Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Choices in charters
[email protected]
In a message dated 11/01/2001 9:28:13 AM !!!First Boot!!!,
moonmeghan@... writes:
Choices folks. Choices for people who are just starting out, would like to
start out, are going thru a transition in their life, or are just regular
people, like me. Not everyone is at the same place in their life.
And it sounds like Meghan made an informed choice.
Nance
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
moonmeghan@... writes:
> . Some of usWell said, Meghan.
> use public charter school programs, others use a
> private homeschool program and yet others do the R4
> thing. So I think there is room for everyone.
> Meghan
>
Choices folks. Choices for people who are just starting out, would like to
start out, are going thru a transition in their life, or are just regular
people, like me. Not everyone is at the same place in their life.
And it sounds like Meghan made an informed choice.
Nance
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Lynda
That is the point, though. "Informed" choice. When the definitions become
blurred, not all know what the choices are because they don't understand
that ps is ps and homeschooling is homeschooling and that the term is being
taken over by the ps system to bring in more $$.
In CA, the most generous charter I discovered when I did a search provided
$1400 per school year. The going rate for admin in a regular ps is 7% with
10% being the max. The minimum charters are getting is $3700 per student.
You do the math. This is big business so they are working hard to get as
many folks as they can.
They don't care about these kids and at least 2, if not 3 now are under
investigation because the supplies they promise aren't showing up OR they
are showing up half way or even later in the school year.
Lynda
blurred, not all know what the choices are because they don't understand
that ps is ps and homeschooling is homeschooling and that the term is being
taken over by the ps system to bring in more $$.
In CA, the most generous charter I discovered when I did a search provided
$1400 per school year. The going rate for admin in a regular ps is 7% with
10% being the max. The minimum charters are getting is $3700 per student.
You do the math. This is big business so they are working hard to get as
many folks as they can.
They don't care about these kids and at least 2, if not 3 now are under
investigation because the supplies they promise aren't showing up OR they
are showing up half way or even later in the school year.
Lynda
----- Original Message -----
From: <marbleface@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2001 6:04 AM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Choices in charters
> In a message dated 11/01/2001 9:28:13 AM !!!First Boot!!!,
> moonmeghan@... writes:
>
>
> > . Some of us
> > use public charter school programs, others use a
> > private homeschool program and yet others do the R4
> > thing. So I think there is room for everyone.
> > Meghan
> >
>
>
> Well said, Meghan.
>
> Choices folks. Choices for people who are just starting out, would like
to
> start out, are going thru a transition in their life, or are just regular
> people, like me. Not everyone is at the same place in their life.
>
> And it sounds like Meghan made an informed choice.
>
> Nance
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
> Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com
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>
Tia Leschke
At 08:27 AM 11/1/01 -0800, you wrote:
"real" homeschoolers belong to. Mix with them. They probably aren't any
more different than you and I are.
deal. Where I live the public schools are chronically underfunded as it
is. If the money can benefit kids, one way or another, it makes no
difference to me. And I do believe that the kids going to public schools
deserve to benefit from public education money. What money the Electronic
Bus makes on the program benefits the kids in that district by allowing
programs to continue that were scheduled to be cut. Maybe it doesn't work
that way with charter schools. They've only just begun up here, and the
only ones I know of are the "back to basics, rigid discipline" types.
Tia
Tia Leschke leschke@...
On Vancouver Island
**************************************************************************
It is the answers which separate us, the questions which unite us. - Janice
Levy
>That is the point, though. "Informed" choice. When the definitions becomeSo educate the parents. Find ways to invite them into the same groups the
>blurred, not all know what the choices are because they don't understand
>that ps is ps and homeschooling is homeschooling and that the term is being
>taken over by the ps system to bring in more $$.
"real" homeschoolers belong to. Mix with them. They probably aren't any
more different than you and I are.
>In CA, the most generous charter I discovered when I did a search providedI honestly don't care whether the school districts make some money on the
>$1400 per school year. The going rate for admin in a regular ps is 7% with
>10% being the max. The minimum charters are getting is $3700 per student.
>You do the math. This is big business so they are working hard to get as
>many folks as they can.
deal. Where I live the public schools are chronically underfunded as it
is. If the money can benefit kids, one way or another, it makes no
difference to me. And I do believe that the kids going to public schools
deserve to benefit from public education money. What money the Electronic
Bus makes on the program benefits the kids in that district by allowing
programs to continue that were scheduled to be cut. Maybe it doesn't work
that way with charter schools. They've only just begun up here, and the
only ones I know of are the "back to basics, rigid discipline" types.
Tia
Tia Leschke leschke@...
On Vancouver Island
**************************************************************************
It is the answers which separate us, the questions which unite us. - Janice
Levy
[email protected]
In a message dated 11/01/2001 5:56:24 PM !!!First Boot!!!, lurine@...
writes:
Now. Maybe it used to be. But the times they are a'changin.
Maybe one revolution is over and the next phase has begun.
Maybe a lot of things will happen in coming years that none of us can
imagine. Some good. Some bad.
I think hsers can spend their time bemoaning the changes coming or they can
look at things as they are evolving and make it better than it would be
without the insights that hsers can provide.
Things will not stop changing just because some of us think there have been
enough changes.
Nance
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
writes:
> That is the point, though. "Informed" choice. When the definitions becomeWeeelllll, that's the thing though. It's really not so black and white.
> blurred, not all know what the choices are because they don't understand
> that ps is ps and homeschooling is homeschooling and that the term is being
> taken over by the ps system to bring in more $$.
>
Now. Maybe it used to be. But the times they are a'changin.
Maybe one revolution is over and the next phase has begun.
Maybe a lot of things will happen in coming years that none of us can
imagine. Some good. Some bad.
I think hsers can spend their time bemoaning the changes coming or they can
look at things as they are evolving and make it better than it would be
without the insights that hsers can provide.
