John & Melissa Morgan

We have been homeschooling for a year (officially but actually her whole life LOL). My Daughter is almost 8 and very bored. We have been doing workbooks and she reads A LOT but only likes Babysitter Club books mostly. She is an EXCELLENT reader.

So, she doesn't know many Geography, History, etc facts. How does she learn these if she has no interest? Or the multipication tables? Or everything else the state wants her tested on every year? She has NO interest in "school stuff" so I am coming here to ask what is unschooling exactly and how does it work?

I am so interested you cannot even imagine! I have 5 children...almost 8, almost 6 (Autism), 4, 3, 1. I just want to fit school in with life.

HELP!
Melissa
P.S. Specific things to do would be wonderful, I have NO imagination at all on what to do besides book work.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

groundhoggirl

OK. Well, first of all, and as a former high school geography teacher,
let me suggest to you that if she has no interest in geography and
history facts then why bother with it.? Now, I see in the rest of your
post that you mention THE STATE and testing. I'm not sure how to deal
with that. We live here in Texas where testing is not required. We are
very free here. The only thing I can think of is just tell your child
that THE STATE requires her to know certain things, etc. I would make
it very clear to her that it's not that important to you. You just want
her to learn what is interesting and important to her. But, because THE
STATE requires this, and this, and that, she must learn it otherwise she
will have to go back to school.

I have noticed that with many states you have to fall below the 40% mark
for several years in a row before the state will force you to put your
child in school. I would go the unschooling route for as long as you
can until perhaps the last year when you explain to her the consequences
and allow her to make her choice.

My boys are only 7 years old and we live in Texas where the
homeschooling laws are very lenient, so I can only tell you what I would
do. I really don't have any experience with your situation. What state
do you live in, by the way? And what are the specific requirements of
homeschoolers that the state dictates? Maybe someone else on this list
can help you further. I wish you luck.

Mimi


On Thursday, December 6, 2001, at 07:51 PM, John & Melissa Morgan wrote:

> We have been homeschooling for a year (officially but actually her
> whole life LOL). My Daughter is almost 8 and very bored. We have been
> doing workbooks and she reads A LOT but only likes Babysitter Club
> books mostly. She is an EXCELLENT reader.
>
> So, she doesn't know many Geography, History, etc facts. How does she
> learn these if she has no interest? Or the multipication tables? Or
> everything else the state wants her tested on every year? She has NO
> interest in "school stuff" so I am coming here to ask what is
> unschooling exactly and how does it work?
>
> I am so interested you cannot even imagine! I have 5 children...almost
> 8, almost 6 (Autism), 4, 3, 1. I just want to fit school in with life.
>
> HELP!
> Melissa
> P.S. Specific things to do would be wonderful, I have NO imagination at
> all on what to do besides book work.
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
> Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com
>
> To unsubscribe, set preferences, or read archives:
> http://www.egroups.com/group/Unschooling-dotcom
>
> Another great list sponsored by Home Education Magazine!
> http://www.home-ed-magazine.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

John & Melissa Morgan

We are in Maine.
Melissa
----- Original Message -----
From: groundhoggirl
To: [email protected]
Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2001 9:15 PM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] OK here is my question :0) How do they learn??


OK. Well, first of all, and as a former high school geography teacher,
let me suggest to you that if she has no interest in geography and
history facts then why bother with it.? Now, I see in the rest of your
post that you mention THE STATE and testing. I'm not sure how to deal
with that. We live here in Texas where testing is not required. We are
very free here. The only thing I can think of is just tell your child
that THE STATE requires her to know certain things, etc. I would make
it very clear to her that it's not that important to you. You just want
her to learn what is interesting and important to her. But, because THE
STATE requires this, and this, and that, she must learn it otherwise she
will have to go back to school.

I have noticed that with many states you have to fall below the 40% mark
for several years in a row before the state will force you to put your
child in school. I would go the unschooling route for as long as you
can until perhaps the last year when you explain to her the consequences
and allow her to make her choice.

My boys are only 7 years old and we live in Texas where the
homeschooling laws are very lenient, so I can only tell you what I would
do. I really don't have any experience with your situation. What state
do you live in, by the way? And what are the specific requirements of
homeschoolers that the state dictates? Maybe someone else on this list
can help you further. I wish you luck.

Mimi


On Thursday, December 6, 2001, at 07:51 PM, John & Melissa Morgan wrote:

> We have been homeschooling for a year (officially but actually her
> whole life LOL). My Daughter is almost 8 and very bored. We have been
> doing workbooks and she reads A LOT but only likes Babysitter Club
> books mostly. She is an EXCELLENT reader.
>
> So, she doesn't know many Geography, History, etc facts. How does she
> learn these if she has no interest? Or the multipication tables? Or
> everything else the state wants her tested on every year? She has NO
> interest in "school stuff" so I am coming here to ask what is
> unschooling exactly and how does it work?
>
> I am so interested you cannot even imagine! I have 5 children...almost
> 8, almost 6 (Autism), 4, 3, 1. I just want to fit school in with life.
>
> HELP!
> Melissa
> P.S. Specific things to do would be wonderful, I have NO imagination at
> all on what to do besides book work.
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
> Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com
>
> To unsubscribe, set preferences, or read archives:
> http://www.egroups.com/group/Unschooling-dotcom
>
> Another great list sponsored by Home Education Magazine!
> http://www.home-ed-magazine.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

groundhoggirl

Hi Melissa,

I looked at the site below and I see that your state is not a very good
one to unschool your children.

http://www.hslda.org/laws/analysis/ME.asp

I copied what they require as far as standardized tests are concerned.
Here it is:

Standardized Tests: Parents complying with the home school rules (under
option 1 above) have several options. An annual assessment must be filed
with the State Department of Education which must consist of one of the
following:

1. annual standardized test or,
2. a local test or,
3. review of progress by a Maine certified teacher or a local advisory
board selected by the superintendent or a home school support group that
includes a Maine certified teacher. Rules Sec. 3(J).

