bedtimes
Johanna SanInocencio
Tanya and Dawn have hit on something I would like to ask others their opinion of, bedtimes. What do you folks think about having bedtimes? Do many of you find your children often open up and want to discuss everything personal to them at bedtime? When my children need sone individual time or something is heavy on their hearts, they ask to sleep with me. My husband is on the road most of the time so we usually end up having deep converstions late into the night with the older children. Right now we have bedtimes but I am considering changing it.
Johanna
Life is the ultimate learning experience!
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Johanna
Life is the ultimate learning experience!
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
If it were me I would change the bedtimes. Having those late night talks
sound really special. Maybe it could be agreed that when Dad is home they
will need to decide on their own when they want to go to bed and what they
are going to do if they stay up. Especially if Dad likes to go to bed
earlier. If he is like my husband he wants it reasonably quiet when he is
tired. :)
Candace
sound really special. Maybe it could be agreed that when Dad is home they
will need to decide on their own when they want to go to bed and what they
are going to do if they stay up. Especially if Dad likes to go to bed
earlier. If he is like my husband he wants it reasonably quiet when he is
tired. :)
Candace
[email protected]
Johanna-
We have a lax bedtime. The children know that 8 o'clock is bedtime, however,
they are very rarely in bed by that time. It's more of a time to be all ready
for bed, jammies on, teeth brushed, bathed, yadda yadda yadda. Once all the
kiddies are ready for bed we will sit down to play a family board game, read
books together, work on a computer project together, play silly games. Daddy
doesn't usually get home until around "bedtime" so for us it's our family
time. Once the kids are acting tired we suggest they head off to bed. If they
are in a "so tired i'm irritable" mood we'll tell them, however most of the
time we suggest it and they do go. Most days all the kids are in bed by 10pm.
Kimberly
Kimberly U
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
We have a lax bedtime. The children know that 8 o'clock is bedtime, however,
they are very rarely in bed by that time. It's more of a time to be all ready
for bed, jammies on, teeth brushed, bathed, yadda yadda yadda. Once all the
kiddies are ready for bed we will sit down to play a family board game, read
books together, work on a computer project together, play silly games. Daddy
doesn't usually get home until around "bedtime" so for us it's our family
time. Once the kids are acting tired we suggest they head off to bed. If they
are in a "so tired i'm irritable" mood we'll tell them, however most of the
time we suggest it and they do go. Most days all the kids are in bed by 10pm.
Kimberly
Kimberly U
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
Good topic Johanna
We don't have bedtimes. . . I have Lelia (12) and Quinton (2). They both are
free to go to sleep when they are tired, although sometimes we have to tell
Quinton he is tired LOL.
When I married Bryan he was of the opinion that Lelia needed a bedtime, even
though she hadnt had one. We tried it for awhile but it didnt work out. I
think he just wanted some time with me alone. Now time alone is a rarity, and
it doesnt seem to be an issue.
My thoughts on it are that no one knows what my bedtime should be but me, and
I think the same applies to the kids. Of course, there are times when they
might need a suggestion, because they are so tired. . that happened two night
ago with Lil. . . she needed me to tell her to go to bed because she was too
tired to do it herself. . . she laughed and went on her way. I will say we
have evolved to this though. . . .I needed a re-education on it, and Bryan
DEFINITELY did.
lovemary
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
We don't have bedtimes. . . I have Lelia (12) and Quinton (2). They both are
free to go to sleep when they are tired, although sometimes we have to tell
Quinton he is tired LOL.
When I married Bryan he was of the opinion that Lelia needed a bedtime, even
though she hadnt had one. We tried it for awhile but it didnt work out. I
think he just wanted some time with me alone. Now time alone is a rarity, and
it doesnt seem to be an issue.
My thoughts on it are that no one knows what my bedtime should be but me, and
I think the same applies to the kids. Of course, there are times when they
might need a suggestion, because they are so tired. . that happened two night
ago with Lil. . . she needed me to tell her to go to bed because she was too
tired to do it herself. . . she laughed and went on her way. I will say we
have evolved to this though. . . .I needed a re-education on it, and Bryan
DEFINITELY did.
lovemary
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 9/5/01 10:44:10 AM, saninocencio@... writes:
<< What do you folks think about having bedtimes? >>
We don't have them.
Kirby is an all-nighter risk, so I ask him to get to sleep by 5:00 a.m.
Sometimes he goes to sleep at 2:00 or 3:00 but he's almost always the last
person up, and he gets up at noon. I'm not loose enough to go TOTALLY
"whenever" on him, for a few reasons:
1) I want the house quiet and not consuming too much electricity when my
husband goes to work, partly because I want my husband to sneak out quietly
and not wake up those who are asleep, and if Kirby were awake then there
would be some passive/agressive noisemaking (on the part of my husband).
2) I want Kirby to wake up at noon because of my delicate sensibilities, and
so there are times when nobody has to be quiet, and so his friends know when
they can call.
When Kirby works at 8:30 (Saturdays) he gets up at 7:30.
When he was working a shift at a booth at a convention at 4:00 a.m./morning
and 5:00 a.m./morning (Bubonicon, a schedule made by a teenaged girl and
something the boys just went with), he pulled that off too, without my help
even.
(I tell those stories so people don't think "no bedtime" means no ability to
get up if necessary.)
Holly usually goes to bed about 11:30. Marty usually 1:00 or so.
I am not much of a sleeper. Eight hours is too much for me unless I'm sick
or had some exceptionally strenuous day. I stay up with or later than Holly,
and get up 6:00 or so, usually.
When we all lived in a really small house and the kids were littler, we'd get
it dark and quiet by 10:30 (reading or listening to music in bed was
happening, often). Now that's not necessary.
Sandra
<< What do you folks think about having bedtimes? >>
We don't have them.
Kirby is an all-nighter risk, so I ask him to get to sleep by 5:00 a.m.
Sometimes he goes to sleep at 2:00 or 3:00 but he's almost always the last
person up, and he gets up at noon. I'm not loose enough to go TOTALLY
"whenever" on him, for a few reasons:
1) I want the house quiet and not consuming too much electricity when my
husband goes to work, partly because I want my husband to sneak out quietly
and not wake up those who are asleep, and if Kirby were awake then there
would be some passive/agressive noisemaking (on the part of my husband).
2) I want Kirby to wake up at noon because of my delicate sensibilities, and
so there are times when nobody has to be quiet, and so his friends know when
they can call.
When Kirby works at 8:30 (Saturdays) he gets up at 7:30.
When he was working a shift at a booth at a convention at 4:00 a.m./morning
and 5:00 a.m./morning (Bubonicon, a schedule made by a teenaged girl and
something the boys just went with), he pulled that off too, without my help
even.
(I tell those stories so people don't think "no bedtime" means no ability to
get up if necessary.)
Holly usually goes to bed about 11:30. Marty usually 1:00 or so.
I am not much of a sleeper. Eight hours is too much for me unless I'm sick
or had some exceptionally strenuous day. I stay up with or later than Holly,
and get up 6:00 or so, usually.
When we all lived in a really small house and the kids were littler, we'd get
it dark and quiet by 10:30 (reading or listening to music in bed was
happening, often). Now that's not necessary.
Sandra
[email protected]
In a message dated 09/05/2001 9:28:26 PM !!!First Boot!!!, SandraDodd@...
writes:
We don't have set bedtimes. Those of us who have "normal" body clocks conk
out at about 10ish but ds stays up until goodness knows when. But he had to
get up early, for instance, for an event last week and he set the alarm and
did great.
He's 8.
