[email protected]

**She was teased at her gymnastics class because 1)she is the only
homeschooler and 2)she hadn't memorized her times tables.**

Did you also point out that there's an excellent chance that at least half of
those doing the teasing don't have *their* times tables memorized either, but
were going along with the teasing out of fear of being discovered?

If you can raise kids so they aren't afraid to say "I don't know" and then
able to decide if they want to know or not, you'll have done a good job.
That's the worst thing schools and parents do to kids, set the rules and the
stakes in such a way that we (societal we) say to them that learning is
important while at the same time making it emotionally risky to admit to not
knowing something, which is where learning starts.

In all my schooling, almost every teacher said at the beginning of the class
"There's no such thing as a stupid question." Almost every one of them failed
to support that philosophy in the classroom. Some actually ridiculed kids for
questions ("You should know that by now!") but most "merely" allowed teasing,
sighed over the tenth question in a row from a particular child, and in many
other ways showed their frustration over questions. Kids learn pretty quickly
(most of them) that questions "for show" are safer than real honest "I'm so
confused" questions, and it isn't long before in most classrooms the only
kids asking questions are the ones who are savvy enough to know what the
teacher wants asked, to be able to figure out the script the teacher is
working from.

Deborah in IL

[email protected]

Hello again!
We have a situation here and I'm wondering how other unschoolers
would handle it.

Our home is located across from a Little League field. We have tons
of mainstream, public schooled children around in the Spring and
Summer. My children LOVE the energy and enjoy playing with
different children all the time.

However ... there have been a few girls who have teased Kaylie and
Sara ... saying mean things about homeschoolers or
homeschooling ... typical but still hard. Those "mean girls"
usually hang out w/ a couple of sweet girls who are nice to my
children, so my girls don't want to leave and play at home ... but
those "mean girls" quiz my girls by asking "What's 2 X 2?" and
then if/when my girls answer, the quizzing continues, getting more
difficult, until the time comes that my girls have no answer. It is
so ridiculous but of course, important to my girls. One particular
girl is very competitive w/ my 7 yr old (who is taller/heavier than
girls her age) and claims "I can run faster than you" ... etc. I
have responded to that by informing Kaylie that she may run a little
slower but is likely much stronger than that little 7 yr old. Not
sure if that is the right approach. Sometimes I wanna run over
there and scream and throw sand in those little "mean" faces.
ROFL! Pick on my babies will you... LOL~ Obviously I resist that
urge and try to handle it appropriately, but I'm not sure what the
right thing is. My girls would rather stay and play and risk hurt
feelings than not have any friends to play w/ at the field.

I've tried giving my girls a confidence boost by telling them all of
the wonderful things about homeschooling, and asking their favorite
things about homeschooling ... I've told them about all of the
famous homeschoolers ... etc.

Those "mean girls" are still at it and my girls are not sure how to
handle it. (they are 5 and 7 yrs old) ... I've told them they are
welcome to play at the field and if the teasing or insults become
too much, they are safe here at home. I'm not sure if I should
encourage them to defend themselves/homeschooling or just ignore
this teasing. I've even told the girls (and my older son when it
happened to him) that those schooled children are probably
jealous!

How do other people and their children handle public school teasing,
etc?

Sherry in NJ
Unschooling Mom to 4
*Skin Creatures*
Christopher - 14; Kaylie - 7;
Sara - 5; Dylan - 11mos

[email protected]

In a message dated 5/6/04 7:35:19 AM, Mamaperk@... writes:

<< Obviously I resist that

urge and try to handle it appropriately, but I'm not sure what the

right thing is. >>

Maybe going over and asking the girls to be nicer to your girls wouldn't be
at all inappropriate.

The biggest problem with school playgrounds is the teachers want SOME time,
and they tend to talk to each other instead of being right where the kids are.


