sharing knowledge, sharing lives
[email protected]
There has been some snarkiness lately intended to discourage or intimidate
some of the more confident people on this list. I would like to ask that
those who are willing to write and share their families' lives NOT be
intimidated into backing away from the invaluable help you're giving those
who come here asking for and wanting such help.
Unschooling doesn't come naturally to most people.
There are people come here desperately hoping to find those whose lives are
better than theirs are, whose children are learning more happily and more
easily than their children are, who have a better handle on how unschooling
works.
If, out of some odd sense of "fairness" or field-levelling we all begin to
say "Gosh, my life is no better than yours," or "Gee, I don't know any more
than you do," or "Golly, my ideas are no more valid than yours are" then WHY
on earth would this list continue? Are there REALLy people who will invest
time and money for strangers on the internet to validate and affirm their
total fear and confusion?
If people go to a Christian site they'll read about Jesus. If they look up
"Tupperware" they'll read about miracle plastics guaranteed for life. If
they look for La Leche League they'll find a world of people who DO probably
know LOTS more than they know about breastfeeding (if those looking aren't
lactation consultants who have nursed seven babies already, at least two of
which had textbook-level problems).
I hope for a long, long time people are able to come here and find people who
know more than they do about unschooling. And I hope those who have the
experience and the confidence continue to be willing to share, and aren't
shamed into silence by snide put-downs.
Sandra
some of the more confident people on this list. I would like to ask that
those who are willing to write and share their families' lives NOT be
intimidated into backing away from the invaluable help you're giving those
who come here asking for and wanting such help.
Unschooling doesn't come naturally to most people.
There are people come here desperately hoping to find those whose lives are
better than theirs are, whose children are learning more happily and more
easily than their children are, who have a better handle on how unschooling
works.
If, out of some odd sense of "fairness" or field-levelling we all begin to
say "Gosh, my life is no better than yours," or "Gee, I don't know any more
than you do," or "Golly, my ideas are no more valid than yours are" then WHY
on earth would this list continue? Are there REALLy people who will invest
time and money for strangers on the internet to validate and affirm their
total fear and confusion?
If people go to a Christian site they'll read about Jesus. If they look up
"Tupperware" they'll read about miracle plastics guaranteed for life. If
they look for La Leche League they'll find a world of people who DO probably
know LOTS more than they know about breastfeeding (if those looking aren't
lactation consultants who have nursed seven babies already, at least two of
which had textbook-level problems).
I hope for a long, long time people are able to come here and find people who
know more than they do about unschooling. And I hope those who have the
experience and the confidence continue to be willing to share, and aren't
shamed into silence by snide put-downs.
Sandra
[email protected]
In a message dated 9/26/2001 12:40:21 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
SandraDodd@... writes:
hopefully giving and receiving support. I definitely don't think my life is
better than anyone's. . . simply not for me to make that judgement, nor are
my ideas more or less valid. I make plenty of mistakes as a parent, an
unschooler, a human being. There have been times in my life where I have
parented very differntly from where I am at now. . . .I am not better now, I
am simply different, I am choosing differently, which to me, is what life is
about, the ability to choose differently in any moment, and become more of
Who I Am. If I felt that others were giving me advice or support based on
what I call "the betterness myth", then they would lose me. I hope (and know
I sometimes fail miserable) that I will not give advice in that manner. If I
do, I welcome being reminded of my words and beliefs. And it's fine for
others to disagree, in fact on this list, I would expect nothing less, but I
want to be clear about Who I Am in relation to this list and what I want to
be getting/giving in relation to it.
lovemary
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
SandraDodd@... writes:
> say "Gosh, my life is no better than yours," or "Gee, I don't know any moreFor me personally, I am on the list to interact with other unschoolers,
> than you do," or "Golly, my ideas are no more valid than yours are" then
> WHY
> on earth would this list continue? Are there REALLy people who will invest
> time and money for strangers on the internet to validate and affirm their
> total fear and confusion?
>
hopefully giving and receiving support. I definitely don't think my life is
better than anyone's. . . simply not for me to make that judgement, nor are
my ideas more or less valid. I make plenty of mistakes as a parent, an
unschooler, a human being. There have been times in my life where I have
parented very differntly from where I am at now. . . .I am not better now, I
am simply different, I am choosing differently, which to me, is what life is
about, the ability to choose differently in any moment, and become more of
Who I Am. If I felt that others were giving me advice or support based on
what I call "the betterness myth", then they would lose me. I hope (and know
I sometimes fail miserable) that I will not give advice in that manner. If I
do, I welcome being reminded of my words and beliefs. And it's fine for
others to disagree, in fact on this list, I would expect nothing less, but I
want to be clear about Who I Am in relation to this list and what I want to
be getting/giving in relation to it.
lovemary
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 9/26/01 2:08:48 PM Mountain Daylight Time, lite2yu@...
writes:
gone to school. You're basing a large chunk of your life on it.
<<There have been times in my life where I have
parented very differntly from where I am at now. . . .I am not better now, I
am simply different, I am choosing differently>>
If you didn't think it was better, why would you have changed?
I think not spanking is better than spanking. There are spankers who believe
that if they don't spank their children will pick the paddle up and whack
them! That someone has to be in charge, and "in charge" involves physical
danger to one party or another. I had a friend tell me once in front of
others that someday Kirby (who was four? five?) was going to grow up to hit
me. She said that because I wasn't a spanking mom and he wasn't a
sit-in-the-corner-silently kid. Now that both of us have teenagers, Kirby is
TOTALLY peaceable, and her child has struck her, I have heard from reliable
witnesses. Are we both equally right?
If one family has a child crying every night and being sick every morning
over some stress, and another family has ideas to help them prevent that, I
hope they won't say, "Well, who am I to say that crying is any worse than the
cheerful evenings at my house, and I'm sure what you're doing is as good as
what I'm doing, but..."
I don't understand where the "all choices are equal" rhetoric has come from
in the past ten years or so, and why people would be proud to say they are
making no progress (and basically, by that belief, that progress cannot be
made).
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
writes:
> I definitely don't think my life isBut you truly believe that it is possible to have successful kids who haven't
> better than anyone's. . . simply not for me to make that judgement, nor are
>
gone to school. You're basing a large chunk of your life on it.
<<There have been times in my life where I have
parented very differntly from where I am at now. . . .I am not better now, I
am simply different, I am choosing differently>>
If you didn't think it was better, why would you have changed?
