Bronwen

Kimberly wrote

>>Should I TRUST my children? Well, after that EUREKA moment, the answer was YES>>

Your post made me cry.

Thank you for sharing it.

Love to you,
Bronwen




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 09/08/2001 5:55:51 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
SandraDodd@... writes:


> Aren't those "eureka!" moments the epitome of the exchanges of information
> we're all voluntarily engaged in?

I wanted to say that it seems I may have finally learned that sometimes it's
better to not jump in on a topic with my beliefs, as from all the recent
debate I have hit a EUREKA moment. Although I may not always agree with all
of you ( I really think that is plain impossible with this bunch of ladies
since you're all SO different. Which keeps us all thinking, so it's a good
thing lol), I learn alot by you all making me think about things a little
more.

Let me share with you my EUREKA moment, and I know many will not agree with
my thinking, but I'm hitting myself on the head over what I didnt' see
before. It hit me as I was thinking about how the more "radical" ladies allow
their children to stay up to whatever hour they feel like TRUSTING their
child, letting their child play guns TRUSTING their child, etc. And, of
course, I was thinking of the recent heated posts I've read. I believe it was
Dawn who shared about the good thing about homeschooling is that in PS it's a
dictatorship (I'm sorry if I've got the wrong person and I'm sorry for
totally not saying it as eloquently as it was originally put). I was thinking
about that post when EUREKA. I am a hypocrite. I tell others I want to be
respected for having my own beliefs, that I don't like being told my way of
doing things is wrong, that I want to be respected. YET, I tell my children
what they are allowed to play with, where they are allowed to go, when they
are allowed to go there, what television shows they are allowed to watch,
what things they are allowed and not allowed to say. I understand and respect
that many people need those limits, as I strongly felt I needed. But for ME,
MYSELF, MY OWN PERSONAL SELF, I hit a EUREKA moment. Who am I to tell others
I want to be fully respected when I don't fully respect my children. Who am I
to dictate my children's lives to the extent that I do when I despise anyone
dictating my life in any way, shape, or form. Who am I to be a hypocrite.

I have been a dictator in our home. I have told my fiance that I do NOT want
him having encouraging my son to follow certain interests becaus I do not
agree with them. I haven't allowed my children to watch certain television
shows because I
feel they are against MY beliefs. I sit there and say I want my children to
choose to be christian for themselves, yet I push my christian beliefs on
them. Yet I tell others that I would never push my christian beliefs on
another person. I am a hypocrite. That is the conclusion I have come to. I
have tumbled it through my head most of the day. I debated about should I
RELAX a bit more? Should I TRUST my children? Well, after that EUREKA moment,
the answer was YES (although a shaky yes because I have some very strong
opinions about things that I know my children will pursue once I relax) I sat
down and shared this with my life partner and he got that "dear in the
headlights" look. I can only imagine the shock in his mind as I'm telling him
that I'm WRONG and I need to RELAX. He jumped up with how he's always wanted
to take his son shooting, but he knows how I feel about guns. He wanted to
take our son to a monster truck race, BOY did I go off on him over that one!
I have decided what my children will not watch, where they will not go, as
well as so much more. I have been a dictator, something I have said I detest.

So, that's my EUREKA moment. Thanks to the debate this board offers.

I have come to these views of my own free will. No one from this board or
anywhere else is standing behind me with a shotgun to my head. I have not
been hypnotized, brainwashed, or drugged into a false conciesness. I have
meerly hit a most likely life altering EUREKA moment which is the "....
epitome of the exchanges of information
we're all voluntarily engaged in"
Kimberly U


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Bridget E Coffman

On Sun, 9 Sep 2001 02:04:34 EDT Homeschool4us123@... writes:

>
> So, that's my EUREKA moment. Thanks to the debate this board offers.
>
>

You know, I think I may have just had on of my own - Eureka moments that
is.

