Re: Re: Money, Status and Higher Education
Thomas and Nanci Kuykendall
I am a volunteer administrator for an organization
"permaculture" activist, and what are the details of you "working together
to build a sustainable community?" I agree with you about people finding
it hard to live up to their ideals when everyone is so focused on money,
and on status in it's various forms. I am proud to say that I am
definately not status oriented, and that our purchases are geared towards
our hapiness and not what other people think of us. However, not being
concerned about "appearances" or about social climbing can be lonely in a
very conservative area like ours :-(...
I think my distaste and often utter digust with that part of our culture
began for me with my mother and her status conscience (more like paranoid
or obsessive) behavior and her materialism. She told me she used to have
Highschool friends (in the early 1950's) drop her off down the block from
her brand new house and she would walk up to someone else's door as if it
were hers until they were out of sight because her house did not have
landscaping in yet (Gasp! Shocking!) She also never had any kind of a real
relationship with me and substituted gifts for her time and attention or
affection.
I think another big step for me away from equating gifts with affection and
worrying about status of opinions was my wedding. We had a change of plans
when we first started planning our wedding and ended up having a very
private ceremony on San Juan Island in Puget Sound with only our parents
invited as witnesses and a lovely weekend on the Island in a B&B honeymoon
cottage. We got cards from some (not all!) of my siblings, and a gift or
two in the mail after the fact, but we never even got a gift from my
parents and we footed the bill for everything from the little cake to the
bouquet/corsages. In retrospect it is one of my happiest memories and I
would not have wanted it any other way, but it was difficult at the time to
let go of the fantasy of a big wedding, with a great big reception and all
our relatives in attendance. I have a huge family and grew up
attending/participating in lots of those type of weddings. Now I am so
glad that we did it the way we did, instead of what was expected.
Nanci K. in Idaho
>that I srongly believe in and a permaculture activist working together toI would love to hear more about this Sandra, it fascinates me. What is a
>build a sustainable community in my area. It is very hard for people to
>live by their true values and principles in our society where we are judged
>by money and acheivement.
"permaculture" activist, and what are the details of you "working together
to build a sustainable community?" I agree with you about people finding
it hard to live up to their ideals when everyone is so focused on money,
and on status in it's various forms. I am proud to say that I am
definately not status oriented, and that our purchases are geared towards
our hapiness and not what other people think of us. However, not being
concerned about "appearances" or about social climbing can be lonely in a
very conservative area like ours :-(...
I think my distaste and often utter digust with that part of our culture
began for me with my mother and her status conscience (more like paranoid
or obsessive) behavior and her materialism. She told me she used to have
Highschool friends (in the early 1950's) drop her off down the block from
her brand new house and she would walk up to someone else's door as if it
were hers until they were out of sight because her house did not have
landscaping in yet (Gasp! Shocking!) She also never had any kind of a real
relationship with me and substituted gifts for her time and attention or
affection.
I think another big step for me away from equating gifts with affection and
worrying about status of opinions was my wedding. We had a change of plans
when we first started planning our wedding and ended up having a very
private ceremony on San Juan Island in Puget Sound with only our parents
invited as witnesses and a lovely weekend on the Island in a B&B honeymoon
cottage. We got cards from some (not all!) of my siblings, and a gift or
two in the mail after the fact, but we never even got a gift from my
parents and we footed the bill for everything from the little cake to the
bouquet/corsages. In retrospect it is one of my happiest memories and I
would not have wanted it any other way, but it was difficult at the time to
let go of the fantasy of a big wedding, with a great big reception and all
our relatives in attendance. I have a huge family and grew up
attending/participating in lots of those type of weddings. Now I am so
glad that we did it the way we did, instead of what was expected.
>There should be the option to go to school or not, to learn by doing andI agree, eloquently said!
>apprenticeship instead of only by books and tests, to raise a family or make
>a million. I guess that instead of saying we should be working for
>universal higher education, what I really meant to say was the goal is the
>*option* for *everyone* to have a higher education if they so choose.
>Sandra Brown
>Ann Arbor, MI where I'll be making sauce, salsa, and pickles all week long
Nanci K. in Idaho
B & T Simpson
7
she is and always has been very materialistic, where I am not, I would love
to live in the country and have lots of animals and a garden ect..., I
cannot right now, I do live in a small town, that is very laid back and I
love it, she on the other hand lives in a much larger city, (lansing) it is
much faster paced, everyone works almost every family is a two income family
where she is, and the bigger the house and cars and the fancier the clothes
the better you are, she is one who is willing to spend $3.00 per person for
a candy bar at the movies, where I am one to buy the 3/99cents and put them
in my purse! she was in awe of the ways that I cut corners to save money
mostly I do it because it just doesn't make sense to me to spend extra if
you don't have to!
but she readily admitted that she could never do it! she would rather bounce
checks trying to look rich than to be proud buying from sales and wait for
something good to come along, I proudly wear my frugal crown and I am sure I
do not rank as queen as of yet, but I am working on it!
