The True Meaning Of Unschooling
[email protected]
For those that want to know what unschooling really is all about, all
the supposed experts in the world are not going to come up with "a"
definition. All those definitions are going to be colored by their
personal feelings of what it is or by their need to be "the" expert
with "the" answer.
Read, listen and then take what you need because the true definition
of unschooling is a life style that doesn't discriminate against
children because they aren't old enough to vote yet, a life style
that not only allows them a voice but a life style that actively
listens to their voices.
There is no one correct way to unschool and the experts can stomp up
and down and be blunt (spell that rude) and authoritarian and badger
people and try to wear them down by repeating over and over their
opinion (and it is only an opinion) but it won't change the
underlying facts, every child is an individual, all families are made
up of individuals and thus, there is NO ONE RIGHT WAY.
If there is only one rigid, unflexible definition of unschooling and
only one right way then that equates to "different dog, same smell"
and is no different than the public school system where everyone is
pigeon holed by "the" experts.
I, personally, have never understood how anyone can claim all this
expert knowledge when they have no finished product to prove their
theories. Would you go to a person to help you bake the perfect cake
if they had never done anything but mix ingredients together but
never finished the job by baking the cake to see if it would indeed
come out right?
So, my advise, look to those who are successful and not out tooting
their own horns. Look to the owner of this list. Helen has grown
children who are successful in life--happy and enjoying their life.
Look to people that will share their own journey with you such as the
people at Winona Farm.
And, in the final answer, trust yourself as you are the only one that
knows your own family and their INDIVIDUAL needs.
Tery
the supposed experts in the world are not going to come up with "a"
definition. All those definitions are going to be colored by their
personal feelings of what it is or by their need to be "the" expert
with "the" answer.
Read, listen and then take what you need because the true definition
of unschooling is a life style that doesn't discriminate against
children because they aren't old enough to vote yet, a life style
that not only allows them a voice but a life style that actively
listens to their voices.
There is no one correct way to unschool and the experts can stomp up
and down and be blunt (spell that rude) and authoritarian and badger
people and try to wear them down by repeating over and over their
opinion (and it is only an opinion) but it won't change the
underlying facts, every child is an individual, all families are made
up of individuals and thus, there is NO ONE RIGHT WAY.
If there is only one rigid, unflexible definition of unschooling and
only one right way then that equates to "different dog, same smell"
and is no different than the public school system where everyone is
pigeon holed by "the" experts.
I, personally, have never understood how anyone can claim all this
expert knowledge when they have no finished product to prove their
theories. Would you go to a person to help you bake the perfect cake
if they had never done anything but mix ingredients together but
never finished the job by baking the cake to see if it would indeed
come out right?
So, my advise, look to those who are successful and not out tooting
their own horns. Look to the owner of this list. Helen has grown
children who are successful in life--happy and enjoying their life.
Look to people that will share their own journey with you such as the
people at Winona Farm.
And, in the final answer, trust yourself as you are the only one that
knows your own family and their INDIVIDUAL needs.
Tery
[email protected]
On Sun, 16 Sep 2001 18:41:09 -0000 mom2kaalande@... writes:
about a life of real meaning, here and now. As adults, we can take that
life for ourselves, make our own choices about whatever we like.
Unschooling, I think, only offers children what they already deserve.
Freedom, time to find their own joys, make their own mistakes and pursue
their own interests.
Freedom and joy and fulfillment aren't things that are only valuable or
worthwhile at the end of a journey, as the reward for achievement. They
are really basic needs. I see my son happy and shining and loving his
life and I do feel like an expert. ( not that I ever claimed to be one
and can't remember anyone else doing so either ) Mostly I'm just
grateful the folks who figured it out before me were willing to share.
Deb L
> I, personally, have never understood how anyone can claim all thistheories.
> expert knowledge when they have no finished product to prove their
> TeryI have always felt unschooling wasn't about the finished product, but
about a life of real meaning, here and now. As adults, we can take that
life for ourselves, make our own choices about whatever we like.
Unschooling, I think, only offers children what they already deserve.
Freedom, time to find their own joys, make their own mistakes and pursue
their own interests.
Freedom and joy and fulfillment aren't things that are only valuable or
worthwhile at the end of a journey, as the reward for achievement. They
are really basic needs. I see my son happy and shining and loving his
life and I do feel like an expert. ( not that I ever claimed to be one
and can't remember anyone else doing so either ) Mostly I'm just
grateful the folks who figured it out before me were willing to share.
Deb L
Dawn
> Look to people that will share their own journey with you such asthe
> people at Winona Farm.Being new myself Tery could you tell me who the people at Winona Farm
>
> Tery
are and where I can read more?