Kids too far from parents for too long might start to behave school-like, and
when some of them are already school-like, I'd say don't leave them too long.
<g>

Holly had a math problem she would ask back of people who quizzed her. It
was something she had memorized, and wasn't in the regular times tables, but she
had memorized the answer and it was something in the range of 23 times 7 or
something like that. That's an idea. <G>

<<My girls would rather stay and play and risk hurt

feelings than not have any friends to play w/ at the field.>>

But isn't that how all of life is to some extent? People risk hurt feelings
to have ANY friends, or to get married, or to have children. <g>

Sandra

Cornerstone Community Farm

On Thursday 06 May 2004 08:33 am, Mamaperk@... wrote:
> What's 2 X 2?" and
> then if/when my girls answer, the quizzing continues, gettin
Teach them to ignore rude people.
Ignoring them will diffuse the situation.
Besides tell your children that for every question they do not know,
they are many others their "friends" will not be able to answer.

J. Stauffer

<<<< How do other people and their children handle public school teasing,
> etc?>>>>

It sucks when people are mean to your kids.

What are your kids into? My guess is that they know things the other kids
don't and they can just quiz them back.

My dd is into goats and would quiz back about breeds of goats, number of
stomachs, how to tell labor is imminent, etc.. Shut them up and gave her
some confidence.

julie S.

----- Original Message -----
From: <Mamaperk@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 8:33 AM
Subject: [UnschoolingDiscussion] teasing


> Hello again!
> We have a situation here and I'm wondering how other unschoolers
> would handle it.
>
> Our home is located across from a Little League field. We have tons
> of mainstream, public schooled children around in the Spring and
> Summer. My children LOVE the energy and enjoy playing with
> different children all the time.
>
> However ... there have been a few girls who have teased Kaylie and
> Sara ... saying mean things about homeschoolers or
> homeschooling ... typical but still hard. Those "mean girls"
> usually hang out w/ a couple of sweet girls who are nice to my
> children, so my girls don't want to leave and play at home ... but
> those "mean girls" quiz my girls by asking "What's 2 X 2?" and
> then if/when my girls answer, the quizzing continues, getting more
> difficult, until the time comes that my girls have no answer. It is
> so ridiculous but of course, important to my girls. One particular
> girl is very competitive w/ my 7 yr old (who is taller/heavier than
> girls her age) and claims "I can run faster than you" ... etc. I
> have responded to that by informing Kaylie that she may run a little
> slower but is likely much stronger than that little 7 yr old. Not
> sure if that is the right approach. Sometimes I wanna run over
> there and scream and throw sand in those little "mean" faces.
> ROFL! Pick on my babies will you... LOL~ Obviously I resist that
> urge and try to handle it appropriately, but I'm not sure what the
> right thing is. My girls would rather stay and play and risk hurt
> feelings than not have any friends to play w/ at the field.
>
> I've tried giving my girls a confidence boost by telling them all of
> the wonderful things about homeschooling, and asking their favorite
> things about homeschooling ... I've told them about all of the
> famous homeschoolers ... etc.
>
> Those "mean girls" are still at it and my girls are not sure how to
> handle it. (they are 5 and 7 yrs old) ... I've told them they are
> welcome to play at the field and if the teasing or insults become
> too much, they are safe here at home. I'm not sure if I should
> encourage them to defend themselves/homeschooling or just ignore
> this teasing. I've even told the girls (and my older son when it
> happened to him) that those schooled children are probably
> jealous!
>
> How do other people and their children handle public school teasing,
> etc?
>
> Sherry in NJ
> Unschooling Mom to 4
> *Skin Creatures*
> Christopher - 14; Kaylie - 7;
> Sara - 5; Dylan - 11mos
>
>
>
>
> "List Posting Policies" are provided in the files area of this group.
>
> Visit the Unschooling website and message boards:
http://www.unschooling.com
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Mary

From: <Mamaperk@...>

<<How do other people and their children handle public school teasing,
etc?>>



This actually happened once with Joseph at the park. A boy a year older than
him started with asking where he went to school. Once he found out Joseph
didn't, he started with the teasing and asking questions. He asked Joseph
some history question and Joseph just said he didn't know. Then he turned
the tables around and started quizzing the kid about numbers, which Joseph
can do well in his head. Well that really pissed the kid off because he
didn't know and it turned physical that fast. As soon as I saw the kid
strike his "bring it on" pose, I was over there in a second. Joseph had no
clue this kid was ready to belt him. I asked the kid if there was a problem
and he told me Joseph was lonely!!! I had to actually laugh at that. He was
the one that approached Joseph. I wonder where the kid heard that from?

