Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Lynda's repost (and worse)
[email protected]
In a message dated 5/22/01 6:36:32 PM, lurine@... writes:
<< There were no orphans or even a word for "orphan" in most
tribes. >>
There are lots of Indian language groups and cultures, some totally unrelated
to the rest, and I think this is too great a generalization to make.
I recieved a long, horribly abusive post from Lynda in private, berating me
for all manner of things, but I do want to say for the list that it would be
my preference that we talk about unschooling here, and stick to what we
personally have seen and know.
Unfounded statements like <<There were no orphans or even a word for "orphan"
in most tribes. >> don't serve to educate us, they are misinformation.
I don't think a private side-attack should be acceptable, but I had been
warned. Months ago I was told that Lynda had been asked to leave another
homeschooling discussion group because she would make unfounded statements
and attack those who asked for evidence. This has happened BIGTIME here, and
I no longer feel safe to post.
According to what I've received in private, all on the list agree with Lynda
that I'm evil. I seriously doubt that is true. Another undocumentable
statement with as much merit as some of the rest.
I could keep this secret so as not to disturb the peace, but I so object to
private attacks of this magnitude that I call on the group for defense.
For one example of many I will not make, "Four Corners" refers to a small
region of Utah, Colorado, Arizona and New Mexico. It doesn't extend to the
entire states by any means. I don't remember where Lynda lives, and she
won't tell me except for her having gone back through the archives and cited
message numbers. All I wanted were simple strai!") with the private response
to the same issue below it:
It wasn't that they used that phrase but more that it is pharse understood
today and works as a modern day explanation of how things were. Children
didn't "belong" to individual parents. Something that we hear so much
now--"Those are MY children" "I will raise them the way I want" etc., etc.
etc. More like children are chattel than small people that are a gift put
into our care to raise with love and consideration.
Children learned from all elders in a tribe. Children learned from whomever
was doing whatever it was that they needed/wanted to learn. The "village"
raised the child. There were no orphans or even a word for "orphan" in most
tribes.
Better explanation???
Lynda, who retains the title of CAM!!!
------------------------------------------
Subj: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Herd Instinct
Date: Tuesday, May 22, 2001 6:25:55 PM
From: lurine@...
To: SandraDodd@...
I have taken this off list as I don't participate in Flames on list. If you
want to post to the list, be sure you don't do anymore of your creative
editing!
Sandra the dictator sniped:
I
am tired of having things directed at me personally, too. It's flattering
in
a being-stalked kind of way, but it's tiresome for me and absolutely
tireseome for other readers.
***Sandra, you really need to step back and take a look at how you respond
to
posts. Since the first post that I had the audacity to disagree with you
in,
you have used creative editing and sniped at anything and everything I have
had to say. I am not the only person who has noticed this. And, just like
the bottom portion of this/your post, you tell people what to do as though
you
own this list. Perhaps, it would be well for you to remember how to use
your delete key.
It is not directed to YOU personally but when one answers the subject matter
in a post, if it is addressed at any single person, it would be to the
person making statements that are being addressed. How in the world could
something be addressed to someone who was not the poster if the post was in
answer to a specific post.
tangent and decided that I had said and implied things that I didn't say or
imply. You ranted about not throwing out all that fool's work because of
one book. I addressed one book and said nor implied nothing that anyone but
you would take to mean people should not read any of his other books. Read
for content, you do remember that from college.
Though, having reread the post, perhaps the real problem was that the press
that printed the book came from NM and you felt you needed to defend them.
"claim" to be part Cherokee. It is "in." It is also getting old, so we
have our little jokes about all the "Cherokee princesses" out there.
"be"
Indian does take ancestory and no matter how "in" it becomes, no matter how
much new-age garbage one acquires, no matter how many Kachina dolls one
buys, one cannot "be" Indian!
your DEMAND for proof????
***Did I miss something here? You are now List Mom and this is a moderated
list? And, when did you become psychic? The following was in reply to your
DEMAND that I give you sources. My scanner is down and I was waiting to
reply until I could send pictures that I personally own. But, here is the
list, just not in a neat order. You wanted it now, ya got it now.
Remember, you asked for it! No, actually, check the end of the post, it
won't fit here.
to that
question. Even as resently as posts #17783, 18319, 18321, and 20812. Guess
the ps repetition thing is in evidence here.
***Asked and answered before, posts 14102 and 10029.
would you like the birth children? the kidlets? the foster children? or
the "adopted" children? Please be precise.
now know as the unschooling fashion in the 60s. Nieces and nephews. The
oldest kidlets were semi-homeschooled and semi-ps'd. Internal family
politics caused this but it was always in a Frank Sinatra manner "our way."
subject line covers it. As best as can be described, we do what the kidlets
want when they want as long as it doesn't cause them harm (I wouldn't buy
the big kid chemistry set for the 9 yo when she was 5). Guess unschooling
will do, if you DEMAND a label.
***Hey, I'm not the one that is the expert on what is or is not a lie. I am
not the one that loudly proclaims for one and all to hear that I have never
told a lie.
But, hey, if I am "fictionalizing" then I am in good company as many of the
Great! unschoolers and homeschooler also believe in "misinformation."
As precisely who did my misinformation insult or antagonise? The vast
majority of folks find it amusing, particularly the age thing. In fact,
other than you saying so, oh, and dear Kim (who loudly proclaimed you to be
a bitch also, least we forget), I've never found anyone insulted by it
besides trolls.
And, don't even go there if you are proposing to compare internet profiles
with writing a book (not a novel, the publisher later changing it doesn't
make it so) with the intent to defraud and make money off of that deception.
***"We" know where the delete key is. "We" do not need to spend so much
time doing creative editing and sniping at posts that are in answer to
someone else's question.
You have "endured" pricisely that which you have put out. You have run many
folks off the list with your attacks. You have proclaimed yourself to be
the end all of expertise in unschooling. You have been rude, snide,
antagonistic and belligerent when anyone has the audacity to question your
expertise. You *demand* quotes, sources and references and have yet to
provide any for anything you have posted. You tell people on a routine
basis that if they don't like it they should find another list. You tell
people how to post and what is or is not acceptable (to whom, you?). Quite
frankly, you need to get a life!
Here it is, it is long but, remember, you asked for it:
O.K., this little game of creative editing and sniping really needs to stop.
Why, I just might have to stop giggling and LAYNWY!
Sandra rambled on creatively editing:
basis or, if one prefers, the philosophy of the American Indian as regarded
learning prior to the murderous white thieves coming to this continent.
They believed that a child learned from the whole tribe and family, that
they learned by doing, that they learned by listening to the elders.
best imitation of a valley girl <g>) I said the laws that were passed that
declared the American Indian not to be human was why they were sent to
boarding schools. Ya know, "barbarians," and "animals" were two of their
favorite adjectives.
"In the difference of language to-day lies two-thirds of our trouble. . . .
Schools should be established, which children should be required to attend;
their barbarous dialect should be blotted out and the English language
substituted. (Report of the Indian Peace Commissioners, 1868, pp. 16-17)"
"how easy it would be to assimilate Indians into the general population by
giving them a white man's education for a few years in a boarding school
(Hoxie, 1984)."
"if there were a sufficient number of reservation boarding-school-buildings
to accommodate all the Indian children of school age, and these building
could be filled and kept filled with Indian pupils, the Indian problem would
be solved within the school age of the Indian child now six years old.
(Oberly, 1885, cxiii)"
"English language only must be taught the Indian youth placed there for
educational and industrial training at the expense of the Government. If
Dakota or any other language is taught such children, they will be taken
away. (Atkins, 1887, p. xxi)"
"Every nation is jealous of its own language, and no nation ought to be more
so than ours, which approaches nearer than any other nationality to the
perfect protection of its people. True Americans all feel that the
Constitution, laws, and institutions of the United States, in their
adaptation to the wants and requirements of man, are superior to those of
any other country; and they should understand that by the spread of the
English language will these laws and institutions be more firmly established
a nd widely disseminated. Nothing so surely and perfectly stamps upon an
individual a national characteristic as language. . . . [As the Indians] are
in an English-speaking country, they must be taught the language which they
must use in transacting business with the people of this country. Atkins,
1887, pp. xxi-xxiii)"
"All instruction shall be in the English language. Pupils shall be required
to converse with employees and each other in English. All school employees
must be able to speak English fluently. (Rules for Indian Schools, 1898, p.
25)"
And to
claim that they cut the hair of all the girls is false. Boys, most likely.
***One of the most racist states in the union! And, yes it was applicable
to your state! The children were removed from the reservation or sent to
missionary schools on the reservation. They were forced to learn English
and were punished for not doing so. Physically punished! You do realise
that NM is part of Four Corners, don't you or will you claim that the
following
quote can't possibly apply to NM. I mean, one of the worst was in your
hometown.
"Kluckhohn and Leighton reported that 95% of Navajo children "went home
rather than to white communities, after leaving school, only to find
themselves handicapped for taking part in Navajo life because they did not
know the techniques and customs of their own people" (1962, p. 141)."
"In an introductory heading to a 1923 Current History article on "America's
Treatment of Her Indians," Collier (1923) declared that "the administration
of Indian affairs [is] a national disgrace -- A policy designed to rob
Indians of their property, destroy their culture and eventually exterminate
them" (p. 771, emphasis in original)."
either.>>
some
places.
***Get a grip. Failing grades do not even vaguely compare to being
physically punished, denied parental visits, being denied meals or any of
the various other punishments inflicted on these children!
uniforms
working for Title III, Title V, Title IX and JOM!
"Regardless of the school system they are in, Navajo students find
themselves in an environment controlled and dominated by non-Indians. Most
of the teachers and administrators in reservation schools are Anglo [white].
Public school boards of education are dominated by non-Indians and those few
Indians who do serve wield little authority. Parent advisory boards are the
BIA school equivalent of a board of education; while these are all Indian,
their function is only advisory and they are essentially powerless.
Navajos, in fact, have been excluded from the decision-making process in
these school systems. The result has been a variety of education policies
unrelated to the Navajo community. The Navajo language and culture have been
largely ignored in the curriculum offered to Navajo students. (United
States, 1975, pp. 126-127)"
"Enforcement of the English-only regulations was usually strict. Lawrence
Horn, a Blackfeet, who attended the government school at Heart Butte,
recalled students getting a stroke of a leather strap with holes in it every
time they spoke Indian (Parsons, 1980). "
***You were given some sources but you wanted to be spoon fed. You were not
given all sources/links because you cannot get there.
imply that someone else is lying! Twisting and creative editing of posts is
a form of LYING!
*you*, I would have been sure to quote the h*ll out of everything and
anything available. However, I wasn't. I was answering a question directed
at me. Not a general question but one that referred to my *opinion* about
the general acceptance of Prussian type education. However, I have given
you a long list of references and have included, in this post, many, many
quotes and sources. Enjoy!
make. Everyone on the list has noticed it, btw.
Further, there was one over all model and it was the Carlisle school and
government regulation. Again you speak as an authority about something you
know absolutely nothing about!
"The model for what became an entire system was the Carlisle Indian School,
established in Pennsylvania in 1875 by Captain Richard Henry Pratt, a man
whose main qualification for the task seems to have been that he'd earlier
served as warden of a military prison at Fort Marion, Florida. Following
Pratt's stated objective of "killing the Indian" in each student, Carlisle
and other such facilities-Chilocco, Albuquerque, Phoenix, Haskell,
Riverside; by 1902, there were two-dozen of thern-systematically
"deculturated" their pupils. Children brought to the schools as young as age
six were denied most or all direct contact with their families and societies
for years on end. They were shorn of their hair and required to dress in the
manner of Euro-America, forbidden to speak their languages or practice their
religions, prevented from learning their own histories or being in any other
way socialized among their own people.
Individual native families and, often, whole societies resisted the process.
In 1891, and again in 1893, Congress authorized the use of police, troops
and other forcible means to compel the transfer of children from reservation
to boarding school, and to keep them there once they'd arrived. Hence,
despite the best efforts of their elders, and not infrequently of the
students themselves, a total of 21,568 indigenous children--about a third of
the targeted age group-were confined in the schools in 1900. As of the late
1920s, the system had been diversified and expanded to the point that
upwards of eighty percent of each successive generation of native youth was
being comprehensively "acculturated" in a more-or-less uniform fashion."
http://www.zmag.org/ZMag/articles/jan98ward.htm
Abbott, F. H. (1915). The administration of Indian affairs in Canada.
Washington, DC: U.S. Government Printing Office.
Annual report of the board of Indian commissioners. (1869-1933). Washington:
U.S. Government Printing Office.
Atkins, J.D.C. (1887). Annual report of the commissioner of Indian affairs
to the secretary of the interior for the year 1887. Washington: Government
Printing Office.
Baron, D. (1990). The English-only question: An official language for
Americans? New Haven, CT: Yale University.
Bartlett, S. C. (1887, October 6). The Ruling of the Indian Bureau. The
Independent, 39(2027), pp. 1254-1255.