Thanks
Dawn
[email protected]
My advise was that you listen to yourself as you are the only one who
knows yourself or your children. Do you have a problem with doing
that?
As to who I am, I am me. And I'm terribly wounded that you missed
the post about my grandson and the TinTin books. I mean that shows
that I have a grandson and that I have read more than one book.
No one asked *you* to listen to my advise, so don't. It is of little
import to me whether you do or don't.
As to knowing the names of someone's children, I hardly think that
makes them a reliable source. It simply means you know the names of
their children.
What part of the country do I live in, the West. How many children
do I have, 4 living. What ages are they, 3 are grown and on their
own and one is 17 and still living at home.
What else would you like to know? The books I am currently reading?
Good heavens, yes, that is an area we must cover. I wouldn't want you
to think I had only read one book, well, two since you had missed
TinTin. One would be on Pakistan, another would be about habitat
reclaimation and "Pipeline," a novel about the original oil drilling
in Alaska which was suppose to be the end all answer to our
dependence on OPEC oil.
What other things do you need to know, hmmm, well, I'm not a soccer
mom (don't care for soccer and wouldn't own a van on a bet), I think
keeping up with the Jones is pathetic, I don't belong to any
political party because although all of their philosophies have
something to offer, none of them walk the walk, they just talk and
talk and talk out both sides of their mouths. Ahh, and least we
forget the other big arguing point on all of these lists, religion, I
don't belong to any organized group, again, they all have something
to offer but they generally are all about me, me, me and everyone
else is wrong. I found my niche in an earthbound spirituality, no
phoney rules, no phoneys with their hands out for money.
Now, you have all kinds of answers and they don't mean a thing to
you, do they? You really didn't want answers, you have already
chiseled your opinion in stone "you don't care for Sandra's posts."
So, out of curiosity, why did you bother asking?
Tery
knows yourself or your children. Do you have a problem with doing
that?
As to who I am, I am me. And I'm terribly wounded that you missed
the post about my grandson and the TinTin books. I mean that shows
that I have a grandson and that I have read more than one book.
No one asked *you* to listen to my advise, so don't. It is of little
import to me whether you do or don't.
As to knowing the names of someone's children, I hardly think that
makes them a reliable source. It simply means you know the names of
their children.
What part of the country do I live in, the West. How many children
do I have, 4 living. What ages are they, 3 are grown and on their
own and one is 17 and still living at home.
What else would you like to know? The books I am currently reading?
Good heavens, yes, that is an area we must cover. I wouldn't want you
to think I had only read one book, well, two since you had missed
TinTin. One would be on Pakistan, another would be about habitat
reclaimation and "Pipeline," a novel about the original oil drilling
in Alaska which was suppose to be the end all answer to our
dependence on OPEC oil.
What other things do you need to know, hmmm, well, I'm not a soccer
mom (don't care for soccer and wouldn't own a van on a bet), I think
keeping up with the Jones is pathetic, I don't belong to any
political party because although all of their philosophies have
something to offer, none of them walk the walk, they just talk and
talk and talk out both sides of their mouths. Ahh, and least we
forget the other big arguing point on all of these lists, religion, I
don't belong to any organized group, again, they all have something
to offer but they generally are all about me, me, me and everyone
else is wrong. I found my niche in an earthbound spirituality, no
phoney rules, no phoneys with their hands out for money.
Now, you have all kinds of answers and they don't mean a thing to
you, do they? You really didn't want answers, you have already
chiseled your opinion in stone "you don't care for Sandra's posts."
So, out of curiosity, why did you bother asking?
Tery
--- In Unschooling-dotcom@y..., Cindy Ferguson <crma@i...> wrote:
>
>
> mom2kaalande@h... wrote:
> >
> > So, my advise, look to those who are successful and not out
tooting
> > their own horns. Look to the owner of this list. Helen has grown
> > children who are successful in life--happy and enjoying their
life.
> >
> > Look to people that will share their own journey with you such as
the
> > people at Winona Farm.
> >
> > And, in the final answer, trust yourself as you are the only one
that
> > knows your own family and their INDIVIDUAL needs.
> >
>
> So who are you? Why should I listen to your advice over anyone else
> on this list? I know the names about the children of several people
> who post regularly here. How many do you have? How old are they?
> What part of the country do you live in?
>
> I do look to Helen when she has time to post. But what worked for
> her children may or may not work for mine or yours or the next
person
> who reads the post. I enjoy reading what others have to say too;
> people who have shared some of their journey with others on this
list.
