groundhoggirl

I am new to this list (just been here less than 2 weeks) and would like
to remain here. I would also like to participate in Sandra's new list,
if there is one. If someone knows where this list is, I would like to
know. Thanks.

Mimi


On Sunday, November 25, 2001, at 12:59 PM, Carol & Mac wrote:

> lovemary -
>
> lite2yu@... wrote:
>
>> I respect Sandra deciding to leave and begin another list. I
>> know it too will be a valuable tool for those who are able to use it
>> just as
>> this list is and will continue to be.
>
> I knew Sandra had left, but I have been using the delete button pretty
> liberally, so have missed much - has Sandra actually started a new list?
> If so where?
>
> Carol
>
>
>
> Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
> Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com
>
> To unsubscribe, set preferences, or read archives:
> http://www.egroups.com/group/Unschooling-dotcom
>
> Another great list sponsored by Home Education Magazine!
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>
>

LisaBugg

Since this list is not moderated in any way, the only recourse we have to
the constant snipping between two people is to point out what I point out to
my children. It takes two to tango. Who wants to be the grown up?

~Lisa

[email protected]

> Since this list is not moderated in any way, the only recourse we have to
> the constant snipping between two people is to point out what I point out to
> my children. It takes two to tango.

I'll leave, because it's pretty apparent that two people have interest in
little else than belittling me. If I'm to be equated with them I'd rather
they just have the whole deal.

I just wish they were giving better unschooling advice than they are. I'll
still be around, but I won't be here.

Sandra


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Kolleen

>> Since this list is not moderated in any way, the only recourse we have to
>> the constant snipping between two people is to point out what I point out to
>> my children. It takes two to tango.
>
>I'll leave, because it's pretty apparent that two people have interest in
>little else than belittling me. If I'm to be equated with them I'd rather
>they just have the whole deal.


I don't know why anyone should leave. Or need a moderator.

These things have a way of running their course. Just let it run out of
gas.

There's some great opinions and some heavy topics on the board here,
don't let the natural flow of conversation (all kinds) get castrated.

IMHO,

k

[email protected]

In a message dated 11/23/2001 3:33:05 PM Central Standard Time,
SandraDodd@... writes:

<< I'll leave >>

Now I have not been following all the discussions going on here closely, I
just have been really busy. So I am not certain exactly what is going on. But
if this list does not jump up and say SANDRA DO NOT LEAVE, then you are all
making a big mistake. Sandra has more information on unschooling than anyone
else I have ever "talked to or listened to," (it has all been online)
Listening to her advice has helped me numerous times. It seems to be popular
here lately to jump all over her and for those that do they are the ones that
need to "be the adult"

This list will be of little use if Sandra is gone and the bullies stay.

I say please, Sandra, stay.

Candace

[email protected]

I second that. I come here for the advice from veteran UNschoolers. I don't
want to hear a watered down, mainstream, What ever is good for you version
of unschooling. I can get that at most other HSing lists even many
unschooling lists. I want to hear the opinion of the "radicals". Then I do
what has already been suggested - Take what you need and leave the rest.
Elissa
>Now I have not been following all the discussions going on here closely, I
>just have been really busy. So I am not certain exactly what is going on.
But
>if this list does not jump up and say SANDRA DO NOT LEAVE, then you are all
>making a big mistake. Sandra has more information on

[email protected]

I agree with you. I have enjoyed hearing Sandra's responses to many
of the questions I've been throwing out.
Sheila

So I am not certain exactly what is going on. But
> if this list does not jump up and say SANDRA DO NOT LEAVE, then you
are all
> making a big mistake. Sandra has more information on unschooling
than anyone
> else I have ever "talked to or listened to," (it has all been
online)
> Listening to her advice has helped me numerous times.

LisaBugg

> If you (Sandra) leave, I will leave since this group won't be worth
subscribing
> to any longer.
>These things have a way of running their course. Just let it run out of
gas.

