[email protected]

The shouting down of an individual with a few supporters will not keep me
from helping unschoolers.

I have never "self-proclaimed" myself anything except available and willing
to help unschoolers.

Out of support for HEM and unschooling.com, I am on this list instead of
starting my own.

Part of the problem, I believe, is that a few people have equated me and
Lynda in their summaries or reviews or peace-making here over the past few
months which emboldened Lynda to treat me extremely badly. What benefit
there is to her or any of the Arab world, I can't imagine except that perhaps
it is the joy of troublemaking, which I have proposed before. I can't prove
that nor should I have to try. It speaks for itself.

A few months back I asked Lynda where she lived and how old her kids were,
and the response was a tirade without that information.

A few days ago I answered personal questions directly and honestly, and two
of those answers have already been turned to personal insult by Lynda (the
English degree comment and the journalistic tendencies comment).

There are other insults I could answer directly and misconceptions
(purposeful or not) I could refute, but I much prefer to get back to topic.

How many dogs bite, how many psychiatrists don't care about family dynamics,
how many hundreds of years the opinion of gun owners in northern California
has been known to Lynda and how to dry pears are all entirely side issues.

Side issues are fine. To me, truth is very important, and documentation for
statements is important. But I come to this list to discuss unschooling, and
I will continue to do so.

I hope any of those on the list who are tempted to dismiss problems with a
simple yet false comparison of me and Lynda will either stick around a while
and see whether unschooling is being discussed, or will check the archives of
this list to see whether we are equal in our focus on unschooling.

Sandra

Bridget E Coffman

On Thu, 13 Sep 2001 12:19:18 EDT SandraDodd@... writes:
>
> I hope any of those on the list who are tempted to dismiss problems
with a
> simple yet false comparison of me and Lynda will either stick around a
while
> and see whether unschooling is being discussed, or will check the
archives of
> this list to see whether we are equal in our focus on unschooling.
>
> Sandra
>

I don't know whether you are equal in your focus on unschooling but I do
know which of you accused me of being a social
vandal who doesn't understand the dynamics of her own family.