Bennett, W. J. (1986). First lessons: A report on elementary education in
America. Washington, DC: U.S. Department of Education.
Brown, E. A. (1952). Stubborn fool: A narrative. Caldwell, ID: Caxton.
Butler, N. M. (Ed.) (1910). Education and the Indian. In Education in the
United States. New York: American Book Co.
Collier, J. (1923, March). Our Indian policy. Sunset Magazine, 13-15 &
89-93.
Collier, J. (1923, August). America's treatment of her Indians. Current
History, 771-778.
Crawford, J. (1990). Language freedom and restriction: A historical approach
to the official language controversy. In J. Reyhner (Ed.), Effective
language education practices and native language survival (pp. 9-22).
Choctaw, OK: Native American Language Issues.
Deloria, Jr., V. (1990). Traditional education in the world. Winds of
Change, 5(10), 13 & 16-18.
Deyhle, D. (1989). Pushouts and pullouts: Navajo and Ute school leavers.
Journal of Navajo Education, 6(2), 36-51.
Eder, J., & Reyhner, J. (1988). The historical background of Indian
education. In J. Reyhner (Ed.), Teaching the Indian child: A
bilingual/multicultural approach (pp. 29-54). Billings, MT: Eastern Montana
College.
Editorial. (1874, January). IAPI OAYE, 3(1), 1874, p. 4.
Editorial. (1990). Education, 10, 449-453.
Fuchs, E., & Havighurst, R. J. [1972] 1983. To live on this earth: American
Indian education. Albuquerque, NM: University of New Mexico.
Goodale, E. (1891). Self-teaching in the Indian schools. Educational Review,
1, pp. 57-59.
Hakuta, K., & Pease-Alvarez, L. (Eds.). (1992). Special issue on bilingual
education. Educational Researcher, 21(2), 1-47.
Hawkins, J. E. (1971). Forward. In Bilingual education for American Indians
(Curriculum Bulletin No. 3). Washington, DC: Office of Education Programs,
BIA.
Hinman, S.D. (1869). Journal of the Rev. S.D. Hinman missionary to the
Santee Sioux Indians. Philadelphia: McCalla & Stavely.
Hopkins, S. W. (1883). Life among the Piutes: Their wrongs and claims,
edited by Mrs. Horace Mann. Boston: Cupples, Upham & Co.
Howard, O. O. (1907). My life and experiences among our hostile Indians.
Hartford, CN: A.T. Worthington.
Hoxie, F.E. (1984). A final promise: The campaign to assimilate the Indians,
1880-1920. Lincoln: University of Nebraska.
Indian education: Americas unpaid debt. (1982). Washington, DC: U.S.
Government Printing Office. (The eighth annual report to the Congress of the
United States by the National Advisory Council on Indian Education).
Kluckhohn, C., & Leighton, D. (1962). The Navaho, revised edition. New York:
Doubleday.
Kneale, A. H. (1950). Indian agent. Caldwell, ID: Caxton.
Latham, G. I. (1989). Thirteen most common needs of American Indian
education in BIA schools. Journal of American Indian Education, 29(1), 1-11.
Layman, M. E. (1942). A history of Indian education. Unpublished Doctoral
Dissertation, University of Minnesota.
Leap, W.L. (1982). Roles for the linguist in Indian bilingual education. In
R. St. Clair & W. Leap (Eds.), Language renewal among American Indian
tribes: Issues, problems, and prospects (pp. 19-30). Rosslyn, VI: National
Clearinghouse for Bi lingual Education.
Littlebear, D. (1990). Keynote address: Effective language education
practices and native language survival. In J. Reyhner (Ed.), Effective
language education practices and native language survival (pp. 1-8).
Choctaw, OK: Native American Language Issues.
Meriam, L. (Ed.) (1928). The problem of Indian administration. Baltimore:
John Hopkins.
Nader, R. (1969). "Statement of Ralph Nader, author, Lecturer." Indian
Education, 1969, pt. 1, 47-55. Hearings before the subcommittee on Indian
Education of the Committee on Labor and Public Welfare. U.S. Senate, 91st
Cong., 1st sess. Washington, D.C.: Government Printing Office.
Native American Languages Act of 1990, 104, 25 U.S.C. 2901-2906.
Navajo Division of Education. (1985). Navajo Nation: Educational policies.
Window Rock, AZ: Navajo Division of Education.
North, I. (1891). as quoted in The Word Carrier, 20(5), 10-11.
Northern Ute Tribe. 1985. Ute language policy. Cultural Survival Quarterly,
9(2), 16-19.
Office of Indian Education Programs, Bureau of Indian Affairs, U.S.
Department of the Interior. (1988). Report on BIA education: Excellence in
Indian education the effective school process (Final review draft).
Washington, DC: Author. (ERIC Document Reproduction Service No. ED 297 899)
Office of Inspector General, U.S. Department of the Interior. (1991). Audit
report: Implementation of the education amendments of 1978, Bureau of Indian
Affairs. Washington, DC: Author. (Report No. 91-I-941)
Oberly, J. H. (1885). In Annual report of the commissioner of Indian affairs
to the secretary of the interior for the year 1885, lxxv-ccxxv. Washington:
Government Printing Office.
Parsons, J. (1980). The educational movement of the Blackfeet Indians
1840-1979. Browning, MT: Blackfeet Heritage Program.
Pascua Yaqui Tribal Council. (1984). Yaqui language policy for the Pascua
Yaqui Tribe: Policy declaration. Tucson, AZ: Tucson Unified School District.
Platero Paperwork, Inc. (1986). Executive summary: Navajo area student
dropout study. Window Rock, AZ: Navajo Nation, Navajo Division of Education.
Pond, Jr., S.W. (1893). Two volunteer missionaries among the Dakotas or the
story of the labors of Samuel W. and Gideon H. Pond. Boston: Congregational
Sunday-School and Publishing Society.
Porter, R. P. (1990). Forked tongue: The politics of bilingual education.
New York: Basic Books.
Prucha, F. P. (1973). Americanizing the American Indians. Cambridge, MA:
Harvard University.
Reyhner, J. (1990). A description of the Rock Point Community School
bilingual education program. In J. Reyhner (Ed.). Effective language
education practices and native language survival (pp. 95-106). Choctaw, OK:
Native American Language Issues .
Reyhner, J. (Ed.). (1988). Teaching the Indian child: A
bilingual/multicultural approach. Billings, MT: Eastern Montana College.
(ERIC Document Reproduction Service No. 301 372)
Reyhner, J., & Eder, J. (1989). A history of Indian education. Billings, MT:
Eastern Montana College. (ERIC Document Reproduction Service No. 321 953)
Report of Indian Peace Commissioners. (1868, January 7). House of
Representatives, 40th Congress, 2nd Session, Executive Document No. 97.
(Serial Set, 1337, Vol. 11, No. 97).
Riggs, S. R. (1880). Mary and I: Forty years with the Sioux. Chicago: W.G.
Holmes.
Riggs, S. R., & Pond, G. H. (1839). The Dakota first reading Book.
Cincinnati: Kendall and Henry Printers.
Riggs, M. B. (1928). Early days at Santee: The beginnings of Santee Normal
Training School founded by Dr. and Mrs. A.L. Riggs in 1870. Santee, NE:
Santee N.T.S.
Rules for the Indian schools. (1898). Washington: Government Printing
Office.
Special Subcommittee on Indian Education, Senate Committee on Labor and
Public Welfare. (1969). Indian education: A national tragedy, a national
challenge. (Senate Report 91-501 -- Commonly known as the Kennedy Report)
Standing Bear, L. (1928). My people the Sioux, edited by E. A. Brininstool.
Boston: Houghton Mifflin.
Suina, J. H. (1988). When I went to school. In R. Cocking & J. P.Mestre
(Eds.), Linguistic and cultural influences on learning mathematics (pp.
295-299). Hillsdale, N.J.: Lawrence Erlbaum Associates.
Szasz, M. C. (1988). Indian education in the American colonies, 1607-1783.
Albuquerque: University of New Mexico.
Szasz, M. C. (1977). Education and the American Indian: The road to
self-determination since 1928, 2nd ed. Albuquerque: University of New
Mexico.
Task Force Five: Indian Education. (1976). Report on Indian education: Final
report to the American Indian Policy Review Commission. Washington, DC: U.S.
Government Printing Office.
Thompson, H. (1975). The Navajos' long walk for education: A history of
Navajo education. Tsaile, AZ: Navajo Community College.
United States Commission on Civil Rights. (1975, September). The Navajo
Nation: An American colony. Washington, DC: Author.
Wax, M. L. (1971). Indian Americans: Unity and diversity. Englewood Cliffs,
NJ: Prentice-Hall.
http://libweb.princeton.edu:2003/libraries/firestone/rbsc/finding_aids/aaia/
aaia.html
http://www.nross.com/namohist.htm#volume2 (tape with boarding school first
person narrative)
***And just incase that isn't enough, here's a bucket more:
Punishment:
Two of our girls ran away...but they got caught. They tied their legs up,
tied their hands behind their backs, put them in the middle of the hallway
so that if they fell, fell asleep or something, the matron would hear them
and she'd get out there and whip them and make them stand up again. (Helma
Ward, Makah, interview with Carolyn Marr)
"The placement of North American Indian youngsters in residential boarding
schools - and the abusive treatment they received there - is a part of our
history that is seldom talked about."
http://staff.lib.muohio.edu/nawpa/manuelHaskell.html
"Its effects, they say, were more devastating than the sexual assaults and
beatings that occurred in at least some of the 125 Indian Residential
Schools from the mid-19th century until the 1970s."
http://www.vanessascollection.com/main/2000/9-24indian.html
Through the Eyes of a Basketweaver
Creation Section
Dir., photo dir.: Vern Korb
Documentary. While she weaves her baskets according to traditional
techniques of the Hupa, Yurok and Karuk nations, Vivien Hailstone re-weaves
the historical and cultural background of these Northern California peoples.
She tells of the near disappearance of this art when, as a young girl in a
boarding school, she was forbidden to express her heritage, either through
her language or the practice of a craft passed on by her grandmother.
"Also, beginning in the 1880s, boarding schools were established, resulting
in the forced separation of children from their families. Language Loss and
Revitalization in California , By Leanne Hinton, Department of Linguistics,
University of California, Berkeley"
"Like many of our parents and grandparents, he was sent to a boarding school
and punished for using his language. People of the Seventh Fire by Dagmar
Thorpe"
"Boarding Schools or Concentration Camps? The end of the Gold Rush era
signaled a change in U.S. policy towards Native people. Instead of directly
killing California indigenous people, reservations were created and
indigenous people were re-located to them. The children were taken, often by
force, away from their parents and to far-away re-education centers.
Children as young as four attended these re-education centers. They were
forced to cut their hair and give up their clothing upon arrival.
Children could not have visitors, including their parents, while they stayed
at the centers. Some children stayed for years at a time. Indian children
were often farmed out as free labor to white settlers in boarding school
communities, and sometimes sold outright at auctions held by boarding school
teachers." http://www.originalvoices.org/USGovtRolesSix.htm
"You know how I was raised? In a boarding school, being slapped across the
face, beaten for being an Indian, feeling ashamed of the color of my skin."
Sweet Tears and Bitter Pills, Mariana Kawall Leal Ferreira.
"The model for what became an entire system was the Carlisle Indian School,
established in Pennsylvania in 1875 by Captain Richard Henry Pratt, a man
whose main qualification for the task seems to have been that he'd earlier
served as warden of a military prison at Fort Marion, Florida. Following
Pratt's stated objective of "killing the Indian" in each student, Carlisle
and other such facilities-Chilocco, Albuquerque, Phoenix, Haskell,
Riverside; by 1902, there were two-dozen of thern-systematically
"deculturated" their pupils. Children brought to the schools as young as age
six were denied most or all direct contact with their families and societies
for years on end. They were shorn of their hair and required to dress in the
manner of Euro-America, forbidden to speak their languages or practice their
religions, prevented from learning their own histories or being in any other
way socialized among their own people.
Individual native families and, often, whole societies resisted the process.
In 1891, and again in 1893, Congress authorized the use of police, troops
and other forcible means to compel the transfer of children from reservation
to boarding school, and to keep them there once they'd arrived. Hence,
despite the best efforts of their elders, and not infrequently of the
students themselves, a total of 21,568 indigenous children--about a third of
the targeted age group-were confined in the schools in 1900. As of the late
1920s, the system had been diversified and expanded to the point that
upwards of eighty percent of each successive generation of native youth was
being comprehensively "acculturated" in a more-or-less uniform fashion."
http://www.zmag.org/ZMag/articles/jan98ward.htm
"According to many observers, the regimen of the schools usually included
getting Indians to dress, speak, and act like white people (see for example,
Whiteman, 1986)."
"At that time Indians were not U.S. citizens, and they lacked the right to
control their own lives and the education of their children (Eder & Reyhner,
1988; Whiteman, 1986).
