Re: Psychological/Physical
[email protected]
In a message dated 11/20/2001 8:16:18 AM Eastern Standard Time,
[email protected] writes:
systems can be separate. The thought process or mind or pyschological. . .
however we choose to define it is so intertwined in it all that it cannot
separate out. Everything that happens first begins as a thought, whether
totally conscious or subconscious or some variation therein.
To go a little further with this thought process. . . if we look all around
us, everything we see first had to be thought of by someone. The computer,
the keyboard, the walls, paint, etc. . . all of it began as a thought in
someone's mind. I don't think I will get into who thought "us" up, because I
know there are so many differing spiritual belief's, but I do believe there
had to be a thought about it first. Similarily, I believe the same thing to
happen in our own bodies. . . and the thought/mind process is so intertwined
with the physical parts, it becomes difficult to distinguish where one begins
and the other ends.
As always, this is my own truth, and is not meant to argue with anyone else's
truth.
lovemary
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected] writes:
> I just meant that sometimes the initialHere is where I differ in my thinking on this. . . I don't see that the
> mitigating factor is psychological and sometimes it is physical, but yes,
> the two very definitely play together.
>
>
systems can be separate. The thought process or mind or pyschological. . .
however we choose to define it is so intertwined in it all that it cannot
separate out. Everything that happens first begins as a thought, whether
totally conscious or subconscious or some variation therein.
To go a little further with this thought process. . . if we look all around
us, everything we see first had to be thought of by someone. The computer,
the keyboard, the walls, paint, etc. . . all of it began as a thought in
someone's mind. I don't think I will get into who thought "us" up, because I
know there are so many differing spiritual belief's, but I do believe there
had to be a thought about it first. Similarily, I believe the same thing to
happen in our own bodies. . . and the thought/mind process is so intertwined
with the physical parts, it becomes difficult to distinguish where one begins
and the other ends.
As always, this is my own truth, and is not meant to argue with anyone else's
truth.
lovemary
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Bridget
--- In Unschooling-dotcom@y..., lite2yu@a... wrote:
also don't think I thought my left ovary to ovulate through a blood
vessel and create a very painful blood filled cyst. I suppose it is
possible the bizarre neurological event that the doctor said was most
likely to have been an extremely mild case of Guillaun-Barre was
really a subconscious neurological attack.
But then, I find it really difficult to believe my dad thought his
brain tumor into existance or that one of my 'favoritest' people in
the world, who overcame huge odds to gat past drugs and addiction,
thought his fatal stomach cancer into existence.
Yes, it is difficult to distinguish where the psychological factors
are and where they aren't. But recognizing that there are some
diseases and conditions that just happen is very important to those
of us who have to deal with them. Otherwise, the implication is that
it is somehow our fault that our bodies have not functioned ideally.
Bridget
> Similarily, I believe the same thing tointertwined
> happen in our own bodies. . . and the thought/mind process is so
> with the physical parts, it becomes difficult to distinguish whereone begins
> and the other ends.I really doubt that I thought my blood into a clotting disorder. I
>
also don't think I thought my left ovary to ovulate through a blood
vessel and create a very painful blood filled cyst. I suppose it is
possible the bizarre neurological event that the doctor said was most
likely to have been an extremely mild case of Guillaun-Barre was
really a subconscious neurological attack.
But then, I find it really difficult to believe my dad thought his
brain tumor into existance or that one of my 'favoritest' people in
the world, who overcame huge odds to gat past drugs and addiction,
thought his fatal stomach cancer into existence.
Yes, it is difficult to distinguish where the psychological factors
are and where they aren't. But recognizing that there are some
diseases and conditions that just happen is very important to those
of us who have to deal with them. Otherwise, the implication is that
it is somehow our fault that our bodies have not functioned ideally.
Bridget
[email protected]
But recognizing that there are some
here at all. I simply said my belief is that it begins with thought,
somewhere in our minds/spirits/subconscious, etc. I never implied in
any fashion that anyone is at fault. . . that is strictly your
thoughts.
I dont think it is a bad thing or something to feel bad about when a
body doesnt function "ideally". I have diseases and conditions as
well. . . I am not excluding myself from the discussion. I do not
believe anything "just happens". . . it just is not in my realm of
possibility that this is the way it is.