Bridget

~~~~~~~~~~~~ F u cn rd ths u cnt spl wrth a dm! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

If electricity comes from electrons . . .
. . . does that mean that morality comes from morons?

[email protected]

In a message dated 9/13/2001 12:41:36 PM Central Daylight Time,
SandraDodd@... writes:

<< The shouting down of an individual with a few supporters will not keep me
from helping unschoolers. >>


I think that you have helped countless people Sandra and I am sure that most
do not want you to leave this list. I think the reason that many do not say
much in your support is that they hate to be verbally attacked next.

I am glad that you are staying around. Knew you would. :)

Candace

[email protected]

In a message dated 9/13/01 6:03:40 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
discovery6@... writes:


> I think that you have helped countless people Sandra and I am sure that most
> do not want you to leave this list. I think the reason that many do not say
> much in your support is that they hate to be verbally attacked next.
> I am glad that you are staying around. Knew you would. :)
> Candace
>

I don't want you to go either!!!! I didn't think that was even a slight
possibility...I hope it isn't.

Sandra, I think you have a tremendous position to offer wisdom and insight.
You are into the wise and confident phase of life and yet you still have
fairly young children. So while I feel the age/wisdom from you, I can also
relate in a not too distant way to you because your children aren't grown and
married. I think you offer direct truth, which can be very painful when we
are too far from truth. And with my own tv debate, I got upset by your direct
point-blank manner, because it hurt. But it only hurt because it was true.
But then I had to ask myself, would I rather someone spare my feelings and
let me go in the wrong direction or speak truth that may hurt me but
ultimately help me and my son. I'd much rather someone tell me. Otherwise, me
and my untruths have just been dismissed, disregarded, unchanged.

So I'll stick up for ya too. I haven't followed all the debates and
bickering, but I'm very grateful that you're on here. I would certainly hope
that no one would verbally attack me for admiring someone's wisdom and
wishing to learn from them.

Brenda



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 9/13/01 7:27:52 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
rumpleteasermom@... writes:


> but I do
> know which of you accused me of being a social
> vandal who doesn't understand the dynamics of her own family.
>

Bridget,

I never read those words on one of Sandra's posts, maybe I missed it but I
doubt it. my opinion is that she was trying to tell you what she saw as the
truth of what you were saying. I really doubt that her purpose was to hurt
you or insult you or your family. I believe she was trying to share a truth
with you that she thought could help you. If you don't agree with her, I
would say dismiss the whole thing and we can all stop bickering and insulting.

Brenda




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Carolyn

For what it's worth.

I started homeschooling my now 11 year old daughter almost a year ago.
On day one, my daughter made a public school schedule for us to keep
with recesses and lunch break complete. We didn't last one day at that,
thank goodness.

It didn't take long for me to discover deschooling and unschooling.
Sandra and unschooling.com played a large roll in my discovery and our
process and I've been a very grateful (mostly quiet) member on this list
since then.

Initially, I was struck by what I perceived as Sandra's bluntness but,
being who I am, I liked it. A lot. Many, many of her postings have
really helped me and my family.

Recently, I saw her speak at the HSC conference. I was surprised to
hear how funny she is. Delightful! If you've been on the net for any
time at all, I think you've probably figured out that you really can't
put an accurate "tone of voice" on someone's postings a lot of the time,
even with all the little emoticons we have developed. Sometimes, you
just read it wrong; it's so easy to misinterpret the feeling with which
the words are written. After some painful mistakes, I try not to assume
that anyone is feeling what I think they are as I read their words.

As school started up again this year and my daughter expressed some
desire to go to middle school, I felt desperate to find a way to get her
to agree to give homeschooling more of a chance. I turned again to
Sandra's words and unschooling.com.

I found Sandra's article with the suggestion of paying her half (or all)
of what we'd spend if we sent her to public school. We didn't end up
needing to do that but I take great comfort in having that idea as my
last resort. Again, she has agreed (with occasional mixed feelings --
all of which we are trying to address) that she wants to homeschool. At
this age, at this time, in this town, I'm willing to go to great lengths
to have her agree to homeschool. (I don't think I'm willing to force
homeschooling, to actually prohibit public school if she makes up her
mind but we haven't yet gotten to that point.) Later on, we shall see.

This has not been an easy year for us. I've had to look at myself and
my behavior a lot. I needed to challenge many of my assumptions and
beliefs and many of them have had to change. Sandra, more than anyone
else, has helped me in that uncomfortable process.

I owe Sandra an enormous debt of gratitude. I've never talked to the
woman and she doesn't have a clue who I am. So I say now: Thank You.
I certainly wouldn't have gotten here without you.

Carolyn

Bridget E Coffman

On Thu, 13 Sep 2001 20:36:46 EDT brendaclaspell@... writes:
> Bridget,
>
> I never read those words on one of Sandra's posts, maybe I missed it
but I
> doubt it. my opinion is that she was trying to tell you what she saw
as the
> truth of what you were saying. I really doubt that her purpose was to
hurt
> you or insult you or your family. I believe she was trying to share a
truth
> with you that she thought could help you. If you don't agree with her,
I
> would say dismiss the whole thing and we can all stop bickering and
> insulting.
>
> Brenda
>

She did say that. "Social vandal" was her exact turn of phrase. The
part of not knowing my own family was said in many ways and many places.
I did some cut and paste below to support those statements.

Here are my thoughts regarding this issue at this point.

I'm tired of discussing my family as I am sure many others are tired of
hearing about us. At this point I am more concerned with getting the
point across that what you all say this list is about and what happened
to me when I joined are two completely different things. I really and
truly wonder how many others are listening but afraid to post because
they don't want to incur the wrath of Sandra - I know of one personally
and suspect that a couple of others are here but don't post for that
reason. I also wonder how many have left without the help and advice
they need because their first post was jumped on by the more radical
fringe here as mine was and the person just up and left without waiting
to see if the whole list was like that.

And no, I am not saying that Sandra is not here trying to help people.
I'm sure she was not thinking how can I insult this person to the
fullest. But, I think she could take a little of her own advice and look
with-in a little too. None of us is ever 'finished'. I look inside
daily. I also go back through the words I've written in a thread if a
dispute arises or if someone questions my motivations. I've done both
with regard to this conversation and I am still fairly certain that I
know my family better than Sandra does.

Bridget

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Here is what Sandra said in message #25431 if you follow the thread you
can clearly see (not just speculate) she is talking about me:


> I think part of what's dishonest is that someone has come onto this
list
> without good intent. I've been told that some of these who are so
vehemently
> defending questionable stuff are on another list together, so I wonder
(and
> have been asking, in various ways) how much of the recent noise has
been for
> the sake of disruption. A kind of social vandalism.

She also said:

>The arguments in your paragraph above are like those used by abusive
spouses.
>"You had a choice. You could have made a better dinner, and I wouldn't
have
>thrown the casserole in the yard." (To use an example of the father of
>someone I know.)

Implying that those who don't follow her "total unschooling way of life"
are abusive. I know she didn't actually come right out and say that we
are abusive, but I think the tone is there.

And then she said during a discussion with Lynda about me: #25356

> Just because there's a difference doesn't mean everytime a mom wants to
say
> "my kid is an addict and so..." that she's right.


Of course there was that beauty by you accusing me of not knowing
myself:#25181

> And while I've gotten too irked to read many of her messages, I
> understand where Bridgett is coming from. It's (hopefully) the last
great
> stance. For me it's sort of like peeling layers, and frightfully
hanging onto
> that last one...afraid of what's *really* underneath.