Nance
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
writes:
> (I tell those stories so people don't think "no bedtime" means no ability toYep.
> get up if necessary.)
>
We don't have set bedtimes. Those of us who have "normal" body clocks conk
out at about 10ish but ds stays up until goodness knows when. But he had to
get up early, for instance, for an event last week and he set the alarm and
did great.
He's 8.
Nance
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Johanna SanInocencio
Thanks Sandra. How old is Kirby? I think this is my worry sometimes. I
remember when I was a teenager I would pull all nighters most of the time
and sleep in till noon. I think you hit the concern with not being able to
get up early when needed. On Wednesday my kids decided to take classes with
the homeschool cooperative this year. This means we must be out the door by
7:15. I don't mind giving the kids flexibility with the bedtime, but when
dad is home, he expects them to turn in early and it becomes an issue.
Johanna
Life is the ultimate learning experience!
remember when I was a teenager I would pull all nighters most of the time
and sleep in till noon. I think you hit the concern with not being able to
get up early when needed. On Wednesday my kids decided to take classes with
the homeschool cooperative this year. This means we must be out the door by
7:15. I don't mind giving the kids flexibility with the bedtime, but when
dad is home, he expects them to turn in early and it becomes an issue.
Johanna
Life is the ultimate learning experience!
----- Original Message -----
From: <SandraDodd@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2001 4:12 PM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] bedtimes
>
> In a message dated 9/5/01 10:44:10 AM, saninocencio@... writes:
>
> << What do you folks think about having bedtimes? >>
>
> We don't have them.
>
> Kirby is an all-nighter risk, so I ask him to get to sleep by 5:00 a.m.
> Sometimes he goes to sleep at 2:00 or 3:00 but he's almost always the last
> person up, and he gets up at noon. I'm not loose enough to go TOTALLY
> "whenever" on him, for a few reasons:
>
> 1) I want the house quiet and not consuming too much electricity when my
> husband goes to work, partly because I want my husband to sneak out
quietly
> and not wake up those who are asleep, and if Kirby were awake then there
> would be some passive/agressive noisemaking (on the part of my husband).
>
> 2) I want Kirby to wake up at noon because of my delicate sensibilities,
and
> so there are times when nobody has to be quiet, and so his friends know
when
> they can call.
>
> When Kirby works at 8:30 (Saturdays) he gets up at 7:30.
> When he was working a shift at a booth at a convention at 4:00
a.m./morning
> and 5:00 a.m./morning (Bubonicon, a schedule made by a teenaged girl and
> something the boys just went with), he pulled that off too, without my
help
> even.
>
> (I tell those stories so people don't think "no bedtime" means no ability
to
> get up if necessary.)
>
> Holly usually goes to bed about 11:30. Marty usually 1:00 or so.
>
> I am not much of a sleeper. Eight hours is too much for me unless I'm
sick
> or had some exceptionally strenuous day. I stay up with or later than
Holly,
> and get up 6:00 or so, usually.
>
> When we all lived in a really small house and the kids were littler, we'd
get
> it dark and quiet by 10:30 (reading or listening to music in bed was
> happening, often). Now that's not necessary.
>
> Sandra
>
>
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[email protected]
<< Thanks Sandra. How old is Kirby? I think this is my worry sometimes. I
remember when I was a teenager I would pull all nighters most of the time
and sleep in till noon. >>
He's 15.
Sandra
"Everything counts."
http://expage.com/SandraDoddArticles
http://expage.com/SandraDodd
remember when I was a teenager I would pull all nighters most of the time
and sleep in till noon. >>
He's 15.
Sandra
"Everything counts."
http://expage.com/SandraDoddArticles
http://expage.com/SandraDodd
[email protected]
It's just me and my 3yo and he doesn't really have a bedtime. But he's gotten
pretty good about his routine, 8-9 ish we start the routine. There have been
some times when I've insisted it's time to go, but I don't think in general
it's a good idea. Mostly it's very relaxed and he's content with that. In
fact, part of our routine is having a 'puppet show' with his small toy
flashlight with the bedroom light off. Then he's got control and he usually
gets to a point and says, 'let's go to sleep' and turns it off. Then I, like
and idiot, get up for my night owl time, sometimes into 2 or 3. I love
nighttime, sometimes I live in denial that I'll have to get up early. :-)
I lived with my sister for a short time and her daughter was 4. She had a
strict routine and bedtime. Which was a fight every single night. Drove me
nuts. With all the fighting and yelling it generally took 2 hours after the
actual 'bedtime' cutoff anyway. I always thought it silly that she didn't
just move the bedtime back, or at least relax a bit.
Brenda
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
pretty good about his routine, 8-9 ish we start the routine. There have been
some times when I've insisted it's time to go, but I don't think in general
it's a good idea. Mostly it's very relaxed and he's content with that. In
fact, part of our routine is having a 'puppet show' with his small toy
flashlight with the bedroom light off. Then he's got control and he usually
gets to a point and says, 'let's go to sleep' and turns it off. Then I, like
and idiot, get up for my night owl time, sometimes into 2 or 3. I love
nighttime, sometimes I live in denial that I'll have to get up early. :-)
I lived with my sister for a short time and her daughter was 4. She had a
strict routine and bedtime. Which was a fight every single night. Drove me
nuts. With all the fighting and yelling it generally took 2 hours after the
actual 'bedtime' cutoff anyway. I always thought it silly that she didn't
just move the bedtime back, or at least relax a bit.
Brenda
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Julie Stauffer
<<my dh had a quiet house to himself>>
Gosh can I relate. I stay up at night often as well because I enjoy the
quiet. But it seems that things may be getting mired down in side issues.
Dh is really wanting quiet and alone time, seems like bedtime isn't
necessarily the issue. Perhaps a family confab to discuss how to get Daddy
some downtime? Something my kids do from time to time is have a sleepover
with each other. Turns into something of a slumber party but they are up in
their rooms. We are redecorating our garage to give me my "space" (actually
a work out room). Perhaps Dh needs a space where he can read or watch tv or
whatever. His own little quiet nest for the evenings.
Julie
Gosh can I relate. I stay up at night often as well because I enjoy the
quiet. But it seems that things may be getting mired down in side issues.
Dh is really wanting quiet and alone time, seems like bedtime isn't
necessarily the issue. Perhaps a family confab to discuss how to get Daddy
some downtime? Something my kids do from time to time is have a sleepover
with each other. Turns into something of a slumber party but they are up in
their rooms. We are redecorating our garage to give me my "space" (actually
a work out room). Perhaps Dh needs a space where he can read or watch tv or
whatever. His own little quiet nest for the evenings.
Julie
Cindy
Julie Stauffer wrote:
my children are in bed and I also get it on weekends when my DH runs
errands with the kids. Just an hour or two a week is all I need but
if I don't get it, I get crabby.
--
Cindy Ferguson
crma@...
>I can relate too. I need alone time. I get it in the evenings after
> <<my dh had a quiet house to himself>>
>
> Gosh can I relate. I stay up at night often as well because I enjoy the
> quiet.
>
my children are in bed and I also get it on weekends when my DH runs
errands with the kids. Just an hour or two a week is all I need but
if I don't get it, I get crabby.
--
Cindy Ferguson
crma@...
[email protected]
In a message dated 9/6/02 12:16:52 PM Central Daylight Time,
[email protected] writes:
<< I have three kids and the younger ones don't want to go to bed if the
older ones are up. Actually, none of them want to go to bed if I'm
up. I don't like to make my 9 year old go to bed earlier just so the
younger ones will go to bed. >>
Well, in this house I ask the older ones to please have a "quiet" time to
help me get the baby calmed down. I have Sierra and Jared (5 and 9 y.o.) do
their bedtime ritual while he's nursing, so if they decide to stay up they
will be all ready to fall asleep and won't be noisy while we're sleeping.