I think not spanking is better than spanking. There are spankers who believe
that if they don't spank their children will pick the paddle up and whack
them! That someone has to be in charge, and "in charge" involves physical
danger to one party or another. I had a friend tell me once in front of
others that someday Kirby (who was four? five?) was going to grow up to hit
me. She said that because I wasn't a spanking mom and he wasn't a
sit-in-the-corner-silently kid. Now that both of us have teenagers, Kirby is
TOTALLY peaceable, and her child has struck her, I have heard from reliable
witnesses. Are we both equally right?
If one family has a child crying every night and being sick every morning
over some stress, and another family has ideas to help them prevent that, I
hope they won't say, "Well, who am I to say that crying is any worse than the
cheerful evenings at my house, and I'm sure what you're doing is as good as
what I'm doing, but..."
I don't understand where the "all choices are equal" rhetoric has come from
in the past ten years or so, and why people would be proud to say they are
making no progress (and basically, by that belief, that progress cannot be
made).
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 9/26/01 3:08:15 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
lite2yu@... writes:
gotten into a lot of the debates on this list. And I've really pointed a
finger at people telling them what I think about their stuff. And I've really
been thinking about why I get on here and what I want to give to/get out of
it.
I want to connect with unschoolers too. I'm starting to think that pushing
truth is not as valuable as providing personal experience and truth and
allowing it to be taken or discarded.
I am coming to trust my own process and growth. I make changes because I
believe, #1 they are an improvement and #2 I am ready to make the change.
There are many things that I would like to do differently in my own life, but
although I have all the information of why it's better, I have to allow
myself the time to adjust and change. And when someone is telling me that
I'm doing it wrong, and I need to change it, that process usually takes
longer. I tend to watch/read/learn about other people's stories and beliefs
and then say, hmmmm, they may have something. I want to know more about it.
Yet sometimes, I think that I'm different/better/special and not everyone can
do that, duh!
I believe that sharing knowlege, sharing lives is just that. This is really
a hypocritical post considering some of my previous posts, but hey, I'm
learning and growing all the time, and this is where I'm at now.
Brenda
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
lite2yu@... writes:
> II'm so glad you wrote that! I've been sitting on this one a lot. I've really
> want to be clear about Who I Am in relation to this list and what I want to
> be getting/giving in relation to it.
>
> lovemary
>
gotten into a lot of the debates on this list. And I've really pointed a
finger at people telling them what I think about their stuff. And I've really
been thinking about why I get on here and what I want to give to/get out of
it.
I want to connect with unschoolers too. I'm starting to think that pushing
truth is not as valuable as providing personal experience and truth and
allowing it to be taken or discarded.
I am coming to trust my own process and growth. I make changes because I
believe, #1 they are an improvement and #2 I am ready to make the change.
There are many things that I would like to do differently in my own life, but
although I have all the information of why it's better, I have to allow
myself the time to adjust and change. And when someone is telling me that
I'm doing it wrong, and I need to change it, that process usually takes
longer. I tend to watch/read/learn about other people's stories and beliefs
and then say, hmmmm, they may have something. I want to know more about it.
Yet sometimes, I think that I'm different/better/special and not everyone can
do that, duh!
I believe that sharing knowlege, sharing lives is just that. This is really
a hypocritical post considering some of my previous posts, but hey, I'm
learning and growing all the time, and this is where I'm at now.
Brenda
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 9/26/2001 6:24:23 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
SandraDodd@... writes:
looked at all the options, listened to my instincts, and made this choice.
The choices I have made for myself and with those I love and call my family
could be disasterous for another. . . I am pretty sure they would be for my
SIL, however, I would never consider my family better than hers or anything
resembling that. I feel sadness sometimes for her kids because I see the
sadness in their eyes, but I am getting off track of what we are talking
about really. I don't consider where I am today better than where I was 5
years ago. .. just different.
said, I don't think of it as better, just another choice.
<<<I don't understand where the "all choices are equal" rhetoric has come
from
in the past ten years or so, and why people would be proud to say they are
making no progress (and basically, by that belief, that progress cannot be
made).>>>
It certainly isn't rhetoric for me in any fashion. .. it comes from the
belief system I have. I understand that we don't share the same belief system
and that is okay. We don't really need to debate the merits of what I and
others believe or don't believe. . . my/our/yours beliefs simply Are. They
could change tomorrow or they could stay the same for many years. I will
probably hold onto this one for quite a while, just like I will unschooling.
My instincts tell me so. And those I have learned to listen to, because they
don't fail me.
lovemary
SandraDodd@... writes:
> I definitely don't think my life isIt doesn't mean I think I am better because of that choice. It means I have
> > better than anyone's. . . simply not for me to make that judgement, nor
> are
> >
>
> But you truly believe that it is possible to have successful kids who
> haven't
> gone to school. You're basing a large chunk of your life on it.
looked at all the options, listened to my instincts, and made this choice.
The choices I have made for myself and with those I love and call my family
could be disasterous for another. . . I am pretty sure they would be for my
SIL, however, I would never consider my family better than hers or anything
resembling that. I feel sadness sometimes for her kids because I see the
sadness in their eyes, but I am getting off track of what we are talking
about really. I don't consider where I am today better than where I was 5
years ago. .. just different.
>Because I learned more, started listening to my instincts more. . . as I
> <<There have been times in my life where I have
> parented very differntly from where I am at now. . . .I am not better now,
> I
> am simply different, I am choosing differently>>
>
> If you didn't think it was better, why would you have changed?
said, I don't think of it as better, just another choice.
<<<I don't understand where the "all choices are equal" rhetoric has come
from
in the past ten years or so, and why people would be proud to say they are
making no progress (and basically, by that belief, that progress cannot be
made).>>>
It certainly isn't rhetoric for me in any fashion. .. it comes from the
belief system I have. I understand that we don't share the same belief system
and that is okay. We don't really need to debate the merits of what I and
others believe or don't believe. . . my/our/yours beliefs simply Are. They
could change tomorrow or they could stay the same for many years. I will
probably hold onto this one for quite a while, just like I will unschooling.
My instincts tell me so. And those I have learned to listen to, because they
don't fail me.
lovemary
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
[email protected]
In a message dated 9/27/2001 12:17:18 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
brendaclaspell@... writes:
paradoxes we find ourselves in often. Thanks for sharing. . . the honesty and
truth you spoke from your heart and your willingness to look within tells
me a lot about Who you really Are. :)
lovemary
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
brendaclaspell@... writes:
> believe that sharing knowlege, sharing lives is just that. This is really:) Brenda. . . isnt that beautiful about life though. . . the wonderful
> a hypocritical post considering some of my previous posts, but hey, I'm
> learning and growing all the time, and this is where I'm at now.
