Re:reading late
Joseph Fuerst
I like these ideas, Tia.....think I'll ask my almost 10 y.o. about them for
her.
One thing that seems to frustrate dd the most is the time it takes to read
and figure out the words....by then, it's difficult to put the sentence
together to mean something....and the storyline is really easy to lose. And
she doesn't like simple stories anymore.
Hmmm....just had an idea.......maybe we need to find some fun poems, where
the length is not intimidating and the flow of the language is usually
*fun*.
Susan
There were some looooooong pauses
reading is that we didn't figure out a signal that he could use to let me
know that he wanted help. You might want to talk with your daughter about
how she wants you to handle those spaces. Just wait? Wait till she asks
for help? She gives you a signal that says she wants help?
pointing to or spelling out words she wants help with. Then you could be
doing something else (that you don't mind interruptions with) and just tell
her the words. This way, you wouldn't even know that she was struggling
until she asked you a word, and your impatience wouldn't come into it.
Tia
Tia Leschke leschke@...
On Vancouver Island
****************************************************************************
****************
It is the answers which separate us, the questions which unite us. - Janice
Levy
her.
One thing that seems to frustrate dd the most is the time it takes to read
and figure out the words....by then, it's difficult to put the sentence
together to mean something....and the storyline is really easy to lose. And
she doesn't like simple stories anymore.
Hmmm....just had an idea.......maybe we need to find some fun poems, where
the length is not intimidating and the flow of the language is usually
*fun*.
Susan
There were some looooooong pauses
>but she would eventually figure out the word (sounding out phoneticly).This is something that Lars hates. One of the problems we had working with
>These pauses were unbelievably long and made me uncomfortable. I realized
>that *part* of our problem is I'm impatient. I see her struggling so I jump
>in and tell her the word. She doesn't like this *at all*.
reading is that we didn't figure out a signal that he could use to let me
know that he wanted help. You might want to talk with your daughter about
how she wants you to handle those spaces. Just wait? Wait till she asks
for help? She gives you a signal that says she wants help?
>More than that, though, I think *I* could be her biggest obstacle becauseof
>my rush-rush personality which doesn't allow her the time she needs toThis is one reason I suggested that you try having her read silently, just
>figure things out.
pointing to or spelling out words she wants help with. Then you could be
doing something else (that you don't mind interruptions with) and just tell
her the words. This way, you wouldn't even know that she was struggling
until she asked you a word, and your impatience wouldn't come into it.
Tia
Tia Leschke leschke@...
On Vancouver Island
****************************************************************************
****************
It is the answers which separate us, the questions which unite us. - Janice
Levy
Tia Leschke
At 08:18 AM 03/12/01 -0500, you wrote:
old for the easy books when he started learning.
tried it when I was doing my non-unschooling insistence on reading
practise. Also, he never did get rhymes. He may have the idea now, but
even a couple of years ago he couldn't rhyme to save his life. It didn't
matter how many times or ways I explained it, the concept just wasn't grasped.
It's been months now since I mentioned the word reading to him, and I
noticed last night that he was reading a rather complicated-looking manual
that came with his bike shocks. I do see him reading more, though I have
no idea how much of it he's comprehending. (And I'm not going to try to
find out!) He still won't tackle fiction, though sometimes he'll read
ahead a few pages if I've stopped at an exciting part. (Maybe I need to
get better at stopping at the exciting parts. <g> I have trouble doing
that in my own reading.)
Tia
Tia Leschke leschke@...
On Vancouver Island
********************************************************************************************
It is the answers which separate us, the questions which unite us. - Janice
Levy
>I like these ideas, Tia.....think I'll ask my almost 10 y.o. about them forThis is also what frustrated Lars so much. And he was definitely way to
>her.
>One thing that seems to frustrate dd the most is the time it takes to read
>and figure out the words....by then, it's difficult to put the sentence
>together to mean something....and the storyline is really easy to lose. And
>she doesn't like simple stories anymore.
old for the easy books when he started learning.
