advice?
Shari Watson
Hi everyone,
I was wondering if maybe someone out there had advice regarding helping my 13 yr old brother relax and let learning happen.
I have custody of my two brothers, Gabe, 13, and Matt, 11. While they have both been homeschooled for the last couple of years, this is our first time attempting unschooling. It is a learning process for all of us.
Matt is starting to realize that everything he does is a learning activity, and is learning German, because he wants to, and reading books of his choice. He is having a blast with the pressure to pass to the next grade level removed.
Gabe comes to me with tears in his eyes, saying, "I feel like I'm not DOING anything" and "What would an eight grader be learning right now?" We have provided him with things he shows interest in, and he IS reading books that he loves. He is concerned he won't be able to get into college. He is worried that if he does manage to get in, that he will be unable to keep up intellectually with everyone else. He has seen the local public school curriculum, and realizes that he is way ahead of where they say he should be. (We live in a state that does not require testing.) He remembers public school vividly, and does NOT want to go back, because he felt bored and unchallenged all the time.
Are there any books we could read that might ease his fears? What else can I do to help him feel ok about the learning he IS doing? I have never been a parent before, and I'm just learning, too! :-)
Any advice or suggestions would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Shari
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I was wondering if maybe someone out there had advice regarding helping my 13 yr old brother relax and let learning happen.
I have custody of my two brothers, Gabe, 13, and Matt, 11. While they have both been homeschooled for the last couple of years, this is our first time attempting unschooling. It is a learning process for all of us.
Matt is starting to realize that everything he does is a learning activity, and is learning German, because he wants to, and reading books of his choice. He is having a blast with the pressure to pass to the next grade level removed.
Gabe comes to me with tears in his eyes, saying, "I feel like I'm not DOING anything" and "What would an eight grader be learning right now?" We have provided him with things he shows interest in, and he IS reading books that he loves. He is concerned he won't be able to get into college. He is worried that if he does manage to get in, that he will be unable to keep up intellectually with everyone else. He has seen the local public school curriculum, and realizes that he is way ahead of where they say he should be. (We live in a state that does not require testing.) He remembers public school vividly, and does NOT want to go back, because he felt bored and unchallenged all the time.
Are there any books we could read that might ease his fears? What else can I do to help him feel ok about the learning he IS doing? I have never been a parent before, and I'm just learning, too! :-)
Any advice or suggestions would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Shari
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Bridget E Coffman
Hi Shari,
I don't have much in the way of specific advice but if he wouldlike to
talk to others his own age in a similar schooling environment, you could
direct him to EclecticTeen @ Yahoo. It's my daughters group. Pretty
small and quiet but he could at least meet others.
As for advice, all I can say is that he could probably start college
today and be academically advanced. I've been there as recently as five
years ago and I am astounded at what is comingout of our public high
schools.
Bridget
On Sat, 24 Nov 2001 11:15:00 -0600 "Shari Watson" <swatson1@...>
writes:
In three words I can sum up everything I've learned about life: it
goes on.
- Robert Frost
I don't have much in the way of specific advice but if he wouldlike to
talk to others his own age in a similar schooling environment, you could
direct him to EclecticTeen @ Yahoo. It's my daughters group. Pretty
small and quiet but he could at least meet others.
As for advice, all I can say is that he could probably start college
today and be academically advanced. I've been there as recently as five
years ago and I am astounded at what is comingout of our public high
schools.
Bridget
On Sat, 24 Nov 2001 11:15:00 -0600 "Shari Watson" <swatson1@...>
writes:
> Hi everyone,^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> I was wondering if maybe someone out there had advice regarding
> helping my 13 yr old brother relax and let learning happen.
> I have custody of my two brothers, Gabe, 13, and Matt, 11. While
> they have both been homeschooled for the last couple of years, this
> is our first time attempting unschooling. It is a learning process
> for all of us.
In three words I can sum up everything I've learned about life: it
goes on.
- Robert Frost
Kolleen
>Shari (Matt) writes:I'm not sure if these website links have passed here or not, they *may*
>"I feel like I'm not DOING anything" and "What would an eight grader be
>learning right now?"
be good resources for your brother. We can only suggest and possibly
something works =)
It sure sounds like a challenge to raise two brothers... kudos to you.
For the answer to the second question:
http://www2.worldbook.com/parents/course_study_index.asp
The first question is so subjective :/
I think he *might* find something interesting in some of Daniel
Greenburg's (sp) work at:
http://www.sudval.org
They post some free text of his, and of course, sell his books.