Things will not stop changing just because some of us think there have been
enough changes.
Nance
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Lynda
That is the point, again. School districts are NOT making money. These
charters are being run FOR PROFIT by folks such as Horizon and One2One, to
name just a couple. One2One has changed their name but it is still business
as usual.
The money doesn't benefit kids, it doesn't even put too many people to work
and those it does are paid minimum wages with the "owner" of these companies
hauling in the $$.
Lynda
charters are being run FOR PROFIT by folks such as Horizon and One2One, to
name just a couple. One2One has changed their name but it is still business
as usual.
The money doesn't benefit kids, it doesn't even put too many people to work
and those it does are paid minimum wages with the "owner" of these companies
hauling in the $$.
Lynda
----- Original Message -----
From: Tia Leschke <leschke@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2001 11:09 AM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Choices in charters
> At 08:27 AM 11/1/01 -0800, you wrote:
> >That is the point, though. "Informed" choice. When the definitions
become
> >blurred, not all know what the choices are because they don't understand
> >that ps is ps and homeschooling is homeschooling and that the term is
being
> >taken over by the ps system to bring in more $$.
>
> So educate the parents. Find ways to invite them into the same groups the
> "real" homeschoolers belong to. Mix with them. They probably aren't any
> more different than you and I are.
>
>
> >In CA, the most generous charter I discovered when I did a search
provided
> >$1400 per school year. The going rate for admin in a regular ps is 7%
with
> >10% being the max. The minimum charters are getting is $3700 per
student.
> >You do the math. This is big business so they are working hard to get as
> >many folks as they can.
>
> I honestly don't care whether the school districts make some money on the
> deal. Where I live the public schools are chronically underfunded as it
> is. If the money can benefit kids, one way or another, it makes no
> difference to me. And I do believe that the kids going to public schools
> deserve to benefit from public education money. What money the Electronic
> Bus makes on the program benefits the kids in that district by allowing
> programs to continue that were scheduled to be cut. Maybe it doesn't work
> that way with charter schools. They've only just begun up here, and the
> only ones I know of are the "back to basics, rigid discipline" types.
> Tia
>
> Tia Leschke leschke@...
> On Vancouver Island
> **************************************************************************
> It is the answers which separate us, the questions which unite us. -
Janice
> Levy
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
> Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com
>
> To unsubscribe, set preferences, or read archives:
> http://www.egroups.com/group/Unschooling-dotcom
>
> Another great list sponsored by Home Education Magazine!
> http://www.home-ed-magazine.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
[email protected]
In a message dated 11/02/2001 1:31:04 AM !!!First Boot!!!, lurine@...
writes:
Nance
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
writes:
> TheseThat's actually legal.
>
Nance
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Lynda
Huh?
Lynda
Lynda
----- Original Message -----
From: <marbleface@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2001 5:44 PM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Choices in charters
> In a message dated 11/02/2001 1:31:04 AM !!!First Boot!!!,
lurine@...
> writes:
>
>
> > These
> >
>
>
> That's actually legal.
>
> Nance
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
> Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com
>
> To unsubscribe, set preferences, or read archives:
> http://www.egroups.com/group/Unschooling-dotcom
>
> Another great list sponsored by Home Education Magazine!
> http://www.home-ed-magazine.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
[email protected]
On Thu, 1 Nov 2001 16:54:59 -0800 "Lynda" <lurine@...> writes:
end of last year. One2one is a national learning foundation run in large
part by the Milton Hershey foundation, and they have funded a variety of
alternative programs in Texas, Pennsylvanie, and California. They didn't
change their name, either - because of a new state law they had to
de-centralize, and they did so by helping many school distracts open
homeschooling charters, while they acted as consultants, procurred
initial funding, etc. The charters one2one works with are now very
different from each other, and they tend to more reflect the values of
their individual communities. Unfortunately, the one I ended up working
for was located in a really conservative area....
Daron
________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
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> That is the point, again. School districts are NOT making money.No. HomeSmartKids of Knightsen is the only for-profit charter, as of the
> These
> charters are being run FOR PROFIT by folks such as Horizon and
> One2One, to
> name just a couple. One2One has changed their name but it is still
> business
> as usual.
>
end of last year. One2one is a national learning foundation run in large
part by the Milton Hershey foundation, and they have funded a variety of
alternative programs in Texas, Pennsylvanie, and California. They didn't
change their name, either - because of a new state law they had to
de-centralize, and they did so by helping many school distracts open
homeschooling charters, while they acted as consultants, procurred
initial funding, etc. The charters one2one works with are now very
different from each other, and they tend to more reflect the values of
their individual communities. Unfortunately, the one I ended up working
for was located in a really conservative area....
Daron
________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.
Tia Leschke
At 04:54 PM 11/1/01 -0800, you wrote:
extrapolating it to cover all situations where there are charters or ps
homeschooling programs. The problem with that is that they aren't all like
that. I've explained how it works in BC. You're obviously familiar with
how it works in Calif., at least in your area. What about other
folks? How is it actually working in other parts of the States? At this
time, I think BC is the only province with these kinds of programs. In
Alberta, all homeschoolers have to jump through more hoops than the
Electronic bus families in BC. They get money, but have no choice to opt
out. I'm sure this is what a lot of people are concerned about, but it
didn't happen in Alberta because of charter schools or ps homeschooling
programs. It happened because some homeschoolers pushed for financial
support, and the government decided to give it to everyone, no opting
out. This is what we're working to prevent in BC.
your area. Can you accept that maybe it works better or at least
differently elsewhere?
Tia
Tia Leschke leschke@...