The quiet time involves making the house feel dark and calm. Lights out,
contraptions off, just long enough for me to get baby calmed down and
nursing.
In this time I have found that most of the time I will have all of them
asleep with the exception of Trevor (12 1/2) who keeps a little bedstand
light on an waits until babsy boy is quiet and in his bed with me.
He then turns the tv on very low and stays up til 2 or 3 am!! Sometimes the
other two join him, sometimes not.
Either way, I just ask for it to be quiet to allow others to sleep.
I usually play musical beds the first two hours of the night.....babsy boy
falls asleep so I go and lay down with Sierra or Jared.
Usually I fall asleep with one of them and move to my bed eventually. Or
babsy boy wakes me up to nurse again and I'm back in with him. I never sleep
in the same place all night.
Crazy eh? But it works for me...and keeps the kids sleeping with their Mommy
since we don't have one big bed for everyone. Dh can't sleep with kids, they
wake him up.
But he also will start with Jared or Sierra some nights.
The quiet time is just my request for helping the house get calm enough for
the littler people here. My boys are understanding of the need and simply
pause the activity long enough to help me out.
Ren
[email protected] writes:
<< I have three kids and the younger ones don't want to go to bed if the
older ones are up. Actually, none of them want to go to bed if I'm
up. I don't like to make my 9 year old go to bed earlier just so the
younger ones will go to bed. >>
Well, in this house I ask the older ones to please have a "quiet" time to
help me get the baby calmed down. I have Sierra and Jared (5 and 9 y.o.) do
their bedtime ritual while he's nursing, so if they decide to stay up they
will be all ready to fall asleep and won't be noisy while we're sleeping.
The quiet time involves making the house feel dark and calm. Lights out,
contraptions off, just long enough for me to get baby calmed down and
nursing.
In this time I have found that most of the time I will have all of them
asleep with the exception of Trevor (12 1/2) who keeps a little bedstand
light on an waits until babsy boy is quiet and in his bed with me.
He then turns the tv on very low and stays up til 2 or 3 am!! Sometimes the
other two join him, sometimes not.
Either way, I just ask for it to be quiet to allow others to sleep.
I usually play musical beds the first two hours of the night.....babsy boy
falls asleep so I go and lay down with Sierra or Jared.
Usually I fall asleep with one of them and move to my bed eventually. Or
babsy boy wakes me up to nurse again and I'm back in with him. I never sleep
in the same place all night.
Crazy eh? But it works for me...and keeps the kids sleeping with their Mommy
since we don't have one big bed for everyone. Dh can't sleep with kids, they
wake him up.
But he also will start with Jared or Sierra some nights.
The quiet time is just my request for helping the house get calm enough for
the littler people here. My boys are understanding of the need and simply
pause the activity long enough to help me out.
Ren
Helen Colbeck
just curious - do you monitor the tv content your 12-year-old is watching at
2 or 3 AM? It just seems to me that there could be a lot of REALLY
inappropriate stuff on at that hour...
H. (who may be controlling and coercive, but would be very uncomfy with my
12-year-old son watching porn...)
From: starsuncloud@...
Reply-To: [email protected]
Date: Fri, 6 Sep 2002 13:55:55 EDT
To: [email protected]
Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] bedtimes
In a message dated 9/6/02 12:16:52 PM Central Daylight Time,
[email protected] writes:
<< I have three kids and the younger ones don't want to go to bed if the
older ones are up. Actually, none of them want to go to bed if I'm
up. I don't like to make my 9 year old go to bed earlier just so the
younger ones will go to bed. >>
Well, in this house I ask the older ones to please have a "quiet" time to
help me get the baby calmed down. I have Sierra and Jared (5 and 9 y.o.) do
their bedtime ritual while he's nursing, so if they decide to stay up they
will be all ready to fall asleep and won't be noisy while we're sleeping.
The quiet time involves making the house feel dark and calm. Lights out,
contraptions off, just long enough for me to get baby calmed down and
nursing.
In this time I have found that most of the time I will have all of them
asleep with the exception of Trevor (12 1/2) who keeps a little bedstand
light on an waits until babsy boy is quiet and in his bed with me.
He then turns the tv on very low and stays up til 2 or 3 am!! Sometimes the
other two join him, sometimes not.
Either way, I just ask for it to be quiet to allow others to sleep.
I usually play musical beds the first two hours of the night.....babsy boy
falls asleep so I go and lay down with Sierra or Jared.
Usually I fall asleep with one of them and move to my bed eventually. Or
babsy boy wakes me up to nurse again and I'm back in with him. I never sleep
in the same place all night.
Crazy eh? But it works for me...and keeps the kids sleeping with their Mommy
since we don't have one big bed for everyone. Dh can't sleep with kids, they
wake him up.
But he also will start with Jared or Sierra some nights.
The quiet time is just my request for helping the house get calm enough for
the littler people here. My boys are understanding of the need and simply
pause the activity long enough to help me out.
Ren
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
2 or 3 AM? It just seems to me that there could be a lot of REALLY
inappropriate stuff on at that hour...
H. (who may be controlling and coercive, but would be very uncomfy with my
12-year-old son watching porn...)
From: starsuncloud@...
Reply-To: [email protected]
Date: Fri, 6 Sep 2002 13:55:55 EDT
To: [email protected]
Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] bedtimes
In a message dated 9/6/02 12:16:52 PM Central Daylight Time,
[email protected] writes:
<< I have three kids and the younger ones don't want to go to bed if the
older ones are up. Actually, none of them want to go to bed if I'm
up. I don't like to make my 9 year old go to bed earlier just so the
younger ones will go to bed. >>
Well, in this house I ask the older ones to please have a "quiet" time to
help me get the baby calmed down. I have Sierra and Jared (5 and 9 y.o.) do
their bedtime ritual while he's nursing, so if they decide to stay up they
will be all ready to fall asleep and won't be noisy while we're sleeping.
The quiet time involves making the house feel dark and calm. Lights out,
contraptions off, just long enough for me to get baby calmed down and
nursing.
In this time I have found that most of the time I will have all of them
asleep with the exception of Trevor (12 1/2) who keeps a little bedstand
light on an waits until babsy boy is quiet and in his bed with me.
He then turns the tv on very low and stays up til 2 or 3 am!! Sometimes the
other two join him, sometimes not.
Either way, I just ask for it to be quiet to allow others to sleep.
I usually play musical beds the first two hours of the night.....babsy boy
falls asleep so I go and lay down with Sierra or Jared.
Usually I fall asleep with one of them and move to my bed eventually. Or
babsy boy wakes me up to nurse again and I'm back in with him. I never sleep
in the same place all night.
Crazy eh? But it works for me...and keeps the kids sleeping with their Mommy
since we don't have one big bed for everyone. Dh can't sleep with kids, they
wake him up.
But he also will start with Jared or Sierra some nights.
The quiet time is just my request for helping the house get calm enough for
the littler people here. My boys are understanding of the need and simply
pause the activity long enough to help me out.
Ren
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT
~~~~ Don't forget! If you change topics, change the subject line! ~~~~
If you have questions, concerns or problems with this list, please email the
moderator, Joyce Fetteroll (fetteroll@...), or the list owner,
Helen Hegener (HEM-Editor@...).
