Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Digest Number 1633
Joseph Fuerst
Yes, I do. But when that child's lack of academics rolls over and has an
affect on her social life, what then? Children can be cruel, not even
realizing it. The only kids who *don't* point out these "academic
differences" are the cousins whose parents have been warned by me that this
is a hot button and to try to explain it to their kids to be kind ,etc.
Should a parent go to all perspective playmates and their parents and say,
"look.. my child can't do xxx so please don't bring these things up. No
board games that involve math, please... she can't keep up. Oh! and no
reading games... can't do that, either."
Hm?????? I'm not being sarcastic...
Sarah
Sarah:
I'm wondering whether her noticing that other children "know" things may
help her, at least in motivation. My dd is a late reader....she'll be 10
in a month. Can't read much at all...not even a Dr. Seuss. However, she
is a thoughtful, creative, intelligent person with excellent problem
solving skills.
I have never tried to protect her by asking anyone to play a non-reading
game or give her any other special treatment. I hope she reads....but I
keep my struggles to myself - or share them with this list or another
understanding person.
Food for thought...
Susan
affect on her social life, what then? Children can be cruel, not even
realizing it. The only kids who *don't* point out these "academic
differences" are the cousins whose parents have been warned by me that this
is a hot button and to try to explain it to their kids to be kind ,etc.
Should a parent go to all perspective playmates and their parents and say,
"look.. my child can't do xxx so please don't bring these things up. No
board games that involve math, please... she can't keep up. Oh! and no
reading games... can't do that, either."
Hm?????? I'm not being sarcastic...
Sarah
Sarah:
I'm wondering whether her noticing that other children "know" things may
help her, at least in motivation. My dd is a late reader....she'll be 10
in a month. Can't read much at all...not even a Dr. Seuss. However, she
is a thoughtful, creative, intelligent person with excellent problem
solving skills.
I have never tried to protect her by asking anyone to play a non-reading
game or give her any other special treatment. I hope she reads....but I
keep my struggles to myself - or share them with this list or another
understanding person.
Food for thought...
Susan
Joseph Fuerst
Yes, I know but then, do you *ever* step in and *do* something? I mean,
hind-sight is 20/20. If I had *known* that this child would have such
problems now because of not learning this stuff whenever she felt like it,
I'd have done something about it sooner. I would have pushed a little. But I
didn't ... I did the very unschooling "let her do it when she's ready..
leave her alone" thing and now, I'm not so sure it was the *right* thing to
do for *THIS* child.
~~~OR~~~~
will all of this experience lead her *to* her dreams of being a rock
star????????
Somebody *please* .... pass me the parenting manual!
Sarah
Sarah:
Of course, I responded before reading all the thread.....I feel for you
and can SO relate to your struggle due to my experience with my dd. I don't
know when or how to step in at times....and with mine being the oldest, I
have this horrible thought that somehow I make every parenting mistake with
her...which benefits her younger siblings, but goodness knows I sometimes
wish I could've learned on a robotic child or someone who wouldn't be harmed
by my mistakes!!
When I read your comments above, I couldn't help but say to you......you
have NO IDEA how she would be doing if you had intervened, pushed, etc.
Maybe you'd have only made her totally miserable ...and ruined her
self-image. Tell us/me about her ....what is great about her?
Also, have you read the book - can't think of the name - on seven types of
intelligence? Somebody here will know it - focus on her strengths, believe
in her....and let her know. And try to let go of *your* goals for her.
Wish you well,
Susan
hind-sight is 20/20. If I had *known* that this child would have such
problems now because of not learning this stuff whenever she felt like it,
I'd have done something about it sooner. I would have pushed a little. But I
didn't ... I did the very unschooling "let her do it when she's ready..
leave her alone" thing and now, I'm not so sure it was the *right* thing to
do for *THIS* child.
~~~OR~~~~
will all of this experience lead her *to* her dreams of being a rock
star????????
Somebody *please* .... pass me the parenting manual!