On Vancouver Island
**************************************************************************
It is the answers which separate us, the questions which unite us. - Janice
Levy
>That is the point, again. School districts are NOT making money. TheseI think you are taking the situation that you're familiar with and
>charters are being run FOR PROFIT by folks such as Horizon and One2One, to
>name just a couple. One2One has changed their name but it is still business
>as usual.
extrapolating it to cover all situations where there are charters or ps
homeschooling programs. The problem with that is that they aren't all like
that. I've explained how it works in BC. You're obviously familiar with
how it works in Calif., at least in your area. What about other
folks? How is it actually working in other parts of the States? At this
time, I think BC is the only province with these kinds of programs. In
Alberta, all homeschoolers have to jump through more hoops than the
Electronic bus families in BC. They get money, but have no choice to opt
out. I'm sure this is what a lot of people are concerned about, but it
didn't happen in Alberta because of charter schools or ps homeschooling
programs. It happened because some homeschoolers pushed for financial
support, and the government decided to give it to everyone, no opting
out. This is what we're working to prevent in BC.
>The money doesn't benefit kids, it doesn't even put too many people to workI can certainly see why you're against these programs, the way they work in
>and those it does are paid minimum wages with the "owner" of these companies
>hauling in the $$.
your area. Can you accept that maybe it works better or at least
differently elsewhere?
Tia
Tia Leschke leschke@...
On Vancouver Island
**************************************************************************
It is the answers which separate us, the questions which unite us. - Janice
Levy
[email protected]
In a message dated 11/02/2001 2:32:34 PM !!!First Boot!!!, freeform@...
writes:
but my brilliant words got cut off!)
Nance
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
writes:
> > That is the point, again. School districts are NOT making money.And being for-profit is actually legal. (Which I was trying to say before,
> > These
> > charters are being run FOR PROFIT by folks such as Horizon and
> > One2One, to
> > name just a couple. One2One has changed their name but it is still
> > business
> > as usual.
> >
> No. HomeSmartKids of Knightsen is the only for-profit charter, as of the
> end of last year. One2one is a national learning foundation run in large
> part by the Milton Hershey foundation, and they have funded a variety of
>
but my brilliant words got cut off!)
Nance
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Lynda
Even though they may be licensed as a non-profit, they are run to make money
for the owners of the non-profits. One2One not only had to decentralize,
they are being actively investigated for removing confidential student files
from charter offices, misappropriation of funds and several other offenses.
One2One or whatever they call themselves is not altruistic and they aren't
doing anything to benefit the kids. They are in it for the money! They
charge outrageous $$ and push Christian curriculum telling charters that
only certain catelogs/companies can provide the resources they want when
infact all the items are available without a Christian agenda.
And while some of the charters they managed may be have benefited from their
oversight, many, many were robbed!
Lynda
for the owners of the non-profits. One2One not only had to decentralize,
they are being actively investigated for removing confidential student files
from charter offices, misappropriation of funds and several other offenses.
One2One or whatever they call themselves is not altruistic and they aren't
doing anything to benefit the kids. They are in it for the money! They
charge outrageous $$ and push Christian curriculum telling charters that
only certain catelogs/companies can provide the resources they want when
infact all the items are available without a Christian agenda.
And while some of the charters they managed may be have benefited from their
oversight, many, many were robbed!
Lynda
----- Original Message -----
From: <freeform@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Cc: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2001 10:12 PM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Choices in charters
>
>
> On Thu, 1 Nov 2001 16:54:59 -0800 "Lynda" <lurine@...> writes:
> > That is the point, again. School districts are NOT making money.
> > These
> > charters are being run FOR PROFIT by folks such as Horizon and
> > One2One, to
> > name just a couple. One2One has changed their name but it is still
> > business
> > as usual.
> >
> No. HomeSmartKids of Knightsen is the only for-profit charter, as of the
> end of last year. One2one is a national learning foundation run in large
> part by the Milton Hershey foundation, and they have funded a variety of
> alternative programs in Texas, Pennsylvanie, and California. They didn't
> change their name, either - because of a new state law they had to
> de-centralize, and they did so by helping many school distracts open
> homeschooling charters, while they acted as consultants, procurred
> initial funding, etc. The charters one2one works with are now very
> different from each other, and they tend to more reflect the values of
> their individual communities. Unfortunately, the one I ended up working
> for was located in a really conservative area....
>
> Daron
> ________________________________________________________________
> GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
> Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
> Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit:
> http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.
>
> Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
> Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com
>
> To unsubscribe, set preferences, or read archives:
> http://www.egroups.com/group/Unschooling-dotcom
>
> Another great list sponsored by Home Education Magazine!
> http://www.home-ed-magazine.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
Lynda
Being for profit is fine. Finding a loop hole so that you take 66% of the
money for the company may at present be technically legal but not for long.
Lynda
money for the company may at present be technically legal but not for long.
Lynda
----- Original Message -----
From: <marbleface@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, November 02, 2001 7:59 AM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Choices in charters
> In a message dated 11/02/2001 2:32:34 PM !!!First Boot!!!,
freeform@...
> writes:
>
>
> > > That is the point, again. School districts are NOT making money.
> > > These
> > > charters are being run FOR PROFIT by folks such as Horizon and
> > > One2One, to
> > > name just a couple. One2One has changed their name but it is still
> > > business
> > > as usual.
> > >
> > No. HomeSmartKids of Knightsen is the only for-profit charter, as of the
> > end of last year. One2one is a national learning foundation run in large
> > part by the Milton Hershey foundation, and they have funded a variety
of
> >
>
>
> And being for-profit is actually legal. (Which I was trying to say
before,
> but my brilliant words got cut off!)
>
> Nance
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
> Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com
>
> To unsubscribe, set preferences, or read archives:
> http://www.egroups.com/group/Unschooling-dotcom
>
> Another great list sponsored by Home Education Magazine!
> http://www.home-ed-magazine.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
Elizabeth Hill
freeform@... wrote:
and signed up for this charter, mostly with the hopes of meeting other
homeschoolers in the area.
