Sarah Carothers

Tia wrote:
<The more you can pinpoint where the problem is, the easier it will be for
us to come up with suggestions. Above all, help her find books she
enjoys. You do still read to her don't you? >

Yes, we still read to her. She owns lots of books on tape(handed down from older sister). Here is an example of her writing:
a.. that wus cuot mom sind me sumor mom
translated: that was cute, Mom. Send me some more, Mom.
a.. whot r you doing mom
translated: what are you doing Mom?
a.. hey katie you shud wher black i shadoe & black lips and BIG erengs & you shud tolk hooeish i do ont no haw you wood do that but triye i thenk thas all bye
translated: (you don't want to know! It was about a halloween costume for ladies of the night<G>)
Hey Katie you should wear black eye shadow and black lips and BIG earrings & you should talk XXX. I do not know how you would do that but try. I think that is all. Bye.

Does that give you an idea of where she is? If not, I'll try harder to give you more of a description.
Sarah



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Kolleen

>Sarah writes:
> a.. that wus cuot mom sind me sumor mom
> a.. whot r you doing mom
> a.. hey katie you shud wher black i shadoe & black lips and BIG erengs &
>you shud tolk hooeish i do ont no haw you wood do that but triye i thenk
>thas all bye

>
>Does that give you an idea of where she is? If not, I'll try harder to
>give you more of a description.


Gee Sarah, it looks like a chat from an IRC channel. I understood
everything she wrote before you translated. And got a kick out of the
'whore-ish' part.

I know a lot of computer geeks that can hack their way into anything, are
15 years old and still write like that... I've also seen a lot of them
grow up to make mega-bux and communicate pretty well now.

whats the problem? *smile*


Kolleen

Sarah Carothers

Kolleen wrote: <whats the problem? *smile*
Kolleen
>
I sincerely hope you're right, Kolleen. I hope it's just an old worry-wart mother here worrying when she shouldn't be!
Sarah

----- Original Message -----
From: Kolleen
To: Unschooling.com
Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2001 7:34 PM
Subject: Re: reading late, was: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Digest Number 1633


>Sarah writes:
> a.. that wus cuot mom sind me sumor mom
> a.. whot r you doing mom
> a.. hey katie you shud wher black i shadoe & black lips and BIG erengs &
>you shud tolk hooeish i do ont no haw you wood do that but triye i thenk
>thas all bye

>
>Does that give you an idea of where she is? If not, I'll try harder to
>give you more of a description.


Gee Sarah, it looks like a chat from an IRC channel. I understood
everything she wrote before you translated. And got a kick out of the
'whore-ish' part.

I know a lot of computer geeks that can hack their way into anything, are
15 years old and still write like that... I've also seen a lot of them
grow up to make mega-bux and communicate pretty well now.

whats the problem? *smile*


Kolleen



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

Sarah,
I could read your daughter's writing. She is communicating. Invented
spelling was all the rage a few years ago in school. That's how my
nephew learned at his Waldorf school. Your daughter's writing looks
just like my son's when he was first learning how to read. I don't think
you have to worry.

Nobody ever listens to me (sniff) but I'd avoid the whole therapist
thing. You'd just be confirming her suspicion that there's something
wrong with her. I'd take her dancing instead.

My son and I used to parachute out of a plane ( the dining room table)
into enemy territory, ( the dining room ) then sneak through the dark
jungle (living room, kitchen ). In a small clearing (breakfast nook ) we
would drink from a crystal clear pool ( dog bowl - just pretend drinking)
unaware that it had been poisoned.
We didn't die, but we couldn't talk. We had to communicate with notes.
Brief notes. Sometimes I could just barely whisper what I had written, "
Mommy loves you, don't eat the frogs". He would keep the little notes,
and read them later to daddy.

There are lots of ways to get reading practice if your child wants it.
It doesn't need to involve a Dr.