It was over and Joseph had a really hard time understanding why this kid got
so mad and wanted to fight. He really had no clue he could get popped for
something like that.

When teasing happened after, my kids just really shrug their shoulders and
say they don't care that the other can run faster, jump higher or answer
questions better. My kids really don't let that bother them and I can say it
doesn't happen often.

The few times my kids have been bothered, I go over and talk to the
child/children like I would if they were mine. I ask what's wrong and ask
them to be nicer and let them know they can all play together without
teasing over differences. That actually takes care of things.

If it gets bad, my kids just pretty much stay away.

Mary B

[email protected]

<< Teach them to ignore rude people.

Ignoring them will diffuse the situation. >>

Depends when and how they ignore people.
It won't make them friends, and it will make some situations worse.

I recommend against teaching kids ANY hard and fast "always" rules. There's
very little information that will work in all situations. Helping them have
a little "toolbox" of alternatives and ideas will be better than teaching them
to ignore, or teaching them to fight back, or teaching them to get an adult,
or any one single teaching.

Sandra

pam sorooshian

On May 6, 2004, at 7:38 AM, SandraDodd@... wrote:

> Maybe going over and asking the girls to be nicer to your girls
> wouldn't be
> at all inappropriate.

Or - get a group of them together and talk, for just 2 or 3 minutes,
about how great it can be for kids to play together without teasing and
how it is hard sometimes, but very worth it, to work on being good
friends and playmates. If you can do this without casting blame, but
sort of try to inspire them to "see" a higher level of what is possible
- how very NICE life can be if they work a bit on being kind - you
might just catch hold of some part of their better selves. You can
talk about how people need other people to defend them and care about
them and how much nicer it is to play with people when everybody cares
about each other.

Even if you don't change the particular problem kids, you influence the
kids who otherwise might just "go along" so that maybe they won't put
up with negative stuff as much.

If you can be uplifting and inspiring and it helps, I really think it
is better than starting with orders, demands, or threats. When you're
talking to them, you want to create a sense of teamwork, not leave them
feeling like adversaries.


If it doesn't work - you can still go with the firm requests later.

-pam
National Home Education Network
<www.NHEN.org>
Serving the entire homeschooling community since 1999
through information, networking and public relations.

[email protected]

In a message dated 5/6/2004 8:44:49 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
pamsoroosh@... writes:
Or - get a group of them together and talk, for just 2 or 3 minutes,
about how great it can be for kids to play together without teasing and
how it is hard sometimes, but very worth it, to work on being good
friends and playmates. If you can do this without casting blame, but
sort of try to inspire them to "see" a higher level of what is possible
- how very NICE life can be if they work a bit on being kind - you
might just catch hold of some part of their better selves




I've found there is a very fine line between causing more problems for my
children, by "talking" to the group about politeness or friendliness. It
definitely depends on the age group of the children. Sometimes it's better to let
the children find their own way in the group of children. Remembering that
you've allowed your child to grow and be strong and secure in their own being and
they won't allow more behaviours towards them, than they are benefitting
from. If it gets to hateful, they know they can come home to you. They know they
can walk away at any time. It's not like they are stuck in a classroom with
these children or even have to see them every day at school or on the bus.

On the other hand if violence is involved, definitely takes some
intervention, either by strongly suggesting my own children not go there to play or
somehow removing them from danger.

Kids have a way of working things out though. Almost always. I think it's
harder for the mom to watch and hear from the outside than it is for the
children sometimes. I know I've had days I wanted to just snatch a child up and
make them listen to me as I tell them how NOT to be to my children. I almost
always resisted! <g>

glena


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

pam sorooshian

On May 7, 2004, at 7:56 AM, rubyprincesstsg@... wrote:
>
>
> I've found there is a very fine line between causing more problems for
> my
> children, by "talking" to the group about politeness or friendliness.