To unsubscribe from this group, click on the following link or address an
email to:
[email protected]
Visit the Unschooling website: http://www.unschooling.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 9/6/02 3:07:44 PM Central Daylight Time,
[email protected] writes:
<< No, I mean when I see that the baby is needing to sleep, I get the whole
bedtime routine started. Her older sister who also needs more sleep than her
brother follows right along and my son does also. He just stays up later.
Once the routine is going, bedtime is never a problem. This just all happens
at different times every night. >>
This is the way we do it too. I don't see it as coercion, just a request to
help me get the littler ones calmed down.
As they get older it changes.
Ren
[email protected] writes:
<< No, I mean when I see that the baby is needing to sleep, I get the whole
bedtime routine started. Her older sister who also needs more sleep than her
brother follows right along and my son does also. He just stays up later.
Once the routine is going, bedtime is never a problem. This just all happens
at different times every night. >>
This is the way we do it too. I don't see it as coercion, just a request to
help me get the littler ones calmed down.
As they get older it changes.
Ren
[email protected]
In a message dated 9/6/02 4:22:19 PM Central Daylight Time,
[email protected] writes:
<< just curious - do you monitor the tv content your 12-year-old is watching
at
2 or 3 AM? It just seems to me that there could be a lot of REALLY
inappropriate stuff on at that hour... >>
No, I do not monitor it. He tells me what he sees, and sometimes I'm in there
watching with him. I know what this guy likes.....Anime, cartoons and the
Simpson type stuff. He watches movies and History channel and Cop shows
sometimes.
If we did get porn (which we don't) I still wouldn't worry. Not because I
don't think he MIGHT one day be curious, he may, but right now it would
seriously bother him to see something like that.
I trust my son. I know that he will only watch what HE is comfortable with
(may have nothing to do with what I am comfortable with) And because we don't
control the content, he has no fascination with any type of show.
We have offered to watch Braveheart with him and he declines. Will rarely
watch anything rated "R". Today he said "I don't watch rated R movies" and I
asked why. He said that there wasn't much in the "R" category he thought he
could handle.
HE feels uncomfortable with too much violence mainly. Very sensitive about
people violence. He said he doesn't mind if there are alien guts being blown
all over the place but human violence bothers him deeply.
So much for the theory that if you let them choose anything, they'll choose
the worst stuff out there eh?
Ren
[email protected] writes:
<< just curious - do you monitor the tv content your 12-year-old is watching
at
2 or 3 AM? It just seems to me that there could be a lot of REALLY
inappropriate stuff on at that hour... >>
No, I do not monitor it. He tells me what he sees, and sometimes I'm in there
watching with him. I know what this guy likes.....Anime, cartoons and the
Simpson type stuff. He watches movies and History channel and Cop shows
sometimes.
If we did get porn (which we don't) I still wouldn't worry. Not because I
don't think he MIGHT one day be curious, he may, but right now it would
seriously bother him to see something like that.
I trust my son. I know that he will only watch what HE is comfortable with
(may have nothing to do with what I am comfortable with) And because we don't
control the content, he has no fascination with any type of show.
We have offered to watch Braveheart with him and he declines. Will rarely
watch anything rated "R". Today he said "I don't watch rated R movies" and I
asked why. He said that there wasn't much in the "R" category he thought he
could handle.
HE feels uncomfortable with too much violence mainly. Very sensitive about
people violence. He said he doesn't mind if there are alien guts being blown
all over the place but human violence bothers him deeply.
So much for the theory that if you let them choose anything, they'll choose
the worst stuff out there eh?
Ren
[email protected]
In a message dated 9/6/02 4:22:19 PM Central Daylight Time,
[email protected] writes:
<< One day I'll meet some unschooling athiest taking-children-
seriously late risers like myself. One day.
she doesn't talk about her beliefs/unbeliefs.
But she's a total unschooler, with really fab kids and she has a hard time
catching up with us if we plan anything before noon! I love LeAanne.
Ren
[email protected] writes:
<< One day I'll meet some unschooling athiest taking-children-
seriously late risers like myself. One day.
>>There's one down here Shyrley!! Actually I don't know for sure she's atheist,
she doesn't talk about her beliefs/unbeliefs.
But she's a total unschooler, with really fab kids and she has a hard time
catching up with us if we plan anything before noon! I love LeAanne.
Ren
kayb85
> If we did get porn (which we don't) I still wouldn't worry. Notbecause I
> don't think he MIGHT one day be curious, he may, but right now itwould
> seriously bother him to see something like that.I don't think the biggest problem would be a matter of trust, but a
matter of stumbling across something that they've never seen before
that could really traumatize them.
Sheila
Shyrley
On 7 Sep 02, at 3:57, kayb85 wrote:
channel hop bits with sex in seem to build up gradually. My kids all
hide behind cushions if anyone even holds hands on TV! I did a
channel hopping exercise earlier. 9 times out of 10 it seems that
any channels are showing commercials. Not once did I find
anything naughty and the one horor film that was on 'Aliens 3' was
at a bit where people were having a discussion. I couldn't find
anything naughty on at all. Even the Oxygen channel which
advertised a show called 'women and sex' had two women sitting
on a couch wittering and giggling.
Wat could possible be on that would 'traumatise' someone? Sex in
movies is all funny camera angles and heavy breathing and isn't
traumatic either. I find the commercials more traumatic than
anything else mainly cos they make me want to bang my head
against a wall.
Shyrley
"You laugh at me because I'm different. I laugh at you because you are all the same."
>Traumatize seems to be a very strong word to use. Even if you
> > If we did get porn (which we don't) I still wouldn't worry. Not
> because I
> > don't think he MIGHT one day be curious, he may, but right now it
> would
> > seriously bother him to see something like that.
>
> I don't think the biggest problem would be a matter of trust, but a
> matter of stumbling across something that they've never seen before
> that could really traumatize them. Sheila
>
>
channel hop bits with sex in seem to build up gradually. My kids all
hide behind cushions if anyone even holds hands on TV! I did a
channel hopping exercise earlier. 9 times out of 10 it seems that
any channels are showing commercials. Not once did I find
anything naughty and the one horor film that was on 'Aliens 3' was
at a bit where people were having a discussion. I couldn't find
anything naughty on at all. Even the Oxygen channel which
advertised a show called 'women and sex' had two women sitting
on a couch wittering and giggling.
Wat could possible be on that would 'traumatise' someone? Sex in
movies is all funny camera angles and heavy breathing and isn't
traumatic either. I find the commercials more traumatic than
anything else mainly cos they make me want to bang my head
against a wall.
Shyrley
"You laugh at me because I'm different. I laugh at you because you are all the same."
[email protected]
In a message dated 9/6/02 9:54:47 PM Central Daylight Time,
starsuncloud@... writes:
hours stems from a circle of things. I am afraid of the dark and when I do
sleep I have nightmares because I was abused as a child so because of not
being able to sleep at night anyway, when I worked, I always worked the night
shift. So now my body (even after almost four years of not working, even part
time.) won't allow me to go to sleep most nights before 2 or 3 and many
nights before 4. I think I have passed this late night, thing on to my kids.
I have also noticed that Moly will go to bed as late as midnight or 1, and
get up most mornings by 6 or 7. Jack will go to bed at most anytime, but gets
up most nights and plays for a few hours and then goes back to sleep. I have
often wondered if I should try and adjust their sleep cycles. Any thoughts on
this?
~Nancy
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
starsuncloud@... writes:
> << One day I'll meet some unschooling athiest taking-children-My inability (? if you want to call it that) to get to bed and rise at decent
> seriously late risers like myself. One day.
> >>
>
> There's one down here Shyrley!! Actually I don't know for sure she's
> atheist,
> she doesn't talk about her beliefs/unbeliefs.