>Hmmm....just had an idea.......maybe we need to find some fun poems, whereMight work for her. It didn't work with Lars, but that's partly because we
>the length is not intimidating and the flow of the language is usually
>*fun*.
tried it when I was doing my non-unschooling insistence on reading
practise. Also, he never did get rhymes. He may have the idea now, but
even a couple of years ago he couldn't rhyme to save his life. It didn't
matter how many times or ways I explained it, the concept just wasn't grasped.
It's been months now since I mentioned the word reading to him, and I
noticed last night that he was reading a rather complicated-looking manual
that came with his bike shocks. I do see him reading more, though I have
no idea how much of it he's comprehending. (And I'm not going to try to
find out!) He still won't tackle fiction, though sometimes he'll read
ahead a few pages if I've stopped at an exciting part. (Maybe I need to
get better at stopping at the exciting parts. <g> I have trouble doing
that in my own reading.)
Tia
Tia Leschke leschke@...
On Vancouver Island
********************************************************************************************
It is the answers which separate us, the questions which unite us. - Janice
Levy
Joy Sypher
There is a series of books out there just for this reason. They are easier to read but use a more advanced subject metter. Unfortunately I can't remember the name. I'll head over to another list and ask there.
Joy in NM
And
old for the easy books when he started learning.>
.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Joy in NM
And
>she doesn't like simple stories anymore.This is also what frustrated Lars so much. And he was definitely way to
old for the easy books when he started learning.>
.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sarah Carothers
Tia wrote:
<I do see him reading more, though I have
no idea how much of it he's comprehending. (And I'm not going to try to
find out!) He still won't tackle fiction, though >
IMO, it's good enough that he's reading manuals and that sort of thing. Oldest dd is also that way.. only wants to read for information but not for pleasure. Her loss, yes, but she'll still be able to get along as an adult with these skills and that's all I care about with regard to reading. Seems your son is the same...
Sarah
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
<I do see him reading more, though I have
no idea how much of it he's comprehending. (And I'm not going to try to
find out!) He still won't tackle fiction, though >
IMO, it's good enough that he's reading manuals and that sort of thing. Oldest dd is also that way.. only wants to read for information but not for pleasure. Her loss, yes, but she'll still be able to get along as an adult with these skills and that's all I care about with regard to reading. Seems your son is the same...
Sarah
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Tia Leschke
At 11:08 AM 03/12/01 -0700, you wrote:
far. But you never know. I think what he'd really like is to be able to
read Harry Potter or Redwall books *easily*.
Tia
Tia Leschke leschke@...
On Vancouver Island
********************************************************************************************
It is the answers which separate us, the questions which unite us. - Janice
Levy
>There is a series of books out there just for this reason. They are easierI've checked out a few of those series. None of them interested him so
>to read but use a more advanced subject metter. Unfortunately I can't
>remember the name. I'll head over to another list and ask there.
far. But you never know. I think what he'd really like is to be able to
read Harry Potter or Redwall books *easily*.
Tia
Tia Leschke leschke@...
On Vancouver Island
********************************************************************************************
It is the answers which separate us, the questions which unite us. - Janice
Levy
Tia Leschke
>I think so. The thing I just don't *get* though, is how he could go from
>IMO, it's good enough that he's reading manuals and that sort of thing.
>Oldest dd is also that way.. only wants to read for information but not
>for pleasure. Her loss, yes, but she'll still be able to get along as an
>adult with these skills and that's all I care about with regard to
>reading. Seems your son is the same...
absolutely loving to have fiction read to him, to not wanting to read it
and rarely wanting it read to him. I can understand not wanting to be read
to at age 14, though I still enjoyed it sometimes at that age as a family
reading time. But to not want to try to read the fiction he's always
loved.....? I guess it's still too hard for him to read fast enough to
enjoy it. When he's reading non-fiction, he's reading for specific info
that he wants.
Tia
Tia Leschke leschke@...
On Vancouver Island
********************************************************************************************
It is the answers which separate us, the questions which unite us. - Janice
Levy
Sarah Carothers
Tia,
DD commented that the Potter books were hard to understand because of the British accent (referring to the books on tape). Maybe it's the same with reading them..unfamiliar phrases and words.
just a thought..
Sarah
DD commented that the Potter books were hard to understand because of the British accent (referring to the books on tape). Maybe it's the same with reading them..unfamiliar phrases and words.
just a thought..