I'm talking about inspiring them - talking about how GREAT things can
be. Some people can be inspiring to a group and some can't talk to them
without making the kids feel that they've been chastised and THAT can
cause more problems.

> It
> definitely depends on the age group of the children.

No, I don't agree. Kids and adults of all ages can be inspired to
behave more kindly.

> Sometimes it's better to let
> the children find their own way in the group of children.

Sometimes people do that because they don't know how to intervene
without making things worse, this is especially true if the adults
can't talk about problems without making the kids feel they are being
blamed, but it IS possible to let all the kids know you're there to
help and that they are NOT just being left on their own to find their
own way all by themselves. And it is possible to inspire many of them
to feel more supportive of each other and less likely, as a group, to
tolerate hurtful behaviors.

> Remembering that
> you've allowed your child to grow and be strong and secure in their
> own being and
> they won't allow more behaviours towards them, than they are
> benefitting
> from.

Group interactions outside the family are different. Several individual
children may be feeling hurt, but covering it up with bravado or
withdrawing or whatever - and other children may be feeling a bit of
discomfort but, not communicating that to each other, they don't stand
together and make it clear that the meanness is not okay with them.
Each thinks it is just them, sometimes. Other times they just don't
realize that their friends are really being hurt. When a caring and
kind adult steps in to encourage and support their best instincts, to
defend their friends from being hurt, for example, and to speak out if
they are not comfortable, that can definitely help the kids handle the
problems. An adult can remind the kids, "If you think your friend's
feelings are being hurt, remember that they'll feel better if they know
you didn't like it and didn't agree." Kids might not think about this
on their own. An adult can say, "If somebody is hurting your friend's
feelings, you might make things better if you say something like, 'Stop
it, that's hurting her feelings,'" Sometimes kids NEED adults to help
them - to help them recognize or articulate things. To help them feel
like they have ways to resolve problems, together, and that they have
your backing, too.
> If it gets to hateful, they know they can come home to you. They know
> they
> can walk away at any time. It's not like they are stuck in a
> classroom with
> these children or even have to see them every day at school or on the
> bus.
>
These are situations where the kids want to be there, obviously. The
answer isn't to just abandon them to the group - if they want to be
there they have to put up with whatever since they have the option to
just leave. Adults or other kids, for that matter, can help the whole
group work better for everybody. Lots of times kids just need a little
help in recognizing what is happening.

> On the other hand if violence is involved, definitely takes some
> intervention, either by strongly suggesting my own children not go
> there to play or
> somehow removing them from danger.
>
Waiting until there is violence involved is far more hands-off than I
think we need to be - hurtful behavior, teasing and insulting, is
common among groups of kids, but we can help them be kinder to each
other and they can get the feeling of how NICE it is to play together
when the insulting and teasing is absent and when tolerance and
kindness is the norm.

> Kids have a way of working things out though. Almost always.

No they don't. They often need us to be there for them - leaving them
to their own devices is what happens on the school playgrounds.

> I think it's
> harder for the mom to watch and hear from the outside than it is for
> the
> children sometimes.

You seem to think I'm talking about parents stepping in and telling
kids what to do or not do:

> I know I've had days I wanted to just snatch a child up and
> make them listen to me as I tell them how NOT to be to my children. I
> almost
> always resisted! <g>
>

And what i was saying was not at ALL about telling individual kids how
NOT to be. I think you didn't get the point. You sound afraid that
parents talking to kids will make the kids behave worse or something.
That is not my experience at all. My experience is that parents should
be THERE and that the kids need to know that parents are there and
ready and willing to help them out. I think lots of kids just want to
have a good time and don't feel good, themselves, when other kids are
getting their feelings hurt, but they don't do anything about it for
various reasons. We can help and inspire those kids who don't like
teasing, much less bullying, to feel strong enough to stand together
and defend each other and to create play groups that function the way
THEY want them. It does take a certain attitude on the parents' parts
and stepping in with an attitude of blame and of defending only our own
children and telling kids what to do and what not to do is not at ALL
what I was talking about.