://www.zmag.org/ZMag/articles/jan98ward.htm
"Indian Commissioner Thomas J. Morgan wrote in 1889 that "the Indians must
conform 'to the white man's ways,' peaceably if they will, forcibly if they
must." Many Indians began their education at this time in boarding schools,
often far from home, where they had their hair cut, where their native
clothes were replaced, and where they were often punished for speaking their
own languages (Whiteman, 1986)."
http://www.ed.gov/databases/ERIC_Digests/ed314228.html
While some Indian resistance was crushed by dramatic massacres, for the most
part it was subdued by a combination of disease, alcohol, food rationing,
the cooperation of Indian collaborators, and the theft of children for
boarding schools - a situation not radically unlike today.
http://www.cwis.org/fwdp/Americas/anti-ind.txt
Pictures:
http://content.lib.washington.edu/cgi-bin/pview.exe?CISOROOT=/loc&CISOPTR=18
27&CISORESTMP=/aipnw/search-templates/aipnw-results.html&CISOVIEWTMP=/aipnw/
search-templates/aipnw-view1.html&CISOCLICK=title:subjec
<< There were no orphans or even a word for "orphan" in most
tribes. >>
There are lots of Indian language groups and cultures, some totally unrelated
to the rest, and I think this is too great a generalization to make.
I recieved a long, horribly abusive post from Lynda in private, berating me
for all manner of things, but I do want to say for the list that it would be
my preference that we talk about unschooling here, and stick to what we
personally have seen and know.
Unfounded statements like <<There were no orphans or even a word for "orphan"
in most tribes. >> don't serve to educate us, they are misinformation.
I don't think a private side-attack should be acceptable, but I had been
warned. Months ago I was told that Lynda had been asked to leave another
homeschooling discussion group because she would make unfounded statements
and attack those who asked for evidence. This has happened BIGTIME here, and
I no longer feel safe to post.
According to what I've received in private, all on the list agree with Lynda
that I'm evil. I seriously doubt that is true. Another undocumentable
statement with as much merit as some of the rest.
I could keep this secret so as not to disturb the peace, but I so object to
private attacks of this magnitude that I call on the group for defense.
For one example of many I will not make, "Four Corners" refers to a small
region of Utah, Colorado, Arizona and New Mexico. It doesn't extend to the
entire states by any means. I don't remember where Lynda lives, and she
won't tell me except for her having gone back through the archives and cited
message numbers. All I wanted were simple strai!") with the private response
to the same issue below it:
It wasn't that they used that phrase but more that it is pharse understood
today and works as a modern day explanation of how things were. Children
didn't "belong" to individual parents. Something that we hear so much
now--"Those are MY children" "I will raise them the way I want" etc., etc.
etc. More like children are chattel than small people that are a gift put
into our care to raise with love and consideration.
Children learned from all elders in a tribe. Children learned from whomever
was doing whatever it was that they needed/wanted to learn. The "village"
raised the child. There were no orphans or even a word for "orphan" in most
tribes.
Better explanation???
Lynda, who retains the title of CAM!!!
------------------------------------------
Subj: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Herd Instinct
Date: Tuesday, May 22, 2001 6:25:55 PM
From: lurine@...
To: SandraDodd@...
I have taken this off list as I don't participate in Flames on list. If you
want to post to the list, be sure you don't do anymore of your creative
editing!
Sandra the dictator sniped:
> In a message dated 5/22/01 11:23:12 AM Mountain Daylight Time,you
> lurine@... writes:
>
> > Nope, and speaking of misplaced, not unless you are now Sandra and
>an individual. I think that's the way things work best for many readers.
> Instead of "answering posts" how about we all discuss issues?
> I was criticized last week for quoting from three different posts in one
> response, but I was responding to the subject matter and the ideas, not to
I
am tired of having things directed at me personally, too. It's flattering
in
a being-stalked kind of way, but it's tiresome for me and absolutely
tireseome for other readers.
***Sandra, you really need to step back and take a look at how you respond
to
posts. Since the first post that I had the audacity to disagree with you
in,
you have used creative editing and sniped at anything and everything I have
had to say. I am not the only person who has noticed this. And, just like
the bottom portion of this/your post, you tell people what to do as though
you
own this list. Perhaps, it would be well for you to remember how to use
your delete key.
It is not directed to YOU personally but when one answers the subject matter
in a post, if it is addressed at any single person, it would be to the
person making statements that are being addressed. How in the world could
something be addressed to someone who was not the poster if the post was in
answer to a specific post.
> -=-A tizzy, I don't think so, just answering a post which was in defenseof a liar and a fraud. -=-
>thoughtfully,
> I did not defend a liar and a fraud. Please read carefully and
> and discuss issues philosophically instead of personally. I was defending***No actually, I think you need to reread your post. You went off on a
> fairness and calm.
tangent and decided that I had said and implied things that I didn't say or
imply. You ranted about not throwing out all that fool's work because of
one book. I addressed one book and said nor implied nothing that anyone but
you would take to mean people should not read any of his other books. Read
for content, you do remember that from college.
Though, having reread the post, perhaps the real problem was that the press
that printed the book came from NM and you felt you needed to defend them.
>***That is YOUR opinion, not a fact. The "fact" is that far too many people
> -=-. Quite frankly, real American Indians get tired of all
> the new-agers and all the bull that is out there from self-appointed
> "experts." The only calming that would be needed is when we get into a
> giggle fit over some of the comments folks make such as "my father's
> grandmother was a Cherokee princess." If they only knew what that phrase
> meant <<<bewg>>> Which, of course, being part Cherokee you would know,
> right?-=-
>
> This is antagonistic, unnecessarily.
"claim" to be part Cherokee. It is "in." It is also getting old, so we
have our little jokes about all the "Cherokee princesses" out there.
> There are full-blooded Indians who know very little of their own heritage.***Gee, whose fault would that be, I wonder.
> There are half and quarter who are fully active (I'm thinking Pueblos andhave
> Navajos, about whom I know more than other groups) in the
> community--ceremonials and dances and all. There are missionaries who
> lived three generations on the reservation who know a HUGE amount of the***To claim anything other than superficial "knowledge" is offensive. To
> history and culture and language.
>
> Knowledge doesn't come from ancestry.
"be"
Indian does take ancestory and no matter how "in" it becomes, no matter how
much new-age garbage one acquires, no matter how many Kachina dolls one
buys, one cannot "be" Indian!
>would share with her that this was not a true story.-=-
> -=-That great, I'm happy for your daughter. And hopefully her mother
>***As what I was replying to was.
> This, too, is sarcastic and insulting.
>she
> -=-And if, as you say, your mother "could live on a reservation," then
> would be an enrolled tribal member of one of the tribes that has aNation
> reservation and would have received a copy of the letter the Cherokee
> sent out about their thoughts on this movie, right?-=-***Yup, and rightly so. Far too many claims of being Cherokee. Where was
>
> Sarcasm.
your DEMAND for proof????
> -=-Gee, strange comment coming from a supposed unschooler since generally***Redeeming was not why the grin was there. It was there because I was.
> speaking they don't accept what is dished up as fact and are more inclined
> to search out the truth. But I guess from the snippy little comments, the
> "little needle" must have gotten close <g>-=-
>
> Rude sarcasm and the grin doesn't redeem it a bit.
>me, but the third is certainly not the best choice):
> Lynda, now this is direct, and I apologize. You have twice now ignored
> requests for documentation of details you have presented. Please answer
> these questions, or drop out of the discussion (or throw a fit and insult
***Did I miss something here? You are now List Mom and this is a moderated
list? And, when did you become psychic? The following was in reply to your
DEMAND that I give you sources. My scanner is down and I was waiting to
reply until I could send pictures that I personally own. But, here is the
list, just not in a neat order. You wanted it now, ya got it now.
Remember, you asked for it! No, actually, check the end of the post, it
won't fit here.
>***Repetitious. You have been on this list long enough to know the answer
> Where do you live?
to that
question. Even as resently as posts #17783, 18319, 18321, and 20812. Guess
the ps repetition thing is in evidence here.
> Are you "a real American Indian [getting tired of all the new-agers andall the bull...]?
***Asked and answered before, posts 14102 and 10029.
>How old are your children?***Asked and answered many times, but since your question was not specific,
would you like the birth children? the kidlets? the foster children? or
the "adopted" children? Please be precise.
> Have you always homeschooled?***Asked and answered before, many times! I first homeschooled in what is
now know as the unschooling fashion in the 60s. Nieces and nephews. The
oldest kidlets were semi-homeschooled and semi-ps'd. Internal family
politics caused this but it was always in a Frank Sinatra manner "our way."
> Are you an unschooler?***I don't "do" labels. I find folks that have to label things, well, the
subject line covers it. As best as can be described, we do what the kidlets
want when they want as long as it doesn't cause them harm (I wouldn't buy
the big kid chemistry set for the 9 yo when she was 5). Guess unschooling
will do, if you DEMAND a label.
>which are insulting and antagonistic?)
> Do you believe that lies are always bad? (Like fictionalized profiles
***Hey, I'm not the one that is the expert on what is or is not a lie. I am
not the one that loudly proclaims for one and all to hear that I have never
told a lie.
But, hey, if I am "fictionalizing" then I am in good company as many of the
Great! unschoolers and homeschooler also believe in "misinformation."
As precisely who did my misinformation insult or antagonise? The vast
majority of folks find it amusing, particularly the age thing. In fact,
other than you saying so, oh, and dear Kim (who loudly proclaimed you to be
a bitch also, least we forget), I've never found anyone insulted by it
besides trolls.
And, don't even go there if you are proposing to compare internet profiles
with writing a book (not a novel, the publisher later changing it doesn't
make it so) with the intent to defraud and make money off of that deception.
>would like to have the stats on my seemingly-dedicated detractor.
> I'm not being hypothetical in the least.
> We're spending a lot of time reading your long posts, and I would like to
> know how much merit they deserve. I have endured a lot of insult, and
***"We" know where the delete key is. "We" do not need to spend so much
time doing creative editing and sniping at posts that are in answer to
someone else's question.
You have "endured" pricisely that which you have put out. You have run many
folks off the list with your attacks. You have proclaimed yourself to be
the end all of expertise in unschooling. You have been rude, snide,
antagonistic and belligerent when anyone has the audacity to question your
expertise. You *demand* quotes, sources and references and have yet to
provide any for anything you have posted. You tell people on a routine
basis that if they don't like it they should find another list. You tell
people how to post and what is or is not acceptable (to whom, you?). Quite
frankly, you need to get a life!
Here it is, it is long but, remember, you asked for it:
O.K., this little game of creative editing and sniping really needs to stop.
Why, I just might have to stop giggling and LAYNWY!
Sandra rambled on creatively editing:
> In a message dated 5/20/01 9:42:00 PM, lurine@... writes:the
>
> << The term that Hilliary made so icky to some, "it takes a village" is
> basis for American Indian learning up until the advent of the U.S.***Duh! It doesn't say it is an American Indian quote. I said it is the
> government passing laws stating that Indians were not humans and had no
> rights given to humans. >>
>
> I didn't think it was an American Indian quote.
basis or, if one prefers, the philosophy of the American Indian as regarded
learning prior to the murderous white thieves coming to this continent.
They believed that a child learned from the whole tribe and family, that
they learned by doing, that they learned by listening to the elders.
> I thought it was African. Can anyone confirm or deny?***Creative editing again! ~~sigh~~ It IS getting soooo boring! (Using my
>
> <<This was used to remove all Indian children from
> their homes and ship them off to boarding schools where the worst of the
> worse parts of the Prussian model were practiced. >>
>
> This is not so. "It takes a village" was not ANY justification for taking
> kids to boarding schools.
best imitation of a valley girl <g>) I said the laws that were passed that
declared the American Indian not to be human was why they were sent to
boarding schools. Ya know, "barbarians," and "animals" were two of their
favorite adjectives.
"In the difference of language to-day lies two-thirds of our trouble. . . .
Schools should be established, which children should be required to attend;
their barbarous dialect should be blotted out and the English language
substituted. (Report of the Indian Peace Commissioners, 1868, pp. 16-17)"
"how easy it would be to assimilate Indians into the general population by
giving them a white man's education for a few years in a boarding school
(Hoxie, 1984)."
"if there were a sufficient number of reservation boarding-school-buildings
to accommodate all the Indian children of school age, and these building
could be filled and kept filled with Indian pupils, the Indian problem would
be solved within the school age of the Indian child now six years old.
(Oberly, 1885, cxiii)"
"English language only must be taught the Indian youth placed there for
educational and industrial training at the expense of the Government. If
Dakota or any other language is taught such children, they will be taken
away. (Atkins, 1887, p. xxi)"
"Every nation is jealous of its own language, and no nation ought to be more
so than ours, which approaches nearer than any other nationality to the
perfect protection of its people. True Americans all feel that the
Constitution, laws, and institutions of the United States, in their
adaptation to the wants and requirements of man, are superior to those of
any other country; and they should understand that by the spread of the
English language will these laws and institutions be more firmly established
a nd widely disseminated. Nothing so surely and perfectly stamps upon an
individual a national characteristic as language. . . . [As the Indians] are
in an English-speaking country, they must be taught the language which they
must use in transacting business with the people of this country. Atkins,
1887, pp. xxi-xxiii)"
"All instruction shall be in the English language. Pupils shall be required
to converse with employees and each other in English. All school employees
must be able to speak English fluently. (Rules for Indian Schools, 1898, p.