> But she's a total unschooler, with really fab kids and she has a hard time
> catching up with us if we plan anything before noon! I love LeAanne.
>
> Ren
hours stems from a circle of things. I am afraid of the dark and when I do
sleep I have nightmares because I was abused as a child so because of not
being able to sleep at night anyway, when I worked, I always worked the night
shift. So now my body (even after almost four years of not working, even part
time.) won't allow me to go to sleep most nights before 2 or 3 and many
nights before 4. I think I have passed this late night, thing on to my kids.
I have also noticed that Moly will go to bed as late as midnight or 1, and
get up most mornings by 6 or 7. Jack will go to bed at most anytime, but gets
up most nights and plays for a few hours and then goes back to sleep. I have
often wondered if I should try and adjust their sleep cycles. Any thoughts on
this?
~Nancy
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Mary Bianco
>From: Dnowens@...I have always thought and also read where people left to their own accord
>I have
>often wondered if I should try and adjust their sleep cycles. Any thoughts
>on
>this?
>~Nancy
develop their own sleep patterns that suit them best. Now unless someone is
only sleeping a few hours and walking around like a zombie or sleeping all
day, I would say let their bodies, no matter how little, figure it all out.
Unless for some reason it also interferes withe the family in some way.
I know here it works for us to stay up later. My husband works late most
nights and if the kids went to bed by 9:00, wouldn't have any time to spend
with him. We play outside on the swing set and swim in the pool regularly at
9 or 10 at night. He's up early and out and a lot of days comes home in the
afternoon and spends time again here. He also comes home and does field
trips with us. So it all works for us. If he worked nights, I could see
where I might try to alter our schedule to be able to have more together
time.
Okay, I said "I might try!!"
Mary B
_________________________________________________________________
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Mary Bianco
>From: "Shyrley" <shyrley.williams@...>Do you get any cable channels like HBO? I know the Soprano's certainly
>Traumatize seems to be a very strong word to use. Even if you
>channel hop bits with sex in seem to build up gradually.
traumatized me!!!!
Mary B
_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com
helencolbeck
--- In Unschooling-dotcom@y..., "kayb85" <sheran@p...> wrote:
that he would be opportunistic - more that he might, as you say
here, stumble across something he wasn't ready for.
And City TV plays movies in the wee hours that would not be
appropriate for 12-year-olds. Do you get cable? If so, then you
have innappropriate stuff available at that time of night.
H.
>now it
> > If we did get porn (which we don't) I still wouldn't worry. Not
> because I
> > don't think he MIGHT one day be curious, he may, but right
> woulda
> > seriously bother him to see something like that.
>
> I don't think the biggest problem would be a matter of trust, but
> matter of stumbling across something that they've never seenbefore
> that could really traumatize them.This is more what I was thinking of. I wasn't thinking so much
> Sheila
that he would be opportunistic - more that he might, as you say
here, stumble across something he wasn't ready for.
And City TV plays movies in the wee hours that would not be
appropriate for 12-year-olds. Do you get cable? If so, then you
have innappropriate stuff available at that time of night.
H.
[email protected]
In a message dated 9/6/02 11:20:22 PM Central Daylight Time,
[email protected] writes:
<< I don't think the biggest problem would be a matter of trust, but a
matter of stumbling across something that they've never seen before
that could really traumatize them. >>
We're not talking about a small child either....there is a difference.
If a 12 y.o. happens upon something that bothers them, they're going to
change the channel or look away.
A younger child may not have the skills to do that.
He only watches the same channels every night, so it's not much of a concern.
He knows the programming and where to go for what he wants.
He's also sensitive to the fact that his younger sister doesn't need to see
certain things and changes it when she's with him. Adult Swim is great
entertainment to him, it's a bit over her head and I don't think she needs to
hear some of the cussing on it just yet.
He's capable of choosing, he's capable of knowing what he can't handle.
I wonder what some of you think will happen if you give your children choice.
It seems you think they would either choose the worst or stumble across
really bad stuff and not know what to do?
So at what point to you give them more freedom so that they can become wise
about choices?
Ren
[email protected] writes:
<< I don't think the biggest problem would be a matter of trust, but a
matter of stumbling across something that they've never seen before
that could really traumatize them. >>
We're not talking about a small child either....there is a difference.
If a 12 y.o. happens upon something that bothers them, they're going to
change the channel or look away.
A younger child may not have the skills to do that.
He only watches the same channels every night, so it's not much of a concern.
He knows the programming and where to go for what he wants.
He's also sensitive to the fact that his younger sister doesn't need to see
certain things and changes it when she's with him. Adult Swim is great
entertainment to him, it's a bit over her head and I don't think she needs to
hear some of the cussing on it just yet.
He's capable of choosing, he's capable of knowing what he can't handle.
I wonder what some of you think will happen if you give your children choice.
It seems you think they would either choose the worst or stumble across
really bad stuff and not know what to do?
So at what point to you give them more freedom so that they can become wise
about choices?
Ren
Shyrley
On 7 Sep 02, at 7:39, Mary Bianco wrote:
seen on American TV. Actually, thats not entirely true. Some of
the day time stuff is so imbecilic that it has me weeping into my
coffee and the endless commercials reguarly make me want to put
my boot through the TV. Oh, and the news seems to be aimed at
people with the IQ of a plank of wood.
Shyrley
"You laugh at me because I'm different. I laugh at you because you are all the same."
>Yeah, we get HBO. So far I've not needed therapy for anything I've
> >From: "Shyrley" <shyrley.williams@...>
>
> >Traumatize seems to be a very strong word to use. Even if you
> >channel hop bits with sex in seem to build up gradually.
>
> Do you get any cable channels like HBO? I know the Soprano's certainly
> traumatized me!!!!
>
> Mary B
>
seen on American TV. Actually, thats not entirely true. Some of
the day time stuff is so imbecilic that it has me weeping into my
coffee and the endless commercials reguarly make me want to put
my boot through the TV. Oh, and the news seems to be aimed at
people with the IQ of a plank of wood.
Shyrley
"You laugh at me because I'm different. I laugh at you because you are all the same."
[email protected]
In a message dated 9/7/02 8:08:35 AM, the_colbecks@... writes:
<< And City TV plays movies in the wee hours that would not be
appropriate for 12-year-olds. Do you get cable? If so, then you
have innappropriate stuff available at that time of night. >>
My kids don't want stuff they think is gross or scary. My husband doesn't
either. I don't either.
I think the benefits of letting my kids make their own choices outweighs the
dangers. They *could* eat something really nasty and awful. They *could*
tattoo themselves with India Ink. there are lots of dangerous and dumb stuff
they could do, but why would they?
When my boys are up late at night they're playing video games or computer
games, or card games with their friends (there were three extra teenaged boys
here last night).
Families who insist on quiet and control will eventually find their kids
needing to go elsewhere to socialize at night. At my house I know WAY more
what's available for them to do and see than when they're out and about.
Partly it's a luxury of having a big enough house that people can make noise
in one end of the house and others can sleep in the other. But having that
luxury, letting other homeschoolers use this as a hangout ends up being
pretty much a control factor, even in an atmosphere of little apparent
control.
Sandra
<< And City TV plays movies in the wee hours that would not be
appropriate for 12-year-olds. Do you get cable? If so, then you
have innappropriate stuff available at that time of night. >>
My kids don't want stuff they think is gross or scary. My husband doesn't
either. I don't either.
