Here we go
Rachel Wolfe Ravenhart
I've been listening to the great television debate with interest. I'm
one of those moms who has massively limited my son's TV time. Well, no
more. He's allowed to watch as will now. Two of my spice think I'm nuts,
and the other one smiled at me and said "Cool, now he'll get bored with
the goddamn noisy box". So, - what is it that you all do when your
littles are watching the tube? How do you engage them in other
activities without seeming false? Do you guys watch with them a lot? Do
you just do YOUR thing? Mother at sea here, someone toss a rope before
she drowns in insecurity!
Rachel Ravenhart
one of those moms who has massively limited my son's TV time. Well, no
more. He's allowed to watch as will now. Two of my spice think I'm nuts,
and the other one smiled at me and said "Cool, now he'll get bored with
the goddamn noisy box". So, - what is it that you all do when your
littles are watching the tube? How do you engage them in other
activities without seeming false? Do you guys watch with them a lot? Do
you just do YOUR thing? Mother at sea here, someone toss a rope before
she drowns in insecurity!
Rachel Ravenhart
Jon and Rue Kream
Do your own thing. If it looks interesting, he'll join you, and if you're
busy yourself, you won't spend this time worrying about him. If he gets
bored with the tv, and isn't interested in what you're doing, he'll find
something else or ask you for an idea. If you can give this your all, I
think you'll both be happy in the end. Good luck ~Rue
-----Original Message-----
From: Rachel Wolfe Ravenhart [mailto:ravenhart@...]
Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2001 9:29 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] Here we go
I've been listening to the great television debate with interest. I'm
one of those moms who has massively limited my son's TV time. Well, no
more. He's allowed to watch as will now. Two of my spice think I'm nuts,
and the other one smiled at me and said "Cool, now he'll get bored with
the goddamn noisy box". So, - what is it that you all do when your
littles are watching the tube? How do you engage them in other
activities without seeming false? Do you guys watch with them a lot? Do
you just do YOUR thing? Mother at sea here, someone toss a rope before
she drowns in insecurity!
Rachel Ravenhart
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busy yourself, you won't spend this time worrying about him. If he gets
bored with the tv, and isn't interested in what you're doing, he'll find
something else or ask you for an idea. If you can give this your all, I
think you'll both be happy in the end. Good luck ~Rue
-----Original Message-----
From: Rachel Wolfe Ravenhart [mailto:ravenhart@...]
Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2001 9:29 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] Here we go
I've been listening to the great television debate with interest. I'm
one of those moms who has massively limited my son's TV time. Well, no
more. He's allowed to watch as will now. Two of my spice think I'm nuts,
and the other one smiled at me and said "Cool, now he'll get bored with
the goddamn noisy box". So, - what is it that you all do when your
littles are watching the tube? How do you engage them in other
activities without seeming false? Do you guys watch with them a lot? Do
you just do YOUR thing? Mother at sea here, someone toss a rope before
she drowns in insecurity!
Rachel Ravenhart
Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com
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Bridget E Coffman
We watch a LOT of movies together. I knit and hand sew while we
watch,actually, I prefer to knit and sew to the TV. Movies have added a
lot of humor to our family too. A lot of our inside jokes come from
things we have watched together and developed our own routine about. For
examle, we say "Debris!!!" alot in a certain tone of voice and it means
anything that is unusually extreme - as in falling tractors are Debris!
Of course we have somewhat similar taste in movies. Occassionally,
someone (usually Wyndham) will want to watch something I absolutely can't
stand, in that case, if we don't compromise I just hole up in the craft
room and am usually joined by at least one other person before the end of
the movie.
As I said before, Wyndham is a special case when it comes to gettinghim
away from teh TV but with the girls, they usually just wander into
something else shortly. They actually watch very little TV come to think
of it. But then they are a lot like me, if they are watching they are
macrame-ing, knitting, reading, sewing, etc. too.
Are yours really little? If so, here's a trick that used to work with
the girls: I would start doing something they like to do without them.
Playing with blocks, coloring, cooking whatever, all were things I
genuinely liked doing but some I would not necessarily BE doing if I had
no kids - mostly because grown-ups usually don't own their own lego's!
Anyway, they would usually come join me. If they didn't I'd know they
were really watching and interested and that was okay too.
Bridget
On Wed, 12 Sep 2001 08:29:18 -0500 Rachel Wolfe Ravenhart
<ravenhart@...> writes:
If electricity comes from electrons . . .
. . . does that mean that morality comes from morons?
watch,actually, I prefer to knit and sew to the TV. Movies have added a
lot of humor to our family too. A lot of our inside jokes come from
things we have watched together and developed our own routine about. For
examle, we say "Debris!!!" alot in a certain tone of voice and it means
anything that is unusually extreme - as in falling tractors are Debris!
Of course we have somewhat similar taste in movies. Occassionally,
someone (usually Wyndham) will want to watch something I absolutely can't
stand, in that case, if we don't compromise I just hole up in the craft
room and am usually joined by at least one other person before the end of
the movie.
As I said before, Wyndham is a special case when it comes to gettinghim
away from teh TV but with the girls, they usually just wander into
something else shortly. They actually watch very little TV come to think
of it. But then they are a lot like me, if they are watching they are
macrame-ing, knitting, reading, sewing, etc. too.
Are yours really little? If so, here's a trick that used to work with
the girls: I would start doing something they like to do without them.
Playing with blocks, coloring, cooking whatever, all were things I
genuinely liked doing but some I would not necessarily BE doing if I had
no kids - mostly because grown-ups usually don't own their own lego's!
Anyway, they would usually come join me. If they didn't I'd know they
were really watching and interested and that was okay too.