I believe that all things that occur can serve as a great opportunity
for learning or remembering for us, including things we believe to be
a negative or harmful occurence in our lives. I try to not look at
disease or addiciton or anything of that nature as bad. . . I look at
it as an opportunity that I have chosen to experience.
No one can make another "feel' a certain way. If this dialog is
bringing up issues for someone, it is another opportunity to grow and
learn. Those things that bring out the strongest reactions in us are
there for our own opportunity.
lovemary
> diseases and conditions that just happen is very important to thosethat
> of us who have to deal with them. Otherwise, the implication is
> it is somehow our fault that our bodies have not functioned ideally.Then you totally misunderstood what I said. Fault is not at issue
>
> Bridget
here at all. I simply said my belief is that it begins with thought,
somewhere in our minds/spirits/subconscious, etc. I never implied in
any fashion that anyone is at fault. . . that is strictly your
thoughts.
I dont think it is a bad thing or something to feel bad about when a
body doesnt function "ideally". I have diseases and conditions as
well. . . I am not excluding myself from the discussion. I do not
believe anything "just happens". . . it just is not in my realm of
possibility that this is the way it is.
I believe that all things that occur can serve as a great opportunity
for learning or remembering for us, including things we believe to be
a negative or harmful occurence in our lives. I try to not look at
disease or addiciton or anything of that nature as bad. . . I look at
it as an opportunity that I have chosen to experience.
No one can make another "feel' a certain way. If this dialog is
bringing up issues for someone, it is another opportunity to grow and
learn. Those things that bring out the strongest reactions in us are
there for our own opportunity.
lovemary
Tia Leschke
>I deal with one of those conditions that lots of people think is "all in
>Yes, it is difficult to distinguish where the psychological factors
>are and where they aren't. But recognizing that there are some
>diseases and conditions that just happen is very important to those
>of us who have to deal with them. Otherwise, the implication is that
>it is somehow our fault that our bodies have not functioned ideally.
your head". On the fibromyalgia newsgroup, flame wars start all the time
because someone wants to talk about the possible psychological factors of
our illness, and someone else assumes that they mean it's all in your head.
I believe that there is a psychological factor to all illnesses. It can be
useful to look at the part that our mind is playing in our illness, even
when we know that there is a physical cause. I still remember the morning
after I had learned that my father had died of cancer. I got the worst
case of the flu I ever had, before or since. Now I'm quite sure that the
flu was caused by a virus. I'm equally sure that my state of mind had
something to do with my immune system letting it in. Recognizing that fact
helped me to relax and accept the nuturing I was needing just then, so I
could get better really fast and deal with what needed to be dealt with.
Tia
Tia Leschke leschke@...
On Vancouver Island
**************************************************************************
It is the answers which separate us, the questions which unite us. - Janice
Levy
Paul Bogush
Gentle hugs Tia...from another fibro sufferer....
Aimee
Aimee
----- Original Message -----
From: Tia Leschke <leschke@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2001 6:57 PM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Re: Psychological/Physical
>
> >
> >Yes, it is difficult to distinguish where the psychological factors
> >are and where they aren't. But recognizing that there are some
> >diseases and conditions that just happen is very important to those
> >of us who have to deal with them. Otherwise, the implication is that
> >it is somehow our fault that our bodies have not functioned ideally.
>
> I deal with one of those conditions that lots of people think is "all in
> your head". On the fibromyalgia newsgroup, flame wars start all the time
> because someone wants to talk about the possible psychological factors of
> our illness, and someone else assumes that they mean it's all in your
head.
>
> I believe that there is a psychological factor to all illnesses. It can
be
> useful to look at the part that our mind is playing in our illness, even
> when we know that there is a physical cause. I still remember the morning
> after I had learned that my father had died of cancer. I got the worst
> case of the flu I ever had, before or since. Now I'm quite sure that the
> flu was caused by a virus. I'm equally sure that my state of mind had
> something to do with my immune system letting it in. Recognizing that
fact
> helped me to relax and accept the nuturing I was needing just then, so I
> could get better really fast and deal with what needed to be dealt with.
> Tia
>
> Tia Leschke leschke@...