I think the benefits of letting my kids make their own choices outweighs the
dangers. They *could* eat something really nasty and awful. They *could*
tattoo themselves with India Ink. there are lots of dangerous and dumb stuff
they could do, but why would they?
When my boys are up late at night they're playing video games or computer
games, or card games with their friends (there were three extra teenaged boys
here last night).
Families who insist on quiet and control will eventually find their kids
needing to go elsewhere to socialize at night. At my house I know WAY more
what's available for them to do and see than when they're out and about.
Partly it's a luxury of having a big enough house that people can make noise
in one end of the house and others can sleep in the other. But having that
luxury, letting other homeschoolers use this as a hangout ends up being
pretty much a control factor, even in an atmosphere of little apparent
control.
Sandra
[email protected]
In a message dated 9/7/02 11:56:18 AM Central Daylight Time,
[email protected] writes:
<< And City TV plays movies in the wee hours that would not be
appropriate for 12-year-olds. Do you get cable? If so, then you
have innappropriate stuff available at that time of night. >>
Innappropriate to whom? You?
That doesn't affect what my son decides is appropriate or not.
And yes, at 12 y.o. I completely and totally trust him to decide what is
appropriate.
Ren
[email protected] writes:
<< And City TV plays movies in the wee hours that would not be
appropriate for 12-year-olds. Do you get cable? If so, then you
have innappropriate stuff available at that time of night. >>
Innappropriate to whom? You?
That doesn't affect what my son decides is appropriate or not.
And yes, at 12 y.o. I completely and totally trust him to decide what is
appropriate.
Ren
helencolbeck
OK. This is not about your son. This is not about you. This is
not about me. This is not personal.
I think that a boy on the cusp of (or in the throes of) puberty would
find some of the almost-porn movies, ads and infomercials that
are on at 3 am anything but 'grossand scary'. I think many of
them would find such material pretty damned compelling, to be
honest. Now perhaps there are boys out there who have it all
together enough that they would be turned off by the fact that
these images are degrading stereotypes of women. Perhaps,
but what about the other 98% who will be thinking, "Wow.
Naked. Boobs. Wow."
I did not say forbid. I did not say create a 'fobidden fruit'
atmosphere. What I was talking about was monitoring content,
so you know what is being watched, so you can discuss it. It is
deliberately designed, produced and marketed to be as
compelling as possible, by very, very smart and sophisticated
people. I am sure all these unschooled kids are as savvy as
they come, but they are still inexperienced, and vulnerable to this
stuff. However savvy a twelve-year-old may be, he is not as savvy
as the team of marketers that are targeting him. It's a pretty
complex issue, and takes a lot of sorting to figure out.
Now, THIS is directed at you personally, because I am asking for
clarification on your personal position. Are you telling me that
you believe that that kind of imagery (by this I mean the typical
hypersexualized images of women) holds no interest for your
twelve-year-old son? That he regards it as 'nasty and awful'?
What if he doesn't? Or, what if he does? What if he does see it
as nasty and awful and gross and scary, but still finds himself
drawn to it? That is the nature of pornography - it is INTENDED
to be thus. What protection does he have? You're telling me
he's on his own, because you believe if there is a problem, he'll
let you know? The purveyors of pornography in our society are
sophisticated predators. You are happy to let them have as
much access to your son as he deems appropriate, without any
monitoring from you?
I am not saying he IS watching this stuff. I am saying that from
what you are telling me, you can't say with much authority that he
ISN'T, because you aren't really paying enough attention to know.
Lots and lots of women out there are just as sure their
husbands would NEVER.
H.
not about me. This is not personal.
I think that a boy on the cusp of (or in the throes of) puberty would
find some of the almost-porn movies, ads and infomercials that
are on at 3 am anything but 'grossand scary'. I think many of
them would find such material pretty damned compelling, to be
honest. Now perhaps there are boys out there who have it all
together enough that they would be turned off by the fact that
these images are degrading stereotypes of women. Perhaps,
but what about the other 98% who will be thinking, "Wow.
Naked. Boobs. Wow."
I did not say forbid. I did not say create a 'fobidden fruit'
atmosphere. What I was talking about was monitoring content,
so you know what is being watched, so you can discuss it. It is
deliberately designed, produced and marketed to be as
compelling as possible, by very, very smart and sophisticated
people. I am sure all these unschooled kids are as savvy as
they come, but they are still inexperienced, and vulnerable to this
stuff. However savvy a twelve-year-old may be, he is not as savvy
as the team of marketers that are targeting him. It's a pretty
complex issue, and takes a lot of sorting to figure out.
Now, THIS is directed at you personally, because I am asking for
clarification on your personal position. Are you telling me that
you believe that that kind of imagery (by this I mean the typical
hypersexualized images of women) holds no interest for your
twelve-year-old son? That he regards it as 'nasty and awful'?
What if he doesn't? Or, what if he does? What if he does see it
as nasty and awful and gross and scary, but still finds himself
drawn to it? That is the nature of pornography - it is INTENDED
to be thus. What protection does he have? You're telling me
he's on his own, because you believe if there is a problem, he'll
let you know? The purveyors of pornography in our society are
sophisticated predators. You are happy to let them have as
much access to your son as he deems appropriate, without any
monitoring from you?
I am not saying he IS watching this stuff. I am saying that from
what you are telling me, you can't say with much authority that he
ISN'T, because you aren't really paying enough attention to know.
Lots and lots of women out there are just as sure their
husbands would NEVER.
H.
--- In Unschooling-dotcom@y..., SandraDodd@a... wrote:
> My kids don't want stuff they think is gross or scary. My
husband doesn't
> either. I don't either.
>
> I think the benefits of letting my kids make their own choices
outweighs the
> dangers. They *could* eat something really nasty and awful.
They *could*
> tattoo themselves with India Ink. there are lots of dangerous
and dumb stuff
> they could do, but why would they?
>
Mary Bianco
>From: "helencolbeck" <the_colbecks@...>I must say I am very curious about this also. I do watch closely what my
>
>OK. This is not about your son. This is not about you. This is
>not about me. This is not personal.
>
>I think that a boy on the cusp of (or in the throes of) puberty would
>find some of the almost-porn movies, ads and infomercials that
>are on at 3 am anything but 'grossand scary'.
kids watch. Now I'm sure a lot of what they watch, many people have problems
with. I'm also sure what I won't allow, many even here would question as to
why.
One thing I can think of is the Simpson's. It was a few years ago when it
came on TV and never having watched it, the kids wanted to see it as it was
a cartoon. Well after about 10 minutes, I said no way. I didn't like the
attitude and language and just the whole feel of the show for my little
ones.
Now there are a lot of movies that we let are two middle ones see that a lot
of people probably would have a problem with. I generally have a very good
idea of what it will show before they see it. Sometimes I'm off. Like one
movie that my husband and I had seen before and were certain there wasn't
anything we objected to. Well our memories served us wrong on one little
part. Man and woman in bed, so far okay, some kissing and snuggling and then
all of a sudden he dives south and although nothing was really seen, it was
vivid enough to where the kids were wondering what was going on. Now that's
the kind of stuff I avoid with my kids right now. I have more of a problem
with the sex being seen than the language and violence.
Now I'm sure I'm leaving out parts that may be more detailed but I think you
get my point.
My 16year old was raised the same way and now she sees what she wants and
also doesn't really get into the stuff that is too excessive, as far as she
is concerned, which what I've seen is okay with me.
Mary B
_________________________________________________________________
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[email protected]
In a message dated 9/7/02 6:45:37 PM, the_colbecks@... writes:
<< Now, THIS is directed at you personally, because I am asking for
clarification on your personal position. Are you telling me that
you believe that that kind of imagery (by this I mean the typical
hypersexualized images of women) holds no interest for your
twelve-year-old son? >>
My kids are 13 and 16.