Depending on your financial situation, you might want to also let him
know he has a choice of purchasing a cirriculum from one of the
homeschooling resource schools. I've seen them range from $150 - $600. I
suppose it depends on how much paperwork and support for state regs one
needs?!
Good luck and let us know how it goes!
Warm Regards,
kolleen
Fetteroll
It will take him a while to feel comfortable learning by using.
Grace Llewellyn's The Teenage Liberation Handbook: How to Quit School and
Get a Real Life and Education (1998 edition) should be helpful.
Also if he didn't think of college looming in 4 years, it would help. He
*can* wait. In fact colleges love older students because they're more
focused, generally have a better idea what they want from college rather
than as just the next step you're supposed to do after high school.
Help him think of this time not as time to prepare for college and
adulthood, but as time to explore who he is and what he loves. Then college
isn't the next step of molding, it isn't just harder and more advanced high
school. It can be one of many ways of exploring things that interest him.
(Apprenticeships, volunteer work, independent study, job, and so on are some
other options.)
He could also take community college courses at some point (if your state
allows it). Just out of interest. It might ease his mind about being able to
do college work if he's already started.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Grace Llewellyn's The Teenage Liberation Handbook: How to Quit School and
Get a Real Life and Education (1998 edition) should be helpful.
Also if he didn't think of college looming in 4 years, it would help. He
*can* wait. In fact colleges love older students because they're more
focused, generally have a better idea what they want from college rather
than as just the next step you're supposed to do after high school.
Help him think of this time not as time to prepare for college and
adulthood, but as time to explore who he is and what he loves. Then college
isn't the next step of molding, it isn't just harder and more advanced high
school. It can be one of many ways of exploring things that interest him.
(Apprenticeships, volunteer work, independent study, job, and so on are some
other options.)
He could also take community college courses at some point (if your state
allows it). Just out of interest. It might ease his mind about being able to
do college work if he's already started.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Elsa Haas
Hi, Shari!
Someone else has already mentioned Grace Llewellyns The Teenage Liberation
Handbook. Be sure to get the revised edition though I havent seen it, I
ve heard the changes are important. Id also recommend her second book, Real
Lives, in which unschooling teenagers describe how they spend their time.
She also organizes a summer Not Back to School Camp and another residential
unprogram that runs during the school year. Theres a website do a
search on her name.
I agree (with whoever made this comment) that it might be helpful to point
out to Gabe that college is a place he might want to go sometime, but not
necessarily, and that theres nothing magical about the age of 18. There was
an article in the New York Times some months back about the fact that many
colleges, including some of the most selective ones, now prefer applicants
who have been out in the world doing something for a year or two, over those
fresh out of high school. Ill try to find a link to that article for you.
One book that questions the need for college (or college right away) is
The Question Is College. Another book, The Sheepskin Psychosis (which may be
out of print), gets deeply into the myths about college tuition being a good
investment in purely financial terms. A book that might get Gabe thinking
about the fact that even adults with degrees are not necessarily satisfied
with their lives is Michael Foglers Unjobbing. If Gabe is concerned about
making a living, have him try You Money Or Your Life, by Joe (?) Dominguez.
The voluntary simplicity and frugality movements (which have websites,
and meetings all over the country) are good places to look for information
on living well on less, and thus being able to work at what you love. Check
out the Tightwad Gazette books by Amy Dacyczyn (at least three volumes).
. .
But if Gabe wont be satisfied with anything less than an assurance that he
will be able to get into college if he does decide he wants to, there are
several books on how homeschoolers get in. One is Judy Gelners College
Admissions: A Guide for Homeschoolers. Another is And What About College?,
by David and Micki Colfax. (Three of the Colfax kids got into Harvard the
parents have also written two other books, Homeschooling for Excellence and
Hard Times in Paradise.) Holt Associates has a pamphlet titled Life After
Homeschooling, excerpted from Growing Without Schooling.
It sounds like Gabe is already critical of the school system. Build on
this - suggest he read John Holts books, beginning either with How Children
Fail (revised edition only!) or with Instead Of Education. John had a very
straightforward, accessible style, and wrote about what really goes on in
the classroom every day (and in the latter book, about what can go on
outside of it).
