[email protected]

On Tue, 04 Dec 2001 22:58:14 -0000 "Bridget" <rumpleteasermom@...>
writes:
> So you think it is good to protect your child from all that could
> hurt her feelings, not ever let her learn how to cope with hardship
> and unfairness and rudeness and hurtful people - - then suddenly when
> she is old enough to leave home she will have the skills she needs
> to function in the world?

That's not what she said at all, and you know it. Her kids are out in the
world already, like all of our kids, and they seem to manage the hard
knocks that the Real World throws at them. IMO, having a safe home where
you won't be insulted helps you handle these things when they do happen.

OTOH, your philosophy on this sounds like the "toughen 'em up" school of
thought, where a parent hurts their own child (emotionally or
physically) as sort of a presumptive strike, so that when someone else
does it they'll be used to it, and then they can act "tough". I just
don't think that works.

It's interesting how you see intentionally using words with postive
connotation as "sugar coating", but you don't see intentionally using
words with negative connotations as the opposite.

Dar
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Bridget

--- In Unschooling-dotcom@y..., freeform@j... wrote:


>
> OTOH, your philosophy on this sounds like the "toughen 'em up"
school of
> thought, where a parent hurts their own child (emotionally or
> physically) as sort of a presumptive strike, so that when someone
else
> does it they'll be used to it, and then they can act "tough". I
just
> don't think that works.
>

No and for someone who claims I am misstating what another is saying,
you sure have done a number on me. I never said I intentionally hurt
my kids to toughen them up. Rather what I said was that I have
taught them that words are words and to look at the true meaning of
them. Whether you call it stubborn or persisten, it is still the
same thing. We believe that even good people have faults and the
only people who can't improve themselves are those who don't believe
that.
And it is not a matter of acting "tough", it is a matter of being
secure enough in your own self-worth that another person's criticism
of you cannot harm you, it can only allow you to freely examine both
yourself and the critisism for flaws.

Bridget

groundhoggirl

Hi Bridget,

I would like to add that I don't think that calling a CHILD "lazy", etc.
will build self-worth. I believe it will have the opposite effect. It
is the knowledge the child has that his parents accept him for just what
he is and what he does. It is total acceptance and unconditional love
from the parent that will build a sense of security and self-worth - not
criticism.

Mimi


On Tuesday, December 4, 2001, at 05:40 PM, Bridget wrote:

> --- In Unschooling-dotcom@y..., freeform@j... wrote:
>
>
>>
>> OTOH, your philosophy on this sounds like the "toughen 'em up"
> school of
>> thought, where a parent hurts their own child (emotionally or
>> physically) as sort of a presumptive strike, so that when someone
> else
>> does it they'll be used to it, and then they can act "tough". I
> just
>> don't think that works.
>>
>
> No and for someone who claims I am misstating what another is saying,
> you sure have done a number on me. I never said I intentionally hurt
> my kids to toughen them up. Rather what I said was that I have
> taught them that words are words and to look at the true meaning of
> them. Whether you call it stubborn or persisten, it is still the
> same thing. We believe that even good people have faults and the
> only people who can't improve themselves are those who don't believe
> that.
> And it is not a matter of acting "tough", it is a matter of being
> secure enough in your own self-worth that another person's criticism
> of you cannot harm you, it can only allow you to freely examine both
> yourself and the critisism for flaws.
>
> Bridget
>
>
>
>
>
>
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Tia Leschke

> Whether you call it stubborn or persisten, it is still the
>same thing.

Not really. Persistence is perceived in our society as a
virtue. Stubbornness is not. I certainly found my son to be a lot easier
to understand and get along with when I changed *my* perception of his
toddler behavior from stubborn to persistent. And I began to see that he
wasn't really being stubborn, in the sense of unreasonable. He had
perfectly good (to himself anyway) reasons for acting the way he did in
order to get *his* needs met. Once I saw that, it was much easier to find
ways to help him meet his needs than when I just thought he was being
stubborn. And I'm sure he appreciated it.

Yes, the two are a bit different. I'd say that persistence is my older
son, who really wanted a particular job. He went down there every week for
months, until the boss finally told him not to bother, that he would be the
next person hired when they needed someone. (And he was) Stubborn is my
grandfather, who was selling life insurance in a logging camp. Eating
breakfast in the mess hall, he reached for a pitcher of what he thought was
syrup. He ignored the grins and snickers from the loggers and poured it
all over his pancakes, ate the pancakes, asked for seconds, and poured the
*olive oil* all over his second batch of pancakes and ate them, rather than
admitting he had goofed.

>We believe that even good people have faults and the
>only people who can't improve themselves are those who don't believe
>that.

I find that most people are *less* likely to change when their faults are
pointed out. Try bugging a loved one to quit smoking and see how much good
it does.
Tia

Tia Leschke leschke@...
On Vancouver Island
********************************************************************************************
It is the answers which separate us, the questions which unite us. - Janice
Levy

Corina Crane

I've been away for a few days, but just caught this
thread.

I'm SO glad to be on a list that allows this
conversation. Would you believe, on another list I
WAS on, I got kicked off for suggesting that a parent
shouldn't label their kids as lazy as that's what
they'll become. (This particular poster had a habit
of listing ALL the labels her kids had at the end of
their names for instance: Tom ADHD, DIS, glasses,
lazy, etc!)

And my post wasn't rude or derogratory. Just stated
what I believed to be my opinion.

Thank goodness for a list that allows us to be human!

Corina

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rumpleteasermom

--- In Unschooling-dotcom@y..., Corina Crane <corina_crane@y...>
wrote:
> I got kicked off for suggesting that a parent
> shouldn't label their kids as lazy as that's what
> they'll become. (This particular poster had a habit
> of listing ALL the labels her kids had at the end of
> their names for instance: Tom ADHD, DIS, glasses,
> lazy, etc!)
>

Well, I don't think you should LABEL your kids anything and making
their medical conditions a part of their names is just strange
(IMHO). But I see a difference between saying, "Me son becomes lazy
and willful in these circumstances." And saying, "My son IS lazy and
willful." Somewhat similar to my belief that we should say, "My
daughter HAS ADHD." and definetly NOT, "My daughter is ADHD."

Bridget

Tia Leschke

> (This particular poster had a habit
>of listing ALL the labels her kids had at the end of
>their names for instance: Tom ADHD, DIS, glasses,
>lazy, etc!)

Oh puke! Anybody ever hear of a self-fulfilling prophecy?

Outside the homeschooling world (mainly) I get so tired of hearing people
referring to their children as brats or monsters. My daughter has a
neighbour with a baby about the same age as my grandson (just over one) who
has been calling her baby a brat and a bad girl ever since she started to
crawl and explore. She'll know she's a brat and a bad girl even before she
knows how to talk. Sad.
Tia

Tia Leschke leschke@...
On Vancouver Island
********************************************************************************************
It is the answers which separate us, the questions which unite us. - Janice
Levy