You are all juming all over me because you percieve what I am doing as
controlling my children. But I would bet good money that many of the
same people who are doing the jumping actually control their children's
lives more than I control mine.
I've heard people say they limit content on TV and movies. I bet at
least one of you is running a net nanny.
That is your decision and more power to you, but it irritates me that
many of you also were willing to jump all over me from day one before you
even asked what I mean by our jobs list.

Bridget

~~~~If electricity comes from electrons...does that mean that morality
comes from morons?~~~~
I sent my Soul through the Invisible,
Some letter of that After-life to spell;
And by and by my Soul returned to me,
And answered, "I Myself am Heaven and Hell." -- The Rubaiyat

[email protected]

In a message dated 9/9/2001 2:05:40 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
Homeschool4us123@... writes:


> been hypnotized, brainwashed, or drugged into a false conciesness. I have
> meerly hit a most likely life altering EUREKA moment which is the "....
> epitome of the exchanges of information
> we're all voluntarily engaged in"
> Kimberly U
>
>

Oh Kimberly!! Your post gave me goosebumps. . . so exciting when we have one
of those revelations isn't it. . . . keep us posted on how its going. . .
bound to be a bit bumpy there for a bit. . . :))

lovemary


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sharon Rudd

What is a "net nanny"?
Sharon

--- Bridget E Coffman <rumpleteasermom@...>
wrote:
> On Sun, 9 Sep 2001 02:04:34 EDT
> Homeschool4us123@... wri
I bet at
> least one of you is running a net nanny.
> > Bridget


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In a message dated 9/9/2001 9:45:29 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
rumpleteasermom@... writes:


> You know, I think I may have just had on of my own - Eureka moments that
> is.
>
> You are all juming all over me because you percieve what I am doing as
> controlling my children. But I would bet good money that many of the
> same people who are doing the jumping actually control their children's
> e


LOLOLOLOL Bridget. . . girl, you are not getting it at all. You are
continually looking at this being others fault and refusing to look within. A
Eureka moment, in my opinion, is when we have a revelation about ourselves. I
just don't think you have Eureka moments about others. . . what others
think/say is not the issue. What is the issue is how we choose to show up in
situations. Anyway, my "need" to explain this is ebbing and so I will bow out
(maybe ;)

lovemary



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Bridget E Coffman

On Sun, 9 Sep 2001 10:43:37 EDT lite2yu@... writes:
>
> LOLOLOLOL Bridget. . . girl, you are not getting it at all. You are
> continually looking at this being others fault and refusing to look
> within. A Eureka moment, in my opinion, is when we have a revelation
about
> ourselves. I just don't think you have Eureka moments about others. .
. what
> others think/say is not the issue. What is the issue is how we choose
to
> show up in situations. Anyway, my "need" to explain this is ebbing and
so I
> will bow out (maybe ;)
>
> lovemary
>

Actually, I think you are the one who is not getting it. I did look
within and what I found was someone who has trusted her kids implicitly
form the first day we started homeschooling in 1995 (I think that's the
right year). My girls have had the ultimate unschooled experience for 6
years. This year, we added a bit of direction at Rachel's request
because of what she wants to be doing next year.
I don't know what the problem is here but from the moment I started
talking, you all assumed you knew who I was and where I was coming from.
I was told some pretty rude and insulting things from the very beginning.
Had I been someone truly struggling with the concepts, I would have cut
and run pretty far back. I have no problem with your methods, your
theories or your conversation. But I think it is a shame that you would
treat a relative stranger this way when what you ought to be doing is
putting a better face on the concept. Really, think about it, if I had
left this group back on Saturday, when I was first told that I am wrong,
I would have taken away the opinion that you are all a bunch of fanatic
nut cases who only believe in your own little sliver of homeschooling.
Is that really what you want to accomplish? Driving away those who are
willing to speak up because you think they don't agree with you?
I'll let you in on a little secret too . . . I would have left then had I
not been here because of a specific other person's request that I join.
That's why I stuck around long enough to find out that you are not ALL
rude and obnoxious here and why I will probably stick around for a while
longer.

Bridget

~~~~If electricity comes from electrons...does that mean that morality
comes from morons?~~~~
I sent my Soul through the Invisible,
Some letter of that After-life to spell;
And by and by my Soul returned to me,
And answered, "I Myself am Heaven and Hell." -- The Rubaiyat

Bridget E Coffman

On Sun, 9 Sep 2001 07:38:09 -0700 (PDT) Sharon Rudd
<bearspawprint@...> writes:
> What is a "net nanny"?
> Sharon

It's a program to monitor and control where your children can go on the
net.