> Or - get a group of them together and talk, for just 2 or 3 minutes,
> about how great it can be for kids to play together without teasing and
> how it is hard sometimes, but very worth it, to work on being good
> friends and playmates. If you can do this without casting blame, but
> sort of try to inspire them to "see" a higher level of what is possible
> - how very NICE life can be if they work a bit on being kind - you
> might just catch hold of some part of their better selves
> glena
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
> "List Posting Policies" are provided in the files area of this group.
>
> Visit the Unschooling website and message boards:
> http://www.unschooling.com
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
National Home Education Network
<www.NHEN.org>
Serving the entire homeschooling community since 1999
through information, networking and public relations.

[email protected]

In a message dated 5/7/2004 2:36:32 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
pamsoroosh@... writes:

> My experience is that parents should
> be THERE and that the kids need to know that parents are there and
> ready and willing to help them out. I think lots of kids just want to
> have a good time and don't feel good, themselves, when other kids are
> getting their feelings hurt, but they don't do anything about it for
> various reasons.



I liked your post, alot. I think for younger than school age children it
very well might work to encourage them to be kinder and give them a "pep" talk on
kindness and such.

School age children, more often than not, in my experience take any effort of
that sort and feel it is interfering from a parent of a child, especially one
that have been picking on or teasing. A parent to the rescue whether being
extremely nice or being condescending or even threatening, often has exactly
the same response from children, further causing problems for the very children
you'd hope to make more comfortable.

Maybe if my children were playing at the ball fields (as they often have) I
might send them along with some cookies or even show up with some popsicles to
share with their new "friends". Maybe just showing a kindness might evoke a
kinder attitude. MAYBE, I think a LOT of words sometimes just get tuned out by
kids from sitting and just hearing words all day in a classroom.

Maybe explaining the virtues of kindness and how it might work to everyone in
the groups advantage would work on some groups but from my own personal
experiences it would probably have about the same affect as telling them not to
mess with YOUR KID.

I live in a transient area, lots of military children, lots of FBI and
children of political party families that move with the administration change.
Maybe in the part of the State that I grew up in, a talk on kindness would be the
thing, here it simply wouldn't.

I wish it would, that would be wonderful if that's all it took to stop the
wicked teasing that some kids experience on a daily basis.

glena


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

pam sorooshian

On May 7, 2004, at 1:37 PM, rubyprincesstsg@... wrote:

> In a message dated 5/7/2004 2:36:32 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
> pamsoroosh@... writes:
>
>> My experience is that parents should
>> be THERE and that the kids need to know that parents are there and
>> ready and willing to help them out. I think lots of kids just want to
>> have a good time and don't feel good, themselves, when other kids are
>> getting their feelings hurt, but they don't do anything about it for
>> various reasons.
>
>
>
> I liked your post, alot. I think for younger than school age children
> it
> very well might work to encourage them to be kinder and give them a
> "pep" talk on
> kindness and such.

I'm not talking about younger than school-age children. I'm talking
about all ages including teenagers.

>
> School age children, more often than not, in my experience take any
> effort of
> that sort and feel it is interfering from a parent of a child,
> especially one
> that have been picking on or teasing.

I didn't say it would always work to stop the teasing child. I said
that it would help empower the OTHER children, those who are being
teased and those who are letting it slide, feeling uncomfortable
because their friend is being teased but not doing anything about it.
It can help the 'rest' of the group of kids recognize that they aren't
the only ones feeling uncomfortable and it can support them in standing
up for each other. THEY can change the tone and make it unacceptable
for the teasing to go on. THEY often have that power, but they don't
realize it, sometimes, or don't realize that everybody could work
together to achieve it.

> A parent to the rescue

Not talking about "a parent to the rescue" - I'm talking about
something very different.

