Re: Trying School
Jeff & Diane Gwirtz
> From: "Sandra Brown" <sbrown2@...>My son returned to school last year when he was 12 and in 7th grade.
> How many of you have had children choose to go to school? How long do you
> think would be an appropriate trial period? I don't want her to go for a
> few days and then want to quit because she's tired or something. I think it
> would be important to go for at least 4-6 weeks to really give it a good
> effort, and get over the hump of adjusting to the routine. Any suggestions?
>
We didn't have any of the choices you have (small town), but he
wanted to see what middle school was like, and we respected that.
We had a simple agreement. You can come back home whenever you want,
but once you're home, you stay for the rest of the school year.
Also, while he chose to be at school, he was expected to "play the
game," so to speak - do the work, do his best to learn, etc.
Anyway, he stayed for about 11 weeks until right after Thanksgiving
and has been home every since.
Diane from KS
jagwirtz@...
Sandra Brown
We are entering the next phase of our life adventures. My oldest, Emily, who
will be eight in October, has been insistent that she wants to try school.
After much time spent dicussing what she wanted to do and why, and
discussing a number of alternative options, it seems to me that she has the
idea that school is like an all day play date every day with a lot of kids.
This from a sensitive, artist type girl who likes to spend a lot of time
alone, and when we have a full calendar says to me, "Mom, why do we have to
go somewhere everyday? Why can't someone come over our house?"
But she is adamant about going to school. We are very fortunate to now be
living in Ann Arbor. Where we used to live I wouldn't even dream about
sending her to school. So here we were able to investigate a wide range of
private schools (none of which we could afford), several public charter
schools, (all of which focused on Math, Science, and Technology; you know,
prepare kids for the ecomony type education:^p) and the public Open school.
Most of the families in our church send their children to the Open school,
which is based on the philosophy that each child arrives at school with
their own strengths and potential and it is up to the teacher to facilitate
learning. Also, each student is democratically represented, and time is
spent on cooperation and comunication. There is a much higher (than
traditional schools) number of field trips and guests, and each child is
free to choose to be in any classroom, the media center, the music room, the
art room, or the science lab throughout the day.
So all things considered, I feel very fortunate that we have this option
here. I know if Emily had to go to traditional school, she probably
wouldn't choose to, because she has already told me that she is not the
sitting still do work all day kind of girl. Still, I went through a period
of wondering what I did to fail her in some way. I have realized that
following my principles of respecting the child and trusting that they will
commincate their needs to me, responding to her and trusting her means
having faith in her.
My husband and I both agreed years ago that when the kids were old enough to
choose, that they would have that option. I am still dealing with my own
unschooling ideals that any school, even an open school, is too far removed
from the real world of society and the natural rhthym of nature to be
useful.
How many of you have had children choose to go to school? How long do you
think would be an appropriate trial period? I don't want her to go for a
few days and then want to quit because she's tired or something. I think it
would be important to go for at least 4-6 weeks to really give it a good
effort, and get over the hump of adjusting to the routine. Any suggestions?
Sandra Brown
Ann Arbor, MI
will be eight in October, has been insistent that she wants to try school.
After much time spent dicussing what she wanted to do and why, and
discussing a number of alternative options, it seems to me that she has the
idea that school is like an all day play date every day with a lot of kids.
This from a sensitive, artist type girl who likes to spend a lot of time
alone, and when we have a full calendar says to me, "Mom, why do we have to
go somewhere everyday? Why can't someone come over our house?"
But she is adamant about going to school. We are very fortunate to now be
living in Ann Arbor. Where we used to live I wouldn't even dream about
sending her to school. So here we were able to investigate a wide range of
private schools (none of which we could afford), several public charter
schools, (all of which focused on Math, Science, and Technology; you know,
prepare kids for the ecomony type education:^p) and the public Open school.
Most of the families in our church send their children to the Open school,
which is based on the philosophy that each child arrives at school with
their own strengths and potential and it is up to the teacher to facilitate
learning. Also, each student is democratically represented, and time is
spent on cooperation and comunication. There is a much higher (than
traditional schools) number of field trips and guests, and each child is
free to choose to be in any classroom, the media center, the music room, the
art room, or the science lab throughout the day.