Sarah
----- Original Message -----
From: Tia Leschke
To: [email protected]
Sent: Monday, December 03, 2001 3:10 PM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Re:reading late
At 11:08 AM 03/12/01 -0700, you wrote:
>There is a series of books out there just for this reason. They are easier
>to read but use a more advanced subject metter. Unfortunately I can't
>remember the name. I'll head over to another list and ask there.
I've checked out a few of those series. None of them interested him so
far. But you never know. I think what he'd really like is to be able to
read Harry Potter or Redwall books *easily*.
Tia
Tia Leschke leschke@...
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Tia Leschke
>Tia,They are hard, but that's what he would want to read. And the Redwall
>DD commented that the Potter books were hard to understand because of the
>British accent (referring to the books on tape). Maybe it's the same with
>reading them..unfamiliar phrases and words.
>just a thought..
books are way harder because of the accents. There really isn't that much
in the way of accents in the HP books.
Tia
Tia Leschke leschke@...
On Vancouver Island
********************************************************************************************
It is the answers which separate us, the questions which unite us. - Janice
Levy
Lynda
Eldest son was that way. Like a long dry spell without reading anything
that didn't, I guess you could say, give him something "useful" in return
for his reading. Then at about 20 he became a reading nut just like mom <g>
Now, if he isn't reading, he is listening to books on tape.
Lynda
that didn't, I guess you could say, give him something "useful" in return
for his reading. Then at about 20 he became a reading nut just like mom <g>
Now, if he isn't reading, he is listening to books on tape.
Lynda
----- Original Message -----
From: Tia Leschke <leschke@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, December 03, 2001 12:22 PM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Re:reading late
>
> >
> >IMO, it's good enough that he's reading manuals and that sort of thing.
> >Oldest dd is also that way.. only wants to read for information but not
> >for pleasure. Her loss, yes, but she'll still be able to get along as an
> >adult with these skills and that's all I care about with regard to
> >reading. Seems your son is the same...
>
> I think so. The thing I just don't *get* though, is how he could go from
> absolutely loving to have fiction read to him, to not wanting to read it
> and rarely wanting it read to him. I can understand not wanting to be
read
> to at age 14, though I still enjoyed it sometimes at that age as a family
> reading time. But to not want to try to read the fiction he's always
> loved.....? I guess it's still too hard for him to read fast enough to
> enjoy it. When he's reading non-fiction, he's reading for specific info
> that he wants.
> Tia
>
> Tia Leschke leschke@...
> On Vancouver Island
>
****************************************************************************
****************
> It is the answers which separate us, the questions which unite us. -
Janice
> Levy
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
> Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com
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Tia Leschke
At 03:11 PM 03/12/01 -0800, you wrote:
non-fiction. I read almost nothing but for years. I just want him to be
able to read whatever he wants, and it seems as if he's getting there.
Tia
Tia Leschke leschke@...
On Vancouver Island
********************************************************************************************
It is the answers which separate us, the questions which unite us. - Janice
Levy
>Eldest son was that way. Like a long dry spell without reading anythingWell that's good to hear. I don't have a problem with only reading
>that didn't, I guess you could say, give him something "useful" in return
>for his reading. Then at about 20 he became a reading nut just like mom <g>
>Now, if he isn't reading, he is listening to books on tape.
non-fiction. I read almost nothing but for years. I just want him to be
able to read whatever he wants, and it seems as if he's getting there.
Tia
Tia Leschke leschke@...
On Vancouver Island
********************************************************************************************
It is the answers which separate us, the questions which unite us. - Janice
Levy
Sharon Rudd
Word and phrase order is different than our coloquial
American English down heyah in the wetlands of north
Florida, south Georgia. The rhythem is entirely
different and often the word choice is different.
Sometimes meaning or intent is differnt. The Muggles
are even differnent than the Muggles here abouts. When
I read HP aloud I do occassionaly have to reread
correctly
Sharon
--- Tia Leschke <leschke@...> wrote:
Do You Yahoo!?