To be honest, I'm not sure if it is possible to unschool in a state like
Maine. They require annual testing. Can you find out how many years in
a row your child can fail the test before she's required to go back to
school? I think the longer a child has the opportunity to unschool, the
better. The older s/he is, the better s/he will be able to put up with
the bull the state requires without much harm to her psyche. That's my
personal opinion. I honestly don't know how else to advise you.

If you have not read John Holt's 'Learning All the Time", please do so.
It is an excellent introduction to unschooling. Alfie Kohn's "Punished
by Rewards" is also an excellent book.

Mimi

On Thursday, December 6, 2001, at 08:37 PM, John & Melissa Morgan wrote:

> We are in Maine.
> Melissa
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: groundhoggirl
> To: [email protected]
> Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2001 9:15 PM
> Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] OK here is my question :0) How do
> they learn??
>
>
> OK. Well, first of all, and as a former high school geography
> teacher,
> let me suggest to you that if she has no interest in geography and
> history facts then why bother with it.? Now, I see in the rest of your
> post that you mention THE STATE and testing. I'm not sure how to deal
> with that. We live here in Texas where testing is not required. We
> are
> very free here. The only thing I can think of is just tell your child
> that THE STATE requires her to know certain things, etc. I would make
> it very clear to her that it's not that important to you. You just
> want
> her to learn what is interesting and important to her. But, because
> THE
> STATE requires this, and this, and that, she must learn it otherwise
> she
> will have to go back to school.
>
> I have noticed that with many states you have to fall below the 40%
> mark
> for several years in a row before the state will force you to put your
> child in school. I would go the unschooling route for as long as you
> can until perhaps the last year when you explain to her the
> consequences
> and allow her to make her choice.
>
> My boys are only 7 years old and we live in Texas where the
> homeschooling laws are very lenient, so I can only tell you what I
> would
> do. I really don't have any experience with your situation. What
> state
> do you live in, by the way? And what are the specific requirements of
> homeschoolers that the state dictates? Maybe someone else on this
> list
> can help you further. I wish you luck.
>
> Mimi
>
>
> On Thursday, December 6, 2001, at 07:51 PM, John & Melissa Morgan
> wrote:
>
>> We have been homeschooling for a year (officially but actually her
>> whole life LOL). My Daughter is almost 8 and very bored. We have been
>> doing workbooks and she reads A LOT but only likes Babysitter Club
>> books mostly. She is an EXCELLENT reader.
>>
>> So, she doesn't know many Geography, History, etc facts. How does she
>> learn these if she has no interest? Or the multipication tables? Or
>> everything else the state wants her tested on every year? She has NO
>> interest in "school stuff" so I am coming here to ask what is
>> unschooling exactly and how does it work?
>>
>> I am so interested you cannot even imagine! I have 5 children...almost
>> 8, almost 6 (Autism), 4, 3, 1. I just want to fit school in with life.
>>
>> HELP!
>> Melissa
>> P.S. Specific things to do would be wonderful, I have NO imagination at
>> all on what to do besides book work.
>>
>>
>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>
>>
>>
>> Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
>> Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com
>>
>> To unsubscribe, set preferences, or read archives:
>> http://www.egroups.com/group/Unschooling-dotcom
>>
>> Another great list sponsored by Home Education Magazine!
>> http://www.home-ed-magazine.com
>>
>>
>>
>> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
>> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>>
>>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> ADVERTISEMENT
>
>
>
>
> Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
> Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com
>
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>
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>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 12/6/2001 9:50:05 PM Eastern Standard Time,
groundhoggirl@... writes:


> To be honest, I'm not sure if it is possible to unschool in a state like
> Maine. They require annual testing.

It is possible. . . there are many many people who do non-compliance. Not
many will talk about it, but it is certainly a feasible option. If a law such
ast his is totally unjust and goes against all you believe in, I believe the
only choice is non-compliance.

lovemary

When you judge someone you are not defining them, you are defining yourself.







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sarah Carothers

Hi Melissa,
I'm in NC but we also have a testing requirement. I the past when I worried that low test scores would *matter* (they don't here), I used practice books such as Scoring High or Gruber's (found at Borders or B&N). For about 3 weeks prior to the testing date, we'd review some of each chapter and when we'd come across something totally unfamiliar, I'd show her just enough to get by. For example, when they started asking multiplication questions, I explained that multiplication is just lots of addition. She caught on and it didn't become a problem for dd#1. DD#2, however, doesn't have an inkling about multiplication and when she gets to that section of the test, I tell her to do whatever she likes (*knowing* now that in NC, the test results do not matter).
Sometimes, the practice tests have sparked an interest in something I hadn't exposed them to before. Other times, it's just a necessary evil that I explained as a state-mandatory thing we had to do if we want to continue to homeschool.
Another thing about NC is that you don't have to order the grade-appropriate test. For instance, dd#2 who is 10 and would be considered a 5th grader in the system, takes the 2nd grade test. I'm at liberty to order the test I feel is appropriate for her ability. Maybe that's also the case in Maine.
Sarah



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

groundhoggirl

I'm all for non-compliance!!!!