So all things considered, I feel very fortunate that we have this option
here. I know if Emily had to go to traditional school, she probably
wouldn't choose to, because she has already told me that she is not the
sitting still do work all day kind of girl. Still, I went through a period
of wondering what I did to fail her in some way. I have realized that
following my principles of respecting the child and trusting that they will
commincate their needs to me, responding to her and trusting her means
having faith in her.
My husband and I both agreed years ago that when the kids were old enough to
choose, that they would have that option. I am still dealing with my own
unschooling ideals that any school, even an open school, is too far removed
from the real world of society and the natural rhthym of nature to be
useful.
How many of you have had children choose to go to school? How long do you
think would be an appropriate trial period? I don't want her to go for a
few days and then want to quit because she's tired or something. I think it
would be important to go for at least 4-6 weeks to really give it a good
effort, and get over the hump of adjusting to the routine. Any suggestions?
Sandra Brown
Ann Arbor, MI
A.Y.
Somebody on this list had a terrific idea about "trying school", of course I
can't remember what it was, and can't find where I saved it. Anyone remember
what it was? I remember it was her son, and he decided not to go once he saw
what it was really like.
Ann
can't remember what it was, and can't find where I saved it. Anyone remember
what it was? I remember it was her son, and he decided not to go once he saw
what it was really like.
Ann
[email protected]
In a message dated 08/26/1999 8:55:47 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
sbrown2@... writes:
<< Any suggestions?
You know, since you're in Ann Arbor, you might want to look into Clonlara
School...it's based on Holt's teachings. I have my dd registered with them
just to keep everything legal, but they're very open. I've heard that even
at the actual school they don't use textbooks. Just a suggestion. Their
address is 1289 Jewett, Ann Arbor, MI 48104...their phone is (734) 769-4511.
Sam
sbrown2@... writes:
<< Any suggestions?
>>Hi Sandra,
You know, since you're in Ann Arbor, you might want to look into Clonlara
School...it's based on Holt's teachings. I have my dd registered with them
just to keep everything legal, but they're very open. I've heard that even
at the actual school they don't use textbooks. Just a suggestion. Their
address is 1289 Jewett, Ann Arbor, MI 48104...their phone is (734) 769-4511.
Sam
Campbell & Wyman
Hi there,
Our daughter was adamant about trying school at the same age as your
daughter. She is now 10 and there is no looking back ...homeschooling is
her No. 1 choice.
I must admit that it was a stretch to try to be positive about her choice
to try school, but I did it. We (dh and I) decided to let her try a school
for a few days so that if it was a disaster she could leave and save face.
We told her that after a two day trial she could decide whether to stay
home or try school for a semester.
We chose a school that we would have sent her to in the first place (if we
had to) and with her best buddy. We packed a lunch and drove to school. My
heart was in my throat...
For two days she attended the school and didn't say anything much about the
experience but seemed keen to return the second day. I kept breathing...
On the second day as we drove home from school I asked, "So, would like you
like to give school a try??"
Her response was solid. She did not want to return to an institution..she
found the space physically 'hard' and unwelcoming (I found this
particularly interesting ...that she would key in on the hard floor, the
concrete walls, the hard desks, ..)and she found that she spent a lot of
time pretending to be doing work so that the teacher would not give her
another project (the kids taught her this...). She basically told me that
it was a waste of her time and that she loved being able to work when she
felt like it. "I have decided to stay home until grade 12 and then I will
write my exams for college," she said this with total authority. My life
flashed before my eyes...I am here for a few more years :)
In retrospect, I think that if we had fought her on her choice or given our
opinions of school she might have stayed longer but we tried to stay out of
her process. And I think that it must take a lot of courage to ask to go to
school if you know your parents are not too keen on the idea. I had to
honour her courageous (and inquisitive) act. I am glad that she went
because she now knows that she is happiest at home.
Take care,
Brooke in British Columbia
brynlee@...
Our daughter was adamant about trying school at the same age as your
daughter. She is now 10 and there is no looking back ...homeschooling is
her No. 1 choice.
I must admit that it was a stretch to try to be positive about her choice
to try school, but I did it. We (dh and I) decided to let her try a school
for a few days so that if it was a disaster she could leave and save face.
We told her that after a two day trial she could decide whether to stay
home or try school for a semester.
We chose a school that we would have sent her to in the first place (if we
had to) and with her best buddy. We packed a lunch and drove to school. My
heart was in my throat...
For two days she attended the school and didn't say anything much about the
experience but seemed keen to return the second day. I kept breathing...
