offensive/defensive posts
[email protected]
I have a love/hate relationship with the particular list. On the one
hand, I love the posts from other unschoolers, the insight and,
often, spins on subjects that I've never heard before. On the other
hand, I hate it because many of the posts are "right back attcha"
posts and have people presenting opinions as fact or quoting experts
as having the facts. I think that most of us believe that
the "facts" are relative and that this isn't "know-it-all-dotcom".
After reading the exchange (or most of it) between Sandra and Lynda,
and knowing the feeling of having Sandra present herself as the owner
of the "know-it-all-dotcom" list, I picked up the book I'm
revisiting, "Learning All the Time", by John Holt.
In his explanation of the fine line parents walk between answering
your child's questions and expanding their knowledge with new
information, I think I came across the answer to what's happening out
here with us adults:
"The line if hard to find, harder yet to describe. I like my friends
to tell me things that they are interested in and that I don't know -
it is part of any good conversation. Yet I don't like being around
people who act and talk as if their mission in life were to educate
me, whose relation to me is always that of a teacher to pupil."
This quote seemed worthy of posting and maybe we have to use the same
philosophy we use to allow our children to "unschool" and self-learn
with the other adults out here. None of us are here as "teachers"
trying to "educate" everyone else. I believe when that starts
happening, that's when people become highly offended by others' posts.
Just some fuel for thought....
Chris
hand, I love the posts from other unschoolers, the insight and,
often, spins on subjects that I've never heard before. On the other
hand, I hate it because many of the posts are "right back attcha"
posts and have people presenting opinions as fact or quoting experts
as having the facts. I think that most of us believe that
the "facts" are relative and that this isn't "know-it-all-dotcom".
After reading the exchange (or most of it) between Sandra and Lynda,
and knowing the feeling of having Sandra present herself as the owner
of the "know-it-all-dotcom" list, I picked up the book I'm
revisiting, "Learning All the Time", by John Holt.
In his explanation of the fine line parents walk between answering
your child's questions and expanding their knowledge with new
information, I think I came across the answer to what's happening out
here with us adults:
"The line if hard to find, harder yet to describe. I like my friends
to tell me things that they are interested in and that I don't know -
it is part of any good conversation. Yet I don't like being around
people who act and talk as if their mission in life were to educate
me, whose relation to me is always that of a teacher to pupil."
This quote seemed worthy of posting and maybe we have to use the same
philosophy we use to allow our children to "unschool" and self-learn
with the other adults out here. None of us are here as "teachers"
trying to "educate" everyone else. I believe when that starts
happening, that's when people become highly offended by others' posts.
Just some fuel for thought....
Chris
[email protected]
In a message dated 5/23/2001 2:20:04 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
cmas100@... writes:
their opinion about who is doing what, etc. but for me, and my relevance to
the issue, this is exactly what Lynda did. Trying to be the teacher and tell
me what the truth is. . . sorry, but I can find my own truth and it may or
may not match up with others. That being said, I find it also enlightening to
be able to discuss issues and things with others and maybe see something I
had not been able to see before. . .come to some understanding. But when it
is presented the way Lynda has, as being "the way" or "the truth", then
forget it. . . you have lost me. I do enjoy this list and will continue to
post and read others post, and hopefully learn a little something about
myself, which is all I can do.
lovemary
If you wanna make the world a better place, take a look at yourself, and then
make a change.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
cmas100@... writes:
> None of us are here as "teachers"Exactly Chris. . .you hit the nail on the head there. I guess everyone has
> trying to "educate" everyone else. I believe when that starts
> happening, that's when people become highly offended by others' posts.
>
> Just some fuel for thought....