Sarah
Sarah:
Of course, I responded before reading all the thread.....I feel for you
and can SO relate to your struggle due to my experience with my dd. I don't
know when or how to step in at times....and with mine being the oldest, I
have this horrible thought that somehow I make every parenting mistake with
her...which benefits her younger siblings, but goodness knows I sometimes
wish I could've learned on a robotic child or someone who wouldn't be harmed
by my mistakes!!
When I read your comments above, I couldn't help but say to you......you
have NO IDEA how she would be doing if you had intervened, pushed, etc.
Maybe you'd have only made her totally miserable ...and ruined her
self-image. Tell us/me about her ....what is great about her?
Also, have you read the book - can't think of the name - on seven types of
intelligence? Somebody here will know it - focus on her strengths, believe
in her....and let her know. And try to let go of *your* goals for her.
Wish you well,
Susan
Sarah Carothers
Thank you, Susan. I think the book you're referring to is by Thomas Armstrong and yes, I read it a long time ago. Need to re-read it.
It's amazing. DD has no idea I've been discussing this on the list. Tonight, she came to me and said something about StarSearch and is it still in existence. I said yes. She said, well, Mom.. I've got to get ON that show! I'm just hoping my mouth didn't drop open in utter amazement! I responded that we should probably start out with a singing lesson or two at the local School of Arts (they offer community courses) and she seemed so proud that *she* could attend a "college" <g>.
Night and Day.... my children are like night and day and I love them both dearly!
Sarah
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
It's amazing. DD has no idea I've been discussing this on the list. Tonight, she came to me and said something about StarSearch and is it still in existence. I said yes. She said, well, Mom.. I've got to get ON that show! I'm just hoping my mouth didn't drop open in utter amazement! I responded that we should probably start out with a singing lesson or two at the local School of Arts (they offer community courses) and she seemed so proud that *she* could attend a "college" <g>.
Night and Day.... my children are like night and day and I love them both dearly!
Sarah
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Julie Stauffer
<<Look, my child can't do xxx so don't bring it up>>
Of course not. We just went through this with Adriane. She was teased at
her gymnastics class because 1)she is the only homeschooler and 2)she hadn't
memorized her times tables. She stood there and took it from these girls
because...well..that's Adriane. But she was upset when she got home. I
pointed out that she could learn those things very easily if she wanted to
but that it would take time and effort on her part. I pointed out all the
things she knew that these girls probably didn't (like the gestation period
of rabbits, breeds of dairy goats, etc.). I pointed out that no one knows
exactly all the things that someone else knows. I pointed out that everyone
gets teased about something (a viewing of my ears was always good for a
laugh). She opted to learn her multiplication tables.
Julie
Of course not. We just went through this with Adriane. She was teased at
her gymnastics class because 1)she is the only homeschooler and 2)she hadn't
memorized her times tables. She stood there and took it from these girls
because...well..that's Adriane. But she was upset when she got home. I
pointed out that she could learn those things very easily if she wanted to
but that it would take time and effort on her part. I pointed out all the
things she knew that these girls probably didn't (like the gestation period
of rabbits, breeds of dairy goats, etc.). I pointed out that no one knows
exactly all the things that someone else knows. I pointed out that everyone
gets teased about something (a viewing of my ears was always good for a
laugh). She opted to learn her multiplication tables.
Julie
Julie Stauffer
<<I'd have done something about it sooner. I'd have pushed a little>>
What would you have done? If working with her at 11 at her request in as
many different ways as you can think of isn't doing the trick, what would
you have done years ago that would have changed anything?
You post of your dd over-reacting to difficulty with a task. Have you read
any of Holt's writings on anxiety and learning difficulty? My 8yo son is a
highly anxious kid and has great difficulty focusing on reading without my
rubbing his back. Just a thought.
Julie
What would you have done? If working with her at 11 at her request in as
many different ways as you can think of isn't doing the trick, what would
you have done years ago that would have changed anything?
You post of your dd over-reacting to difficulty with a task. Have you read
any of Holt's writings on anxiety and learning difficulty? My 8yo son is a
highly anxious kid and has great difficulty focusing on reading without my
rubbing his back. Just a thought.