> And again I realize that worked for them and their children may or
may
> not work for me. All I know about you is that your name is Tery and
that
> you don't care for Sandra's posts... Oh, and you've read "Lies My
> Teacher Told Me".
>
> --
>
> Cindy Ferguson
> crma@i...
[email protected]
Here's a link http://members.nbci.com/winfarm/ They are a couple
who "have a passion and vision to keep unschooling growing." They
are radical unschoolers and the farm welcomes visitors for "hours,
days or weeks." I think they also put out a quarterly newsletter.
It is really interesting and they live a completely self-sustained
existance. They also known quite a few of the really radical
unschoolers if one is looking for another perspective on unschooling.
Tery
who "have a passion and vision to keep unschooling growing." They
are radical unschoolers and the farm welcomes visitors for "hours,
days or weeks." I think they also put out a quarterly newsletter.
It is really interesting and they live a completely self-sustained
existance. They also known quite a few of the really radical
unschoolers if one is looking for another perspective on unschooling.
Tery
--- In Unschooling-dotcom@y..., "Dawn" <NumoAstro@a...> wrote:
> > Look to people that will share their own journey with you such as
> the
> > people at Winona Farm.
> >
> > Tery
>
> Being new myself Tery could you tell me who the people at Winona
Farm
> are and where I can read more?
>
> Thanks
> Dawn
[email protected]
....> And, in the final answer, trust yourself as you are the only
one that
children MUST learn, and you enforce some sort of required learning
on them(because your gut tells you to do so), and you still want to
call yourself an unschooler, because you don't require "all that
other stuff", it should be perfectly okay to tell new homeschoolers
and others interested in unschooling, that what you do is
unschooling, because there is no real definition of it, and you like
the name?
I also disagree with your argument that someone must have a "finished
product", before they can talk about the benefits of the unschooling
lifestyle, and the trust they have in it. The benefits you can
clearly see in a child, given freedom and trust, at 10yrs old, is
just as important and considerable in discussions, as one at 20 yrs.
Joanna
one that
> knows your own family and their INDIVIDUAL needs.So.... if your "self" is telling you to insist on certain skills your
>
> Tery
children MUST learn, and you enforce some sort of required learning
on them(because your gut tells you to do so), and you still want to
call yourself an unschooler, because you don't require "all that
other stuff", it should be perfectly okay to tell new homeschoolers
and others interested in unschooling, that what you do is
unschooling, because there is no real definition of it, and you like
the name?
I also disagree with your argument that someone must have a "finished
product", before they can talk about the benefits of the unschooling
lifestyle, and the trust they have in it. The benefits you can
clearly see in a child, given freedom and trust, at 10yrs old, is
just as important and considerable in discussions, as one at 20 yrs.
Joanna
Diane
I don't know you, but I have met Sandra and her kids; she was one of the most
accomodating people I've ever had contact with, offering to put up my family
when we were in town, and cancel her Christmas shopping to do so, all on
about 2 hours notice.
But I also listen to the opinions of people with preschoolers, degrees in
something else entirely, or nothing at all! What!? No credentials!? And I
*speak* to these people?! Yes.
I also have friends with teens or grown children that I listen to, but many
of them have made choices that are not for me and my family. Still their kids
are "done" being kids, and are now young adults. They turned out OK. Should I
drop my life and copy theirs? No. Not I.
I know nothing about the Winona Farm people other than what I have seen
posted here. They are no more "valid" to me than any other family that posts.
Thank you for your advice, though. I'll keep it in mind.
:-) Diane
accomodating people I've ever had contact with, offering to put up my family
when we were in town, and cancel her Christmas shopping to do so, all on
about 2 hours notice.
But I also listen to the opinions of people with preschoolers, degrees in
something else entirely, or nothing at all! What!? No credentials!? And I
*speak* to these people?! Yes.
I also have friends with teens or grown children that I listen to, but many
of them have made choices that are not for me and my family. Still their kids
are "done" being kids, and are now young adults. They turned out OK. Should I
drop my life and copy theirs? No. Not I.
I know nothing about the Winona Farm people other than what I have seen
posted here. They are no more "valid" to me than any other family that posts.
Thank you for your advice, though. I'll keep it in mind.
:-) Diane
> > So, my advise, look to those who are successful and not out tooting
> > their own horns. Look to the owner of this list. Helen has grown
> > children who are successful in life--happy and enjoying their life.
> >
> > Look to people that will share their own journey with you such as the
> > people at Winona Farm.
> >
> > And, in the final answer, trust yourself as you are the only one that
> > knows your own family and their INDIVIDUAL needs.