Some of the materials Im suggesting can be found by going to the Holt
Associates website at http://www.holt/gws.com . You may have to link from
there to F.U.N. Books, which is the company that recently bought out most of
the Holt Associates book business. (If you have trouble finding any of the
things Im recommending, please let me know because I recommend them all the
time.)
Im just realizing that the most useful reference I can probably give you is
to the Grown Homeschoolers category in the 2002 Directory, which is
contained in the last issue of the (very recently defunct) magazine, Growing
Without Schooling. Ive just looked at it there are about seventy names
listed, all of grown homeschoolers who are now in college, working, or
otherwise out in the world, and all with contact information and a brief
description of what theyre doing. They all agreed to be listed, in order to
answer questions and give advice. Again, go to the Holt Associates website
to order it.
I love to brainstorm on possibilities for teens who are thinking about
leaving school. Unfortunately, the last two times I did this, nothing came
of it, as the kids were already 16, and in the end too worried about their
futures to make any big changes, rather than just going along with it for a
couple more years. One had parental support and the other didnt. With your
support, and at his relatively young age, theres absolutely no doubt in my
mind that if Gabe focuses on doing interesting things in the here and now,
the future will largely take care of itself.
But you might ask him, since he seems very upset about it, just exactly what
he envisions when he thinks about what might happen to him if he didnt get
into college. Does he picture himself on the streets, begging? Or just stuck
in a boring or low-wage job? Or unable to hold his own in social situations
(marry the right girl, etc.)? Does the fact that you have custody, rather
than his parents, figure into it? Encourage him to be as specific as he can
in talking to you about his fears.
He may be looking around at adults he knows and not wanting to end up like
them. Which adults are these? Maybe some of these unhappy or unfortunate
people actually have college degrees - and maybe the ones he assume do,
actually dont. Maybe Gabe is worried about you the work you do or dont
do, how much you earn, whether you are happy or whether you can support him
and his brother. Its important to speak honestly about this.
People tend to assume I have a college degree, but I dont (I left after
three years to work for Holt Associates, John Holts organization). Among
other things, Ive translated four books for major art book publishers;
proofread the Spanish in a fifth book; worked as an interpreter in the court
system in Spain; published a front-page article in the Education section of
what was then Spains largest newspaper (El Pais); been on TV and radio in
Spain (promoting unschooling); taught English to adults for nine years in
Spain; and been asked to interview for a job teaching Spanish in the grade
school I went to as a kid in NY (I turned this down, of course!) Ive also
been a naturalist-guide in a New York State Park (leading school groups
around, for one thing) and have taught workshops in solar oven construction
at that Park and at a City Park.
Before all this, I traveled widely and had a lot of interesting experiences
involving alternative play therapy for kids under stress (London), organic
farming (Maine), rock climbing (France and Spain), spelunking (France), and
so on. Some of these things, I did while a teenager, when I should have
been in school, or as a young adult, when I should have been finishing up
my degree.
The educational chronology is this: two years of normal high school; one
year with the Audubon Expedition Institute, which is a traveling school;
one year on my own at 16, though with occasional financial support from my
parents, doing weird things like the organic farming apprenticeship and
being a mothers helper, etc.; off to college at 17 through early
admissions. After the three years of college, I left and have hardly looked
back. (Im thirty-five now, and busy with our two-year-old son and writing a
book on attachment parenting.)
I have known poverty, but it has never been because of the lack of a degree.
It sounds like Gabe might be at the age to do local volunteer work, if not
to spend long periods away from home. This will give him a lot more
confidence than completing any distance learning course (though if he did
want to consider enrolling somewhere, Id recommend Clonlaras extremely
flexible program, which can include as much volunteer work for grade
school/high school credit as you want).
If youre in this area (New York City), Id be happy to talk with Gabe or
with you. If youre not, why dont you post your general location? With
several hundred people on this list, theres likely to be someone in your
area who could help. Actually, it just so happens that I have a couple free
phone cards I wouldnt mind using up, so if he wants to talk I could call
him, or I could call you. Sometimes it helps to have a real conversation,
not just an on-screen one. So email me your phone number and Ill call.
You indicated that Gabe is interested in things, and is reading books he
loves. What things and books are these (if he doesnt mind your posting
this)? And what are the types of things hes definitely NOT interested in?
By thirteen a lot of kids have general leanings (hands-on, literary,
artistic, natural science, etc.), if not defined interests. I wouldnt
pressure him to specialize, but it helps to know a little more. Why dont
you hand over the messages youve gotten so far to Gabe and ask him whether
he wants to post his own? There is nothing that says this has to be an
adults-only forum.
