Tamara Rousso

Hi,

I am new to this list and subscribed because I am
interested in the opinions of other unschooling moms
and how your children have learned writing skills. We
unschool in the sense of trusting that our children
will know when they are ready to take on tasks and
following their lead for what they want to learn and
how they want to learn it. My daughter is nine this
month and took off on reading about 6 months ago. She
spends a fair amount of time reading both fiction and
non-fiction, but also still loves to spend time with
her various critters and engage in make-believe play
with her sibling and other children. She loves to
draw, but she HATESs to write. If she wants to leave
herself a note, for example, to bring her tortoise in
for the night instead of writing out the words she
will draw a picture of the tortoise grazing and post
that where it reminds her. I have been fine with this
approach and have trusted that when she is at a point
in her life where she wants to truly express her
feelings she will feel compelled to write. I have
kind of expected this will happen in adolescence.
Recently an event happened that is causing me to
question my judgement. Has anyone else out there left
it up to divine providence that their children will
indeed want to, and then proceed to, learn to write
when they are ready? Has anyone any regrets about
not being more proactive with their child in teaching
writing? Thanks in advance for any input.

Tammy

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kate mcdaniel

Tammy,
I am definetly not an expert in this area - but here is my 2 cents.
My oldest wrote at an early age - part of that was from attending ps for 2
years. However her penmanship is horrible. My 2nd child - my son, I waited
till he was about 7 to attempt writing. We did the "Teach Your Child to
Read in 100 Easy Lessons" - it worked for him. His penmanship is nice and
neat. We also used the "A Reason for Writing" lessons.
My 3rd child is a lefty - I tried "Teach Your Child" method with her, we
both would end up frustrated. I decided to allow her to do as she wanted -
no lines, no forced writing. She is not writing fluently, well she can't
even write her name - but she is interested in learning because it is what
she wants to do, not what I am forcing her to do. I will write something on
a piece of paper and she will copy it on another piece.
You might try asking your daughter if she would like to put some of her
"make-believe" stories in a book, and let her illustrate it also. Kate
On Thu, 21 Jun 2001 21:14:26 -0700 (PDT), [email protected]
wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I am new to this list and subscribed because I am
> interested in the opinions of other unschooling moms
> and how your children have learned writing skills. We
> unschool in the sense of trusting that our children
> will know when they are ready to take on tasks and
> following their lead for what they want to learn and
> how they want to learn it. My daughter is nine this
> month and took off on reading about 6 months ago. She
> spends a fair amount of time reading both fiction and
> non-fiction, but also still loves to spend time with
> her various critters and engage in make-believe play
> with her sibling and other children. She loves to
> draw, but she HATESs to write. If she wants to leave
> herself a note, for example, to bring her tortoise in
> for the night instead of writing out the words she
> will draw a picture of the tortoise grazing and post
> that where it reminds her. I have been fine with this
> approach and have trusted that when she is at a point
> in her life where she wants to truly express her
> feelings she will feel compelled to write. I have
> kind of expected this will happen in adolescence.
> Recently an event happened that is causing me to
> question my judgement. Has anyone else out there left
> it up to divine providence that their children will
> indeed want to, and then proceed to, learn to write
> when they are ready? Has anyone any regrets about
> not being more proactive with their child in teaching
> writing? Thanks in advance for any input.
>
> Tammy
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail
> http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/





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Tami Labig-Duquette

Hi Tammy,
Elly (7yo), Has numeruos pen pals, which has really helped her, right now I
do the formal writing but she does the rough draft. She will read for me,
but no one else, ( my mom and family has tried to convince her she should
already know how to read and shame on her mommy ;),
so she trusts me, her daddy too at times but no one else. Right now her
writing skills are pretty basic, her spacing, capitilization (sp), etc are
very rough. I dont mind, she knows more on other things than kids twice her
age so....... Things like this used to worry me, but now, that I have seen
her learning life's skills all by herself and with some inquistive
questions, I am prretty much comfy with the fact that she will learn what
she needs to, when she needs to!
Indiana Tami-no sleep for over 24 hrs. so very rambling :)