You know, I think I've been silent way too long. When Mark and Helen came
to me and asked if I was interested in developing unschooling.com with them
I jumped at the chance. It's been an exciting, fulfilling, labor of love.
Our goal was to create an unschooling networking community. A community
where support and resources were shared. Where are goals and dreams were
given a voice. Those of us who have worked within the homeschooling
community for a long time have seen many changes over the years and right
now we are in a very difficult period. So many people are fleeing a
crumbling public system that the joys of homeschooling and the valuable
lessons we have garnered over the years threatened to be overwhelmed by
worry and panic. At this point in time ALL of our voices matter.

I have known Sandra a long time. I've spent a week living in her home. I've
traveled to other states just to be able to have some face to face time with
her. She should have a very clear understanding of just how important she
has been in my own life and evolution.

There are unschoolers with 15 - 20 -25 years of experience on this list.
There are many authors and conference speakers. We have writers galore.
There are 600! people who have access to this list. I am hearing from long
time friends that they aren't going to read and respond here anymore. The
owner is talking about unseeing from the list.

These last two months of constant, almost uninterrupted, fighting have me
hating my own work. This kind of personal bickering will not just run out
of gas. There are many of us simply not speaking up on the list because we
know no matter what is said, no matter what the topic, the subject is going
to always come back to I did/I did not/Look what she said. It's simply
untenable. It's ruining the sense of community I have spent helping to
build during the last 3 years. If the 3 people who spend so much time
harping on each other need to leave the list so that we may return to some
sense of community, well then, so be it.

~L

Sharon Rudd

How about another, invitation only, list? Invite
those from this, or other lists, that seem to be in a
wholesome frame of mind.....keep this list going too
as a learning forum....I feel it really does serve
that useful purpose very well. Even with the silly
stuff.

To be an unschooler, a parent MUST be strong. Email
garbage flung around won't stick to such people.
However it is disturbing when the only similar minded
people many of us have any contact with are through
this list. We all hear the same nonsense from our
raltives and neighbors and others (public media) all
the time and have come to expect some respite here,
but oh well....live and learn.

I have a new sister-in-law coming today....sorta
dreading it....she is a "former" K teacher. She made
sure to mention that her adult children have houses
with five bathrooms and she asked me on the phone
"what would she see if she opened my closet door? Ha!!
I was TRYING to read to Roy (now 8) from Harry Potter
(vol III) and she wouldn't get off phone!! Hope she
doesn't feel the need to "test" Roy in her very
opinionated way. As there are lots of others coming,
too, I might not be able to run interference all the
time.

Due to the bickering on this list, though, I have some
very good rejoiners and thoughtful, polite rebuffs!!!
See!! Something good can come from almost everything!!

Sharon








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[email protected]

Starting a sub-list of this would be starting a clique--a group of
people who feel superior to everyone else on the list. Soon, people
will find out that there is a list of "friends" and "true
unschoolers" and that they haven't been invited and will feel very
bad. Also, what happens when people create these sub lists is that
pretty soon the "sub-list" people start posting so much on their sub-
list that they don't post on the original list very often and the
original list often goes down the drain.
Sheila


> How about another, invitation only, list? Invite
> those from this, or other lists, that seem to be in a
> wholesome frame of mind.....keep this list going too
> as a learning forum....I feel it really does serve
> that useful purpose very well. Even with the silly
> stuff.

Sharon Rudd

Oh well. Seems to have happened anyway. Just a
thought. Was off line for a couple of weeks....dunno
what happened. I deleted over 600 posts when we got
booted up again. My point finger got TIRED. I'm gonna
unsub, at least for now.
See Ya
Sharon

> pretty soon the "sub-list" people start posting so
> much on their sub-
> list that they don't post on the original list very
> often and the
> original list often goes down the drain.
> Sheila


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just $8.95/month.
http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info1

[email protected]

Hi all,
I am a relative newcomer to this list - about 3-4 weeks now.
I have been mostly lurking, feeling I am benefitting more from
reading than asking. Other people usually ask the same question I
would have, anyway. And I always read everything, never blindly
delete.

I am so profoundly saddened by what I have seen transpire in the past
few days on this list. That's all I will say about that. I feel way
too much has been said already.