Possibly because the charter has audit worries, they've been asked to turn
in work samples every week.
Betsy
> >A friend of mine moved to Contra Costa County (CA) a couple of months ago
> No. HomeSmartKids of Knightsen is the only for-profit charter, as of the
> end of last year.
and signed up for this charter, mostly with the hopes of meeting other
homeschoolers in the area.
Possibly because the charter has audit worries, they've been asked to turn
in work samples every week.
Betsy
[email protected]
On Fri, 2 Nov 2001 10:59:24 EST marbleface@... writes:
HomeSmartKids did royally screw the state, in one year the guy raunning
it make around $600,000, as I recall... that was definietly not a good
charter, people got screwed. OTOH, that's one charter with a few hundred
kidds, and it's not representative of the rest of them... I talked to the
guy running it for a long time, and I figured out early on that he was
scum... he offered me lots of $ to go work for him.
dar
________________________________________________________________
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>Well, it is now but I'm not sure it will be for much longer...
> And being for-profit is actually legal. (Which I was trying to say
> before,
> but my brilliant words got cut off!)
HomeSmartKids did royally screw the state, in one year the guy raunning
it make around $600,000, as I recall... that was definietly not a good
charter, people got screwed. OTOH, that's one charter with a few hundred
kidds, and it's not representative of the rest of them... I talked to the
guy running it for a long time, and I figured out early on that he was
scum... he offered me lots of $ to go work for him.
dar
________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.
[email protected]
On Fri, 2 Nov 2001 10:43:40 -0800 "Lynda" <lurine@...> writes:
it's former charter schools. This is one side of the story, but I was
there and I know that many of the claims against one2one are without
merit...
affiliated with one2one national, but is a separate company) charges the
individual charters? Yup, they are high, but otoh, CSRA did all the
start-up work for these schools, and those fees were really about that as
well. The charters are free to contract with different companies after
their contract expires, I think next year for most of them...
curriculum and have the charters pay for it, because they are public
schools. Any catalog willing to accept purchase orders can become an
approved vendor, if the charter itself requests that they be approved.
Billy and Nancy Greer's F.U.N. (Family Unschoolers Network) Books was on
the list for at least two one2one charters last year (I specifically
requested them :-)... Borders was on our list, so were Nasco, Dick Blick,
Acorn Naturalist, and lots more... and yeah, so were Tobin's Lab and
Rainbow Resource, which are Christian but they have darn cool stuff at
darn cheap prices. Actually, many of the charters wouldn't allow
Christian companies to be approved just because they didn't want to give
the appearance of being only for Christian homeschoolers... Horizon
dropped Rainbow, for instance.
Dar
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> Even though they may be licensed as a non-profit, they are run to makemoney
> for the owners of the non-profits. One2One not only had todecentralize,
> they are being actively investigated for removing confidentialseveral other
> student files from charter offices, misappropriation of funds and
> offenses.I'm actually involved in a class action suit against one2one and one of
it's former charter schools. This is one side of the story, but I was
there and I know that many of the claims against one2one are without
merit...
>One2One or whatever they call themselves is not altruistic and theyYou mean the fees that charter school resource alliance (which is
> aren't
> doing anything to benefit the kids. They are in it for the money!
> They
> charge outrageous $$
affiliated with one2one national, but is a separate company) charges the
individual charters? Yup, they are high, but otoh, CSRA did all the
start-up work for these schools, and those fees were really about that as
well. The charters are free to contract with different companies after
their contract expires, I think next year for most of them...
>and push Christian curriculum telling chartersThis is simply not true. People cannot order any Christian based
> that
> only certain catelogs/companies can provide the resources they want
> when
> infact all the items are available without a Christian agenda.
curriculum and have the charters pay for it, because they are public
schools. Any catalog willing to accept purchase orders can become an
approved vendor, if the charter itself requests that they be approved.
Billy and Nancy Greer's F.U.N. (Family Unschoolers Network) Books was on
the list for at least two one2one charters last year (I specifically
requested them :-)... Borders was on our list, so were Nasco, Dick Blick,
Acorn Naturalist, and lots more... and yeah, so were Tobin's Lab and
Rainbow Resource, which are Christian but they have darn cool stuff at
darn cheap prices. Actually, many of the charters wouldn't allow
Christian companies to be approved just because they didn't want to give
the appearance of being only for Christian homeschoolers... Horizon
dropped Rainbow, for instance.
>And you can back this up?
> And while some of the charters they managed may be have benefited
> from their
> oversight, many, many were robbed!
Dar
________________________________________________________________
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[email protected]
In a message dated 11/02/2001 7:06:38 PM !!!First Boot!!!, lurine@...
writes:
rules for their area, but that doesn't mean they can't or won't be modified
as needed.
Nance
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
writes:
>An extremely good point. All of these charters start off with one set of
> Being for profit is fine. Finding a loop hole so that you take 66% of the
> money for the company may at present be technically legal but not for long.
>
> Lynda
>
rules for their area, but that doesn't mean they can't or won't be modified
as needed.
Nance
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 11/02/2001 10:50:02 PM !!!First Boot!!!, freeform@...
writes:
charters reviewed. Maybe the state is trying them on for size? I'm sure
some must be better than others.
Nance
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
writes:
> > And being for-profit is actually legal. (Which I was trying to sayWell, in the PA DOE's report on charters there were several different
> > before,
> > but my brilliant words got cut off!)
>
> Well, it is now but I'm not sure it will be for much longer...
> HomeSmartKids did royally screw the state, in one year the guy raunning
> it make around $600,000, as I recall... that was definietly not a good
> charter, people got screwed. OTOH, that's one charter with a few hundred
> kidds, and it's not representative of the rest of them... I talked to the
> guy running it for a long time, and I figured out early on that he was
> scum... he offered me lots of $ to go work for him.