Mimi


On Thursday, December 6, 2001, at 08:55 PM, lite2yu@... wrote:

> In a message dated 12/6/2001 9:50:05 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> groundhoggirl@... writes:
>
>
>> To be honest, I'm not sure if it is possible to unschool in a state
>> like
>> Maine. They require annual testing.
>
> It is possible. . . there are many many people who do non-compliance.
> Not
> many will talk about it, but it is certainly a feasible option. If a
> law such
> ast his is totally unjust and goes against all you believe in, I
> believe the
> only choice is non-compliance.
>
> lovemary
>
> When you judge someone you are not defining them, you are defining
> yourself.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
> Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com
>
> To unsubscribe, set preferences, or read archives:
> http://www.egroups.com/group/Unschooling-dotcom
>
> Another great list sponsored by Home Education Magazine!
> http://www.home-ed-magazine.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

Sarah Carothers

Curiosity got me and I checked that link you provided, Mimi. I think unschooling is do-able ... just read the rules carefully. This one is the toughest imo:
1.. assistance by a satisfactory support system (either a certified teacher, approved private school, approved home school that has operated for one year, or a local home school support group approved by the Commissioner) at least 4 times each year;
I'd join a local support group if it was me. The rest of the law, though, is very easy to do. We have to keep an attendance record in NC and it's such @@..... you just grab a day-planner, mark every single day as a learning day and jot down a summary of what you all did during the day. If you're ever called on it, you've got enough notes to translate it into educationeze and please those in govt. After awhile, you begin to think in those terms when you do something so that a simple trip to the park can be translated into: history (historical markers were in the park :-), geography, math, spelling..... you get the idea.... you can incorporate just about anything into an 'educational experience'.
Sarah



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Cindy

John & Melissa Morgan wrote:
>
> We are in Maine.
> Melissa
>

For dealing with the particulars of how to satisfy state requirements,
I'd recommend a list for Maine homeschoolers. I think NHEN still includes
email lists in their list of support groups. I think HEM has a list too.
NHEN : http://www.nhen.org HEM : http://www.home-ed-magazine.com
I thought the unschooling.com message boards had a state listing too
but I can't find it now!

Families are able to unschool in PA and NY - both states considered to
be the most difficult in the nation.

Good luck on your journey! I hope we can help here too.

--

Cindy Ferguson
crma@...

Karen Matlock

Well, I'd gotten antsy with ds (10 yr) doing nothing but Pokemon Gameboy and
Motocross Madness for the last 2-3 weeks. So the other day I asked him to
humor me and read something, anything, for 30 minutes. A little while later,
he calls to me from the other room: "Mom, what's S-E-M-E-N?" After I picked
myself up, I walked in and nonchalantly asked what he was reading. Any
guesses?

The Bible. Leviticus. Jewish cleanliness laws. So I told him what it was,
and he cheerfully went back to the computer.

Be careful what you wish for!



_________________________________________________________
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Get your free @... address at http://mail.yahoo.com

Diane

> 1. annual standardized test or,
> 2. a local test or,
> 3. review of progress by a Maine certified teacher or a local advisory
> board selected by the superintendent or a home school support group that
> includes a Maine certified teacher. Rules Sec. 3(J).
>
> To be honest, I'm not sure if it is possible to unschool in a state like
> Maine. They require annual testing.

They require EITHER testing OR portfolio review. Some unschoolers in Maine find
an unschooling friendly teacher and do portfolio review.

The unschooling.com discussion boards have a section for each state and you may
be able to find other unschoolers in your state and find out what they're doing
(legally). Is there a homeschool group in your area?

:-) Diane

Sarah Carothers

Karen,
LOL! Funny story <g>!
Sarah



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Diane

> We have been homeschooling for a year (officially but actually her whole life LOL). My Daughter is almost 8 and very bored. We have been doing workbooks and she reads A LOT but only likes Babysitter Club books mostly. She is an EXCELLENT reader.

Why is she bored? What would she like to be doing? We like to go to museums, caves, zoos, parks, etc. Does she like to do art? Crafts? Play board or strategy games? Lego-type stuff? Cook?

:-) Diane

John & Melissa Morgan

She would like to draw and read her Babysitter club books the rest of her life. Is there any benefit in those tenny bopper books for a 7 almost 8 year old? I mean she has become an excellent reader from them....but...

I don't know. I am having a hard time thinking out of the box of workbooks and public school stuff I guess.

We haven't done much in the way of "field trips" because I have a 1 yr old who cries all them time (something is wrong, we are working on figuring out what), limited budget and an Autistic Son who hates crowded places/people. How do I balance it all?

Somedays I feel VERY overwhelmed.

She is 8 in February and is reading very well, very Bible knowledgeable, good in Math, etc. But I always feel like the kids don't KNOW enough for their ages.

How do I get away from the workbook syndrome LOL and think out of the box so to speak???

Thank you! This is VERY informative and gives me MUCH hope!
Melissa
----- Original Message -----
From: Diane
To: [email protected]
Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2001 11:06 PM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] OK here is my question :0) How do they learn??


> We have been homeschooling for a year (officially but actually her whole life LOL). My Daughter is almost 8 and very bored. We have been doing workbooks and she reads A LOT but only likes Babysitter Club books mostly. She is an EXCELLENT reader.

Why is she bored? What would she like to be doing? We like to go to museums, caves, zoos, parks, etc. Does she like to do art? Crafts? Play board or strategy games? Lego-type stuff? Cook?