On the second day as we drove home from school I asked, "So, would like you
like to give school a try??"
Her response was solid. She did not want to return to an institution..she
found the space physically 'hard' and unwelcoming (I found this
particularly interesting ...that she would key in on the hard floor, the
concrete walls, the hard desks, ..)and she found that she spent a lot of
time pretending to be doing work so that the teacher would not give her
another project (the kids taught her this...). She basically told me that
it was a waste of her time and that she loved being able to work when she
felt like it. "I have decided to stay home until grade 12 and then I will
write my exams for college," she said this with total authority. My life
flashed before my eyes...I am here for a few more years :)
In retrospect, I think that if we had fought her on her choice or given our
opinions of school she might have stayed longer but we tried to stay out of
her process. And I think that it must take a lot of courage to ask to go to
school if you know your parents are not too keen on the idea. I had to
honour her courageous (and inquisitive) act. I am glad that she went
because she now knows that she is happiest at home.
Take care,
Brooke in British Columbia
brynlee@...
Sandra Brown
> You know, since you're in Ann Arbor, you might want to look into Clonlarathem
> School...it's based on Holt's teachings. I have my dd registered with
> just to keep everything legal, but they're very open. I've heard thateven
> at the actual school they don't use textbooks. Just a suggestion. Their769-4511.
> address is 1289 Jewett, Ann Arbor, MI 48104...their phone is (734)
>Thank you Sam, Clonlara's tuition is over $6K/year, something we could not
> Sam
afford. They do have single classes for homeschoolers (still a bit steep in
my opinion) which I offered to my daughter, but she refused. She wants to do
the whole day school thing of being there every day with all the other kids.
> Their son made a list of all the questions they had aboutWe spent a lot of time writing lists of what Emily wanted to do and various
> school.....everything they were wondering about.
> Then, they made an appointment with the school principal, and the child
> interviewed the principal, and had all their questions answered......
> that was enough to change their mind. I think it was a fantastic way
> for the decision to be made.
ways of accomplishing this. We made lists of what she wanted to learn, what
she wanted to do, what she thought she might get out of school, why she
wanted to go. We wrote down all of our options for school, and what it might
be like. We called all of the local schools and asked questions. We
visited the schools before we made our choice. Emily was enamored of the
Open School, and looking forward to being there with a lot of the kids from
church. Now my 5 year old twins want to go to school, but there are 45 kids
on a waiting list, so they'll have to wait whether they like it or not! I
want to wait a while and see how Emily fares before I go putting her sisters
on a waiting list at their young age.
Thank you so much those of you who wrote with suggestions. I like the two
day idea, too, but am thinking it is really hard to really get an idea of
what the school is like in the first two days, especially a free place like
the Open School. I think it takes the first week to get over being tired
and unsure of what's going to happen next. I think I will sit down with
Emily and ask her what she thinks, if she wants to talk about it after a
week, or after the first month.
I am beginning to get over my own concerns (which I have kept to myself
really well) and trusting more.
Sandra Brown
Ann Arbor, MI
[email protected]
wow sandra, sounds like a neat school and that you have thought it thru quite
well! i am with you on the 4-6wk thing, bc it seems an adjustment period
should be expected and would taint a real assessment right off the bat. good
luck! erin
well! i am with you on the 4-6wk thing, bc it seems an adjustment period
should be expected and would taint a real assessment right off the bat. good
luck! erin
Joel Hawthorne
Why not let her go a few days and discover she doesn't like it? Is it costing
money? Are you afraid she will never "stick to" anything? Are you afraid she
will regret having quit and always think it was better than it was? Talk to her
about it if she decides to quit. I think quitting after the first hour should
be an option. Sometimes I know enough in a short time to quit something or
leave some place that is obnoxious for me.
Sandra Brown wrote:
best wishes
Joel
All children behave as well as they are treated. The Natural Child
Project http://naturalchild.com/home/
Work together to reinvent justice using methods that are fair; which conserve,
restore and even create harmony, equity and good will in society i.e.
restorative justice.
We are the prisoners of the prisoners we have taken - J. Clegg
http://www.cerj.org
money? Are you afraid she will never "stick to" anything? Are you afraid she
will regret having quit and always think it was better than it was? Talk to her
about it if she decides to quit. I think quitting after the first hour should
be an option. Sometimes I know enough in a short time to quit something or
leave some place that is obnoxious for me.
