Re: [Unschooling-dotcom]Holt, Extremism and Change
Bridget E Coffman
I think you may have hit the nail firmly and squarely on the head with
that one!
Look at what has happened in the past when one charismatic, intelligent
person's words were taken to an extreme: Example - - Jesus. I'm pretty
sure Jesus did not intend for the Inquisition to occur when he taught his
thing. I'm sure given time (and a chat with my dh, I could come up with
lots of other example.
I can't say what would have happened had my girls not gone to school for
the years they did. I know I do totally support unschooling past say
third grade. I think there are lots of kids for whom it will work from
the beginning. I am also sure that there are kids for whom it won't work
- whether due to temprament or external factors. But I think if we truly
want to support unschooling, we need to be a little less judgemental
about those who aren't sure and just encourage them to let go a little at
a time.
And that brings up yet another thought, what happens when you suddenly
start unschooling in the manner that has been discussed here? How do you
get past a sudden and total change in a parenting style? It seems to me,
that might be destructive and not in the least helpful, where a gradual
change might be a good thing. Do you understand what I am trying to ask?
Having not ever tried to change styles abruptly, I was wondering what
happens when you do?
Bridget
On Tue, 27 Nov 2001 13:14:07 -0500 "Sarah Carothers"
<puddles@...> writes:
In three words I can sum up everything I've learned about life: it
goes on.
- Robert Frost
that one!
Look at what has happened in the past when one charismatic, intelligent
person's words were taken to an extreme: Example - - Jesus. I'm pretty
sure Jesus did not intend for the Inquisition to occur when he taught his
thing. I'm sure given time (and a chat with my dh, I could come up with
lots of other example.
I can't say what would have happened had my girls not gone to school for
the years they did. I know I do totally support unschooling past say
third grade. I think there are lots of kids for whom it will work from
the beginning. I am also sure that there are kids for whom it won't work
- whether due to temprament or external factors. But I think if we truly
want to support unschooling, we need to be a little less judgemental
about those who aren't sure and just encourage them to let go a little at
a time.
And that brings up yet another thought, what happens when you suddenly
start unschooling in the manner that has been discussed here? How do you
get past a sudden and total change in a parenting style? It seems to me,
that might be destructive and not in the least helpful, where a gradual
change might be a good thing. Do you understand what I am trying to ask?
Having not ever tried to change styles abruptly, I was wondering what
happens when you do?
Bridget
On Tue, 27 Nov 2001 13:14:07 -0500 "Sarah Carothers"
<puddles@...> writes:
> I wonder if^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> we're missing the boat sometimes by taking his words to the extreme.
> I wonder if that's what he really meant.
> I don't know.....
> Sarah
>
In three words I can sum up everything I've learned about life: it
goes on.
- Robert Frost
Sarah Carothers
Our change of parenting styles happened many years ago but I remember how difficult it was to go it alone. If it weren't for a best friend who was also at the same point in life, I doubt I would've had the courage to venture out like this.
We promised each other that we were no longer going to hound the kids to learn something and do "school" stuff. We would give it ONE year. (The way we saw it back then, if the kids did nothing the entire year, we'd only be behind one year and that didn't seem so horrible. OTOH, if the kids took back their own education, yahoo!!!!)Instead, we had to re-learn how to instill that self-motivation in our kids... a very difficult thing to do imo once you've screwed it up. But, by reading Gatto and Holt and for me especially Grace Lewellyns' books, we had the conviction to stick to our plan. We let the kids do as they pleased day in and day out (except the expected help around the house). Academically speaking, it was open to whatever they dreamed up. My dd watched tv for six solid months. I thought I'd croak. There were days I'd call my friend to console me when she'd be experiencing the same thing over at her house. It wasn't until six months later that our kids *finally* decided that there was more to life than television. Each one in each family took a different path. My dd asked for her old Miquan Math books to do on her own. Her dd started writing stories. Her son learned to read by asking for comic books. More and more, the tv was left off. And things took off from there.
I can only describe it as a leap into the unknown but the security in knowing that we could always turn back in a year and not be any worse off than we already were.
Sarah
ps.. we told the kids what we were doing (i.e. giving you back your educational choices) and they thought that was grand. What started out as "we don't have to do anything" turned into "we sure would like to know about xxx") <g>
success.
