Re: Late Readers
Joseph Fuerst
I'm with you on this one, Tia! My 'late reader' has caused me much *growth*
as a parent......after all, she's the oldest. And surely all those
'experts' were right when they said all that reading to your child will get
them reading at an early age!!
Suz
That's one reason that I wasn't concerned when it first became obvious that
he would be a "late" reader. I think I must have read hundreds of novels
to him, often novels that were geared to much older kids or adults. He
always understood them. (sometimes better than I did!)
Tia
as a parent......after all, she's the oldest. And surely all those
'experts' were right when they said all that reading to your child will get
them reading at an early age!!
Suz
That's one reason that I wasn't concerned when it first became obvious that
he would be a "late" reader. I think I must have read hundreds of novels
to him, often novels that were geared to much older kids or adults. He
always understood them. (sometimes better than I did!)
Tia
Kolleen
>I try not to be concerned, as his three older brothers all wentGeez Helen, is your unschooling beleifs ever being tested!!!
>through the same thing, and all are excellent readers now, but the
>worst (?) of them was reading by the time he was 14 (and I thought
>that was unheard of...). This kid's two years behind the mark and
>going for some kind of record!
>
>Helen
good luck.. i can't imagine how'd i'd react unless it happens to me...
kolleen
Sarah Carothers
Helen wrote:
who still isn't
showing much interest in reading at the grand old age of - brace
yourselves, dear readers - 16 next week. >
Question, Helen. How does he manage to, say, get around on the internet or research snowboards or whatever? Can he piece together stuff to get by or just not read, period?
wow.. you ARE one patient mama ;-)!
Sarah (wishing I was!)
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who still isn't
showing much interest in reading at the grand old age of - brace
yourselves, dear readers - 16 next week. >
Question, Helen. How does he manage to, say, get around on the internet or research snowboards or whatever? Can he piece together stuff to get by or just not read, period?
wow.. you ARE one patient mama ;-)!
Sarah (wishing I was!)
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Helen Hegener
At 10:16 PM -0500 12/28/01, Sarah Carothers wrote:
buddies, most of whom are older and much more experienced than he is.
They like to hang out with Michael because he's a good snowboarder
and does some very impressive grabs out on the slopes.
With the internet, which he loves to surf, he usually has someone
help him get started, most often me or his sister Jody. We just point
him in the general direction he's interested in, take him to a
general information site or do a search for whatever he's interested
in at Google, and then leave him on his own. From there I think he
gets by on trial and error. FWIW, Jody says he can actually read more
than he lets on. But I haven't seen much evidence.
Does anyone here remember our old columnist (and longtime GWS
contributor) Penny Barker? She often wrote about what she termed
"later literacy." Our book "The Homeschool Reader" includes a chapter
by Penny on the subject... I'll see if I can find the book (we've
been remodeling again) and post some of her wise words on the topic.
Helen
>Question, Helen. How does he manage to, say, get around on theResearching snowboards is easy - he just asks his snowboarding
>internet or research snowboards or whatever? Can he piece together
>stuff to get by or just not read, period?
buddies, most of whom are older and much more experienced than he is.
They like to hang out with Michael because he's a good snowboarder
and does some very impressive grabs out on the slopes.
With the internet, which he loves to surf, he usually has someone
help him get started, most often me or his sister Jody. We just point
him in the general direction he's interested in, take him to a
general information site or do a search for whatever he's interested
in at Google, and then leave him on his own. From there I think he
gets by on trial and error. FWIW, Jody says he can actually read more
than he lets on. But I haven't seen much evidence.
Does anyone here remember our old columnist (and longtime GWS
contributor) Penny Barker? She often wrote about what she termed
"later literacy." Our book "The Homeschool Reader" includes a chapter
by Penny on the subject... I'll see if I can find the book (we've
been remodeling again) and post some of her wise words on the topic.
Helen
Leslie
......Ah, Susan, I can certainly relate to your frustration. I've been trying to be patient with my youngest son, Michael, who still isn't
showing much interest in reading at the grand old age of - brace yourselves, dear readers - 16 next week. No, that's not a slip of the
keys..........
What exactly do you mean when you say your 16yo isn't reading. My 12yo doesn't show any interest in reading but he can do it. He's not very good at it, because he doesn't do it much, but again he can do it.
