Jeff & Diane Gwirtz

> I was curious as to the many comments of school and curricula that I've
> seen mentioned here. I'm acquainted with unschooling but have not met many
> that hs like I do - some unschooling and some curricula. Do you all
> unschool in this fashion?
>
Hi Laraine,

I'm a die-hard unschooler, but that doesn't mean that my 13 year old
son never uses curriculum. Today, in fact he was using a geometry
textbook. We make textbooks available just like we make fiction
available. Textbooks are a resource at our house and my son uses
them how and when he wants to. We recently had a discussion here
about the University of Missouri correspondence program - maybe
that's what you are referring to. I think that courses like these
can be another unschooling resource, as long as it follows the
child's interests, goals, and desires. Last year my son returned to
ps briefly. We considered that unschooling because it was what he
wanted to do. We approached it in a very unschoolish fashion and
when he had gotten what he needed, we moved on.

Often, homeschoolers come to unschooling gradually. First they give
up the spelling tests, then the grammar lesson. It seems like the
last to go is often the math book. That's the way it was with us.
Also, some families are "eclectic homeschoolers." They may use
curriculum for certain subjects and unschool others. For us though,
that didn't work. Once my kids tasted unschooling, they wanted it
all. I'd probably still be sitting here happily doling out math
assignments, but they weren't going for it. Now, it's such a
pleasure to watch my son (daughter is in college), tackle math
because he likes it - geometry no less........

Diane from KS
jagwirtz@...

Jeff & Diane Gwirtz

> So tell me more about how this happened. Somehow I can see it coming for
> us but it scares me to death.

Sometimes it still scares me to death, but I love it anyway :-) We
started unschooling our son in 5th grade. We started with a variety
of resources, not a specific curriculum, but a lot of schoolish
ideas. Within the first week, my son would question why we were
doing this or that. What was he learning. I begin to question it
too. Plus, I figured out really quickly that he was forgetting the
things he wasn't interested in. Within a couple of months we were
doing math, a little writing, plenty of free-choice reading, and
unschooling the rest of the time. Then I saw that the little bit of
math I was still "assigning" was becoming very tedious. We were
using Saxon and even leaving out a lot, there was too much
repetition. He began to dread math and he had always loved it, and
really understood it. All the while, I had been reading everything
I could get my hands on about unschooling and sharing it with dh.
He's a college professor that sees on a daily basis what's happening
to education. Anyway, we finally decided to go for it. We felt
like if we only stuck our toe in intead of jumping in completely, we
wouldn't be able to convince our son that he really was in charge of
his education and that it was his choice from now on.
It took a while - quite a bit of deschooling to do, but he's such a
believer now that I can't imagine going back.

How do I make sure that they get all they
> need in math with unschooling and be sure they would not be thrown for a
> loop if, God forbid, a truck hit me head on and they were thrown back into
> ps?

Unschooling involves a lot of trust. You have to trust that your
child will learn what he needs to know when he needs to know it. And
- if God forbid something happens, your child has the benefit of the
time he/she has spent learning on their own - learning how to learn,
trusting themselves - becoming self-directed, independent learners.
If they do go back to school, it's with a different attitude.
They will still take more responsibility for their education instead
of expecting the school to have all the right answers.

At the end of 6th grade, my son decided that he wanted to try 7th
grade. He was worried that he might be behind in math so he asked me
to help him work throught the rest of a math book at that level.
Well, you can imagine what happened. He went back, and they put him
in the advanced math class. He only stayed for one quarter, but it
was so different from when he had been in school before. He jumped
through the hoops that he had to, but for the most part, he took
what he could use and left the rest.

Another concern I have is once they learn what they need to know is it
> hard for them to put it down on paper or do they know what to do with
> problems on paper if/when they encounter them.
>
I don't think so. For instance, one way to become a good writer is
to read a lot. Areas overlap and strengths make up for weaknesses.
Plus, I think that when you need these skills, you can practice
them and become proficient rather quickly. I would imagine that
if my son decides to take the ACT or SAT that we will practice because he
won't have had a lot of experience with standardized tests. It will
be useful to practice, but it wouldn't have been worth it to have
had him take them every year just so that he had the experience.
He does a lot of math in his head that I have to write down. It's
just different - not good or bad.