Sandra Brown wrote:
> From: "Sandra Brown" <sbrown2@...>--
>
> We are entering the next phase of our life adventures. My oldest, Emily, who
> will be eight in October, has been insistent that she wants to try school.
> After much time spent dicussing what she wanted to do and why, and
> discussing a number of alternative options, it seems to me that she has the
> idea that school is like an all day play date every day with a lot of kids.
> This from a sensitive, artist type girl who likes to spend a lot of time
> alone, and when we have a full calendar says to me, "Mom, why do we have to
> go somewhere everyday? Why can't someone come over our house?"
>
> But she is adamant about going to school. We are very fortunate to now be
> living in Ann Arbor. Where we used to live I wouldn't even dream about
> sending her to school. So here we were able to investigate a wide range of
> private schools (none of which we could afford), several public charter
> schools, (all of which focused on Math, Science, and Technology; you know,
> prepare kids for the ecomony type education:^p) and the public Open school.
>
> Most of the families in our church send their children to the Open school,
> which is based on the philosophy that each child arrives at school with
> their own strengths and potential and it is up to the teacher to facilitate
> learning. Also, each student is democratically represented, and time is
> spent on cooperation and comunication. There is a much higher (than
> traditional schools) number of field trips and guests, and each child is
> free to choose to be in any classroom, the media center, the music room, the
> art room, or the science lab throughout the day.
>
> So all things considered, I feel very fortunate that we have this option
> here. I know if Emily had to go to traditional school, she probably
> wouldn't choose to, because she has already told me that she is not the
> sitting still do work all day kind of girl. Still, I went through a period
> of wondering what I did to fail her in some way. I have realized that
> following my principles of respecting the child and trusting that they will
> commincate their needs to me, responding to her and trusting her means
> having faith in her.
>
> My husband and I both agreed years ago that when the kids were old enough to
> choose, that they would have that option. I am still dealing with my own
> unschooling ideals that any school, even an open school, is too far removed
> from the real world of society and the natural rhthym of nature to be
> useful.
>
> How many of you have had children choose to go to school? How long do you
> think would be an appropriate trial period? I don't want her to go for a
> few days and then want to quit because she's tired or something. I think it
> would be important to go for at least 4-6 weeks to really give it a good
> effort, and get over the hump of adjusting to the routine. Any suggestions?
>
> Sandra Brown
> Ann Arbor, MI
>
> --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ----------------------------
>
> ONElist: home to the world's liveliest email communities.
>
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> Check it out!
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best wishes
Joel
All children behave as well as they are treated. The Natural Child
Project http://naturalchild.com/home/
Work together to reinvent justice using methods that are fair; which conserve,
restore and even create harmony, equity and good will in society i.e.
restorative justice.
We are the prisoners of the prisoners we have taken - J. Clegg
http://www.cerj.org
Sandra Brown
Well, today is Emily's third day of school and so far she loves the Open
School. She has made a lot of friends, and really likes her teacher.
Interesting coincidence, the principle of her school homeschooled her three
grown children through Clonlara, so she likes Emily right away.
The school is really interesting so far, they have morning Meetings and
afternoon Choice where they can do just about anything. Emily's teacher was
really impressed with her, and told me a neat little story when I picked her
up yesterday.
On the first day everyone did introductions and Emily was the only child
there who had homeschooled. One of the boys piped up and said, "That's
where your Mom and Dad teach you the lessons." and Emily replied, "my Mom
and Dad don't teach me, I teach myself." What a girl!
My only concern with her is that after the novelty wears off that she might
grow bored, but we'll cross that bridge when we come to it. Of course now
her two little sisters want to go school. This is such a huge shift; we
have been a homeschooling family for *years*, and I have been a
homeschooling advocate/activist. All of the reasons that we talk about
homeschooling are true; the school routine does take over your whole family.
Evenings used to be full of projects and spontaneous trips; now we have to
get everybody cleaned up and in bed for early rising. Just having to get up
one hour earlier is taking some adjustment.
We'll see how things play out. I keep reminding myself that she may do
really well in an open school, and also that it isn't necessarily permanent.
She may choose to come home next week, next month, or even next year. She
knows it's an option, something I didn't have when I hated school.
