Deschooling--TV and Video Limits?
Lori
I think its important to remember that as parents, we
*know* what is best for our individual children. And
there are many times we do need to impose our limits,
before they come to the realization of the effects of
certain behaviors, on their own.
There are some lessons that my children are not going
to learn on their own, plain and simple. And there are
others that I will sit back and watch the process
unfold, see where it goes. Its individual to the
family, where that dividing line is, and I respect
others instincts to know what that is for themselves.
=====
I have decided to stick with love. Hate is too great a
burden to bear.--
Martin Luther King, Jr.
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
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*know* what is best for our individual children. And
there are many times we do need to impose our limits,
before they come to the realization of the effects of
certain behaviors, on their own.
There are some lessons that my children are not going
to learn on their own, plain and simple. And there are
others that I will sit back and watch the process
unfold, see where it goes. Its individual to the
family, where that dividing line is, and I respect
others instincts to know what that is for themselves.
=====
I have decided to stick with love. Hate is too great a
burden to bear.--
Martin Luther King, Jr.
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Find a job, post your resume.
http://careers.yahoo.com
[email protected]
On Sun, 11 Nov 2001 08:51:09 -0800 (PST) Lori <livelovenlearn@...>
writes:
best for my individual child, my own experiences and likes and dislikes
get in the way, as do the ithings I've read and heard and been told...
I've seen people do things that I think are horrible to their kids
because they "know" it's best for that kid.
It is harder, I think, to have faith that your kids know what is best
better than you do, but I do try to believe this. If not, I'd sit her
down with the Miquon workbooks, which just seem like they would appeal to
her since she's so proficient with logic and mathematical reasoning...
and I'd have her do some more story-writing, or at least dictate stories,
because she tells such good ones and I think she'd enjoy writing them
down if she had a little more practice... there are all sotrts of things
like that. But I don't do these things, because I truly don't know what's
best for her, that's her job, and she's doing fine with it. She's reading
Arthur Conan Doyle right now, and she just got an old manual typewriter
for $2 at a thrift store because she said she liked typewriters and not
computers or hand-writing... so Tuesday we'll buy a ribbon and see what
happens next... and I enjoy the journey.
Daron
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writes:
> I think its important to remember that as parents, weI don't think this is true at all. Often, when I try to decide what's
> *know* what is best for our individual children.
best for my individual child, my own experiences and likes and dislikes
get in the way, as do the ithings I've read and heard and been told...
I've seen people do things that I think are horrible to their kids
because they "know" it's best for that kid.
It is harder, I think, to have faith that your kids know what is best
better than you do, but I do try to believe this. If not, I'd sit her
down with the Miquon workbooks, which just seem like they would appeal to
her since she's so proficient with logic and mathematical reasoning...
and I'd have her do some more story-writing, or at least dictate stories,
because she tells such good ones and I think she'd enjoy writing them
down if she had a little more practice... there are all sotrts of things
like that. But I don't do these things, because I truly don't know what's
best for her, that's her job, and she's doing fine with it. She's reading
Arthur Conan Doyle right now, and she just got an old manual typewriter
for $2 at a thrift store because she said she liked typewriters and not
computers or hand-writing... so Tuesday we'll buy a ribbon and see what
happens next... and I enjoy the journey.
Daron
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Bonnie M. Paglialunga
But you just proved the point that you said you disagreed with. You obviously understand that this is what is better for your daughter. Just like another person would understanding that limiting or not would best suit the child's needs. It's all a matter of individualism. Bonnie
----- Original Message -----
From: freeform@...
To: [email protected]
Cc: [email protected]
Sent: Sunday, November 11, 2001 12:32 PM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Deschooling--TV and Video Limits?
On Sun, 11 Nov 2001 08:51:09 -0800 (PST) Lori <livelovenlearn@...>
writes:
> I think its important to remember that as parents, we
> *know* what is best for our individual children.
I don't think this is true at all. Often, when I try to decide what's
best for my individual child, my own experiences and likes and dislikes
get in the way, as do the ithings I've read and heard and been told...
I've seen people do things that I think are horrible to their kids
because they "know" it's best for that kid.
It is harder, I think, to have faith that your kids know what is best
better than you do, but I do try to believe this. If not, I'd sit her
down with the Miquon workbooks, which just seem like they would appeal to
her since she's so proficient with logic and mathematical reasoning...
and I'd have her do some more story-writing, or at least dictate stories,
because she tells such good ones and I think she'd enjoy writing them
down if she had a little more practice... there are all sotrts of things
like that. But I don't do these things, because I truly don't know what's
best for her, that's her job, and she's doing fine with it. She's reading
Arthur Conan Doyle right now, and she just got an old manual typewriter
for $2 at a thrift store because she said she liked typewriters and not
computers or hand-writing... so Tuesday we'll buy a ribbon and see what
happens next... and I enjoy the journey.
Daron
________________________________________________________________
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On Sun, 11 Nov 2001 15:49:41 -0500 "Bonnie M. Paglialunga"
<bpaglial@...> writes:
her do things or not do things, then you're right. If I say I think she
knows best, then you say I must know best so if I think that then I must
be right, and you're right again.
My head spins, but maybe it's easier to take oit away from the personal,
and say I think the child knows best...
Dar
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<bpaglial@...> writes:
> But you just proved the point that you said you disagreed with. YouBut you're setting up a Catch-22 here. If I say I know best and so I make
> obviously understand that this is what is better for your daughter.
> Just like another person would understanding that limiting or not
> would best suit the child's needs. It's all a matter of
> individualism. Bonnie
her do things or not do things, then you're right. If I say I think she
knows best, then you say I must know best so if I think that then I must
be right, and you're right again.