> My one dd, age 10, had a horrible time in ps with math and now has a bushel
> of attitudes to show for it. This makes it hard - I know she is already
> behind where she would be in ps and I don't want her to lose any more
> ground. Suggestions welcome!

I know how you feel. I felt like this when we first took our
daughter out of high school. Be patient. It's more important that
she comes back to math on her own terms. Then she'll remember what
she learns and have a chance to enjoy it. She has the rest of her
life to learn math if she wants to. It doesn't matter where she
"should" be right now. When she's ready, she'll be able to learn it
so much better and faster than she will now if coerced. You'll lose
more ground in the long run if she continues to develop a dislike for
math.

Sorry to ramble so! Hope it helps!


Diane from KS
jagwirtz@...

Jeff & Diane Gwirtz

Lisa -Great reply!! I especially like the analogy to the amusement
park. I used to be one of those people that tried to make sure we
had everything covered. It's so much more fun and less stressful to
enjoy where you are right now. Also loved you comment - don't let
fear ruin the journey.

Diane from KS
jagwirtz@...

The O'Donnells

Hi!

I was curious as to the many comments of school and curricula that I've
seen mentioned here. I'm acquainted with unschooling but have not met many
that hs like I do - some unschooling and some curricula. Do you all
unschool in this fashion?


Love,

Laraine
praxis@...

David Albert

The O'Donnells wrote:

> From: The O'Donnells <praxis@...>
>
> Hi!
>
> I was curious as to the many comments of school and curricula that
> I've
> seen mentioned here. I'm acquainted with unschooling but have not met
> many
> that hs like I do - some unschooling and some curricula. Do you all
> unschool in this fashion?
>
> Love,
>
> Laraine
> praxis@...

we are
"do-what-seems-to-work-at-the-time-it-is-working-without-any-assumption-that-it-will-work-tomorrow-or
next-year-or-for-any-other-child-at-any-time-except-that-it-happens-to-meet-this-child's-goals-right-now-and-they-may-change-schoolers"

David

The O'Donnells

At 07:57 PM 9/3/99 +0000, you wrote:

>Often, homeschoolers come to unschooling gradually. First they give
>up the spelling tests, then the grammar lesson. It seems like the
>last to go is often the math book. That's the way it was with us.

So tell me more about how this happened. Somehow I can see it coming for
us but it scares me to death. How do I make sure that they get all they
need in math with unschooling and be sure they would not be thrown for a
loop if, God forbid, a truck hit me head on and they were thrown back into
ps? Another concern I have is once they learn what they need to know is it
hard for them to put it down on paper or do they know what to do with
problems on paper if/when they encounter them.

My one dd, age 10, had a horrible time in ps with math and now has a bushel
of attitudes to show for it. This makes it hard - I know she is already
behind where she would be in ps and I don't want her to lose any more
ground. Suggestions welcome!


In His Service,

Laraine
praxis@...

Barb and Vince

Laraine,
I do! I have a lot of reference books, text books, workbooks, computer
programs, reading books, etc. We use some of them, but do so pretty much at
the kids' discretion. So I consider us a combination - kinda relaxed
hs'ing.
Barb

The O'Donnells

At 05:57 PM 9/3/99 -0700, you wrote:
>
>we are
>"do-what-seems-to-work-at-the-time-it-is-working-without-any-assumption-tha
t-it-will-work-tomorrow-or
>next-year-or-for-any-other-child-at-any-time-except-that-it-happens-to-meet
-this-child's-goals-right-now-and-they-may-change-schoolers"
>
>David
>
Yahoo! Perhaps I've finally found a place to be! ROTFL!
In His Service,

Laraine
praxis@...

Lisa Bugg

Hi Laraine!
> So tell me more about how this happened. Somehow I can see it coming for
> us but it scares me to death.