>From: Tamara Rousso <tammy@...>
>Reply-To: [email protected]
>To: [email protected]
>Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] writing and unschoolin
>Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 21:14:26 -0700 (PDT)
>
>Hi,
>
>I am new to this list and subscribed because I am
>interested in the opinions of other unschooling moms
>and how your children have learned writing skills. We
>unschool in the sense of trusting that our children
>will know when they are ready to take on tasks and
>following their lead for what they want to learn and
>how they want to learn it. My daughter is nine this
>month and took off on reading about 6 months ago. She
>spends a fair amount of time reading both fiction and
>non-fiction, but also still loves to spend time with
>her various critters and engage in make-believe play
>with her sibling and other children. She loves to
>draw, but she HATESs to write. If she wants to leave
>herself a note, for example, to bring her tortoise in
>for the night instead of writing out the words she
>will draw a picture of the tortoise grazing and post
>that where it reminds her. I have been fine with this
>approach and have trusted that when she is at a point
>in her life where she wants to truly express her
>feelings she will feel compelled to write. I have
>kind of expected this will happen in adolescence.
>Recently an event happened that is causing me to
>question my judgement. Has anyone else out there left
>it up to divine providence that their children will
>indeed want to, and then proceed to, learn to write
>when they are ready? Has anyone any regrets about
>not being more proactive with their child in teaching
>writing? Thanks in advance for any input.
>
>Tammy
>
>__________________________________________________
>Do You Yahoo!?
>Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail
>http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/

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April

I have a daughter who wasn't really writing at 9. At that time we were still
doing 'school at home' and I tried to 'make' her write. It didn't do much
good.(there's my regret, trying to force her to write) I finally left it
alone. Now, at almost 15 she writes a lot. Sometimes out of need, sometimes
for pleasure. She would rather type than write but she'll do either. Her
penmanship isn't great, but neither is mine or her Dad's so I'm not worried
about it. My 12 yr old wrote much earlier, and much prettier. My 10 yr old
who is just now reading can write beautifully, knows the basic rules (spaces
between words, periods, cap. letters) but only writes thank you notes and to
label his intricate drawings of inventions and such, nothing else. His time
will come. As long as they have the tools, when the need or desire to write
comes, they will put it all together amazingly fast and be just fine.
April
-----Original Message-----
From: Tamara Rousso [mailto:tammy@...]
Sent: Friday, June 22, 2001 12:14 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] writing and unschoolin


Hi,

I am new to this list and subscribed because I am
interested in the opinions of other unschooling moms
and how your children have learned writing skills. We
unschool in the sense of trusting that our children
will know when they are ready to take on tasks and
following their lead for what they want to learn and
how they want to learn it. My daughter is nine this
month and took off on reading about 6 months ago. She
spends a fair amount of time reading both fiction and
non-fiction, but also still loves to spend time with
her various critters and engage in make-believe play
with her sibling and other children. She loves to
draw, but she HATESs to write. If she wants to leave
herself a note, for example, to bring her tortoise in
for the night instead of writing out the words she
will draw a picture of the tortoise grazing and post
that where it reminds her. I have been fine with this
approach and have trusted that when she is at a point
in her life where she wants to truly express her
feelings she will feel compelled to write. I have
kind of expected this will happen in adolescence.
Recently an event happened that is causing me to
question my judgement. Has anyone else out there left
it up to divine providence that their children will
indeed want to, and then proceed to, learn to write
when they are ready? Has anyone any regrets about
not being more proactive with their child in teaching
writing? Thanks in advance for any input.

Tammy

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 06/22/2001 4:19:14 AM !!!First Boot!!!, tammy@...
writes:


> Has anyone else out there left
> it up to divine providence that their children will
> indeed want to, and then proceed to, learn to write
> when they are ready?

Well, something like that. :) I leave my son alone about it.

Has anyone any regrets about

> not being more proactive with their child in teaching
> writing? Thanks in advance for any input.
>
> Tammy
>
>

Not yet! But he's only 8. I'll add that to my list of things to worry about
when he is older.

Seriously, I think pressuring him to use a skill that is obviously painful
for him would do more harm than good.

Nance



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

A

Tami, you aren't rambling...made perfect sense... :)
But, go to sleep! ;)
A

[email protected]

In a message dated 6/21/01 10:19:13 PM, tammy@... writes:

<< Has anyone else out there left
it up to divine providence that their children will
indeed want to, and then proceed to, learn to write
when they are ready? Has anyone any regrets about
not being more proactive with their child in teaching
writing? Thanks in advance for any input. >>

My kids all write, very different things, and none of the things look like
book reports or essays.

Holly doesn't read, but has been writing for years. She makes little books.
Someone else writes what she dictates and then she copies and illustrates it,
and reads it back (over and over and over).

Marty (12) designs games. He writes the rules down in an interesting
narrative way, not traditional rules style. He wants me to put his rules on
webpages when he's worked out the bugs of his newest RPG. He didn't know the
term, but he wants me to edit it into a neutral voice.

Kirby (14) writes in character in RPG games, real-time fast, in chatrooms and
instant messages. He's doing a pretty good pseudo-medieval formal voice.
I've seen a couple of reports he's written--short, actually-necessary things.
One summary to work about what they had in stock for Pokemon league and what
was needed, and another report on the status of the players in his area of
responsibility in the RPG. They were real writing, for a real purpose, and a
specific recipient. There are adults who "got A's" in writing who have never
written one thing that wasn't just practice.