Tanya Ohio
http://www.blmall.com/family/family_earth.wc
if a code is needed please enter d81371220
>a
>>>>>I would love to hear more about this Sandra, it fascinates me. What is
>"permaculture" activist, and what are the details of you "working togetherI just came back from spending a week with my friend and her four children,
>to build a sustainable community?" I agree with you about people finding
>it hard to live up to their ideals when everyone is so focused on money,
>and on status in it's various forms. I am proud to say that I am
>definately not status oriented, and that our purchases are geared towards
>our hapiness and not what other people think of us. However, not being
>concerned about "appearances" or about social climbing can be lonely in a
>very conservative area like ours :-(...>>>>
she is and always has been very materialistic, where I am not, I would love
to live in the country and have lots of animals and a garden ect..., I
cannot right now, I do live in a small town, that is very laid back and I
love it, she on the other hand lives in a much larger city, (lansing) it is
much faster paced, everyone works almost every family is a two income family
where she is, and the bigger the house and cars and the fancier the clothes
the better you are, she is one who is willing to spend $3.00 per person for
a candy bar at the movies, where I am one to buy the 3/99cents and put them
in my purse! she was in awe of the ways that I cut corners to save money
mostly I do it because it just doesn't make sense to me to spend extra if
you don't have to!
but she readily admitted that she could never do it! she would rather bounce
checks trying to look rich than to be proud buying from sales and wait for
something good to come along, I proudly wear my frugal crown and I am sure I
do not rank as queen as of yet, but I am working on it!
Tanya Ohio
>Be sure to check out my online mall at
>Tanya M Simpson
http://www.blmall.com/family/family_earth.wc
if a code is needed please enter d81371220
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B & T Simpson
>>>>Whereas our house is 20 years old and tiny by comparrisonUs Too!!! we did have some one frame and side it and did break down and pay
>and in the older section of town which is less affluent. It is also
>currently in a sorry state as we are doing some extensive remodeling, for
>which we did NOT hire a company but are doing ourselves. >>>
someone to drywall but all of the rest including plumbing and heating and
electrical we are doing, we have added a very large garage to put our 1998
and 1993 vehicles in
a family room , a bathroom with laundry and two bedrooms upstairs
almost doubling our homes size!
great learning for the kids, I am not sure, but I think my 8 yo could
probably weld copper pipes!
Tanya Ohio
>>Be sure to check out my online mall at
>Tanya M Simpson
http://www.blmall.com
please enter d81371220 in the space
provided for code number
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Thomas and Nanci Kuykendall
>The ladies in the playgroup we are in all live on the other side of town
>I just came back from spending a week with my friend and her four children,
>she is and always has been very materialistic, where I am not,
and most of them have 3000+ sq. ft new houses for two adults and one or two
toddlers. They all drive newer model cars and have three or more vehicles
for two drivers. Whereas our house is 20 years old and tiny by comparrison
and in the older section of town which is less affluent. It is also
currently in a sorry state as we are doing some extensive remodeling, for
which we did NOT hire a company but are doing ourselves.
>I would loveto live in the country and have lots of animals and a gardenect...,
Sounds lovely! You and me both!
Nanci K. in Idaho
[email protected]
In a message dated 8/30/99 11:13:42 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
tn-k4of5@... writes:
place (800 sq ft) that still needs work done to it (which we also do
ourselves). We live in the NE part of town which, in Portland, is the area
that many people won't consider moving to. (Parts of it, I'd agree with
them, but parts are fine.) Most of my friends live in SW, which is the posh
area of Portland. All of my married friends live in nicer places and drive
nicer cars than we do. But we decided that time together and experiences
(i.e., classes and traveling) are more important than things. Still, it's
intimidating at times to feel so "out-classed."
Elizabeth
tn-k4of5@... writes:
> Whereas our house is 20 years old and tiny by comparrisonIt's so nice to read so many messages like this! We live in a tiny little
> and in the older section of town which is less affluent. It is also
> currently in a sorry state as we are doing some extensive remodeling, for
> which we did NOT hire a company but are doing ourselves.
place (800 sq ft) that still needs work done to it (which we also do
ourselves). We live in the NE part of town which, in Portland, is the area
that many people won't consider moving to. (Parts of it, I'd agree with
them, but parts are fine.) Most of my friends live in SW, which is the posh
area of Portland. All of my married friends live in nicer places and drive
nicer cars than we do. But we decided that time together and experiences
(i.e., classes and traveling) are more important than things. Still, it's
intimidating at times to feel so "out-classed."
Elizabeth