Don't be scared! You know the ps didn't work in the first place, so now you
have the freedom to try anything and everything. If something doesn't fit,
you throw it out and find something else. This process brings incredible
joy and transformations. Don't let fear ruin the journey. :)

<<How do I make sure that they get all they
> need in math with unschooling >>

Well, how were you going to be sure with a textbook? What if the textbook
left something out,or didn't stress it enough or was just plain wrong about
something? Those texts were written by humans, so they are magical.

There is a secret here and it's hard to believe at first.....but you don't
have to be sure they will get all they need. THEY will be sure they get
what they need, because the NEED it. This sometimes means that their time
table will be vasty skewed from the public school time table, which can be
uncomfortable.

>>and be sure they would not be thrown for a
> loop if, God forbid, a truck hit me head on and they were thrown back into
> ps? >>

If you die, their ability to do math in concert with some public school
classroom will be the least of their concerns. Living in fear isn't a great
way to live.

<<Another concern I have is once they learn what they need to know is it
> hard for them to put it down on paper or do they know what to do with
> problems on paper if/when they encounter them.>>

I'm not following you here. Our kids use real life, need to solve real life
problems, writing them down to sort them out is one option. Thankfully it's
not the only option. I create many word problems......but I rarely write
them out. I TALK them out. There are members of this list snorting about
now, as they have tried to sort out my written problems. It's better to
call me on the phone. :)

Now what do I do when I encounter a written problem, or something to sort
out? I go read it out loud to myself or I have my dh read it. I talk
through my answer and THEN I write it out. Sort of.

School Math ruins Real Math. There are mathie types on the list that will
do justice to what math really is. Just rest assured that out unschooled
kids *get* and *do* math just fine.

>>> My one dd, age 10, had a horrible time in ps with math and now has a
bushel
> of attitudes to show for it. This makes it hard - I know she is already
> behind where she would be in ps and I don't want her to lose any more
> ground. Suggestions welcome!>>

First put away all those Shoulds. They are a false set of ideas. Should all
3 month olds be able to sit up? 6 month olds? When should all babies be
walking? If we know enough not to put our babies on a timetable, why do we
think all 9 year olds ought to understand multiplication or all 13 year olds
should be introduced to algebra?? Each child has his or her own time
table. Cognitive growth comes in spurts just like physical growth. We
should wait for it and enjoy it when it happens.

I have a 5 year old that just sounded out her first word a couple of days
ago. She's spending tons of time trying to read everything that comes her
way. Her 7.5 year old brother hasn't discovered the existance of the
alphabet yet. Wait.. he knows on and off and ok and a few other words that
appear on his video games. Otherwise that son exists in a word of things.
Things to do, things to take apart, things to break, things to talk about.
No words and no reading allowed, at least not yet.

Losing ground can't be done. Think of learning as a huge amusement park.
Lots of rides, shows and sights to see. It matters not what you do first or
how many times you choose to do the same thing. It only matters that you
take care of yourself while there and that you explore until your heart is
content. Some of us will hone in and only ride the very fast, daredevil
rollercoasters. Some will only see the shows. We all will have a great time
and feel we got out money's worth. Not everyone has to ride the
rollercoaster and not everyone has to be a math whiz. And not everyone has
to do math first thing, they can ride the rollercoaster first, then
somewhere around 13-14 they can work on math. :)

Did ya ever go anywhere with someone who wanted to see ALL the sights and
ride ALL the rides?? Did ya notice they spent so much time trying to cram
everything in they forgot to have fun? Don't do that to your homeschooling
adventure.

Now I have to go back to writing the stuff I was writing, cause I need to.
But this was a whole lot more fun. :)

Lisa

[email protected]

laraine,

i think since anyone can join this list there must be a very wide variety of
us! i personally use a little curriculum/methodology, but have an
unschooling mentality, and feel very unschooly relative to my local
contemporaries. yet if compared with some unschoolers (maybe many on this
list?), i imagine not as purist as some. ya know?

erin
mom of laura 9, lyn 7, landon 3, and liam 14mos

The O'Donnells

At 10:41 PM 9/3/99 -0400, you wrote:
i personally use a little curriculum/methodology, but have an
>unschooling mentality, and feel very unschooly relative to my local
>contemporaries. yet if compared with some unschoolers (maybe many on this
>list?), i imagine not as purist as some. ya know?