25)"
>boarding schools wore white uniforms is simply to supply misinformation.
> <<They were all given
> Buster Brown haircuts (boys and girls) and dressed in white uniforms. >>
>
> Perhaps in one school you know of. To make a claim like all Indian
And to
claim that they cut the hair of all the girls is false. Boys, most likely.
> I live where there were still Indian schools very lately (still might beSt.
> Katherines' in Santa Fe, but if so, haircutting even for boys is long,long gone), and what you've written is not applicable.
***One of the most racist states in the union! And, yes it was applicable
to your state! The children were removed from the reservation or sent to
missionary schools on the reservation. They were forced to learn English
and were punished for not doing so. Physically punished! You do realise
that NM is part of Four Corners, don't you or will you claim that the
following
quote can't possibly apply to NM. I mean, one of the worst was in your
hometown.
"Kluckhohn and Leighton reported that 95% of Navajo children "went home
rather than to white communities, after leaving school, only to find
themselves handicapped for taking part in Navajo life because they did not
know the techniques and customs of their own people" (1962, p. 141)."
"In an introductory heading to a 1923 Current History article on "America's
Treatment of Her Indians," Collier (1923) declared that "the administration
of Indian affairs [is] a national disgrace -- A policy designed to rob
Indians of their property, destroy their culture and eventually exterminate
them" (p. 771, emphasis in original)."
>practicing
> << They were denied their language and religion and punished for
either.>>
>speaking LOTS of languages even until lately, and probably even today in
> That is true, but that's was also true in public schools of children
some
places.
***Get a grip. Failing grades do not even vaguely compare to being
physically punished, denied parental visits, being denied meals or any of
the various other punishments inflicted on these children!
>to attend church run schools on the reservations. Same haircuts and
> <<Those children that were not shipped off to boarding schools were forced
uniforms
> were required. The treatment was brutal because it was "o.k." to beat and***Congress, first person reports, first hand information, relatives,
> torture Indian children because they weren't "human.">>
>
> Where are you getting this information?
working for Title III, Title V, Title IX and JOM!
"Regardless of the school system they are in, Navajo students find
themselves in an environment controlled and dominated by non-Indians. Most
of the teachers and administrators in reservation schools are Anglo [white].
Public school boards of education are dominated by non-Indians and those few
Indians who do serve wield little authority. Parent advisory boards are the
BIA school equivalent of a board of education; while these are all Indian,
their function is only advisory and they are essentially powerless.
Navajos, in fact, have been excluded from the decision-making process in
these school systems. The result has been a variety of education policies
unrelated to the Navajo community. The Navajo language and culture have been
largely ignored in the curriculum offered to Navajo students. (United
States, 1975, pp. 126-127)"
"Enforcement of the English-only regulations was usually strict. Lawrence
Horn, a Blackfeet, who attended the government school at Heart Butte,
recalled students getting a stroke of a leather strap with holes in it every
time they spoke Indian (Parsons, 1980). "
>then denied saying it.
> Last time I asked for resources you said you had classified sources and
***You were given some sources but you wanted to be spoon fed. You were not
given all sources/links because you cannot get there.
>***Unless you can prove otherwise, I would think you would be wise to not
> Please, please--tell what is true or don't tell anything.
imply that someone else is lying! Twisting and creative editing of posts is
a form of LYING!
>for the answer....>>
> <<Which does not exactly answer your question but gives you a foundation
>***If, and that's a mighty big IF, I had been answering a question from
> Answers should be founded in documentable truth when possible, and direct
> account when possible. Sources and quotes, please.
*you*, I would have been sure to quote the h*ll out of everything and
anything available. However, I wasn't. I was answering a question directed
at me. Not a general question but one that referred to my *opinion* about
the general acceptance of Prussian type education. However, I have given
you a long list of references and have included, in this post, many, many
quotes and sources. Enjoy!
> I'm not questioning the evils of Indian schools. I'm questioning your***Yes indeedy, you are AGAIN questioning me or any assertion that I may
> assertion of details as thought there was one overall model of boarding
> school, or one overall group of Indians.
make. Everyone on the list has noticed it, btw.
Further, there was one over all model and it was the Carlisle school and
government regulation. Again you speak as an authority about something you
know absolutely nothing about!
"The model for what became an entire system was the Carlisle Indian School,
established in Pennsylvania in 1875 by Captain Richard Henry Pratt, a man
whose main qualification for the task seems to have been that he'd earlier
served as warden of a military prison at Fort Marion, Florida. Following
Pratt's stated objective of "killing the Indian" in each student, Carlisle
and other such facilities-Chilocco, Albuquerque, Phoenix, Haskell,
Riverside; by 1902, there were two-dozen of thern-systematically
"deculturated" their pupils. Children brought to the schools as young as age
six were denied most or all direct contact with their families and societies
for years on end. They were shorn of their hair and required to dress in the
manner of Euro-America, forbidden to speak their languages or practice their
religions, prevented from learning their own histories or being in any other
way socialized among their own people.
Individual native families and, often, whole societies resisted the process.
In 1891, and again in 1893, Congress authorized the use of police, troops
and other forcible means to compel the transfer of children from reservation
to boarding school, and to keep them there once they'd arrived. Hence,
despite the best efforts of their elders, and not infrequently of the
students themselves, a total of 21,568 indigenous children--about a third of
the targeted age group-were confined in the schools in 1900. As of the late
1920s, the system had been diversified and expanded to the point that
upwards of eighty percent of each successive generation of native youth was
being comprehensively "acculturated" in a more-or-less uniform fashion."
http://www.zmag.org/ZMag/articles/jan98ward.htm
>***Here's a few more references to keep a ps teacher's soul happy and busy:
Abbott, F. H. (1915). The administration of Indian affairs in Canada.
Washington, DC: U.S. Government Printing Office.
Annual report of the board of Indian commissioners. (1869-1933). Washington:
U.S. Government Printing Office.
Atkins, J.D.C. (1887). Annual report of the commissioner of Indian affairs
to the secretary of the interior for the year 1887. Washington: Government
Printing Office.
Baron, D. (1990). The English-only question: An official language for
Americans? New Haven, CT: Yale University.
Bartlett, S. C. (1887, October 6). The Ruling of the Indian Bureau. The
Independent, 39(2027), pp. 1254-1255.
Bennett, W. J. (1986). First lessons: A report on elementary education in
America. Washington, DC: U.S. Department of Education.
Brown, E. A. (1952). Stubborn fool: A narrative. Caldwell, ID: Caxton.
Butler, N. M. (Ed.) (1910). Education and the Indian. In Education in the
United States. New York: American Book Co.
Collier, J. (1923, March). Our Indian policy. Sunset Magazine, 13-15 &
89-93.
Collier, J. (1923, August). America's treatment of her Indians. Current
History, 771-778.
Crawford, J. (1990). Language freedom and restriction: A historical approach
to the official language controversy. In J. Reyhner (Ed.), Effective
language education practices and native language survival (pp. 9-22).
Choctaw, OK: Native American Language Issues.
Deloria, Jr., V. (1990). Traditional education in the world. Winds of
Change, 5(10), 13 & 16-18.
Deyhle, D. (1989). Pushouts and pullouts: Navajo and Ute school leavers.
Journal of Navajo Education, 6(2), 36-51.
Eder, J., & Reyhner, J. (1988). The historical background of Indian
education. In J. Reyhner (Ed.), Teaching the Indian child: A
bilingual/multicultural approach (pp. 29-54). Billings, MT: Eastern Montana
College.
Editorial. (1874, January). IAPI OAYE, 3(1), 1874, p. 4.
Editorial. (1990). Education, 10, 449-453.
Fuchs, E., & Havighurst, R. J. [1972] 1983. To live on this earth: American
Indian education. Albuquerque, NM: University of New Mexico.
Goodale, E. (1891). Self-teaching in the Indian schools. Educational Review,
1, pp. 57-59.
Hakuta, K., & Pease-Alvarez, L. (Eds.). (1992). Special issue on bilingual
education. Educational Researcher, 21(2), 1-47.
Hawkins, J. E. (1971). Forward. In Bilingual education for American Indians
(Curriculum Bulletin No. 3). Washington, DC: Office of Education Programs,
BIA.
Hinman, S.D. (1869). Journal of the Rev. S.D. Hinman missionary to the
Santee Sioux Indians. Philadelphia: McCalla & Stavely.
Hopkins, S. W. (1883). Life among the Piutes: Their wrongs and claims,
edited by Mrs. Horace Mann. Boston: Cupples, Upham & Co.
Howard, O. O. (1907). My life and experiences among our hostile Indians.
Hartford, CN: A.T. Worthington.
Hoxie, F.E. (1984). A final promise: The campaign to assimilate the Indians,
1880-1920. Lincoln: University of Nebraska.
Indian education: Americas unpaid debt. (1982). Washington, DC: U.S.
Government Printing Office. (The eighth annual report to the Congress of the
United States by the National Advisory Council on Indian Education).
Kluckhohn, C., & Leighton, D. (1962). The Navaho, revised edition. New York:
Doubleday.
Kneale, A. H. (1950). Indian agent. Caldwell, ID: Caxton.
Latham, G. I. (1989). Thirteen most common needs of American Indian
education in BIA schools. Journal of American Indian Education, 29(1), 1-11.
Layman, M. E. (1942). A history of Indian education. Unpublished Doctoral
Dissertation, University of Minnesota.
Leap, W.L. (1982). Roles for the linguist in Indian bilingual education. In
R. St. Clair & W. Leap (Eds.), Language renewal among American Indian
tribes: Issues, problems, and prospects (pp. 19-30). Rosslyn, VI: National
Clearinghouse for Bi lingual Education.
Littlebear, D. (1990). Keynote address: Effective language education
practices and native language survival. In J. Reyhner (Ed.), Effective
language education practices and native language survival (pp. 1-8).
Choctaw, OK: Native American Language Issues.
Meriam, L. (Ed.) (1928). The problem of Indian administration. Baltimore:
John Hopkins.
Nader, R. (1969). "Statement of Ralph Nader, author, Lecturer." Indian
Education, 1969, pt. 1, 47-55. Hearings before the subcommittee on Indian
Education of the Committee on Labor and Public Welfare. U.S. Senate, 91st
Cong., 1st sess. Washington, D.C.: Government Printing Office.
Native American Languages Act of 1990, 104, 25 U.S.C. 2901-2906.
Navajo Division of Education. (1985). Navajo Nation: Educational policies.
Window Rock, AZ: Navajo Division of Education.
North, I. (1891). as quoted in The Word Carrier, 20(5), 10-11.
Northern Ute Tribe. 1985. Ute language policy. Cultural Survival Quarterly,
9(2), 16-19.
Office of Indian Education Programs, Bureau of Indian Affairs, U.S.
Department of the Interior. (1988). Report on BIA education: Excellence in
Indian education the effective school process (Final review draft).
Washington, DC: Author. (ERIC Document Reproduction Service No. ED 297 899)
Office of Inspector General, U.S. Department of the Interior. (1991). Audit
report: Implementation of the education amendments of 1978, Bureau of Indian
Affairs. Washington, DC: Author. (Report No. 91-I-941)
Oberly, J. H. (1885). In Annual report of the commissioner of Indian affairs
to the secretary of the interior for the year 1885, lxxv-ccxxv. Washington:
Government Printing Office.
Parsons, J. (1980). The educational movement of the Blackfeet Indians
1840-1979. Browning, MT: Blackfeet Heritage Program.
Pascua Yaqui Tribal Council. (1984). Yaqui language policy for the Pascua
Yaqui Tribe: Policy declaration. Tucson, AZ: Tucson Unified School District.
Platero Paperwork, Inc. (1986). Executive summary: Navajo area student
dropout study. Window Rock, AZ: Navajo Nation, Navajo Division of Education.
Pond, Jr., S.W. (1893). Two volunteer missionaries among the Dakotas or the
story of the labors of Samuel W. and Gideon H. Pond. Boston: Congregational
Sunday-School and Publishing Society.
Porter, R. P. (1990). Forked tongue: The politics of bilingual education.
New York: Basic Books.
Prucha, F. P. (1973). Americanizing the American Indians. Cambridge, MA:
Harvard University.
Reyhner, J. (1990). A description of the Rock Point Community School
bilingual education program. In J. Reyhner (Ed.). Effective language
education practices and native language survival (pp. 95-106). Choctaw, OK:
Native American Language Issues .
Reyhner, J. (Ed.). (1988). Teaching the Indian child: A
bilingual/multicultural approach. Billings, MT: Eastern Montana College.