All that said, it's still a school, and they are held to following the
state's requirements. No matter how good the teacher, I have trouble
believing that any real learning can occur when material has to be packaged
and presented to a group of children. I fail to see how there can be any
real exploration and in depth personal learning and growth in the school
model. It all seems so superfical; there are collages in shoe boxes and
paper mache models, but no garden! It feels very cold and hard, inorganic.
So removed from real life.
Enough of that; one of the things the parents there like about the Open
School is that parents are welcomed and encouraged to participate at all
times. They even plan Open Fridays when parents are encouraged to come in
and lead an activity of their interest and skills. I can see that if Emily
lasts, I will be starting a garden committee...
Sandra Brown
Ann Arbor, MI
School. She has made a lot of friends, and really likes her teacher.
Interesting coincidence, the principle of her school homeschooled her three
grown children through Clonlara, so she likes Emily right away.
The school is really interesting so far, they have morning Meetings and
afternoon Choice where they can do just about anything. Emily's teacher was
really impressed with her, and told me a neat little story when I picked her
up yesterday.
On the first day everyone did introductions and Emily was the only child
there who had homeschooled. One of the boys piped up and said, "That's
where your Mom and Dad teach you the lessons." and Emily replied, "my Mom
and Dad don't teach me, I teach myself." What a girl!
My only concern with her is that after the novelty wears off that she might
grow bored, but we'll cross that bridge when we come to it. Of course now
her two little sisters want to go school. This is such a huge shift; we
have been a homeschooling family for *years*, and I have been a
homeschooling advocate/activist. All of the reasons that we talk about
homeschooling are true; the school routine does take over your whole family.
Evenings used to be full of projects and spontaneous trips; now we have to
get everybody cleaned up and in bed for early rising. Just having to get up
one hour earlier is taking some adjustment.
We'll see how things play out. I keep reminding myself that she may do
really well in an open school, and also that it isn't necessarily permanent.
She may choose to come home next week, next month, or even next year. She
knows it's an option, something I didn't have when I hated school.
All that said, it's still a school, and they are held to following the
state's requirements. No matter how good the teacher, I have trouble
believing that any real learning can occur when material has to be packaged
and presented to a group of children. I fail to see how there can be any
real exploration and in depth personal learning and growth in the school
model. It all seems so superfical; there are collages in shoe boxes and
paper mache models, but no garden! It feels very cold and hard, inorganic.
So removed from real life.
Enough of that; one of the things the parents there like about the Open
School is that parents are welcomed and encouraged to participate at all
times. They even plan Open Fridays when parents are encouraged to come in
and lead an activity of their interest and skills. I can see that if Emily
lasts, I will be starting a garden committee...
Sandra Brown
Ann Arbor, MI
[email protected]
Wow, Sandra, I think the greatest lesson of all during this experience will
be how much you value your daughter's feelings. I can't think of anything
more important for a kid to know! Lori in TX
be how much you value your daughter's feelings. I can't think of anything
more important for a kid to know! Lori in TX
Sandra Brown
<snip>Wow, Sandra, I think the greatest lesson of all during this experience
will
be how much you value your daughter's feelings. I can't think of anything
more important for a kid to know! Lori in TX
Thank you , Lori. You are so right. Last night the bugs started crawling
out, Emily started telling me about how mean most of the boys are with
teasing and being rowdy in class. The teacher is constantly telling them to
to be quiet or sit down. I don't know if this is a problem with the kids,
or the teacher. My gut feeling when I walked into her classroom ten minutes
early yesterday was that these kids were trouble!! I told her that is
always a problem in school, and it makes it harder for her to to hear the
teacher or get attention. For the first time all week I contrasted school
with homeschooling, but she was firm. She said she doesn't want to
homeschool because it's boring.
Sandra Brown
Ann Arbor, MI
will
be how much you value your daughter's feelings. I can't think of anything
more important for a kid to know! Lori in TX
Thank you , Lori. You are so right. Last night the bugs started crawling
out, Emily started telling me about how mean most of the boys are with
teasing and being rowdy in class. The teacher is constantly telling them to
to be quiet or sit down. I don't know if this is a problem with the kids,
or the teacher. My gut feeling when I walked into her classroom ten minutes
early yesterday was that these kids were trouble!! I told her that is
always a problem in school, and it makes it harder for her to to hear the
teacher or get attention. For the first time all week I contrasted school
with homeschooling, but she was firm. She said she doesn't want to
homeschool because it's boring.
Sandra Brown
Ann Arbor, MI