Erin,

I totally understand. In my support group I'm one of the more structured
ones. Yet compared to some other support groups around I'm radical. Quite
a funny place to be. That's why it will be nice to be on a list that
sounds a little more like what I've learned to do with my dds.


In His Service,

Laraine
praxis@...

Lisa Bugg

Those texts were written by humans, so they are magical.

Aren't magical.. AREN'T Sigh.

I'm sure there are more mistakes in there Mistakes are what happens when
you are sneaking time at the computer when you are supposed to be doing
something else.

bye now!

Lisa
----- Original Message -----
From: Lisa Bugg <LisaBugg@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, September 03, 1999 9:27 PM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Unschooling or Eclectic?


> From: "Lisa Bugg" <LisaBugg@...>
>
> Hi Laraine!
> > So tell me more about how this happened. Somehow I can see it coming
for
> > us but it scares me to death.
>
> Don't be scared! You know the ps didn't work in the first place, so now
you
> have the freedom to try anything and everything. If something doesn't fit,
> you throw it out and find something else. This process brings incredible
> joy and transformations. Don't let fear ruin the journey. :)
>
> <<How do I make sure that they get all they
> > need in math with unschooling >>
>
> Well, how were you going to be sure with a textbook? What if the textbook
> left something out,or didn't stress it enough or was just plain wrong
about
> something? Those texts were written by humans, so they are magical.
>
> There is a secret here and it's hard to believe at first.....but you don't
> have to be sure they will get all they need. THEY will be sure they get
> what they need, because the NEED it. This sometimes means that their
time
> table will be vasty skewed from the public school time table, which can be
> uncomfortable.
>
> >>and be sure they would not be thrown for a
> > loop if, God forbid, a truck hit me head on and they were thrown back
into
> > ps? >>
>
> If you die, their ability to do math in concert with some public school
> classroom will be the least of their concerns. Living in fear isn't a
great
> way to live.
>
> <<Another concern I have is once they learn what they need to know is it
> > hard for them to put it down on paper or do they know what to do with
> > problems on paper if/when they encounter them.>>
>
> I'm not following you here. Our kids use real life, need to solve real
life
> problems, writing them down to sort them out is one option. Thankfully
it's
> not the only option. I create many word problems......but I rarely write
> them out. I TALK them out. There are members of this list snorting about
> now, as they have tried to sort out my written problems. It's better to
> call me on the phone. :)
>
> Now what do I do when I encounter a written problem, or something to sort
> out? I go read it out loud to myself or I have my dh read it. I talk
> through my answer and THEN I write it out. Sort of.
>
> School Math ruins Real Math. There are mathie types on the list that will
> do justice to what math really is. Just rest assured that out unschooled
> kids *get* and *do* math just fine.
>
> >>> My one dd, age 10, had a horrible time in ps with math and now has a
> bushel
> > of attitudes to show for it. This makes it hard - I know she is already
> > behind where she would be in ps and I don't want her to lose any more
> > ground. Suggestions welcome!>>
>
> First put away all those Shoulds. They are a false set of ideas. Should
all
> 3 month olds be able to sit up? 6 month olds? When should all babies be
> walking? If we know enough not to put our babies on a timetable, why do
we
> think all 9 year olds ought to understand multiplication or all 13 year
olds
> should be introduced to algebra?? Each child has his or her own time
> table. Cognitive growth comes in spurts just like physical growth. We
> should wait for it and enjoy it when it happens.
>
> I have a 5 year old that just sounded out her first word a couple of days
> ago. She's spending tons of time trying to read everything that comes her
> way. Her 7.5 year old brother hasn't discovered the existance of the
> alphabet yet. Wait.. he knows on and off and ok and a few other words
that
> appear on his video games. Otherwise that son exists in a word of things.
> Things to do, things to take apart, things to break, things to talk about.
> No words and no reading allowed, at least not yet.
>
> Losing ground can't be done. Think of learning as a huge amusement park.
> Lots of rides, shows and sights to see. It matters not what you do first
or
> how many times you choose to do the same thing. It only matters that you
> take care of yourself while there and that you explore until your heart is
> content. Some of us will hone in and only ride the very fast, daredevil
> rollercoasters. Some will only see the shows. We all will have a great
time
> and feel we got out money's worth. Not everyone has to ride the
> rollercoaster and not everyone has to be a math whiz. And not everyone
has
> to do math first thing, they can ride the rollercoaster first, then
> somewhere around 13-14 they can work on math. :)
>
> Did ya ever go anywhere with someone who wanted to see ALL the sights and
> ride ALL the rides?? Did ya notice they spent so much time trying to cram
> everything in they forgot to have fun? Don't do that to your
homeschooling
> adventure.
>
> Now I have to go back to writing the stuff I was writing, cause I need to.
> But this was a whole lot more fun. :)
>
> Lisa
>
>
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> If not, join our MEMBER NEWSLETTER here:
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> Check it out!
> http://www.unschooling.com
>
>