>
> dar
>
charters reviewed. Maybe the state is trying them on for size? I'm sure
some must be better than others.
Nance
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Tia Leschke
At 10:43 AM 11/2/01 -0800, you wrote:
programs comes from. <g>
It's too bad, because I can remember reading about some of the first Calif.
ISPs in HEM or GWS and thinking that it was a positive step.
Tia
Tia Leschke leschke@...
On Vancouver Island
**************************************************************************
It is the answers which separate us, the questions which unite us. - Janice
Levy
>Even though they may be licensed as a non-profit, they are run to make moneyI think I'm beginning to see where your negative feelings toward public
>for the owners of the non-profits. One2One not only had to decentralize,
>they are being actively investigated for removing confidential student files
>from charter offices, misappropriation of funds and several other offenses.
>One2One or whatever they call themselves is not altruistic and they aren't
>doing anything to benefit the kids. They are in it for the money! They
>charge outrageous $$ and push Christian curriculum telling charters that
>only certain catelogs/companies can provide the resources they want when
>infact all the items are available without a Christian agenda.
>
>And while some of the charters they managed may be have benefited from their
>oversight, many, many were robbed!
programs comes from. <g>
It's too bad, because I can remember reading about some of the first Calif.
ISPs in HEM or GWS and thinking that it was a positive step.
Tia
Tia Leschke leschke@...
On Vancouver Island
**************************************************************************
It is the answers which separate us, the questions which unite us. - Janice
Levy
Lynda
Yes, I can back it up. I have the list of vendors for several of the
charter groups and for One2One. I also have material that they send out
when they are asked to recommend material. It is Christian, no 2 ways
around it, particularly when it clearly states on the cover of the material
"from a Christian perspective." It is one of the issues in one of the
lawsuits.
And I worked with one of the charters to help get their cumes back when
One2One sent a truck in over the weekend when they knew no one would be at
the portable that was used as the charter's office to remove all the files
and computers that the charter had paid for!
As to Horizon dropping Rainbow, well, it had nothing to do with Christian,
it had to do with items not shipped and fights over how much was or wasn't
paid.
Lynda
charter groups and for One2One. I also have material that they send out
when they are asked to recommend material. It is Christian, no 2 ways
around it, particularly when it clearly states on the cover of the material
"from a Christian perspective." It is one of the issues in one of the
lawsuits.
And I worked with one of the charters to help get their cumes back when
One2One sent a truck in over the weekend when they knew no one would be at
the portable that was used as the charter's office to remove all the files
and computers that the charter had paid for!
As to Horizon dropping Rainbow, well, it had nothing to do with Christian,
it had to do with items not shipped and fights over how much was or wasn't
paid.
Lynda
----- Original Message -----
From: <freeform@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Cc: <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, November 02, 2001 1:45 PM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Choices in charters
>
>
> On Fri, 2 Nov 2001 10:43:40 -0800 "Lynda" <lurine@...> writes:
> > Even though they may be licensed as a non-profit, they are run to make
> money
> > for the owners of the non-profits. One2One not only had to
> decentralize,
> > they are being actively investigated for removing confidential
> > student files from charter offices, misappropriation of funds and
> several other
> > offenses.
>
> I'm actually involved in a class action suit against one2one and one of
> it's former charter schools. This is one side of the story, but I was
> there and I know that many of the claims against one2one are without
> merit...
>
> >One2One or whatever they call themselves is not altruistic and they
> > aren't
> > doing anything to benefit the kids. They are in it for the money!
> > They
> > charge outrageous $$
>
> You mean the fees that charter school resource alliance (which is
> affiliated with one2one national, but is a separate company) charges the
> individual charters? Yup, they are high, but otoh, CSRA did all the
> start-up work for these schools, and those fees were really about that as
> well. The charters are free to contract with different companies after
> their contract expires, I think next year for most of them...
>
> >and push Christian curriculum telling charters
> > that
> > only certain catelogs/companies can provide the resources they want
> > when
> > infact all the items are available without a Christian agenda.
>
> This is simply not true. People cannot order any Christian based
> curriculum and have the charters pay for it, because they are public
> schools. Any catalog willing to accept purchase orders can become an
> approved vendor, if the charter itself requests that they be approved.
> Billy and Nancy Greer's F.U.N. (Family Unschoolers Network) Books was on
> the list for at least two one2one charters last year (I specifically
> requested them :-)... Borders was on our list, so were Nasco, Dick Blick,
> Acorn Naturalist, and lots more... and yeah, so were Tobin's Lab and
> Rainbow Resource, which are Christian but they have darn cool stuff at
> darn cheap prices. Actually, many of the charters wouldn't allow
> Christian companies to be approved just because they didn't want to give
> the appearance of being only for Christian homeschoolers... Horizon
> dropped Rainbow, for instance.
> >
> > And while some of the charters they managed may be have benefited
> > from their
> > oversight, many, many were robbed!
>
> And you can back this up?
>
> Dar
> ________________________________________________________________
> GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
> Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
> Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit:
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>
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> Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com
>
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>
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>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
Elizabeth Hill
Tia Leschke wrote:
And I'm beginning to grasp that the picture is a bit different when you are.
I was surprised when you said that the school program actually gives
independent-minded people your phone number. Are the financial incentives for
keeping these people in school different in BC than in most US states? Or are
Canadians less influenced by the power of money?
Betsy
>Hi, Tia --
> I think I'm beginning to see where your negative feelings toward public
> programs comes from. <g>
> It's too bad, because I can remember reading about some of the first Calif.
> ISPs in HEM or GWS and thinking that it was a positive step.
And I'm beginning to grasp that the picture is a bit different when you are.
I was surprised when you said that the school program actually gives
independent-minded people your phone number. Are the financial incentives for
keeping these people in school different in BC than in most US states? Or are
Canadians less influenced by the power of money?
