Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Digest Number 1468
Wendy Silver
Hi,
I think people are naturally generous, kind and willing to help people
in need.
I find some people's compassion is numbed, because they assume that they
are already being generous by force and contribute to those in need, and in
my opinion, most of the contributions are dipped in too much before they
reach the needy, and enabling the bureaucrats.
One cannot force generosity, it is a character. I tend to resent
anything that is forced on me, and most people I know are like that
especially the home/unschooling crowd!
Mercy comes from within. If people that never learned how to share- have
their possessions grabbed from them, I don't think that will make them learn
mercy- on the contrary. That is what is wrong with socialism to me. So many
good intended laws are a waste, because people learn by experience and
example not by coercion and rules.
I think of Communism as a step further than socialism, but I need to read
and maybe re-think my position. Commune life seems somewhat romantic, but I
think it would stress me out, because I like to change my mind, follow whims
too much., and day in and out with the same people would get on my nerves.
This is probably just my narrow view of a hippie commune. The city I live in
was founded as a Commune, but it eventually became populated with non-like
mindeds and not everyone felt like sticking to the established rules.
Wendy
Just another thought about the following post from Julie....
" As far as Christianity and capitalism go, how can one be a pure
capitalist (supply and demand, etc.) and be merciful to those less fortunate
who are unable to provide for themselves. You have to turn to some kind of
socialism which is where the U.S. appears to be moving."
I think people are naturally generous, kind and willing to help people
in need.
I find some people's compassion is numbed, because they assume that they
are already being generous by force and contribute to those in need, and in
my opinion, most of the contributions are dipped in too much before they
reach the needy, and enabling the bureaucrats.
One cannot force generosity, it is a character. I tend to resent
anything that is forced on me, and most people I know are like that
especially the home/unschooling crowd!
Mercy comes from within. If people that never learned how to share- have
their possessions grabbed from them, I don't think that will make them learn
mercy- on the contrary. That is what is wrong with socialism to me. So many
good intended laws are a waste, because people learn by experience and
example not by coercion and rules.
I think of Communism as a step further than socialism, but I need to read
and maybe re-think my position. Commune life seems somewhat romantic, but I
think it would stress me out, because I like to change my mind, follow whims
too much., and day in and out with the same people would get on my nerves.
This is probably just my narrow view of a hippie commune. The city I live in
was founded as a Commune, but it eventually became populated with non-like
mindeds and not everyone felt like sticking to the established rules.
Wendy
Just another thought about the following post from Julie....
" As far as Christianity and capitalism go, how can one be a pure
capitalist (supply and demand, etc.) and be merciful to those less fortunate
who are unable to provide for themselves. You have to turn to some kind of
socialism which is where the U.S. appears to be moving."
[email protected]
In a message dated 9/13/01 12:59:50 PM Mountain Daylight Time,
[email protected] writes:
<< Just wanted to check in with everyone now that my dd
(Grace) is home. >>
So glad to hear this. I just saw a friend of mine at ballet and her BIL is
missing. He worked on the 104th floor of the first tower. He brother was
working on the 40th and he made it out. Her other brother who also works at
the WTC was on a train to Washington. She is driving home this weekend to be
w/ her sister and her 2 small children. My friend said she is just in a daze
now and trying to go on each day w/ her dd. Her sister doesn't know how she
is going to go on. This has been my thoughts ever since this happened the
spouses and children living w/out the person killed.It has now hit here in my
little town in Idaho.How unbelievably horrible.
NICKI~
[email protected] writes:
<< Just wanted to check in with everyone now that my dd
(Grace) is home. >>
So glad to hear this. I just saw a friend of mine at ballet and her BIL is
missing. He worked on the 104th floor of the first tower. He brother was
working on the 40th and he made it out. Her other brother who also works at
the WTC was on a train to Washington. She is driving home this weekend to be
w/ her sister and her 2 small children. My friend said she is just in a daze
now and trying to go on each day w/ her dd. Her sister doesn't know how she
is going to go on. This has been my thoughts ever since this happened the
spouses and children living w/out the person killed.It has now hit here in my
little town in Idaho.How unbelievably horrible.
