Lynda

Nope, I've been on this list long enough to know that folks absolutely NEVER
agree on everything. And, I wasn't interested in the book, per se, but in
the book burning statement. I find that folks that think any book that
doesn't teach a particular view should then be burned are a bit on the
nutcake side. If they start with this book, what book is next?

I don't feel that any text should "advise" kids to write to their whatevers.
I do think that science should be taught as science and not from a political
or economic standpoint. Politics and economics are variables, science is
not. Acid rain is acid rain and what causes it causes it.

I do, however, think kids should know that they have an option of contacting
their representatives because I think they aren't a sub-species that have no
rights until they are 18. AND, I think a lot of those kids are quite
intelligent enough to make informed decisions and exercise that right, which
is one of the reasons I unschool. I think children are simply small people
and don't think that type of intelligence is limited until they reach that
magic age of 18. In fact, I quite frequently find that they have a much
better grasp on things that most of the politicians out there who seem only
to grasp how much money will line their own pockets rather than what the
facts are on any given subject.

Lynda
----- Original Message -----
From: Fetteroll <fetteroll@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, November 05, 2001 2:05 AM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Nuttier Than A Bag Of Nuts At A
NutFestival


> on 11/4/01 6:12 PM, Lynda at lurine@... wrote:
>
> Anyone in Texas know if this nut got his bonfire?
>
> I think Texas is one of the states where the state board of education
> chooses the textbooks for the whole state so someone who can convince
those
> doing the choosing can influence a whole humongous state -- and the
thinking
> of a whole passle of future voters.
>
> Environmentalism is a hot point with conservatives since conservatives are
> generally for strong local government and minimal national government. And
> environmental policies are generally a national government issue. So more
> environmentalism means more national control.
>
> As for the kids not being qualified, he has a point. Are the kids being
> presented with opposing viewpoints on environmental issues so they can
> decide for themselves or are they being fed a single viewpoint?
>
> To someone who feels environmentalism is too obvious to be questioned,
> presenting kids with the causes of acid rain and the effects of acid rain
> would seem to be giving them a complete picture. (Of course, since schools
> divide information into neat compartments, it *is* a complete *science*
> picture. Since it's a science class they can't discuss the economic or
> political aspects of the issue. Those must be confined to separate
classes.)
>
> But if the kids were being presented with an obvious conservative point in
> government class, such as gun ownership is a constitutionally mandated
right
> clearly stated in the second amendment, and it was suggested they all
write
> to their congressional representative about preserving that right, I
suspect
> liberals would find it appalling. It would look like mind control. It
would
> look like a state trying to mold an entire generation of future voters
> towards a single viewpoint. It wouldn't look at all like kids asking their
> congressional representative to represent them. It would look like someone
> getting all the kids in the state to follow a single political agenda. It
> would look really really scary.
>
> But anytime kids are fed a single viewpoint it's scary. Unfortunately
> schools weren't designed to offer information with more than one view
point.
> How many viewpoints can their be to 5+12 and here's how to spell "cat"?
They
> weren't designed to teach kids how to think, how to weigh issues, how to
> come to their own conclusions. The were designed to give kids a basic
> framework of practical math, reading, writing, some history.
>
> The information schools impart has expanded well beyond that, but the
"just
> memorize the facts" approach and mentality hasn't changed.
>
> And I bet you were expecting a slew of "Boy, I agree with you, what a nut
> case!" ;-)
>
> Joyce
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
> Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com
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>
>
>
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>
>

[email protected]

Beautifully stated!
Deb L


> I do, however, think kids should know that they have an option of
> contacting
> their representatives because I think they aren't a sub-species that
> have no
> rights until they are 18. AND, I think a lot of those kids are
> quite
> intelligent enough to make informed decisions and exercise that
> right, which
> is one of the reasons I unschool. I think children are simply small
> people
> and don't think that type of intelligence is limited until they
> reach that
> magic age of 18. In fact, I quite frequently find that they have a
> much
> better grasp on things that most of the politicians out there who
> seem only
> to grasp how much money will line their own pockets rather than what
> the
> facts are on any given subject.
>
> Lynda

[email protected]

<< I find that folks that think any book that
doesn't teach a particular view should then be burned are a bit on the
nutcake side. If they start with this book, what book is next?>>

I agree.