Betsy
Lynda
They were until jealous schools attacked the ones that were doing something
good but, according to them, "stealing" their students. Instead of changing
programs themselves, they attacked the schools that were working to improve
the way they delivered services.
Also, the longer it has gone on the worse it has become. Now the fools in
Sacramento are looking to define what constitutes homeschooling. NOT a good
thing as at this point we are not defined or legislated.
Lynda
good but, according to them, "stealing" their students. Instead of changing
programs themselves, they attacked the schools that were working to improve
the way they delivered services.
Also, the longer it has gone on the worse it has become. Now the fools in
Sacramento are looking to define what constitutes homeschooling. NOT a good
thing as at this point we are not defined or legislated.
Lynda
----- Original Message -----
From: Tia Leschke <leschke@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, November 02, 2001 8:55 PM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Choices in charters
> At 10:43 AM 11/2/01 -0800, you wrote:
> >Even though they may be licensed as a non-profit, they are run to make
money
> >for the owners of the non-profits. One2One not only had to decentralize,
> >they are being actively investigated for removing confidential student
files
> >from charter offices, misappropriation of funds and several other
offenses.
> >One2One or whatever they call themselves is not altruistic and they
aren't
> >doing anything to benefit the kids. They are in it for the money! They
> >charge outrageous $$ and push Christian curriculum telling charters that
> >only certain catelogs/companies can provide the resources they want when
> >infact all the items are available without a Christian agenda.
> >
> >And while some of the charters they managed may be have benefited from
their
> >oversight, many, many were robbed!
>
> I think I'm beginning to see where your negative feelings toward public
> programs comes from. <g>
> It's too bad, because I can remember reading about some of the first
Calif.
> ISPs in HEM or GWS and thinking that it was a positive step.
> Tia
>
> Tia Leschke leschke@...
> On Vancouver Island
> **************************************************************************
> It is the answers which separate us, the questions which unite us. -
Janice
> Levy
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
> Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com
>
> To unsubscribe, set preferences, or read archives:
> http://www.egroups.com/group/Unschooling-dotcom
>
> Another great list sponsored by Home Education Magazine!
> http://www.home-ed-magazine.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
Tia Leschke
At 08:05 AM 11/3/01 -0800, you wrote:
Christian/inclusive lines like many of them? Sounds like you're going to
have to get pro-active on the state level. I think your current law is
similar to what we had in BC until about 1989. It didn't mention
homeschooling as such, but said that parents were exempt from sending their
kids to school if they were providing an education that a judge would
consider sufficient, or some such wording. Basically it meant that it was
up to the school district to prove that it wasn't good enough. When it
looked like the government wanted to do something different with the law,
our provincial organization got moving and did a lot of lobbying, etc. and
got the great law that we have now. If something like that is going to
happen, you want to get going on it and start convincing legislators
*before* HSLDA gets involved. Get as many people that are using public
programs involved as you can. Hook them in on the idea that they might
eventually want to be independent homeschoolers and would want the law to
make that possible. From some of the responses on this list, it sounds
like you could get a lot of them onside.
Tia
Tia Leschke leschke@...
On Vancouver Island
**************************************************************************
It is the answers which separate us, the questions which unite us. - Janice
Levy
>They were until jealous schools attacked the ones that were doing somethingDo you have a strong state group, or is it divided along
>good but, according to them, "stealing" their students. Instead of changing
>programs themselves, they attacked the schools that were working to improve
>the way they delivered services.
>
>Also, the longer it has gone on the worse it has become. Now the fools in
>Sacramento are looking to define what constitutes homeschooling. NOT a good
>thing as at this point we are not defined or legislated.
Christian/inclusive lines like many of them? Sounds like you're going to
have to get pro-active on the state level. I think your current law is
similar to what we had in BC until about 1989. It didn't mention
homeschooling as such, but said that parents were exempt from sending their
kids to school if they were providing an education that a judge would
consider sufficient, or some such wording. Basically it meant that it was
up to the school district to prove that it wasn't good enough. When it
looked like the government wanted to do something different with the law,
our provincial organization got moving and did a lot of lobbying, etc. and
got the great law that we have now. If something like that is going to
happen, you want to get going on it and start convincing legislators
*before* HSLDA gets involved. Get as many people that are using public
programs involved as you can. Hook them in on the idea that they might
eventually want to be independent homeschoolers and would want the law to
make that possible. From some of the responses on this list, it sounds
like you could get a lot of them onside.
Tia
Tia Leschke leschke@...
On Vancouver Island
**************************************************************************
It is the answers which separate us, the questions which unite us. - Janice
Levy
[email protected]
Lynda:> > > And while some of the charters they managed may be have
benefited
Christian materials do you claim they were recommending? I worked for
one2one, and the only materials that were officially permitted to be
recommended were state-adopted texts (gag, retch). Yes, some of the
catalogs were from Christian-based companies, but again, that couldn't be
ordered.
charter you're talking about, but I do know that when the new schools
were chartered, all of the materials that had been ordered through
one2one still belonged to one2one, and soem of the charters did try to
keep it when the students returned it.
were erroneously ordered (sometimes it was impossible to tell from the
description whether something was or was not religious), whereas other
vendors that csarried both secular and religious materials had agreed not
to ship Horizon anything with a religious basis.
Daron
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benefited
> > > from theirI said:
> > > oversight, many, many were robbed!
> > And you can back this up?On Fri, 2 Nov 2001 21:35:27 -0800 "Lynda" <lurine@...> writes:
> Yes, I can back it up. I have the list of vendors for several of theout
> charter groups and for One2One. I also have material that they send
> when they are asked to recommend material. It is Christian, no 2 waysmaterial
> around it, particularly when it clearly states on the cover of the
> "from a Christian perspective." It is one of the issues in one ofHow does this show that the charters were robbed? And what particular
> the lawsuits.
