Re: Structure (was: to choose or...)
Pam Hartley
----------
person. I keep lists. I organize underwear by color. I alphabetize the
spices and keep Rubbermaid in business. I have always been this way.
However, I don't like to be organized by someone else (i.e, told what to do
<g>).
With children in school (or school-at-home environments) I think they
sometimes/often/usually get to the stage where they are DEPENDENT upon
others organizing them. Consider the "I'm bored!!!" refrain from schooled
children in the summer. No one to tell them what to do, ergo they don't KNOW
what to do, and don't know how to find out.
I think knowing how to un-bore yourself is one of the most supremely
valuable life skills unschoolers can offer their children. This is also
called "motivation".
Pam
>From: [email protected]I think it can be either. I am, by nature, a very organized and structured
>To: [email protected]
>Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] Digest Number 1288
>Date: Mon, Jun 4, 2001, 1:37 AM
>
> I was questioning the origins of the need for structure. It is nature or
> nurture - learned or just a personality type.
person. I keep lists. I organize underwear by color. I alphabetize the
spices and keep Rubbermaid in business. I have always been this way.
However, I don't like to be organized by someone else (i.e, told what to do
<g>).
With children in school (or school-at-home environments) I think they
sometimes/often/usually get to the stage where they are DEPENDENT upon
others organizing them. Consider the "I'm bored!!!" refrain from schooled
children in the summer. No one to tell them what to do, ergo they don't KNOW
what to do, and don't know how to find out.
I think knowing how to un-bore yourself is one of the most supremely
valuable life skills unschoolers can offer their children. This is also
called "motivation".
Pam
Nicki Clark
<<I think it can be either. I am, by nature, a very organized and structured
person. I keep lists. I organize underwear by color. I alphabetize the
spices and keep Rubbermaid in business. I have always been this way.>>
But how would you feel if your husband insisted you do these things, whether
you wanted to or not? Or your Mother? Or your landlord? Or the bank that
holds the mortgage to your home?
Actually, you already answered that you would not like that. I just think
it's interested to take the situations where we express our personality and
change them to see how we'd feel as adults if we were treated the way
children are treated in schools. It seems ludicrous and an infringement on
our personal rights and freedoms as adults but as children some people (many
people) consider it essential. Important. Normal. To be expected.
<<I think knowing how to un-bore yourself is one of the most supremely
valuable life skills unschoolers can offer their children. This is also
called "motivation".>>
Thanks for this reminder. My son had a really sad breakdown today (finally)
about the school/homeschool thing and how much he couldn't handle the
thought of (once again) leaving friends. I backed off a bit and told him
we'd talk more in the fall. Later we had a MUCH better conversation about
the benefits of homeschooling and he brought up some points of his own on
things he would look forward to about homeschooling. But he still has a very
very sad look in his eye when he talks about the pothos plant he volunteered
to take care of at home over the summer and bring back in the fall "whether
I still go there or not". He is a REALLY hard kid to read and I REALLY hate
having the responsibility of having to decide this. It is helpful to have
reminders about some of the paramount reasons he would be damaged by public
schools. I just hope I don't damage him just as much or more at home :-(
Nicki
person. I keep lists. I organize underwear by color. I alphabetize the
spices and keep Rubbermaid in business. I have always been this way.>>
But how would you feel if your husband insisted you do these things, whether
you wanted to or not? Or your Mother? Or your landlord? Or the bank that
holds the mortgage to your home?
Actually, you already answered that you would not like that. I just think
it's interested to take the situations where we express our personality and
change them to see how we'd feel as adults if we were treated the way
children are treated in schools. It seems ludicrous and an infringement on
our personal rights and freedoms as adults but as children some people (many
people) consider it essential. Important. Normal. To be expected.