Another thing that I want to say is thank you Lisa Bugg and Helen for
having the forsight to start both unschooling-dotcom and also
unschooling.com, even if it was long before I ever heard of
unschooling. I appreciate these forums so much. Sandra and so many
others have helped me become a better person and a better mother. I
doubt if these changes would have happened if I had not run across
unschooling.com shortly before 9-11. Since then, what a personal
journey it has been, for me and my family. I am grateful to you.

There has been talk of un-subbing and the member count is noticeably
dropping now. But I will stay, and probably mostly lurk, for I still
have much learning (and unlearning) to do. I will also hope that
Sandra and others leaving will find it in their heart to come back,
for I will miss them.

Warmly,

Karin



--- In Unschooling-dotcom@y..., "LisaBugg" <LisaBugg@u...> wrote:
>
> > If you (Sandra) leave, I will leave since this group won't be
worth
> subscribing
> > to any longer.
> >These things have a way of running their course. Just let it run
out of
> gas.
>
> You know, I think I've been silent way too long. When Mark and
Helen came
> to me and asked if I was interested in developing unschooling.com
with them
> I jumped at the chance. It's been an exciting, fulfilling, labor
of love.
> Our goal was to create an unschooling networking community. A
community
> where support and resources were shared. Where are goals and dreams
were
> given a voice. Those of us who have worked within the homeschooling
> community for a long time have seen many changes over the years and
right
> now we are in a very difficult period. So many people are fleeing a
> crumbling public system that the joys of homeschooling and the
valuable
> lessons we have garnered over the years threatened to be
overwhelmed by
> worry and panic. At this point in time ALL of our voices matter.
>
> I have known Sandra a long time. I've spent a week living in her
home. I've
> traveled to other states just to be able to have some face to face
time with
> her. She should have a very clear understanding of just how
important she
> has been in my own life and evolution.
>
> There are unschoolers with 15 - 20 -25 years of experience on this
list.
> There are many authors and conference speakers. We have writers
galore.
> There are 600! people who have access to this list. I am hearing
from long
> time friends that they aren't going to read and respond here
anymore. The
> owner is talking about unseeing from the list.
>
> These last two months of constant, almost uninterrupted, fighting
have me
> hating my own work. This kind of personal bickering will not just
run out
> of gas. There are many of us simply not speaking up on the list
because we
> know no matter what is said, no matter what the topic, the subject
is going
> to always come back to I did/I did not/Look what she said. It's
simply
> untenable. It's ruining the sense of community I have spent
helping to
> build during the last 3 years. If the 3 people who spend so much
time
> harping on each other need to leave the list so that we may return
to some
> sense of community, well then, so be it.
>
> ~L

Elsa Haas

I know this isn’t an “Attachment Parenting”/”Continuum Concept” list (and I
plan to sign back up to one of those soon), but I suspect that there are a
fair number of unschoolers interested in those topics. So here goes.

A couple of days ago I sent off my “Explanation As to Why I Cannot Arrange
for Alternate Care During My Period of Jury Service” (this is the wording
from the form sent to me). I’m pasting what I sent below.

NYC recently (a few years ago, I think) did away with all the “automatic
exemptions” to jury duty. I don’t know what the age was, but it used to be
that if you were the “sole caregiver” for a child under a certain age, that’
s all you had to prove. Now they require an “Explanation” of some sort,
apparently even for the mother of a newborn. Our son will be about two
years, seven months old this Friday, which is when I would be required to
start calling in for jury duty (I would be on standby, listening to a
prerecorded message telling me whether to report or not).

The advice a local La Leche League Leader gave me initially was to just say
that I was breastfeeding. But I don’t feel that’s my real reason. Even if we
weren’t breastfeeding now, I wouldn’t feel right about leaving our son with
anybody for hours and hours on end. Besides, it has occurred to me that a
clerk could just say, “Why don’t you use a breastpump?” I also thought that
breastfeeding a “toddler” is “weird” enough in this society that it might
not go over well. (But then again, “attachment” is “weird”, too.)

As I wrote the explanation out, I was remembering some things John Holt said
about strategy in the original edition of Teach Your Own, which came out at
a time when the legal right to homeschool/unschool hadn’t been defined or
debated much.