Julie
Julie Stauffer
<<we are free to figure out what our children need>>
Ack!!!!! Actually, unschooling means that our CHILDREN are free to figure
out what THEY need for THEMSELVES. Does that mean that a child will always
be able to verbalize a need? No. But it means that they are ALWAYS free to
accept or decline help.
Julie
Ack!!!!! Actually, unschooling means that our CHILDREN are free to figure
out what THEY need for THEMSELVES. Does that mean that a child will always
be able to verbalize a need? No. But it means that they are ALWAYS free to
accept or decline help.
Julie
Julie Stauffer
<<If she can't read at 11>>
Why? What is so magical about 11? Have you read Holt on Learning
Disabilities? And as someone who spent many years diagnosing LD, I have to
say I agree with him. Here we are on an unschooling board, discussing
forcing a child to see a therapist because they can't read at 11.
Oh Sandra, where art thou?
Julie
Why? What is so magical about 11? Have you read Holt on Learning
Disabilities? And as someone who spent many years diagnosing LD, I have to
say I agree with him. Here we are on an unschooling board, discussing
forcing a child to see a therapist because they can't read at 11.
Oh Sandra, where art thou?
Julie
Sarah Carothers
Julie,
Nobody said anything is magical about 11. That just happens to be the age of my child at the moment.
Yes, I've read Holt on learning disabilities and everything else I could read of his.
Yes, here we are on an unschooling board but NOBODY is forcing a child to see a therapist; it's just one of many options.
I don't need Sandra to give me her input; I've gotten quite a bit of positive feedback from other thoughtful, well-meaning, experienced people on this list. Lots of helpful ideas and suggestions and only a *few* who have offered empty-minded posts. Refreshing...
Sarah
Nobody said anything is magical about 11. That just happens to be the age of my child at the moment.
Yes, I've read Holt on learning disabilities and everything else I could read of his.
Yes, here we are on an unschooling board but NOBODY is forcing a child to see a therapist; it's just one of many options.
I don't need Sandra to give me her input; I've gotten quite a bit of positive feedback from other thoughtful, well-meaning, experienced people on this list. Lots of helpful ideas and suggestions and only a *few* who have offered empty-minded posts. Refreshing...
Sarah
----- Original Message -----
From: Julie Stauffer
To: [email protected]
Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2001 12:15 AM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Digest Number 1633
<<If she can't read at 11>>
Why? What is so magical about 11? Have you read Holt on Learning
Disabilities? And as someone who spent many years diagnosing LD, I have to
say I agree with him. Here we are on an unschooling board, discussing
forcing a child to see a therapist because they can't read at 11.
Oh Sandra, where art thou?
Julie
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Joy Sypher
<<If she can't read at 11>>
<Why? What is so magical about 11? Here we are on an unschooling board,
discussing
forcing a child to see a therapist because they can't read at 11.>
From personal experience, children can be 11, 12, or 13+ and still not
reading well and then BAM.. they get it. Something just clicks. Usually
teaching themselves to read because they want to. They want to read Nintendo
Power magazine, or Pokemon catds.
Why push and force a child to read, making them feel worthless, when if you
wait 6 months they take off on their own.
Patience is the biggest gift we can give our children.
Learn from others but go to your own school
Joy in NM
hs sahm of two, Michael and Kenna
*
*
_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
<Why? What is so magical about 11? Here we are on an unschooling board,
discussing
forcing a child to see a therapist because they can't read at 11.>
From personal experience, children can be 11, 12, or 13+ and still not
reading well and then BAM.. they get it. Something just clicks. Usually
teaching themselves to read because they want to. They want to read Nintendo
Power magazine, or Pokemon catds.
Why push and force a child to read, making them feel worthless, when if you
wait 6 months they take off on their own.
Patience is the biggest gift we can give our children.
Learn from others but go to your own school
Joy in NM
hs sahm of two, Michael and Kenna
*
*
_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
Actually it was an arbitrary number that I chose because that is the age of
the child we were discussing and there were some other issues that were
applicable to the discussion.
Elissa
-----Original Message-----
the child we were discussing and there were some other issues that were
applicable to the discussion.