If you send me a mailing address, I can send you a copy of an article I
wrote for a nationwide teaching magazine when I was 12, titled A Student
Speaks Out (I was paid $200 for it maybe this fact would inspire him to do
some writing of his own). Im much more radical now than I was then, of
course, but it could give Gabe another kids perspective.
Elsa Haas
ElsaHaas@...
-----Original Message-----
From: Shari Watson [mailto:swatson1@...]
Sent: Saturday, November 24, 2001 12:15 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] advice?
Hi everyone,
I was wondering if maybe someone out there had advice regarding helping my
13 yr old brother relax and let learning happen.
I have custody of my two brothers, Gabe, 13, and Matt, 11. While they have
both been homeschooled for the last couple of years, this is our first time
attempting unschooling. It is a learning process for all of us.
Matt is starting to realize that everything he does is a learning activity,
and is learning German, because he wants to, and reading books of his
choice. He is having a blast with the pressure to pass to the next grade
level removed.
Gabe comes to me with tears in his eyes, saying, "I feel like I'm not DOING
anything" and "What would an eight grader be learning right now?" We have
provided him with things he shows interest in, and he IS reading books that
he loves. He is concerned he won't be able to get into college. He is
worried that if he does manage to get in, that he will be unable to keep up
intellectually with everyone else. He has seen the local public school
curriculum, and realizes that he is way ahead of where they say he should
be. (We live in a state that does not require testing.) He remembers public
school vividly, and does NOT want to go back, because he felt bored and
unchallenged all the time.
Are there any books we could read that might ease his fears? What else can I
do to help him feel ok about the learning he IS doing? I have never been a
parent before, and I'm just learning, too! :-)
Any advice or suggestions would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Shari
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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Someone else has already mentioned Grace Llewellyns The Teenage Liberation
Handbook. Be sure to get the revised edition though I havent seen it, I
ve heard the changes are important. Id also recommend her second book, Real
Lives, in which unschooling teenagers describe how they spend their time.
She also organizes a summer Not Back to School Camp and another residential
unprogram that runs during the school year. Theres a website do a
search on her name.
I agree (with whoever made this comment) that it might be helpful to point
out to Gabe that college is a place he might want to go sometime, but not
necessarily, and that theres nothing magical about the age of 18. There was
an article in the New York Times some months back about the fact that many
colleges, including some of the most selective ones, now prefer applicants
who have been out in the world doing something for a year or two, over those
fresh out of high school. Ill try to find a link to that article for you.
One book that questions the need for college (or college right away) is
The Question Is College. Another book, The Sheepskin Psychosis (which may be
out of print), gets deeply into the myths about college tuition being a good
investment in purely financial terms. A book that might get Gabe thinking
about the fact that even adults with degrees are not necessarily satisfied
with their lives is Michael Foglers Unjobbing. If Gabe is concerned about
making a living, have him try You Money Or Your Life, by Joe (?) Dominguez.
The voluntary simplicity and frugality movements (which have websites,
and meetings all over the country) are good places to look for information
on living well on less, and thus being able to work at what you love. Check
out the Tightwad Gazette books by Amy Dacyczyn (at least three volumes).
. .
But if Gabe wont be satisfied with anything less than an assurance that he
will be able to get into college if he does decide he wants to, there are
several books on how homeschoolers get in. One is Judy Gelners College
Admissions: A Guide for Homeschoolers. Another is And What About College?,
by David and Micki Colfax. (Three of the Colfax kids got into Harvard the
parents have also written two other books, Homeschooling for Excellence and
Hard Times in Paradise.) Holt Associates has a pamphlet titled Life After
Homeschooling, excerpted from Growing Without Schooling.
It sounds like Gabe is already critical of the school system. Build on
this - suggest he read John Holts books, beginning either with How Children
Fail (revised edition only!) or with Instead Of Education. John had a very
straightforward, accessible style, and wrote about what really goes on in
the classroom every day (and in the latter book, about what can go on
outside of it).
Some of the materials Im suggesting can be found by going to the Holt
Associates website at http://www.holt/gws.com . You may have to link from
there to F.U.N. Books, which is the company that recently bought out most of
the Holt Associates book business. (If you have trouble finding any of the
things Im recommending, please let me know because I recommend them all the
time.)