Deb L

Sarah Carothers

Deb L.,
I *LOVED* your parachuting adventure!!
I might just listen to you because after sending in a sample of the writing, I'm getting the strong impression from several of you that dd's not doing so bad and my fears are premature at best.
...dogbowl a crystal clear pool <g> I hope you've recorded this somehow for future reference. Those are the dreams to look back on and smile.
Sarah

----- Original Message -----
From: ddzimlew@...
To: [email protected]
Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2001 9:35 PM
Subject: Re: reading late, was: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Digest Number 1633


Sarah,
I could read your daughter's writing. She is communicating. Invented
spelling was all the rage a few years ago in school. That's how my
nephew learned at his Waldorf school. Your daughter's writing looks
just like my son's when he was first learning how to read. I don't think
you have to worry.

Nobody ever listens to me (sniff) but I'd avoid the whole therapist
thing. You'd just be confirming her suspicion that there's something
wrong with her. I'd take her dancing instead.

My son and I used to parachute out of a plane ( the dining room table)
into enemy territory, ( the dining room ) then sneak through the dark
jungle (living room, kitchen ). In a small clearing (breakfast nook ) we
would drink from a crystal clear pool ( dog bowl - just pretend drinking)
unaware that it had been poisoned.
We didn't die, but we couldn't talk. We had to communicate with notes.
Brief notes. Sometimes I could just barely whisper what I had written, "
Mommy loves you, don't eat the frogs". He would keep the little notes,
and read them later to daddy.

There are lots of ways to get reading practice if your child wants it.
It doesn't need to involve a Dr.

Deb L



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Elsa Haas

Sarah,

Just a quick thought: if your daughter were growing up in, for example,
Spain (I’m picking that country because I’ve lived there), would she have
any difficulty learning to read or write?

English is one of the least phonetically consistent languages on Earth
(among those that have a phonetic alphabet, as opposed to an ideographic one
like Chinese). Spanish is one of the most phonetically consistent.

I’ve never heard of anyone doing this, but what if you got her some contact
with somebody fluent in Spanish (preferably a native speaker) so that she
could see that her problems are partly due to the simple accident of her
birthplace?

If she could learn to read and write correctly in Spanish (even just on a
basic level) maybe the experience of reading fluently or of other people
reading her notes with no problems at all would give her some sort of
confidence in her ability to learn to read and write in English.

If you’re interested, I once developed a method of learning foreign
languages that I use when I want to start learning a new one.

Elsa Haas

-----Original Message-----
From: Sarah Carothers [mailto:puddles@...]
Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2001 7:24 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: reading late, was: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Digest Number 1633

Tia wrote:
<The more you can pinpoint where the problem is, the easier it will be for
us to come up with suggestions. Above all, help her find books she
enjoys. You do still read to her don't you? >

Yes, we still read to her. She owns lots of books on tape(handed down from
older sister). Here is an example of her writing:
a.. that wus cuot mom sind me sumor mom
translated: that was cute, Mom. Send me some more, Mom.
a.. whot r you doing mom
translated: what are you doing Mom?
a.. hey katie you shud wher black i shadoe & black lips and BIG erengs &
you shud tolk hooeish i do ont no haw you wood do that but triye i thenk
thas all bye
translated: (you don't want to know! It was about a halloween costume for
ladies of the night<G>)
Hey Katie you should wear black eye shadow and black lips and BIG earrings &
you should talk XXX. I do not know how you would do that but try. I think
that is all. Bye.

Does that give you an idea of where she is? If not, I'll try harder to give
you more of a description.
Sarah



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Fetteroll

on 11/30/01 3:54 AM, Elsa Haas at ElsaHaas@... wrote:

> If you’re interested, I once developed a method of learning foreign
> languages that I use when I want to start learning a new one.

That would be interesting. I'd like to see what you came up with when you
get the chance.

Joyce


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

On Thu, 29 Nov 2001 19:35:34 -0700 ddzimlew@... writes:
> Sarah,
> I could read your daughter's writing. She is communicating. Invented
> spelling was all the rage a few years ago in school. That's how my
> nephew learned at his Waldorf school. Your daughter's writing looks
> just like my son's when he was first learning how to read. I don't
think
> you have to worry.
>

If the spelling were the only thing you told us about I'd say the same
thing. But you did say she is frustrated with her inability to read
too?? Right??

> Nobody ever listens to me (sniff) but I'd avoid the whole therapist
> thing. You'd just be confirming her suspicion that there's something
> wrong with her. I'd take her dancing instead.