>
> Chris
>
>
their opinion about who is doing what, etc. but for me, and my relevance to
the issue, this is exactly what Lynda did. Trying to be the teacher and tell
me what the truth is. . . sorry, but I can find my own truth and it may or
may not match up with others. That being said, I find it also enlightening to
be able to discuss issues and things with others and maybe see something I
had not been able to see before. . .come to some understanding. But when it
is presented the way Lynda has, as being "the way" or "the truth", then
forget it. . . you have lost me. I do enjoy this list and will continue to
post and read others post, and hopefully learn a little something about
myself, which is all I can do.
lovemary
If you wanna make the world a better place, take a look at yourself, and then
make a change.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
debbie jones
<P> >>> <FONT face="Courier New">If you wanna make the world a better
place, take a look at yourself, and then <BR>make a change.</FONT></P>
<P><FONT face="Courier New">I couldn't agree with you more. It can be the most
difficult thing to do but well worth the effort.</FONT></P>
<P><FONT face="Courier New">Debbie</FONT> <BR><BR></P>
<P> <B><I>lite2yu@...</I></B> wrote: <BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff
2px solid"><TT>In a message dated 5/23/2001 2:20:04 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
<BR>cmas100@... writes:<BR><BR><BR>> None of us are here as
"teachers" <BR>> trying to "educate" everyone else. I believe when
that starts <BR>> happening, that's when people become highly offended by
others' posts.<BR>> <BR>> Just some fuel for thought....<BR>> <BR>>
Chris<BR>> <BR>> <BR><BR>Exactly Chris. . .you hit the nail on the head
there. I guess everyone has <BR>their opinion about who is doing what, etc. but
for me, and my relevance to <BR>the issue, this is exactly what Lynda did.
Trying to be the teacher and tell <BR>me what the truth is. . . sorry, but I
can find my own truth and it may or <BR>may not match up with others. That
being said, I find it also enlightening to <BR>be able to discuss issues and
things with others and maybe see something I <BR>had not been able to see
before. . .come to some understanding. But when it <BR>is presented the way
Lynda has, as being "the way" or "the truth", then <BR>forget it. . . you have
lost me. I do enjoy this list and will continue to <BR>post and read others
post, and hopefully learn a little something about <BR>myself, which is all I
can do.<BR><BR>lovemary<BR>If you wanna make the world a better place, take a
look at yourself, and then <BR>make a change.<BR><BR><BR>[Non-text portions of
this message have been removed]<BR><BR></TT><BR><!-- |**|begin egp html
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place, take a look at yourself, and then <BR>make a change.</FONT></P>
<P><FONT face="Courier New">I couldn't agree with you more. It can be the most
difficult thing to do but well worth the effort.</FONT></P>
<P><FONT face="Courier New">Debbie</FONT> <BR><BR></P>
<P> <B><I>lite2yu@...</I></B> wrote: <BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff
2px solid"><TT>In a message dated 5/23/2001 2:20:04 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
<BR>cmas100@... writes:<BR><BR><BR>> None of us are here as
"teachers" <BR>> trying to "educate" everyone else. I believe when
that starts <BR>> happening, that's when people become highly offended by
others' posts.<BR>> <BR>> Just some fuel for thought....<BR>> <BR>>
Chris<BR>> <BR>> <BR><BR>Exactly Chris. . .you hit the nail on the head
there. I guess everyone has <BR>their opinion about who is doing what, etc. but
for me, and my relevance to <BR>the issue, this is exactly what Lynda did.
Trying to be the teacher and tell <BR>me what the truth is. . . sorry, but I
can find my own truth and it may or <BR>may not match up with others. That
being said, I find it also enlightening to <BR>be able to discuss issues and
things with others and maybe see something I <BR>had not been able to see
before. . .come to some understanding. But when it <BR>is presented the way
Lynda has, as being "the way" or "the truth", then <BR>forget it. . . you have
lost me. I do enjoy this list and will continue to <BR>post and read others
post, and hopefully learn a little something about <BR>myself, which is all I
can do.<BR><BR>lovemary<BR>If you wanna make the world a better place, take a
look at yourself, and then <BR>make a change.<BR><BR><BR>[Non-text portions of
this message have been removed]<BR><BR></TT><BR><!-- |**|begin egp html
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Annette Yunker
For the most part, I have enjoyed this list. I have personally benefited
from the exchange of ideas and have a new respect for differing views.
I recently read something that made me think of some of the things going on
here on the list recently, and I want to share it. This quote has helped
me, maybe it will help someone else. Here's my two cents worth to this
discussion.