My head spins, but maybe it's easier to take oit away from the personal,
and say I think the child knows best...
Dar
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[email protected]
> My head spins, but maybe it's easier to take oit away from theI agree. It was proved to me so many times. When my son was younger, I
> personal,
> and say I think the child knows best...
>
> Dar
sometimes had difficulty not setting limits for him, but I resisted the
temptation. It's not even something I think about now, because I've
seen, over and over, that he knows what's right for him.
A really hard thing for me was worrying about what everyone else would
think. Maybe some of you were more secure, but I didn't want anyone to
think I was a bad mother. The video game issue was probably the hardest
because my sil was here when the Playstation arrived. She would say "
Are you STILL playing that?" and "Are you just going to let him sit
there all day?" Well, yes, I did, and he played all day, every day, for
days and days, until HE decided HE was finished and wanted to move on to
something else. People have raised their eyebrows more than once in our
direction about how much TV he can watch, what he can watch, no bed
times, etc. But I hear constantly about what an exceptional child he is
and how smart he is. Well, he's smart because no one's stomping him
down, telling him constantly by controlling him, that he's NOT smart
enough to make his own choices. IMO.
I've seen it with another boy too. A neighbor boy who is always in
trouble at school and was considered such a handful other neighbors even
warned me about him. He loves coming to our house because he can do
whatever he wants. And you know what? He doesn't do anything horrible.
He's a really fun kid.
His folks used to lock him out of his house too, by the way. When I
figured out what was going on, I said, why don't you just tell him he
can come to my house after school? She said they locked him out because
he ate everything in the house and then wouldn't eat any dinner.
I told her I'd have something nutritious for him, then if he snacked, it
wouldn't be a big deal. They stopped locking him out. And now if he's
home by himself he knows he can call me if he needs something. Usually
he just comes over here, and we're glad to see him. At our house he is
NOT the "monster" he is at school, and I believe it's because he knows we
like and respect him, and believe he's a good person.
Deb L
Bridget E Coffman
Daron,
Look at it this way:
You believe your child knows what she needs to eat everyday and you let
her choose what and how much. She is fine and healthy but chooses to eat
things you detest - say Peanut butter and Garlic sandwiches. All is well
though and you can trust her to make her own choices because they are not
harming her and you have disassociated the taste from the health issue.
Now, suppose you daughter decides to eat nothing but celery. All celery
ever day. Absolutely nothing else. She has lost loads of weight and is
unhealthy. Can you still let her make her own choices regarding food?
When exactly is the right time to step in and do something?
The same holds true for every parenting issue. We need to learn and
observe and figure out when the right time to step in is. But no one can
say that there is NEVER a time to step in with any child. I do think
many people step in on too many issues because they can't disassociate
their own wants and needs from the childs wants and needs. But that does
not mean that it is NEVER right to step in.
Bridget
In three words I can sum up everything I've learned about life: it
goes on.
- Robert Frost
Look at it this way:
You believe your child knows what she needs to eat everyday and you let
her choose what and how much. She is fine and healthy but chooses to eat
things you detest - say Peanut butter and Garlic sandwiches. All is well
though and you can trust her to make her own choices because they are not
harming her and you have disassociated the taste from the health issue.
Now, suppose you daughter decides to eat nothing but celery. All celery
ever day. Absolutely nothing else. She has lost loads of weight and is
unhealthy. Can you still let her make her own choices regarding food?
When exactly is the right time to step in and do something?
The same holds true for every parenting issue. We need to learn and
observe and figure out when the right time to step in is. But no one can
say that there is NEVER a time to step in with any child. I do think
many people step in on too many issues because they can't disassociate
their own wants and needs from the childs wants and needs. But that does
not mean that it is NEVER right to step in.
Bridget
> Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2001 17:25:07 -0700^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> From: freeform@...
> Subject: Re: Deschooling--TV and Video Limits?
>
>
>
> On Sun, 11 Nov 2001 15:49:41 -0500 "Bonnie M. Paglialunga"
> <bpaglial@...> writes:
> > But you just proved the point that you said you disagreed with.
> You
> > obviously understand that this is what is better for your
> daughter.
> > Just like another person would understanding that limiting or not
> > would best suit the child's needs. It's all a matter of
> > individualism. Bonnie
>
> But you're setting up a Catch-22 here. If I say I know best and so I
> make
> her do things or not do things, then you're right. If I say I think
> she
> knows best, then you say I must know best so if I think that then I
> must
> be right, and you're right again.
>
> My head spins, but maybe it's easier to take oit away from the
> personal,
> and say I think the child knows best...
>
> Dar
In three words I can sum up everything I've learned about life: it
goes on.
- Robert Frost
[email protected]
In a message dated 11/12/01 8:05:37 AM, rumpleteasermom@... writes:
<< Now, suppose you daughter decides to eat nothing but celery. All celery
ever day. Absolutely nothing else. She has lost loads of weight and is
unhealthy. >>
Has anyone ever actually done that?
I don't think so.
Just as no one has actually every been observed in the behavior so many
parents claim they know will happen: "He would play video games all day
every day if I let him."
Those who don't let them try it insist that by refusing, they've prevented
that behavior.
Those who have let them have the freedom to prove that it could happen have
never produced and all-day-every-day video game player.
And so I think the never-would-stop video player and the all-celery-diet girl
are both straw men.