We promised each other that we were no longer going to hound the kids to learn something and do "school" stuff. We would give it ONE year. (The way we saw it back then, if the kids did nothing the entire year, we'd only be behind one year and that didn't seem so horrible. OTOH, if the kids took back their own education, yahoo!!!!)Instead, we had to re-learn how to instill that self-motivation in our kids... a very difficult thing to do imo once you've screwed it up. But, by reading Gatto and Holt and for me especially Grace Lewellyns' books, we had the conviction to stick to our plan. We let the kids do as they pleased day in and day out (except the expected help around the house). Academically speaking, it was open to whatever they dreamed up. My dd watched tv for six solid months. I thought I'd croak. There were days I'd call my friend to console me when she'd be experiencing the same thing over at her house. It wasn't until six months later that our kids *finally* decided that there was more to life than television. Each one in each family took a different path. My dd asked for her old Miquan Math books to do on her own. Her dd started writing stories. Her son learned to read by asking for comic books. More and more, the tv was left off. And things took off from there.
I can only describe it as a leap into the unknown but the security in knowing that we could always turn back in a year and not be any worse off than we already were.
Sarah
ps.. we told the kids what we were doing (i.e. giving you back your educational choices) and they thought that was grand. What started out as "we don't have to do anything" turned into "we sure would like to know about xxx") <g>
success.
----- Original Message -----
From: Bridget E Coffman snip<And that brings up yet another thought, what happens when you suddenly
start unschooling in the manner that has been discussed here? How do you
get past a sudden and total change in a parenting style? >
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Lynda
Depending on the age of the child, it could create a major insecurity issue.
Now, speaking of "extremism," my problem with labels and rules is that
somehow all these rules and labels about being "real" unschoolers somehow
seems the polar opposite of what unschooling is suppose to be all about!
IMNSHO <g> unschooling is all about the individual and if it is all about
the individual, then how can there be hard and fast always applies rules? I
thought that was why one got away from ps. Away from all the rules and
little boxes and pigeon holes and needs to conform.
Lynda
Now, speaking of "extremism," my problem with labels and rules is that
somehow all these rules and labels about being "real" unschoolers somehow
seems the polar opposite of what unschooling is suppose to be all about!
IMNSHO <g> unschooling is all about the individual and if it is all about
the individual, then how can there be hard and fast always applies rules? I
thought that was why one got away from ps. Away from all the rules and
little boxes and pigeon holes and needs to conform.
Lynda
----- Original Message -----
From: Bridget E Coffman <rumpleteasermom@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2001 12:53 PM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom]Holt, Extremism and Change
> I think you may have hit the nail firmly and squarely on the head with
> that one!
> Look at what has happened in the past when one charismatic, intelligent
> person's words were taken to an extreme: Example - - Jesus. I'm pretty
> sure Jesus did not intend for the Inquisition to occur when he taught his
> thing. I'm sure given time (and a chat with my dh, I could come up with
> lots of other example.
> I can't say what would have happened had my girls not gone to school for
> the years they did. I know I do totally support unschooling past say
> third grade. I think there are lots of kids for whom it will work from
> the beginning. I am also sure that there are kids for whom it won't work
> - whether due to temprament or external factors. But I think if we truly
> want to support unschooling, we need to be a little less judgemental
> about those who aren't sure and just encourage them to let go a little at
> a time.
> And that brings up yet another thought, what happens when you suddenly
> start unschooling in the manner that has been discussed here? How do you
> get past a sudden and total change in a parenting style? It seems to me,
> that might be destructive and not in the least helpful, where a gradual
> change might be a good thing. Do you understand what I am trying to ask?
> Having not ever tried to change styles abruptly, I was wondering what
> happens when you do?
>
> Bridget
>
>
> On Tue, 27 Nov 2001 13:14:07 -0500 "Sarah Carothers"
> <puddles@...> writes:
> > I wonder if
> > we're missing the boat sometimes by taking his words to the extreme.
> > I wonder if that's what he really meant.
> > I don't know.....
> > Sarah
> >
>
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> In three words I can sum up everything I've learned about life: it
> goes on.
> - Robert Frost
>
>
> Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
> Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com
>
> To unsubscribe, set preferences, or read archives:
> http://www.egroups.com/group/Unschooling-dotcom
>
> Another great list sponsored by Home Education Magazine!
> http://www.home-ed-magazine.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
Tia Leschke
>I thought it was all about the individual student making all the decisions
>
>IMNSHO <g> unschooling is all about the individual and if it is all about
>the individual, then how can there be hard and fast always applies rules? I
>thought that was why one got away from ps. Away from all the rules and
>little boxes and pigeon holes and needs to conform.
about their own education.