Campbell & Wyman

Here-here. I am one of the types that do some unschooling and some
curriculum. And that is why I home learn...because I love the freedom of
choice in whatever shape and configuration my family chooses. Things change
year to year and I find that I loosen up more all the time but I do believe
that there is a process to the parent/teacher letting go of our old
perceptions of how we all learn...and that (like our children <g>) we need
to go through this process at our own special pace.

My three cents...or more . :)
Warmly,
Brooke


At 08:22 PM 9/3/99 -0400, you wrote:
>From: The O'Donnells <praxis@...>
>
>Hi!
>
>I was curious as to the many comments of school and curricula that I've
>seen mentioned here. I'm acquainted with unschooling but have not met many
>that hs like I do - some unschooling and some curricula. Do you all
>unschool in this fashion?
>
>
>Love,
>
>Laraine
>praxis@...
>
>
>
>--------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ----------------------------
>
>ATTN ONELIST USERS: stay current on the latest activities,
>programs, & features at ONElist by joining our member newsletter at
><a href=" http://www.onelist.com/subscribe/onelist_announce ">Click</a>
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Check it out!
>http://www.unschooling.com
>
>
brynlee@...

David Albert

> >
> > Well, how were you going to be sure with a textbook? What if the
> textbook
> > left something out,or didn't stress it enough or was just plain
> wrong
> about
> > something? Those texts were written by humans, so they are magical.
> >

My 9-year-old found a mistake in the first textbook she ever encountered
- for a high school life sciences course. The introduction, trying to
get preachy about the process of science, talked about "man's" (hmm.)
first adventures to explore our nearest planet Mars! From her room we
heard a maddened "That's not right!!!" Anyhow, the first assignment we
agreed upon was that she write letters to the publisher, editor, and
University of Missouri instructor pointing out the error.

Great lesson, too! Now she NEVER takes anything for granted.

David Albert

David Albert

MORELFAM@... wrote:

> From: MORELFAM@...
>
> david,
> love-that-creative-answer!
> erin
>
> -Thanks! Then you'll love my book (which the publisher insists will
> be out September 20 and I'm having trouble waiting!). By September
> 12, you should be able to access my website to read sample chapters,
> etc. www.skylarksings.com

David

The O'Donnells

At 09:27 PM 9/3/99 -0500, you wrote:
>From: "Lisa Bugg" <LisaBugg@...>
>
>Hi Laraine!
>> So tell me more about how this happened. Somehow I can see it coming for
>> us but it scares me to death.
>
>Don't be scared!

OK, now I see where my kids get their melodrama from. :o) When I say
scares me to death what I really meant was - I can't see where it is going
and what I will use to continue. If find that more unsettling than I'm
ready to deal with I suppose. I can't see the next step if I toss the text
book. Is that any more clear?

><<How do I make sure that they get all they
>> need in math with unschooling >>
>
>Well, how were you going to be sure with a textbook?

As magical as they 'are' <VBG> I've met the wrong answers. They don't
bother me. I just explain that the books are done by people and we all
make mistakes. BUT, the textbook supplies me with the outline of what,
i.e., 2 digit multiplication, division, fractions, decimals, geometry (they
could leave that one out as far as I'm concerned :o) and the steps that
get the kids to the understanding of how to do these things. I don't see
how they learn long division unschooling. Hope that helps.
>
This sometimes means that their time
>table will be vasty skewed from the public school time table, which can be
>uncomfortable.

