[email protected]

Hey all, Jacli here :)

Okay, here goes my plea for help: We are both
non-religious, I have
very strong pagan leanings. I am a very vehemently
inclined UNschooler.
My husband is an sweet, but slightly anal retentive
overachiever who insists on
workbook type curriculum so he can track our dd's progress.
We tried compromising
by getting the Life Pac series of workbooks (as recommended
by a homeschooling
friend in NH).

It's killing me. Every other paragraph lists a scripture
and this stuff is so jam packed
with dogma even the child is a-moanin! (For ex. in a
chapter on hygiene in the Health
book they spent 4 pages examining a chapter in Ephesians
that talks about obeying
your parents.)

I hope I have not offended anyone with this but the fact is
I'm not looking for bible
classes. I would gleefully go back to ordering from
Carolina, but dh is also right that
the cost is AMAZING. I just want something that helps her
focus on getting the job done, learning
about health, provoking discussions and more learning and
giving dh the workbook
type recording he is looking for. Is this just too tall an
order?

Any suggestions or thoughts? Anybody?

Thanks, Jacli

[email protected]

In a message dated 11/17/01 8:43:27 AM Mountain Standard Time,
cleopatra@... writes:


> My husband is an sweet, but slightly anal retentive
> overachiever who insists on
> workbook type curriculum so he can track our dd's progress.
>

Would he be willing to get a couple of easyish science publications (Science
News, I'm not sure what else is currently available with short articles and
lots of pictures) and go through those with her each month as they arrive and
do followup from websites or library? It would keep him from easily tracking
scores on tests, but I think that would be good. He'll probably come to
unschooling himself in a few months of that. Tell him ANY pre-packaged
science curriculum will be old by the time it's published, compared to
current publications.

I think there are some by-e-mail science experiments and news things you can
subscribe to (like by just giving them your e-mail address and being on the
list). And there are videos and videos with kits of some of the old science
shows (Bill Nye and I forget the other one). And there are geology field
trips and paleontology digs and all KINDS of real-life thing he could go and
do with her.

Maybe if these circumstances press him to see her learning the real way he
won't want the measured and sifted workbooks anymore.

Sandra


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Tami Labig-Duquette

There are pagan home/unschooling lists you can join for more support. I have
afew links if your interested. Also, clonara is anice enviroment for text
book type learning.
http://www.clonara.com
Indiana Tami

"You must be the change you wish to see in the world"
~Ghandi
Networking for Central Indiana unschoolers :)
http://communities.msn.com/ChildLedLearninginIndiana
Children Leading the Way!
http://[email protected]
http://[email protected]
Fun site for your kids or even you :)
http://www.neopets.com/refer.phtml?username=angel1bunny




----Original Message Follows----
From: cleopatra@...
Reply-To: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Help - Pagan Flavored Science/Health
Curriculum
Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2001 10:41:18 -0500

Hey all, Jacli here :)

Okay, here goes my plea for help: We are both
non-religious, I have
very strong pagan leanings. I am a very vehemently
inclined UNschooler.
My husband is an sweet, but slightly anal retentive
overachiever who insists on
workbook type curriculum so he can track our dd's progress.
We tried compromising
by getting the Life Pac series of workbooks (as recommended
by a homeschooling
friend in NH).

It's killing me. Every other paragraph lists a scripture
and this stuff is so jam packed
with dogma even the child is a-moanin! (For ex. in a
chapter on hygiene in the Health
book they spent 4 pages examining a chapter in Ephesians
that talks about obeying
your parents.)

I hope I have not offended anyone with this but the fact is
I'm not looking for bible
classes. I would gleefully go back to ordering from
Carolina, but dh is also right that
the cost is AMAZING. I just want something that helps her
focus on getting the job done, learning
about health, provoking discussions and more learning and
giving dh the workbook
type recording he is looking for. Is this just too tall an
order?

Any suggestions or thoughts? Anybody?