Taken from Joe Alexander's book Blatant Raw Foodist Propaganda! (yes, I'm
the one who often comments about the health delights of raw food):
"Mental prejudice is one such internal restraint. The mind likes to run in
the groove it is accustomed to; in the ruts it has worn deep. To be free
sometimes requires an effort to pull the mind out of its habitual rut and
set it to exploring new territory. The most common form of mental bondage
is the confusion of information with knowledge. Your knowledge is what you
know is true from your own experience. Information is hearsay that you have
picked up and don't know if it is true or not. The fool will say, ' If you
don't accept Jesus you'll go to hell forever.' The wise person might say,
'I know a preacher who says that if you don't accept Jesus you'll go to hell
forever.' A fool will say, 'I know that light travels 186,000 miles a
second.' A wise person might say, 'My high school science book says that
light travels 186,000 miles per second.' A free person will not confuse his
information with his knowledge."
I apologize for the Biblical reference which may offend some Bible-believing
individuals - this is the author's statement, not mine. You or I might word
it differently or choose a different example.
Further, sometimes it is helpful to me in staying emotionally detached when
I view a person's statements on the list as "I know a person who
thinks/states/believes that . . ." Sometimes, I'm even able to sit back
and enjoy the back and forth of others without jumping in even though I do
have a specific, even strong, opinion on the subject.
So, let's keep up the dialogue, it really helps to see both or two or three
sides of things sometimes. Even the hardened mind [mine ;-)] sometimes
later changes, and the seed was planted long ago by someone with whom I once
vehemently disagreed to the point of making a fool of myself.
Annette
from the exchange of ideas and have a new respect for differing views.
I recently read something that made me think of some of the things going on
here on the list recently, and I want to share it. This quote has helped
me, maybe it will help someone else. Here's my two cents worth to this
discussion.
Taken from Joe Alexander's book Blatant Raw Foodist Propaganda! (yes, I'm
the one who often comments about the health delights of raw food):
"Mental prejudice is one such internal restraint. The mind likes to run in
the groove it is accustomed to; in the ruts it has worn deep. To be free
sometimes requires an effort to pull the mind out of its habitual rut and
set it to exploring new territory. The most common form of mental bondage
is the confusion of information with knowledge. Your knowledge is what you
know is true from your own experience. Information is hearsay that you have
picked up and don't know if it is true or not. The fool will say, ' If you
don't accept Jesus you'll go to hell forever.' The wise person might say,
'I know a preacher who says that if you don't accept Jesus you'll go to hell
forever.' A fool will say, 'I know that light travels 186,000 miles a
second.' A wise person might say, 'My high school science book says that
light travels 186,000 miles per second.' A free person will not confuse his
information with his knowledge."
I apologize for the Biblical reference which may offend some Bible-believing
individuals - this is the author's statement, not mine. You or I might word
it differently or choose a different example.
Further, sometimes it is helpful to me in staying emotionally detached when
I view a person's statements on the list as "I know a person who
thinks/states/believes that . . ." Sometimes, I'm even able to sit back
and enjoy the back and forth of others without jumping in even though I do
have a specific, even strong, opinion on the subject.
So, let's keep up the dialogue, it really helps to see both or two or three
sides of things sometimes. Even the hardened mind [mine ;-)] sometimes
later changes, and the seed was planted long ago by someone with whom I once
vehemently disagreed to the point of making a fool of myself.
Annette
Sharon Rudd
My goodness there are a LOT of beautiful gentle ladies
on this list! Sharon
--- Annette Yunker <amyunker@...> wrote:
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices
http://auctions.yahoo.com/
on this list! Sharon
--- Annette Yunker <amyunker@...> wrote:
> For the most part, I have enjoyed this list. I have__________________________________________________
> personally benefited
> from the exchange of ideas and have a new respect
> for differing views.
>
> So, let's keep up the dialogue, it really helps to
> see both or two or three
> sides of things sometimes. Even the hardened mind
> [mine ;-)] sometimes
> later changes, and the seed was planted long ago by
> someone with whom I once
> vehemently disagreed to the point of making a fool
> of myself.
>
> Annette
>
>
>
>
>
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices
http://auctions.yahoo.com/