Now with math this is different because it doesn't work the same way. Unless someone shows him the procedure he doesn't seem to create or find the knowledge naturally. Well I guess you might say that he does but it's soooo basic. He can use money alright but he's not totally competent that's for sure. He has to count on the cashier for the correct change. He knows something of the value of things in dollars and cents and he knows something about measurement from cooking and building skateboard ramps etc... but he can't do math, like they teach in school, much at all.
I don't worry too much about language development because I intuitively understand the natural development of these skills . I don't have the same same confidence with math skills. My first was math wiz and he worked on Kumon math and kept a journal as his school/education routine. With my second two I've been totally unschooling mostly because my middle son, the genius/weirdo of the family, totally resists lessons of any kind. He didn't really begin to read until he was 10, and he still isn't at all interested in it, past reading a menu or directions for a video game, and he has no interest in learning math procedures. He likes to play video games, skateboard, snowboard, watch skateboard videos, watch TV, play with friends and visit with relatives.
So you all wouldn't worry if you were me, right?
Leslie
I do find myself feeling worried at times especially when there's a chance I might be asked to show an authority what he does and can do.
showing much interest in reading at the grand old age of - brace yourselves, dear readers - 16 next week. No, that's not a slip of the
keys..........
What exactly do you mean when you say your 16yo isn't reading. My 12yo doesn't show any interest in reading but he can do it. He's not very good at it, because he doesn't do it much, but again he can do it.
Now with math this is different because it doesn't work the same way. Unless someone shows him the procedure he doesn't seem to create or find the knowledge naturally. Well I guess you might say that he does but it's soooo basic. He can use money alright but he's not totally competent that's for sure. He has to count on the cashier for the correct change. He knows something of the value of things in dollars and cents and he knows something about measurement from cooking and building skateboard ramps etc... but he can't do math, like they teach in school, much at all.
I don't worry too much about language development because I intuitively understand the natural development of these skills . I don't have the same same confidence with math skills. My first was math wiz and he worked on Kumon math and kept a journal as his school/education routine. With my second two I've been totally unschooling mostly because my middle son, the genius/weirdo of the family, totally resists lessons of any kind. He didn't really begin to read until he was 10, and he still isn't at all interested in it, past reading a menu or directions for a video game, and he has no interest in learning math procedures. He likes to play video games, skateboard, snowboard, watch skateboard videos, watch TV, play with friends and visit with relatives.
So you all wouldn't worry if you were me, right?
Leslie
I do find myself feeling worried at times especially when there's a chance I might be asked to show an authority what he does and can do.
----- Original Message -----
From: Helen Hegener
To: [email protected]
Sent: Friday, December 28, 2001 6:18 PM
Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] Late Readers
>At 2:35 PM -0500 12/28/01, Joseph Fuerst wrote:
> I feel a "spell" coming on with being frustrated with 10yo dd's
>inability to read.
This kid lives to snowboard - and not much else. As I'm writing this
he, his cousin, and his best buddy are stalking around the house
barefooted but with their full snowboarding regalia dropped down
around their waists - they've taken a pizza break from hitting jumps
down in the creek...
I try not to be concerned, as his three older brothers all went
through the same thing, and all are excellent readers now, but the
worst (?) of them was reading by the time he was 14 (and I thought
that was unheard of...). This kid's two years behind the mark and
going for some kind of record!
Helen
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Sarah Carothers
Leslie asked:
So you all wouldn't worry if you were me, right?
Leslie
Let's set up our first meeting in N.C. ;-) It'll be a good excuse to travel around the US with our kids!
Sarah
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So you all wouldn't worry if you were me, right?
Leslie
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Oh, I'd be worrying because I'm a worrywart but I *shouldn't* be worrying! Seriously, I'd have to realize that the problem is *mine* and the beliefs I had ingrained in me and how wrong they are. So, no you shouldn't worry but yes, I can understand where you're coming from. It sure would be nice if we could all get together in real life and have a monthly de-tox night out to get over all this cr*p we were 'taught'.
Let's set up our first meeting in N.C. ;-) It'll be a good excuse to travel around the US with our kids!
Sarah
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Leslie
Oh, I'd be worrying because I'm a worrywart but I *shouldn't* be worrying!Sarah
Worry and Mother are synonyms aren't they? <bg> I sure do wish I had more opportunities to get together with people like you all on this list and your families! It's a lonely road sometimes, especially for the kids who don't understand all of the politics and are confused to find themselves marginalized by our lifestyle. They really want to be part of the action but when they join in they're unprepared and shocked by the hoops they have to jump through to participate.