:-) Diane


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Diane

Yeah, I hear what you're saying. Does the 1 yr old like a sling? Stroller? Parks are free and not crowded. Sometimes the zoo isn't crowded and if you get a membership it's pretty cheap to go often.

Go over to unschooling.com's message boards and they'll help with that overwhelmed "stuck in the box" feeling.

Meanwhile, sometimes it helps to write down the "schooly" components of what they're already doing like "reading 1.5 hours" "math--fractions" (made cookies together), "art" (cut out the cookies), etc.

:-) Diane

P.S. Oh, I just read the subject line: They learn by doing and following their interests.

John & Melissa Morgan wrote:

> She would like to draw and read her Babysitter club books the rest of her life. Is there any benefit in those tenny bopper books for a 7 almost 8 year old? I mean she has become an excellent reader from them....but...
>
> I don't know. I am having a hard time thinking out of the box of workbooks and public school stuff I guess.
>
> We haven't done much in the way of "field trips" because I have a 1 yr old who cries all them time (something is wrong, we are working on figuring out what), limited budget and an Autistic Son who hates crowded places/people. How do I balance it all?
>
> Somedays I feel VERY overwhelmed.
>
> She is 8 in February and is reading very well, very Bible knowledgeable, good in Math, etc. But I always feel like the kids don't KNOW enough for their ages.
>
> How do I get away from the workbook syndrome LOL and think out of the box so to speak???
>
> Thank you! This is VERY informative and gives me MUCH hope!
> Melissa
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Diane
> To: [email protected]
> Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2001 11:06 PM
> Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] OK here is my question :0) How do they learn??
>
> > We have been homeschooling for a year (officially but actually her whole life LOL). My Daughter is almost 8 and very bored. We have been doing workbooks and she reads A LOT but only likes Babysitter Club books mostly. She is an EXCELLENT reader.
>
> Why is she bored? What would she like to be doing? We like to go to museums, caves, zoos, parks, etc. Does she like to do art? Crafts? Play board or strategy games? Lego-type stuff? Cook?
>
> :-) Diane

kayb85

Hi Melissa! I have 3 children. My oldest is an 8 year old daughter
and my two youngest are boys, ages 4 and 2. I have only recently
made the switch from extremely relaxed homeschooling to total
unschooling and I am absolutely loving it! I don't think that you
have to be very creative to unschool. You just go with the flow. I
can give you an idea of how my day went today. Maybe that would help
you a little bit. All of my children love to go to the library's
story hour program. We're blessed with a very friendly library who
was willing to change their idea of a preschool story hour into a
story hour for children of all ages because of all the homeschooled
kids who show up! My kids like to go places together as a family
rather than segregate into age groups, so the story hour situation is
perfect for us. Anyway, we slept in later than we should have so we
were rushing around frantically, dd rushing to get the pets cared for
this am and us barely grabbing a piece of toast before we went out
the door. My 8 and 2 year old went today. My 4 yo has always gone
with us but since his dad was home from work today, he wanted to stay
home with him. Since it is an unusually warm Dec. here in PA, they
went outside in the yard and played baseball and played on the
swingset! (phys ed) Dd had a pleasant surprise today because her 2
best friends showed up for story hour today. After reading 3
stories, the librarian handed out 3 Christmas coloring pictures.
(language arts and art) They colored their pictures and talked,
accompanied each other to the bathroom, and walked around the library
talking and giggling like girls like to do. Dd wanted to borrow
Magic School Bus videos, but since they can only be borrowed for 2
days I told her no because I wouldn't be going back into town in the
next two days. After the library, we went to the grocery store to
hand in coloring pictures. The last time we were there they handed
the kids coloring sheets and said that if they brought them back to
the store colored, they would get free iced tea. Well, they told us
that we can't hand them in until Saturday, when they are having
children's day--face painting, Santa, etc. Dd pointed out that if we
come back to the grocery store on Saturday we'll already be in town
and then we could return the Magic School Bus videos. So, we went
back to the library and picked up the videos. We got home, had a
quick lunch of leftover mashed potatoes, and then I got on the
computer to do some Christmas shopping while the kids watched their
magic school bus vids and played. (Science)When I was finished
shopping, I sat down with dd and read some Christmas books she had
picked out from the library. One of the stories was about two
children who had moved from Colorado with lots of snow to California
with no snow and they were afraid santa wouldn't be able to go there
because his sled needed snow. (Note: Geography!) Then the boys and
I made a batch of Christmas cookies together. We heated up leftovers
for supper. After supper, as I was straightening up the living room
and came across an I Spy book that ds had wanted to do with me. I
called him in and asked him if he would like to do it. He said yes
and we did it for awhile, until we came to a page with a big dominoes
set up where dominoes fall and knock a train down some track, which
knocks a ball off a shelf which falls on a clothespin which opens and
lets a piece of string out which knocks something else over...that
kind of thing. Ds was fascinated with it and we decided to try to
build something like that ourselves. Dd joined in and did her own
contraption while ds and I worked on one. (science--physics) Pretty
soon, ds was working pretty much independently and I was just sitting
there keeping him company. The 2 year old wanted in on the action,
though and kept messing up his brother's work so I took the two year
old in the other room and played with the duplos with him. Well,
before long the 4 year old made his way in with us and started
building duplos with us. (math) The 4 yo took over the building I had
started so I sat there sorting the legos from the duplos and putting
some cheap imitation legos that no one plays with in a seperate bag
to sell at a yard sale. At 8:00, dh and I watched survivor in one
room while the kids watched the Charlie Brown Christmas special in
another. After survivor, the boys and I played with the playmobil
nativity set for awhile and then the 4 year old and I read 10
terrible dinosaurs (math) and a magic school bus book (science). The
2 year old listened in here and there but doesn't sit very long for
stories yet. Then I sent everyone up to brush teeth and get ready
for bed, but dd thought she saw a snake under her radiator. I
cleared everything off the radiator cover (hair stuff and jewelry),
pulled it out, and got the "snake" (a pony tail holder that had
fallen underneath the radiator). She ended up staying up late
because as long as it was pulled cleared off, I dusted it off and had
her organize all her stuff which had gotten extremely messy.