Im just realizing that the most useful reference I can probably give you is
to the Grown Homeschoolers category in the 2002 Directory, which is
contained in the last issue of the (very recently defunct) magazine, Growing
Without Schooling. Ive just looked at it there are about seventy names
listed, all of grown homeschoolers who are now in college, working, or
otherwise out in the world, and all with contact information and a brief
description of what theyre doing. They all agreed to be listed, in order to
answer questions and give advice. Again, go to the Holt Associates website
to order it.
I love to brainstorm on possibilities for teens who are thinking about
leaving school. Unfortunately, the last two times I did this, nothing came
of it, as the kids were already 16, and in the end too worried about their
futures to make any big changes, rather than just going along with it for a
couple more years. One had parental support and the other didnt. With your
support, and at his relatively young age, theres absolutely no doubt in my
mind that if Gabe focuses on doing interesting things in the here and now,
the future will largely take care of itself.
But you might ask him, since he seems very upset about it, just exactly what
he envisions when he thinks about what might happen to him if he didnt get
into college. Does he picture himself on the streets, begging? Or just stuck
in a boring or low-wage job? Or unable to hold his own in social situations
(marry the right girl, etc.)? Does the fact that you have custody, rather
than his parents, figure into it? Encourage him to be as specific as he can
in talking to you about his fears.
He may be looking around at adults he knows and not wanting to end up like
them. Which adults are these? Maybe some of these unhappy or unfortunate
people actually have college degrees - and maybe the ones he assume do,
actually dont. Maybe Gabe is worried about you the work you do or dont
do, how much you earn, whether you are happy or whether you can support him
and his brother. Its important to speak honestly about this.
People tend to assume I have a college degree, but I dont (I left after
three years to work for Holt Associates, John Holts organization). Among
other things, Ive translated four books for major art book publishers;
proofread the Spanish in a fifth book; worked as an interpreter in the court
system in Spain; published a front-page article in the Education section of
what was then Spains largest newspaper (El Pais); been on TV and radio in
Spain (promoting unschooling); taught English to adults for nine years in
Spain; and been asked to interview for a job teaching Spanish in the grade
school I went to as a kid in NY (I turned this down, of course!) Ive also
been a naturalist-guide in a New York State Park (leading school groups
around, for one thing) and have taught workshops in solar oven construction
at that Park and at a City Park.
Before all this, I traveled widely and had a lot of interesting experiences
involving alternative play therapy for kids under stress (London), organic
farming (Maine), rock climbing (France and Spain), spelunking (France), and
so on. Some of these things, I did while a teenager, when I should have
been in school, or as a young adult, when I should have been finishing up
my degree.
The educational chronology is this: two years of normal high school; one
year with the Audubon Expedition Institute, which is a traveling school;
one year on my own at 16, though with occasional financial support from my
parents, doing weird things like the organic farming apprenticeship and
being a mothers helper, etc.; off to college at 17 through early
admissions. After the three years of college, I left and have hardly looked
back. (Im thirty-five now, and busy with our two-year-old son and writing a
book on attachment parenting.)
I have known poverty, but it has never been because of the lack of a degree.
It sounds like Gabe might be at the age to do local volunteer work, if not
to spend long periods away from home. This will give him a lot more
confidence than completing any distance learning course (though if he did
want to consider enrolling somewhere, Id recommend Clonlaras extremely
flexible program, which can include as much volunteer work for grade
school/high school credit as you want).
If youre in this area (New York City), Id be happy to talk with Gabe or
with you. If youre not, why dont you post your general location? With
several hundred people on this list, theres likely to be someone in your
area who could help. Actually, it just so happens that I have a couple free
phone cards I wouldnt mind using up, so if he wants to talk I could call
him, or I could call you. Sometimes it helps to have a real conversation,
not just an on-screen one. So email me your phone number and Ill call.
You indicated that Gabe is interested in things, and is reading books he
loves. What things and books are these (if he doesnt mind your posting
this)? And what are the types of things hes definitely NOT interested in?
By thirteen a lot of kids have general leanings (hands-on, literary,
artistic, natural science, etc.), if not defined interests. I wouldnt
pressure him to specialize, but it helps to know a little more. Why dont
you hand over the messages youve gotten so far to Gabe and ask him whether
he wants to post his own? There is nothing that says this has to be an
adults-only forum.
If you send me a mailing address, I can send you a copy of an article I
wrote for a nationwide teaching magazine when I was 12, titled A Student
Speaks Out (I was paid $200 for it maybe this fact would inspire him to do
some writing of his own). Im much more radical now than I was then, of
course, but it could give Gabe another kids perspective.