Sandra
"Everything counts."
http://expage.com/SandraDoddArticles
http://expage.com/SandraDodd
<< Now, suppose you daughter decides to eat nothing but celery. All celery
ever day. Absolutely nothing else. She has lost loads of weight and is
unhealthy. >>
Has anyone ever actually done that?
I don't think so.
Just as no one has actually every been observed in the behavior so many
parents claim they know will happen: "He would play video games all day
every day if I let him."
Those who don't let them try it insist that by refusing, they've prevented
that behavior.
Those who have let them have the freedom to prove that it could happen have
never produced and all-day-every-day video game player.
And so I think the never-would-stop video player and the all-celery-diet girl
are both straw men.
Sandra
"Everything counts."
http://expage.com/SandraDoddArticles
http://expage.com/SandraDodd
Tia Leschke
>What if the girl were anorexic? Would you step in then? I know there are
>And so I think the never-would-stop video player and the all-celery-diet girl
>are both straw men.
huge other issues happening in anorexia, but it does happen.
Tia
Tia Leschke leschke@...
On Vancouver Island
**************************************************************************
It is the answers which separate us, the questions which unite us. - Janice
Levy
[email protected]
On Mon, 12 Nov 2001 08:07:23 -0800 Tia Leschke <leschke@...>
writes:
besides food, so I can't see a child who had been allowed to make her own
decisions becoming anorexic. Anorexia isn't about food, it's about
control.
Also, I think maybe we need to better define "stepping in". I do say
things like, "It's 10 o'clock right now and you have a soccer game
tomorrow at 8... you might want to try to go to bed a little earlier
than usual tonight so you're really tired at the game." I don't say
things like, "Your soccer game is at 8, so you have to be in bed by 11
tonight." Sometimes she goes to bed at 11, sometimes she's up until 1,
and tired the next morning.
Dar, who really hates 8 am soccer games
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writes:
> >And so I think the never-would-stop video player and theall-celery-diet girl
> >are both straw men.Typically anorexics feel like they can't control anything in their lives
>
> What if the girl were anorexic? Would you step in then? I know
> there are huge other issues happening in anorexia, but it does happen.
besides food, so I can't see a child who had been allowed to make her own
decisions becoming anorexic. Anorexia isn't about food, it's about
control.
Also, I think maybe we need to better define "stepping in". I do say
things like, "It's 10 o'clock right now and you have a soccer game
tomorrow at 8... you might want to try to go to bed a little earlier
than usual tonight so you're really tired at the game." I don't say
things like, "Your soccer game is at 8, so you have to be in bed by 11
tonight." Sometimes she goes to bed at 11, sometimes she's up until 1,
and tired the next morning.
Dar, who really hates 8 am soccer games
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Bridget E Coffman
Sandra,
Ever hear of a little known disorder called ANOREXIA?
Bridget
In three words I can sum up everything I've learned about life: it
goes on.
- Robert Frost
Ever hear of a little known disorder called ANOREXIA?
Bridget
> Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 10:41:53 EST^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> From: SandraDodd@...
> Subject: Re: Deschooling--TV and Video Limits?
>
>
> In a message dated 11/12/01 8:05:37 AM, rumpleteasermom@...
> writes:
>
> << Now, suppose you daughter decides to eat nothing but celery. All
> celery
> ever day. Absolutely nothing else. She has lost loads of weight
> and is
> unhealthy. >>
>
> Has anyone ever actually done that?
>
> I don't think so.
>
> Just as no one has actually every been observed in the behavior so
> many
> parents claim they know will happen: "He would play video games all
> day
> every day if I let him."
>
> Those who don't let them try it insist that by refusing, they've
> prevented
> that behavior.
>
> Those who have let them have the freedom to prove that it could
> happen have
> never produced and all-day-every-day video game player.
>
> And so I think the never-would-stop video player and the
> all-celery-diet girl
> are both straw men.
>
In three words I can sum up everything I've learned about life: it
goes on.
- Robert Frost
[email protected]
In a message dated 11/12/01 1:27:21 PM, rumpleteasermom@... writes:
<< Ever hear of a little known disorder called ANOREXIA?
But I don't think you've ever heard of a homeschooled girl who went to eating
all CELERY.
Sandra
"Everything counts."
http://expage.com/SandraDoddArticles
http://expage.com/SandraDodd
<< Ever hear of a little known disorder called ANOREXIA?
>>Yes.
But I don't think you've ever heard of a homeschooled girl who went to eating
all CELERY.
Sandra
"Everything counts."
http://expage.com/SandraDoddArticles
http://expage.com/SandraDodd
[email protected]
<< What if the girl were anorexic? Would you step in then? I know there are
huge other issues happening in anorexia, but it does happen. >>
Does anyone here believe anorexia is a likely or possible result of allowing
children a lot of freedom in their lives? Of allowing them to eat the foods
they want?
Anorexia is not just a random choice in a child's life.
I've seen kids just eat starches for a while, or only drink one drink for a
couple of years, but an all-celery diet was made up as a booga-booga big
example which has nothing to do with any real unschoolers. What fantasy,
fictitious unschoolers MIGHT do is really honestly of no concern to me. I'd
much rather we spend our energy discussing what IS happening, and what HAS
happened in our lives than "What if dogs could fly? What if they could fly
and use weapons? What if they could fly and feed our children nothing but
celery and use their weapons to make them eat it?"
WHAT IF a child watched the same episode of Gilligan's Island 18 hours a day?
Well it's not happening, and I doubt anyone knows of anything remotely
similar. But if I were to use that to scare people away from allowing kids
some freedom I wouldn't be showing any critical thinking, it wouldn't be
helpful, and it would be dishonest for me to make up some wild extreme to
discredit people who are discussing real issues.