Well, I hope my sample day was a help to you and that I didn't bore
you with all that!

Some stuff my dd likes that maybe yours would too:
Has your eight year old ever read the American Girl stuff? They're
great and if she really gets into it, there's a neat board game that
she might like. Dear America books are great too, although they tend
to throw in a few mature themes into them so I always make sure I
read them with dd the first time through. We got a kit through
scholastic that has a craft with supplies that you make after you
read the book. Dd loves that. She also likes the Pony Pals and
Boxcare children. We got a Little Women audio tape from the library
which dd absolutely loves. We listen to it in the car. We're
Christians, so some of the books we like to read are Christian too.
Dd likes the Ruby Slippers School series, the Mandie series, and we
recently bought an Elsie Dinsmore book that looks interesting. Does
she like to play board games? Dd loves yatzee, name that country,
sorry, Guess who, checkers, and Monopoly. Does she play with
computer software? Dd's favorites are the Cluefinders 3rd and 4th
grade adventures and the Music Doodle Pad. She really wants Carmen
Sandiego for Christmas (which she's getting) Ds likes Ready for Math
and Ready to Read with Winnie the Pooh. She is also excited about
sewing some bedding for her doll bunk beds that her dad made for her
and she also wants me to help her sew doll clothes for her American
girl dolls this winter. That is going to be interesting since I'm
not much of a seamstress, but I'll force myself to stay calm for her
sake! She also loves her pets--a rabbit, cat, and a fish tank which
is filled with some things she's caught in streams and ponds herself--
minnows, newts, snails as well as a frog and a fish we bought at a
pet store. She wants me to look into breeding bunnies for sale to
medical facilities, which would make for a real interesting house!
(Is saying that going to get me into trouble on this list? lol) She
also likes the Top Secret Adventures kit by Highlights, which covers
world geography. (Disclaimer: I don't encourage her to do it so
that she learns geography. It is entirely her idea.) She also enjoys
cooking and baking and often chooses her own recipe, goes with me to
the store to get ingredients, and cooks/bakes entirely on her own
(with me close by to help if I'm needed).

Of course, maybe your daughter's interests will be completely
different than my daughter's! Don't just do something with her
because you feel she *should* be interested in it. Just watch her
and see what she likes to do. It might take awhile before you see
something creative emerging, but sooner or later, she'll ask you to
play a game with her, or take her somewhere, even do her hair fancy.
Whatever it is, do it with her, even if it doesn't "seem"
educational. It might lead to something "educational" but even if it
doesn't, you had a fun time doing something together as mother and
daughter!

Sheila, who had better quit before this email becomes a book!

--- In Unschooling-dotcom@y..., "John & Melissa Morgan"
<ourfivepack@h...> wrote:
> We have been homeschooling for a year (officially but actually her
whole life LOL). My Daughter is almost 8 and very bored. We have
been doing workbooks and she reads A LOT but only likes Babysitter
Club books mostly. She is an EXCELLENT reader.
>
> So, she doesn't know many Geography, History, etc facts. How does
she learn these if she has no interest? Or the multipication tables?
Or everything else the state wants her tested on every year? She has
NO interest in "school stuff" so I am coming here to ask what is
unschooling exactly and how does it work?
>
> I am so interested you cannot even imagine! I have 5
children...almost 8, almost 6 (Autism), 4, 3, 1. I just want to fit
school in with life.
>
> HELP!
> Melissa
> P.S. Specific things to do would be wonderful, I have NO
imagination at all on what to do besides book work.
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

kayb85

I'll share a few thoughts on meeting state homeschool requirements.
I haven't read Maine's laws except for reading a quick summary on
HSLDA, so I'm not sure how much of this applies to you. Take what is
helpful from this and disregard the rest. I'm from PA. We have to
take standardized tests in grades 3, 5, and 8 AND be evaluated by
a "qualified" evaluator yearly AND hand in samples of students' work
to the school district yearly. (Be glad you don't live here!)
However, I've learned a few things from some homeschoolers who have
been complying longer than I have. First, we have to take
standardized tests in math and reading only and the school district
can't legally hold our scores against us. Perhaps that's the case in
your state? Does it matter how well they score? If the requirement
is just that you take the test and not that you score a certain way,
then don't worry about it. It seems your law offers the option of
having a certified teacher evaluate you. I would probably choose
that option if I were you. Start hunting down an unschooling
friendly evaluator. I would see if there's a statewide homeschool
email list in your state and start asking if any evaluators are
unschooling friendly. There are a few in PA who do distance
evaluations for homeschoolers in other parts of PA. We mail her
samples of the work and then she does the interview (very friendly
and informal) with the child over the phone. So consider that as an
option. Depending on the specifics of your law, even if you can only
find an unschooling friendly evaluator in another part of the state,
a distance evaluation might work for you.