Buy the perfect holiday gifts at Yahoo! Shopping.
http://shopping.yahoo.com
American English down heyah in the wetlands of north
Florida, south Georgia. The rhythem is entirely
different and often the word choice is different.
Sometimes meaning or intent is differnt. The Muggles
are even differnent than the Muggles here abouts. When
I read HP aloud I do occassionaly have to reread
correctly
Sharon
--- Tia Leschke <leschke@...> wrote:
>********************************************************************************************
> >Tia,
> >DD commented that the Potter books were hard to
> understand because of the
> >British accent (referring to the books on tape).
> Maybe it's the same with
> >reading them..unfamiliar phrases and words.
> >just a thought..
>
> They are hard, but that's what he would want to
> read. And the Redwall
> books are way harder because of the accents. There
> really isn't that much
> in the way of accents in the HP books.
> Tia
>
> Tia Leschke leschke@...
> On Vancouver Island
>
> It is the answers which separate us, the questions__________________________________________________
> which unite us. - Janice
> Levy
>
>
>
>
>
>
Do You Yahoo!?
Buy the perfect holiday gifts at Yahoo! Shopping.
http://shopping.yahoo.com
Elsa Haas
Off-topic: Anybody out there know something about the Human Genome Project?
(Im just hoping one of you can help me with this, by chance.)
Im drawing a cartoon (for my book on attachment parenting, etc.) in part of
which I want to depict a strand of DNA. All I want to do is make it be
recognizably a strand of DNA by printing the letters standing for the base
pairs (A, G, C, T) on either side of the double helix. But Id rather use
authentic base pair sequences than just put letters in randomly. (What Id
really, really like is to use sequences from chromosomal areas that are
suspected to influence behavior, but maybe thats getting too complicated.)
At one point I found a website with a long, long list of letters standing
for the sequences of base pairs, but I cant find the link I saved. Now the
only websites I can find are hugely complicated, eminently searchable
messes with useless (to me) diagrams and numbers. Can anyone point me in the
right direction?
Elsa Haas
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
(Im just hoping one of you can help me with this, by chance.)
Im drawing a cartoon (for my book on attachment parenting, etc.) in part of
which I want to depict a strand of DNA. All I want to do is make it be
recognizably a strand of DNA by printing the letters standing for the base
pairs (A, G, C, T) on either side of the double helix. But Id rather use
authentic base pair sequences than just put letters in randomly. (What Id
really, really like is to use sequences from chromosomal areas that are
suspected to influence behavior, but maybe thats getting too complicated.)
At one point I found a website with a long, long list of letters standing
for the sequences of base pairs, but I cant find the link I saved. Now the
only websites I can find are hugely complicated, eminently searchable
messes with useless (to me) diagrams and numbers. Can anyone point me in the
right direction?
Elsa Haas
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Lynda
The kidlets got this free thingy they sent away for (a CD, a video and a
booklet) and it was produced by the National Human Genome Institute. Their
website is www.nhgri.nih.gov , Other websites they list are
www.ornl.gov/hgmis www.hhmi.org hhtp://genomics.phrma.org/
www.nature.com/genomics www.scienceonline.org
www.faseb.org/genetics/ashg/ashgmenu.htm www.njgi.nhi.gov/educationkit/
Lynda
booklet) and it was produced by the National Human Genome Institute. Their
website is www.nhgri.nih.gov , Other websites they list are
www.ornl.gov/hgmis www.hhmi.org hhtp://genomics.phrma.org/
www.nature.com/genomics www.scienceonline.org
www.faseb.org/genetics/ashg/ashgmenu.htm www.njgi.nhi.gov/educationkit/
Lynda
----- Original Message -----
From: Elsa Haas <ElsaHaas@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, December 03, 2001 10:18 PM
Subject: RE: [Unschooling-dotcom] OT: Question on genetics
>
>
> Off-topic: Anybody out there know something about the Human Genome
Project?
> (I'm just hoping one of you can help me with this, by chance.)
>
> I'm drawing a cartoon (for my book on attachment parenting, etc.) in part
of
> which I want to depict a strand of DNA. All I want to do is make it be
> recognizably a strand of DNA by printing the letters standing for the base
> pairs (A, G, C, T) on either side of the double helix. But I'd rather use
> authentic base pair sequences than just put letters in randomly. (What I'd
> really, really like is to use sequences from chromosomal areas that are
> suspected to influence behavior, but maybe that's getting too
complicated.)
