curious about the connection (if
> 7. I think back then there wasn't this big discrepancy between her
> writing ability and her reading ability - she was satisfied with pretty
> simple stuff. Now she's not, she wants to be able to write stories like
> the ones she reads, and she just can't write like A. Conan Doyle. We
> tried the dictating thing but she never really liked it..
>
>
there is any) b/t writing and reading.
NICKI~
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Elsa Haas
Nicki,
Cuisenaire rods are small, six-sided rods. Actually, the smallest is a white cube - picture something a little smaller than a standard die. The next size up is a different color and is the size of two of those cubes. The next size up is still another color and is the size of three of the cubes. And so on, with the longest rod being the size of ten cubes. They don't have any numbers, dots or other markings on them. They're made of either plastic or painted wood (I find the wooden ones beautiful and made sure to get those, just out of aesthetics).
The idea is for kids to initially just play with them, gaining a feel for their different sizes. Later, there are things you can do with them that are more obviously numerical.
There's something called Miquon Math, which is a series of booklets covering the math typically taught up through (I think) grade six, but in which the kids use the rods to figure out the answers to the problems. I think that if you're going to do "school math", it makes sense for the kids to actually get their hands on something like this, rather than expecting them to just memorize a bunch of "number facts". The problems involve laying the rods out to cover a certain area, building little staircases, and so on. It can be like doing a puzzle.
John Holt is worth reading on the use of these rods, in How Children Fail. Among other things, he describes a mentally handicapped young man fearfully working with the rods and then suddenly, in the absence of pressure to perform, joyously discovering some basic math concept. I think he was using them in a demonstration class led by Caleb (?) Gattegno, who was involved in inventing the rods or developing the methods used.
I remember that one thing John said was that the kids in his own classes were not supposed to refer to the rods by number, but rather by color ("I need a green one here", for example), but that they always ended up breaking this "rule". The rule was supposed to free them to make their own discoveries without worrying about "numbers" as such, but of course any rule like this can end up seeming like the work of the Thought Police.
I think it was Alfie Kohn (maybe in Punished By Rewards) who described an experiment in which one group of kids was given the rods to play with however they wished. (One child might make believe the biggest rod was the daddy, another the mommy, another the family dog, while another child might pretend the rods were various makes of cars and trucks.) The kids in this group, when later given problems to solve using the rods, were much quicker at it than were kids who either had been given no opportunity to touch or use the rods in any way beforehand, or who had been given "instruction" in their various properties.
Or maybe it was John who described that study. I do remember that somewhere in John's writings, he says that teachers at some Montessori schools do not allow the children to use the Montessori materials (blocks, puzzles, rings on posts, cylinders, and so on) creatively - that if they do try to use them for fantasy play, the teacher takes them away, saying, "I see you're not ready to use this yet." (Presumably they are supposed to use only the DOLLS in the classroom to play "House", and so on.)
John said he thought these teachers didn't really understand that play is the way children explore the world and make new knowledge their own. That's part of what I mean when I say, "Let your kids use the stuff on their own!"
I bought six sets of Cuisenaire rods (with accompanying Miquon Math materials) because I found a special deal on the Internet a while back, and I thought our son would enjoy building with them and at the same time get an early opportunity to play with numbers in their pure, unlabeled form. Kids these days don't grow up helping their parents stack produce in the general store or whatever, so I figured this might be of help.
But of course, some months later, I can find almost none of these rods anywhere in the house. They must be SOMEWHERE - but you should either wait until your kids are a little older (our son is 2-1/2), or be more careful than I've been (watch that vacuum cleaner, especially). They can also be a choking hazard for some little ones.
Another math-type thing I like are the Measure-Up Cups sold by Discovery Toys. They're little plastic cups that go from one to ten (the numbers are on the sides). Number ten cup holds ten times the water or whatever that number one cup does, and so on. They also stack nicely to make a tower (and of course fit neatly inside each other), and each has an appropriate animal on the bottom (from mouse to elephant). Our son plays with them in the tub a lot. Now, whether he is learning any MATH from this, I don't know, but it keeps him soaking!
Elsa Haas
-----Original Message-----
From: RValvo7626@... [mailto:RValvo7626@...]
Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2001 11:58 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Digest Number 1677
In a message dated 12/9/01 4:52:29 AM Mountain Standard Time,
[email protected] writes:
them.
NICKI~
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Cuisenaire rods are small, six-sided rods. Actually, the smallest is a white cube - picture something a little smaller than a standard die. The next size up is a different color and is the size of two of those cubes. The next size up is still another color and is the size of three of the cubes. And so on, with the longest rod being the size of ten cubes. They don't have any numbers, dots or other markings on them. They're made of either plastic or painted wood (I find the wooden ones beautiful and made sure to get those, just out of aesthetics).
The idea is for kids to initially just play with them, gaining a feel for their different sizes. Later, there are things you can do with them that are more obviously numerical.
There's something called Miquon Math, which is a series of booklets covering the math typically taught up through (I think) grade six, but in which the kids use the rods to figure out the answers to the problems. I think that if you're going to do "school math", it makes sense for the kids to actually get their hands on something like this, rather than expecting them to just memorize a bunch of "number facts". The problems involve laying the rods out to cover a certain area, building little staircases, and so on. It can be like doing a puzzle.
John Holt is worth reading on the use of these rods, in How Children Fail. Among other things, he describes a mentally handicapped young man fearfully working with the rods and then suddenly, in the absence of pressure to perform, joyously discovering some basic math concept. I think he was using them in a demonstration class led by Caleb (?) Gattegno, who was involved in inventing the rods or developing the methods used.
I remember that one thing John said was that the kids in his own classes were not supposed to refer to the rods by number, but rather by color ("I need a green one here", for example), but that they always ended up breaking this "rule". The rule was supposed to free them to make their own discoveries without worrying about "numbers" as such, but of course any rule like this can end up seeming like the work of the Thought Police.
I think it was Alfie Kohn (maybe in Punished By Rewards) who described an experiment in which one group of kids was given the rods to play with however they wished. (One child might make believe the biggest rod was the daddy, another the mommy, another the family dog, while another child might pretend the rods were various makes of cars and trucks.) The kids in this group, when later given problems to solve using the rods, were much quicker at it than were kids who either had been given no opportunity to touch or use the rods in any way beforehand, or who had been given "instruction" in their various properties.
Or maybe it was John who described that study. I do remember that somewhere in John's writings, he says that teachers at some Montessori schools do not allow the children to use the Montessori materials (blocks, puzzles, rings on posts, cylinders, and so on) creatively - that if they do try to use them for fantasy play, the teacher takes them away, saying, "I see you're not ready to use this yet." (Presumably they are supposed to use only the DOLLS in the classroom to play "House", and so on.)
John said he thought these teachers didn't really understand that play is the way children explore the world and make new knowledge their own. That's part of what I mean when I say, "Let your kids use the stuff on their own!"
I bought six sets of Cuisenaire rods (with accompanying Miquon Math materials) because I found a special deal on the Internet a while back, and I thought our son would enjoy building with them and at the same time get an early opportunity to play with numbers in their pure, unlabeled form. Kids these days don't grow up helping their parents stack produce in the general store or whatever, so I figured this might be of help.
But of course, some months later, I can find almost none of these rods anywhere in the house. They must be SOMEWHERE - but you should either wait until your kids are a little older (our son is 2-1/2), or be more careful than I've been (watch that vacuum cleaner, especially). They can also be a choking hazard for some little ones.
Another math-type thing I like are the Measure-Up Cups sold by Discovery Toys. They're little plastic cups that go from one to ten (the numbers are on the sides). Number ten cup holds ten times the water or whatever that number one cup does, and so on. They also stack nicely to make a tower (and of course fit neatly inside each other), and each has an appropriate animal on the bottom (from mouse to elephant). Our son plays with them in the tub a lot. Now, whether he is learning any MATH from this, I don't know, but it keeps him soaking!
Elsa Haas
-----Original Message-----
From: RValvo7626@... [mailto:RValvo7626@...]
Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2001 11:58 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Digest Number 1677
In a message dated 12/9/01 4:52:29 AM Mountain Standard Time,
[email protected] writes:
> So I say, go ahead andCan you explain how these work? I haven't even seen them just heard of
> buy some stuff (I like Cuisenaire rods, too), but for goodness’ sake let
> your kids play with it ON THEIR OWN.
>
>
them.
NICKI~
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]