Elsa Haas
ElsaHaas@...
-----Original Message-----
From: Shari Watson [mailto:swatson1@...]
Sent: Saturday, November 24, 2001 12:15 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] advice?
Hi everyone,
I was wondering if maybe someone out there had advice regarding helping my
13 yr old brother relax and let learning happen.
I have custody of my two brothers, Gabe, 13, and Matt, 11. While they have
both been homeschooled for the last couple of years, this is our first time
attempting unschooling. It is a learning process for all of us.
Matt is starting to realize that everything he does is a learning activity,
and is learning German, because he wants to, and reading books of his
choice. He is having a blast with the pressure to pass to the next grade
level removed.
Gabe comes to me with tears in his eyes, saying, "I feel like I'm not DOING
anything" and "What would an eight grader be learning right now?" We have
provided him with things he shows interest in, and he IS reading books that
he loves. He is concerned he won't be able to get into college. He is
worried that if he does manage to get in, that he will be unable to keep up
intellectually with everyone else. He has seen the local public school
curriculum, and realizes that he is way ahead of where they say he should
be. (We live in a state that does not require testing.) He remembers public
school vividly, and does NOT want to go back, because he felt bored and
unchallenged all the time.
Are there any books we could read that might ease his fears? What else can I
do to help him feel ok about the learning he IS doing? I have never been a
parent before, and I'm just learning, too! :-)
Any advice or suggestions would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Shari
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com
To unsubscribe, set preferences, or read archives:
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http://www.home-ed-magazine.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Kathy
--- In Unschooling-dotcom@y..., Fetteroll <fetteroll@e...> wrote:
was so bored by my high school. It helped me to discover that college
level work was not that intimidating after all. I hope that if my kids
want to go to college, they'll take a few courses "early" if they find
an interest.
I also really liked the suggestion of entering college later when you
have explored your ideas and options to decide if you even want college
classroom style learning. I see college as a tool to get specific
skills/diploma, or place to explore other topics in a college setting.
Like you said some other careers come from practical experience and
apprenticships.
The freedom can be overwhelming at first, after years of being in the
system, and being told what's best for them. It's great that your
brothers have you to help them on their way.
Kathy B.
>I took community college courses while still in high school because I
> He could also take community college courses at some point (if your state
> allows it). Just out of interest. It might ease his mind about being able to
> do college work if he's already started.
>
> Joyce
was so bored by my high school. It helped me to discover that college
level work was not that intimidating after all. I hope that if my kids
want to go to college, they'll take a few courses "early" if they find
an interest.
I also really liked the suggestion of entering college later when you
have explored your ideas and options to decide if you even want college
classroom style learning. I see college as a tool to get specific
skills/diploma, or place to explore other topics in a college setting.
Like you said some other careers come from practical experience and
apprenticships.
The freedom can be overwhelming at first, after years of being in the
system, and being told what's best for them. It's great that your
brothers have you to help them on their way.
Kathy B.
Kathy
--- In Unschooling-dotcom@y..., "Shari Watson" <swatson1@k...> wrote:
that if he does manage to get in, that he will be unable to keep up
intellectually with everyone else.
I have never been a parent before, and I'm just learning, too! :-)
My advice about the college fears is for him to think about what he
might like to study, and where. Then he can get the college catalog(s)
online, or at a library maybe, and research the actual requirements and
courses. He can talk to others who have careers in fields is interested
in, and ask them what they felt was important to prepare with. None of
this has to be a commitment to study a specific field forever, just
gathering ideas and information. If we don't know our choices we don't
have any.
Whatever he's afraid of/concerned about can maybe be deflated with
research. Even the act of researching is empowering. Finding your own
answers. Taking action about something that bothers you. Problem
solving.
Keep up the great work!
Kathy B.
> Hi everyone,He is concerned he won't be able to get into college. He is worried
> I was wondering if maybe someone out there had advice regarding helping my 13 yr old brother relax and let learning happen.
that if he does manage to get in, that he will be unable to keep up
intellectually with everyone else.
I have never been a parent before, and I'm just learning, too! :-)
> Any advice or suggestions would be appreciated.You are so brave, and this is a great adventure for all of you.