Bridget
On Wed, 12 Sep 2001 08:29:18 -0500 Rachel Wolfe Ravenhart
<ravenhart@...> writes:
> So, - what is it that you all do when your~~~~~~~~~~~~ F u cn rd ths u cnt spl wrth a dm! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> littles are watching the tube? How do you engage them in other
> activities without seeming false? Do you guys watch with them a
> lot? Do you just do YOUR thing?
If electricity comes from electrons . . .
. . . does that mean that morality comes from morons?
Jon and Rue Kream
If, Rachel, you really want to do this, get rid of the idea of using any
kinds of "tricks" to get your child away from the tv. Either you're giving
him control over his activities or you're not. Doing things that are
interesting to YOU is the best way to model that your child is free to do
things that are interesting to him. ~Rue
-----Original Message-----
From: Bridget E Coffman [mailto:rumpleteasermom@...]
Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2001 9:56 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Here we go
We watch a LOT of movies together. I knit and hand sew while we
watch,actually, I prefer to knit and sew to the TV. Movies have added a
lot of humor to our family too. A lot of our inside jokes come from
things we have watched together and developed our own routine about. For
examle, we say "Debris!!!" alot in a certain tone of voice and it means
anything that is unusually extreme - as in falling tractors are Debris!
Of course we have somewhat similar taste in movies. Occassionally,
someone (usually Wyndham) will want to watch something I absolutely can't
stand, in that case, if we don't compromise I just hole up in the craft
room and am usually joined by at least one other person before the end of
the movie.
As I said before, Wyndham is a special case when it comes to gettinghim
away from teh TV but with the girls, they usually just wander into
something else shortly. They actually watch very little TV come to think
of it. But then they are a lot like me, if they are watching they are
macrame-ing, knitting, reading, sewing, etc. too.
Are yours really little? If so, here's a trick that used to work with
the girls: I would start doing something they like to do without them.
Playing with blocks, coloring, cooking whatever, all were things I
genuinely liked doing but some I would not necessarily BE doing if I had
no kids - mostly because grown-ups usually don't own their own lego's!
Anyway, they would usually come join me. If they didn't I'd know they
were really watching and interested and that was okay too.
Bridget
On Wed, 12 Sep 2001 08:29:18 -0500 Rachel Wolfe Ravenhart
<ravenhart@...> writes:
If electricity comes from electrons . . .
. . . does that mean that morality comes from morons?
Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
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kinds of "tricks" to get your child away from the tv. Either you're giving
him control over his activities or you're not. Doing things that are
interesting to YOU is the best way to model that your child is free to do
things that are interesting to him. ~Rue
-----Original Message-----
From: Bridget E Coffman [mailto:rumpleteasermom@...]
Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2001 9:56 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Here we go
We watch a LOT of movies together. I knit and hand sew while we
watch,actually, I prefer to knit and sew to the TV. Movies have added a
lot of humor to our family too. A lot of our inside jokes come from
things we have watched together and developed our own routine about. For
examle, we say "Debris!!!" alot in a certain tone of voice and it means
anything that is unusually extreme - as in falling tractors are Debris!
Of course we have somewhat similar taste in movies. Occassionally,
someone (usually Wyndham) will want to watch something I absolutely can't
stand, in that case, if we don't compromise I just hole up in the craft
room and am usually joined by at least one other person before the end of
the movie.
As I said before, Wyndham is a special case when it comes to gettinghim
away from teh TV but with the girls, they usually just wander into
something else shortly. They actually watch very little TV come to think
of it. But then they are a lot like me, if they are watching they are
macrame-ing, knitting, reading, sewing, etc. too.
Are yours really little? If so, here's a trick that used to work with
the girls: I would start doing something they like to do without them.
Playing with blocks, coloring, cooking whatever, all were things I
genuinely liked doing but some I would not necessarily BE doing if I had
no kids - mostly because grown-ups usually don't own their own lego's!
Anyway, they would usually come join me. If they didn't I'd know they
were really watching and interested and that was okay too.
Bridget
On Wed, 12 Sep 2001 08:29:18 -0500 Rachel Wolfe Ravenhart
<ravenhart@...> writes:
> So, - what is it that you all do when your~~~~~~~~~~~~ F u cn rd ths u cnt spl wrth a dm! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> littles are watching the tube? How do you engage them in other
> activities without seeming false? Do you guys watch with them a
> lot? Do you just do YOUR thing?
If electricity comes from electrons . . .
. . . does that mean that morality comes from morons?
Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com
To unsubscribe, set preferences, or read archives:
http://www.egroups.com/group/Unschooling-dotcom
Another great list sponsored by Home Education Magazine!
http://www.home-ed-magazine.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Samantha Stopple
--- Rachel Wolfe Ravenhart <ravenhart@...> wrote:
***I'm one of those moms who has massively limited my
son's TV time. Well, no more. He's allowed to watch as
will now. Two of my spice think I'm nuts, and the
other one smiled at me and said "Cool, now How do you
engage them in other activities without seeming false?
Do you guys watch with them a lot? Do you just do
YOUR thing? Mother at sea here, someone toss a rope
before she drowns in insecurity***
Make sure there a things near the TV that he can do
while watching TV like draw. Put toys and other stuff
near the TV. A kid could watch TV and put a brio
train together at the same time. My dd had don't
interesting craft things, wrote letters, colored,
drawn done mazes etc while watching TV.
I would watch with him sometimes just to know what
they are watching and so you can talk about it with
him.
Don't wait for the TV binge to be over with before you
get on with life. I think parents who have said they
tried to let there kids to self regulate and it didn't
work were waiting for the TV binge to stop then when
the TV binge stopped they would have helped their kids
do cool stuff. But if there isn't cool stuff happening
how is a kid to choose to do the cool stuff over TV/
in addition to TV.
If there are things you want to do or things you think
your son would like to do but he is having a hard time
leaving the programming schedule of the TV show him
how the VCR works and check out lots of videos from
the library as well.