Bridget - whose kids can go look at porn if they want to - But I'm so
obviously micro-managing their lives that I've been criticized from my
second day here!



~~~~If electricity comes from electrons...does that mean that morality
comes from morons?~~~~
I sent my Soul through the Invisible,
Some letter of that After-life to spell;
And by and by my Soul returned to me,
And answered, "I Myself am Heaven and Hell." -- The Rubaiyat

[email protected]

In a message dated 9/9/01 7:45:45 AM, rumpleteasermom@... writes:

<< But I would bet good money that many of the
same people who are doing the jumping actually control their children's
lives more than I control mine. >>

Well you're hoping, because you're looking desperately for ways NOT to change
what you're doing and yet still be considered by people on this list as an
unschooler.

It's fascinating, the whole edge of unschooling. People so want to be called
unschoolers without actually taking those final steps that make the real
difference.



Sandra

"Everything counts."
http://expage.com/SandraDoddArticles
http://expage.com/SandraDodd

[email protected]

In a message dated 9/9/01 9:32:18 AM, rumpleteasermom@... writes:

<< But I think it is a shame that you would
treat a relative stranger this way when what you ought to be doing is
putting a better face on the concept. >>

The good face on the concept is our kids' success stories and happiness.

<<if I had
left this group back on Saturday, when I was first told that I am wrong,
I would have taken away the opinion that you are all a bunch of fanatic
nut cases who only believe in your own little sliver of homeschooling. >>

You still seem to believe that, only you've chosen to stay.

It's fascinating.

Sandra

"Everything counts."
http://expage.com/SandraDoddArticles
http://expage.com/SandraDodd

Bridget E Coffman

On Sun, 9 Sep 2001 11:54:01 EDT SandraDodd@... writes:
>
>
> You still seem to believe that, only you've chosen to stay.
>
> It's fascinating.
>
> Sandra
>

I've chosen to stay because a few OTHER people have said things to make
me think perhaps you are one of only a few here who are willing to bash a
newcomer before you have any idea about their philosophy, family life or
educational style.

Bridget


~~~~If electricity comes from electrons...does that mean that morality
comes from morons?~~~~
I sent my Soul through the Invisible,
Some letter of that After-life to spell;
And by and by my Soul returned to me,
And answered, "I Myself am Heaven and Hell." -- The Rubaiyat

Bridget E Coffman

On Sun, 9 Sep 2001 11:55:06 EDT SandraDodd@... writes:
>
> Do you let your kids go on the computer any hour of the day or night
> as long as they want to?
>
> Sandra
>

Well, they used to have to go to the library to get online (so did I) for
any length of time becaus ewe had limited phone service. I have recently
switched to unlimited phone service so now, yes they can log on whenever
and for however long as long as there is not a three person line waiting
to be next. In that case they have to practice common courtesy but then
so do I. And they can go whereever on the net they want too.