>
> Brenda
>
paradoxes we find ourselves in often. Thanks for sharing. . . the honesty and
truth you spoke from your heart and your willingness to look within tells
me a lot about Who you really Are. :)
lovemary
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 9/26/01 11:37:27 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
lite2yu@... writes:
out/admit I was wrong, but when I get there on my own, it's very validating
and boosting to my confidence in my self and my process. I feel more relaxed
to live the way I see fit when I see that I will become aware of problems
if/when I need to be. Again, I want to allow that for others.
Thanks for sharing. . . the honesty and
Brenda
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
lite2yu@... writes:
> :) Brenda. . . isnt that beautiful about life though. . . the wonderfulYes and no. There's usually a pang of ickiness, however minute, to find
> paradoxes we find ourselves in often.
out/admit I was wrong, but when I get there on my own, it's very validating
and boosting to my confidence in my self and my process. I feel more relaxed
to live the way I see fit when I see that I will become aware of problems
if/when I need to be. Again, I want to allow that for others.
Thanks for sharing. . . the honesty and
> truth you spoke from your heart and your willingness to look within tellsSniff....aww shucks! :) Thanks.
> me a lot about Who you really Are. :)
>
Brenda
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Johanna SanInocencio
Growth. That is what life is about. The choices I make today are hopefully
better than the ones I made yesterday because I have grown.
Johanna
Life is the ultimate learning experience!
better than the ones I made yesterday because I have grown.
Johanna
Life is the ultimate learning experience!
----- Original Message -----
From: <SandraDodd@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2001 5:19 PM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] sharing knowledge, sharing lives
> In a message dated 9/26/01 2:08:48 PM Mountain Daylight Time,
lite2yu@...
> writes:
>
>
> > I definitely don't think my life is
> > better than anyone's. . . simply not for me to make that judgement, nor
are
> >
>
> But you truly believe that it is possible to have successful kids who
haven't
> gone to school. You're basing a large chunk of your life on it.
>
> <<There have been times in my life where I have
> parented very differntly from where I am at now. . . .I am not better now,
I
> am simply different, I am choosing differently>>
>
> If you didn't think it was better, why would you have changed?
>
> I think not spanking is better than spanking. There are spankers who
believe
> that if they don't spank their children will pick the paddle up and whack
> them! That someone has to be in charge, and "in charge" involves physical
> danger to one party or another. I had a friend tell me once in front of
> others that someday Kirby (who was four? five?) was going to grow up to
hit
> me. She said that because I wasn't a spanking mom and he wasn't a
> sit-in-the-corner-silently kid. Now that both of us have teenagers, Kirby
is
> TOTALLY peaceable, and her child has struck her, I have heard from
reliable
> witnesses. Are we both equally right?
>
> If one family has a child crying every night and being sick every morning
> over some stress, and another family has ideas to help them prevent that,
I
> hope they won't say, "Well, who am I to say that crying is any worse than
the
> cheerful evenings at my house, and I'm sure what you're doing is as good
as
> what I'm doing, but..."
>
> I don't understand where the "all choices are equal" rhetoric has come
from
> in the past ten years or so, and why people would be proud to say they are
> making no progress (and basically, by that belief, that progress cannot be
> made).
>
>
> Sandra
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
> Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com
>
> To unsubscribe, set preferences, or read archives:
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>
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>
>
>
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>
>
>
>
[email protected]
LOL ( snarkiness ?? )
I DO think my life is better than most people I know. I DO think I have
found a better way to be a parent. I DO think I have made better choices
for myself and my son.
I realize I'm lucky to be free to consider other possibilities and to
make different choices. I know not everyone has this luxury. I hope I
always see where I'm making mistakes and I hope I'm always brave enough
to fix them. And I think THAT'S better than not seeing and not fixing.
I DO want to be a better mom, better wife, better person, better
gardener, better daughter. I hope my son is a better person. I hope he
contributes to a better world. I hope we all find a way to be better
human beings.
Better is better. Unschooling is better. Chocolate is better.
Snark all you want!
Deb L
I DO think my life is better than most people I know. I DO think I have
found a better way to be a parent. I DO think I have made better choices
for myself and my son.
I realize I'm lucky to be free to consider other possibilities and to
make different choices. I know not everyone has this luxury. I hope I
always see where I'm making mistakes and I hope I'm always brave enough
to fix them. And I think THAT'S better than not seeing and not fixing.
I DO want to be a better mom, better wife, better person, better
gardener, better daughter. I hope my son is a better person. I hope he
contributes to a better world. I hope we all find a way to be better
human beings.
Better is better. Unschooling is better. Chocolate is better.
Snark all you want!
Deb L
Bridget E Coffman
> For me personally, I am on the list to interact with otherunschoolers,
> hopefully giving and receiving support. I definitely don't think mylife is
> better than anyone's. . . simply not for me to make that judgement,nor are
> my ideas more or less valid. I make plenty of mistakes as a parent, anhave
> unschooler, a human being. There have been times in my life where I
> parented very differntly from where I am at now. . . .I am not betternow, I
> am simply different, I am choosing differently, which to me, is whatlife is
> about, the ability to choose differently in any moment, and becomemore of
> Who I Am. If I felt that others were giving me advice or support basedon
> what I call "the betterness myth", then they would lose me. I hope(and know
> I sometimes fail miserable) that I will not give advice in thatmanner. If I
> do, I welcome being reminded of my words and beliefs. And it's finefor
> others to disagree, in fact on this list, I would expect nothing less,but I
> want to be clear about Who I Am in relation to this list and what Iwant to
> be getting/giving in relation to it.Posts like this give me heart . . . that my first impression of you all
>
> lovemary
and this list may have been colored by one or two people and is not
reflective of you all.
I too don't consider myself 'better' than others. We are all just
different and it is possible to discuss and help each other through rough
times without a 'I'm better at this so listen to me' attitude.
Bridget
OO oo 00 oo OO 00 oo OO oo 00 oo OO 00 oo OO oo 00
oo OO 00 oo
And the Geezer says:
"Back in my day, 'Astral Projection' meant mooning someone!"
Bridget E Coffman
> Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 18:19:11 EDTfrom
> From: SandraDodd@...
> Subject: Re: sharing knowledge, sharing lives
>
> I don't understand where the "all choices are equal" rhetoric has come
> in the past ten years or so, and why people would be proud to say theyare
> making no progress (and basically, by that belief, that progresscannot be
> made).It's not an 'All choices are equal' thing. It is a "There is no such
>
>
> Sandra
thing as one size fits all education" or a "There is no one right way."