Find things you can do while he watches TV that you
have wanted to learn or haven't done in a while.
Have few more things to add but my son wants nummies
;)
Samantha
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***I'm one of those moms who has massively limited my
son's TV time. Well, no more. He's allowed to watch as
will now. Two of my spice think I'm nuts, and the
other one smiled at me and said "Cool, now How do you
engage them in other activities without seeming false?
Do you guys watch with them a lot? Do you just do
YOUR thing? Mother at sea here, someone toss a rope
before she drowns in insecurity***
Make sure there a things near the TV that he can do
while watching TV like draw. Put toys and other stuff
near the TV. A kid could watch TV and put a brio
train together at the same time. My dd had don't
interesting craft things, wrote letters, colored,
drawn done mazes etc while watching TV.
I would watch with him sometimes just to know what
they are watching and so you can talk about it with
him.
Don't wait for the TV binge to be over with before you
get on with life. I think parents who have said they
tried to let there kids to self regulate and it didn't
work were waiting for the TV binge to stop then when
the TV binge stopped they would have helped their kids
do cool stuff. But if there isn't cool stuff happening
how is a kid to choose to do the cool stuff over TV/
in addition to TV.
If there are things you want to do or things you think
your son would like to do but he is having a hard time
leaving the programming schedule of the TV show him
how the VCR works and check out lots of videos from
the library as well.
Find things you can do while he watches TV that you
have wanted to learn or haven't done in a while.
Have few more things to add but my son wants nummies
;)
Samantha
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo! Messenger
http://im.yahoo.com
Bridget E Coffman
You know, as soon as I sent that, I knew I was going to have to defend my
use of the word trick.
Here are the selected definitions of the word as I meant it:
5. a clever or ingenious device or expedient; adroit technique: the
tricks of the trade.
6. the art or knack of doing something skillfully: You seem to have
mastered the trick of making others laugh.
7. a clever or dexterous feat intended to entertain, amuse, etc.: He
taught his dog some amazing tricks.
9. a behavioral peculiarity; trait; habit; mannerism.
15. do or turn the trick, to achieve the desired effect or result:
Another turn of the pliers should do the trick
Copyright � 1966-1994 by Random House Inc., All Rights Reserved.
Bridget
On Wed, 12 Sep 2001 10:02:43 -0400 "Jon and Rue Kream"
<skreams@...> writes:
If electricity comes from electrons . . .
. . . does that mean that morality comes from morons?
use of the word trick.
Here are the selected definitions of the word as I meant it:
5. a clever or ingenious device or expedient; adroit technique: the
tricks of the trade.
6. the art or knack of doing something skillfully: You seem to have
mastered the trick of making others laugh.
7. a clever or dexterous feat intended to entertain, amuse, etc.: He
taught his dog some amazing tricks.
9. a behavioral peculiarity; trait; habit; mannerism.
15. do or turn the trick, to achieve the desired effect or result:
Another turn of the pliers should do the trick
Copyright � 1966-1994 by Random House Inc., All Rights Reserved.
Bridget
On Wed, 12 Sep 2001 10:02:43 -0400 "Jon and Rue Kream"
<skreams@...> writes:
> If, Rachel, you really want to do this, get rid of the idea of using~~~~~~~~~~~~ F u cn rd ths u cnt spl wrth a dm! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> any
> kinds of "tricks" to get your child away from the tv. Either you're
> giving
> him control over his activities or you're not. Doing things that
> are
> interesting to YOU is the best way to model that your child is free
> to do
> things that are interesting to him. ~Rue
>
If electricity comes from electrons . . .
. . . does that mean that morality comes from morons?
Jon and Rue Kream
I'm sorry, Bridget. In no way did I mean I wanted you to defend your choice
of words. I was just giving *my* opinion on how to make this work to
Rachel. Just like you were. *IMO*, and I'm using the word trick here to
mean an adroit technique, using a trick to lure a child away from tv is a
way of giving them the *illusion* of control over their own activities. I
didn't think that was what Rachel had decided to do. If Rachel does not
want to hear my opinion on this, I will be happy to stop posting to her.
~Rue
-----Original Message-----
From: Bridget E Coffman [mailto:rumpleteasermom@...]
Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2001 10:30 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Here we go
You know, as soon as I sent that, I knew I was going to have to defend my
use of the word trick.
Here are the selected definitions of the word as I meant it:
5. a clever or ingenious device or expedient; adroit technique: the
tricks of the trade.
6. the art or knack of doing something skillfully: You seem to have
mastered the trick of making others laugh.
7. a clever or dexterous feat intended to entertain, amuse, etc.: He
taught his dog some amazing tricks.
9. a behavioral peculiarity; trait; habit; mannerism.
15. do or turn the trick, to achieve the desired effect or result:
Another turn of the pliers should do the trick
Copyright © 1966-1994 by Random House Inc., All Rights Reserved.
Bridget
On Wed, 12 Sep 2001 10:02:43 -0400 "Jon and Rue Kream"
<skreams@...> writes:
If electricity comes from electrons . . .
. . . does that mean that morality comes from morons?
Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com
To unsubscribe, set preferences, or read archives:
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http://www.home-ed-magazine.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
of words. I was just giving *my* opinion on how to make this work to
Rachel. Just like you were. *IMO*, and I'm using the word trick here to
mean an adroit technique, using a trick to lure a child away from tv is a
way of giving them the *illusion* of control over their own activities. I
didn't think that was what Rachel had decided to do. If Rachel does not
want to hear my opinion on this, I will be happy to stop posting to her.
~Rue
-----Original Message-----
From: Bridget E Coffman [mailto:rumpleteasermom@...]
Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2001 10:30 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Here we go
You know, as soon as I sent that, I knew I was going to have to defend my
use of the word trick.
Here are the selected definitions of the word as I meant it:
5. a clever or ingenious device or expedient; adroit technique: the
tricks of the trade.
6. the art or knack of doing something skillfully: You seem to have
mastered the trick of making others laugh.
7. a clever or dexterous feat intended to entertain, amuse, etc.: He
taught his dog some amazing tricks.
9. a behavioral peculiarity; trait; habit; mannerism.
15. do or turn the trick, to achieve the desired effect or result:
Another turn of the pliers should do the trick
Copyright © 1966-1994 by Random House Inc., All Rights Reserved.
Bridget
On Wed, 12 Sep 2001 10:02:43 -0400 "Jon and Rue Kream"
<skreams@...> writes:
> If, Rachel, you really want to do this, get rid of the idea of using~~~~~~~~~~~~ F u cn rd ths u cnt spl wrth a dm! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> any
> kinds of "tricks" to get your child away from the tv. Either you're
> giving
> him control over his activities or you're not. Doing things that
> are
> interesting to YOU is the best way to model that your child is free
> to do
> things that are interesting to him. ~Rue
>
If electricity comes from electrons . . .
. . . does that mean that morality comes from morons?
Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com
To unsubscribe, set preferences, or read archives:
http://www.egroups.com/group/Unschooling-dotcom
Another great list sponsored by Home Education Magazine!
http://www.home-ed-magazine.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[email protected]
In a message dated 9/12/01 7:35:12 AM Mountain Daylight Time,
ravenhart@... writes:
If you really don't WANT to do anything with your children, don't offer. If
there are things you need to do you they might want to help (in the yard,
elsewhere in the house) you could make the offer. If there's something
happening (a play, homeschool playgroup, etc.) you could offer that, and
offer to record what they might miss on TV. But I wouldn't just say
"Wouldn't you rather play Lego?" Put the Lego in the room where the TV is,
maybe, if you think Lego's a good thing.
<<Do you guys watch with them a lot? >>
When they were little, I watched TONS with them. Not as much now that the
youngest is 9, but we still do watch lots of videos together. Mostly here
it's videos and not TV. Sometimes the kids will watch TV together and
there's a similar benefit to having a mom there (since the boys are 15 and
12)--there's intelligent commentary, someone to answer questions, and they
often tell me what they thought was best or worst about a show.
<<Do
ravenhart@... writes:
> How do you engage them in otherDon't do anything false.
> activities without seeming false?
If you really don't WANT to do anything with your children, don't offer. If
there are things you need to do you they might want to help (in the yard,
elsewhere in the house) you could make the offer. If there's something
happening (a play, homeschool playgroup, etc.) you could offer that, and
offer to record what they might miss on TV. But I wouldn't just say
"Wouldn't you rather play Lego?" Put the Lego in the room where the TV is,
maybe, if you think Lego's a good thing.
<<Do you guys watch with them a lot? >>
When they were little, I watched TONS with them. Not as much now that the
youngest is 9, but we still do watch lots of videos together. Mostly here
it's videos and not TV. Sometimes the kids will watch TV together and
there's a similar benefit to having a mom there (since the boys are 15 and
12)--there's intelligent commentary, someone to answer questions, and they
often tell me what they thought was best or worst about a show.
<<Do
> you just do YOUR thing?>>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> Well... yeah!
>
>
another Philosypher
> --- Rachel Wolfe Ravenhart <ravenhart@...>Why would it be false? Why would something outside of
> wrote: and the
> other one smiled at me and said "Cool, now How do
> you
> engage them in other activities without seeming
> false?>>
TV be less real than what we see on TV? If you are
honestly offering an experience then your son will
take it at full value. Be prepared for him to so no.
Allow him to make the judgement if it is important
enough to give up a favorite program.
Unless the questioner thinks that TV is so fascinating
that you'd never be able to drag your little one away
by calls of "cool, come look at this bug" or offers to
go out in the mesa and look for lizards, or offers to
go get ice cream at Dairy Cream.
And TV has its own merits. It's not the big baddy some
have been brainwashed to think it is. I can't give an
exact example because my mind doesn't hold that much
info anymore, and both kids who would know what I'm
talking about are still sleeping, but just the other
day I watched a few moments of Pokemon with my
16-nearly 17yo. The dialog went something like this;
me-Wow I didn't know that, son-yeah, and when...
Which resulted in a 5 minute conversation on some
military technical term and the real meaning and how
it could be used in our everyday lives. I often use
the example of a friend's son who picked out which
paintings were by Picasso out of a coffee table book
when he'd never seen Picasso paintings before, all
because he'd watched Toy Story. You know when Mr
Potato Head puts all his body parts on one side and
says "Look, I'm Picasso" Who would have thought Toy
Story was so educational?
>Very true. We all need lots of cool stuff. Providing
> Don't wait for the TV binge to be over with before
> you
> get on with life. I think parents who have said they
> tried to let there kids to self regulate and it
> didn't
> work were waiting for the TV binge to stop then when
> the TV binge stopped they would have helped their
> kids
> do cool stuff. But if there isn't cool stuff
> happening
> how is a kid to choose to do the cool stuff over TV/
> in addition to TV.
new experiences, new ideas and different environments
is our biggest job as unschoolers.
=====
Learn from others, but go to your own school
Joy in NM
Homeschooling mom of two
Michael Alexander 16 yo
Kenna Rose 13 yo
Married 17 years to Scott
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Sharon Rudd
Occassionally,
It is different at our house.
Our TV is in our main room....as are the crafts.