(ERIC Document Reproduction Service No. 301 372)
Reyhner, J., & Eder, J. (1989). A history of Indian education. Billings, MT:
Eastern Montana College. (ERIC Document Reproduction Service No. 321 953)
Report of Indian Peace Commissioners. (1868, January 7). House of
Representatives, 40th Congress, 2nd Session, Executive Document No. 97.
(Serial Set, 1337, Vol. 11, No. 97).
Riggs, S. R. (1880). Mary and I: Forty years with the Sioux. Chicago: W.G.
Holmes.
Riggs, S. R., & Pond, G. H. (1839). The Dakota first reading Book.
Cincinnati: Kendall and Henry Printers.
Riggs, M. B. (1928). Early days at Santee: The beginnings of Santee Normal
Training School founded by Dr. and Mrs. A.L. Riggs in 1870. Santee, NE:
Santee N.T.S.
Rules for the Indian schools. (1898). Washington: Government Printing
Office.
Special Subcommittee on Indian Education, Senate Committee on Labor and
Public Welfare. (1969). Indian education: A national tragedy, a national
challenge. (Senate Report 91-501 -- Commonly known as the Kennedy Report)
Standing Bear, L. (1928). My people the Sioux, edited by E. A. Brininstool.
Boston: Houghton Mifflin.
Suina, J. H. (1988). When I went to school. In R. Cocking & J. P.Mestre
(Eds.), Linguistic and cultural influences on learning mathematics (pp.
295-299). Hillsdale, N.J.: Lawrence Erlbaum Associates.
Szasz, M. C. (1988). Indian education in the American colonies, 1607-1783.
Albuquerque: University of New Mexico.
Szasz, M. C. (1977). Education and the American Indian: The road to
self-determination since 1928, 2nd ed. Albuquerque: University of New
Mexico.
Task Force Five: Indian Education. (1976). Report on Indian education: Final
report to the American Indian Policy Review Commission. Washington, DC: U.S.
Government Printing Office.
Thompson, H. (1975). The Navajos' long walk for education: A history of
Navajo education. Tsaile, AZ: Navajo Community College.
United States Commission on Civil Rights. (1975, September). The Navajo
Nation: An American colony. Washington, DC: Author.
Wax, M. L. (1971). Indian Americans: Unity and diversity. Englewood Cliffs,
NJ: Prentice-Hall.
http://libweb.princeton.edu:2003/libraries/firestone/rbsc/finding_aids/aaia/
aaia.html
http://www.nross.com/namohist.htm#volume2 (tape with boarding school first
person narrative)
***And just incase that isn't enough, here's a bucket more:
Punishment:
Two of our girls ran away...but they got caught. They tied their legs up,
tied their hands behind their backs, put them in the middle of the hallway
so that if they fell, fell asleep or something, the matron would hear them
and she'd get out there and whip them and make them stand up again. (Helma
Ward, Makah, interview with Carolyn Marr)
"The placement of North American Indian youngsters in residential boarding
schools - and the abusive treatment they received there - is a part of our
history that is seldom talked about."
http://staff.lib.muohio.edu/nawpa/manuelHaskell.html
"Its effects, they say, were more devastating than the sexual assaults and
beatings that occurred in at least some of the 125 Indian Residential
Schools from the mid-19th century until the 1970s."
http://www.vanessascollection.com/main/2000/9-24indian.html
Through the Eyes of a Basketweaver
Creation Section
Dir., photo dir.: Vern Korb
Documentary. While she weaves her baskets according to traditional
techniques of the Hupa, Yurok and Karuk nations, Vivien Hailstone re-weaves
the historical and cultural background of these Northern California peoples.
She tells of the near disappearance of this art when, as a young girl in a
boarding school, she was forbidden to express her heritage, either through
her language or the practice of a craft passed on by her grandmother.
"Also, beginning in the 1880s, boarding schools were established, resulting
in the forced separation of children from their families. Language Loss and
Revitalization in California , By Leanne Hinton, Department of Linguistics,
University of California, Berkeley"
"Like many of our parents and grandparents, he was sent to a boarding school
and punished for using his language. People of the Seventh Fire by Dagmar
Thorpe"
"Boarding Schools or Concentration Camps? The end of the Gold Rush era
signaled a change in U.S. policy towards Native people. Instead of directly
killing California indigenous people, reservations were created and
indigenous people were re-located to them. The children were taken, often by
force, away from their parents and to far-away re-education centers.
Children as young as four attended these re-education centers. They were
forced to cut their hair and give up their clothing upon arrival.
Children could not have visitors, including their parents, while they stayed
at the centers. Some children stayed for years at a time. Indian children
were often farmed out as free labor to white settlers in boarding school
communities, and sometimes sold outright at auctions held by boarding school
teachers." http://www.originalvoices.org/USGovtRolesSix.htm
"You know how I was raised? In a boarding school, being slapped across the
face, beaten for being an Indian, feeling ashamed of the color of my skin."
Sweet Tears and Bitter Pills, Mariana Kawall Leal Ferreira.
"The model for what became an entire system was the Carlisle Indian School,
established in Pennsylvania in 1875 by Captain Richard Henry Pratt, a man
whose main qualification for the task seems to have been that he'd earlier
served as warden of a military prison at Fort Marion, Florida. Following
Pratt's stated objective of "killing the Indian" in each student, Carlisle
and other such facilities-Chilocco, Albuquerque, Phoenix, Haskell,
Riverside; by 1902, there were two-dozen of thern-systematically
"deculturated" their pupils. Children brought to the schools as young as age
six were denied most or all direct contact with their families and societies
for years on end. They were shorn of their hair and required to dress in the
manner of Euro-America, forbidden to speak their languages or practice their
religions, prevented from learning their own histories or being in any other
way socialized among their own people.
Individual native families and, often, whole societies resisted the process.
In 1891, and again in 1893, Congress authorized the use of police, troops
and other forcible means to compel the transfer of children from reservation
to boarding school, and to keep them there once they'd arrived. Hence,
despite the best efforts of their elders, and not infrequently of the
students themselves, a total of 21,568 indigenous children--about a third of
the targeted age group-were confined in the schools in 1900. As of the late
1920s, the system had been diversified and expanded to the point that
upwards of eighty percent of each successive generation of native youth was
being comprehensively "acculturated" in a more-or-less uniform fashion."
http://www.zmag.org/ZMag/articles/jan98ward.htm
"According to many observers, the regimen of the schools usually included
getting Indians to dress, speak, and act like white people (see for example,
Whiteman, 1986)."
"At that time Indians were not U.S. citizens, and they lacked the right to
control their own lives and the education of their children (Eder & Reyhner,
1988; Whiteman, 1986).
://www.zmag.org/ZMag/articles/jan98ward.htm
"Indian Commissioner Thomas J. Morgan wrote in 1889 that "the Indians must
conform 'to the white man's ways,' peaceably if they will, forcibly if they
must." Many Indians began their education at this time in boarding schools,
often far from home, where they had their hair cut, where their native
clothes were replaced, and where they were often punished for speaking their
own languages (Whiteman, 1986)."
http://www.ed.gov/databases/ERIC_Digests/ed314228.html
While some Indian resistance was crushed by dramatic massacres, for the most
part it was subdued by a combination of disease, alcohol, food rationing,
the cooperation of Indian collaborators, and the theft of children for
boarding schools - a situation not radically unlike today.
http://www.cwis.org/fwdp/Americas/anti-ind.txt
Pictures:
http://content.lib.washington.edu/cgi-bin/pview.exe?CISOROOT=/loc&CISOPTR=18
27&CISORESTMP=/aipnw/search-templates/aipnw-results.html&CISOVIEWTMP=/aipnw/
search-templates/aipnw-view1.html&CISOCLICK=title:subjec
debbie jones
I think this topic continues to get worse the more posts that are made. Some things don't dignify a response and are better left unsaid, especially when all those posts are clogging up our message board. I am interested in hearing about unschooling, but I may have to unsubscribe if this pettiness continues.
SandraDodd@... wrote:
In a message dated 5/22/01 6:36:32 PM, lurine@... writes:
<< There were no orphans or even a word for "orphan" in most
tribes. >>
There are lots of Indian language groups and cultures, some totally unrelated
to the rest, and I think this is too great a generalization to make.
I recieved a long, horribly abusive post from Lynda in private, berating me
for all manner of things, but I do want to say for the list that it would be
my preference that we talk about unschooling here, and stick to what we
personally have seen and know.
Unfounded statements like <<There were no orphans or even a word for "orphan"
in most tribes. >> don't serve to educate us, they are misinformation.
I don't think a private side-attack should be acceptable, but I had been
warned. Months ago I was told that Lynda had been asked to leave another
homeschooling discussion group because she would make unfounded statements
and attack those who asked for evidence. This has happened BIGTIME here, and
I no longer feel safe to post.
According to what I've received in private, all on the list agree with Lynda
that I'm evil. I seriously doubt that is true. Another undocumentable
statement with as much merit as some of the rest.
I could keep this secret so as not to disturb the peace, but I so object to
private attacks of this magnitude that I call on the group for defense.
For one example of many I will not make, "Four Corners" refers to a small
region of Utah, Colorado, Arizona and New Mexico. It doesn't extend to the
entire states by any means. I don't remember where Lynda lives, and she
won't tell me except for her having gone back through the archives and cited
message numbers. All I wanted were simple strai!") with the private response
to the same issue below it:
It wasn't that they used that phrase but more that it is pharse understood
today and works as a modern day explanation of how things were. Children
didn't "belong" to individual parents. Something that we hear so much
now--"Those are MY children" "I will raise them the way I want" etc., etc.
etc. More like children are chattel than small people that are a gift put
into our care to raise with love and consideration.
Children learned from all elders in a tribe. Children learned from whomever
was doing whatever it was that they needed/wanted to learn. The "village"
raised the child. There were no orphans or even a word for "orphan" in most
tribes.
Better explanation???
Lynda, who retains the title of CAM!!!
------------------------------------------
Subj: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Herd Instinct
Date: Tuesday, May 22, 2001 6:25:55 PM
From: lurine@...
To: SandraDodd@...
I have taken this off list as I don't participate in Flames on list. If you
want to post to the list, be sure you don't do anymore of your creative
editing!
Sandra the dictator sniped:
I
am tired of having things directed at me personally, too. It's flattering
in
a being-stalked kind of way, but it's tiresome for me and absolutely
tireseome for other readers.
***Sandra, you really need to step back and take a look at how you respond
to
posts. Since the first post that I had the audacity to disagree with you
in,
you have used creative editing and sniped at anything and everything I have
had to say. I am not the only person who has noticed this. And, just like
the bottom portion of this/your post, you tell people what to do as though
you
own this list. Perhaps, it would be well for you to remember how to use
your delete key.
It is not directed to YOU personally but when one answers the subject matter
in a post, if it is addressed at any single person, it would be to the
person making statements that are being addressed. How in the world could
something be addressed to someone who was not the poster if the post was in
answer to a specific post.
tangent and decided that I had said and implied things that I didn't say or
imply. You ranted about not throwing out all that fool's work because of
one book. I addressed one book and said nor implied nothing that anyone but
you would take to mean people should not read any of his other books. Read
for content, you do remember that from college.
Though, having reread the post, perhaps the real problem was that the press
that printed the book came from NM and you felt you needed to defend them.
"claim" to be part Cherokee. It is "in." It is also getting old, so we
have our little jokes about all the "Cherokee princesses" out there.
"be"
Indian does take ancestory and no matter how "in" it becomes, no matter how
much new-age garbage one acquires, no matter how many Kachina dolls one
buys, one cannot "be" Indian!
your DEMAND for proof????
***Did I miss something here? You are now List Mom and this is a moderated
list? And, when did you become psychic? The following was in reply to your
DEMAND that I give you sources. My scanner is down and I was waiting to
reply until I could send pictures that I personally own. But, here is the
list, just not in a neat order. You wanted it now, ya got it now.
Remember, you asked for it! No, actually, check the end of the post, it
won't fit here.
to that
question. Even as resently as posts #17783, 18319, 18321, and 20812. Guess
the ps repetition thing is in evidence here.
***Asked and answered before, posts 14102 and 10029.
would you like the birth children? the kidlets? the foster children? or
the "adopted" children? Please be precise.
now know as the unschooling fashion in the 60s. Nieces and nephews. The
oldest kidlets were semi-homeschooled and semi-ps'd. Internal family
politics caused this but it was always in a Frank Sinatra manner "our way."
subject line covers it. As best as can be described, we do what the kidlets
want when they want as long as it doesn't cause them harm (I wouldn't buy
the big kid chemistry set for the 9 yo when she was 5). Guess unschooling
will do, if you DEMAND a label.
***Hey, I'm not the one that is the expert on what is or is not a lie. I am
not the one that loudly proclaims for one and all to hear that I have never
told a lie.
But, hey, if I am "fictionalizing" then I am in good company as many of the
Great! unschoolers and homeschooler also believe in "misinformation."
As precisely who did my misinformation insult or antagonise? The vast
majority of folks find it amusing, particularly the age thing. In fact,
other than you saying so, oh, and dear Kim (who loudly proclaimed you to be
a bitch also, least we forget), I've never found anyone insulted by it
besides trolls.