They have seen pictures of naked people before. They've seen R rated movies
before.
<< That he regards it as 'nasty and awful'?
What if he doesn't? Or, what if he does? >>
They're not interested in photo porn as far as I can tell.
A couple of years ago Kirby had a copy of Cosmopolitan in his bathroom, and a
printout of some fantasy alien teen stuff. Shape-changers having sex in
fantasy-animal bodies or some such. I didn't make a deal about it. It was
my "tip" for cleaning his bathroom that I got a peek into what he was looking
into.
<<What if he doesn't? Or, what if he does?>>
They spend a LOT of time at home, voluntarily. They have lots of teenaged
friends, mostly gamers (translation: geeks). But not all. Kirby, in
particular is hyper-popular. At the moment they're off at a Lifehouse
concert with a group of teens, all but one homeschoolers. Eleven kids, one
mom (Carol Rice, from the late-reading article), three of them girls. None
of them will end up coupled up or kissing. They'll all end up over here when
the concert's over. Probably five of them will spend the night, but the
girls and two of the boys all live in other towns over the mountains and will
go home. Kirby got a phone call after they left, an invitation to do
something else tonight. Tomorrow he works, and will go and do something or
other with older kids (the anime crowd) after that. I'll know where he is
and there'll be someone with a cellphone. I have all the phone numbers he
has.
Last night he was up online until about 5:00 a.m. He doesn't erase his
internet trail. he was playing AON (an online role playing game) and
chatting with others who were playing that. He was on my computer because
his is being repaired.
<<What if he does see it as nasty and awful and gross and scary, but still
finds himself drawn to it? >>
Then he'll look at it some. He's way too busy a guy to need it for
distraction.
<<What protection does he have?>>
I don't think seeing some pornography will kill, maim or even taint him.
He's living life in the world as a healthy, busy, thoughtful human being.
<<You're telling me he's on his own, because you believe if there is a
problem, he'll
let you know? >>
Yes. If he has a problem he'll let me know. I don't just believe it, I know
it.
We don't have cable TV, and if we did we wouldn't have Playboy channel, or
whatever might be the current nastiest of the batch. But he has single male
friends in their 20's. One is a fundamentalist Christian (the president of
their anime club, which has a rule against pornographic anime). The others
aren't, but they don't smoke or drink. They MIGHT, some of them, have nasty
anime or magazines, but from all reports they spend their time playing video
games, card games or watching the same series of Japanese animated series'
that my adult friends in Denver do, because I've heard them discuss it.
<<The purveyors of pornography in our society are
sophisticated predators. You are happy to let them have as
much access to your son as he deems appropriate, without any
monitoring from you?>>
This question is not applicable to my son's life. But as a straight-up
question, I would have to (if I were on the witness stand, as I seem to be)
say "yes."
And what "yes" means is that I trust him. I know him.
Drug dealers have as much access to him as he deems appropriate.
Hookers have as much access to him as he deems appropriate.
There are many things I haven't said "NO, don't do this" about because they
fall under the area of things he has no interest in doing. Because of the
principles our lives are lived on, the kids aren't needy, and very little
freakish stuff is going to hold any allure.
<<I am not saying he IS watching this stuff. I am saying that from
what you are telling me, you can't say with much authority that he
ISN'T, because you aren't really paying enough attention to know.>>
There's no reason for them to be sneaky, because they have so much freedom of
choice and expression that there would be no trouble to get into.
The reason I know they are NEVER sneaking candy or sodas at night is that
there's no such think as sneaking when the things are allowed. And because
they've always had access, the things are also no big deal.
I think much of the thrill of "nasty pictures" is the idea that mom thinks it
will ruin your life, you have to go to sleep early to be protected from it,
it's something sophisticated predators are lying in wait to lure them into,
etc.
We have neither glorified nor villified things, and so the children's choices
are made in a whole different manner than most people can imagine if the only
people they know were raised in the traditional, controlled and shame-based
way.
<<Lots and lots of women out there are just as sure their
husbands would NEVER. >>
I don't think it's a horrible thing.
(Does anyone have a way to remember the last discussion here about kids,
pornography, erotica, and so forth? I'm thinking maybe someone remembers
because it was around a holiday or a move.)
Sandra
<< Now, THIS is directed at you personally, because I am asking for
clarification on your personal position. Are you telling me that
you believe that that kind of imagery (by this I mean the typical
hypersexualized images of women) holds no interest for your
twelve-year-old son? >>
My kids are 13 and 16.
They have seen pictures of naked people before. They've seen R rated movies
before.
<< That he regards it as 'nasty and awful'?
What if he doesn't? Or, what if he does? >>
They're not interested in photo porn as far as I can tell.
A couple of years ago Kirby had a copy of Cosmopolitan in his bathroom, and a
printout of some fantasy alien teen stuff. Shape-changers having sex in
fantasy-animal bodies or some such. I didn't make a deal about it. It was
my "tip" for cleaning his bathroom that I got a peek into what he was looking
into.
<<What if he doesn't? Or, what if he does?>>
They spend a LOT of time at home, voluntarily. They have lots of teenaged
friends, mostly gamers (translation: geeks). But not all. Kirby, in
particular is hyper-popular. At the moment they're off at a Lifehouse
concert with a group of teens, all but one homeschoolers. Eleven kids, one
mom (Carol Rice, from the late-reading article), three of them girls. None
of them will end up coupled up or kissing. They'll all end up over here when
the concert's over. Probably five of them will spend the night, but the
girls and two of the boys all live in other towns over the mountains and will
go home. Kirby got a phone call after they left, an invitation to do
something else tonight. Tomorrow he works, and will go and do something or
other with older kids (the anime crowd) after that. I'll know where he is
and there'll be someone with a cellphone. I have all the phone numbers he
has.
Last night he was up online until about 5:00 a.m. He doesn't erase his
internet trail. he was playing AON (an online role playing game) and
chatting with others who were playing that. He was on my computer because
his is being repaired.
<<What if he does see it as nasty and awful and gross and scary, but still
finds himself drawn to it? >>
Then he'll look at it some. He's way too busy a guy to need it for
distraction.
<<What protection does he have?>>
I don't think seeing some pornography will kill, maim or even taint him.
He's living life in the world as a healthy, busy, thoughtful human being.
<<You're telling me he's on his own, because you believe if there is a
problem, he'll
let you know? >>
Yes. If he has a problem he'll let me know. I don't just believe it, I know
it.
We don't have cable TV, and if we did we wouldn't have Playboy channel, or
whatever might be the current nastiest of the batch. But he has single male
friends in their 20's. One is a fundamentalist Christian (the president of
their anime club, which has a rule against pornographic anime). The others
aren't, but they don't smoke or drink. They MIGHT, some of them, have nasty
anime or magazines, but from all reports they spend their time playing video
games, card games or watching the same series of Japanese animated series'
that my adult friends in Denver do, because I've heard them discuss it.
<<The purveyors of pornography in our society are
sophisticated predators. You are happy to let them have as
much access to your son as he deems appropriate, without any
monitoring from you?>>
This question is not applicable to my son's life. But as a straight-up
question, I would have to (if I were on the witness stand, as I seem to be)
say "yes."
And what "yes" means is that I trust him. I know him.
Drug dealers have as much access to him as he deems appropriate.
Hookers have as much access to him as he deems appropriate.
There are many things I haven't said "NO, don't do this" about because they
fall under the area of things he has no interest in doing. Because of the
principles our lives are lived on, the kids aren't needy, and very little
freakish stuff is going to hold any allure.