Sandra
Sandra
"Everything counts."
http://expage.com/SandraDoddArticles
http://expage.com/SandraDodd
huge other issues happening in anorexia, but it does happen. >>
Does anyone here believe anorexia is a likely or possible result of allowing
children a lot of freedom in their lives? Of allowing them to eat the foods
they want?
Anorexia is not just a random choice in a child's life.
I've seen kids just eat starches for a while, or only drink one drink for a
couple of years, but an all-celery diet was made up as a booga-booga big
example which has nothing to do with any real unschoolers. What fantasy,
fictitious unschoolers MIGHT do is really honestly of no concern to me. I'd
much rather we spend our energy discussing what IS happening, and what HAS
happened in our lives than "What if dogs could fly? What if they could fly
and use weapons? What if they could fly and feed our children nothing but
celery and use their weapons to make them eat it?"
WHAT IF a child watched the same episode of Gilligan's Island 18 hours a day?
Well it's not happening, and I doubt anyone knows of anything remotely
similar. But if I were to use that to scare people away from allowing kids
some freedom I wouldn't be showing any critical thinking, it wouldn't be
helpful, and it would be dishonest for me to make up some wild extreme to
discredit people who are discussing real issues.
Sandra
Sandra
"Everything counts."
http://expage.com/SandraDoddArticles
http://expage.com/SandraDodd
Lynda
I haven't heard of a homeschooler that only ate celery either. But then I
doubt that if it happened they would exactly being advertising it.
I did, however, hear of one that ate only celery with peanut butter. She
ended up weighing less than 85 pounds on a 5'8" frame. Not secondhand
knowledge. It was my cousin's daughter who almost killed herself.
It was through my cousin that I originally heard the term "unschooling."
We'd never heard a name put to it because we, quite frankly, could have
cared less how other folks were raising their kids or "educating" them. She
insisted (that would be past tense) that children are quite capable of
making all decisions on their own, that they should learn from their
mistakes and that a child would never put themselves into harms way. That
all, as she put it "negative behaviors" would be outgrown and no harm would
come from them learning from their mistakes. She "was" a 100% died in the
wool unschooler complete with family bed, home births, all the television
and video games they want, no limits on anything, etc., etc., etc.
She has hence decided that children do not always know what is best for them
and that all situations must be looked at on an individual basis.
Lynda
doubt that if it happened they would exactly being advertising it.
I did, however, hear of one that ate only celery with peanut butter. She
ended up weighing less than 85 pounds on a 5'8" frame. Not secondhand
knowledge. It was my cousin's daughter who almost killed herself.
It was through my cousin that I originally heard the term "unschooling."
We'd never heard a name put to it because we, quite frankly, could have
cared less how other folks were raising their kids or "educating" them. She
insisted (that would be past tense) that children are quite capable of
making all decisions on their own, that they should learn from their
mistakes and that a child would never put themselves into harms way. That
all, as she put it "negative behaviors" would be outgrown and no harm would
come from them learning from their mistakes. She "was" a 100% died in the
wool unschooler complete with family bed, home births, all the television
and video games they want, no limits on anything, etc., etc., etc.
She has hence decided that children do not always know what is best for them
and that all situations must be looked at on an individual basis.
Lynda
----- Original Message -----
From: <SandraDodd@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, November 12, 2001 12:33 PM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Deschooling--TV and Video Limits?
>
> In a message dated 11/12/01 1:27:21 PM, rumpleteasermom@... writes:
>
> << Ever hear of a little known disorder called ANOREXIA?
> >>
>
> Yes.
>
> But I don't think you've ever heard of a homeschooled girl who went to
eating
> all CELERY.
>
> Sandra
>
> "Everything counts."
> http://expage.com/SandraDoddArticles
> http://expage.com/SandraDodd
>
> Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
> Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com
>
> To unsubscribe, set preferences, or read archives:
> http://www.egroups.com/group/Unschooling-dotcom
>
> Another great list sponsored by Home Education Magazine!
> http://www.home-ed-magazine.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
LisaBugg
> Now, suppose you daughter decides to eat nothing but celery. All celeryThis is the response of a normal healthy child. This child would have many
> ever day. Absolutely nothing else. She has lost loads of weight and is
> unhealthy.
underlying issues that also would be very evident.
LisaBugg
----- Original Message -----
From: "LisaBugg" <LisaBugg@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, November 12, 2001 5:07 PM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Deschooling--TV and Video Limits?
>
> > Now, suppose you daughter decides to eat nothing but celery. All celery
> > ever day. Absolutely nothing else. She has lost loads of weight and is
> > unhealthy.
>
> This is the response of a normal healthy child. This child would have many
> underlying issues that also would be very evident.
ACK, this is NOT the response of normal, healthy child. To move to only
eating celery would be indicitive of much greater underlying problems. I
know that some are speaking for the experience of having children who do not
fit the *norms*, that have social, mental and emotional challenges.
[email protected]
As far as not controlling what your children eat, I have a different
perspective. I have two sons with food allergies. My four year old
is allergic to peanuts, wheat, and milk. I have a kit that I carry
with me that I can use in case he accidentally eats something with
peanuts in it and has an anaphylactic reaction. When we go out to
eat, I ask if they fry their food in peanut oil. If they do, he's
not allowed to have it. I went through his trick or treat candy and
read labels and took out everything that had peanuts in it. There is
nothing anyone could say to convince me to allow my son to eat a
peanut butter sandwich! I also know that if we omit milk from his
diet now, we may be able to keep him from developing asthma. If it's
been a few weeks since he's had milk products and there's a special
occasion (ie, birthday cake or pizza at a birthday party), I will let
him have some, but then have to watch that he doesn't get any milk
for at least another week. If he does, he will break out with
exzema. When he was a baby he spit up so much that he dropped on the
growth charts because I was nursing him and I drank milk. When he
was a toddler, he had exzema that he would scratch at night and there
would be blood on the sheets from it the next morning.