> whether being
> extremely nice or being condescending or even threatening, often has
> exactly
> the same response from children,

I'm not talking about a parent just doing the same old thing, telling
the kids to behave better, but doing it nicely.

> further causing problems for the very children
> you'd hope to make more comfortable.
>
Try to pretend for a minute I'm talking about an adult doing something
you haven't actually envisioned doing. We are talking about unschooling
parents - not just anybody. First, remember, I said 2 or 3 minutes - so
we're talking a very brief little interlude. Second, I said the parent
isn't accusing or blaming or saying anybody is at fault, no matter HOW
nicely they say it. Third, I'm assuming the parents are the type to be
involved and friendly and do things together with ALL the kids,
because, in general, that is true of unschooling parents, they get to
know the kids their friends play with, they are generally well-liked by
the kids their friends play with because they are fun and generous and
kind. They tend to have a certain amount of natural "authority" - not
to make demands and give orders, but to be taken seriously and listened
to carefully.

> Maybe if my children were playing at the ball fields (as they often
> have) I
> might send them along with some cookies or even show up with some
> popsicles to
> share with their new "friends". Maybe just showing a kindness might
> evoke a
> kinder attitude.

If there was an ongoing situation, I'd be over there, sitting under a
tree with a book, with goodies, with some games, with whatever I
happened to have that might interest the kids. A puppy. Whatever! <G>
If kids are having problems with other kids, they NEED their parents
nearby. And, unschooling parents tend to be pretty nice to be around
and other kids tend to like them a lot.

> MAYBE, I think a LOT of words sometimes just get tuned out by
> kids from sitting and just hearing words all day in a classroom.

You're making up something in your head that you think I'm describing,
but it isn't what I've described. Try rereading it. AND - the kids who
we are talking about, at least a couple of them are unschoolers. You
are persisting in thinking that I'm just suggesting some sort of
sweetened-lecture directed at the problem kids, but that is not what I
had suggested.

>
> Maybe explaining the virtues of kindness and how it might work to
> everyone in
> the groups advantage would work on some groups but from my own personal
> experiences it would probably have about the same affect as telling
> them not to
> mess with YOUR KID.

Well, that's your experience. I think it is probably because you were
still directing it at the problem kids and everybody knew it. My
suggestion is not directed at them - in fact, they don't have to even
BE there - it is all the OTHER kids that need the empowerment to resist
falling into step with the belittling and insulting tone that a few
might set.

>
> I live in a transient area, lots of military children, lots of FBI and
> children of political party families that move with the administration
> change.
> Maybe in the part of the State that I grew up in, a talk on kindness
> would be the
> thing, here it simply wouldn't.

You thought I was offering a magic bullet - that I thought a parent
could lecture some teasing kid about how much nicer the world would be
if they'd just be nice? And that would magically change their behavior?
Nah. I'm not stupid. I suggested something that might help to empower
the children to feel strong enough to take some control over the tone
of their own playtime under conditions in which they ARE having a good
enough time to want to stay, but are repeatedly getting hurt feelings,
too. I suggested that parents try this approach first, because it is
more empowering to the kids, before they resort to going over and tell
the problem-causing kid to knock it off.

>
> I wish it would, that would be wonderful if that's all it took to stop
> the
> wicked teasing that some kids experience on a daily basis.
>

You generalized to a larger problem and what I offered is not
generalizable. I'm not talking about teasing that goes in in schools,
for example. I'm not talking about bullying or physical violence. I'm
talking about kids who are pretty much having a good time playing
together in a group and want to continue, but could use some help in
how to handle it when a kid or two is causing hurt feelings. My point
is that if you can inspire those kids to feel like they're all in it
together, that they care about each other and should defend each other,
and let them know that it does take some effort to create the kind of
atmosphere they want - accepting and kind, for example, then just that
knowledge, that they have the right to expect it and that they can work
together to achieve it, can change the dynamics a lot.


> glena
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
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> "List Posting Policies" are provided in the files area of this group.
>
> Visit the Unschooling website and message boards:
> http://www.unschooling.com
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
National Home Education Network
<www.NHEN.org>
Serving the entire homeschooling community since 1999
through information, networking and public relations.