<<I am not saying he IS watching this stuff. I am saying that from
what you are telling me, you can't say with much authority that he
ISN'T, because you aren't really paying enough attention to know.>>
There's no reason for them to be sneaky, because they have so much freedom of
choice and expression that there would be no trouble to get into.
The reason I know they are NEVER sneaking candy or sodas at night is that
there's no such think as sneaking when the things are allowed. And because
they've always had access, the things are also no big deal.
I think much of the thrill of "nasty pictures" is the idea that mom thinks it
will ruin your life, you have to go to sleep early to be protected from it,
it's something sophisticated predators are lying in wait to lure them into,
etc.
We have neither glorified nor villified things, and so the children's choices
are made in a whole different manner than most people can imagine if the only
people they know were raised in the traditional, controlled and shame-based
way.
<<Lots and lots of women out there are just as sure their
husbands would NEVER. >>
I don't think it's a horrible thing.
(Does anyone have a way to remember the last discussion here about kids,
pornography, erotica, and so forth? I'm thinking maybe someone remembers
because it was around a holiday or a move.)
Sandra
helencolbeck
--- In Unschooling-dotcom@y..., SandraDodd@a... wrote:
here nor there.
'Naked people' - honestly! Forget pictures - my five year old has
seen REAL naked people! Nudity is not the issue here, and I
think you know that.
am asking you about.
Just because he won't get in trouble, doesn't mean he wants you
to know. It doesn't mean he'll tell you. I mean, I am sure you
wouldn't get in trouble for having sex, but does he know when
you do it? If he says, "So how come you and Dad went to bed so
early last night?" would you say, "Well, we wanted to have sex.
Oh - now that you mention it, I should change those sheets!"
<<he was playing AON (an online role playing game) and
understand" argument. Do you hear the superiority in your
words here? Holy smokes!
<< I don't think it's a horrible thing.>>
Pornography? You don't think pornography is a horrible thing?
Then you may want to do a little research. Pornography destroys
a LOT of lives, and hurts a LOT of women. It changes the way
men think about women, interferes with their capacity for true
intimacy, and sets up a lot of unreasonable expectations and
impressions of healthy sexuality.
What I read here is denial, naiveté, and a pretty blinkered view of
the impact of mainstream sexual messages on young men.
Sure. He'll be fine. No need for gudance - he can navigate his
way through that minefield all alone.
Whatever.
H.
>writes:
> In a message dated 9/7/02 6:45:37 PM, the_colbecks@s...
>asking for
> << Now, THIS is directed at you personally, because I am
> clarification on your personal position. Are you telling me thatR rated movies
> you believe that that kind of imagery (by this I mean the typical
> hypersexualized images of women) holds no interest for your
> twelve-year-old son? >>
>
> <<My kids are 13 and 16.
> They have seen pictures of naked people before. They've seen
> before.>>Which, of course, doesn't answer my question, and is neither
here nor there.
'Naked people' - honestly! Forget pictures - my five year old has
seen REAL naked people! Nudity is not the issue here, and I
think you know that.
> <<They're not interested in photo porn as far as I can tell.bathroom, and a
>
> A couple of years ago Kirby had a copy of Cosmopolitan in his
> printout of some fantasy alien teen stuff. Shape-changershaving sex in
> fantasy-animal bodies or some such. I didn't make a dealabout it. It was
> my "tip" for cleaning his bathroom that I got a peek into what hewas looking
> into.of teenaged
> They spend a LOT of time at home, voluntarily. They have lots
> friends, mostly gamers (translation: geeks). But not all. Kirby,in
> particular is hyper-popular. At the moment they're off at aLifehouse
> concert with a group of teens, all but one homeschoolers.Eleven kids, one
> mom (Carol Rice, from the late-reading article), three of themgirls. None
> of them will end up coupled up or kissing. They'll all end upover here when
> the concert's over. Probably five of them will spend the night,but the
> girls and two of the boys all live in other towns over themountains and will
> go home. Kirby got a phone call after they left, an invitation todo
> something else tonight. Tomorrow he works, and will go anddo something or
> other with older kids (the anime crowd) after that. I'll knowwhere he is
> and there'll be someone with a cellphone. I have all the phonenumbers he
> has.>>I am sorry, but I fail to see what ANY of that has to do with what I
am asking you about.
><< Last night he was up online until about 5:00 a.m. Hedoesn't erase his
> internet trail.>>Oh, of course not - why would he?
Just because he won't get in trouble, doesn't mean he wants you
to know. It doesn't mean he'll tell you. I mean, I am sure you
wouldn't get in trouble for having sex, but does he know when
you do it? If he says, "So how come you and Dad went to bed so
early last night?" would you say, "Well, we wanted to have sex.
Oh - now that you mention it, I should change those sheets!"
<<he was playing AON (an online role playing game) and
> chatting with others who were playing that. He was on mycomputer because
> his is being repaired.>>taint him.
> He's way too busy a guy to need it for
> distraction.
> I don't think seeing some pornography will kill, maim or even
> He's living life in the world as a healthy, busy, thoughtfulhuman being.
>channel, or
> We don't have cable TV, and if we did we wouldn't have Playboy
> whatever might be the current nastiest of the batch. But he hassingle male
> friends in their 20's. One is a fundamentalist Christian (thepresident of
> their anime club, which has a rule against pornographicanime). The others
> aren't, but they don't smoke or drink. They MIGHT, some ofthem, have nasty
> anime or magazines, but from all reports they spend their timeplaying video
> games, card games or watching the same series of Japaneseanimated series'
> that my adult friends in Denver do, because I've heard themdiscuss it.
>straight-up
> This question is not applicable to my son's life. But as a
> question, I would have to (if I were on the witness stand, as Iseem to be)
> say "yes."appropriate.
>
> And what "yes" means is that I trust him. I know him.
> Drug dealers have as much access to him as he deems
> Hookers have as much access to him as he deemsappropriate.
>because they
> There are many things I haven't said "NO, don't do this" about
> fall under the area of things he has no interest in doing.Because of the
> principles our lives are lived on, the kids aren't needy, and verylittle
> freakish stuff is going to hold any allure.so much freedom of
>
> There's no reason for them to be sneaky, because they have
> choice and expression that there would be no trouble to getinto.
>at night is that
> The reason I know they are NEVER sneaking candy or sodas
> there's no such think as sneaking when the things areallowed. And because
> they've always had access, the things are also no big deal.thinks it
>
> I think much of the thrill of "nasty pictures" is the idea that mom
> will ruin your life, you have to go to sleep early to be protectedfrom it,
> it's something sophisticated predators are lying in wait to lurethem into,
> etc.children's choices
>
> We have neither glorified nor villified things, and so the
> are made in a whole different manner than most people canimagine if the only
> people they know were raised in the traditional, controlled andshame-based
> way.>>Ah, yes. The old "If you were enlightened like ME, you'd
understand" argument. Do you hear the superiority in your
words here? Holy smokes!
<< I don't think it's a horrible thing.>>
Pornography? You don't think pornography is a horrible thing?
Then you may want to do a little research. Pornography destroys
a LOT of lives, and hurts a LOT of women. It changes the way
men think about women, interferes with their capacity for true
intimacy, and sets up a lot of unreasonable expectations and
impressions of healthy sexuality.
What I read here is denial, naiveté, and a pretty blinkered view of
the impact of mainstream sexual messages on young men.
Sure. He'll be fine. No need for gudance - he can navigate his
way through that minefield all alone.
Whatever.
H.