<<I don't feel that any text should "advise" kids to write to their
whatevers. >>

I agree.

<<I do, however, think kids should know that they have an option of contacting
their representatives because I think they aren't a sub-species that have no
rights until they are 18. >>

I agree.
I know kids who know WAY more about state and local politics than I do.
They should be voting.

And I know some adults who know zip, and shouldn't be voting.
I think there should be an entry exam for each polling, and anyone who
doesn't have a clue about the issues should just go home instead of coming in
and voting republican.

Sandra



Sandra

"Everything counts."
http://expage.com/SandraDoddArticles
http://expage.com/SandraDodd

[email protected]

Someone wrote to me on the side. I thought the question was fun, so I
answered it privately but I'm putting it here too. Since there are
umpty-hundred people on the list, I don't figure it will embarrass anyone
that a private question gets put public without a name one it. Possibly
others of you thought the same question.

--------------------------

-=-Is that really what you meant to say?
Who creates the exam? Who grades it?
Who decides what the issues are and what clues count? Who decides who get
the
job of creating and grading the exam? Could we just say an accredited high
school diploma would qualify someone? Need to be accredited by a particular
state or by association of religious schools?-=-


That's really what I meant to say.

I know it will never happen.

Leage of Women Voters could make the questions. An 8th grade civics class,
or the editor of the local paper could make the questions.

But when a person goes in and just votes no across the board on all bond
issues and mil taxes, or when a person goes in and pulls levers by apparent
ethnicity of last name, or votes against all women, that's vandalism in my
opinion.

If I haven't read what the various mayoral candidates have said and written,
I have no business voting for mayor.

<<Could we just say an accredited high
school diploma would qualify someone? >>

WHY? Does graduating from high school in 1980 mean a person knows who's
running for the senate twenty years later?

It should be like a sobriety test. If you really can't name the candidates
or don't know who the incumbent is, go home.

Sandra

[email protected]

> And I know some adults who know zip, and shouldn't be voting.
> I think there should be an entry exam for each polling, and anyone
> who
> doesn't have a clue about the issues should just go home instead of
> coming in
> and voting republican.

Ha! When I went to vote last November my son came along. He was eight
at the time. He actually made himself a voters registration card and got
a ballot. Any way, there were these guys behind us in the line looking
at their ballot asking, " Who are all these guys? They're all running
for President?" I listened while my little kid explained just who was
which and their party affiliations, etc. These were grown men,
forty-ish. Ya gotta wonder!

Deb L

Lynda

Precisely!!!!!!!!! It makes me absolutely nuts to stand in line waiting for
my ballot and listen to folks chit chat with their friends. The big social
hour and "what do you know about blah, blah," to which friend replies, "oh,
I don't know but the man on telelvision was so handsome and seemed to know
what he was talking about." AND, I have actually heard this conversation.

Scarey!!!

Or the "my parents voted the Republican ticket so I am going to vote the
Republican ticket."

That same mentality is keeping a politician in office, collecting a salary
(o.k. so they voted the salary in half) while he is in jail for molesting
two children! He gets to stay in office as long as he doesn't conduct any
business from the jail. Geez Louise, and some folks wonder why people are
so disgusted with politicians and politics!

Lynda
----- Original Message -----
From: <SandraDodd@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, November 05, 2001 8:43 AM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Nuttier Than A Bag Of Nuts At A
NutFestival


>
> << I find that folks that think any book that
> doesn't teach a particular view should then be burned are a bit on the
> nutcake side. If they start with this book, what book is next?>>
>
> I agree.
>
> <<I don't feel that any text should "advise" kids to write to their
> whatevers. >>
>
> I agree.
>
> <<I do, however, think kids should know that they have an option of
contacting
> their representatives because I think they aren't a sub-species that have
no
> rights until they are 18. >>
>
> I agree.
> I know kids who know WAY more about state and local politics than I do.
> They should be voting.
>
> And I know some adults who know zip, and shouldn't be voting.
> I think there should be an entry exam for each polling, and anyone who
> doesn't have a clue about the issues should just go home instead of coming
in
> and voting republican.
>
> Sandra
>
>
>
> Sandra
>
> "Everything counts."
> http://expage.com/SandraDoddArticles
> http://expage.com/SandraDodd
>
>
> Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
> Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com
>
> To unsubscribe, set preferences, or read archives:
> http://www.egroups.com/group/Unschooling-dotcom
>
> Another great list sponsored by Home Education Magazine!
> http://www.home-ed-magazine.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

Sharon Rudd

Obviously they hadn't been unschoolers!!