My two year old is also allergic to milk.
One thing that I've learned about food allergies is that people tend
to crave what they're allergic to. I also believe that kids are
allergic to foods more often than people realize. You should always
suspect food allergies with exzema, chronic ear infections, colic,
babies spitting up excessively, asthma, acne, etc.
You won't be seeing me allowing my kids to control their diet any
time soon.
Sheila
perspective. I have two sons with food allergies. My four year old
is allergic to peanuts, wheat, and milk. I have a kit that I carry
with me that I can use in case he accidentally eats something with
peanuts in it and has an anaphylactic reaction. When we go out to
eat, I ask if they fry their food in peanut oil. If they do, he's
not allowed to have it. I went through his trick or treat candy and
read labels and took out everything that had peanuts in it. There is
nothing anyone could say to convince me to allow my son to eat a
peanut butter sandwich! I also know that if we omit milk from his
diet now, we may be able to keep him from developing asthma. If it's
been a few weeks since he's had milk products and there's a special
occasion (ie, birthday cake or pizza at a birthday party), I will let
him have some, but then have to watch that he doesn't get any milk
for at least another week. If he does, he will break out with
exzema. When he was a baby he spit up so much that he dropped on the
growth charts because I was nursing him and I drank milk. When he
was a toddler, he had exzema that he would scratch at night and there
would be blood on the sheets from it the next morning.
My two year old is also allergic to milk.
One thing that I've learned about food allergies is that people tend
to crave what they're allergic to. I also believe that kids are
allergic to foods more often than people realize. You should always
suspect food allergies with exzema, chronic ear infections, colic,
babies spitting up excessively, asthma, acne, etc.
You won't be seeing me allowing my kids to control their diet any
time soon.
Sheila
> > > Now, suppose you daughter decides to eat nothing but celery.All celery
> > > ever day. Absolutely nothing else. She has lost loads ofweight and is
> > > unhealthy.have many
> >
> > This is the response of a normal healthy child. This child would
> > underlying issues that also would be very evident.only
>
> ACK, this is NOT the response of normal, healthy child. To move to
> eating celery would be indicitive of much greater underlyingproblems. I
> know that some are speaking for the experience of having childrenwho do not
> fit the *norms*, that have social, mental and emotional challenges.
[email protected]
You don't want your children to learn the right way to eat after
they've contracted diabetes because skittles and cupcakes are much
more appealing to them than veggies.
You don't want your children drinking large amounts of caffeine and
then having them regret it when they are married and are suffering
from infertility.
You don't want them to not get enough fiber and then develop colon
cancer later in life.
And I don't allow my daughter to drink non-organic milk, because I
believe the hormones in our milk are responsible for many girls
entering puberty at too early of an age.
And then there's all the prepared food with MSG in it--is it really
good for anyone to consume neuro-toxins?
Food is so much more than something to fil our bellies. Food is
preventative medicine.
Sheila
they've contracted diabetes because skittles and cupcakes are much
more appealing to them than veggies.
You don't want your children drinking large amounts of caffeine and
then having them regret it when they are married and are suffering
from infertility.
You don't want them to not get enough fiber and then develop colon
cancer later in life.
And I don't allow my daughter to drink non-organic milk, because I
believe the hormones in our milk are responsible for many girls
entering puberty at too early of an age.
And then there's all the prepared food with MSG in it--is it really
good for anyone to consume neuro-toxins?
Food is so much more than something to fil our bellies. Food is
preventative medicine.
Sheila
Tia Leschke
>Huh? There have been times in my life that I might have wished that my
>
> You don't want your children drinking large amounts of caffeine and
>then having them regret it when they are married and are suffering
>from infertility.
caffeine habit would cause infertility.
> And I don't allow my daughter to drink non-organic milk, because IInteresting. I had an early puberty, and they weren't putting hormones
>believe the hormones in our milk are responsible for many girls
>entering puberty at too early of an age.
into the cows when I was a child in the 50's.
Tia
Tia Leschke leschke@...
On Vancouver Island
**************************************************************************
It is the answers which separate us, the questions which unite us. - Janice
Levy
[email protected]
Your child might very well want to get pregnant and, as someone who
does have a hard time getting pregnant, it's not fun to want to have
another baby and not be able to conceive.
Sheila
does have a hard time getting pregnant, it's not fun to want to have
another baby and not be able to conceive.
Sheila
> Huh? There have been times in my life that I might have wishedthat my
> caffeine habit would cause infertility.
Diane
I was thinking about this, because when I was a kid in the 60s there was a girl
in my 2nd grade class who really needed a bra.
:-) Diane
in my 2nd grade class who really needed a bra.
:-) Diane
>
> > And I don't allow my daughter to drink non-organic milk, because I
> >believe the hormones in our milk are responsible for many girls
> >entering puberty at too early of an age.
>
> Interesting. I had an early puberty, and they weren't putting hormones
> into the cows when I was a child in the 50's.
> Tia
>
> Tia Leschke leschke@...