And, don't even go there if you are proposing to compare internet profiles
with writing a book (not a novel, the publisher later changing it doesn't
make it so) with the intent to defraud and make money off of that deception.
***"We" know where the delete key is. "We" do not need to spend so much
time doing creative editing and sniping at posts that are in answer to
someone else's question.
You have "endured" pricisely that which you have put out. You have run many
folks off the list with your attacks. You have proclaimed yourself to be
the end all of expertise in unschooling. You have been rude, snide,
antagonistic and belligerent when anyone has the audacity to question your
expertise. You *demand* quotes, sources and references and have yet to
provide any for anything you have posted. You tell people on a routine
basis that if they don't like it they should find another list. You tell
people how to post and what is or is not acceptable (to whom, you?). Quite
frankly, you need to get a life!
Here it is, it is long but, remember, you asked for it:
O.K., this little game of creative editing and sniping really needs to stop.
Why, I just might have to stop giggling and LAYNWY!
Sandra rambled on creatively editing:
basis or, if one prefers, the philosophy of the American Indian as regarded
learning prior to the murderous white thieves coming to this continent.
They believed that a child learned from the whole tribe and family, that
they learned by doing, that they learned by listening to the elders.
best imitation of a valley girl <g>) I said the laws that were passed that
declared the American Indian not to be human was why they were sent to
boarding schools. Ya know, "barbarians," and "animals" were two of their
favorite adjectives.
"In the difference of language to-day lies two-thirds of our trouble. . . .
Schools should be established, which children should be required to attend;
their barbarous dialect should be blotted out and the English language
substituted. (Report of the Indian Peace Commissioners, 1868, pp. 16-17)"
"how easy it would be to assimilate Indians into the general population by
giving them a white man's education for a few years in a boarding school
(Hoxie, 1984)."
"if there were a sufficient number of reservation boarding-school-buildings
to accommodate all the Indian children of school age, and these building
could be filled and kept filled with Indian pupils, the Indian problem would
be solved within the school age of the Indian child now six years old.
(Oberly, 1885, cxiii)"
"English language only must be taught the Indian youth placed there for
educational and industrial training at the expense of the Government. If
Dakota or any other language is taught such children, they will be taken
away. (Atkins, 1887, p. xxi)"
"Every nation is jealous of its own language, and no nation ought to be more
so than ours, which approaches nearer than any other nationality to the
perfect protection of its people. True Americans all feel that the
Constitution, laws, and institutions of the United States, in their
adaptation to the wants and requirements of man, are superior to those of
any other country; and they should understand that by the spread of the
English language will these laws and institutions be more firmly established
a nd widely disseminated. Nothing so surely and perfectly stamps upon an
individual a national characteristic as language. . . . [As the Indians] are
in an English-speaking country, they must be taught the language which they
must use in transacting business with the people of this country. Atkins,
1887, pp. xxi-xxiii)"
"All instruction shall be in the English language. Pupils shall be required
to converse with employees and each other in English. All school employees
must be able to speak English fluently. (Rules for Indian Schools, 1898, p.
25)"
And to
claim that they cut the hair of all the girls is false. Boys, most likely.
***One of the most racist states in the union! And, yes it was applicable
to your state! The children were removed from the reservation or sent to
missionary schools on the reservation. They were forced to learn English
and were punished for not doing so. Physically punished! You do realise
that NM is part of Four Corners, don't you or will you claim that the
following
quote can't possibly apply to NM. I mean, one of the worst was in your
hometown.
"Kluckhohn and Leighton reported that 95% of Navajo children "went home
rather than to white communities, after leaving school, only to find
themselves handicapped for taking part in Navajo life because they did not
know the techniques and customs of their own people" (1962, p. 141)."
"In an introductory heading to a 1923 Current History article on "America's
Treatment of Her Indians," Collier (1923) declared that "the administration
of Indian affairs [is] a national disgrace -- A policy designed to rob
Indians of their property, destroy their culture and eventually exterminate
them" (p. 771, emphasis in original)."
either.>>
some
places.
***Get a grip. Failing grades do not even vaguely compare to being
physically punished, denied parental visits, being denied meals or any of
the various other punishments inflicted on these children!
uniforms
working for Title III, Title V, Title IX and JOM!
"Regardless of the school system they are in, Navajo students find
themselves in an environment controlled and dominated by non-Indians. Most
of the teachers and administrators in reservation schools are Anglo [white].
Public school boards of education are dominated by non-Indians and those few
Indians who do serve wield little authority. Parent advisory boards are the
BIA school equivalent of a board of education; while these are all Indian,
their function is only advisory and they are essentially powerless.
Navajos, in fact, have been excluded from the decision-making process in
these school systems. The result has been a variety of education policies
unrelated to the Navajo community. The Navajo language and culture have been
largely ignored in the curriculum offered to Navajo students. (United
States, 1975, pp. 126-127)"
"Enforcement of the English-only regulations was usually strict. Lawrence
Horn, a Blackfeet, who attended the government school at Heart Butte,
recalled students getting a stroke of a leather strap with holes in it every
time they spoke Indian (Parsons, 1980). "
***You were given some sources but you wanted to be spoon fed. You were not
given all sources/links because you cannot get there.
imply that someone else is lying! Twisting and creative editing of posts is
a form of LYING!
*you*, I would have been sure to quote the h*ll out of everything and
anything available. However, I wasn't. I was answering a question directed
at me. Not a general question but one that referred to my *opinion* about
the general acceptance of Prussian type education. However, I have given
you a long list of references and have included, in this post, many, many
quotes and sources. Enjoy!
make. Everyone on the list has noticed it, btw.
Further, there was one over all model and it was the Carlisle school and
government regulation. Again you speak as an authority about something you
know absolutely nothing about!
"The model for what became an entire system was the Carlisle Indian School,
established in Pennsylvania in 1875 by Captain Richard Henry Pratt, a man
whose main qualification for the task seems to have been that he'd earlier
served as warden of a military prison at Fort Marion, Florida. Following
Pratt's stated objective of "killing the Indian" in each student, Carlisle
and other such facilities-Chilocco, Albuquerque, Phoenix, Haskell,
Riverside; by 1902, there were two-dozen of thern-systematically
"deculturated" their pupils. Children brought to the schools as young as age
six were denied most or all direct contact with their families and societies
for years on end. They were shorn of their hair and required to dress in the
manner of Euro-America, forbidden to speak their languages or practice their
religions, prevented from learning their own histories or being in any other
way socialized among their own people.
Individual native families and, often, whole societies resisted the process.
In 1891, and again in 1893, Congress authorized the use of police, troops
and other forcible means to compel the transfer of children from reservation
to boarding school, and to keep them there once they'd arrived. Hence,
despite the best efforts of their elders, and not infrequently of the
students themselves, a total of 21,568 indigenous children--about a third of
the targeted age group-were confined in the schools in 1900. As of the late
1920s, the system had been diversified and expanded to the point that
upwards of eighty percent of each successive generation of native youth was
being comprehensively "acculturated" in a more-or-less uniform fashion."
http://www.zmag.org/ZMag/articles/jan98ward.htm
Abbott, F. H. (1915). The administration of Indian affairs in Canada.
Washington, DC: U.S. Government Printing Office.
Annual report of the board of Indian commissioners. (1869-1933). Washington:
U.S. Government Printing Office.
Atkins, J.D.C. (1887). Annual report of the commissioner of Indian affairs
to the secretary of the interior for the year 1887. Washington: Government
Printing Office.
Baron, D. (1990). The English-only question: An official language for
Americans? New Haven, CT: Yale University.
Bartlett, S. C. (1887, October 6). The Ruling of the Indian Bureau. The
Independent, 39(2027), pp. 1254-1255.
Bennett, W. J. (1986). First lessons: A report on elementary education in
America. Washington, DC: U.S. Department of Education.
Brown, E. A. (1952). Stubborn fool: A narrative. Caldwell, ID: Caxton.
Butler, N. M. (Ed.) (1910). Education and the Indian. In Education in the
United States. New York: American Book Co.
Collier, J. (1923, March). Our Indian policy. Sunset Magazine, 13-15 &
89-93.
Collier, J. (1923, August). America's treatment of her Indians. Current
History, 771-778.
Crawford, J. (1990). Language freedom and restriction: A historical approach
to the official language controversy. In J. Reyhner (Ed.), Effective
language education practices and native language survival (pp. 9-22).
Choctaw, OK: Native American Language Issues.
Deloria, Jr., V. (1990). Traditional education in the world. Winds of
Change, 5(10), 13 & 16-18.
Deyhle, D. (1989). Pushouts and pullouts: Navajo and Ute school leavers.
Journal of Navajo Education, 6(2), 36-51.
Eder, J., & Reyhner, J. (1988). The historical background of Indian
education. In J. Reyhner (Ed.), Teaching the Indian child: A
bilingual/multicultural approach (pp. 29-54). Billings, MT: Eastern Montana
College.
Editorial. (1874, January). IAPI OAYE, 3(1), 1874, p. 4.
Editorial. (1990). Education, 10, 449-453.
Fuchs, E., & Havighurst, R. J. [1972] 1983. To live on this earth: American
Indian education. Albuquerque, NM: University of New Mexico.
Goodale, E. (1891). Self-teaching in the Indian schools. Educational Review,
1, pp. 57-59.
Hakuta, K., & Pease-Alvarez, L. (Eds.). (1992). Special issue on bilingual
education. Educational Researcher, 21(2), 1-47.
Hawkins, J. E. (1971). Forward. In Bilingual education for American Indians
(Curriculum Bulletin No. 3). Washington, DC: Office of Education Programs,
BIA.
Hinman, S.D. (1869). Journal of the Rev. S.D. Hinman missionary to the
Santee Sioux Indians. Philadelphia: McCalla & Stavely.
Hopkins, S. W. (1883). Life among the Piutes: Their wrongs and claims,
edited by Mrs. Horace Mann. Boston: Cupples, Upham & Co.
Howard, O. O. (1907). My life and experiences among our hostile Indians.
Hartford, CN: A.T. Worthington.
Hoxie, F.E. (1984). A final promise: The campaign to assimilate the Indians,
1880-1920. Lincoln: University of Nebraska.
Indian education: Americas unpaid debt. (1982). Washington, DC: U.S.
Government Printing Office. (The eighth annual report to the Congress of the
United States by the National Advisory Council on Indian Education).
Kluckhohn, C., & Leighton, D. (1962). The Navaho, revised edition. New York:
Doubleday.
Kneale, A. H. (1950). Indian agent. Caldwell, ID: Caxton.
Latham, G. I. (1989). Thirteen most common needs of American Indian
education in BIA schools. Journal of American Indian Education, 29(1), 1-11.
Layman, M. E. (1942). A history of Indian education. Unpublished Doctoral
Dissertation, University of Minnesota.
Leap, W.L. (1982). Roles for the linguist in Indian bilingual education. In
R. St. Clair & W. Leap (Eds.), Language renewal among American Indian
tribes: Issues, problems, and prospects (pp. 19-30). Rosslyn, VI: National
Clearinghouse for Bi lingual Education.
Littlebear, D. (1990). Keynote address: Effective language education
practices and native language survival. In J. Reyhner (Ed.), Effective
language education practices and native language survival (pp. 1-8).
Choctaw, OK: Native American Language Issues.
Meriam, L. (Ed.) (1928). The problem of Indian administration. Baltimore:
John Hopkins.
Nader, R. (1969). "Statement of Ralph Nader, author, Lecturer." Indian
Education, 1969, pt. 1, 47-55. Hearings before the subcommittee on Indian
Education of the Committee on Labor and Public Welfare. U.S. Senate, 91st
Cong., 1st sess. Washington, D.C.: Government Printing Office.
Native American Languages Act of 1990, 104, 25 U.S.C. 2901-2906.
Navajo Division of Education. (1985). Navajo Nation: Educational policies.
Window Rock, AZ: Navajo Division of Education.
North, I. (1891). as quoted in The Word Carrier, 20(5), 10-11.
Northern Ute Tribe. 1985. Ute language policy. Cultural Survival Quarterly,
9(2), 16-19.
Office of Indian Education Programs, Bureau of Indian Affairs, U.S.
Department of the Interior. (1988). Report on BIA education: Excellence in
Indian education the effective school process (Final review draft).
Washington, DC: Author. (ERIC Document Reproduction Service No. ED 297 899)
Office of Inspector General, U.S. Department of the Interior. (1991). Audit
report: Implementation of the education amendments of 1978, Bureau of Indian
Affairs. Washington, DC: Author. (Report No. 91-I-941)
Oberly, J. H. (1885). In Annual report of the commissioner of Indian affairs
to the secretary of the interior for the year 1885, lxxv-ccxxv. Washington:
Government Printing Office.
Parsons, J. (1980). The educational movement of the Blackfeet Indians
1840-1979. Browning, MT: Blackfeet Heritage Program.