You have obviously found a way that works quite well for your family as I
have for mine. I just don't believe my way is right for all. I do think
my experiences might help others and so I share, but I don't think my
words will help everyone I meet and I would never say, "You MUST do this
to make your family better." I do say, "We do this, because of that and
it worked for us."
Bridget
OO oo 00 oo OO 00 oo OO oo 00 oo OO 00 oo OO oo 00
oo OO 00 oo
And the Geezer says:
"Back in my day, 'Astral Projection' meant mooning someone!"
Bridget E Coffman
> Message: 12really
> Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 00:12:01 EDT
> From: brendaclaspell@...
> Subject: Re: sharing knowledge, sharing lives
>
> I believe that sharing knowlege, sharing lives is just that. This is
> a hypocritical post considering some of my previous posts, but hey,I'm
> learning and growing all the time, and this is where I'm at now.Brenda,
>
> Brenda
>
>
I don't consider it hypocritical. I consider it a sign of growth,
change, thought, whatever you want to call it.
Bridget
OO oo 00 oo OO 00 oo OO oo 00 oo OO 00 oo OO oo 00
oo OO 00 oo
And the Geezer says:
"Back in my day, 'Astral Projection' meant mooning someone!"
[email protected]
In a message dated 09/27/2001 4:37:26 AM !!!First Boot!!!, lite2yu@...
writes:
Nance
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
writes:
> In a message dated 9/27/2001 12:17:18 AM Eastern Daylight Time,Lovely exchange, ladies. Thanks!
> brendaclaspell@... writes:
>
>
> > believe that sharing knowlege, sharing lives is just that. This is
> really
> > a hypocritical post considering some of my previous posts, but hey, I'm
> > learning and growing all the time, and this is where I'm at now.
> >
> > Brenda
> >
>
> :) Brenda. . . isnt that beautiful about life though. . . the wonderful
> paradoxes we find ourselves in often. Thanks for sharing. . . the honesty
> and
> truth you spoke from your heart and your willingness to look within
> tells
> me a lot about Who you really Are. :)
>
> lovemary
>
Nance
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
> >Sandra said> > If you didn't think it was better, why would you have
changed?
>LoveMary said> Because I learned more, started listening to my
>
instincts more. . . as I
> said, I don't think of it as better, just another choice.You don't think lisenting to your instincts more, is a better way to
>
live??
I don't get this frame of thought. What's wrong with feeling some of
your choices are better than others? For me, there are times I am
not sure if my choices are the best I could make. Sometimes I KNOW I
could have made better choices, and then with things like unschooling
or breastfeeding, or staying at home with my kids, I KNOW I have
made the right choice. The best choice. And I DO think these
choices would be best for ALL kids, though I don't believe all
parents are capable or wanting, so it wouldn't be their best choice.
I respect all of my friends who send their kids to school and work,
or do school at home with them. I don't think our choices are equal
though.
I think I have chosen better for my family. If I didn't, why would I
do it?
And, I can feel all of this, without being a snob or rubbing it in
their faces. But, if someone asks me my opinion about schooling, or
children, I will tell them what "I" think is best.
Joanna
[email protected]
> Better is better. Unschooling is better. Chocolate is better.Confidence is better!!!
> Snark all you want!
> Deb L
Joanna
[email protected]
In a message dated 09/27/2001 1:57:18 PM !!!First Boot!!!, Wilkinson6@...
writes:
for my family. There is a difference between getting better at things for
you and yours and thinking we know what is better for others. A lot of it is
in the tone of things. I can talk to all sorts of people about all sorts of
things. But when one of them starts pushing her agenda, I lose respect for
that person -- schooling issue or other. Sharing versus dictating. Sharing
versus superior. Respectful versus harsh. Etc.
Nance
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
writes:
> But, if someone asks me my opinion about schooling, orAnd I would expect you to. I just wouldn't let you tell me how to do things
> children, I will tell them what "I" think is best.
> Joanna
>
for my family. There is a difference between getting better at things for
you and yours and thinking we know what is better for others. A lot of it is
in the tone of things. I can talk to all sorts of people about all sorts of
things. But when one of them starts pushing her agenda, I lose respect for
that person -- schooling issue or other. Sharing versus dictating. Sharing
versus superior. Respectful versus harsh. Etc.
Nance
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 9/27/2001 9:57:00 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
Wilkinson6@... writes:
I certainly cannot make that distinction for someone else. The myth about
betterness promotes separation in our society. . . it puts us in and "us
versus them" mentality. It puts us at war with each other. It puts us in a
heiarchy. I personally choose to not live like that anymore. I don't want to
be or feel separateness from others because I feel I am better/above/more
evolved than someone. I also don't want to judge what I have done in the past
by saying what I do now is better. Because what I did in the past got me to
this point. . . the process is all as it should be. . . I needed those
experiences to get to this point and beyond.
There is a wonderful passage from the book "Conversations wtih God" about the
betterness myth, and how it contributes to the way our society is and the
problems we face as a society. I will try and find it to post.
One last point is that I have no desire to change anyone's beliefs about
this. . . what I do enjoy however, is explaining what I do believe and fine
tuning that. Thanks for all those giving me that opportunity.
lovemary
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Wilkinson6@... writes:
> You don't think lisenting to your instincts more, is a better way toBecause for me they simply are not "better". They are the choices I make and
> live??
> I don't get this frame of thought. What's wrong with feeling some of
> your choices are better than others?
I certainly cannot make that distinction for someone else. The myth about
betterness promotes separation in our society. . . it puts us in and "us
versus them" mentality. It puts us at war with each other. It puts us in a
heiarchy. I personally choose to not live like that anymore. I don't want to
be or feel separateness from others because I feel I am better/above/more
evolved than someone. I also don't want to judge what I have done in the past
by saying what I do now is better. Because what I did in the past got me to
this point. . . the process is all as it should be. . . I needed those
experiences to get to this point and beyond.
There is a wonderful passage from the book "Conversations wtih God" about the
betterness myth, and how it contributes to the way our society is and the
problems we face as a society. I will try and find it to post.
One last point is that I have no desire to change anyone's beliefs about
this. . . what I do enjoy however, is explaining what I do believe and fine
tuning that. Thanks for all those giving me that opportunity.
lovemary
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
<< But when one of them starts pushing her agenda, I lose respect for
that person -- schooling issue or other. Sharing versus dictating. Sharing
versus superior. Respectful versus harsh. >>
Some of those are better than others, in your judgment, must be.