>
> At one point I found a website with a long, long list of letters standing
> for the sequences of base pairs, but I can't find the link I saved. Now
the
> only websites I can find are hugely complicated, eminently "searchable"
> messes with useless (to me) diagrams and numbers. Can anyone point me in
the
> right direction?
>
> Elsa Haas
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
> Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com
>
> To unsubscribe, set preferences, or read archives:
> http://www.egroups.com/group/Unschooling-dotcom
>
> Another great list sponsored by Home Education Magazine!
> http://www.home-ed-magazine.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
Charles Whittom Jr.
Elsa,
I went to www.nhgri.nih.gov/educationkit/ and ordered a packet on The Human Genome Project. I received it, but we haven't started using it yet. I got it for free. They said at that site that they have other reference resources and will post updates there too.
Hope this helps some.
Charles in TX
Husband to Young, father to 2 dd's Sasha and Stella, and ds Charles III.
I went to www.nhgri.nih.gov/educationkit/ and ordered a packet on The Human Genome Project. I received it, but we haven't started using it yet. I got it for free. They said at that site that they have other reference resources and will post updates there too.
Hope this helps some.
Charles in TX
Husband to Young, father to 2 dd's Sasha and Stella, and ds Charles III.
----- Original Message -----
From: Elsa Haas
To: [email protected]
Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2001 12:18 AM
Subject: RE: [Unschooling-dotcom] OT: Question on genetics
Off-topic: Anybody out there know something about the Human Genome Project?
(I'm just hoping one of you can help me with this, by chance.)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Joy Sypher
This is the response I got from another list I'm on. I remember her son liked these in general because they didn't 'talk down to him' and had an interesting topic. But like you said you might have already tried these.
HTH,Joy in NM
<<The category in general is called Hi-Lo books.
The actual books I had were, I think, Jim Diamond Mysteries, published in the 70s. Probably out of print now, but you can find high/low readers in a lot of places. Ask at a book store, do an internet search, and go to the State Textbook Depository downtown. >>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
HTH,Joy in NM
<<The category in general is called Hi-Lo books.
The actual books I had were, I think, Jim Diamond Mysteries, published in the 70s. Probably out of print now, but you can find high/low readers in a lot of places. Ask at a book store, do an internet search, and go to the State Textbook Depository downtown. >>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Bridget
--- In Unschooling-dotcom@y..., Tia Leschke <leschke@i...> wrote:
periods of reading a mag here and there and not much else. It seems
to just be a natural cyle with me I guess.
Bridget
> I think so. The thing I just don't *get* though, is how he couldgo from
> absolutely loving to have fiction read to him, to not wanting toread it
> and rarely wanting it read to himI still alternate between long periods of voracious reading and long
> Tia
>
periods of reading a mag here and there and not much else. It seems
to just be a natural cyle with me I guess.
Bridget
Joseph Fuerst
Thanks, Joy! Worth checking into. I read Parents Who Love To Read,
Children Who Don't......and one of the main points was that children need to
be successful in reading in order to want to do it more. Other than that,
I know we have a "book rich" environment here.....books of all shapes,
sizes, difficulty levels. I'm feeling more comfortable trusting myself that
she'll get it when she's ready.....thanks mostly to the dialog on this list.
Susan...who has not had a panic phase over this for a few months now.
interesting topic. But like you said you might have already tried these.
HTH,Joy in NM
<<The category in general is called Hi-Lo books.
The actual books I had were, I think, Jim Diamond Mysteries, published in
the 70s. Probably out of print now, but you can find high/low readers in a
lot of places. Ask at a book store, do an internet search, and go to the
State Textbook Depository downtown. >>
Children Who Don't......and one of the main points was that children need to
be successful in reading in order to want to do it more. Other than that,
I know we have a "book rich" environment here.....books of all shapes,
sizes, difficulty levels. I'm feeling more comfortable trusting myself that
she'll get it when she's ready.....thanks mostly to the dialog on this list.