Thanks, Jacli



_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp

[email protected]

Jacki,
if you have an ACE educational store, or any such store, you can look thru
and pick out your own books, they have all the courses labeled, and the
booklets are in all price ranges. Also, just type in health curriculum in
the search area of your browser, or go to yahoo or google and type that in,
you will get a gazillion on line things, some you have to pay for, most are
free.
hope that helps,
Teresa


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Elsa Haas

Don’t you mean NON-textbook-type learning? Unless Clonlara has changed an
awful lot since I visited, it discourages the use of textbooks – that is,
Clonlara says textbooks might occasionally be useful to a certain individual
who wants to learn a specific thing, but they shouldn’t be slavishly or
automatically used. It’s up to the parents at the grade school level, and up
to the teen and parents jointly at the high school level, but I wouldn’t say
Clonlara’s really in favor of textbooks.

Do you mean that if this child is signed up with Clonlara, the staff there
might help the father ease his way gradually out of a dependence on
textbooks?

Confused,
Elsa Haas

-----Original Message-----
From: Tami Labig-Duquette [mailto:labigduquette@...]
Sent: Saturday, November 17, 2001 11:44 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Help - Pagan Flavored Science/Health
Curriculum

…Also, clonara is anice enviroment for text
book type learning.
http://www.clonara.com
Indiana Tami




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Tami Labig-Duquette

Wow :) I dont think I meant it quite that way, I meant if you have to have
the books (textbook/workbooks), then I feel (IMO) that clonara is the way I
would go. I am good at confusing anyone and everyone :) ask around.
Sorry about that :)
Indiana Tami
P.s. The fathers dependence on textbooks is his own hang up, again IMO, and
whether they could help him or not I wouldnt know. Maybe he could read John
Holt, it takes awhile to get used to unschooling if you havent done it all
along, we are still deschooling.

"You must be the change you wish to see in the world"
~Ghandi
Networking for Central Indiana unschoolers :)
http://communities.msn.com/ChildLedLearninginIndiana
Children Leading the Way!
http://[email protected]
http://[email protected]
Fun site for your kids or even you :)
http://www.neopets.com/refer.phtml?username=angel1bunny




----Original Message Follows----
From: "Elsa Haas" <ElsaHaas@...>
Reply-To: [email protected]
To: <[email protected]>
Subject: RE: [Unschooling-dotcom] Help - Pagan Flavored Science/Health
Curriculum
Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2001 19:11:23 -0500

Don�t you mean NON-textbook-type learning? Unless Clonlara has changed an
awful lot since I visited, it discourages the use of textbooks � that is,
Clonlara says textbooks might occasionally be useful to a certain individual
who wants to learn a specific thing, but they shouldn�t be slavishly or
automatically used. It�s up to the parents at the grade school level, and up
to the teen and parents jointly at the high school level, but I wouldn�t say
Clonlara�s really in favor of textbooks.

Do you mean that if this child is signed up with Clonlara, the staff there
might help the father ease his way gradually out of a dependence on
textbooks?

Confused,
Elsa Haas

-----Original Message-----
From: Tami Labig-Duquette [mailto:labigduquette@...]
Sent: Saturday, November 17, 2001 11:44 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Help - Pagan Flavored Science/Health
Curriculum

�Also, clonara is anice enviroment for text
book type learning.
http://www.clonara.com
Indiana Tami




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp

Elsa Haas

Does your husband want your daughter to learn things, or does he want her to
“get the job done” (that is, learn to obey whoever it is who’s in charge at
the moment)? Two separate things!

If the former, ask him to read John Holt’s How Children Fail, which shows
how “the program” interferes with true intellectual development.

If the latter, I don’t know what to say. Maybe Stanley Milgram’s Obedience
to Authority, which describes the horrifying results of experiments used to
see how far people will go in obeying, would help him start to question this
goal. But it’s a major change in thinking. It’s hard to change anybody’s
thinking on something so profound.

You don’t say how old your daughter is, so I don’t know whether it might
help to enlist her in calming her dad’s fears. It could be a kind of “secret
trick”, something to whisper with her about. My husband suggested something
like this for a friend of ours whose husband is worried that their kids,
homeschooling for the second year after having been schooled, aren’t
learning “enough”. My husband said, “Okay, so you take a children’s
encyclopedia like the Dorling Kindersley ones, and every day each kid finds
one thing in it to impress their father with when he gets home from work.”
One single fact, like, “You know what they do with guinea pigs in Peru? They
eat them!” Or, “Do you know how many times your blood vessels could go
between the Earth and the moon if they were all straightened out?” (I’m
making this one up.) This is trivia, but it might reassure the guy. If your
daughter could see it as a game (Impress Daddy, or Stump Daddy) - or even as
a dumb chore for helping out her poor father who was damaged by being in
school for too long - she might go along with it, as a stop-gap measure
until her own interests take over and she really does want to tell him
stuff. It’s a pity to have to do this sort of thing, but maybe it’s still
better than school.