Bridget


~~~~If electricity comes from electrons...does that mean that morality
comes from morons?~~~~
I sent my Soul through the Invisible,
Some letter of that After-life to spell;
And by and by my Soul returned to me,
And answered, "I Myself am Heaven and Hell." -- The Rubaiyat

Bridget E Coffman

On Sun, 9 Sep 2001 11:39:50 EDT SandraDodd@... writes:
>
> Well you're hoping, because you're looking desperately for ways NOT to
change
> what you're doing and yet still be considered by people on this list
as an
> unschooler.
>
> It's fascinating, the whole edge of unschooling. People so want to be
called
> unschoolers without actually taking those final steps that make the
real
> difference.
>


As I said this morning - I don't particularly care what you call me. In
fact you can call me that crazy bitch if you want to. What I object to
is the fact that I've been told all of the following things and these
were before you even knew anything about me.

1. I am not unschooling - but you have no idea what the dynamics here
are and whether it is or is not unschooling

2. I am being dishonest with my kids (even though they know what I do)
over the TV cable issue

3. I don't belong on this list - good way to promote your philosophy -
tell those who are even a little bit different to go away right up front!

4. That I am telling YOU that you are doing it wrong. (Ihaven't said
word one about what I think of what YOU are doing.)

5. In a round about way, that I don't offer my kids enough options.
(even when I was bedridden, they had TONS of options. My girls used
them, my son did not.)

I have not said one word to any of you that even indicated that I thought
you were falling short as parents but the criticism lobbed at me has been
downright shocking! But then the actual critical stuff came from only
two or three people.

Bridget


~~~~If electricity comes from electrons...does that mean that morality
comes from morons?~~~~
I sent my Soul through the Invisible,
Some letter of that After-life to spell;
And by and by my Soul returned to me,
And answered, "I Myself am Heaven and Hell." -- The Rubaiyat

Sharon Rudd

--- SandraDodd@... wrote:

> << > What is a "net nanny"?
> > Sharon
>
> It's a program to monitor and control where your
> children can go on the
> net. >>
>
> Do you let your kids go on the computer any hour of
> the day or night as long
> as they want to?
>
> Sandra
....................................................
Well yes, of course! ......The oldest 3 and the sister
of whom I had custody are all adults, the youngest, 7,
can do what he likes...but the internet doesn't
attract him too much yet. Kathryn's links have
intrigued him some...and I've done some searches that
caught his attention now and again, but mostly it is
too slow for him to stick with for very long. We have
a few cds that he likes. Math Blaster, Explorapedia,
some others. He occasionally will send an ecard or
email to someone special. Observing his tastes with TV
he likes the sort of things that even I consider to be
worthwhile. I have been blessed with youngsters that
continually amaze me with their inborn goodness. They
are so NICE! So, yes, they have access to whatever.
And I signed a form at the library saying the 7 yr old
could access the net without limitations. 'course he
can't get there without me. I know how to back track
spam or other offensive material to its source
(usually) so I feel relatively safe in my ability to
protect my child from predators. He does have some
guidelines about releasing information which are
basically the same as telephone ettiquite and safety.
The older kiddos learned this too. Nobody's starved
for attention or ego boosting so that's not a
danger...knock on wood.

The thing about garbage is that it is so tacky and
boring....not very attractive at all....

Sharon









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I believe she was referring to something like a web blocker where the probram
kinda filters the web pages being viewed and if it has any "undesireable"
content as set forth by either the program itself or the program's settings,
it doesn't allow the site to be viewed. We've been using one. I guess it's
time to think about that one now LOL.

Kimberly U


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

<< The thing about garbage is that it is so tacky and
boring....not very attractive at all....
>>

That seems to be the deal with my kids too.

When we signed Holly on for an AOL screenname, I signed her up as "young
teen" (although she's 9) because they don't let 9 year olds do anything but
go into the AOL kids-only area.

She wasn't able to get instant messages, so I raised it to "mature teen."
She couldn't get onto her own website. So I just put her in as an adult and
said if she got e-mail that said "XXX" or "Penis" she could just delete
it--that's what the rest of us do.

Once one of my kids or one of their guests had pulled up some porn stuff.
Once in several years doesn't bother me much at all. Kirby was reading some
fan fiction that had some sexiness to it (not slasher craziness, just
romance). When I were his age, "Man with a Maid" had already made the
rounds of our group, and *that* is some nasty stuff. I lived.