Pascua Yaqui Tribal Council. (1984). Yaqui language policy for the Pascua
Yaqui Tribe: Policy declaration. Tucson, AZ: Tucson Unified School District.
Platero Paperwork, Inc. (1986). Executive summary: Navajo area student
dropout study. Window Rock, AZ: Navajo Nation, Navajo Division of Education.
Pond, Jr., S.W. (1893). Two volunteer missionaries among the Dakotas or the
story of the labors of Samuel W. and Gideon H. Pond. Boston: Congregational
Sunday-School and Publishing Society.
Porter, R. P. (1990). Forked tongue: The politics of bilingual education.
New York: Basic Books.
Prucha, F. P. (1973). Americanizing the American Indians. Cambridge, MA:
Harvard University.
Reyhner, J. (1990). A description of the Rock Point Community School
bilingual education program. In J. Reyhner (Ed.). Effective language
education practices and native language survival (pp. 95-106). Choctaw, OK:
Native American Language Issues .
Reyhner, J. (Ed.). (1988). Teaching the Indian child: A
bilingual/multicultural approach. Billings, MT: Eastern Montana College.
(ERIC Document Reproduction Service No. 301 372)
Reyhner, J., & Eder, J. (1989). A history of Indian education. Billings, MT:
Eastern Montana College. (ERIC Document Reproduction Service No. 321 953)
Report of Indian Peace Commissioners. (1868, January 7). House of
Representatives, 40th Congress, 2nd Session, Executive Document No. 97.
(Serial Set, 1337, Vol. 11, No. 97).
Riggs, S. R. (1880). Mary and I: Forty years with the Sioux. Chicago: W.G.
Holmes.
Riggs, S. R., & Pond, G. H. (1839). The Dakota first reading Book.
Cincinnati: Kendall and Henry Printers.
Riggs, M. B. (1928). Early days at Santee: The beginnings of Santee Normal
Training School founded by Dr. and Mrs. A.L. Riggs in 1870. Santee, NE:
Santee N.T.S.
Rules for the Indian schools. (1898). Washington: Government Printing
Office.
Special Subcommittee on Indian Education, Senate Committee on Labor and
Public Welfare. (1969). Indian education: A national tragedy, a national
challenge. (Senate Report 91-501 -- Commonly known as the Kennedy Report)
Standing Bear, L. (1928). My people the Sioux, edited by E. A. Brininstool.
Boston: Houghton Mifflin.
Suina, J. H. (1988). When I went to school. In R. Cocking & J. P.Mestre
(Eds.), Linguistic and cultural influences on learning mathematics (pp.
295-299). Hillsdale, N.J.: Lawrence Erlbaum Associates.
Szasz, M. C. (1988). Indian education in the American colonies, 1607-1783.
Albuquerque: University of New Mexico.
Szasz, M. C. (1977). Education and the American Indian: The road to
self-determination since 1928, 2nd ed. Albuquerque: University of New
Mexico.
Task Force Five: Indian Education. (1976). Report on Indian education: Final
report to the American Indian Policy Review Commission. Washington, DC: U.S.
Government Printing Office.
Thompson, H. (1975). The Navajos' long walk for education: A history of
Navajo education. Tsaile, AZ: Navajo Community College.
United States Commission on Civil Rights. (1975, September). The Navajo
Nation: An American colony. Washington, DC: Author.
Wax, M. L. (1971). Indian Americans: Unity and diversity. Englewood Cliffs,
NJ: Prentice-Hall.
http://libweb.princeton.edu:2003/libraries/firestone/rbsc/finding_aids/aaia/
aaia.html
http://www.nross.com/namohist.htm#volume2 (tape with boarding school first
person narrative)
***And just incase that isn't enough, here's a bucket more:
Punishment:
Two of our girls ran away...but they got caught. They tied their legs up,
tied their hands behind their backs, put them in the middle of the hallway
so that if they fell, fell asleep or something, the matron would hear them
and she'd get out there and whip them and make them stand up again. (Helma
Ward, Makah, interview with Carolyn Marr)
"The placement of North American Indian youngsters in residential boarding
schools - and the abusive treatment they received there - is a part of our
history that is seldom talked about."
http://staff.lib.muohio.edu/nawpa/manuelHaskell.html
"Its effects, they say, were more devastating than the sexual assaults and
beatings that occurred in at least some of the 125 Indian Residential
Schools from the mid-19th century until the 1970s."
http://www.vanessascollection.com/main/2000/9-24indian.html
Through the Eyes of a Basketweaver
Creation Section
Dir., photo dir.: Vern Korb
Documentary. While she weaves her baskets according to traditional
techniques of the Hupa, Yurok and Karuk nations, Vivien Hailstone re-weaves
the historical and cultural background of these Northern California peoples.
She tells of the near disappearance of this art when, as a young girl in a
boarding school, she was forbidden to express her heritage, either through
her language or the practice of a craft passed on by her grandmother.
"Also, beginning in the 1880s, boarding schools were established, resulting
in the forced separation of children from their families. Language Loss and
Revitalization in California , By Leanne Hinton, Department of Linguistics,
University of California, Berkeley"
"Like many of our parents and grandparents, he was sent to a boarding school
and punished for using his language. People of the Seventh Fire by Dagmar
Thorpe"
"Boarding Schools or Concentration Camps? The end of the Gold Rush era
signaled a change in U.S. policy towards Native people. Instead of directly
killing California indigenous people, reservations were created and
indigenous people were re-located to them. The children were taken, often by
force, away from their parents and to far-away re-education centers.
Children as young as four attended these re-education centers. They were
forced to cut their hair and give up their clothing upon arrival.
Children could not have visitors, including their parents, while they stayed
at the centers. Some children stayed for years at a time. Indian children
were often farmed out as free labor to white settlers in boarding school
communities, and sometimes sold outright at auctions held by boarding school
teachers." http://www.originalvoices.org/USGovtRolesSix.htm
"You know how I was raised? In a boarding school, being slapped across the
face, beaten for being an Indian, feeling ashamed of the color of my skin."
Sweet Tears and Bitter Pills, Mariana Kawall Leal Ferreira.
"The model for what became an entire system was the Carlisle Indian School,
established in Pennsylvania in 1875 by Captain Richard Henry Pratt, a man
whose main qualification for the task seems to have been that he'd earlier
served as warden of a military prison at Fort Marion, Florida. Following
Pratt's stated objective of "killing the Indian" in each student, Carlisle
and other such facilities-Chilocco, Albuquerque, Phoenix, Haskell,
Riverside; by 1902, there were two-dozen of thern-systematically
"deculturated" their pupils. Children brought to the schools as young as age
six were denied most or all direct contact with their families and societies
for years on end. They were shorn of their hair and required to dress in the
manner of Euro-America, forbidden to speak their languages or practice their
religions, prevented from learning their own histories or being in any other
way socialized among their own people.
Individual native families and, often, whole societies resisted the process.
In 1891, and again in 1893, Congress authorized the use of police, troops
and other forcible means to compel the transfer of children from reservation
to boarding school, and to keep them there once they'd arrived. Hence,
despite the best efforts of their elders, and not infrequently of the
students themselves, a total of 21,568 indigenous children--about a third of
the targeted age group-were confined in the schools in 1900. As of the late
1920s, the system had been diversified and expanded to the point that
upwards of eighty percent of each successive generation of native youth was
being comprehensively "acculturated" in a more-or-less uniform fashion."
http://www.zmag.org/ZMag/articles/jan98ward.htm
"According to many observers, the regimen of the schools usually included
getting Indians to dress, speak, and act like white people (see for example,
Whiteman, 1986)."
"At that time Indians were not U.S. citizens, and they lacked the right to
control their own lives and the education of their children (Eder & Reyhner,
1988; Whiteman, 1986).
://www.zmag.org/ZMag/articles/jan98ward.htm
"Indian Commissioner Thomas J. Morgan wrote in 1889 that "the Indians must
conform 'to the white man's ways,' peaceably if they will, forcibly if they
must." Many Indians began their education at this time in boarding schools,
often far from home, where they had their hair cut, where their native
clothes were replaced, and where they were often punished for speaking their
own languages (Whiteman, 1986)."
http://www.ed.gov/databases/ERIC_Digests/ed314228.html
While some Indian resistance was crushed by dramatic massacres, for the most
part it was subdued by a combination of disease, alcohol, food rationing,
the cooperation of Indian collaborators, and the theft of children for
boarding schools - a situation not radically unlike today.
http://www.cwis.org/fwdp/Americas/anti-ind.txt
Pictures:
http://content.lib.washington.edu/cgi-bin/pview.exe?CISOROOT=/loc&CISOPTR=18
27&CISORESTMP=/aipnw/search-templates/aipnw-results.html&CISOVIEWTMP=/aipnw/
search-templates/aipnw-view1.html&CISOCLICK=title:subjec
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
SandraDodd@... wrote:
In a message dated 5/22/01 6:36:32 PM, lurine@... writes:
<< There were no orphans or even a word for "orphan" in most
tribes. >>
There are lots of Indian language groups and cultures, some totally unrelated
to the rest, and I think this is too great a generalization to make.
I recieved a long, horribly abusive post from Lynda in private, berating me
for all manner of things, but I do want to say for the list that it would be
my preference that we talk about unschooling here, and stick to what we
personally have seen and know.
Unfounded statements like <<There were no orphans or even a word for "orphan"
in most tribes. >> don't serve to educate us, they are misinformation.
I don't think a private side-attack should be acceptable, but I had been
warned. Months ago I was told that Lynda had been asked to leave another
homeschooling discussion group because she would make unfounded statements
and attack those who asked for evidence. This has happened BIGTIME here, and
I no longer feel safe to post.
According to what I've received in private, all on the list agree with Lynda
that I'm evil. I seriously doubt that is true. Another undocumentable
statement with as much merit as some of the rest.
I could keep this secret so as not to disturb the peace, but I so object to
private attacks of this magnitude that I call on the group for defense.
For one example of many I will not make, "Four Corners" refers to a small
region of Utah, Colorado, Arizona and New Mexico. It doesn't extend to the
entire states by any means. I don't remember where Lynda lives, and she
won't tell me except for her having gone back through the archives and cited
message numbers. All I wanted were simple strai!") with the private response
to the same issue below it:
It wasn't that they used that phrase but more that it is pharse understood
today and works as a modern day explanation of how things were. Children
didn't "belong" to individual parents. Something that we hear so much
now--"Those are MY children" "I will raise them the way I want" etc., etc.
etc. More like children are chattel than small people that are a gift put
into our care to raise with love and consideration.
Children learned from all elders in a tribe. Children learned from whomever
was doing whatever it was that they needed/wanted to learn. The "village"
raised the child. There were no orphans or even a word for "orphan" in most
tribes.
Better explanation???
Lynda, who retains the title of CAM!!!
------------------------------------------
Subj: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Herd Instinct
Date: Tuesday, May 22, 2001 6:25:55 PM
From: lurine@...
To: SandraDodd@...
I have taken this off list as I don't participate in Flames on list. If you
want to post to the list, be sure you don't do anymore of your creative
editing!
Sandra the dictator sniped:
> In a message dated 5/22/01 11:23:12 AM Mountain Daylight Time,you
> lurine@... writes:
>
> > Nope, and speaking of misplaced, not unless you are now Sandra and
>an individual. I think that's the way things work best for many readers.
> Instead of "answering posts" how about we all discuss issues?
> I was criticized last week for quoting from three different posts in one
> response, but I was responding to the subject matter and the ideas, not to
I
am tired of having things directed at me personally, too. It's flattering
in
a being-stalked kind of way, but it's tiresome for me and absolutely
tireseome for other readers.
***Sandra, you really need to step back and take a look at how you respond
to
posts. Since the first post that I had the audacity to disagree with you
in,
you have used creative editing and sniped at anything and everything I have
had to say. I am not the only person who has noticed this. And, just like
the bottom portion of this/your post, you tell people what to do as though
you
own this list. Perhaps, it would be well for you to remember how to use
your delete key.
It is not directed to YOU personally but when one answers the subject matter
in a post, if it is addressed at any single person, it would be to the
person making statements that are being addressed. How in the world could
something be addressed to someone who was not the poster if the post was in
answer to a specific post.
> -=-A tizzy, I don't think so, just answering a post which was in defenseof a liar and a fraud. -=-
>thoughtfully,
> I did not defend a liar and a fraud. Please read carefully and
> and discuss issues philosophically instead of personally. I was defending***No actually, I think you need to reread your post. You went off on a
> fairness and calm.
tangent and decided that I had said and implied things that I didn't say or
imply. You ranted about not throwing out all that fool's work because of
one book. I addressed one book and said nor implied nothing that anyone but
you would take to mean people should not read any of his other books. Read
for content, you do remember that from college.
Though, having reread the post, perhaps the real problem was that the press
that printed the book came from NM and you felt you needed to defend them.