> On Vancouver Island
> **************************************************************************
> It is the answers which separate us, the questions which unite us. - Janice
> Levy
[email protected]
In a message dated 11/12/01 6:09:30 PM, sheran@... writes:
<< You don't want your children to learn the right way to eat after
they've contracted diabetes because skittles and cupcakes are much
more appealing to them than veggies. >>
But they're NOT.
My kids don't eat a bunch of junk, given the choice. The stuff my kids
request from the store is more often than not fruit and vegetables. They
turn down candy. But that couldn't have happened if they hadn't had choices
all along.
It's as hard to get people to consider this as it is to get elementary school
teachers to consider that kids could learn to read without being taught.
Just because it doesn't fit the prevailing model doesn't mean it's not true
and workable.
-=- You don't want your children drinking large amounts of caffeine and
then having them regret it when they are married and are suffering
from infertility.-=-
My kids drink large amounts of milk. None is allergic, but if one had
exzema, which I did as a kid, I KNOW I would consider the freedom to choose
and to live a more stress-free life more important than the freedom from
exzema. Exzema and asthma and some other such conditions are more closely
correlated with emotional than dietary factors, aren't they? Maybe all the
correlations and guesses in the world aren't the real answers.
A child we know had an asthma attack that took him to the hospital yesterday,
from day care. He's ten, and homeschooled, but his mom went to visit
relatives, her dad is dying of cancer, and she's been gone now three weeks.
The dad didn't think of anything better to do than to stick them in a daycare
center where they're the only older kids (8, 10 and 12) and they're not
allowed to bring toys from home. They're bored silly, and are there for ten
hours a day. Nobody suggested it might have been dietary.
The fear throughout childhood of shock, infertility and colon cancer could
ruin an othewise joyous childhood. One of my most uptight friends of all
time finished college, finished law school, got a good job, and a date
(something he lacked through college) and was hit and killed in a crosswalk
while on this date. What, at that point, did it matter what he had eaten up
to that point or how much TV he had watched? And is an 80 year life of fear
and deprivation and magical prevention better than a 60 year life of
experimentation and freedom?
People like to control things. Controlling cancer 40 years out, and
controlling fertility by avoiding caffein, and controlling thoughts by
forbidding TV and controlling attention span by timing video games all still
seem to me like magical acts and charms against fears.
Sandra
"Everything counts."
http://expage.com/SandraDoddArticles
http://expage.com/SandraDodd
<< You don't want your children to learn the right way to eat after
they've contracted diabetes because skittles and cupcakes are much
more appealing to them than veggies. >>
But they're NOT.
My kids don't eat a bunch of junk, given the choice. The stuff my kids
request from the store is more often than not fruit and vegetables. They
turn down candy. But that couldn't have happened if they hadn't had choices
all along.
It's as hard to get people to consider this as it is to get elementary school
teachers to consider that kids could learn to read without being taught.
Just because it doesn't fit the prevailing model doesn't mean it's not true
and workable.
-=- You don't want your children drinking large amounts of caffeine and
then having them regret it when they are married and are suffering
from infertility.-=-
My kids drink large amounts of milk. None is allergic, but if one had
exzema, which I did as a kid, I KNOW I would consider the freedom to choose
and to live a more stress-free life more important than the freedom from
exzema. Exzema and asthma and some other such conditions are more closely
correlated with emotional than dietary factors, aren't they? Maybe all the
correlations and guesses in the world aren't the real answers.
A child we know had an asthma attack that took him to the hospital yesterday,
from day care. He's ten, and homeschooled, but his mom went to visit
relatives, her dad is dying of cancer, and she's been gone now three weeks.
The dad didn't think of anything better to do than to stick them in a daycare
center where they're the only older kids (8, 10 and 12) and they're not
allowed to bring toys from home. They're bored silly, and are there for ten
hours a day. Nobody suggested it might have been dietary.
The fear throughout childhood of shock, infertility and colon cancer could
ruin an othewise joyous childhood. One of my most uptight friends of all
time finished college, finished law school, got a good job, and a date
(something he lacked through college) and was hit and killed in a crosswalk
while on this date. What, at that point, did it matter what he had eaten up
to that point or how much TV he had watched? And is an 80 year life of fear
and deprivation and magical prevention better than a 60 year life of
experimentation and freedom?
People like to control things. Controlling cancer 40 years out, and
controlling fertility by avoiding caffein, and controlling thoughts by
forbidding TV and controlling attention span by timing video games all still
seem to me like magical acts and charms against fears.
Sandra
"Everything counts."
http://expage.com/SandraDoddArticles
http://expage.com/SandraDodd
[email protected]
In a message dated 11/12/01 9:38:56 PM, sheran@... writes:
<< Your child might very well want to get pregnant and, as someone who
does have a hard time getting pregnant, it's not fun to want to have
another baby and not be able to conceive. >>
How many thousands of factors might inhibit conception? Avoidance of caffein
isn't magic.
Sandra
"Everything counts."
http://expage.com/SandraDoddArticles
http://expage.com/SandraDodd
<< Your child might very well want to get pregnant and, as someone who
does have a hard time getting pregnant, it's not fun to want to have
another baby and not be able to conceive. >>
How many thousands of factors might inhibit conception? Avoidance of caffein
isn't magic.
Sandra
"Everything counts."
http://expage.com/SandraDoddArticles
http://expage.com/SandraDodd
Tia Leschke
At 04:38 AM 11/13/01 +0000, you wrote:
that one before. And considering that the majority of North American women
drink coffee or tea......you'd think we'd be looking at a rapidly declining
birth rate.
Granted, my daughter rarely drinks coffee and has two kids.
Tia
Tia Leschke leschke@...