I listened while my little kid
> explained just who was
> which and their party affiliations, etc. These
> were grown men,
> forty-ish. Ya gotta wonder!
>
> Deb L



__________________________________________________
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Fetteroll

on 11/5/01 10:30 AM, Lynda at lurine@... wrote:

> I do think that science should be taught as science and not from a political
> or economic standpoint. Politics and economics are variables, science is
> not. Acid rain is acid rain and what causes it causes it.

I meant to reply to this but ended up covering it in my previous post. I
think kids would get a bigger picture if nothing were learned in isolation.
I also think it's a rare school that can pull that off as a general policy.

> And, I wasn't interested in the book, per se, but in
> the book burning statement. I find that folks that think any book that
> doesn't teach a particular view should then be burned are a bit on the
> nutcake side. If they start with this book, what book is next?

And yet, if I found myself in the possession of an Ezzo or Fulgate book I'd
be tempted to -- and might actually -- drop it in the trash rather than let
it fall into the hands of some poor innocent at the library book sale. I've
had serious thoughts about other books I've donated.

And if I could get my hands on all the Ezzo and Fulgate books, I might be
sorely tempted!

So if I can feel justified about destroying a book I find personally
repugnant, does that make me a nutcase too? If you agree with my reasoning
for doing it to a particular book, does that make it okay?

I don't think people burn books because a book doesn't teach what they
believe. (Though some probably do.) I think it's because the book teaches
something they think is bad. It's a subtle but important difference that
helps us gain insight into the way people we disagree with think. In other
words they think the same was we do, just from a different point of view.

Joyce


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sharon Rudd

Nope. Not me. I don't that way.

Sharon

> I don't think people burn books because a book
> doesn't teach what they
> believe. (Though some probably do.) I think it's
> because the book teaches
> something they think is bad. It's a subtle but
> important difference that
> helps us gain insight into the way people we
> disagree with think. In other
> words they think the same was we do, just from a
> different point of view.
>
> Joyce
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been
> removed]
>
>


__________________________________________________
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Find a job, post your resume.
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Tia Leschke

>
>And yet, if I found myself in the possession of an Ezzo or Fulgate book I'd
>be tempted to -- and might actually -- drop it in the trash rather than let
>it fall into the hands of some poor innocent at the library book sale. I've
>had serious thoughts about other books I've donated.

I know who Ezzo is ('scuse me while I puke) but who or what is Fulgate?


>And if I could get my hands on all the Ezzo and Fulgate books, I might be
>sorely tempted!

My tactic would more likely be to write my own opinions right in the book
and then pass it on.
<beg>
Tia

Tia Leschke leschke@...
On Vancouver Island
**************************************************************************
It is the answers which separate us, the questions which unite us. - Janice
Levy

Sharon Rudd

oops......I don't THINK that way. Sorry, sometimes I
don't even think at all.(G) Sometimes I can't type.

--- Sharon Rudd <bearspawprint@...> wrote:
> Nope. Not me. I don't that way.
>
> Sharon
>
> > I don't think people burn books because a book
> > doesn't teach what they
> > believe. (Though some probably do.) I think it's
> > because the book teaches
> > something they think is bad. It's a subtle but
> > important difference that
> > helps us gain insight into the way people we
> > disagree with think. In other
> > words they think the same was we do, just from a
> > different point of view.
> >
> > Joyce
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been
> > removed]
> >
> >
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Find a job, post your resume.
> http://careers.yahoo.com
>


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Find a job, post your resume.
http://careers.yahoo.com

Lynda

Oh, I like that idea.