[email protected]

I just wanted to say the dialogue between Pam S. and Glena has been
really valuable imo. Thanks. JJ


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 5/7/2004 5:58:45 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
pamsoroosh@... writes:

<< My point
is that if you can inspire those kids to feel like they're all in it
together, that they care about each other and should defend each other,
and let them know that it does take some effort to create the kind of
atmosphere they want - accepting and kind, for example, then just that
knowledge, that they have the right to expect it and that they can work
together to achieve it, can change the dynamics a lot. >>



Maybe I am missing your point. I'd willing to examine that. What words
would you use in this few minutes of talking that would leave no one to feel like
they were being singled out for what had taken place (making others feel
badly) or that it was wrong or shaming them, but being positive.

Since you pointed out that this could apply even to adults who were having a
great time but possibly one or more were made to feel badly about something, I
think it would be very useful to actually hear the words that could be used
to help turn this around to a positive for everyone involved.

My kids don't really have that problem anymore but I've seen it with younger
kids around where my older kids have games and oftened wondered if there was
any good way to help the situation, without seeming intrusive or rude.

Maybe I thinking of other words entirely than what you are, I'd love to hear
what you might say in these circumstances. I think it would make it clearer
for me to understand what you are saying.

Thanks,
glena

pam sorooshian

On May 8, 2004, at 11:21 AM, rubyprincesstsg@... wrote:

> Maybe I am missing your point. I'd willing to examine that. What
> words
> would you use in this few minutes of talking that would leave no one
> to feel like
> they were being singled out for what had taken place (making others
> feel
> badly) or that it was wrong or shaming them, but being positive.

I would speak very warmly and lovingly and truly from my heart, knowing
these were children who WANT to play together and have a good time
together. I'd say that, first. "I'm so glad you've found each other and
are playing together. It is so great to have friends and time to play,
don't you think?" I'd maybe go on and say something like, "Don't you
just love it when you're playing together and everything just falls
into place and everybody is having a great time? I remember, when I was
a kid, what it was like to completely get involved in what we were
playing and it was so cool!! I'm pretty sure that every kid knows what
I'm talking about, right?"

"I am a little concerned, though, because there are things that can
mess up that really special kind of super fun playtime, so it is
important to be aware of those things and avoid them. I mean, that
magical wonderful kind of really GOOD playtime doesn't just happen, it
does take some work - kids have to be careful to be really accepting
and kind to each other, so everybody feels free to relax and really get
INTO their play, whatever it is they're doing. And kids need to know
that if they are being bugged or teased by something or by somebody,
that their friends will defend them and kind of take care of each
others' feelings. That's what friends do and that's why they have such
a good time together.

Anyway, I just had this little thing I felt like saying, because I
think kids' play is really special and important and I care about all
of you and hope you'll have the very BEST time playing together. You
can talk about it more together, if you feel like it, or just think
about it or whatever. "


So - not probably my exact words, because it would be more
natural-sounding, this sounds sort of stilted. But that's the best I
can do in a generic way to get the idea across.

-pam
National Home Education Network
<www.NHEN.org>
Serving the entire homeschooling community since 1999
through information, networking and public relations.

[email protected]

In a message dated 5/7/04 9:32:03 AM, rubyprincesstsg@... writes:

<< I've found there is a very fine line between causing more problems for my
children, by "talking" to the group about politeness or friendliness. It
definitely depends on the age group of the children. >>

It can depend on the tact and social skills of the mom too.

-=- If it gets to hateful, they know they can come home to you. They know
they
can walk away at any time. It's not like they are stuck in a classroom with
these children or even have to see them every day at school or on the bus.-=-

That's true.
But it would help if going to a mom is potentially worth more than just being
told "you can walk away from them."

-=-On the other hand if violence is involved, definitely takes some
intervention, either by strongly suggesting my own children not go there to
play or
somehow removing them from danger.-=-

Neither of those options will hand a clue to the bullying kid that his
behavior isn't acceptable.