Christian materials do you claim they were recommending? I worked for
one2one, and the only materials that were officially permitted to be
recommended were state-adopted texts (gag, retch). Yes, some of the
catalogs were from Christian-based companies, but again, that couldn't be
ordered.
>be at
> And I worked with one of the charters to help get their cumes back when
> One2One sent a truck in over the weekend when they knew no one would
> the portable that was used as the charter's office to remove all theThe charter paid for the computers? I don't know specifically which
> files and computers that the charter had paid for!
charter you're talking about, but I do know that when the new schools
were chartered, all of the materials that had been ordered through
one2one still belonged to one2one, and soem of the charters did try to
keep it when the students returned it.
>Christian,
> As to Horizon dropping Rainbow, well, it had nothing to do with
> it had to do with items not shipped and fights over how much was orNope. It was because they insisted on shipping Christian materials that
> wasn'tpaid.
were erroneously ordered (sometimes it was impossible to tell from the
description whether something was or was not religious), whereas other
vendors that csarried both secular and religious materials had agreed not
to ship Horizon anything with a religious basis.
Daron
>________________________________________________________________
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Lynda
One2One "fronted" the materials such as computers until the money came in
from the state. Each student's account was "charged" for those computers.
The computers were not "provided" by One2One. Wasn't their money. They got
all of the "front" money back plus fees.
I have photocopies of covers and descriptions from inside various text that
One2One ships which are Christian material. They were sending out a little
ditty with recommendations to various charters and the test they were
recommending was Christian.
One item they recommened AND shipped is from Christian Liberty Press (which
is not listed in the catelog' description) and reads "well-documented
information about the influence of Christianity upon the Constitution" which
is also not part of the description in the catelog.
When they set kids up with computers it comes with curriculum which is
Tomorrow's Promise which is a Christian curriculum.
I have done the collecting for a group of parents that are filing in court
against One2One. One woman still doesn't have her son's cume back and it
has been two years. He wanted to do his senior year in the same high school
his father granduated from. he can't do that because he lacks the units.
And that is just one of many horror stories that have come out of both
One2One and Horizon run charters.
Lynda
from the state. Each student's account was "charged" for those computers.
The computers were not "provided" by One2One. Wasn't their money. They got
all of the "front" money back plus fees.
I have photocopies of covers and descriptions from inside various text that
One2One ships which are Christian material. They were sending out a little
ditty with recommendations to various charters and the test they were
recommending was Christian.
One item they recommened AND shipped is from Christian Liberty Press (which
is not listed in the catelog' description) and reads "well-documented
information about the influence of Christianity upon the Constitution" which
is also not part of the description in the catelog.
When they set kids up with computers it comes with curriculum which is
Tomorrow's Promise which is a Christian curriculum.
I have done the collecting for a group of parents that are filing in court
against One2One. One woman still doesn't have her son's cume back and it
has been two years. He wanted to do his senior year in the same high school
his father granduated from. he can't do that because he lacks the units.
And that is just one of many horror stories that have come out of both
One2One and Horizon run charters.
Lynda
----- Original Message -----
From: <freeform@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Cc: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, November 03, 2001 1:25 PM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Choices in charters
> Lynda:> > > And while some of the charters they managed may be have
> benefited
> > > > from their
> > > > oversight, many, many were robbed!
>
> I said:
> > > And you can back this up?
>
>
> On Fri, 2 Nov 2001 21:35:27 -0800 "Lynda" <lurine@...> writes:
> > Yes, I can back it up. I have the list of vendors for several of the
> > charter groups and for One2One. I also have material that they send
> out
> > when they are asked to recommend material. It is Christian, no 2 ways
> > around it, particularly when it clearly states on the cover of the
> material
> > "from a Christian perspective." It is one of the issues in one of
> > the lawsuits.
>
> How does this show that the charters were robbed? And what particular
> Christian materials do you claim they were recommending? I worked for
> one2one, and the only materials that were officially permitted to be
> recommended were state-adopted texts (gag, retch). Yes, some of the
> catalogs were from Christian-based companies, but again, that couldn't be
> ordered.
> >
> > And I worked with one of the charters to help get their cumes back when
> > One2One sent a truck in over the weekend when they knew no one would
> be at
> > the portable that was used as the charter's office to remove all the
> > files and computers that the charter had paid for!
>
> The charter paid for the computers? I don't know specifically which
> charter you're talking about, but I do know that when the new schools
> were chartered, all of the materials that had been ordered through
> one2one still belonged to one2one, and soem of the charters did try to
> keep it when the students returned it.
> >
> > As to Horizon dropping Rainbow, well, it had nothing to do with
> Christian,
> > it had to do with items not shipped and fights over how much was or
> > wasn'tpaid.
>
> Nope. It was because they insisted on shipping Christian materials that
> were erroneously ordered (sometimes it was impossible to tell from the
> description whether something was or was not religious), whereas other
> vendors that csarried both secular and religious materials had agreed not
> to ship Horizon anything with a religious basis.
>
> Daron
> >
> ________________________________________________________________
> GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
> Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
> Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit:
> http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.
>
> Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
> Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com
>
> To unsubscribe, set preferences, or read archives:
> http://www.egroups.com/group/Unschooling-dotcom
>
> Another great list sponsored by Home Education Magazine!
> http://www.home-ed-magazine.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
Tia Leschke
>Probably some of both. The way it works here (I think) is that the
>I was surprised when you said that the school program actually gives
>independent-minded people your phone number. Are the financial incentives for
>keeping these people in school different in BC than in most US states? Or are
>Canadians less influenced by the power of money?
government decides each year how much each district will get per kid. They
get extra for certain other things like kids with learning disabilities or
a certain percentage of native or esl kids. They don't get the money if
they don't have the kids, but then they don't have to provide any services
for kids that aren't enrolled. So the local boards really have nothing to
gain by enticing kids into or back into the system, though they do seem to
bargain a bit with parents who have labelled kids. I'd think that the
provincial government actually gains by having lots of homeschooled
kids. If all the kids who are hs went back to school, they'd have a hell
of a time providing for them. Even the kids on the distance programs like
we're on save the government money because there are no capital building
costs. The program we're with gets just a little more than half what
they'd get for a full time student in the classroom.