NICKI~
Julie Stauffer
<<It has proven over and over again it can't work>>
There has yet to be a communist country so we really don't know.
What we do know is that moving to communism through socialism doesn't work.
The socialists like the control and communism never materializes. We do
know that communism works in small groups.
The basic premise of communism is give by commitment, take by need. To give
by commitment, people must believe that their society, commune, family,
whatever the group is important to them and they are important to it. If
the group disenfranchises the individual, the group suffers. To take by
need, people must believe that there is enough to go around, that things are
plentiful. If not, people become greedy and stingy.
In communism, the society must meet the needs of the people. It cannot be
dictated by the few or the powerful or the entire society would fall apart.
That is why it cannot move through socialism and that is why
"communism-lite", as I think of the common perception in the U.S. of
communism, is unworkable.
Julie
There has yet to be a communist country so we really don't know.
What we do know is that moving to communism through socialism doesn't work.
The socialists like the control and communism never materializes. We do
know that communism works in small groups.
The basic premise of communism is give by commitment, take by need. To give
by commitment, people must believe that their society, commune, family,
whatever the group is important to them and they are important to it. If
the group disenfranchises the individual, the group suffers. To take by
need, people must believe that there is enough to go around, that things are
plentiful. If not, people become greedy and stingy.
In communism, the society must meet the needs of the people. It cannot be
dictated by the few or the powerful or the entire society would fall apart.
That is why it cannot move through socialism and that is why
"communism-lite", as I think of the common perception in the U.S. of
communism, is unworkable.
Julie
Julie Stauffer
<<but ultimately people have the desire to do and be more>>
do and be more....what?
Julie
do and be more....what?
Julie
Julie Stauffer
<<all social programs do is breed laziness>>
<ultimately people want to do and be more>>
Which is it?
Also, communism isn't about "social programs". It is about getting rid of
wages all together. It is the difference between tying a kid's spending
money to the amount of work done around the house vs. the kid helping out
because he is part of the family and having access to money based on need
and being part of the family. It is about less control, not more.
Julie
<ultimately people want to do and be more>>
Which is it?
Also, communism isn't about "social programs". It is about getting rid of
wages all together. It is the difference between tying a kid's spending
money to the amount of work done around the house vs. the kid helping out
because he is part of the family and having access to money based on need
and being part of the family. It is about less control, not more.
Julie
Julie Stauffer
<<unable to provide for themselves>>
I'm thinking the mentally ill, mentally retarded, the profoundly disabled.
If you want to argue welfare, you are barking up the wrong tree. Welfare is
socialism, not communism, and I agree with you that it isn't the answer.
Julie
I'm thinking the mentally ill, mentally retarded, the profoundly disabled.
If you want to argue welfare, you are barking up the wrong tree. Welfare is
socialism, not communism, and I agree with you that it isn't the answer.
Julie
R Meyers
Perhaps its this history of socialism turning into communism that makes me say it can't work. The few examples I've seen of communism at works, fails miserably. The one thing this conversation has done is made me look into communism much more. Some of my original assumptions were wrong so I've been enlightened. I still disagree with the concept but at least I'm more educated.
Rachel
Rachel
----- Original Message -----
From: Julie Stauffer
To: [email protected]
Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2001 8:12 PM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Digest Number 1468
<<It has proven over and over again it can't work>>
There has yet to be a communist country so we really don't know.
What we do know is that moving to communism through socialism doesn't work.
The socialists like the control and communism never materializes. We do
know that communism works in small groups.
The basic premise of communism is give by commitment, take by need. To give
by commitment, people must believe that their society, commune, family,
whatever the group is important to them and they are important to it. If
the group disenfranchises the individual, the group suffers. To take by
need, people must believe that there is enough to go around, that things are
plentiful. If not, people become greedy and stingy.
In communism, the society must meet the needs of the people. It cannot be
dictated by the few or the powerful or the entire society would fall apart.
That is why it cannot move through socialism and that is why
"communism-lite", as I think of the common perception in the U.S. of
communism, is unworkable.
Julie
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