On Vancouver Island
**************************************************************************
It is the answers which separate us, the questions which unite us. - Janice
Levy
>Your child might very well want to get pregnant and, as someone whoI'm just curious what all that has to do with caffeine. I've never heard
>does have a hard time getting pregnant, it's not fun to want to have
>another baby and not be able to conceive.
that one before. And considering that the majority of North American women
drink coffee or tea......you'd think we'd be looking at a rapidly declining
birth rate.
Granted, my daughter rarely drinks coffee and has two kids.
Tia
Tia Leschke leschke@...
On Vancouver Island
**************************************************************************
It is the answers which separate us, the questions which unite us. - Janice
Levy
Tia Leschke
>The way it worked with my step-daughter when she was little and troubled by
>
>My kids drink large amounts of milk. None is allergic, but if one had
>exzema, which I did as a kid, I KNOW I would consider the freedom to choose
>and to live a more stress-free life more important than the freedom from
>exzema. Exzema and asthma and some other such conditions are more closely
>correlated with emotional than dietary factors, aren't they? Maybe all the
>correlations and guesses in the world aren't the real answers.
asthma, was that there had to be a combination. If she had been drinking
milk *and* around cats *and* was feeling strong emotions (and they could be
happy ones, like the excitement of Christmas) then she would get an
attack. If we kept the exposure to the physical triggers way down, then
she could handle any kind of strong emotions. We tried to do that because
it wasn't always possible to predict when the strong emotions were going to
come up.
On the other hand.....my granddaughter has been plagued with severe
tantrums even at age 6. One of the things they tried working with was food
allergies. They got her tested, and she was supposed to be allergic to a
huge list of things. She did improve a fair bit on her restricted diet,
but it certainly wasn't the whole problem. After a while, my daughter
started testing letting her have small amounts of the things she was
supposed to be allergic to. Then Skye started waking up in the morning
asking if they could go and get one of the foods she wasn't allowed to
have. She was totally obsessed with food. My daughter finally decided to
let her eat what she wanted. It wasn't a perfect solution, but it was
better than the obsession. (And they've since found a supplement that
*does* really help a lot. And then she recently had a native healing
circle done for her, and that's helped the most by far.)
Tia
Tia Leschke leschke@...
On Vancouver Island
**************************************************************************
It is the answers which separate us, the questions which unite us. - Janice
Levy
[email protected]
That is certainly true. But caffeine isn't good for us for a number
of reasons. Infertility is only one of many examples.
Sheila
of reasons. Infertility is only one of many examples.
Sheila
> How many thousands of factors might inhibit conception? Avoidanceof caffein
> isn't magic.
Tia Leschke
At 06:10 PM 11/13/01 +0000, you wrote:
read enough about food and nutrition, you might have to stop eating
altogether. Much of the advice is totally contradictory. I think one of
the reasons for that is that we're all really quite different. Things that
bother you might not bother me at all, and the things that bother me might
be just the best thing for you.
Tia
Tia Leschke leschke@...
On Vancouver Island
**************************************************************************
It is the answers which separate us, the questions which unite us. - Janice
Levy
>That is certainly true. But caffeine isn't good for us for a numberThere are about a million things that aren't good for us. In fact, if you
>of reasons. Infertility is only one of many examples.
read enough about food and nutrition, you might have to stop eating
altogether. Much of the advice is totally contradictory. I think one of
the reasons for that is that we're all really quite different. Things that
bother you might not bother me at all, and the things that bother me might
be just the best thing for you.
Tia
Tia Leschke leschke@...
On Vancouver Island
**************************************************************************
It is the answers which separate us, the questions which unite us. - Janice
Levy
[email protected]
--- .
that I have a all-day-everyday video game player. My boy has been
playing video games since he was two(he is now 9yo). And very good
at it I might add. I use to let him play to his heart was
content...which was ALWAYS. When we stopped playing to go shopping
or to someones house. All I heard was mario did this and donkey kong
that. He would want to hurry home to keep playing. He would
sometimes have accidents in his pants, wouldn't eat, and sometimes
complained of headaches...from playing for 8 hours. So now I limit
them. I think what really pushed my buttons was when he was doing
WWF wrestling moves on his 1yo brother. ANYWAY...
The more I think about it...I won't let him have free rain on the
video games. I will back off in not pushing him to find something
else to replace them. For who knows what the future may
bring...maybe he'll be a tester for nintendo some day..hehe For I
think it is my job as a parent to supervise when nessasary...not
everything. I mean a child should brush their teeth and take a
shower...just because a child doesn't want to do those things,
doesn't mean he should go 5 years without doing it :-)) It's my job
to keep them clean and to set SOME limits. For they are my babies...
SHAWN
>happen have
> Those who have let them have the freedom to prove that it could
> never produced and all-day-every-day video game player.diet girl
>
> And so I think the never-would-stop video player and the all-celery-
> are both straw men.Well, I don't know about the all-celery-diet girl. But I can say
>
that I have a all-day-everyday video game player. My boy has been
playing video games since he was two(he is now 9yo). And very good
at it I might add. I use to let him play to his heart was
content...which was ALWAYS. When we stopped playing to go shopping
or to someones house. All I heard was mario did this and donkey kong
that. He would want to hurry home to keep playing. He would
sometimes have accidents in his pants, wouldn't eat, and sometimes
complained of headaches...from playing for 8 hours. So now I limit
them. I think what really pushed my buttons was when he was doing
WWF wrestling moves on his 1yo brother. ANYWAY...