Several floor to ceiling book shelves holding a good
portion of the reference books. And a wall of
materials to make things with, from paper to a large
basket of toilet paper tubes. Different types of glue,
paints, etc. The television-holding-furniture has a
big shelf filled with board games and puzzles, card
decks, these all have all of their pieces (or
substitutes)and get used. Musical instruments live
here too. (The ones that didn't migrate to older son's
homes) We have several types of looms and other types
of fiber art materials in this same room. My large
5x7 loom is on the large, greenhouse porch, as is
DS4's "workroom" where he can do things that produce
lots of byproducts like sawdust, mud, or ?????liquids.
Well, mostly. These projects tend to migrate inside,
too. It is air-conditioned inside. Legos (lots and
lots) live on the bottom shelf of the supply shelves.
When I vacuum, anyway!!
There are other rooms, and these have stuff in 'em.
But there is always something "in progress" in the
main room. The TV is turned on sometimes. Actually,
more than I personally prefer, but not as much as it
could be. Constantly now....monitoring the news. DH
even made "Mama's Play Room", but it has evolved into
fabric storage, out of season stuff, some (as many as
I can fit) of my books, mementos from past lives, and
guest sleeping. As I told DH when he was making it, it
is too isolated.
I never "hole up". I want to. But I don't. I'm the
Mother around here so I am available. 'course I'd
better get off 'puter or that won't be true..........
Sharon
and yes it often is hard to turn around.
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> someone (usually Wyndham) will want to watch......................................................
> something I absolutely can't
> stand, in that case, if we don't compromise I just
> hole up in the craft
> room
> Bridget
It is different at our house.
Our TV is in our main room....as are the crafts.
Several floor to ceiling book shelves holding a good
portion of the reference books. And a wall of
materials to make things with, from paper to a large
basket of toilet paper tubes. Different types of glue,
paints, etc. The television-holding-furniture has a
big shelf filled with board games and puzzles, card
decks, these all have all of their pieces (or
substitutes)and get used. Musical instruments live
here too. (The ones that didn't migrate to older son's
homes) We have several types of looms and other types
of fiber art materials in this same room. My large
5x7 loom is on the large, greenhouse porch, as is
DS4's "workroom" where he can do things that produce
lots of byproducts like sawdust, mud, or ?????liquids.
Well, mostly. These projects tend to migrate inside,
too. It is air-conditioned inside. Legos (lots and
lots) live on the bottom shelf of the supply shelves.
When I vacuum, anyway!!
There are other rooms, and these have stuff in 'em.
But there is always something "in progress" in the
main room. The TV is turned on sometimes. Actually,
more than I personally prefer, but not as much as it
could be. Constantly now....monitoring the news. DH
even made "Mama's Play Room", but it has evolved into
fabric storage, out of season stuff, some (as many as
I can fit) of my books, mementos from past lives, and
guest sleeping. As I told DH when he was making it, it
is too isolated.
I never "hole up". I want to. But I don't. I'm the
Mother around here so I am available. 'course I'd
better get off 'puter or that won't be true..........
Sharon
and yes it often is hard to turn around.
__________________________________________________
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Bridget E Coffman
It was the quotes around trick that made me think you were refering back
to my post. Sorry to be touchy.
Bridget
On Wed, 12 Sep 2001 10:48:04 -0400 "Jon and Rue Kream"
<skreams@...> writes:
If electricity comes from electrons . . .
. . . does that mean that morality comes from morons?
to my post. Sorry to be touchy.
Bridget
On Wed, 12 Sep 2001 10:48:04 -0400 "Jon and Rue Kream"
<skreams@...> writes:
> I'm sorry, Bridget. In no way did I mean I wanted you to defend your~~~~~~~~~~~~ F u cn rd ths u cnt spl wrth a dm! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> choice
> of words. I was just giving *my* opinion on how to make this work to
> Rachel. Just like you were. *IMO*, and I'm using the word trick
> here to
> mean an adroit technique, using a trick to lure a child away from tv
> is a
> way of giving them the *illusion* of control over their own
> activities. I
> didn't think that was what Rachel had decided to do. If Rachel does
> not
> want to hear my opinion on this, I will be happy to stop posting to
> her.
> ~Rue
If electricity comes from electrons . . .
. . . does that mean that morality comes from morons?
Fetteroll
> --- Rachel Wolfe Ravenhart <ravenhart@...>on 9/12/01 1:02 PM, another Philosypher
> wrote: and the
> other one smiled at me and said "Cool, now How do
> you
> engage them in other activities without seeming
> false?>>
<applecookierosehomeschooling@...> wrote:
> Why would it be false? Why would something outside ofI believe she meant how could she do some activity on her own that she
> TV be less real than what we see on TV?
didn't really want to do but that her son might like so there was something
interesting available for him to choose instead of TV and not have that set
up feel false?
It's one of the pitfalls of having an only or widely spaced ages, especially
if your natural inclination when given some free time is to grab a book or
get on the computer instead of to grab the crafts or a magnifying glass to
look for bugs ;-)
I think it's helpful to think more in terms of here's what I'm planning for
the day would you like to go along and how does that fit in with your plans?
rather than as an entertainer to entice him to do things you think are more
worthwhile. Proactive rather than reactive.
And now that I come to think of it, a lot of the things I find interesting
and like to learn more about like literature, history, and science were
sparked by TV not by books (though I did look at the pictures and read the
captions in Popular Science and National Geographic.) Other than old Nancy
Drew books, I avoided books with historical settings because they reminded
me too much of history from textbooks. But I loved movies set in the past.
:-) Science was Nova (and science fiction books). Literature was Shakespeare
on TV and Masterpiece Theater. It's rather unfortunate that there are so
many choices on cable TV since the good stuff gets buried amidst the noise.
It was lots easier when I was a kid and there were only 4 choices each hour
;-)
Well, that was a bit of a tangent!