> On Vancouver Island
> **************************************************************************
> It is the answers which separate us, the questions which unite us. -
Janice
> Levy
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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Tia Leschke
At 08:55 PM 11/20/01 -0500, you wrote:
{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{Aimee}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}
Tia
No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.
Eleanor Roosevelt
*********************************************
Tia Leschke
leschke@...
On Vancouver Island
>Gentle hugs Tia...from another fibro sufferer....Thanks Aimee. Gentle hugs back at you.
>Aimee
{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{Aimee}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}
Tia
No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.
Eleanor Roosevelt
*********************************************
Tia Leschke
leschke@...
On Vancouver Island
[email protected]
In a message dated 11/20/2001 8:31:24 PM Eastern Standard Time,
leschke@... writes:
opportunites that ill-ness's and dis-Ease presents to us. It's not that the
physical is not "real" at all and that is where confusion comes in when
psychological terms are brought in. It is that they really cannot be
separated from the physical as they are integral and interelated.
lovemary
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
leschke@... writes:
> Recognizing that factThere you go Tia. . . that is pretty much what I am talking about . . . the
> helped me to relax and accept the nuturing I was needing just then, so I
> could get better really fast and deal with what needed to be dealt with.
> Tia
>
opportunites that ill-ness's and dis-Ease presents to us. It's not that the
physical is not "real" at all and that is where confusion comes in when
psychological terms are brought in. It is that they really cannot be
separated from the physical as they are integral and interelated.
lovemary
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
meghan anderson
The way I see and think of it is that nobody (or very
few) consciously 'thinks' up their illnesses. It's a
very subtle subconscious thing. It could be caused by
something like self-esteem issues or a traumatic early
childhood experience (or a past life experience - but
that's a bit too 'out there' for some people). But
also in the above situations I certainly don't think
it's a 'blame' issue. I believe it's more like an urge
to self awareness: what do I need to learn from this
experience?, I wonder if there's a psychological link
that I missed?, etc. Also, what about all the people
that have healed themselves of 'incurable' diseases by
sheer mind power. I wonder if that's like what's being
discussed here in reverse? Or maybe something like:
'My mind made me ill somehow so my mind will fix me'
(put in a very simplistic way).
Just some food for thought!
Meghan
<<I really doubt that I thought my blood into a
clotting disorder. I
also don't think I thought my left ovary to ovulate
through a blood
vessel and create a very painful blood filled cyst. I
suppose it is
possible the bizarre neurological event that the
doctor said was most
likely to have been an extremely mild case of
Guillaun-Barre was
really a subconscious neurological attack.
But then, I find it really difficult to believe my dad
thought his
brain tumor into existance or that one of my
'favoritest' people in
the world, who overcame huge odds to gat past drugs
and addiction,
thought his fatal stomach cancer into existence.
Yes, it is difficult to distinguish where the
psychological factors
are and where they aren't. But recognizing that there
are some
diseases and conditions that just happen is very
important to those
of us who have to deal with them. Otherwise, the
implication is that
it is somehow our fault that our bodies have not
functioned ideally.
Bridget>>
__________________________________________________
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few) consciously 'thinks' up their illnesses. It's a
very subtle subconscious thing. It could be caused by
something like self-esteem issues or a traumatic early
childhood experience (or a past life experience - but
that's a bit too 'out there' for some people). But
also in the above situations I certainly don't think
it's a 'blame' issue. I believe it's more like an urge
to self awareness: what do I need to learn from this
experience?, I wonder if there's a psychological link
that I missed?, etc. Also, what about all the people
that have healed themselves of 'incurable' diseases by
sheer mind power. I wonder if that's like what's being
discussed here in reverse? Or maybe something like:
'My mind made me ill somehow so my mind will fix me'
(put in a very simplistic way).
Just some food for thought!
Meghan
<<I really doubt that I thought my blood into a
clotting disorder. I
also don't think I thought my left ovary to ovulate
through a blood
vessel and create a very painful blood filled cyst. I
suppose it is
possible the bizarre neurological event that the
doctor said was most
likely to have been an extremely mild case of
Guillaun-Barre was
really a subconscious neurological attack.
But then, I find it really difficult to believe my dad
thought his
brain tumor into existance or that one of my
'favoritest' people in
the world, who overcame huge odds to gat past drugs
and addiction,
thought his fatal stomach cancer into existence.