Tia
Tia Leschke leschke@...
On Vancouver Island
**************************************************************************
It is the answers which separate us, the questions which unite us. - Janice
Levy
Allison Crilly
I don't know about BC, but in Manitoba, a school is funded based on registration, not attendance. I didn't realize until this week that this wasn't the case in the States (on another board, a parent is being harrassed because her children are frequently late due to health problems.) Canada has quite a few distance and homebound type school programs, because some school districts have more square miles in their district area than they do students, so I think that the gov't has had to deal with these kinds of arrangements more than in the States. "Virtual schools" have existed here for decades, before the internet, lessons used to be broadcast to isolated students over the radio. Funding schools based on in-school attendance would mean that many northern districts and schools would get very little money.
Allison
Allison
----- Original Message -----
From: Elizabeth Hill
To: [email protected]
Sent: Saturday, November 03, 2001 9:08 AM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Choices in charters
Tia Leschke wrote:
>
> I think I'm beginning to see where your negative feelings toward public
> programs comes from. <g>
> It's too bad, because I can remember reading about some of the first Calif.
> ISPs in HEM or GWS and thinking that it was a positive step.
Hi, Tia --
And I'm beginning to grasp that the picture is a bit different when you are.
I was surprised when you said that the school program actually gives
independent-minded people your phone number. Are the financial incentives for
keeping these people in school different in BC than in most US states? Or are
Canadians less influenced by the power of money?
Betsy
Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com
To unsubscribe, set preferences, or read archives:
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http://www.home-ed-magazine.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Allison Crilly
Manitoba has a few programs, mostly high school. There used to be a ps registration program out of a rural school division. They would give $200/year for supplies and had no requirements whatsoever for reporting. That school division is currently under investigation for mis-use of funds in their adult ed programs, though, and all their distance programs have been shut down. The province loosened up the homeschooling regs this year, though, and made the process of notification easier and more painless. The main draw of the Lowe Farm school was that it was very easy to comply with the ed. laws, all you had to do was fill out the ps registration form (basically just name, age, address) and that was all that was expected from you for the year, while at the time the regs required an outline and pretty thorough description of your program.
Now the process is pretty easy, just a standard notification form, and two reports. The one in January just requires checkmarks next to the subjects if "student has progressed" LOL. I've already filled this one out. The June one has to be a bit more in depth, but still basically one sentence per subject, no grades, no outside assessment. All I have to write is how I've seen progress in the subject (ie: Owen reads comfortably on his own now.)
The only current programs (that I know of, but I'm not looking into PS help too much right now, LOL, we just got out of that) are two highschool programs. They both sound pretty flexible, and are not aimed only at homeschoolers, but also teen parents, kids who live on their own and work, and kids with chronic health problems. I don't know too much about how good these programs are, they're still pretty new. They sound quite flexible, there is a small classroom and a teacher set aside for the program, kids can decide how many courses they want to take, if they want to go to class, do class work in the hs room, or follow the provincial correspondence course. They can participate in sports, music classes, orchestra, etc. I don't know how independant the family really is, though.
Allison
Now the process is pretty easy, just a standard notification form, and two reports. The one in January just requires checkmarks next to the subjects if "student has progressed" LOL. I've already filled this one out. The June one has to be a bit more in depth, but still basically one sentence per subject, no grades, no outside assessment. All I have to write is how I've seen progress in the subject (ie: Owen reads comfortably on his own now.)
The only current programs (that I know of, but I'm not looking into PS help too much right now, LOL, we just got out of that) are two highschool programs. They both sound pretty flexible, and are not aimed only at homeschoolers, but also teen parents, kids who live on their own and work, and kids with chronic health problems. I don't know too much about how good these programs are, they're still pretty new. They sound quite flexible, there is a small classroom and a teacher set aside for the program, kids can decide how many courses they want to take, if they want to go to class, do class work in the hs room, or follow the provincial correspondence course. They can participate in sports, music classes, orchestra, etc. I don't know how independant the family really is, though.
Allison
----- Original Message -----
From: Tia Leschke
To: [email protected]
Sent: Friday, November 02, 2001 1:27 AM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Choices in charters
At 04:54 PM 11/1/01 -0800, you wrote:
>That is the point, again. School districts are NOT making money. These
>charters are being run FOR PROFIT by folks such as Horizon and One2One, to
>name just a couple. One2One has changed their name but it is still business
>as usual.
I think you are taking the situation that you're familiar with and
extrapolating it to cover all situations where there are charters or ps
homeschooling programs. The problem with that is that they aren't all like
that. I've explained how it works in BC. You're obviously familiar with
how it works in Calif., at least in your area. What about other
folks? How is it actually working in other parts of the States? At this
time, I think BC is the only province with these kinds of programs. In
Alberta, all homeschoolers have to jump through more hoops than the
Electronic bus families in BC. They get money, but have no choice to opt
out. I'm sure this is what a lot of people are concerned about, but it
didn't happen in Alberta because of charter schools or ps homeschooling
programs. It happened because some homeschoolers pushed for financial
support, and the government decided to give it to everyone, no opting
out. This is what we're working to prevent in BC.
>The money doesn't benefit kids, it doesn't even put too many people to work
>and those it does are paid minimum wages with the "owner" of these companies
>hauling in the $$.
I can certainly see why you're against these programs, the way they work in
your area. Can you accept that maybe it works better or at least
differently elsewhere?
Tia
Tia Leschke leschke@...
On Vancouver Island
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