Joyce
another Philosypher
> I believe she meant how could she do some activityAhhhh! I never had that problem which is why I
> on her own that she
> didn't really want to do but that her son might like
> so there was something
> interesting available for him to choose instead of
> TV and not have that set
> up feel false?
>
probably didn't understand the question. There aren't
too many things that my kids are interested in that
I'm not and have to fake it. Well except for Power
Rangers. But I wanted to know what they were doing.
Creating bad guys out of Legos is actually fun.
=====
Learn from others, but go to your own school
Joy in NM
Homeschooling mom of two
Michael Alexander 16 yo
Kenna Rose 13 yo
Married 17 years to Scott
__________________________________________________
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Bridget E Coffman
On Wed, 12 Sep 2001 10:46:44 -0700 (PDT) Sharon Rudd
<bearspawprint@...> writes:
least one of my offspring so it isn't like I am on another planet.
Being the mother and being available should not mean you NEVER are alone
or have down time or time to yourself or boundaries. It seems to me that
that may teach some lessons about gender roles that we may not want to
promote too heavily. But that is a whole 'nother discussion.
Bridget
~~~~~~~~~~~~ F u cn rd ths u cnt spl wrth a dm! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
If electricity comes from electrons . . .
. . . does that mean that morality comes from morons?
<bearspawprint@...> writes:
>Well, as I said, when I do hole up down there, I am usually joined by at
>
> I never "hole up". I want to. But I don't. I'm the
> Mother around here so I am available. 'course I'd
> better get off 'puter or that won't be true..........
>
> Sharon
>
least one of my offspring so it isn't like I am on another planet.
Being the mother and being available should not mean you NEVER are alone
or have down time or time to yourself or boundaries. It seems to me that
that may teach some lessons about gender roles that we may not want to
promote too heavily. But that is a whole 'nother discussion.
Bridget
~~~~~~~~~~~~ F u cn rd ths u cnt spl wrth a dm! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
If electricity comes from electrons . . .
. . . does that mean that morality comes from morons?
Bridget E Coffman
On Thu, 13 Sep 2001 06:15:03 -0400 Fetteroll <fetteroll@...>
writes:
of Darkness) I don;t usually like historical fiction but I loved them!
Bridget
~~~~~~~~~~~~ F u cn rd ths u cnt spl wrth a dm! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
If electricity comes from electrons . . .
. . . does that mean that morality comes from morons?
writes:
> Drew books, I avoided books with historical settings because theyHave you even read Caleb Carr's two novels? (The Alienist and The Angel
> reminded me too much of history from textbooks.
>
> Joyce
>
>
of Darkness) I don;t usually like historical fiction but I loved them!
Bridget
~~~~~~~~~~~~ F u cn rd ths u cnt spl wrth a dm! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
If electricity comes from electrons . . .
. . . does that mean that morality comes from morons?
Rachel Wolfe Ravenhart
Fetteroll wrote:
Rachel Ravenhart
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>Yes! Thank you. My brain is beginning to work again.
> I think it's helpful to think more in terms of here's what I'm
> planning for
> the day would you like to go along and how does that fit in with your
> plans?
> rather than as an entertainer to entice him to do things you think are
> more
> worthwhile. Proactive rather than reactive.
Rachel Ravenhart
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sharon Rudd
Oh Boy a New Can-of-Worms to fish ideas with!!!!
I personally don't give a high-ho about gender roles.
If it needs doing you do it. Period.
First priority...children must be fed, healthy as
possible, strong and aware and capable and adaptable
as possible.It is my firm conviction that MOTHERS do
it all. Some stuff we allocate......but ultimately
MOTHERS are in charge of MOTHERING.
I decide what, when, how much, and if....for my
children until they decide to decide for themselves. I
decided to unschool. I decided to give birth and the
manner of doing this. I decided to breast feed and how
long and the manner of weaning. I decided what to
feed my babies and when and how much. I made sure it
was available. I learned about health and related
issues and applied (apply) what I learned as best I
can. I learned all manner of self defense so that I
help my children be prepared and strong. I learned and
learned and am stil learning.
And I'll change my mind when I feel like it, too!!
Giving birth is about as organic as you can get.
Growth, learning, and providing for one's children is
organic and changeable too. But as a MOTHER I decide
which direction to point. And I decide to always be
available...'becuase there is no other human on Earth
to be available for these children. It's me. If their
Daddy's choose to be available that is
wonderful....but I can't choose that. It happens or
not. I CHOOSE AS A MOTHER TO ALWAYS BE A MOTHER. I
never abdicate to another, not DH, not PS, not TV, not
an e-list, not my own selfishness, not a tyranical
grandfather, not anything.
Sharon
--- Bridget E Coffman <rumpleteasermom@...>
wrote:
Terrorist Attacks on U.S. - How can you help?
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I personally don't give a high-ho about gender roles.
If it needs doing you do it. Period.
First priority...children must be fed, healthy as
possible, strong and aware and capable and adaptable
as possible.It is my firm conviction that MOTHERS do
it all. Some stuff we allocate......but ultimately
MOTHERS are in charge of MOTHERING.
I decide what, when, how much, and if....for my
children until they decide to decide for themselves. I
decided to unschool. I decided to give birth and the
manner of doing this. I decided to breast feed and how
long and the manner of weaning. I decided what to
feed my babies and when and how much. I made sure it
was available. I learned about health and related
issues and applied (apply) what I learned as best I
can. I learned all manner of self defense so that I
help my children be prepared and strong. I learned and
learned and am stil learning.
And I'll change my mind when I feel like it, too!!
Giving birth is about as organic as you can get.