Lynda, searching for a yellow highlighter as she wonders if the local
library has any
----- Original Message -----
From: Tia Leschke <leschke@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2001 8:06 AM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Nuttier Than A Bag Of Nuts At A
NutFestival


>
> >
> >And yet, if I found myself in the possession of an Ezzo or Fulgate book
I'd
> >be tempted to -- and might actually -- drop it in the trash rather than
let
> >it fall into the hands of some poor innocent at the library book sale.
I've
> >had serious thoughts about other books I've donated.
>
> I know who Ezzo is ('scuse me while I puke) but who or what is Fulgate?
>
>
> >And if I could get my hands on all the Ezzo and Fulgate books, I might be
> >sorely tempted!
>
> My tactic would more likely be to write my own opinions right in the book
> and then pass it on.
> <beg>
> Tia
>
> Tia Leschke leschke@...
> On Vancouver Island
> **************************************************************************
> It is the answers which separate us, the questions which unite us. -
Janice
> Levy
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
> Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com
>
> To unsubscribe, set preferences, or read archives:
> http://www.egroups.com/group/Unschooling-dotcom
>
> Another great list sponsored by Home Education Magazine!
> http://www.home-ed-magazine.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

Fetteroll

on 11/6/01 11:06 AM, Tia Leschke at leschke@... wrote:

> I know who Ezzo is ('scuse me while I puke) but who or what is Fulgate?

Oops, that's Fugate. Richard Fugate. He wrote What the Bible Says About
Child Training. He came up with a list of rod sizes to be used on different
age children, beginning with infants. He even gave them cutsie names.

Joyce


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

. He came up with a list of rod sizes to be used on
> different
> age children, beginning with infants. He even gave them cutsie
> names.

I received a free copy of Home School Digest at a book swap. In the back
was an ad for "THE ROD"

Proverbs 23:13-24 Proverbs 22:15
(The means prescribed by God)
The ideal tool for child training

Flexible nylon rod
Cushioned vinyl grip (so the user feels no discomfort?)
Balanced easy to use
Safety tip (yeah, we wouldn't wanna hurt anyone)
(and my favorite part)
Spoons are for cooking
Belts are for holding up pants
Hands are for loving
RODS (a little smiley face here) are for chastening

Isn't that nice?

What a freak!
Deb L

Lynda

You missed the ads where they list the various sizes and how (I forget what
they called it) is "ideal to carry in a diaper bag."

Lynda
----- Original Message -----
From: <ddzimlew@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, November 07, 2001 1:42 PM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Nuttier Than A Bag Of Nuts At A
NutFestival


>
> . He came up with a list of rod sizes to be used on
> > different
> > age children, beginning with infants. He even gave them cutsie
> > names.
>
> I received a free copy of Home School Digest at a book swap. In the back
> was an ad for "THE ROD"
>
> Proverbs 23:13-24 Proverbs 22:15
> (The means prescribed by God)
> The ideal tool for child training
>
> Flexible nylon rod
> Cushioned vinyl grip (so the user feels no discomfort?)
> Balanced easy to use
> Safety tip (yeah, we wouldn't wanna hurt anyone)
> (and my favorite part)
> Spoons are for cooking
> Belts are for holding up pants
> Hands are for loving
> RODS (a little smiley face here) are for chastening
>
> Isn't that nice?
>
> What a freak!
> Deb L
>
> Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
> Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com
>
> To unsubscribe, set preferences, or read archives:
> http://www.egroups.com/group/Unschooling-dotcom
>
> Another great list sponsored by Home Education Magazine!
> http://www.home-ed-magazine.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

meghan anderson

THIS IS SO SCARY! It makes me so sad to think of the
kids being raised by people with this mentality.

Meghan

>I received a free copy of Home School Digest at a
>book swap. In the
>back
>was an ad for "THE ROD"
>
>Proverbs 23:13-24 Proverbs 22:15
>(The means prescribed by God)
>The ideal tool for child training
>
>Flexible nylon rod
>Cushioned vinyl grip (so the user feels no
>discomfort?)
>Balanced easy to use
>Safety tip (yeah, we wouldn't wanna hurt anyone)
>(and my favorite part)
>Spoons are for cooking
>Belts are for holding up pants
>Hands are for loving
>RODS (a little smiley face here) are for >chastening
>
>Isn't that nice?
>
>What a freak!
>Deb L

__________________________________________________
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Find a job, post your resume.
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