I think that depends on how it is presented to her. If you say, "We are
going to go find out what's wrong with you." She will feel that way.
But if you say, "We are going to go see if this person can help you find
a way to do what you want to do." She will look at it as a good thing.
There is nothing wrong with needing help.


Bridget
Nollaig Shona -- S�och�in ar domhan,
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------
Take your life in your own hands and what happens? A terrible thing: no
one to blame.
- Erica Jong

[email protected]

Deb L wrote:
<<My son and I used to parachute out of a plane ( the dining room table)
into enemy territory, ( the dining room ) then sneak through the dark
jungle (living room, kitchen ). In a small clearing (breakfast nook ) we
would drink from a crystal clear pool ( dog bowl - just pretend drinking)
unaware that it had been poisoned.
We didn't die, but we couldn't talk. We had to communicate with notes.
Brief notes. Sometimes I could just barely whisper what I had written, "
Mommy loves you, don't eat the frogs". He would keep the little notes,
and read them later to daddy.
There are lots of ways to get reading practice if your child wants it. >>

How wonderfully creative! I love this idea!
Elissa

Sarah Carothers

Well, I talked to her about it last night and offered to take her to
somebody who might be able to help us find a way to make reading easier for
her. She declined my offer but went on to find a book (I'd guess about a
level 3 if it were rated), read it... struggle with some words but
*refused*to let me help her with them . There were some looooooong pauses
but she would eventually figure out the word (sounding out phoneticly).
These pauses were unbelievably long and made me uncomfortable. I realized
that *part* of our problem is I'm impatient. I see her struggling so I jump
in and tell her the word. She doesn't like this *at all*.
Anyway, I believe she does have a learning problem of some sort. Dyslexia?
Who knows... I'd catagorize her problem as mild, though because she *is*
able to process some of the written word.
More than that, though, I think *I* could be her biggest obstacle because of
my rush-rush personality which doesn't allow her the time she needs to
figure things out.
I wouldn't have come to this conclusion so quickly had it not been for all
or your posts on this list, throwing out suggestions and ideas. I don't
know if we'll ever make it to a therapist or if she'll scoot along on her
own but I feel better about seeing a clearer picture right here under my own
nose.
Thanks everybody,
Sarah

----- Original Message -----
From: <rumpleteasermom@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, November 30, 2001 9:55 AM
Subject: Re: reading late, was: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Digest Number 1633


>
>
> On Thu, 29 Nov 2001 19:35:34 -0700 ddzimlew@... writes:
> > Sarah,
> > I could read your daughter's writing. She is communicating. Invented
> > spelling was all the rage a few years ago in school. That's how my
> > nephew learned at his Waldorf school. Your daughter's writing looks
> > just like my son's when he was first learning how to read. I don't
> think
> > you have to worry.
> >
>
> If the spelling were the only thing you told us about I'd say the same
> thing. But you did say she is frustrated with her inability to read
> too?? Right??
>
> > Nobody ever listens to me (sniff) but I'd avoid the whole therapist
> > thing. You'd just be confirming her suspicion that there's something
> > wrong with her. I'd take her dancing instead.
>
> I think that depends on how it is presented to her. If you say, "We are
> going to go find out what's wrong with you." She will feel that way.
> But if you say, "We are going to go see if this person can help you find
> a way to do what you want to do." She will look at it as a good thing.
> There is nothing wrong with needing help.
>
>
> Bridget
> Nollaig Shona -- Síocháin ar domhan,

Tia Leschke

>
>
>Yes, we still read to her. She owns lots of books on tape(handed down from
>older sister). Here is an example of her writing:
> a.. that wus cuot mom sind me sumor mom
>translated: that was cute, Mom. Send me some more, Mom.
> a.. whot r you doing mom
>translated: what are you doing Mom?
> a.. hey katie you shud wher black i shadoe & black lips and BIG erengs
> & you shud tolk hooeish i do ont no haw you wood do that but triye i
> thenk thas all bye
>translated: (you don't want to know! It was about a halloween costume for
>ladies of the night<G>)

I didn't have any trouble reading that. My 14 year old writes much like
that. <g>

Ok. Shud is pretty phonetic. She's probably seen where enough times to
get it mixed up with wear. That's a hard word to spell
phonetically. Obviously she doesn't yet know that eye is spelled
differently than I. Shadoe seems a pretty good phonetic
approximation. Earrings is a hard one unless you know ear. And maybe she
pronounces it engs rather than ings. Short vowels seem to be really hard
to differentiate for some kids. I'm not going to go through the whole
thing, but she seems to be getting at least some of the phonics. If you
think she needs more work in that area and she *wants* to, you might try
the book I recommended, The Road to Reading. (I remember it was a pretty
rigid program, with both reading and writing. I only followed it loosely
with Lars.)