Growth, learning, and providing for one's children is
organic and changeable too. But as a MOTHER I decide
which direction to point. And I decide to always be
available...'becuase there is no other human on Earth
to be available for these children. It's me. If their
Daddy's choose to be available that is
wonderful....but I can't choose that. It happens or
not. I CHOOSE AS A MOTHER TO ALWAYS BE A MOTHER. I
never abdicate to another, not DH, not PS, not TV, not
an e-list, not my own selfishness, not a tyranical
grandfather, not anything.
Sharon
--- Bridget E Coffman <rumpleteasermom@...>
wrote:
>__________________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >
>
> Well, as I said, when I do hole up down there, I am
> usually joined by at
> least one of my offspring so it isn't like I am on
> another planet.
> Being the mother and being available should not mean
> you NEVER are alone
> or have down time or time to yourself or boundaries.
> It seems to me that
> that may teach some lessons about gender roles that
> we may not want to
> promote too heavily. But that is a whole 'nother
> discussion.
>
> Bridget
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~ F u cn rd ths u cnt spl wrth a dm!
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> If electricity comes from electrons . . .
> . . . does that mean that morality comes from
> morons?
>
Terrorist Attacks on U.S. - How can you help?
Donate cash, emergency relief information
http://dailynews.yahoo.com/fc/US/Emergency_Information/
Bridget E Coffman
On Thu, 13 Sep 2001 10:18:49 -0700 (PDT) Sharon Rudd
<bearspawprint@...> writes:
Bridget
~~~~~~~~~~~~ F u cn rd ths u cnt spl wrth a dm! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
If electricity comes from electrons . . .
. . . does that mean that morality comes from morons?
<bearspawprint@...> writes:
> I CHOOSE AS A MOTHER TO ALWAYS BE A MOTHER. ISo, do you think it is healthy to never take any time for yourself?
> never abdicate to another, not DH, not PS, not TV, not
> an e-list, not my own selfishness, not a tyranical
> grandfather, not anything.
>
> Sharon
>
>
>
Bridget
~~~~~~~~~~~~ F u cn rd ths u cnt spl wrth a dm! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
If electricity comes from electrons . . .
. . . does that mean that morality comes from morons?
[email protected]
In a message dated 9/13/01 12:56:13 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
bearspawprint@... writes:
time when I too felt like I needed and deserved my own private time and that
was that, my son needed to understand. I wasn't going to be the submissive
wife/housekeeper role.
For me it really was a backlash of going so long without meeting *any* of my
own needs. So when I decided I needed 'me' time, it went a bit overboard.
If I'm not the main caregiver, always available to give care to my son...who
is? I've had to find my own balance. Now I am available to my son whenever he
needs me, but I also try to do more things for myself. The trick for me is to
do so in a fashion that suits us both. I've recently asked a friend who he
knows very well if my son can come play for a few hours one day a week. Her
son loves it, so does mine. There have been days when he didn't want to go or
stay and I didn't push him to, and there have been days when I really missed
him and asked if he could come home early.
I have refocused on my decision and commitment to be a full time at home
mother. This to me means being available whenever he needs me. And as far as
all of my family who keeps insisting that I need to go to school, or work,
etc....I tell them that I will live a long life. In twenty years I don't want
to be saying that I missed my son growing and changing.
Brenda
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
bearspawprint@... writes:
> I CHOOSE AS A MOTHER TO ALWAYS BE A MOTHER. II really agree with this, and the whole post really was great. There was I
> never abdicate to another, not DH, not PS, not TV, not
> an e-list, not my own selfishness, not a tyranical
> grandfather, not anything.
>
> Sharon
>
time when I too felt like I needed and deserved my own private time and that
was that, my son needed to understand. I wasn't going to be the submissive
wife/housekeeper role.
For me it really was a backlash of going so long without meeting *any* of my
own needs. So when I decided I needed 'me' time, it went a bit overboard.
If I'm not the main caregiver, always available to give care to my son...who
is? I've had to find my own balance. Now I am available to my son whenever he
needs me, but I also try to do more things for myself. The trick for me is to
do so in a fashion that suits us both. I've recently asked a friend who he
knows very well if my son can come play for a few hours one day a week. Her
son loves it, so does mine. There have been days when he didn't want to go or
stay and I didn't push him to, and there have been days when I really missed
him and asked if he could come home early.
I have refocused on my decision and commitment to be a full time at home
mother. This to me means being available whenever he needs me. And as far as
all of my family who keeps insisting that I need to go to school, or work,
etc....I tell them that I will live a long life. In twenty years I don't want
to be saying that I missed my son growing and changing.
Brenda
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Fetteroll
on 9/13/01 2:55 PM, Bridget E Coffman <rumpleteasermom@...> wrote:
stuff. I just order the tapes from the library for him. Thanks :-)
But I got over my aversion to history in book form ;-) Though I'm still
getting it in mysteries like Anne Perry (Victorian England) and Elizabeth
Peters (Victorian Egyptology, who, BTW, has a doctorate in Egyptology and
wrote 2 really wonderful overviews of Egyptian history and culture under her
real name Barbara Mertz) and Stephanie Barron (Jane Austen, which sounded
goofy but are actually pretty good and my posts after reading one had even
longer and more convoluted sentences than usual ;-) and Lindsey Davis (Roman
Empire). In fact I prefer my books to not be present day or even Earth:
historical, science fiction, fantasy.
Joyce
> Have you even read Caleb Carr's two novels? (The Alienist and The AngelOh, that looks like something up my husband's alley. He likes the darker
> of Darkness) I don;t usually like historical fiction but I loved them!
stuff. I just order the tapes from the library for him. Thanks :-)
But I got over my aversion to history in book form ;-) Though I'm still
getting it in mysteries like Anne Perry (Victorian England) and Elizabeth
Peters (Victorian Egyptology, who, BTW, has a doctorate in Egyptology and
wrote 2 really wonderful overviews of Egyptian history and culture under her
real name Barbara Mertz) and Stephanie Barron (Jane Austen, which sounded
goofy but are actually pretty good and my posts after reading one had even
longer and more convoluted sentences than usual ;-) and Lindsey Davis (Roman
Empire). In fact I prefer my books to not be present day or even Earth:
historical, science fiction, fantasy.