I find that very uncomfortable. My own mother died young thus I think of
these things. And in my first year attempt (just starting year 2) of hsing
I had to consider what approach I would take in each subject to keep the
kids at a point where no subject would be an albatross during a time where
they already had enough to deal with, specifically the loss of any parent.
That loss is enough in and of itself. To be burdened with an extra problem
of not being where they need to be in a subject, whether it be English
Grammar, Spelling or Math is something I don't want to put my kids through.

>
>If you die, their ability to do math in concert with some public school
>classroom will be the least of their concerns. Living in fear isn't a great
>way to live.

I don't really live in fear of this I'm just aware that none of us have any
promise of tomorrow or even later today. I look at it more as a reason
behind my choices.
>
><<Another concern I have is once they learn what they need to know is it
>> hard for them to put it down on paper or do they know what to do with
>> problems on paper if/when they encounter them.>>
>
>I'm not following you here.

OK, let me try again. Does unschooling teach a child to recognize the
mathematic symbols used in textbooks? From the unschoolers I've known math
is mostly mental math - which is great - yet I don't see where they
experience the math sentence and different layouts of mathematic problems
on paper. I would think this could potentially cause a problem at some
point would it not?

I once worked with a guy (ps high school grad) that couldn't count to 5 let
alone write a sensible math statement. Talk about scary! This kid (18 or
19) couldn't even count items from one box to another - he must have never
used manipulatives. LOL It was scary to me to think that any 18-19 yo
could be so unknowledgeable in basic math. This it is possible for a child
to end up in such a state. Obviously this is an extreme in life, not one
that many will experience but I want to be sure my children can read and
write math problems in such a way as to be employable.

>School Math ruins Real Math. There are mathie types on the list that will
>do justice to what math really is.

OK so what is Real Math?
>
> And not everyone has
>to do math first thing, they can ride the rollercoaster first, then
>somewhere around 13-14 they can work on math. :)

So you are saying that ages 13-14 is where math should begin? Thus
entering into the algebras, trigs, geometry, etc.? Then where is the
child's base? Math like any other subject must have a foundation. When
did they learn multiplication (note I didn't say memorize the entire
multiplication table) and division, fractions, decimals, etc.
>
>Did ya ever go anywhere with someone who wanted to see ALL the sights and
>ride ALL the rides?? Did ya notice they spent so much time trying to cram
>everything in they forgot to have fun? Don't do that to your homeschooling
>adventure.

Ooops! Maybe that's the problem - I'm the guy trying to see all the sites
and ride all the rides! I don't want to miss anything! :o) I smile but I
really am the kind of person that does just what you wrote. Although from
my perspective I still have fun, just not with reckless abandon.
>
>Now I have to go back to writing the stuff I was writing, cause I need to.
>But this was a whole lot more fun. :)

Lisa, Thanks for taking the time to respond. I enjoyed this too. Some of
my questions are perhaps not worded quite right just yet as I'm still
unraveling my concerns - kind of thinking out loud. But give me time and
I'll eventually figure out exactly what it is I'm trying to say boggles me
about this subject. Thanks again!


In His Service,

Laraine
praxis@...

[email protected]

In a message dated 9/3/99 7:28:01 PM EST, praxis@... writes:

<< - some unschooling and some curricula. Do you all
unschool in this fashion? >>

Hi! yes, I do home school like that, we use a little of this and a little of
that. Whatever works for our family. Sometimes I feel like I am completely
disorganized, and should really have lesson plans, or at least a plan! LOL,
but then things go on their own way with a life of their own. One thing, we
are never dull!!
Teresa

Andi Kaufman

loraine wrote:
>I was curious as to the many comments of school and curricula that I've
>seen mentioned here. I'm acquainted with unschooling but have not met many
>that hs like I do - some unschooling and some curricula. Do you all
>unschool in this fashion?