Tia
Tia Leschke leschke@...
On Vancouver Island
********************************************************************************************
It is the answers which separate us, the questions which unite us. - Janice
Levy
[email protected]
On Tue, 27 Nov 2001 18:44:38 -0800 "Lynda" <lurine@...> writes:
children are individuals, so I can make this one do this thing and make
the other one do this other thing." That's not unschooling, IMO.
Dar
________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.
> IMNSHO <g> unschooling is all about the individual and if it is allabout
> the individual, then how can there be hard and fast always appliesrules? I
> thought that was why one got away from ps. Away from all the rulesWhich individual? The parent or the child? I hear some people saying "My
> and little boxes and pigeon holes and needs to conform.
children are individuals, so I can make this one do this thing and make
the other one do this other thing." That's not unschooling, IMO.
Dar
________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.
meghan anderson
<<<< Message: 8
Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 16:34:05 -0500
From: "Sarah Carothers" <puddles@...>
Subject: Re: Holt, Extremism and Change
Our change of parenting styles happened many years ago
but I remember how difficult it was to go it alone. If
it weren't for a best friend who was also at the same
point in life, I doubt I would've had the courage to
venture out like this. We promised each other that we
were no longer going to hound the kids to learn
something and do "school" stuff. We would give it ONE
year. (The way we saw it back then, if the kids did
nothing the entire year, we'd only be behind one year
and that didn't seem so horrible. OTOH, if the kids
took back their own education, yahoo!!!!)Instead, we
had to re-learn how to instill that self-motivation in
our kids... a very
difficult thing to do imo once you've screwed it up.
But, by reading Gatto and Holt and for me especially
Grace Lewellyns' books, we had the
conviction to stick to our plan. We let the kids do as
they pleased day in and day out (except the expected
help around the house). Academically
speaking, it was open to whatever they dreamed up. My
dd watched tv for six solid months. I thought I'd
croak. There were days I'd call my friend to
console me when she'd be experiencing the same thing
over at her house. It wasn't until six months later
that our kids *finally* decided that there was more to
life than television. Each one in each family took a
different path. My dd asked for her old Miquan Math
books to do on her own. Her dd started writing
stories. Her son learned to read by asking for comic
books. More and more, the tv was left off. And things
took off from there. I can only describe it as a leap
into the unknown but the security in knowing that we
could always turn back in a year and not be any worse
off than we already were.
Sarah
ps.. we told the kids what we were doing (i.e. giving
you back your
educational choices) and they thought that was grand.
What started out as
"we don't have to do anything" turned into "we sure
would like to know
about xxx") <g>
success. >>>>
I love reading stories of success like this! It
inspires and uplifts me! Thanks!
Meghan
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just $8.95/month.
http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info1
Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 16:34:05 -0500
From: "Sarah Carothers" <puddles@...>
Subject: Re: Holt, Extremism and Change
Our change of parenting styles happened many years ago
but I remember how difficult it was to go it alone. If
it weren't for a best friend who was also at the same
point in life, I doubt I would've had the courage to
venture out like this. We promised each other that we
were no longer going to hound the kids to learn
something and do "school" stuff. We would give it ONE
year. (The way we saw it back then, if the kids did
nothing the entire year, we'd only be behind one year
and that didn't seem so horrible. OTOH, if the kids
took back their own education, yahoo!!!!)Instead, we
had to re-learn how to instill that self-motivation in
our kids... a very
difficult thing to do imo once you've screwed it up.
But, by reading Gatto and Holt and for me especially
Grace Lewellyns' books, we had the
conviction to stick to our plan. We let the kids do as
they pleased day in and day out (except the expected
help around the house). Academically
speaking, it was open to whatever they dreamed up. My
dd watched tv for six solid months. I thought I'd
croak. There were days I'd call my friend to
console me when she'd be experiencing the same thing
over at her house. It wasn't until six months later
that our kids *finally* decided that there was more to
life than television. Each one in each family took a
different path. My dd asked for her old Miquan Math
books to do on her own. Her dd started writing
stories. Her son learned to read by asking for comic
books. More and more, the tv was left off. And things
took off from there. I can only describe it as a leap
into the unknown but the security in knowing that we
could always turn back in a year and not be any worse
off than we already were.