Elissa
-----Original Message-----
><<If she can't read at 11>>
>
>Why? What is so magical about 11? Have you read Holt on Learning
>Disabilities? And as someone who spent many years diagnosing LD, I have to
>say I agree with him. Here we are on an unschooling board, discussing
>forcing a child to see a therapist because they can't read at 11.
>
>Oh Sandra, where art thou?
>
>Julie
>
>
>
>Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
>Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com
>
>To unsubscribe, set preferences, or read archives:
>http://www.egroups.com/group/Unschooling-dotcom
>
>Another great list sponsored by Home Education Magazine!
>http://www.home-ed-magazine.com
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
Kolleen
>Julie write:*Nods in agreement*
>Ack!!!!! Actually, unschooling means that our CHILDREN are free to figure
>out what THEY need for THEMSELVES. Does that mean that a child will always
>be able to verbalize a need? No. But it means that they are ALWAYS free to
>accept or decline help.
Taking that leap of faith in your child is the most precious gift you can
give them.
kolleen
[email protected]
On Wed, 28 Nov 2001 22:59:30 -0600 "Julie Stauffer" <jnjstau@...>
writes:
read because he believed he couldn't do it. My mom moved in next door
and he started going there regularly for the food. But the price of the
food was that she got to "teach" him. He's perfectly okay with that
arrangement. He gets attention and food and I run interference if she
gets too pushy about it to suit him.
Now, I realized something a few days ago . . . the reason she could help
him learn to read and I couldn't is because I have no patience for
repetition. She was a special ed. teacher for 14 years and taught second
grade before that. The 'read the same book three thousand times' thing
doesn't phase her a bit. The patience to listen to him sound out the
same word six times on the same page doesn't reside in me, but it does in
her.
So tell your daughter that the key to learning this stuff may just be
patience to do it again and again. Mind you , I didn't say make her sit
there and do it whether she wants to or not, just tell her that she
should be patient with herself and that you will be patient with her.
Bridget
Nollaig Shona -- S�och�in ar domhan,
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------
In three words I can sum up everything I've learned about life: it
goes on.
- Robert Frost
writes:
> <<I'd have done something about it sooner. I'd have pushed aOkay, here's one you might mention to your daughter. Wyndham couldn't
> little>>
>
> What would you have done? If working with her at 11 at her request
> in as
> many different ways as you can think of isn't doing the trick, what
> would
> you have done years ago that would have changed anything?
>
read because he believed he couldn't do it. My mom moved in next door
and he started going there regularly for the food. But the price of the
food was that she got to "teach" him. He's perfectly okay with that
arrangement. He gets attention and food and I run interference if she
gets too pushy about it to suit him.
Now, I realized something a few days ago . . . the reason she could help
him learn to read and I couldn't is because I have no patience for
repetition. She was a special ed. teacher for 14 years and taught second
grade before that. The 'read the same book three thousand times' thing
doesn't phase her a bit. The patience to listen to him sound out the
same word six times on the same page doesn't reside in me, but it does in
her.
So tell your daughter that the key to learning this stuff may just be
patience to do it again and again. Mind you , I didn't say make her sit
there and do it whether she wants to or not, just tell her that she
should be patient with herself and that you will be patient with her.
Bridget
Nollaig Shona -- S�och�in ar domhan,
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------
In three words I can sum up everything I've learned about life: it
goes on.
- Robert Frost
Elsa Haas
I think the author is Martin Gardner, or Gardener. Hes written several
books on that.
Elsa Haas
Also, have you read the book - can't think of the name - on seven types of
intelligence? Somebody here will know it - focus on her strengths, believe
in her....and let her know. And try to let go of *your* goals for her.
Wish you well,
Susan
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books on that.
Elsa Haas
Also, have you read the book - can't think of the name - on seven types of
intelligence? Somebody here will know it - focus on her strengths, believe
in her....and let her know. And try to let go of *your* goals for her.
Wish you well,
Susan
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ADVERTISEMENT
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72:HM/A=860488/R=0/*http://registrar.godaddy.com/default.asp?isc=yaho350>
Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com
To unsubscribe, set preferences, or read archives:
http://www.egroups.com/group/Unschooling-dotcom
Another great list sponsored by Home Education Magazine!
http://www.home-ed-magazine.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .
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