>Does that give you an idea of where she is? If not, I'll try harder to
>give you more of a description.

Writing is a whole different skill than reading, though it can give you a
clue whether they've got the phonics. What kind of words does she stumble
on when she reads? Do you see any pattern? Another thing to think about
is that reading out loud is a very different skill from reading
silently. You might suggest that she read to herself and just show you or
spell out any words she can't read on her own. If you do this, *don't*
then tell her to sound it out. Just tell her the word. If she seems
willing, you might tell her some of the other words in the same family,
like all, call, wall, ball, etc., but stop if you get any signals that the
info isn't wanted then. She mostly just needs to focus on what she's
reading at the time.
Tia

Tia Leschke leschke@...
On Vancouver Island
********************************************************************************************
It is the answers which separate us, the questions which unite us. - Janice
Levy

Bridget

--- In Unschooling-dotcom@y..., "Sarah Carothers" <puddles@t...>
wrote:
> Well, I talked to her about it last night and offered to take her to
> somebody who might be able to help us find a way to make reading
easier for
> her. She declined my offer but went on to find a book (I'd guess
about a
> level 3 if it were rated), read it... struggle with some words but
> *refused*to let me help her with them .

I have some suggestions if she does not want to go for testing,

1. Do some research of your own. Understanding the problem may help
you help her address it. There are things that dyslexics can try
that really help some.

2. This is anecdotal: My dh worked with a dyslexic DJ for many
years. When he had to read anything on-air, he would print it out
with HUGE letters - or scroll it across the computer in huge letters.

3. Experiment with learning Braille. The problem can sometimes be
in the pathway between the eyes reading and the brain comprehending,
Braille takes that out of the equation.

4. Make sure Hannah understands that asking for help is not
admitting failure. I'm nearly blind without my glasses, asking an eye
doctor for help was not an admission of failure. Rachel is non-
functional without her Prozac - asking for help was her only way of
not failing. Too many people assume that to apply a "label" is
limiting and always bad. Sometimes identifying a problem is the only
way to find a solution.

Bridget
Nollaig Shona -- Síocháin ar domhan

Sarah Carothers

Hello Bridget,
I don't think Hannah refused help because it would be admitting failure. I think she does lots of things out of fear (of the unknown). She at least knows the option is there and will say something to me if she changes her mind. Meanwhile, I'm going to take you up on your suggestion to learn more about Dyslexia and LD's. Do you or anyone else have any book recommendations? I've read The Gift of Dyslexia so.... any others?
Thanks a lot!
Sarah



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Tia Leschke

>There were some looooooong pauses
>but she would eventually figure out the word (sounding out phoneticly).
>These pauses were unbelievably long and made me uncomfortable. I realized
>that *part* of our problem is I'm impatient. I see her struggling so I jump
>in and tell her the word. She doesn't like this *at all*.

This is something that Lars hates. One of the problems we had working with
reading is that we didn't figure out a signal that he could use to let me
know that he wanted help. You might want to talk with your daughter about
how she wants you to handle those spaces. Just wait? Wait till she asks
for help? She gives you a signal that says she wants help?

>More than that, though, I think *I* could be her biggest obstacle because of
>my rush-rush personality which doesn't allow her the time she needs to
>figure things out.

This is one reason I suggested that you try having her read silently, just
pointing to or spelling out words she wants help with. Then you could be
doing something else (that you don't mind interruptions with) and just tell
her the words. This way, you wouldn't even know that she was struggling
until she asked you a word, and your impatience wouldn't come into it.
Tia

Tia Leschke leschke@...
On Vancouver Island
********************************************************************************************
It is the answers which separate us, the questions which unite us. - Janice
Levy