Joyce
Bridget E Coffman
On Thu, 13 Sep 2001 19:45:58 EDT brendaclaspell@... writes:
If (hypothetical) you are always a mother, 100% of the time, does it not
follow that your offspring must be a child 100% of the time?
Personally, my children start to function as adults some of the time
around the age of 9. Rachel is 16 and is a functional, productive and
adult member of the family. She has problems that need addressed but
then so do I. We address all of our problems as a family not as master
and slave (in either direction).
Bridget
~~~~~~~~~~~~ F u cn rd ths u cnt spl wrth a dm! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
If electricity comes from electrons . . .
. . . does that mean that morality comes from morons?
>home
>I have refocused on my decision and commitment to be a full time at
> mother. This to me means being available whenever he needs me. And asfar as
> all of my family who keeps insisting that I need to go to school, orwork,
> etc....I tell them that I will live a long life. In twenty years Idon't want
> to be saying that I missed my son growing and changing.I guess part of what I question in this thread is this:
>
> Brenda
>
If (hypothetical) you are always a mother, 100% of the time, does it not
follow that your offspring must be a child 100% of the time?
Personally, my children start to function as adults some of the time
around the age of 9. Rachel is 16 and is a functional, productive and
adult member of the family. She has problems that need addressed but
then so do I. We address all of our problems as a family not as master
and slave (in either direction).
Bridget
~~~~~~~~~~~~ F u cn rd ths u cnt spl wrth a dm! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
If electricity comes from electrons . . .
. . . does that mean that morality comes from morons?
Johanna SanInocencio
Brenda you speak wisdom. The "career" we have chosen is much more valuable
in long term benefits. Once your children are grown, you cannot get that
time back. I have heard of many women who regretted putting their careers
before their children, but never heard of a woman who was "just a mom"
saying they regretted raising their children. I truly understand the
pressure others can put on you also. My MIL has even told me I don't love my
husband because I "make him work so hard" and I don't go to work. I do work,
keeping a home for my family and being available for my children.
Johanna
Life is the ultimate learning experience!
in long term benefits. Once your children are grown, you cannot get that
time back. I have heard of many women who regretted putting their careers
before their children, but never heard of a woman who was "just a mom"
saying they regretted raising their children. I truly understand the
pressure others can put on you also. My MIL has even told me I don't love my
husband because I "make him work so hard" and I don't go to work. I do work,
keeping a home for my family and being available for my children.
Johanna
Life is the ultimate learning experience!
----- Original Message -----
From: <brendaclaspell@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2001 6:45 PM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Gender Roles was tv and crafts
> In a message dated 9/13/01 12:56:13 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
> bearspawprint@... writes:
>
>
> > I CHOOSE AS A MOTHER TO ALWAYS BE A MOTHER. I
> > never abdicate to another, not DH, not PS, not TV, not
> > an e-list, not my own selfishness, not a tyranical
> > grandfather, not anything.
> >
> > Sharon
> >
>
> I really agree with this, and the whole post really was great. There was I
> time when I too felt like I needed and deserved my own private time and
that
> was that, my son needed to understand. I wasn't going to be the submissive
> wife/housekeeper role.
> For me it really was a backlash of going so long without meeting *any* of
my
> own needs. So when I decided I needed 'me' time, it went a bit overboard.
>
> If I'm not the main caregiver, always available to give care to my
son...who
> is? I've had to find my own balance. Now I am available to my son whenever
he
> needs me, but I also try to do more things for myself. The trick for me is
to
> do so in a fashion that suits us both. I've recently asked a friend who he
> knows very well if my son can come play for a few hours one day a week.
Her
> son loves it, so does mine. There have been days when he didn't want to go
or
> stay and I didn't push him to, and there have been days when I really
missed
> him and asked if he could come home early.
>
> I have refocused on my decision and commitment to be a full time at home
> mother. This to me means being available whenever he needs me. And as far
as
> all of my family who keeps insisting that I need to go to school, or work,
> etc....I tell them that I will live a long life. In twenty years I don't
want
> to be saying that I missed my son growing and changing.
>
> Brenda
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
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>
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>
[email protected]
<< If (hypothetical) you are always a mother, 100% of the time, does it not
follow that your offspring must be a child 100% of the time? >>
Both can be human and compassionate in their own measure 100% of the time.
The child is growing, and the mother is too.
Sandra
follow that your offspring must be a child 100% of the time? >>
Both can be human and compassionate in their own measure 100% of the time.
The child is growing, and the mother is too.
Sandra
[email protected]
Julie, you're off the hook for a minute ( you radical! )
Bridget, you are the only one on an unschooling list who has equated the
mother /child relationship with the master / slave relationship. I
cannot begin to fathom this.
And why did you add, in parenthesis, " in either direction" ? Girl, I
never liked psychology that much but this is RINGing some bells here.
Deb L
(help!)
On Fri, 14 Sep 2001 10:43:39 -0400 Bridget E Coffman
<rumpleteasermom@...> writes:
. We address all of our problems as a family not as
Bridget, you are the only one on an unschooling list who has equated the
mother /child relationship with the master / slave relationship. I
cannot begin to fathom this.
And why did you add, in parenthesis, " in either direction" ? Girl, I
never liked psychology that much but this is RINGing some bells here.
Deb L
(help!)
On Fri, 14 Sep 2001 10:43:39 -0400 Bridget E Coffman
<rumpleteasermom@...> writes:
. We address all of our problems as a family not as
> master
> and slave (in either direction).
>
> Bridget