~~~~~~~~~~~~ F u cn rd ths u cnt spl wrth a dm! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

If electricity comes from electrons . . .
. . . does that mean that morality comes from morons?

Bridget E Coffman

On Thu, 13 Sep 2001 17:42:37 EDT discovery6@... writes:
> I think that you have helped countless people Sandra and I am sure
that most
> do not want you to leave this list. I think the reason that many do
not say
> much in your support is that they hate to be verbally attacked next.
>

And I know at leaast one person who said she won't post much of anything
here even when she has a question or comment because she fears she will
be 'eaten alive' by Sandra and those who went right after me.
I'm sure Sandra has helped lots of people. I'm also sure she has pushed
some away without even knowing it.

Bridget

~~~~~~~~~~~~ F u cn rd ths u cnt spl wrth a dm! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

If electricity comes from electrons . . .
. . . does that mean that morality comes from morons?

another Philosypher

Sandra wrote << The shouting down of an individual
with a few supporters will not keep me
from helping unschoolers. >>
As well it shouldn't. I've never known you to back
down in the past, and I don't expect it now. I
remember several other such discussions on other lists
and your still here. :o)

Candace wrote <I think the reason that many do not say

much in your support is that they hate to be verbally
attacked next. >
This might be true. I've started 3 posts, spent 1/2
hour wording and re-wording them only to cancel
everything. I'm also extremely busy these last days.
Last night I deleted 500+ emails from this list from
last week because I'll never get through them. That
ment I missed a lot of the conversation and felt not
truly qualified to chime in with my opinion.


--- Carolyn wrote:
I owe Sandra an enormous debt of gratitude. I've
> never talked to the
> woman and she doesn't have a clue who I am. So I
> say now: Thank You.
> I certainly wouldn't have gotten here without you.
>
But I do know Sandra. She's been to my house and I've
been to hers. So I'm hoping she wasn't hurt because I
didn't defend her. Like I said I've missed most of the
messages. And I've never known Sandra to need someone
else to defend her. <g>
I started popping into the homeschooling chat rooms on
AOL a few years before we started homeschooling. Boy
was Sandra pinpoint accurate. She challenged my
beliefs on every turn. Sometimes reading what she
wrote in answer to another newbie homeschooler was
just what I needed to hear also. I never took her
words as harsh or blunt. To me she has always spoken
in a very wise voice. A voice I immediately respected.
But I was willing to learn from others. I've only been
on this list for a few months and reading the
unschooling.com message boards again for the last 4-5
months. I had quit reading for more than a year. I
noticed as soon as I again started reading
unschooling.com how relaxed I became. I get really
weirded out and controling when I don't read for a few
months.
Without you Sandra I would never have felt comfortable
enough to make the leap to homeschooling and then
unschooling. Thank You.
Joy in NM

=====
Learn from others, but go to your own school

Joy in NM
Homeschooling mom of two
Michael Alexander 16 yo
Kenna Rose 13 yo
Married 17 years to Scott

__________________________________________________
Terrorist Attacks on U.S. - How can you help?
Donate cash, emergency relief information
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Sharon Rudd

Some folks can benifit from from a swift kick in the
rear.

Sharon


I'm also
> sure she has pushed
> some away without even knowing it.
> Bridget


__________________________________________________
Terrorist Attacks on U.S. - How can you help?
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[email protected]

At this point I am more concerned with getting the
> point across that what you all say this list is about and what
happened
> to me when I joined are two completely different things. I really
and
> truly wonder how many others are listening but afraid to post
because
> they don't want to incur the wrath of Sandra - I know of one
personally
> and suspect that a couple of others are here but don't post for that
> reason. I also wonder how many have left without the help and
advice
> they need because their first post was jumped on by the more radical
> fringe here as mine was and the person just up and left without
waiting
> to see if the whole list was like that.>>

I've seen this on other unschooling boards.
The "brave" people sticking up for all the fearful ones.
Well, in my opinion, if you are going to unschool, you better get
brave. You better question your ideas, and throw them out "to the
wolves" and see how they come back.
If someone needs to take a while to get a grasp of what it's all
about, then they should hold back on posting and mostly read. When
they do decide to throw out something, they better be prepared to
have it analyzed from every angle. It would be helpful to realize
upfront, that people are going to question them and try to get more
information, while giving opinions about situations that MIGHT be
true. It's all part of this way of communicating. Clarify if
someone has misinterpreted. Questioning yourself, and coming back
with ideas that have come from that. Questioning others and being
open minded about thier ideas, and striving towards the place that is
right for you.
When it all turns personal and defensive, all the good that can come
from these types of discussions, is limited.
Joanna (who hasn't read all of these posts, but get's the gist)