Sheila


--- In Unschooling-dotcom@y..., "John & Melissa Morgan"
<ourfivepack@h...> wrote:
> We are in Maine.
> Melissa
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: groundhoggirl
> To: Unschooling-dotcom@y...
> Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2001 9:15 PM
> Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] OK here is my question :0) How
do they learn??
>
>
> OK. Well, first of all, and as a former high school geography
teacher,
> let me suggest to you that if she has no interest in geography
and
> history facts then why bother with it.? Now, I see in the rest of
your
> post that you mention THE STATE and testing. I'm not sure how to
deal
> with that. We live here in Texas where testing is not required.
We are
> very free here. The only thing I can think of is just tell your
child
> that THE STATE requires her to know certain things, etc. I would
make
> it very clear to her that it's not that important to you. You
just want
> her to learn what is interesting and important to her. But,
because THE
> STATE requires this, and this, and that, she must learn it
otherwise she
> will have to go back to school.
>
> I have noticed that with many states you have to fall below the
40% mark
> for several years in a row before the state will force you to put
your
> child in school. I would go the unschooling route for as long as
you
> can until perhaps the last year when you explain to her the
consequences
> and allow her to make her choice.
>
> My boys are only 7 years old and we live in Texas where the
> homeschooling laws are very lenient, so I can only tell you what
I would
> do. I really don't have any experience with your situation.
What state
> do you live in, by the way? And what are the specific
requirements of
> homeschoolers that the state dictates? Maybe someone else on
this list
> can help you further. I wish you luck.
>
> Mimi
>
>
> On Thursday, December 6, 2001, at 07:51 PM, John & Melissa Morgan
wrote:
>
> > We have been homeschooling for a year (officially but actually
her
> > whole life LOL). My Daughter is almost 8 and very bored. We
have been
> > doing workbooks and she reads A LOT but only likes Babysitter
Club
> > books mostly. She is an EXCELLENT reader.
> >
> > So, she doesn't know many Geography, History, etc facts. How
does she
> > learn these if she has no interest? Or the multipication
tables? Or
> > everything else the state wants her tested on every year? She
has NO
> > interest in "school stuff" so I am coming here to ask what is
> > unschooling exactly and how does it work?
> >
> > I am so interested you cannot even imagine! I have 5
children...almost
> > 8, almost 6 (Autism), 4, 3, 1. I just want to fit school in
with life.
> >
> > HELP!
> > Melissa
> > P.S. Specific things to do would be wonderful, I have NO
imagination at
> > all on what to do besides book work.
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
> > Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
> > Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com
> >
> > To unsubscribe, set preferences, or read archives:
> > http://www.egroups.com/group/Unschooling-dotcom
> >
> > Another great list sponsored by Home Education Magazine!
> > http://www.home-ed-magazine.com
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> ADVERTISEMENT
>
>
>
>
> Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
> Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com
>
> To unsubscribe, set preferences, or read archives:
> http://www.egroups.com/group/Unschooling-dotcom
>
> Another great list sponsored by Home Education Magazine!
> http://www.home-ed-magazine.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service.
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

kayb85

Now wait a minute. I wouldn't assume that she is going to fail those
tests.
Sheila

> To be honest, I'm not sure if it is possible to unschool in a state
like
> Maine. They require annual testing. Can you find out how many
years in
> a row your child can fail the test before she's required to go back
to
> school? I think the longer a child has the opportunity to
unschool, the
> better. The older s/he is, the better s/he will be able to put up
with
> the bull the state requires without much harm to her psyche.
That's my
> personal opinion. I honestly don't know how else to advise you.

kayb85

If you can unschool in PA, you can unschool anywhere! We have to
come up with samples of students' work to hand in to the school! How
many worksheets do unschoolers do in a year!!! So we photocopy
letters before they send them to their grandparents and save
brochures from educational places we visit and save tally sheets from
uno games.

Imo, you really have to be sure that you are so strongly
philisophically opposed to complying that you're willing to risk an
awful lot to noncomply. I have a friend who didn't comply for years
and got away with it but when she got caught--a nosy neighbor
reported her because her kids weren't in school--her nightmare
began. Fines, social worker visits, court cases, even a night in
jail for her dh. It wasn't pretty.

Sheila

> > To be honest, I'm not sure if it is possible to unschool in a
state like
> > Maine. They require annual testing.
>
> It is possible. . . there are many many people who do non-
compliance. Not
> many will talk about it, but it is certainly a feasible option. If
a law such
> ast his is totally unjust and goes against all you believe in, I
believe the
> only choice is non-compliance.
>
> lovemary
>
> When you judge someone you are not defining them, you are defining
yourself.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

kayb85

>
> How do I get away from the workbook syndrome LOL and think out of
the box so to speak???

You sit down and you figure out what you feel is important. Once you
figure out what you believe, stick to it and don't worry about what
others think. As a Christian, one of the reasons I was led to
unschooling is because I realized that I was worrying so much about
academic stuff that the real important things were suffering. I
wasn't taking proper care of the house which made life stressful for
dh. I wasn't spending enough time studying the Bible on my own. I
wasn't spending enough time in prayer. I stopped and asked myself
why I had time to do math workbooks but not sit down and read my
Bible for 15 minutes! And, how did I expect my children to ever
develop a close relationship with the Lord if I never set the
example? Which was more important--mastering math facts at 8 years
old or developing a relationship with the Lord? Learning the grammar
rules or having a relatively stress free family life? I also had the
humbling realization that I can't possibly know what the Lord has in
store for her life, so I would be much wiser to just led the Holy
Spirit lead her and be there to train her as He leads her.