There’s the age question, again, but vets’ offices, zoos, etc., are great
places to volunteer.

Someone mentioned science kits you can have sent to you monthly in the mail.
When I was a kid we were subscribed to Things Of Science – don’t know
whether it still exists.

Why you’d want to ruin anything as engrossing and omnipresent as health,
nature and science with workbooks is beyond me. For real books, you might
have a look at the F.U.N. Books website. That’s the company that bought out
the Holt Associates (Growing Without Schooling) book business. Holt
Associates used to sell good nature and science books – I’m thinking of the
Brown Paper Bag Series, for one – so there might still be a good selection
there. There were some coloring books on subjects like human anatomy at one
time, too. They’re used in college courses, but some kids like them. (This
is about as workbooky as I’m willing to get.) You can access F.U.N. through
the Holt Assoc. website at http://www.holtgws.com <http://www.holtgws.com/>
.

I have found enormous numbers of great science books at library sales (real
books, though – not textbooks or workbooks). It sounds like cost is a
consideration for you. I get books for 25 to 50 cents a piece at these
sales. You might have to be in a city, though, to find sales like these.

Magazines for younger kids: Ranger Rick, Cricket, National Geographic World
(don’t know whether that’s still published). Sometimes they have puzzles in
them that might satisfy your husband somewhat. Ask a librarian. Sometimes
they’ll subscribe to a mag on request, so that you can borrow it.

Get some good field guides and go identify trees and beetles!

Elsa Haas

-----Original Message-----
From: cleopatra@...
[mailto:cleopatra@...]
Sent: Saturday, November 17, 2001 10:41 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Help - Pagan Flavored Science/Health
Curriculum

Hey all, Jacli here :)

Okay, here goes my plea for help: We are both
non-religious, I have
very strong pagan leanings. I am a very vehemently
inclined UNschooler.
My husband is an sweet, but slightly anal retentive
overachiever who insists on
workbook type curriculum so he can track our dd's progress.
We tried compromising
by getting the Life Pac series of workbooks (as recommended
by a homeschooling
friend in NH).

It's killing me. Every other paragraph lists a scripture
and this stuff is so jam packed
with dogma even the child is a-moanin! (For ex. in a
chapter on hygiene in the Health
book they spent 4 pages examining a chapter in Ephesians
that talks about obeying
your parents.)

I hope I have not offended anyone with this but the fact is
I'm not looking for bible
classes. I would gleefully go back to ordering from
Carolina, but dh is also right that
the cost is AMAZING. I just want something that helps her
focus on getting the job done, learning
about health, provoking discussions and more learning and
giving dh the workbook
type recording he is looking for. Is this just too tall an
order?

Any suggestions or thoughts? Anybody?

Thanks, Jacli




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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

--- In Unschooling-dotcom@y..., "Tami Labig-Duquette"
<labigduquette@h...> wrote:

> Also, clonara is anice enviroment for text book type learning.
> http://www.clonara.com
> Indiana Tami

Tami? Am I understanding you as saying that Clonlara is a good place
for textbook type learning? That has not been my experience or
understanding, that's why I ask. I've always known Clonlara to
support whatever approach you wish to use, unschooling or something
more traditional. Do you see it differently? Or am I misunderstanding
you?

in peace,

Chris O'Connor

Tami Labig-Duquette

Its a misunderstanding :) I didnt mean it that way. I explained in an
earlier post, but what I meant was.....If one were to choose textbook type
learning (for whatever reason) then clonara would be the way to go. (IMO).
Indiana Tami

"You must be the change you wish to see in the world"
~Ghandi
Networking for Central Indiana unschoolers :)
http://communities.msn.com/ChildLedLearninginIndiana
Children Leading the Way!
http://[email protected]
Fun site for your kids or even you :)
http://www.neopets.com/refer.phtml?username=angel1bunny