Sarah
ps.. we told the kids what we were doing (i.e. giving
you back your
educational choices) and they thought that was grand.
What started out as
"we don't have to do anything" turned into "we sure
would like to know
about xxx") <g>
success. >>>>
I love reading stories of success like this! It
inspires and uplifts me! Thanks!
Meghan
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just $8.95/month.
http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info1
Sarah Carothers
Dar wrote:
<Which individual? The parent or the child? I hear some people saying "My
children are individuals, so I can make this one do this thing and make
the other one do this other thing." That's not unschooling, IMO.
Dar
Sarah... must've missed that post
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
<Which individual? The parent or the child? I hear some people saying "My
children are individuals, so I can make this one do this thing and make
the other one do this other thing." That's not unschooling, IMO.
Dar
>Who is saying *that*?
Sarah... must've missed that post
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sarah Carothers
You're welcome, Meghan. The problem is, though... it doesn't always work for *every* child (as in my child #2 and my friend's child #3). :(
Lynda pointed out in a previous post about unschooling being about the individual. That's 100% true and each one will take the same situation and respond differently. That's where our parenting skills really need to be tuned into our kids so we can *know* that what worked for this one won't necessarily work for the next one.
Unschooling can't hold a rigid definition because each kid will need to be unschooled in variations on the same theme... to give the child ownership of his education. You, the parent, has to know when complete freedom and "hands off" works and when a child needs more guidance, whatever form that may take while still letting it be the child's choice to learn something.
Sarah
I love reading stories of success like this! It
inspires and uplifts me! Thanks!
Meghan
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Lynda pointed out in a previous post about unschooling being about the individual. That's 100% true and each one will take the same situation and respond differently. That's where our parenting skills really need to be tuned into our kids so we can *know* that what worked for this one won't necessarily work for the next one.
Unschooling can't hold a rigid definition because each kid will need to be unschooled in variations on the same theme... to give the child ownership of his education. You, the parent, has to know when complete freedom and "hands off" works and when a child needs more guidance, whatever form that may take while still letting it be the child's choice to learn something.
Sarah
I love reading stories of success like this! It
inspires and uplifts me! Thanks!
Meghan
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Fetteroll
on 11/27/01 3:53 PM, Bridget E Coffman at rumpleteasermom@... wrote:
If we see unschooling as the way we learned to communicate in our native
language then if a mother needs to modify how she views life and interacts
with a particular child in order to meet his needs, does that call natural
learning into question?
Unschooling is how we've learned from the beginning of our lives. It was
just John Holt's way of saying learning doesn't change at 6 years old. We
can continue to do it the way we've always done it. It's us adults that need
to see things in new ways, thus a specific name for what the kids are doing
at school age. The kids don't change. It's we adults who need to see things
differently.
us. Some may get positive feedback from gentle persuasion. Others may get
positive feedback from being blunt. If some perceive that blunt style as
judgemental that doesn't make it any less effective for those who need
bluntness. Different people need different styles. So I don't think "we"
should be limited to one technique.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> I am also sure that there are kids for whom it won't workHow would you define "won't work" and why are you sure?
> - whether due to temprament or external factors.
If we see unschooling as the way we learned to communicate in our native
language then if a mother needs to modify how she views life and interacts
with a particular child in order to meet his needs, does that call natural
learning into question?
Unschooling is how we've learned from the beginning of our lives. It was
just John Holt's way of saying learning doesn't change at 6 years old. We
can continue to do it the way we've always done it. It's us adults that need
to see things in new ways, thus a specific name for what the kids are doing
at school age. The kids don't change. It's we adults who need to see things
differently.
> But I think if we trulyAnd I think we each need to find what style of encouragement works best for
> want to support unschooling, we need to be a little less judgemental
> about those who aren't sure and just encourage them to let go a little at
> a time.
us. Some may get positive feedback from gentle persuasion. Others may get
positive feedback from being blunt. If some perceive that blunt style as
judgemental that doesn't make it any less effective for those who need
bluntness. Different people need different styles. So I don't think "we"
should be limited to one technique.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 11/29/2001 8:05:06 AM Eastern Standard Time,
fetteroll@... writes:
learn this one big time in my own house. . . over and over again. One day,
I may even get it. :) THanks for the reminder.
lovemary
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
fetteroll@... writes:
> Different people need different styles. So I don't think "we"There you go Joyce. . . as usual, pearls of wisdom from you. I am having to
> should be limited to one technique.