The more I think about it...I won't let him have free rain on the
video games. I will back off in not pushing him to find something
else to replace them. For who knows what the future may
bring...maybe he'll be a tester for nintendo some day..hehe For I
think it is my job as a parent to supervise when nessasary...not
everything. I mean a child should brush their teeth and take a
shower...just because a child doesn't want to do those things,
doesn't mean he should go 5 years without doing it :-)) It's my job
to keep them clean and to set SOME limits. For they are my babies...
SHAWN
Lynda
Cow's milk contains an elevated level of hormones in it to begin with. Back
in the 50s you were getting formaldehyde in your milk as a preservative.
Lynda
in the 50s you were getting formaldehyde in your milk as a preservative.
Lynda
----- Original Message -----
From: Tia Leschke <leschke@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, November 12, 2001 7:50 PM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Re: Deschooling--TV and Video Limits?
>
> >
> >
> > You don't want your children drinking large amounts of caffeine and
> >then having them regret it when they are married and are suffering
> >from infertility.
>
> Huh? There have been times in my life that I might have wished that my
> caffeine habit would cause infertility.
>
> > And I don't allow my daughter to drink non-organic milk, because I
> >believe the hormones in our milk are responsible for many girls
> >entering puberty at too early of an age.
>
> Interesting. I had an early puberty, and they weren't putting hormones
> into the cows when I was a child in the 50's.
> Tia
>
> Tia Leschke leschke@...
> On Vancouver Island
> **************************************************************************
> It is the answers which separate us, the questions which unite us. -
Janice
> Levy
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
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>
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>
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>
>
Tia Leschke
At 11:48 AM 11/13/01 -0800, you wrote:
Tia
Tia Leschke leschke@...
On Vancouver Island
**************************************************************************
It is the answers which separate us, the questions which unite us. - Janice
Levy
>Cow's milk contains an elevated level of hormones in it to begin with. BackSo *that's* why people always think I'm younger than I really am. <g>
>in the 50s you were getting formaldehyde in your milk as a preservative.
Tia
Tia Leschke leschke@...
On Vancouver Island
**************************************************************************
It is the answers which separate us, the questions which unite us. - Janice
Levy
Allison Crilly
My kids drink large amounts of milk. None is allergic, but if one had
exzema, which I did as a kid, I KNOW I would consider the freedom to choose
and to live a more stress-free life more important than the freedom from
exzema. Exzema and asthma and some other such conditions are more closely
correlated with emotional than dietary factors, aren't they? Maybe all the
correlations and guesses in the world aren't the real answers.
My son has both eczema and asthma. I've never heard anyone claim that there are emotional factors involved with them. I have heard lots and lots of claims, and research, of the direct dietary factors involved. My son and I don't drink milk or eat wheat. Neither of us are allergic, but we are "sensitive" to them. Without them in our diet, my son no longer has stomach cramps, night terrors, eczema, his astma is under control without drugs, and his behavior has changed significantly (we both also have Tourette Syndrome, and the behavioral "co-morbidities" that go along with TS have disappeared.) My son hates his new diet, but is very, very happy with the changes that have gone on in his body. He'll get used to the diet eventually, and there is no way that I will allow him to go back to his old ways of eating. The diet hasn't caused me any more stress than eating the old way, it's just replaced the stress of having a sick, cranky, anxious, depressed child, with a healthy child who is generally not happy at dinner time.
BTW, even conservative Discover magazine did a cover story on the connection between ingesting large amounts of dairy products, and the high incidence of osteoporosis, alzheimers, certain cancers, MS, and several other neurological disorders. The only groups still pushing a high dairy intake are having their research funded by the dairy lobby. This is a case where there is a significant amount of research and correlation. It's also a well established and completely uncontroversial fact that the majority of the world's population is lactose intolerant (3 out of 5 in European decent population, about 90-95% in non-white populations) and that injesting dairy products would hurt them. In fact, there is a very good chance that you or your children are lactose intolerant and don't know it.
Allison
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
exzema, which I did as a kid, I KNOW I would consider the freedom to choose
and to live a more stress-free life more important than the freedom from
exzema. Exzema and asthma and some other such conditions are more closely
correlated with emotional than dietary factors, aren't they? Maybe all the
correlations and guesses in the world aren't the real answers.
My son has both eczema and asthma. I've never heard anyone claim that there are emotional factors involved with them. I have heard lots and lots of claims, and research, of the direct dietary factors involved. My son and I don't drink milk or eat wheat. Neither of us are allergic, but we are "sensitive" to them. Without them in our diet, my son no longer has stomach cramps, night terrors, eczema, his astma is under control without drugs, and his behavior has changed significantly (we both also have Tourette Syndrome, and the behavioral "co-morbidities" that go along with TS have disappeared.) My son hates his new diet, but is very, very happy with the changes that have gone on in his body. He'll get used to the diet eventually, and there is no way that I will allow him to go back to his old ways of eating. The diet hasn't caused me any more stress than eating the old way, it's just replaced the stress of having a sick, cranky, anxious, depressed child, with a healthy child who is generally not happy at dinner time.
BTW, even conservative Discover magazine did a cover story on the connection between ingesting large amounts of dairy products, and the high incidence of osteoporosis, alzheimers, certain cancers, MS, and several other neurological disorders. The only groups still pushing a high dairy intake are having their research funded by the dairy lobby. This is a case where there is a significant amount of research and correlation. It's also a well established and completely uncontroversial fact that the majority of the world's population is lactose intolerant (3 out of 5 in European decent population, about 90-95% in non-white populations) and that injesting dairy products would hurt them. In fact, there is a very good chance that you or your children are lactose intolerant and don't know it.
Allison
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]