----Original Message Follows----
From: chrisoco@...
Reply-To: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] Clonlara Question (was Re: Help - Pagan
Flavored Science/Health Curriculum)
Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 04:15:04 -0000

--- In Unschooling-dotcom@y..., "Tami Labig-Duquette"
<labigduquette@h...> wrote:

> Also, clonara is anice enviroment for text book type learning.
> http://www.clonara.com
> Indiana Tami

Tami? Am I understanding you as saying that Clonlara is a good place
for textbook type learning? That has not been my experience or
understanding, that's why I ask. I've always known Clonlara to
support whatever approach you wish to use, unschooling or something
more traditional. Do you see it differently? Or am I misunderstanding
you?

in peace,

Chris O'Connor



_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp

[email protected]

--- In Unschooling-dotcom@y..., "Tami Labig-Duquette"
<labigduquette@h...> wrote:

> Wow :) I dont think I meant it quite that way, I meant if you
> have to have the books (textbook/workbooks), then I feel (IMO)
> that clonara is the way I would go. I am good at confusing
> anyone and everyone :) ask around.
> Sorry about that :)

Thanks for clarifying, Tami. Sorry to reply before I had gotten all
the way through my e-mails. If I "hear" you correctly, you are saying
that Clonlara might be able to help the Dad who feels the need for
textbooks and documentation? I can see that as they would
apply "credit" for the work and give it the "authority" he seems to
need. And in the meantime, Mom can still feel that she is following a
more relaxed atmosphere while getting back up from an "authority".

Having such a supportive, relaxed husband is such a blessing.... I'll
have to remember to thank mine.

in peace,

Chris O'Connor

[email protected]

Hey Leslie, Jacli here :)
Thanks for the tip. What is Kumon and where can I learn
more about it?
Take care, Jacli

>Message: 14
> Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2001 11:25:11 -0500
> From: "Leslie" <leslie@...>
>Subject: Re: Help - Pagan Flavored Science/Health
Curriculum
>
>I've always been basically an un-schooler but with my
first I was more
>worried about not giving him the information he might
need. To compromise
>I insisted that he keep a daily journal and we did the
Kumon math program.
>When he decided he wanted to go to school at 14, grade 9
level, he had no
>problem. He lasted for 20 credits worth, but now that he
has enough
>friends, he'd rather work for money.
>Leslie
>
>

[email protected]

Hey all, Jacli here :)
Just wanted to thankyou for the comments.
I have to say I have been more than a
little frustrated with hubby dearest' insistence on
textbooks.
Some days he really gets what we're doing and then...Then
he'll come home
and announce that he is really ,really worried about dd and

why isn't she at the same level as he was at that age? Or
why isn't
she doing algebra? Or when are we gonna stop all this
touchy feely stuff and
do some real school work? ... Stuff like that.
On one hand I KNOW that he has experienced only public and
ivy league stuff and hasn't
had the benefit of mixed experiences like I did. At the
same time I FEEL that he should
know better anyway - I mean if he was miserable then why
would he expect that she would go to school and be
ecstatic? He was forced to use textbooks and so forth and
he knows the truth of what you can actually get out of them
(not much) so why force that on her? !!!

At the same time I KNOW he knows that she is one smart
cookie and is soo much more advanced than the average
conventionally schooled child, in so many ways. She didn't
start reading until 2 years ago but she is already reading
at 10th grade level now, for instance. Reading and
comprehending. She is a bright, articulate, polite and
well adjusted little girl, who may not have the easiest
time with fractions or multiplication tables but can hold
her own discussing finance and free trade with anyone.

I feel like hey, she'll get around to that other stuff when
its time for her to and it is not fair or even decent to
push and shove her with the usual methods. At the same
time
he really does pay the lion share for her school work and
he IS her father so I feel like I owe it to him to respect
his feelings and input. I guess I'm fairly conflicted, eh?


Anyway I just wanted to say thankyou to everybody that
answered my plea and also say Keep it Coming!
Ooh - I recently signed up for the Discovery Channel book
club (following up on a hint from Dan) which has some
really great (albeit EXPEN$IVE) stuff. If anyone wants
details just let me know.

Thanks Jacli :)



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]