Susan...who has not had a panic phase over this for a few months now.
>>This is the response I got from another list I'm on. I remember her sonliked these in general because they didn't 'talk down to him' and had an
interesting topic. But like you said you might have already tried these.
HTH,Joy in NM
<<The category in general is called Hi-Lo books.
The actual books I had were, I think, Jim Diamond Mysteries, published in
the 70s. Probably out of print now, but you can find high/low readers in a
lot of places. Ask at a book store, do an internet search, and go to the
State Textbook Depository downtown. >>
Joy Sypher
<I read Parents Who Love To Read,
Children Who Don't......>
It was one of the most enlightening moments when I realised that Kenna didn't learn the same way I did. I'm a visual learner and so is Michael, but Kenna is more kinetic, spatial. I see letters and numbers when someone is giving me diections while Kenna see shapes and colors. That was such a big help with unschooling her. Severely cut down on frustration on all sides. My kids don't like all of the same things I do. Maybe Your dd's reading is similar in that she's not learning to read the same way you did?
<I'm feeling more comfortable trusting myself that
she'll get it when she's ready.....thanks mostly to the dialog on this list.
Susan...who has not had a panic phase over this for a few months now.>
I find that if I quit reading this list for awhile I get more of a 'school at home' mentality thing going on. This list and others helps with keeping me relaxed and confident.
Joy in NM
.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Children Who Don't......>
It was one of the most enlightening moments when I realised that Kenna didn't learn the same way I did. I'm a visual learner and so is Michael, but Kenna is more kinetic, spatial. I see letters and numbers when someone is giving me diections while Kenna see shapes and colors. That was such a big help with unschooling her. Severely cut down on frustration on all sides. My kids don't like all of the same things I do. Maybe Your dd's reading is similar in that she's not learning to read the same way you did?
<I'm feeling more comfortable trusting myself that
she'll get it when she's ready.....thanks mostly to the dialog on this list.
Susan...who has not had a panic phase over this for a few months now.>
I find that if I quit reading this list for awhile I get more of a 'school at home' mentality thing going on. This list and others helps with keeping me relaxed and confident.
Joy in NM
.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
rumpleteasermom
--- In Unschooling-dotcom@y..., "Joy Sypher" <AppleCookieRose@m...>
wrote:
Michael, but Kenna is more kinetic, spatial
We have had a lot of linguistic stuff happening around here lately.
The first was the realization that dd 14 'sees' words when she hears
them. I forget what the word was, but she kept question what we
meant when we said something and it turned out to be a homophone
thing happening in her head.
The second was something that we have to work with Vaidas about,
Lithuanian does not have a 'th' sound. He has trouble with things
like 'that' - he writes 'what' and 'other' - he writes 'over'. He
can't pronounce it right either. It's funny really because my mom is
using the same resources for this 18 yo exchange student and my 9 yo
son who has a speech quirk with 'th' too.
The third was a website with a mind game on it involving colors and
words. http://www.optillusions.com/43.html It was interesting to
see who in the family could do it and who could not! Put me in the
could not camp.
In searching for the color site I found this one too . . .Way cool
stuff!!!
http://www.eyetricks.com/
Bridget
wrote:
> It was one of the most enlightening moments when I realised thatKenna didn't learn the same way I did. I'm a visual learner and so is
Michael, but Kenna is more kinetic, spatial
We have had a lot of linguistic stuff happening around here lately.
The first was the realization that dd 14 'sees' words when she hears
them. I forget what the word was, but she kept question what we
meant when we said something and it turned out to be a homophone
thing happening in her head.
The second was something that we have to work with Vaidas about,
Lithuanian does not have a 'th' sound. He has trouble with things
like 'that' - he writes 'what' and 'other' - he writes 'over'. He
can't pronounce it right either. It's funny really because my mom is
using the same resources for this 18 yo exchange student and my 9 yo
son who has a speech quirk with 'th' too.
The third was a website with a mind game on it involving colors and
words. http://www.optillusions.com/43.html It was interesting to
see who in the family could do it and who could not! Put me in the
could not camp.
In searching for the color site I found this one too . . .Way cool
stuff!!!
http://www.eyetricks.com/
Bridget