He said that it was important to show that you were opting out of school
because of deeply held convictions (not because of a passing fancy or out of
laziness); that you would be willing to fight (in the courts) for your right
to do so; that letting you go ahead with it wasn’t likely to open the
floodgates to overwhelming numbers of others wanting to do the same, but
that, at the same time, you would probably be able to find others to support
you in your fight (hence my listing of three books, and my choice to use the
term “attachment parenting” even though I have been inspired more directly
by Jean Liedloff, not Dr. Sears).

John also said you should use certified mail (I did), and not talk much on
the phone so you can get it all in writing (I didn’t put my phone number on
the “Explanation”, but it’s on the form I had to send in with it). I’m going
to be interested to see how these tips work when it’s the court itself,
rather than the school district or whatever, that you’re dealing with.

On the bottom of the explanation, I handwrote the phrase, “Note: This is not
part of an application for a postponement, but for a hardship/excuse.” My
fear is not that I’ll be denied anything, but that they’ll find it
convenient to grant me a simple postponement.

To apply for a postponement, you don’t have to give any reasons or
explanations or proof. You just give a date from two to six months down the
road when you will be available. The catch is that you can only do this
once. So if I use up my right to postpone now, rather than getting a
“hardship/excuse”, I will have lost my opportunity to postpone for reasons
of my own convenience (work, vacation, etc.) We also hope to have more
children in the future, so I don’t want to establish a pattern of being
willing to accept a postponement.

Note that I didn’t specify when I expect to be available, because it depends
on how our son develops emotionally, though I did refer to the age of three
as a common “approximate” age.

This may all become moot if we move, as we hope to. (I’m thirty-five, but
have never served on a jury before because I‘ve lived in twenty-six
different places, including nine years in Spain.)

Under “Postponements”, the form I got said that you should assume you’d been
granted one unless you were contacted. It didn’t say anything about this
under “Hardships/Excuses”, so I don’t know what I’m supposed to do if I don’
t hear anything by Friday. I also don’t know whom you can make an appeal to.

The form says, “Failure to appear may subject you to non-compliance
hearings.”

Anyway, I’d appreciate any advice or constructive criticism. Here’s the
“Explanation”:


AN EXPLANATION AS TO WHY I CANNOT ARRANGE FOR ALTERNATE
CARE DURING MY PERIOD OF JURY SERVICE


(SUBMITTED AS PART OF MY REQUEST FOR A HARDSHIP/EXCUSE) :




My husband and I practice “attachment parenting”, as described in the
following books (among others):

Attachment Parenting. Katie Allison Granju with Betsy Kennedy, R.N., M.S.N.
New York: Simon and Schuster, 1999.

The Baby Book. Dr. William Sears, M.D., and Martha Sears, R.N. New York:
Little, Brown and Co., 1993.

The Continuum Concept. Jean Liedloff. Reading, MA: Addison-Wesley, 1985.
First published: 1977. (This book does not refer to “attachment parenting”,
as the term was coined by Dr. Sears some years after its original
publication, but it advocates similar principles.)