Sandra

"Everything counts."
http://expage.com/SandraDoddArticles
http://expage.com/SandraDodd

Sharon Rudd

--- Bridget E Coffman <rumpleteasermom@...>
wrote:
In
> fact you can call me that crazy bitch if you want
> to. >
> Bridget
>


Good Grief!! Is this an invitation or a challenge?
Sharon


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Bridget E Coffman

>
> Good Grief!! Is this an invitation or a challenge?
> Sharon
>
>

It's a statement that any title you wish to bestow will be practically
meaningless to me at this point. I've been told I am stupid and don't
know what I am doing. I've been called insulting and authoritarian
(which made my mom laugh out loud because she doesn't see any way for us
to have LESS structure.) So, I've pretty much decided that several of
you are mean, petty and make snap judgements you are unwilling to
re-examine. That being the case, I have very little respect for what you
may call me.

I find it very difficult to believe that you all have perfect little
adults who have needed no guidance in making choices ever. It must be
nice. I unfortunately have children with problems. Addiction and
depression change the rules of engagement a bit. You have implied that
to be a true unschooler I have to unparent too. I don't believe that and
the information on unschooling.com does not support it either.

Bridget

~~~~If electricity comes from electrons...does that mean that morality
comes from morons?~~~~
I sent my Soul through the Invisible,
Some letter of that After-life to spell;
And by and by my Soul returned to me,
And answered, "I Myself am Heaven and Hell." -- The Rubaiyat

Sharon Rudd

Dear Bridget

Pardon me. I didn't say any of the things you just
attributed to me, below. Sorry. A mistake somewhere.


I'm am sorry, too, that you have had so much trouble
in you body and spirit. I do not wish ill health and
pain for you. It must have been more than painfull to
have to part with a child and make contact again. It
seems your heart has been broken in more ways than
one.

We all wish,pray, intend for you to find peace and
healing for yourself and your family.

--- Bridget E Coffman <rumpleteasermom@...>
wrote:
>
>
>
> >
> > Good Grief!! Is this an invitation or a challenge?
> > Sharon
> >
> >
>
> It's a statement that any title you wish to bestow
> will be practically
> meaningless to me at this point. I've been told I
> am stupid and don't
> know what I am doing. I've been called insulting
> and authoritarian
> (which made my mom laugh out loud because she
> doesn't see any way for us
> to have LESS structure.) So, I've pretty much
> decided that several of
> you are mean, petty and make snap judgements you are
> unwilling to
> re-examine. That being the case, I have very little
> respect for what you
> may call me.
>
> I find it very difficult to believe that you all
> have perfect little
> adults who have needed no guidance in making choices
> ever. It must be
> nice. I unfortunately have children with problems.
> Addiction and
> depression change the rules of engagement a bit.
> You have implied that
> to be a true unschooler I have to unparent too. I
> don't believe that and
> the information on unschooling.com does not support
> it either.
>
> Bridget
>
> ~~~~If electricity comes from electrons...does that
> mean that morality
> comes from morons?~~~~
> I sent my Soul through the Invisible,
> Some letter of that After-life to spell;
> And by and by my Soul returned to me,
> And answered, "I Myself am Heaven and Hell."
> -- The Rubaiyat
>


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Bridget E Coffman

That didn't quite come out the way I meant it. I meant that to all
appearances that is what I see, not that I am absolutely convinved of it.

Bridget

On Sun, 9 Sep 2001 19:40:48 -0400 Bridget E Coffman
<rumpleteasermom@...> writes:
> So, I've pretty much decided that several
> of
> you are mean, petty and make snap judgements you are unwilling to
> re-examine. That being the case, I have very little respect for
> what you
> may call me.

~~~~If electricity comes from electrons...does that mean that morality
comes from morons?~~~~
I sent my Soul through the Invisible,
Some letter of that After-life to spell;
And by and by my Soul returned to me,
And answered, "I Myself am Heaven and Hell." -- The Rubaiyat

Bonni Sollars

That is so awesome.
I've been having a lot of those my self. (Eureka!)
Bonni