<<I think knowing how to un-bore yourself is one of the most supremely
valuable life skills unschoolers can offer their children. This is also
called "motivation".>>
Thanks for this reminder. My son had a really sad breakdown today (finally)
about the school/homeschool thing and how much he couldn't handle the
thought of (once again) leaving friends. I backed off a bit and told him
we'd talk more in the fall. Later we had a MUCH better conversation about
the benefits of homeschooling and he brought up some points of his own on
things he would look forward to about homeschooling. But he still has a very
very sad look in his eye when he talks about the pothos plant he volunteered
to take care of at home over the summer and bring back in the fall "whether
I still go there or not". He is a REALLY hard kid to read and I REALLY hate
having the responsibility of having to decide this. It is helpful to have
reminders about some of the paramount reasons he would be damaged by public
schools. I just hope I don't damage him just as much or more at home :-(
Nicki
[email protected]
In a message dated 6/4/01 6:12:47 PM, nicki@... writes:
<< It seems ludicrous and an infringement on
our personal rights and freedoms as adults but as children some people (many
people) consider it essential. Important. Normal. To be expected. >>
Separates the wheat from the (lazy, disorganized) chaff.
The ability to take orders can be really important. Some people love the
military. Some people go to bondage and discipline clubs. (I wonder what
the crossover/correlation is? <g>)
But at home, with kids, it's the kind of hard call we're all having to make,
or have made and sometimes wonder about. One size doesn't fit all. I have a
child who really doesn't care where he eats. He's happy just to be with the
people he's with and will go with the flow. This frightens me when he's out
with kids I don't totally trust. School teaches people to go with the flow
and not to tattle, pretty much. That frightens me. But whatever the
situation, some kids thrive and some don't (it seems, on first thought, and
there are probably exceptions).
Still thinking...
Sandra
<< It seems ludicrous and an infringement on
our personal rights and freedoms as adults but as children some people (many
people) consider it essential. Important. Normal. To be expected. >>
Separates the wheat from the (lazy, disorganized) chaff.
The ability to take orders can be really important. Some people love the
military. Some people go to bondage and discipline clubs. (I wonder what
the crossover/correlation is? <g>)
But at home, with kids, it's the kind of hard call we're all having to make,
or have made and sometimes wonder about. One size doesn't fit all. I have a
child who really doesn't care where he eats. He's happy just to be with the
people he's with and will go with the flow. This frightens me when he's out
with kids I don't totally trust. School teaches people to go with the flow
and not to tattle, pretty much. That frightens me. But whatever the
situation, some kids thrive and some don't (it seems, on first thought, and
there are probably exceptions).
Still thinking...
Sandra
Johanna
we have been dealing with situations occuring that my 11 yo will say something to me about and my 14 yo (who just decided to come back to homeschooling after almost six years of public schooling) will harass him and call him a tattler when it is something that should be intervened with. Just go with the flow is one of his favorite comments. He can have a very mean streak frequently. i try to give my children as much choice as I can, but we do have some boundaries. One is no namecalling or rude comments. If you disagree with someone or don't like what they are doing, express that. you have the right to say no or tell someone to stop when they violate your privacy or personal space. I have two children who seem to thrive on sarcastic, rude comments and putting other people down. One is my niece who only is with us for a little while. the other is the 14 yo. Any suggestions to help them let go of these harmful habits?
Johanna
Life is the ultimate learning experience!
Johanna
Life is the ultimate learning experience!
----- Original Message -----
From: SandraDodd@...
To: [email protected]
Sent: Monday, June 04, 2001 7:57 PM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Re: Structure (was: to choose or...)
In a message dated 6/4/01 6:12:47 PM, nicki@... writes:
<< It seems ludicrous and an infringement on
our personal rights and freedoms as adults but as children some people (many
people) consider it essential. Important. Normal. To be expected. >>
Separates the wheat from the (lazy, disorganized) chaff.
The ability to take orders can be really important. Some people love the
military. Some people go to bondage and discipline clubs. (I wonder what
the crossover/correlation is? <g>)
But at home, with kids, it's the kind of hard call we're all having to make,
or have made and sometimes wonder about. One size doesn't fit all. I have a
child who really doesn't care where he eats. He's happy just to be with the
people he's with and will go with the flow. This frightens me when he's out
with kids I don't totally trust. School teaches people to go with the flow
and not to tattle, pretty much. That frightens me. But whatever the
situation, some kids thrive and some don't (it seems, on first thought, and
there are probably exceptions).
Still thinking...
Sandra
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