School might not count any or much of that, but I taught composition and I
taught "language arts," and I'm not one bit worried. I talk to these kids
all the time, and they have language, ideas, and organizational skills. I
have dealt with lots of kids who had the ability to construct a complete
sentence, write legibly and punctuate, but they had no word-art, no ideas,
and no organization.

My kids are ahead of the game (if there is one).


Sandra

[email protected]

In a message dated 6/22/01 1:28:40 PM, abmorris@... writes:

<< As long as they have the tools, when the need or desire to write
comes, they will put it all together amazingly fast and be just fine.
April >>

And if they don't have the tools but they have learned to read on their own,
and learned about geography on their own, etc., they'll have no problem with
and no fear of learning to write, because now they want to.

It's not rocket science, writing.
They can learn rocket science on their own too. <g>
I recommend the Space Cube rocketry museum in Alamogordo, New Mexico for part
of that!

Sandra

Barb Eaton

Tammy,
I hope you get some good responces to this one. I have a 11yob that
rarly writes more than his name. He doesn't make the time and I just won't
assign lesson. <yuck!> I've been talking more about next year using "100
Lessons" and "Writing Road" with my then 7yob who doesn't give a flip about
even the alphabet and dh keeps asking him when he's going to learn to read.
Ds7 reply " When Mommy teaches me" So...our plan. If it doesn't work out I
know in my heart we'll drop it again. I feel sometimes I don't
push/pull/guide/etc enough. Most of the time I can handle these
insecurities, other times well...I read alot here and it he*lps.

Barb E Who wish _sometimes_ there was a magic formula and other times really
enjoys this journey we're on. :-)


> Message: 12
> Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 22:40:05 -0700 (PDT)
> From: kate mcdaniel <K8MCD@...>
> Subject: Re: writing and unschoolin

>> Hi,
>>
>> I am new to this list and subscribed because I am
>> interested in the opinions of other unschooling moms
>> and how your children have learned writing skills.
>> Tammy

A

Oh Barb....I know the feeling, and really enjoyed your email.
There are times I feel so confident, and other times I'm not so sure....
We have just had two weekends of company...public schooled kids...and that
always helps me see that my kids are really, really, really nice kids.
It isn't so much the schooling though, as the parenting...or lack of....
In fact 3 of the kids are private schooled...if that makes any difference...it
doesn't to me.
It is definitely something to do with the parenting....
It has really been on my mind since our company has departed.
I guess what I'm trying to say is....
What do you truly think of your son? That is what is important.... Not what
his so called "educational" level is.... Or what he should know or be able to
do at his age....
Does this make sense without being hurtful?
Ann :)


Barb Eaton wrote:

> Tammy,
> I hope you get some good responces to this one. I have a 11yob that
> rarly writes more than his name. He doesn't make the time and I just won't
> assign lesson. <yuck!> I've been talking more about next year using "100
> Lessons" and "Writing Road" with my then 7yob who doesn't give a flip about
> even the alphabet and dh keeps asking him when he's going to learn to read.
> Ds7 reply " When Mommy teaches me" So...our plan. If it doesn't work out I
> know in my heart we'll drop it again. I feel sometimes I don't
> push/pull/guide/etc enough. Most of the time I can handle these
> insecurities, other times well...I read alot here and it he*lps.
>
> Barb E Who wish _sometimes_ there was a magic formula and other times really
> enjoys this journey we're on. :-)
>
> > Message: 12
> > Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 22:40:05 -0700 (PDT)
> > From: kate mcdaniel <K8MCD@...>
> > Subject: Re: writing and unschoolin
>
> >> Hi,
> >>
> >> I am new to this list and subscribed because I am
> >> interested in the opinions of other unschooling moms
> >> and how your children have learned writing skills.
> >> Tammy
>
> Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
> Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com
>
> To unsubscribe, set preferences, or read archives:
> http://www.egroups.com/group/Unschooling-dotcom
>
> Another great list sponsored by Home Education Magazine!
> http://www.home-ed-magazine.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Tamara Rousso

"What do you truly think of your son? That is what is
important.... Not what
his so called "educational" level is.... Or what he
should know or be able to
do at his age....
Does this make sense without being hurtful?"