People share in their own tone of voice (ideally), and soem people like to
say "You think you're superior" as a way of saying "I'm not even going to
consider advice that's outside my comfort zone."
That's not horrible. It just is.
What is harsh for some isn't for others. What is 'gentle' for some is
irritatingly sweet and worthless to others.
So we can just read and like what we like and not like what we don't like. I
understand the concepts of "isness" and being and non-duality. It has its
uses for certain! But the monks who live there full time don't think that
eating pork is as good as eating rice, or that raping the neighbors is as
good as celibacy.
I think the concept is taken too far and used as a shield from information or
analysis sometimes.
Just because there is more than one truth doesn't mean there's no such thing
as bullshit. (I've said that before and I stand by it because I know people
who are HORRIBLE with their kids and there ARE better ways to be. And some
of them are NOT doing the best they can do, they have a veneer-thin overlay
of justification for child abuse, or they themselves are so hard-hearted and
cold that they don't see that their children are being harmed to the point
that they, those children, could become a danger to all of OUR children in
their frustration.)
I'm really fond of the agenda of this list being to support and encourage
unschooling and the clear thought and courageous self-analysis that I have
seen (in others' lives as well as my own) that contribute to that much better
than a muddy flowing along without examination.
I don't have any beliefs or practices I'm not willing to debate with others.
If it won't survive light and air and inspection, I'm MORE than willing to
dump it for a better practice or belief.
I hope sharing strong opinions isn't to be judged worse than sharing any
other kinds of opinions. And what kind of opinion would be "not strong"? An
opinion someone would base child-rearing on? Often people say "I don't know
why I sent her to first grade." They didn't have a strong opinion, they just
went with the flow, and when they come here and find enough ideas and support
to be brave enough to step out of the flow they feel better. They think
their children *are* "better"--better than they were before, not necessarily
better than everyone else's children in the whole wide world.
<<There is a wonderful passage from the book "Conversations wtih God" about
the
betterness myth, and how it contributes to the way our society is and the
problems we face as a society. >>
So that book is better than some other books you've read?
His ideas are better than some of the people's here in the forum?
I think John Holt's ideas are DAMNED good ones. I think he's a better
resource than James Dobson or Gary Ezzo. I think his ideas are better
because they honor children, and I think honoring children is better than
treating them as bundles of punishable sin.
Sandra
"Everything counts."
http://expage.com/SandraDoddArticles
http://expage.com/SandraDodd
that person -- schooling issue or other. Sharing versus dictating. Sharing
versus superior. Respectful versus harsh. >>
Some of those are better than others, in your judgment, must be.
People share in their own tone of voice (ideally), and soem people like to
say "You think you're superior" as a way of saying "I'm not even going to
consider advice that's outside my comfort zone."
That's not horrible. It just is.
What is harsh for some isn't for others. What is 'gentle' for some is
irritatingly sweet and worthless to others.
So we can just read and like what we like and not like what we don't like. I
understand the concepts of "isness" and being and non-duality. It has its
uses for certain! But the monks who live there full time don't think that
eating pork is as good as eating rice, or that raping the neighbors is as
good as celibacy.
I think the concept is taken too far and used as a shield from information or
analysis sometimes.
Just because there is more than one truth doesn't mean there's no such thing
as bullshit. (I've said that before and I stand by it because I know people
who are HORRIBLE with their kids and there ARE better ways to be. And some
of them are NOT doing the best they can do, they have a veneer-thin overlay
of justification for child abuse, or they themselves are so hard-hearted and
cold that they don't see that their children are being harmed to the point
that they, those children, could become a danger to all of OUR children in
their frustration.)
I'm really fond of the agenda of this list being to support and encourage
unschooling and the clear thought and courageous self-analysis that I have
seen (in others' lives as well as my own) that contribute to that much better
than a muddy flowing along without examination.
I don't have any beliefs or practices I'm not willing to debate with others.
If it won't survive light and air and inspection, I'm MORE than willing to
dump it for a better practice or belief.
I hope sharing strong opinions isn't to be judged worse than sharing any
other kinds of opinions. And what kind of opinion would be "not strong"? An
opinion someone would base child-rearing on? Often people say "I don't know
why I sent her to first grade." They didn't have a strong opinion, they just
went with the flow, and when they come here and find enough ideas and support
to be brave enough to step out of the flow they feel better. They think
their children *are* "better"--better than they were before, not necessarily
better than everyone else's children in the whole wide world.
<<There is a wonderful passage from the book "Conversations wtih God" about
the
betterness myth, and how it contributes to the way our society is and the
problems we face as a society. >>
So that book is better than some other books you've read?
His ideas are better than some of the people's here in the forum?
I think John Holt's ideas are DAMNED good ones. I think he's a better
resource than James Dobson or Gary Ezzo. I think his ideas are better
because they honor children, and I think honoring children is better than
treating them as bundles of punishable sin.
Sandra
"Everything counts."
http://expage.com/SandraDoddArticles
http://expage.com/SandraDodd
[email protected]
From http://www.conversationswithgod.org/tdyqa.html
Here's the question and answer of the day from the author of Conversations
with God. It's clear he thinks his stuff is better than some other (named)
stuff, and that it's good to promote what one believes is "a good message."
And the people writing here about unschooling have the dubious honor of doing
their promoting for free--donating their time to helping other moms.
Dear Neale.....
I am one of those readers who recently discovered CWG by its falling off the
shelf onto my head--"thank God!" Actually, I have been on "the path" for a
number of years (lifetimes) and I have read many books from all angles, but I
must tell you that this book was (and continues to be) a real knockout. I
gobbled down the book over the Christmas holidays and have not been able to
read anything else since (very unlike my personal habit...). Anyway, I got to
thinking about this change in my behavior and began to wonder if others were
affected in the same manner. My question: Is this turning into a "cult
thing"??? The book really moved me in a profound way and it makes me happy
that sooo many people are "searching", but it's beginning to look a little
"slick" with its having a Web Site, study groups, intensive workshops, etc.
I, like all the people out there who are getting involved, may be too
vulnerable and susceptible to its gravitational pull. Can you address these
questioning "feelings"?
Tom S.,
Blacksburg, VA.
Dear Tom.....
I’m going to admit here to being a bit sensitive to your kind of question. I
notice I often get my "hackles up" when someone says something like this. Not
for long. Just for an instant. Still, my mother would say, "Are you sure
that’s not because there’s a bit of truth to it?" Somehow I don’t think so.