Attachment parenting requires (among other things) that the primary
caregiver/s, usually the mother, be continuously available to the child, day
and night, for approximately the first three years of life, depending on the
emotional development of the individual child.
The longest period of time our son has ever been apart from me (aside from
the several hours following his birth by emergency C-section) was for three
hours and thirty-five minutes, and this was as recently as November 14th,
when I attended a funeral which was a ten-minute walk away from the
alternate caregiver’s house. She (a close friend) was willing to bring my
son to me if he really needed me. (He didn’t cry, but did ask for me several
times, and toward the end of this time needed to go out and sit on the front
steps to wait for me.)
The second-longest time my son has ever been apart from me in his life was
for one hour and fifteen minutes this past summer, when on his own
initiative he joined a group of children and one adult in going to the
playground across the street from where I was taking part in a meeting. He
was brought to me on his request at the end of this time.
The third-longest period of time he has ever been apart from me has been on
the several occasions when he went out for a walk of about an hour with his
father – on these occasions, he would have been brought to me sooner if he
had asked.
I understand this country’s need for jurors, but also understand that it
must be balanced against the rights of individual citizens to parent their
children in the way they see fit. I hope these specific descriptions of my
son’s experiences to date will make clear to you that he is unusually
“attached” to his mother, compared to other children in this culture. I
believe that there are very few parents who would be able to honestly give
similar descriptions.
I know that many parents in this culture feel that it is “good for” a child
to be forcibly removed from the mother’s care for hours at a time, from the
earliest age, and no matter how hard the child cries. My husband and I have
made a different choice.
We have expended an enormous amount of effort (and sacrificed my own
contribution to the family income) in order to assure our son this
continuity of care. We have done so for the reasons set forth in the three
books indicated above, and in accordance with parenting practices followed
until the historically recent past in this country, and still followed in
many other parts of the world (where both the child and adult populations,
perhaps not coincidentally, exhibit fewer psychological problems than is
true here).
I don’t ask that anyone agree with us in our choice of parenting styles –
only that this choice be respected until our son is capable of a longer
separation, and one in which he would not have the option of being brought
to me.
Thank you for your attention. If you need further information, please don’t
hesitate to contact me in writing.
Enclosed is the completed and signed jury duty form, along with a copy of
our son’s birth certificate.


Yours truly,

Elsa Haas
Nov. 16, 2001








[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

meghan anderson

<<I'll leave, because it's pretty apparent that two
people have interest in little else than belittling
me. If I'm to be equated with them I'd rather they
just have the whole deal.

I just wish they were giving better unschooling advice
than they are. I'll still be around, but I won't be
here.

Sandra>>

I feel so sad that it's come to this. I got so much
from Sandra's posts. I just hope that I continue to
get as much from the others that have touched me (and
that they don't leave as well). I don't understand why
there is so much defensiveness on this list. Why can't
people just say what they believe/feel and if it
doesn't apply to your situation, just let it go. It
takes a lot of energy to hold anger in. It festers. I
joined this list a few weeks ago (just before the
sniping began) and I was so excited to be here. I have
now met another unschooler in my area, but I like to
come here for the stimulation and challenges. I find
my mind being given fodder for new ways of thinking
and growing and Sandra has been a big part of that
along with others here. I feel sad that I've been here
such a short time and it feels as though a dynamic
that existed here before has been lost before I got a
chance to truly get to know it (that sentence is very
convoluted but I don't know how else to put it). I'll
see what happens with the list. Maybe now that
Sandra's gone the snipers will find someone else to
focus on or maybe they will have learned a valuable
life lesson. Let's hope and pray for the latter. I
would like to strongly recommend the 'mysto' book that
Kathy B recommended in digest # 1612. It has changed
the way I perceive things tremendously.

Meghan


__________________________________________________
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Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just $8.95/month.
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[email protected]

In a message dated 11/24/01 10:01:54 PM Eastern Standard Time,
ElsaHaas@... writes:

<<
Under “Postponements”, the form I got said that you should assume you’d been
granted one unless you were contacted. It didn’t say anything about this
under “Hardships/Excuses”, so I don’t know what I’m supposed to do if I
don’
t hear anything by Friday. I also don’t know whom you can make an appeal to.

The form says, “Failure to appear may subject you to non-compliance
hearings.”

Anyway, I’d appreciate any advice or constructive criticism. Here’s the
“Explanation”: >>

For what it's worth, last month I was also notified for jury duty. I filled
out and returned the form with a request to be excused on the basis that I
had young children and no one to care for them. I had planned on calling the
courthouse the week of the trial to make sure that it was accepted but they
contacted me first, needing to know the children's ages. I said "2 and 4" and
she said "Fine, you're excused from serving."I thought your response sounded
very well-thought-out....I hope it goes well for you!
Amy
Amy Kagey in NW Ohio
<A HREF="http://www.ubah.com/ecommerce/default.asp?sid=Z0939&gid=85215">
Usborne Books</A>
make great Christmas gifts!
(www.ubah.com/z0939)

Jocelyn Vilter

> If the 3 people who spend so much time
> harping on each other need to leave the list so that we may return to some
> sense of community, well then, so be it.

~L

I know I don't write here much, but I do discuss this list with my dh and my
in real life friends at the park on a regular basis, and I do (or did) feel
some sense of ownership of this list.