During organized activities, like hockey or gymnastics, there is so little time to socialize that it's nearly impossible for the kids to connect in any significant way. My oldest made most of his friends this way, many that he still has today, as long as 10 years. But my younger one who doesn't excel at group sports, has to find another way, because in sports, unless your one of the best, no ones interested in you.
He has 3 friends from a short term school experience but they are all in school and are displaying the kind of hurtful cattiness and competitive behavior that's so common in the school setting and he is most often left feeling hurt and disappointed after a play time with these kids. At 12, he really craves being with other kids. He's not into boyscouts or anything like that either. He's into skateboarding and video games. I'm going to try snowboarding lessons but I know I'll have the usual problem that the kids he meets will live too far away for easy get togethers and none will be as desperate as my guy to connect because they all have so many local school friends.
Leslie
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Worry and Mother are synonyms aren't they? <bg> I sure do wish I had more opportunities to get together with people like you all on this list and your families! It's a lonely road sometimes, especially for the kids who don't understand all of the politics and are confused to find themselves marginalized by our lifestyle. They really want to be part of the action but when they join in they're unprepared and shocked by the hoops they have to jump through to participate.
During organized activities, like hockey or gymnastics, there is so little time to socialize that it's nearly impossible for the kids to connect in any significant way. My oldest made most of his friends this way, many that he still has today, as long as 10 years. But my younger one who doesn't excel at group sports, has to find another way, because in sports, unless your one of the best, no ones interested in you.
He has 3 friends from a short term school experience but they are all in school and are displaying the kind of hurtful cattiness and competitive behavior that's so common in the school setting and he is most often left feeling hurt and disappointed after a play time with these kids. At 12, he really craves being with other kids. He's not into boyscouts or anything like that either. He's into skateboarding and video games. I'm going to try snowboarding lessons but I know I'll have the usual problem that the kids he meets will live too far away for easy get togethers and none will be as desperate as my guy to connect because they all have so many local school friends.
Leslie
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[email protected]
In a message dated 12/30/2001 9:17:26 AM Eastern Standard Time,
leslie@... writes:
But I think I would not interfere with the process if that is what you are
asking. I would trust that it is all working out as it should. :)
living in abundance
lovemary
The love that you withhold is the pain that you carry - from lifetime
to lifetime.
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leslie@... writes:
> play with friends and visit with relatives.Wellllll. .. I might worry, because isn't that what mothers do really well?
>
> So you all wouldn't worry if you were me, right?
>
> Leslie
>
>
But I think I would not interfere with the process if that is what you are
asking. I would trust that it is all working out as it should. :)
living in abundance
lovemary
The love that you withhold is the pain that you carry - from lifetime
to lifetime.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sarah Carothers
Leslie wrote:
<During organized activities, like hockey or gymnastics, there is so little time to socialize that it's nearly impossible for the kids to connect in any significant way. My oldest made most of his friends this way, many that he still has today, as long as 10 years. But my younger one who doesn't excel at group sports, has to find another way, because in sports, unless your one of the best, no ones interested in you.
I don't *know* how to find other kids for my youngest to play with.
I'd like to hear any suggestions others have found helpful, though! So far, I've tried to think about famous people who talked about being alone and they turned out the way they did because of it. There are some days, though, that I just can't buy into that.
Sarah
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<During organized activities, like hockey or gymnastics, there is so little time to socialize that it's nearly impossible for the kids to connect in any significant way. My oldest made most of his friends this way, many that he still has today, as long as 10 years. But my younger one who doesn't excel at group sports, has to find another way, because in sports, unless your one of the best, no ones interested in you.
>I could have written that paragraph. It *is* sad to see these kids so lonely. That's one major area of our lives that I've yet to figure out how to improve. We've tried the hsing groups, even started one when we couldn't find a good fit but after a few years, that, too, exploded. :(
I don't *know* how to find other kids for my youngest to play with.
I'd like to hear any suggestions others have found helpful, though! So far, I've tried to think about famous people who talked about being alone and they turned out the way they did because of it. There are some days, though, that I just can't buy into that.
Sarah
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rumpleteasermom
I think I would worry if HE were unhappy or frustrated with the
situation. If he is content with things the way they are and not
causing major disruptions in the family dynamics, I would not
worry . . . much.
Bridget
situation. If he is content with things the way they are and not
causing major disruptions in the family dynamics, I would not
worry . . . much.
Bridget
--- In Unschooling-dotcom@y..., "Leslie" <leslie@j...> wrote:
> So you all wouldn't worry if you were me, right?
>
> Leslie
>