This is a good point and one I struggle with at times.
I want her to feel good about who she is and I don't
want to create negative paradigms for her around that.
But at the same time I know before she learned to
read she compared herself to her ps friends and would
often say "I'm stupid" or other negative things about
herself. Now that she has learned to read she often
remarks about how smart she is. Now the paradox - I
didn't teach her to read other than giving her some
very basic phonics skills. She taught herself by
asking what words were or asking me to show her a word
that I had just read to her and practicing all on her
own unbeknowst to me. Maybe that is my answer - to
write with her. Some people on this list have
suggested having her dictate while I do the actual
writing. Does that lead to independent writing the
way reading to a child leads to an interest in reading
independently? I think the light bulb is coming on...
:)

Many thanks to everyone,
Tammy

--- A <mumsienc@...> wrote:

<HR>
<html><body>
<tt>
Oh Barb....I know the feeling, and really enjoyed your
email.<BR>
There are times I feel so confident, and other times
I'm not so sure....<BR>
We have just had two weekends of company...public
schooled kids...and that<BR>
always helps me see that my kids are really, really,
really nice kids.<BR>
It isn't so much the schooling though, as the
parenting...or lack of....<BR>
In fact 3 of the kids are private schooled...if that
makes any difference...it<BR>
doesn't to me.<BR>
It is definitely something to do with the
parenting....<BR>
It has really been on my mind since our company has
departed.<BR>
I guess what I'm trying to say is....<BR>
What do you truly think of your son?  That is
what is important....  Not what<BR>
his so called "educational" level
is....  Or what he should know or be able to<BR>
do at his age....<BR>
Does this make sense without being hurtful?<BR>
Ann  :)<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Barb Eaton wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Tammy,<BR>
>     I hope you get some good
responces to this one. I have a 11yob that<BR>
> rarly writes more than his name. He doesn't make
the time and I just won't<BR>
> assign lesson. <yuck!> I've been talking
more about next year using "100<BR>
> Lessons" and "Writing Road" with
my then 7yob who doesn't give a flip about<BR>
> even the alphabet and dh keeps asking him when
he's going to learn to read.<BR>
> Ds7 reply " When Mommy teaches me"
So...our plan. If it doesn't work out I<BR>
> know in my heart we'll drop it again. I feel
sometimes I don't<BR>
> push/pull/guide/etc enough. Most of the time I
can handle these<BR>
> insecurities, other times well...I read alot here
and it he*lps.<BR>
><BR>
> Barb E Who wish _sometimes_ there was a magic
formula and other times really<BR>
> enjoys this journey we're on. :-)<BR>
><BR>
> > Message: 12<BR>
> > Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 22:40:05 -0700
(PDT)<BR>
> > From: kate mcdaniel
<K8MCD@...><BR>
> > Subject: Re: writing and unschoolin<BR>
><BR>
> >> Hi,<BR>
> >><BR>
> >> I am new to this list and subscribed
because I am<BR>
> >> interested in the opinions of other
unschooling moms<BR>
> >> and how your children have learned
writing skills.<BR>
> >> Tammy<BR>
><BR>
> Message boards, timely articles, a free
newsletter and more!<BR>
> Check it all out at: <a
href="http://www.unschooling.com">http://www.unschooling.com</a><BR>
><BR>
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href="http://www.egroups.com/group/Unschooling-dotcom">http://www.egroups.com/group/Unschooling-dotcom</a><BR>
><BR>
> Another great list sponsored by Home Education
Magazine!<BR>
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Barb Eaton

Ann,
I couldn't thank you enough. Ds11 is the sweetest kid. Away with his red
hair being noticed and his he*lpful attitude. I'm very proud of him. I'm
hoping that the talking/encouraging him to write more does the trick.
Right now he in considering the sugestion in our activity schedule for
next years "school year". He really enjoys our community here. He's almost
old enough to participate in the volunteer community as well.
I just don't want him to be embarrassed unwittingly.:-(
Thank you to whoever said to write down an ongoing story. That sound
like a great way to approach it all this fall. Now how in the world do I get
all these great ideas/sports/classes/homelife/etc to work out without losing
it. ;-)
Now if I could just figure out my soon to be 16yo son. Chillin' in that
arena gets more difficult as time goes by. I'm so afraid of letting him
down. Dropping the ball if you will. :-( Whole other story. I have three.
LOL! Or should that be 4 w/dh. (EG)

Barb E


on 6/23/01 5:04 AM, [email protected] at
[email protected] wrote:

> What do you truly think of your son? That is what is important.... Not what
> his so called "educational" level is.... Or what he should know or be able to
> do at his age....
> Does this make sense without being hurtful?
> Ann :)

[email protected]

In a message dated 6/23/01 11:34:31 AM, tammy@... writes:

<< Some people on this list have
suggested having her dictate while I do the actual
writing. Does that lead to independent writing the
way reading to a child leads to an interest in reading
independently? >>

The ideas are the writing.

When kids play make-believe stuff they're practicing future-writing skills.
When a child tells you about a movie he saw, or tells you what happened at
grandma's, that narration is a necessary skill for writing too. ANY language
use leads to more ease at language use.

Sandra