Your reasons might not be my reasons. You have to decide for
yourself what you feel is important in your life and in your
children's lives and then go do it.

Sheila

Helen Hegener

At 7:38 PM -0800 12/6/01, Cindy wrote:
>I thought the unschooling.com message boards had a state listing too
>but I can't find it now!

It's at this URL:
http://www.unschooling.com/networking/groups/index.shtml

But I don't know how current that list is. I'd advise using the one
at HEM's site until we can get the unschooling listings updated:
http://www.home-ed-magazine.com/wlcm_groups.html

We have a wonderful support group liaison who works hard to keep that
entire part of our website updated and current. There are some groups
listed which are not unschooling-specific, but I think it's pretty
easy to find what you're looking for. And there are all kinds of
support group related links on that page.

Helen

kayb85

> Sheila, are you familiar with Teri Brown's great book, Christian
Unschooling?

Actually, my mil gave me money to buy myself some Christmas presents
and that's one of the things I bought. :) I am half way through it
already. ;) I am enjoying some of it but I was also disappointed in
some of it. Some of the recommendations seem more like relaxed
schooling rather than total unschooling to me. Some of the essays of
a typical day that people submitted don't seem like unschooling to
me. There are people who use math curriculums, do unit studies,
etc., and it's all presented as unschooling.

Sheila

Helen Hegener

At 5:31 AM +0000 12/7/01, kayb85 wrote:
> As a Christian, one of the reasons I was led to
>unschooling is because I realized that I was worrying so much about
>academic stuff that the real important things were suffering.

Sheila, are you familiar with Teri Brown's great book, Christian Unschooling?

Here's Teri's wonderfully supportive website:

http://www.inspirit.com.au/unschooling/default.htm

Teri has the first chapter of her book, "What Is Unschooling?" online:
http://www.championpress.com/unschoolingmain.html

She offers information about her book and many others, a free monthly
newsletter (actually an e-zine), links to *tons* of categorized
resources - and she lists our Unschooling.com site right at the top
of her unschooling recommendations. <g>

Helen

Helen Hegener

At 6:04 AM +0000 12/7/01, kayb85 wrote:
> Some of the recommendations seem more like relaxed
>schooling rather than total unschooling to me.

Ah, good. Glad you saw that, as it was my take on the book, but I
also appreciate what Teri's trying to do, which is meet people where
they're at. That seems important, especially when trying to reach
people who've only been exposed to certain ways of teaching and
learning.

So have you tried Mary Griffith's "The Unschooler's Handbook?"
http://www.primapublishing.com/books/book/901/

Helen, blithely undaunted <g>

[email protected]

**She would like to draw and read her Babysitter club books the rest of her
life.**

Nah. :) She won't do that any longer than she really needs to.

Series books build fluency. That's reason enough for them.

To anyone worrying over what their kids are reading, I highly recommend Mary
Leonhardt's "Parents Who Love Reading, Kids Who Don't". It describes how
schools turn kids into non readers and how you can avoid doing it yourself.
The first step is to support reading, however it presents itself.

Deborah in IL

Tia Leschke

>
>
>Standardized Tests: Parents complying with the home school rules (under
>option 1 above) have several options. An annual assessment must be filed
>with the State Department of Education which must consist of one of the
>following:
>
>1. annual standardized test or,
>2. a local test or,
>3. review of progress by a Maine certified teacher or a local advisory
>board selected by the superintendent or a home school support group that
>includes a Maine certified teacher. Rules Sec. 3(J).

So testing is *not* required. If I were there, I would find an
unschooling-friendly certified teacher and go the review of progress route.
Tia

Tia Leschke leschke@...
On Vancouver Island
********************************************************************************************
It is the answers which separate us, the questions which unite us. - Janice
Levy





----------


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

kayb85

> So have you tried Mary Griffith's "The Unschooler's Handbook?"
> http://www.primapublishing.com/books/book/901/
>
> Helen, blithely undaunted <g>

Lol! I did have that book once upon a time but I lent it out about a
year ago and never got it back. I read it back in the days when I
described myself as "almost an unschooler" so I'm not sure if my take
on it would be the same now as it was then. Back then I would have
described it as "ok for someone who needs to get over being a school-
at-homer". I would like to re-read it. I'll have to give the
person to whom I lent the book a call and see if she still knows
where it is.

I'm 3/4 of the way through How Children Learn by John Holt. I also
got The Continuum concept but my daughter is giving me that for
Christmas and she has it pretty well wrapped. I'll have to wait
until after Christmas to read that one. Any other recommendations?
I'm looking for something that will encourage me to continue to be a
totally radical unschooler.

Lynda

Please check NHEN's list of what the laws are. H$LDA's list is what their
*opinion* of what the laws are. I know the last time I looked, several of
the states were not accurate.

Lynda
----- Original Message -----
From: groundhoggirl <groundhoggirl@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2001 6:52 PM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] OK here is my question :0) How do they
learn??