I can't let this railroading of Sandra pass by without some comment. You
have more or less said 'Sandra don't let the door hit you in the ass on the
way out' and what makes you so sure that the other two will leave? And with
what does this leave us? A diluted, watered down presentation of some vague
ideas about unschooling? Kind of like the committee written textbook
version as opposed to the getting-it-straight-from-the horses-mouth-info
that we unschoolers supposedly love so much. I don't mean any disrespect to
the few people on this list who are either new at unschooling, and asking
questions, or those who have been doing it for years and who post helpful,
non-backbiting posts on a regular basis. It just seems to me that the
vision of unschooling that Sandra presents is so clear - because she,
herself is so clear about the benefits to her family, that we ought to be
listening more and fighting with her less.

Jocelyn Vilter

Elizabeth Hill

Sharon Rudd wrote:

>
> I have a new sister-in-law coming today....sorta
> dreading it....she is a "former" K teacher. She made
> sure to mention that her adult children have houses
> with five bathrooms and she asked me on the phone
> "what would she see if she opened my closet door? Ha!

Yikes! She might as well be carrying a big sign that says "I intend to
invade your privacy and judge you."

Shudder.

Betsy

LisaBugg

> > If the 3 people who spend so much time
> > harping on each other need to leave the list so that we may return to
some
> > sense of community, well then, so be it.
>
> ~L
>
> I >
> I can't let this railroading of Sandra pass by without some comment

This is a gross misreading of my words. My original question asked "Who
will be the grown up". The answer to that question did not imply "who will
leave the list". There were a myriad of answers and responses to my
question. One or two or three or more could have said:

We will no longer rise to take the bait.
We will no longer read or respond to certain individuals.
We will no longer react when certain individuals repeatedly attack. For if
there is to be no moderation of the lists, attacks are freely acceptable.

And I'm sure that other can come up with other ways "to be the grown up".

Sandra's response was to leave the list. That is surely her choice and
prerogative.

In times past I have gone to Sandra and asked her, on the basis of
friendship, just to let things go. Many times she's opted to just not read
for a week or two or three. This time that option did not feel appropriate.
How many times should she have to do that?

Not all of our choices are easy ones.

Lisa

[email protected]

In a message dated 11/25/2001 12:07:29 PM Eastern Standard Time,
LisaBugg@... writes:


> In times past I have gone to Sandra and asked her, on the basis of
> friendship, just to let things go. Many times she's opted to just not read
> for a week or two or three. This time that option did not feel appropriate.
> How many times should she have to do that?
>
>

I guess she has decided not any more times. . . that's what happens
sometimes. I think it was perfectly valid for you to express your opinion on
it Lisa, and it was a good question to ponder. I appreciate the opportunity
to ponder it. I respect Sandra deciding to leave and begin another list. I
know it too will be a valuable tool for those who are able to use it just as
this list is and will continue to be.

lovemary


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Carol & Mac

> > "what would she see if she opened my closet door? Ha!

Evidence of a life lived to the full

rather than

evidence of a life lived in a closet?

Carol

Carol & Mac

lovemary -

lite2yu@... wrote:

> I respect Sandra deciding to leave and begin another list. I
> know it too will be a valuable tool for those who are able to use it
> just as
> this list is and will continue to be.

I knew Sandra had left, but I have been using the delete button pretty
liberally, so have missed much - has Sandra actually started a new list?
If so where?

Carol

Fetteroll

on 11/25/01 1:12 PM, lite2yu@... at lite2yu@... wrote:

> I respect Sandra deciding to leave and begin another list.

No, she hasn't started a separate list. Someone else suggested a separate
list might be a good idea. But Sandra hasn't started one.

Joyce


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Kolleen

>> If the 3 people who spend so much time
>> harping on each other need to leave the list so that we may return to some
>> sense of community, well then, so be it.
>
>>~L
>
>Jocelyn Vilter writes:
>I know I don't write here much, but I do discuss this list with my dh and my
>in real life friends at the park on a regular basis, and I do (or did) feel
>some sense of ownership of this list.
>
>I can't let this railroading of Sandra pass by without some comment. You
>have more or less said 'Sandra don't let the door hit you in the ass on the
>way out' and what makes you so sure that the other two will leave?