I consider myself a relaxed learner and my son that too. he needs more in
the form of structure then i do.

we do a bit of everything. whatever works at the time. I love the idea of
unschooling but i cant bring myself to it. somepday maybe and some day
maybe not.

Andi...domestic goddess and active volunteer
mom to Isaac
tl2b@...

Never Underestimate the Power of This Woman!

[email protected]

Lisa,
I gotta tell ya, that was one of the neatest answers to letting go to
unschool that I have heard. It has helped me a lot, still not completely
ready, but moving that way more and more! LOL
Teresa

MLS

I really appreciated your discussion below. Can we return to and pick up
with the question "what is real math?"
Thanks~
Mary~

> OK, let me try again. Does unschooling teach a child to recognize the
> mathematic symbols used in textbooks? From the unschoolers I've known
math
> is mostly mental math - which is great - yet I don't see where they
> experience the math sentence and different layouts of mathematic problems
> on paper. I would think this could potentially cause a problem at some
> point would it not?
>
> I once worked with a guy (ps high school grad) that couldn't count to 5
let
> alone write a sensible math statement. Talk about scary! This kid (18 or
> 19) couldn't even count items from one box to another - he must have never
> used manipulatives. LOL It was scary to me to think that any 18-19 yo
> could be so unknowledgeable in basic math. This it is possible for a
child
> to end up in such a state. Obviously this is an extreme in life, not one
> that many will experience but I want to be sure my children can read and
> write math problems in such a way as to be employable.
>
> >School Math ruins Real Math. There are mathie types on the list that
will
> >do justice to what math really is.
>
> OK so what is Real Math?
> >
> > And not everyone has
> >to do math first thing, they can ride the rollercoaster first, then
> >somewhere around 13-14 they can work on math. :)
>
> So you are saying that ages 13-14 is where math should begin? Thus
> entering into the algebras, trigs, geometry, etc.? Then where is the
> child's base? Math like any other subject must have a foundation. When
> did they learn multiplication (note I didn't say memorize the entire
> multiplication table) and division, fractions, decimals, etc.
> >
> >Did ya ever go anywhere with someone who wanted to see ALL the sights and
> >ride ALL the rides?? Did ya notice they spent so much time trying to
cram
> >everything in they forgot to have fun? Don't do that to your
homeschooling
> >adventure.
>
> Ooops! Maybe that's the problem - I'm the guy trying to see all the sites
> and ride all the rides! I don't want to miss anything! :o) I smile but I
> really am the kind of person that does just what you wrote. Although from
> my perspective I still have fun, just not with reckless abandon.
> >
> >Now I have to go back to writing the stuff I was writing, cause I need
to.
> >But this was a whole lot more fun. :)
>
> Lisa, Thanks for taking the time to respond. I enjoyed this too. Some
of
> my questions are perhaps not worded quite right just yet as I'm still
> unraveling my concerns - kind of thinking out loud. But give me time and
> I'll eventually figure out exactly what it is I'm trying to say boggles me
> about this subject. Thanks again!
>
>
> In His Service,
>
> Laraine
> praxis@...
>

MLS

Me too~
A blend~
Mary~


> I totally understand. In my support group I'm one of the more structured
> ones. Yet compared to some other support groups around I'm radical.
Quite
> a funny place to be. That's why it will be nice to be on a list that
> sounds a little more like what I've learned to do with my dds.
>
>
> In His Service,
>
> Laraine
> praxis@...
>
> --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ----------------------------
>
> Start a new ONElist list & you can WIN great prizes!
> For details on ONElist's NEW FRIENDS & FAMILY program, go to
> <a href=" http://clickme.onelist.com/ad/Teaser111 ">Click Here</a>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Check it out!
> http://www.unschooling.com
>

[email protected])

remove me from your list please


thanks
connie

Andi Kaufman

>> So you are saying that ages 13-14 is where math should begin? Thus
>> entering into the algebras, trigs, geometry, etc.? Then where is the
>> child's base? Math like any other subject must have a foundation. When
>> did they learn multiplication (note I didn't say memorize the entire
>> multiplication table) and division, fractions, decimals, etc.

i think the foundation is the life they live before that. isaac was adding
at 2 cus he loved to play with numbers. i will say that unschool math.
actaully we do use books too but i dont "teach" a subject or i use the term
try to help him learn it til he brings it up and most of it comes up in
every day life.

how many plates do we need to set the table
we have tons of math games exp muggins with has really worked on multi and
division. ( no he does not the table by heart but he knows how to figure it
out. )

we havent even considered doing long division.

but we recently did fractions, he said he didnt know enough about them/

then last week he needed to figure out tax so now we are working on percent
which of course will bring up decimals.