> Hi Melissa,
>
> I looked at the site below and I see that your state is not a very good
> one to unschool your children.
>
> http://www.hslda.org/laws/analysis/ME.asp
>
> I copied what they require as far as standardized tests are concerned.
> Here it is:
>
> Standardized Tests: Parents complying with the home school rules (under
> option 1 above) have several options. An annual assessment must be filed
> with the State Department of Education which must consist of one of the
> following:
>
> 1. annual standardized test or,
> 2. a local test or,
> 3. review of progress by a Maine certified teacher or a local advisory
> board selected by the superintendent or a home school support group that
> includes a Maine certified teacher. Rules Sec. 3(J).
>
> To be honest, I'm not sure if it is possible to unschool in a state like
> Maine. They require annual testing. Can you find out how many years in
> a row your child can fail the test before she's required to go back to
> school? I think the longer a child has the opportunity to unschool, the
> better. The older s/he is, the better s/he will be able to put up with
> the bull the state requires without much harm to her psyche. That's my
> personal opinion. I honestly don't know how else to advise you.
>
> If you have not read John Holt's 'Learning All the Time", please do so.
> It is an excellent introduction to unschooling. Alfie Kohn's "Punished
> by Rewards" is also an excellent book.
>
> Mimi
>
> On Thursday, December 6, 2001, at 08:37 PM, John & Melissa Morgan wrote:
>
> > We are in Maine.
> > Melissa
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: groundhoggirl
> > To: [email protected]
> > Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2001 9:15 PM
> > Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] OK here is my question :0) How do
> > they learn??
> >
> >
> > OK. Well, first of all, and as a former high school geography
> > teacher,
> > let me suggest to you that if she has no interest in geography and
> > history facts then why bother with it.? Now, I see in the rest of your
> > post that you mention THE STATE and testing. I'm not sure how to deal
> > with that. We live here in Texas where testing is not required. We
> > are
> > very free here. The only thing I can think of is just tell your child
> > that THE STATE requires her to know certain things, etc. I would make
> > it very clear to her that it's not that important to you. You just
> > want
> > her to learn what is interesting and important to her. But, because
> > THE
> > STATE requires this, and this, and that, she must learn it otherwise
> > she
> > will have to go back to school.
> >
> > I have noticed that with many states you have to fall below the 40%
> > mark
> > for several years in a row before the state will force you to put your
> > child in school. I would go the unschooling route for as long as you
> > can until perhaps the last year when you explain to her the
> > consequences
> > and allow her to make her choice.
> >
> > My boys are only 7 years old and we live in Texas where the
> > homeschooling laws are very lenient, so I can only tell you what I
> > would
> > do. I really don't have any experience with your situation. What
> > state
> > do you live in, by the way? And what are the specific requirements of
> > homeschoolers that the state dictates? Maybe someone else on this
> > list
> > can help you further. I wish you luck.
> >
> > Mimi
> >
> >
> > On Thursday, December 6, 2001, at 07:51 PM, John & Melissa Morgan
> > wrote:
> >
> >> We have been homeschooling for a year (officially but actually her
> >> whole life LOL). My Daughter is almost 8 and very bored. We have been
> >> doing workbooks and she reads A LOT but only likes Babysitter Club
> >> books mostly. She is an EXCELLENT reader.
> >>
> >> So, she doesn't know many Geography, History, etc facts. How does she
> >> learn these if she has no interest? Or the multipication tables? Or
> >> everything else the state wants her tested on every year? She has NO
> >> interest in "school stuff" so I am coming here to ask what is
> >> unschooling exactly and how does it work?
> >>
> >> I am so interested you cannot even imagine! I have 5 children...almost
> >> 8, almost 6 (Autism), 4, 3, 1. I just want to fit school in with life.
> >>
> >> HELP!
> >> Melissa
> >> P.S. Specific things to do would be wonderful, I have NO imagination at
> >> all on what to do besides book work.
> >>
> >>
> >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
> >> Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com
> >>
> >> To unsubscribe, set preferences, or read archives:
> >> http://www.egroups.com/group/Unschooling-dotcom
> >>
> >> Another great list sponsored by Home Education Magazine!
> >> http://www.home-ed-magazine.com
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> >> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> > ADVERTISEMENT
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
> > Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com
> >
> > To unsubscribe, set preferences, or read archives:
> > http://www.egroups.com/group/Unschooling-dotcom
> >
> > Another great list sponsored by Home Education Magazine!
> > http://www.home-ed-magazine.com
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
> > Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
> > Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com
> >
> > To unsubscribe, set preferences, or read archives:
> > http://www.egroups.com/group/Unschooling-dotcom
> >
> > Another great list sponsored by Home Education Magazine!
> > http://www.home-ed-magazine.com
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
> Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com
>
> To unsubscribe, set preferences, or read archives:
> http://www.egroups.com/group/Unschooling-dotcom
>
> Another great list sponsored by Home Education Magazine!
> http://www.home-ed-magazine.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

Helen Hegener

At 6:31 AM +0000 12/7/01, kayb85 wrote:
> Any other recommendations?
>I'm looking for something that will encourage me to continue to be a
>totally radical unschooler.

Well... at the risk of tooting our own horn overmuch tonight, all my
favorites are listed in our online book catalog:
http://www.home-ed-magazine.com/catalog/index.html

I think the last one, Linda Dobson's "The Art of Education," is
probably the one I turn to most when I need reminding why we do this.
Of course, I edited that book... <g>

And while I'm at this unseemly horn-tootling, <g> there are plenty of
terrific articles and columns online at our HEM and Unschooling
websites.

Helen

Helen Hegener

At 10:35 PM -0800 12/6/01, Lynda wrote:
>Please check NHEN's list of what the laws are. H$LDA's list is what their
>*opinion* of what the laws are. I know the last time I looked, several of
>the states were not accurate.

Good advice.

Helen