>
> Joyce
>
learn this one big time in my own house. . . over and over again. One day,
I may even get it. :) THanks for the reminder.
lovemary
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
There are children out there with medical problems. There are children
with learning disabilities. All of them will learn to cope with life one
way or another. There are some who left on there own will learn to cope
by becoming violent. If we lived in a utopia, this would not happen.
But guess what? We are a long way form Utopia. It is our job as parents
to give our children what they need to become independent adults.
Here's an example of an external factor, my SIL lives in a nasty
neighborhood, hangs out in bars and has had 2 kids by different men but
never been married. Should I encourage her to pull her kids from school
and unschool them? Knowing that the education they get will probably
include drugs and prostitution and not much opportunity for anything
else. Unschooling would be a very bad thing for them.
Temperament example: Left entirely to his own my son would not learn to
read because he believed he could not read. With a little help from my
mom, that you and Sandra and that group would consider anathema to
unschooling, he has learned to read quite well. Sure, we sort of bribed
him to get him started, but he is happy that we did and says so. He was
frustrated and frequently upset before we gave him the push. Should we
have allowed him to be frustrated longer in the hopes he would figure it
out alone?
On the other hand, pure unschooling is working very well for my older
two. They do absolutely nothing they don't want to do academically and
very little they don't want to be doing regarding keeping house.
The biggest problem in our school system today is the growing idea that
every child should do everything the same way at the same time. The
biggest problem I see here is that there are those who seem to assume we
all face the same challenge and that the same things and the same system
will work with all of our children.
Bridget
Nollaig Shona -- S�och�in ar domhan,
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------
In three words I can sum up everything I've learned about life: it
goes on.
- Robert Frost
On Thu, 29 Nov 2001 08:08:46 -0500 Fetteroll <fetteroll@...>
writes:
with learning disabilities. All of them will learn to cope with life one
way or another. There are some who left on there own will learn to cope
by becoming violent. If we lived in a utopia, this would not happen.
But guess what? We are a long way form Utopia. It is our job as parents
to give our children what they need to become independent adults.
Here's an example of an external factor, my SIL lives in a nasty
neighborhood, hangs out in bars and has had 2 kids by different men but
never been married. Should I encourage her to pull her kids from school
and unschool them? Knowing that the education they get will probably
include drugs and prostitution and not much opportunity for anything
else. Unschooling would be a very bad thing for them.
Temperament example: Left entirely to his own my son would not learn to
read because he believed he could not read. With a little help from my
mom, that you and Sandra and that group would consider anathema to
unschooling, he has learned to read quite well. Sure, we sort of bribed
him to get him started, but he is happy that we did and says so. He was
frustrated and frequently upset before we gave him the push. Should we
have allowed him to be frustrated longer in the hopes he would figure it
out alone?
On the other hand, pure unschooling is working very well for my older
two. They do absolutely nothing they don't want to do academically and
very little they don't want to be doing regarding keeping house.
The biggest problem in our school system today is the growing idea that
every child should do everything the same way at the same time. The
biggest problem I see here is that there are those who seem to assume we
all face the same challenge and that the same things and the same system
will work with all of our children.
Bridget
Nollaig Shona -- S�och�in ar domhan,
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------
In three words I can sum up everything I've learned about life: it
goes on.
- Robert Frost
On Thu, 29 Nov 2001 08:08:46 -0500 Fetteroll <fetteroll@...>
writes:
> on 11/27/01 3:53 PM, Bridget E Coffman at rumpleteasermom@...
> wrote:
>
> > I am also sure that there are kids for whom it won't work
> > - whether due to temprament or external factors.
>
> How would you define "won't work" and why are you sure?
>
Sarah Carothers
Very well put, Bridget.
Lots of dialog has resulted from my dd's situation and I thank all who
offered ideas and food for thought. I've got plenty to mull over now so if
ya'll wish to continue the discussion, fine... I'll keep reading. But I
worry that I'll totally saturate the list with *my* problems so I'm going to
refrain from further posting about our situation as I feel I have adequately
described it in *great* detail. Again, I thank all who have helped and
offered advice and will now just sit back and think things over.
Sarah
(not ingoring responses... just giving others a chance to write now)
Lots of dialog has resulted from my dd's situation and I thank all who
offered ideas and food for thought. I've got plenty to mull over now so if
ya'll wish to continue the discussion, fine... I'll keep reading. But I
worry that I'll totally saturate the list with *my* problems so I'm going to
refrain from further posting about our situation as I feel I have adequately
described it in *great* detail. Again, I thank all who have helped and
offered advice and will now just sit back and think things over.