-=-Kids have a way of working things out though. Almost always. -=-

In my experience, sometimes what seems worked out to parents (because the
complaining stopped) is one child just letting the other(s) roll over him and
keeping his feelings to himself because they weren't getting him the assistance
he wanted anyway.

-=- I know I've had days I wanted to just snatch a child up and
make them listen to me as I tell them how NOT to be to my children. -=-

There are lots of degrees between saying nothing and snatching them up and
trying to make them listen.

Sandra

[email protected]

In a message dated 5/7/04 3:43:22 PM, rubyprincesstsg@... writes:

<< School age children, more often than not, in my experience take any effort
of
that sort and feel it is interfering from a parent of a child, especially one
that have been picking on or teasing. >>

Perhaps they need to start getting over that, if they're schooled children,
and learn to deal with adults who aren't teachers.

And if they're not "school-kids" but homeschoolers, "school age" makes no
difference.

-=MAYBE, I think a LOT of words sometimes just get tuned out by
kids from sitting and just hearing words all day in a classroom. -=-

Depends one the words, the intent, the tone, the attitude of the speaker.

Throwing our kids in with kids who are used to abusive behavior among kids
and then not being there to help them out is like giving them school recess
without even the possibility of teachers on duty.

Sandra

Robyn Coburn

<<-=-On the other hand if violence is involved, definitely takes some
intervention, either by strongly suggesting my own children not go there to
play or
somehow removing them from danger.-=-

Neither of those options will hand a clue to the bullying kid that his
behavior isn't acceptable.>>

Time to relate my "Lord of the Flies" story from the park a couple of weeks
ago.

Jayn and I were at one of the parks we go to a lot. Another group of
children were playing there - 6 kids of ages about 5 to I'm guessing 9 or 10
with two possibly related mothers who were sitting together on the grass
periodically shouting out instructions (Don't do that...stop this...etc).
Another unrelated brother and sister came along shortly after. The boy
joined in the fluid running around games of the main group, while Jayn was
playing with the little girl for a while. There was some confusion over who
was going to use the slide for a while, but they sorted it out and all was
well for a while.

Then the little girl went to the swings with her grandmother, and Jayn
joined in with the other group.

About five minutes later the other mothers stood up and walked off to the
swings area, 50 feet away, behind where I was sitting on the grass.

I saw a ripple of little heads turning as the now group of 7 noticed that
their caretakers were suddenly inattentive - it was like watching dominoes
fall. Then, whoosh, I felt the atmosphere change. In the four seconds it
took me to get to my feet and start walking towards the equipment, every one
of the 7 had attacked Jayn with fistfuls of sand - viciously and
deliberately. She ran, astonishingly fast, up the equipment to the very top
of the big twisting slide - at the bottom of which lay in wait the biggest
boy with his handfuls of sand. Jayn called out "no don't" a bit as they
approached, and then I just bellowed - "Stop throwing sand at my daughter!"
Didn't know I had that volume in me actually. They all stopped and stared,
looking almost dazed - it was as if they hadn't realized she had an adult
(protector) with her. I then loudly said something about sand being painful
to eyes, and went back to sit down.

After a moment of general confusion, Jayn came down the slide - safely - and
ran to me. She asked about food, which we didn't have and then wanted to go
to eat. I noticed once we got home that she was not actually hungry, so I
think that was her way of leaving without losing face in her own mind. This
is the first time something scary like this has happened. It was weird and
disturbing - to me anyway; Jayn has not mentioned the event or wanted to
avoid that park. BTW the other parents evidently neither heard nor saw any
of it, being too busy enjoying a swing themselves. Jayn called out goodbye
to the little girl perfectly pleasantly, and it was not until later that she
was talking to me about throwing sand at people being wrong.

I'm not sure what I should have done differently, if anything. It seemed to
me that Jayn was in actual danger from a mob of bullies. The biggest boy had
seemed quite nice in the way he was interacting with the younger kids, while
his mother was watching him. It was really flabbergasting to see this happen
right in front of me.

Robyn L. Coburn


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