Sarah Carothers
----- Original Message -----
From: Cindy Ferguson
To: [email protected]
Sent: Sunday, September 16, 2001 6:57 PM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] The True Meaning Of Unschooling
<<Oh, and you've read "Lies My
Teacher Told Me".
>>>>>>>>>>>>.
There's another good one, too. Radical Honesty.
Sarah
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Fetteroll
on 9/17/01 5:27 PM, mom2kaalande@... wrote:
allow her children to unfold naturally -- *if* she wants to learn how to
unschool, and her head is full of musts and shoulds, she often needs help
identifying what's getting in her way.
For instance if someone thinks that 3 meals a day is a must, but it's
interfering with her life and making her and her family miserable, she might
find it helpful to realize that people can exist just fine eating in other
ways. It's not something that most people will even think to question.
For many of us, it's difficult to separate what must be done from what we've
been told must be done. The way many of us were raised is *based* on having
the child trust that what the parent or teacher or other adult says is true.
(You must do your howework or you can't learn. You must go to bed early or
you'll be tired. You must eat a good breakfast or you'll run out of energy.)
I love structure and order. For me to have "followed my heart" would have
meant having my daughter do Calvert. It wouldn't have led me to unschooling.
I offer the advice I do (at least on the message boards!) because I know how
difficult it was for me to learn to identify where my "heart" and what I
believed was best for her was getting in the way of what my daughter needed.
So perhaps better unschooling advice is to learn how to listen to your
*child's* heart.
Hopefully the *Unschooling* list and website is a place to do that. It's not
a *follow your heart* list, though ultimately many will find that's what
they are doing once they identify all the garbage that was getting in the
way.
Joyce
> My advise was that you listen to yourself as you are the only one whoI think ideally following the heart is good advice. But if someone wants to
> knows yourself or your children. Do you have a problem with doing
> that?
allow her children to unfold naturally -- *if* she wants to learn how to
unschool, and her head is full of musts and shoulds, she often needs help
identifying what's getting in her way.
For instance if someone thinks that 3 meals a day is a must, but it's
interfering with her life and making her and her family miserable, she might
find it helpful to realize that people can exist just fine eating in other
ways. It's not something that most people will even think to question.
For many of us, it's difficult to separate what must be done from what we've
been told must be done. The way many of us were raised is *based* on having
the child trust that what the parent or teacher or other adult says is true.
(You must do your howework or you can't learn. You must go to bed early or
you'll be tired. You must eat a good breakfast or you'll run out of energy.)
I love structure and order. For me to have "followed my heart" would have
meant having my daughter do Calvert. It wouldn't have led me to unschooling.
I offer the advice I do (at least on the message boards!) because I know how
difficult it was for me to learn to identify where my "heart" and what I
believed was best for her was getting in the way of what my daughter needed.
So perhaps better unschooling advice is to learn how to listen to your
*child's* heart.
Hopefully the *Unschooling* list and website is a place to do that. It's not
a *follow your heart* list, though ultimately many will find that's what
they are doing once they identify all the garbage that was getting in the
way.
Joyce
Diane
I think this is a great point, Joyce. I know on some of the Attachment Parenting
lists they say one should "follow their instincts." My mental reply is always,
"In my family, we would never have been allowed to have instincts."
When I was a very young mom, 20 years ago, I followed what I truly thought was
best--put the baby in the crib to cry because nothing I could do seemed to help.
Was this my instincts? It was what I had at the time. Do I wish someone could
have told me it's not the only way--that I could do things differently, as I'd
never seen or heard of them being done? Yes. I think both the baby and I would
have profited immensely from that.
So I think you can't listen only to yourself, because you don't know what you
don't know.
:-) Diane
Fetteroll wrote:
lists they say one should "follow their instincts." My mental reply is always,
"In my family, we would never have been allowed to have instincts."
When I was a very young mom, 20 years ago, I followed what I truly thought was
best--put the baby in the crib to cry because nothing I could do seemed to help.
Was this my instincts? It was what I had at the time. Do I wish someone could
have told me it's not the only way--that I could do things differently, as I'd
never seen or heard of them being done? Yes. I think both the baby and I would
have profited immensely from that.
So I think you can't listen only to yourself, because you don't know what you
don't know.
:-) Diane
Fetteroll wrote:
> on 9/17/01 5:27 PM, mom2kaalande@... wrote:
>
> > My advise was that you listen to yourself as you are the only one who
> > knows yourself or your children. Do you have a problem with doing
> > that?
>
> I think ideally following the heart is good advice. But if someone wants to
> allow her children to unfold naturally -- *if* she wants to learn how to
> unschool, and her head is full of musts and shoulds, she often needs help
> identifying what's getting in her way.