BTW , by him self he is trying to put in letters for numbers which is basic
algebra.

i am much more concerned about writing, he hates to write adn it is ahrd to
read. but i dont wnt to push him. i just freak out about it every month or
so. which is my prob not his!

Andi...domestic goddess and active volunteer
mom to Isaac
tl2b@...

Never Underestimate the Power of This Woman!

[email protected]

In a message dated 09/04/1999 12:34:58 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
Faces@... writes:

<< remove me from your list please
>>
you have to contact www.onelist.com

Sam

Thomas and Nanci Kuykendall

Sure! Whatever works for the child is the important thing, not being some
die hard purist with some weird ideals about what Unschooling is "supposed"
to be. To me Unschooling is operating without a schedule (and sometimes
without a net) to address
my children's needs and interests and learning styles throught their
various stages in life. Who knows what will work a year or a month or a
week from any given time. I find that the beauty of Unschooling is the
flexibility.

Nanci K. in Idaho

>I was curious as to the many comments of school and curricula that I've
>seen mentioned here. I'm acquainted with unschooling but have not met many
>that hs like I do - some unschooling and some curricula. Do you all
>unschool in this fashion?
>
>
>Love,
>
>Laraine

[email protected]

In a message dated 9/4/99 1:09:39 AM !!!First Boot!!!,
shantinik@... writes:

<< we are

"do-what-seems-to-work-at-the-time-it-is-working-without-any-assumption-that-i
t-will-work-tomorrow-or

next-year-or-for-any-other-child-at-any-time-except-that-it-happens-to-meet-th
is-child's-goals-right-now-and-they-may-change-schoolers"

David

>>
Perfect -- now if only I could fit that on a biz card.

Nance

Andi Kaufman

>From: Thomas and Nanci Kuykendall <tn-k4of5@...>
>
>Sure! Whatever works for the child is the important thing, not being some
>die hard purist with some weird ideals about what Unschooling is "supposed"
>to be. To me Unschooling is operating without a schedule (and sometimes
>without a net) to address
>my children's needs and interests and learning styles throught their
>various stages in life. Who knows what will work a year or a month or a
>week from any given time. I find that the beauty of Unschooling is the
>flexibility.

i agre nanci, but what do you do when your kids wants a schedual. that is
my biggest prob. the kid loves scheduals and i abhore them!

Andi...domestic goddess and active volunteer
mom to Isaac
tl2b@...

Never Underestimate the Power of This Woman!

Thomas and Nanci Kuykendall

>>Sure! Whatever works for the child is the important thing, not being some
>>die hard purist with some weird ideals about what Unschooling is "supposed"
>>to be. To me Unschooling is operating without a schedule (and sometimes
>>without a net) to address
>>my children's needs and interests and learning styles throught their
>>various stages in life. Who knows what will work a year or a month or a
>>week from any given time. I find that the beauty of Unschooling is the
>>flexibility.
>
>i agre nanci, but what do you do when your kids wants a schedual. that is
>my biggest prob. the kid loves scheduals and i abhore them!
>
>Andi

let them make up their own schedules! As long as they don't clash with the
rest of the family that is!

Nanci K.

Andi Kaufman

>let them make up their own schedules! As long as they don't clash with the
>rest of the family that is!

thanks nanci, I tried that and he just got mad at me for not having plans.
so now i am making a caladar of my plans and what our homeschool group is
doing byt the month and i am going to see how he handles that.

Andi...domestic goddess and active volunteer
mom to Isaac
tl2b@...

Never Underestimate the Power of This Woman!