I think it’s because I just haven’t yet gotten over the reaction I have to
certain negative, unhealed thoughts which roam the universe. For instance,
the thought that to do something -- anything -- which gets the word out to a
larger audience about God’s magical, magnificent love is somehow besmirching
the message or despoiling the process.
What I notice is that today even churches have web sites. It’s what’s
happening. A web site today is rapidly becoming like the telephone of
yesterday -- a simple, fast, expedient form of communication; an absolutely
essential apparatus; a means of getting and staying in touch. What’s "wrong"
with that? Why does having a web site suddenly render us "slick"? I think it
renders us smart. Does "smart" mean "slick"? If, in fact, our intention is to
help as many other people as possible hear more about, and benefit from, the
extraordinary message in Conversations with God, are we being too "slick"?
We could, of course, simply surrender the mass media and the Internet to the
people who really are being slick; to the purveyors of silliness and
pornography; to the sellers of trinkets and the hawkers and gawkers...but
somehow it seems that it should be okay for people who have a good message to
send out, to also use these avenues of communication. What do you think?
Now, about those Study Groups. We have had nothing to do with their
formation. They have been forming spontaneously all over the country and
around the world without any input or any request from us. Some of the groups
have written to us telling us of their existence, and asking us to let others
in their area know of their existence through our newsletter. We thought of
demanding that these groups disband at once because they would be seen as "a
cult thing," but we dropped that idea as too reactionary...
Finally, our workshops, seminars and 5-day intensives. Well, now, there you
have us, Tom. You’ve caught us red handed. Surely any organization or
movement based in fundamental truth and motivated by a sincere and pure
desire to simply share that truth in a way which it hoped would bring help to
others, would never hold a class or a retreat or a workshop. It is shameful.
It does have a high sleaze factor. It is "slick," there’s no question about
it. Imagine, holding an actual 5-day retreat to help people get more closely
in touch with the powerful message in this extraordinary book. We should have
known better than to try to get away with something like this.
Oh, Tom, Tom...I guess I should stop with the humor already (I suppose some
would call it sarcasm) and just address your question head on. Tom, Tom...the
whole point of Conversations with God is that we are each responsible for
ourselves. You talk about you and all the other people out there who are
"getting involved" in CWG being "too vulnerable and susceptible" for its
"gravitational pull." Do you seriously advance this as a reason for us to
stay off the web, prohibit study groups, and never give another workshop?
Shall we make ourselves responsible for you, Tom, and make sure we don’t do
anything that might "pull you into our clutches"?
Perhaps a better way for us to proceed, Tom, is to put together a program and
make information available which teaches people how to stop being so
"vulnerable and susceptible."
As my teenager would say..."Now there’s a concept!"
Blessed be.
Sandra
"Everything counts."
http://expage.com/SandraDoddArticles
http://expage.com/SandraDodd
Here's the question and answer of the day from the author of Conversations
with God. It's clear he thinks his stuff is better than some other (named)
stuff, and that it's good to promote what one believes is "a good message."
And the people writing here about unschooling have the dubious honor of doing
their promoting for free--donating their time to helping other moms.
Dear Neale.....
I am one of those readers who recently discovered CWG by its falling off the
shelf onto my head--"thank God!" Actually, I have been on "the path" for a
number of years (lifetimes) and I have read many books from all angles, but I
must tell you that this book was (and continues to be) a real knockout. I
gobbled down the book over the Christmas holidays and have not been able to
read anything else since (very unlike my personal habit...). Anyway, I got to
thinking about this change in my behavior and began to wonder if others were
affected in the same manner. My question: Is this turning into a "cult
thing"??? The book really moved me in a profound way and it makes me happy
that sooo many people are "searching", but it's beginning to look a little
"slick" with its having a Web Site, study groups, intensive workshops, etc.
I, like all the people out there who are getting involved, may be too
vulnerable and susceptible to its gravitational pull. Can you address these
questioning "feelings"?
Tom S.,
Blacksburg, VA.
Dear Tom.....
I’m going to admit here to being a bit sensitive to your kind of question. I
notice I often get my "hackles up" when someone says something like this. Not
for long. Just for an instant. Still, my mother would say, "Are you sure
that’s not because there’s a bit of truth to it?" Somehow I don’t think so.
I think it’s because I just haven’t yet gotten over the reaction I have to
certain negative, unhealed thoughts which roam the universe. For instance,
the thought that to do something -- anything -- which gets the word out to a
larger audience about God’s magical, magnificent love is somehow besmirching
the message or despoiling the process.
What I notice is that today even churches have web sites. It’s what’s
happening. A web site today is rapidly becoming like the telephone of
yesterday -- a simple, fast, expedient form of communication; an absolutely
essential apparatus; a means of getting and staying in touch. What’s "wrong"
with that? Why does having a web site suddenly render us "slick"? I think it
renders us smart. Does "smart" mean "slick"? If, in fact, our intention is to
help as many other people as possible hear more about, and benefit from, the
extraordinary message in Conversations with God, are we being too "slick"?
We could, of course, simply surrender the mass media and the Internet to the
people who really are being slick; to the purveyors of silliness and
pornography; to the sellers of trinkets and the hawkers and gawkers...but
somehow it seems that it should be okay for people who have a good message to
send out, to also use these avenues of communication. What do you think?
Now, about those Study Groups. We have had nothing to do with their
formation. They have been forming spontaneously all over the country and
around the world without any input or any request from us. Some of the groups
have written to us telling us of their existence, and asking us to let others
in their area know of their existence through our newsletter. We thought of
demanding that these groups disband at once because they would be seen as "a
cult thing," but we dropped that idea as too reactionary...
Finally, our workshops, seminars and 5-day intensives. Well, now, there you
have us, Tom. You’ve caught us red handed. Surely any organization or
movement based in fundamental truth and motivated by a sincere and pure
desire to simply share that truth in a way which it hoped would bring help to
others, would never hold a class or a retreat or a workshop. It is shameful.
It does have a high sleaze factor. It is "slick," there’s no question about
it. Imagine, holding an actual 5-day retreat to help people get more closely
in touch with the powerful message in this extraordinary book. We should have
known better than to try to get away with something like this.
Oh, Tom, Tom...I guess I should stop with the humor already (I suppose some
would call it sarcasm) and just address your question head on. Tom, Tom...the
whole point of Conversations with God is that we are each responsible for
ourselves. You talk about you and all the other people out there who are
"getting involved" in CWG being "too vulnerable and susceptible" for its
"gravitational pull." Do you seriously advance this as a reason for us to
stay off the web, prohibit study groups, and never give another workshop?