Yes, it is difficult to distinguish where the
psychological factors
are and where they aren't. But recognizing that there
are some
diseases and conditions that just happen is very
important to those
of us who have to deal with them. Otherwise, the
implication is that
it is somehow our fault that our bodies have not
functioned ideally.
Bridget>>
__________________________________________________
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Tia Leschke
>Also, what about all the peopleIt probably is. I think it's important in these cases to be careful not to
>that have healed themselves of 'incurable' diseases by
>sheer mind power. I wonder if that's like what's being
>discussed here in reverse?
imply that anybody should be able to do the same with their illness.(I'm
not saying you're doing that at all.) I went to a new age church for a
while and the minister told a story about when his mother was dying of
cancer. This was before I was attending, and I never met his
mother. Apparently there were a number of people in the church who had
criticized both the minister and his mother for *not* being able to heal
her with thought. Sheesh! There's *so much* involved in any illness. It
can be awfully hard to sort out what's affecting what.
Tia
No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.
Eleanor Roosevelt
*********************************************
Tia Leschke
leschke@...
On Vancouver Island
Bridget
There is a big difference between saying:
equally strongly. Not that there can be no psychologically initiated
disorders - just that there are some that are purely out of our
control and not started by a thought, conscious or otherwise.
Bridget
>And saying:
> I believe that there is a psychological factor to all illnesses.
> Everything that happens first begins as a thought, whetherThe first I agree with wholeheartedly. The second I disagree with
> totally conscious or subconscious or some variation therein.
equally strongly. Not that there can be no psychologically initiated
disorders - just that there are some that are purely out of our
control and not started by a thought, conscious or otherwise.
Bridget
Tia Leschke
>It's just a different way of looking at the universe. Most people agree
>There is a big difference between saying:
> >
> > I believe that there is a psychological factor to all illnesses.
>
>And saying:
>
> > Everything that happens first begins as a thought, whether
> > totally conscious or subconscious or some variation therein.
>
>
>The first I agree with wholeheartedly. The second I disagree with
>equally strongly. Not that there can be no psychologically initiated
>disorders - just that there are some that are purely out of our
>control and not started by a thought, conscious or otherwise.
with the first statement. The second moves into the spiritual, unprovable
realm. It's true for the person who said it. It may well be true in
general, but we'll never know for sure.
If she had said that everything begins with a conscious thought, I'd also
have to disagree, but we never know exactly what our subconscious thoughts
are, or they'd be conscious.
Tia
No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.
Eleanor Roosevelt
*********************************************
Tia Leschke
leschke@...
On Vancouver Island
meghan anderson
I absolutely agree with both of these statements. I
suffer from migraines and though I know it's because
of an old whiplash injury, I also believe that the way
the injury symptoms manifest themselves (ie headache
as opposed to neck pain) has some sort of
psychological basis. I'm convinced this is true for me
because every method I have tried to cure the
headaches has failed (Reiki is the only thing that has
helped at all). And I have tried aromatherapy,
acupuncture, chiropractor, osteopath, acupressure,
homeopathy, herbal medicine, chinese medicine and
regular old doctors (and probably something else that
I've forgotten about)!
Meghan
<<I think it's important in these cases to be careful
not to
imply that anybody should be able to do the same with
their
illness.
There's *so much* involved in any illness.
It
can be awfully hard to sort out what's affecting what.
Tia>>
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suffer from migraines and though I know it's because
of an old whiplash injury, I also believe that the way
the injury symptoms manifest themselves (ie headache
as opposed to neck pain) has some sort of
psychological basis. I'm convinced this is true for me
because every method I have tried to cure the
headaches has failed (Reiki is the only thing that has
helped at all). And I have tried aromatherapy,
acupuncture, chiropractor, osteopath, acupressure,
homeopathy, herbal medicine, chinese medicine and
regular old doctors (and probably something else that
I've forgotten about)!
Meghan
<<I think it's important in these cases to be careful
not to
imply that anybody should be able to do the same with
their
illness.
There's *so much* involved in any illness.
It
can be awfully hard to sort out what's affecting what.
Tia>>
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Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just $8.95/month.
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