> Thanks,
> Shari
>
My advice about the college fears is for him to think about what he
might like to study, and where. Then he can get the college catalog(s)
online, or at a library maybe, and research the actual requirements and
courses. He can talk to others who have careers in fields is interested
in, and ask them what they felt was important to prepare with. None of
this has to be a commitment to study a specific field forever, just
gathering ideas and information. If we don't know our choices we don't
have any.
Whatever he's afraid of/concerned about can maybe be deflated with
research. Even the act of researching is empowering. Finding your own
answers. Taking action about something that bothers you. Problem
solving.
Keep up the great work!
Kathy B.
Bridget E Coffman
I have to say, I would discourage a curriculum. If he understands that
he is bored with school, he would be bored with it too, I suspect. I
have heard that the World Book Website has a good guideline, maybe he
scould use it for reference and it would make him feel better to have
verification that he isn't missing something.
At 13, he could maybe start taking or auditing classes at some colleges.
Rachel is 16 and she will be going either in January of in September of
2002. It's her choice, not mine. My bigger problem with colleges these
days is that many of the professors and administrators don't seem to
understand that they are there to provide a service. The students are
not there to provide their salaries. So, if he chooses to research
colleges early, at least make him aware of that concern.
You didn't list his interests, but if he is into some specific field,
help him find ways to explore it.
Bridget
In three words I can sum up everything I've learned about life: it
goes on.
- Robert Frost
he is bored with school, he would be bored with it too, I suspect. I
have heard that the World Book Website has a good guideline, maybe he
scould use it for reference and it would make him feel better to have
verification that he isn't missing something.
At 13, he could maybe start taking or auditing classes at some colleges.
Rachel is 16 and she will be going either in January of in September of
2002. It's her choice, not mine. My bigger problem with colleges these
days is that many of the professors and administrators don't seem to
understand that they are there to provide a service. The students are
not there to provide their salaries. So, if he chooses to research
colleges early, at least make him aware of that concern.
You didn't list his interests, but if he is into some specific field,
help him find ways to explore it.
Bridget
>^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
> Depending on your financial situation, you might want to also let
> him
> know he has a choice of purchasing a cirriculum from one of the
> homeschooling resource schools. I've seen them range from $150 -
> $600. I
> suppose it depends on how much paperwork and support for state regs
> one
> needs?!
>
>
> Good luck and let us know how it goes!
>
>
> Warm Regards,
> kolleen
>
>
In three words I can sum up everything I've learned about life: it
goes on.
- Robert Frost
Kolleen
>Bridget writes:Yes, a curriculum isn't for everyone. Hence the reason unschooling works
>I have to say, I would discourage a curriculum. If he understands that
>he is bored with school, he would be bored with it too, I suspect.
so well. And we can't ignore the fact that *some* people need the
validation of having a curriculum and/or enjoy *grades*.
It reminds me of one of the founders of a Sudbury Model school in CA. An
Ivy League school graduate with years in the business world. He founded
the school for his son to attend. YET, he himself acknowledges the fact
that that kind of unschooling would not of worked for him.
Its all about laying out as many choices that we can come up with, so
that sis can present them to brother. His opinion will decide what should
be discouraged or not.
When a person hears/reads/sees something that *sings* to the depth of
their being - its right for them - and it will allay their fears.
I thouroughly enjoyed Joyce's response, which pointed out many options,
especially the idea of "Help him think of this time not as time to
prepare for college and adulthood, but as time to explore who he is and
what he loves." (Joyce)
regards,
k
[email protected]
In a message dated 11/25/2001 11:58:23 AM !!!First Boot!!!,
laurawilder82@... writes:
Recent example: PS friend and her daughter attended a pre-college
visit-the-school thing. The daughter thought she was headed for medicine.
She's a junior in high school. Now, though, after hearing more options
during the visit, she's thinking chemistry as a major.
You never know!
Nance
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
laurawilder82@... writes:
> Whatever he's afraid of/concerned about can maybe be deflated withThis is so true.
> research. Even the act of researching is empowering. Finding your own
> answers. Taking action about something that bothers you. Problem
> solving.
>
> Keep up the great work!
>
> Kathy B.
>
Recent example: PS friend and her daughter attended a pre-college
visit-the-school thing. The daughter thought she was headed for medicine.
She's a junior in high school. Now, though, after hearing more options
during the visit, she's thinking chemistry as a major.
You never know!