Sarah
(not ingoring responses... just giving others a chance to write now)
----- Original Message -----
From: <rumpleteasermom@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2001 9:50 AM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom]Holt, Extremism and Change
> There are children out there with medical problems. There are children
> with learning disabilities. All of them will learn to cope with life one
> way or another. There are some who left on there own will learn to cope
> by becoming violent. If we lived in a utopia, this would not happen.
> But guess what? We are a long way form Utopia. It is our job as parents
> to give our children what they need to become independent adults.
> Here's an example of an external factor, my SIL lives in a nasty
> neighborhood, hangs out in bars and has had 2 kids by different men but
> never been married. Should I encourage her to pull her kids from school
> and unschool them? Knowing that the education they get will probably
> include drugs and prostitution and not much opportunity for anything
> else. Unschooling would be a very bad thing for them.
> Temperament example: Left entirely to his own my son would not learn to
> read because he believed he could not read. With a little help from my
> mom, that you and Sandra and that group would consider anathema to
> unschooling, he has learned to read quite well. Sure, we sort of bribed
> him to get him started, but he is happy that we did and says so. He was
> frustrated and frequently upset before we gave him the push. Should we
> have allowed him to be frustrated longer in the hopes he would figure it
> out alone?
> On the other hand, pure unschooling is working very well for my older
> two. They do absolutely nothing they don't want to do academically and
> very little they don't want to be doing regarding keeping house.
> The biggest problem in our school system today is the growing idea that
> every child should do everything the same way at the same time. The
> biggest problem I see here is that there are those who seem to assume we
> all face the same challenge and that the same things and the same system
> will work with all of our children.
>
>
> Bridget
> Nollaig Shona -- Síocháin ar domhan,
[email protected]
On Wed, 28 Nov 2001 11:05:20 -0500 "Sarah Carothers"
<puddles@...> writes:
"You, the parent, has to know when complete freedom and "hands off" works
and when a child needs more guidance, whatever form that may take while
still letting it be the child's choice to learn something. " How is
"needs more guidance" different from making a kid do something? If it's
not "complete freedom" as far as learning is concerned, it's not
unschooling.
Dar
________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.
<puddles@...> writes:
>"My
> Dar wrote:
> <Which individual? The parent or the child? I hear some people saying
> children are individuals, so I can make this one do this thing andWell, three posts below this one (on my time-delayed email) you write:
> make the other one do this other thing." That's not unschooling, IMO.
>
> Dar
> >
> Who is saying *that*?
> Sarah... must've missed that post
"You, the parent, has to know when complete freedom and "hands off" works
and when a child needs more guidance, whatever form that may take while
still letting it be the child's choice to learn something. " How is
"needs more guidance" different from making a kid do something? If it's
not "complete freedom" as far as learning is concerned, it's not
unschooling.
Dar
________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.
Honored Babies
Joyce,
Unschooling is how we've learned from the beginning of our lives. It was
just John Holt's way of saying learning doesn't change at 6 years old. We
can continue to do it the way we've always done it. It's us adults that need
to see things in new ways, thus a specific name for what the kids are doing
at school age. The kids don't change. It's we adults who need to see things
differently.
Oh, I agree so much. In fact, I explain this to people who inquire about
un"school"ing (I have moved to use the term "natural learning"). I mean,
geez, I didn't have to "teach" Alexandria to walk, talk, use the toilet,
etc. She did it, and I was there to support her. She *wanted* to do those
things; why do most believe that children won't want to learn to do other
things, too?
~Paula, who hasn't introduced herself yet.
Unschooling is how we've learned from the beginning of our lives. It was
just John Holt's way of saying learning doesn't change at 6 years old. We
can continue to do it the way we've always done it. It's us adults that need
to see things in new ways, thus a specific name for what the kids are doing
at school age. The kids don't change. It's we adults who need to see things
differently.
Oh, I agree so much. In fact, I explain this to people who inquire about
un"school"ing (I have moved to use the term "natural learning"). I mean,
geez, I didn't have to "teach" Alexandria to walk, talk, use the toilet,
etc. She did it, and I was there to support her. She *wanted* to do those
things; why do most believe that children won't want to learn to do other
things, too?
~Paula, who hasn't introduced herself yet.