Shall we make ourselves responsible for you, Tom, and make sure we don’t do
anything that might "pull you into our clutches"?
Perhaps a better way for us to proceed, Tom, is to put together a program and
make information available which teaches people how to stop being so
"vulnerable and susceptible."
As my teenager would say..."Now there’s a concept!"
Blessed be.
Sandra
"Everything counts."
http://expage.com/SandraDoddArticles
http://expage.com/SandraDodd
[email protected]
In a message dated 9/27/2001 11:09:29 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
SandraDodd@... writes:
read, and offering it up as a possibility to consider. It is a book I like,
not one that is better than others I have read. His ideas are ideas, not
better than anyone else's. . . just something to consider. Is it in the
realm of possibility for you to accept that we have a difference of opinion
and stop trying to get me to see what you believe is the error of my
thinking? (that's what if feels like to me you are doing) Let me try one
more time. . . this is my belief system and how I try to live my life. You
can try and persuade me or show me ways this is "not correct" for days. It
won't change my thinking or belief. The only person who can do that is me.
And since my instincts or what I like to call my godself has led me to these
beliefs, it seems unlikely they will change very quickly or from someone
else's thoughts/ideas. They come from deep within my soul.
lovemary
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
SandraDodd@... writes:
> So that book is better than some other books you've read?Did I say that Sandra? No, I did not. I was simply sharing about something I
> His ideas are better than some of the people's here in the forum?
>
>
read, and offering it up as a possibility to consider. It is a book I like,
not one that is better than others I have read. His ideas are ideas, not
better than anyone else's. . . just something to consider. Is it in the
realm of possibility for you to accept that we have a difference of opinion
and stop trying to get me to see what you believe is the error of my
thinking? (that's what if feels like to me you are doing) Let me try one
more time. . . this is my belief system and how I try to live my life. You
can try and persuade me or show me ways this is "not correct" for days. It
won't change my thinking or belief. The only person who can do that is me.
And since my instincts or what I like to call my godself has led me to these
beliefs, it seems unlikely they will change very quickly or from someone
else's thoughts/ideas. They come from deep within my soul.
lovemary
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 9/27/2001 11:23:31 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
SandraDodd@... writes:
you would very clearly know this is not at all what he believes. You can
always find a way to take things out of context and take a snippet of
something to prove yourself right. We all can. It doesn't change anything
about what I believe or what many people believe. You want to be the "better"
person/unschooler/mom, etc. Sandra? Go right ahead. . . it serves your
purpose right now, and that is perfect as I see it.
lovemary
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
SandraDodd@... writes:
> . It's clear he thinks his stuff is better than some other (named)No it is not clear at all. . . if you took the time to read the whole book,
>
you would very clearly know this is not at all what he believes. You can
always find a way to take things out of context and take a snippet of
something to prove yourself right. We all can. It doesn't change anything
about what I believe or what many people believe. You want to be the "better"
person/unschooler/mom, etc. Sandra? Go right ahead. . . it serves your
purpose right now, and that is perfect as I see it.
lovemary
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
On Thu, 27 Sep 2001 08:37:02 -0400 Bridget E Coffman
<rumpleteasermom@...> writes:
"growing without schooling" to be better than the other options (i.e.,
enforced 'schoolwork' of any sort). Like, duh. That's why we're doing it
this way. Why would you decide to do anything if you thought that the
other choices were just as good?
Daron
________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.
<rumpleteasermom@...> writes:
> I too don't consider myself 'better' than others. We are all justI don't consider *myself* to be better. I do consider the way that we're
> different and it is possible to discuss and help each other through
> rough times without a 'I'm better at this so listen to me' attitude.
>
"growing without schooling" to be better than the other options (i.e.,
enforced 'schoolwork' of any sort). Like, duh. That's why we're doing it
this way. Why would you decide to do anything if you thought that the
other choices were just as good?
Daron
________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.
[email protected]
<< Is it in the
realm of possibility for you to accept that we have a difference of opinion
and stop trying to get me to see what you believe is the error of my
thinking? (that's what if feels like to me you are doing) >>
There are over 500 people here reading, and I'm not trying to have a
one-on-one conversation with anyone.
Sandra
"Everything counts."
http://expage.com/SandraDoddArticles
http://expage.com/SandraDodd
realm of possibility for you to accept that we have a difference of opinion
and stop trying to get me to see what you believe is the error of my
thinking? (that's what if feels like to me you are doing) >>
There are over 500 people here reading, and I'm not trying to have a
one-on-one conversation with anyone.
Sandra
"Everything counts."
http://expage.com/SandraDoddArticles
http://expage.com/SandraDodd
[email protected]
In a message dated 9/27/01 10:01:10 AM, lite2yu@... writes:
<< You want to be the "better"
person/unschooler/mom, etc. Sandra? Go right ahead. . . >>
HECK YES!
I want to be better today than I was before. I want to be better next year
than I am now.
I want to help give new unschoolers a head start so they don't have to take
as long to figure out easy ways as I did and some others did.
Sandra
"Everything counts."
http://expage.com/SandraDoddArticles
http://expage.com/SandraDodd
<< You want to be the "better"
person/unschooler/mom, etc. Sandra? Go right ahead. . . >>
HECK YES!
I want to be better today than I was before. I want to be better next year
than I am now.
I want to help give new unschoolers a head start so they don't have to take
as long to figure out easy ways as I did and some others did.
Sandra
"Everything counts."
http://expage.com/SandraDoddArticles
http://expage.com/SandraDodd
[email protected]
> . It's clear he thinks his stuff is better than some other (named)<<No it is not clear at all. . . if you took the time to read the whole
>
book,
you would very clearly know this is not at all what he believes. You can
always find a way to take things out of context and take a snippet of
something to prove yourself right. >>
First, WHICH book? He wrote lots of them.
And that wasn't out of context--it was the entirity of a web page marked
"today" (and there are other daily and weekly things there). I didn't pull
a single line or paragraph, I sent the whole thing AND the link. It's not
out of context at all.
Maybe he's changed his mind since he wrote that book. Or maybe his ideas are
broader than the one quote which was to be put here to defend the idea that
there are not better or worse things.
Neale Walsch clearly thinks his stuff if worthy of publication, purchase, a
website, and of being regarded as possible truth. Why is it virtue for him
and sin for people here?