I haven't been on this particular list long at all! I'm a definate newbie
to the established community here.

YET, I was saddened to see this whole misagosh take place. I did not
expect something like this on an unschooling list.

I had taken the time to read at least a thousand posts and wanted to ask
Sandra for clarification on things that I've read from her that I
perceived as prejudical. But she chose to leave. Her choice. There didn't
seem to be any railroading.

She's not here so I cannot discuss MY issues with some of her opinions,
hence no details about it.

I was saddened to see the talk of a seperate list and how THIS list was
going to suffer terribly without her advice. It didn't say much for the
other great advice, eye-opening opinions and though-provoking words.

I'd like to thank the founders of this list for the opportunity it gives
us all.

Regards,
Kolleen

[email protected]

Yes she has


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

LisaBugg

> Yes she has
>
>

Mary,

Would you please ask her to send information about the list to us. Many
here would like to know and I can also place it in the unschooling
newsletter. Thanks

Lisa

[email protected]

Consider it done.

lovemary


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Tami Labig-Duquette

lovemary,
Is this an invitation only list? If not I would like to know the name
please, I miss her input very much here!
Indiana Tami

"You must be the change you wish to see in the world"
~Ghandi
Networking for Central Indiana unschoolers :)
http://communities.msn.com/ChildLedLearninginIndiana
Children Leading the Way!
http://[email protected]
Fun site for your kids or even you :)
http://www.neopets.com/refer.phtml?username=angel1bunny




----Original Message Follows----
From: lite2yu@...
Reply-To: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Sandra's list (not)
Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2001 19:09:50 EST

Yes she has


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp

[email protected]

In a message dated 11/25/2001 8:39:11 PM Eastern Standard Time,
labigduquette@... writes:


> lovemary,
>

No it is not, although it will be moderated. I have forwarded on Lisa's
request for info to Sandra, and will let her respond as she chooses.

lovemary


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Kathy

I know lovemary will forward your request, but I think the point of
Sandra's new list is to be private. To exclude the one or two folks out
of 600 on this list who criticized her. Otherwise she
would have stayed on here.

I know you said it's not officially by invitation only, but it is. If
it were open to all, Sandra would have told this list about it herself
already.

I think a list that was made of only supporters would get sort of dull
if you wanted any new info. Every post would be, "Oh yes I agree", and
"You're so right."zzzzzz.

So will our list dwindle as the new one grows? Maybe. Are we doomed
without her? No. Would we like her to return if she wants to? Of
course. No invitation required.

Kathy B.



--- In Unschooling-dotcom@y..., "LisaBugg" <LisaBugg@u...> wrote:

> Mary,
>
> Would you please ask her to send information about the list to us. Many
> here would like to know and I can also place it in the unschooling
> newsletter. Thanks
>
> Lisa

[email protected]

In a message dated 11/26/2001 8:08:47 AM Eastern Standard Time,
laurawilder82@... writes:


> but I think the point of
> Sandra's new list is to be private. To exclude the one or two folks out
>

Then you don't know Sandra very well. If she wanted to exclude those who
critize and/or question her, she would have never told me about the list. She
and I have our share of disagreements, but there is a mutual respect and an
ability to move on past disagreements. And it isn't meant to be private,
because then she would have created a private list, not a public one as she
did. She hasn't told everyone on this list, because she is not a member
anymore and cannot post here if she isn't a member (I think). I highly doubt
the new list will be dull and full of "I agree" posts.

The reason I know about it is that I CC'd her on the post I wrote that had
information about her when she left the list. That felt like the right thing
to do to me. She wrote back to tell me she was thinking of starting another
list and did I want info on it. I replied I did. Very simple. . . no trying
to keep things private at all. I did not feel like I wanted to post all of
the information about that list on here, so I am giving her that option, as
LIsa requested. As I said, she is the moderator and will make decisions on
that list accordingly. I have no problems either way with lists being
moderated or not. I am on both types and seem to function fine either way.

lovemary


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