Nance
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
On Sun, 25 Nov 01 09:09:00 -0500 Kolleen <Kolleen@...> writes:
who feel that they need these things have been raised in a way that makes
then dependent on external structures like this, it's not an innate
characteristic. I mean, grades are basically someone else's opinion on
how good you area...
Dar
________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.
> Yes, a curriculum isn't for everyone. Hence the reason unschoolingYa think? I'm not sure I agree with that, or I would think that people
> works
> so well. And we can't ignore the fact that *some* people need the
> validation of having a curriculum and/or enjoy *grades*.
who feel that they need these things have been raised in a way that makes
then dependent on external structures like this, it's not an innate
characteristic. I mean, grades are basically someone else's opinion on
how good you area...
Dar
________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.
[email protected]
In a message dated 11/25/2001 2:12:46 PM Eastern Standard Time,
freeform@... writes:
looking for someone else to tell them they are worthwhile people, something I
think is pretty rampant because of grades and rewards, etc.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
freeform@... writes:
> Ya think? I'm not sure I agree with that, or I would think that peoplei would agree with you Dar. . . people looking for external validation are
> who feel that they need these things have been raised in a way that makes
> then dependent on external structures like this, it's not an innate
> characteristic. I mean, grades are basically someone else's opinion on
> how good you area...
>
> Dar
>
looking for someone else to tell them they are worthwhile people, something I
think is pretty rampant because of grades and rewards, etc.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Kolleen
>> Ya think? I'm not sure I agree with that, or I would think that peopleYes, its a point well taken Dar, thanks for bringing it up and showing me
>> who feel that they need these things have been raised in a way that makes
>> then dependent on external structures like this, it's not an innate
>> characteristic. I mean, grades are basically someone else's opinion on
>> how good you area...
>>
>> Dar
>>
>
>i would agree with you Dar. . . people looking for external validation are
>looking for someone else to tell them they are worthwhile people,
>something I
>think is pretty rampant because of grades and rewards, etc.
another side of the coin.
From what I understand of this situation involving a child who felt
frustrated, was that he
*was* apparently 'raised' in the public school system. You can't take a
person who *might* need the security of grades and rip it out from them
because they were in the wrong system many years ago.
If this child were unschooled and unparented *smile* for his entire life,
I HIGHLY doubt that this situation would be happening now.
-k
Kolleen
>> Ya think? I'm not sure I agree with that, or I would think that peopleYes, its a point well taken Dar, thanks for bringing it up and showing me
>> who feel that they need these things have been raised in a way that makes
>> then dependent on external structures like this, it's not an innate
>> characteristic. I mean, grades are basically someone else's opinion on
>> how good you area...
>>
>> Dar
>>
>
>i would agree with you Dar. . . people looking for external validation are
>looking for someone else to tell them they are worthwhile people,
>something I
>think is pretty rampant because of grades and rewards, etc.
another side of the coin.
From what I understand of this situation involving a child who felt
frustrated, was that he
*was* apparently 'raised' in the public school system. You can't take a
person who *might* need the security of grades and rip it out from them
because they were in the wrong system many years ago.
If this child were unschooled and unparented *smile* for his entire life,
I HIGHLY doubt that this situation would be happening now.
-k
Elsa Haas
Alfie Kohns book, Punished By Rewards, is chock full of controlled studies
showing what rewards do to peoples motivation. It aint pretty!
Elsa Haas
I would think that people
showing what rewards do to peoples motivation. It aint pretty!
Elsa Haas
I would think that people
>> who feel that they need these things have been raised in a way that makes[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>> then dependent on external structures like this, it's not an innate
>> characteristic. I mean, grades are basically someone else's opinion on
>> how good you are...
>>
>> Dar
>>
Joy Sypher
<. You can't take a
person who *might* need the security of grades and rip it out from them
because they were in the wrong system many years ago.>
Sure you can. It just takes lots of patience, freedom and encouragement. I certainly hope that the idea that a grade is needed can be re-taught to be that learning is needed.
Sometimes you have to rip the security blanket off and shake up life a bit. Drive to the store the long way around, go to a movie at a different theater, go to the library across town.
Joy in NM
..
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
person who *might* need the security of grades and rip it out from them
because they were in the wrong system many years ago.>
Sure you can. It just takes lots of patience, freedom and encouragement. I certainly hope that the idea that a grade is needed can be re-taught to be that learning is needed.
Sometimes you have to rip the security blanket off and shake up life a bit. Drive to the store the long way around, go to a movie at a different theater, go to the library across town.
Joy in NM
..
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]