Sandra
Sandra
"Everything counts."
http://expage.com/SandraDoddArticles
http://expage.com/SandraDodd
Tia Leschke
At 11:20 AM 9/27/01 -0400, you wrote:
(named) stuff. It's obviously that he thinks he's onto something good, but
I don't see anything else named that he thinks his stuff is better than.
Tia
Tia Leschke leschke@...
On Vancouver Island
**************************************************************************
It is the answers which separate us, the questions which unite us. - Janice
Levy
> >From http://www.conversationswithgod.org/tdyqa.htmlI don't see in that quote where he says his stuff is better than some other
>
>
>Here's the question and answer of the day from the author of Conversations
>with God. It's clear he thinks his stuff is better than some other (named)
>stuff, and that it's good to promote what one believes is "a good message."
(named) stuff. It's obviously that he thinks he's onto something good, but
I don't see anything else named that he thinks his stuff is better than.
Tia
Tia Leschke leschke@...
On Vancouver Island
**************************************************************************
It is the answers which separate us, the questions which unite us. - Janice
Levy
Tia Leschke
>This is great, as long as the head start is only offered. "Here's what I
>
>I want to help give new unschoolers a head start so they don't have to take
>as long to figure out easy ways as I did and some others did.
discovered along the way." Otherwise, it could be like wanting our
children to learn from our mistakes and not have to suffer the consequences
like we did. Ain't gonna happen. Our kids have to make their own
mistakes, even if they're the same ones we made. I think John Holt had
some things to say about unasked-for advice, as in the, "You should...."
Tia
Tia Leschke leschke@...
On Vancouver Island
**************************************************************************
It is the answers which separate us, the questions which unite us. - Janice
Levy
Tia Leschke
>I can see the possibility of school at home or a canned curriculum being
>I don't consider *myself* to be better. I do consider the way that we're
>"growing without schooling" to be better than the other options (i.e.,
>enforced 'schoolwork' of any sort). Like, duh. That's why we're doing it
>this way. Why would you decide to do anything if you thought that the
>other choices were just as good?
good for some families. I know I wouldn't do it, but I can't really say
it's because my way is better, just better for us.
Tia
Tia Leschke leschke@...
On Vancouver Island
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It is the answers which separate us, the questions which unite us. - Janice
Levy
Lynda
Congrats, Lovemary! It is so hard for some folks to let go of being
judgemental and I don't mean simply of others but of their own lives as well
and to stop equating change, growth, and different with better.
To look at everything as a journey, the past as the foundation of your
future, changes as growth and those changes as a step in that journey, not
necessarily as "better" but as "different" because of where you are in your
journey is hard for some.
Unschooling is all about the individual, trusting the individual to know
themselves, their wants, their needs and that individuality should be
celebrated and shared.
I haven't read too many books with "God" in their title as that is not part
of our spirituality. However, I am getting a different take on this book
after reading your thoughts about it. Guess I'll give it a glance or two.
I think you did a great job of explaining!
Lynda
judgemental and I don't mean simply of others but of their own lives as well
and to stop equating change, growth, and different with better.
To look at everything as a journey, the past as the foundation of your
future, changes as growth and those changes as a step in that journey, not
necessarily as "better" but as "different" because of where you are in your
journey is hard for some.
Unschooling is all about the individual, trusting the individual to know
themselves, their wants, their needs and that individuality should be
celebrated and shared.
I haven't read too many books with "God" in their title as that is not part
of our spirituality. However, I am getting a different take on this book
after reading your thoughts about it. Guess I'll give it a glance or two.
I think you did a great job of explaining!
Lynda
----- Original Message -----
> For me personally, I am on the list to interact with other unschoolers,
> hopefully giving and receiving support. I definitely don't think my life
is
> better than anyone's. . . simply not for me to make that judgement,
> nor are my ideas more or less valid. I make plenty of mistakes as a
parent, an unschooler, a human being. There have been times in my life
where I
> have parented very differntly from where I am at now. . . .I am not
better
> now, I am simply different, I am choosing differently, which to me, is
what
> life is about, the ability to choose differently in any moment, and become
> more of Who I Am. If I felt that others were giving me advice or support
based on what I call "the betterness myth", then they would lose me. I hope
> (and know I sometimes fail miserable) that I will not give advice in that
> manner. If I do, I welcome being reminded of my words and beliefs. And
it's fine for others to disagree, in fact on this list, I would expect
nothing less,
> but I want to be clear about Who I Am in relation to this list and what I
> want to be getting/giving in relation to it.
>
> > lovemary
> Because for me they simply are not "better". They are the choices I make
and
> I certainly cannot make that distinction for someone else. The myth about
> betterness promotes separation in our society. . . it puts us in and "us
> versus them" mentality. It puts us at war with each other. It puts us in a
> heiarchy. I personally choose to not live like that anymore. I don't want
to
> be or feel separateness from others because I feel I am better/above/more
> evolved than someone. I also don't want to judge what I have done in the
past
> by saying what I do now is better. Because what I did in the past got me
to
> this point. . . the process is all as it should be. . . I needed those
> experiences to get to this point and beyond.
>
> There is a wonderful passage from the book "Conversations wtih God" about
the
> betterness myth, and how it contributes to the way our society is and the
> problems we face as a society. I will try and find it to post.
>
> One last point is that I have no desire to change anyone's beliefs about
> this. . . what I do enjoy however, is explaining what I do believe and
fine
> tuning that. Thanks for all those giving me that opportunity.
>
> lovemary
[email protected]
<< This is great, as long as the head start is only offered. "Here's what I
discovered along the way." >>
How would I enforce it? ALL I can do is offer information and clarify what
I've said.
But I know more than what I personally have discovered along the way with my
own kids. I've discovered lots of other families along the way, too. And
not just successful families, but families in which they *kind of*
half-heartedly tried and then gave up. I think that information is sometimes
more valuable than the successful families.
<< I think John Holt had
some things to say about unasked-for advice, as in the, "You should....">>
Huh...
Why did he write those books then?
Why did he publish that magazine?
Sandra
discovered along the way." >>
How would I enforce it? ALL I can do is offer information and clarify what
I've said.
But I know more than what I personally have discovered along the way with my
own kids. I've discovered lots of other families along the way, too. And
not just successful families, but families in which they *kind of*
half-heartedly tried and then gave up. I think that information is sometimes
more valuable than the successful families.
<< I think John Holt had
some things to say about unasked-for advice, as in the, "You should....">>
Huh...
Why did he write those books then?
Why did he publish that magazine?
Sandra