>***That is YOUR opinion, not a fact. The "fact" is that far too many people
> -=-. Quite frankly, real American Indians get tired of all
> the new-agers and all the bull that is out there from self-appointed
> "experts." The only calming that would be needed is when we get into a
> giggle fit over some of the comments folks make such as "my father's
> grandmother was a Cherokee princess." If they only knew what that phrase
> meant <<<bewg>>> Which, of course, being part Cherokee you would know,
> right?-=-
>
> This is antagonistic, unnecessarily.
"claim" to be part Cherokee. It is "in." It is also getting old, so we
have our little jokes about all the "Cherokee princesses" out there.
> There are full-blooded Indians who know very little of their own heritage.***Gee, whose fault would that be, I wonder.
> There are half and quarter who are fully active (I'm thinking Pueblos andhave
> Navajos, about whom I know more than other groups) in the
> community--ceremonials and dances and all. There are missionaries who
> lived three generations on the reservation who know a HUGE amount of the***To claim anything other than superficial "knowledge" is offensive. To
> history and culture and language.
>
> Knowledge doesn't come from ancestry.
"be"
Indian does take ancestory and no matter how "in" it becomes, no matter how
much new-age garbage one acquires, no matter how many Kachina dolls one
buys, one cannot "be" Indian!
>would share with her that this was not a true story.-=-
> -=-That great, I'm happy for your daughter. And hopefully her mother
>***As what I was replying to was.
> This, too, is sarcastic and insulting.
>she
> -=-And if, as you say, your mother "could live on a reservation," then
> would be an enrolled tribal member of one of the tribes that has aNation
> reservation and would have received a copy of the letter the Cherokee
> sent out about their thoughts on this movie, right?-=-***Yup, and rightly so. Far too many claims of being Cherokee. Where was
>
> Sarcasm.
your DEMAND for proof????
> -=-Gee, strange comment coming from a supposed unschooler since generally***Redeeming was not why the grin was there. It was there because I was.
> speaking they don't accept what is dished up as fact and are more inclined
> to search out the truth. But I guess from the snippy little comments, the
> "little needle" must have gotten close <g>-=-
>
> Rude sarcasm and the grin doesn't redeem it a bit.
>me, but the third is certainly not the best choice):
> Lynda, now this is direct, and I apologize. You have twice now ignored
> requests for documentation of details you have presented. Please answer
> these questions, or drop out of the discussion (or throw a fit and insult
***Did I miss something here? You are now List Mom and this is a moderated
list? And, when did you become psychic? The following was in reply to your
DEMAND that I give you sources. My scanner is down and I was waiting to
reply until I could send pictures that I personally own. But, here is the
list, just not in a neat order. You wanted it now, ya got it now.
Remember, you asked for it! No, actually, check the end of the post, it
won't fit here.
>***Repetitious. You have been on this list long enough to know the answer
> Where do you live?
to that
question. Even as resently as posts #17783, 18319, 18321, and 20812. Guess
the ps repetition thing is in evidence here.
> Are you "a real American Indian [getting tired of all the new-agers andall the bull...]?
***Asked and answered before, posts 14102 and 10029.
>How old are your children?***Asked and answered many times, but since your question was not specific,
would you like the birth children? the kidlets? the foster children? or
the "adopted" children? Please be precise.
> Have you always homeschooled?***Asked and answered before, many times! I first homeschooled in what is
now know as the unschooling fashion in the 60s. Nieces and nephews. The
oldest kidlets were semi-homeschooled and semi-ps'd. Internal family
politics caused this but it was always in a Frank Sinatra manner "our way."
> Are you an unschooler?***I don't "do" labels. I find folks that have to label things, well, the
subject line covers it. As best as can be described, we do what the kidlets
want when they want as long as it doesn't cause them harm (I wouldn't buy
the big kid chemistry set for the 9 yo when she was 5). Guess unschooling
will do, if you DEMAND a label.
>which are insulting and antagonistic?)
> Do you believe that lies are always bad? (Like fictionalized profiles
***Hey, I'm not the one that is the expert on what is or is not a lie. I am
not the one that loudly proclaims for one and all to hear that I have never
told a lie.
But, hey, if I am "fictionalizing" then I am in good company as many of the
Great! unschoolers and homeschooler also believe in "misinformation."
As precisely who did my misinformation insult or antagonise? The vast
majority of folks find it amusing, particularly the age thing. In fact,
other than you saying so, oh, and dear Kim (who loudly proclaimed you to be
a bitch also, least we forget), I've never found anyone insulted by it
besides trolls.
And, don't even go there if you are proposing to compare internet profiles
with writing a book (not a novel, the publisher later changing it doesn't
make it so) with the intent to defraud and make money off of that deception.
>would like to have the stats on my seemingly-dedicated detractor.
> I'm not being hypothetical in the least.
> We're spending a lot of time reading your long posts, and I would like to
> know how much merit they deserve. I have endured a lot of insult, and
***"We" know where the delete key is. "We" do not need to spend so much
time doing creative editing and sniping at posts that are in answer to
someone else's question.
You have "endured" pricisely that which you have put out. You have run many
folks off the list with your attacks. You have proclaimed yourself to be
the end all of expertise in unschooling. You have been rude, snide,
antagonistic and belligerent when anyone has the audacity to question your
expertise. You *demand* quotes, sources and references and have yet to
provide any for anything you have posted. You tell people on a routine
basis that if they don't like it they should find another list. You tell
people how to post and what is or is not acceptable (to whom, you?). Quite
frankly, you need to get a life!
Here it is, it is long but, remember, you asked for it:
O.K., this little game of creative editing and sniping really needs to stop.
Why, I just might have to stop giggling and LAYNWY!
Sandra rambled on creatively editing:
> In a message dated 5/20/01 9:42:00 PM, lurine@... writes:the
>
> << The term that Hilliary made so icky to some, "it takes a village" is
> basis for American Indian learning up until the advent of the U.S.***Duh! It doesn't say it is an American Indian quote. I said it is the
> government passing laws stating that Indians were not humans and had no
> rights given to humans. >>
>
> I didn't think it was an American Indian quote.
basis or, if one prefers, the philosophy of the American Indian as regarded
learning prior to the murderous white thieves coming to this continent.
They believed that a child learned from the whole tribe and family, that
they learned by doing, that they learned by listening to the elders.
> I thought it was African. Can anyone confirm or deny?***Creative editing again! ~~sigh~~ It IS getting soooo boring! (Using my
>
> <<This was used to remove all Indian children from
> their homes and ship them off to boarding schools where the worst of the
> worse parts of the Prussian model were practiced. >>
>
> This is not so. "It takes a village" was not ANY justification for taking
> kids to boarding schools.
best imitation of a valley girl <g>) I said the laws that were passed that
declared the American Indian not to be human was why they were sent to
boarding schools. Ya know, "barbarians," and "animals" were two of their
favorite adjectives.
"In the difference of language to-day lies two-thirds of our trouble. . . .
Schools should be established, which children should be required to attend;
their barbarous dialect should be blotted out and the English language
substituted. (Report of the Indian Peace Commissioners, 1868, pp. 16-17)"
"how easy it would be to assimilate Indians into the general population by
giving them a white man's education for a few years in a boarding school
(Hoxie, 1984)."
"if there were a sufficient number of reservation boarding-school-buildings
to accommodate all the Indian children of school age, and these building
could be filled and kept filled with Indian pupils, the Indian problem would
be solved within the school age of the Indian child now six years old.
(Oberly, 1885, cxiii)"
"English language only must be taught the Indian youth placed there for
educational and industrial training at the expense of the Government. If
Dakota or any other language is taught such children, they will be taken
away. (Atkins, 1887, p. xxi)"
"Every nation is jealous of its own language, and no nation ought to be more
so than ours, which approaches nearer than any other nationality to the
perfect protection of its people. True Americans all feel that the
Constitution, laws, and institutions of the United States, in their
adaptation to the wants and requirements of man, are superior to those of
any other country; and they should understand that by the spread of the
English language will these laws and institutions be more firmly established
a nd widely disseminated. Nothing so surely and perfectly stamps upon an
individual a national characteristic as language. . . . [As the Indians] are
in an English-speaking country, they must be taught the language which they
must use in transacting business with the people of this country. Atkins,
1887, pp. xxi-xxiii)"
"All instruction shall be in the English language. Pupils shall be required
to converse with employees and each other in English. All school employees
must be able to speak English fluently. (Rules for Indian Schools, 1898, p.
25)"
>boarding schools wore white uniforms is simply to supply misinformation.
> <<They were all given
> Buster Brown haircuts (boys and girls) and dressed in white uniforms. >>
>
> Perhaps in one school you know of. To make a claim like all Indian
And to
claim that they cut the hair of all the girls is false. Boys, most likely.
> I live where there were still Indian schools very lately (still might beSt.
> Katherines' in Santa Fe, but if so, haircutting even for boys is long,long gone), and what you've written is not applicable.
***One of the most racist states in the union! And, yes it was applicable
to your state! The children were removed from the reservation or sent to
missionary schools on the reservation. They were forced to learn English
and were punished for not doing so. Physically punished! You do realise
that NM is part of Four Corners, don't you or will you claim that the
following
quote can't possibly apply to NM. I mean, one of the worst was in your
hometown.
"Kluckhohn and Leighton reported that 95% of Navajo children "went home
rather than to white communities, after leaving school, only to find
themselves handicapped for taking part in Navajo life because they did not
know the techniques and customs of their own people" (1962, p. 141)."
"In an introductory heading to a 1923 Current History article on "America's
Treatment of Her Indians," Collier (1923) declared that "the administration
of Indian affairs [is] a national disgrace -- A policy designed to rob
Indians of their property, destroy their culture and eventually exterminate
them" (p. 771, emphasis in original)."
>practicing
> << They were denied their language and religion and punished for
either.>>
>speaking LOTS of languages even until lately, and probably even today in
> That is true, but that's was also true in public schools of children
some
places.
***Get a grip. Failing grades do not even vaguely compare to being
physically punished, denied parental visits, being denied meals or any of
the various other punishments inflicted on these children!
>to attend church run schools on the reservations. Same haircuts and
> <<Those children that were not shipped off to boarding schools were forced
uniforms
> were required. The treatment was brutal because it was "o.k." to beat and***Congress, first person reports, first hand information, relatives,
> torture Indian children because they weren't "human.">>
>
> Where are you getting this information?
working for Title III, Title V, Title IX and JOM!
"Regardless of the school system they are in, Navajo students find
themselves in an environment controlled and dominated by non-Indians. Most
of the teachers and administrators in reservation schools are Anglo [white].
Public school boards of education are dominated by non-Indians and those few
Indians who do serve wield little authority. Parent advisory boards are the
BIA school equivalent of a board of education; while these are all Indian,
their function is only advisory and they are essentially powerless.
Navajos, in fact, have been excluded from the decision-making process in
these school systems. The result has been a variety of education policies
unrelated to the Navajo community. The Navajo language and culture have been
largely ignored in the curriculum offered to Navajo students. (United
States, 1975, pp. 126-127)"
"Enforcement of the English-only regulations was usually strict. Lawrence
Horn, a Blackfeet, who attended the government school at Heart Butte,
recalled students getting a stroke of a leather strap with holes in it every
time they spoke Indian (Parsons, 1980). "
>then denied saying it.
> Last time I asked for resources you said you had classified sources and
***You were given some sources but you wanted to be spoon fed. You were not
given all sources/links because you cannot get there.
>***Unless you can prove otherwise, I would think you would be wise to not
> Please, please--tell what is true or don't tell anything.
imply that someone else is lying! Twisting and creative editing of posts is
a form of LYING!
>for the answer....>>
> <<Which does not exactly answer your question but gives you a foundation
>***If, and that's a mighty big IF, I had been answering a question from
> Answers should be founded in documentable truth when possible, and direct
> account when possible. Sources and quotes, please.
*you*, I would have been sure to quote the h*ll out of everything and
anything available. However, I wasn't. I was answering a question directed
at me. Not a general question but one that referred to my *opinion* about
the general acceptance of Prussian type education. However, I have given
you a long list of references and have included, in this post, many, many
quotes and sources. Enjoy!
> I'm not questioning the evils of Indian schools. I'm questioning your***Yes indeedy, you are AGAIN questioning me or any assertion that I may
> assertion of details as thought there was one overall model of boarding
> school, or one overall group of Indians.
make. Everyone on the list has noticed it, btw.
Further, there was one over all model and it was the Carlisle school and
government regulation. Again you speak as an authority about something you
know absolutely nothing about!
"The model for what became an entire system was the Carlisle Indian School,
established in Pennsylvania in 1875 by Captain Richard Henry Pratt, a man
whose main qualification for the task seems to have been that he'd earlier
served as warden of a military prison at Fort Marion, Florida. Following
Pratt's stated objective of "killing the Indian" in each student, Carlisle
and other such facilities-Chilocco, Albuquerque, Phoenix, Haskell,
Riverside; by 1902, there were two-dozen of thern-systematically
"deculturated" their pupils. Children brought to the schools as young as age
six were denied most or all direct contact with their families and societies
for years on end. They were shorn of their hair and required to dress in the
manner of Euro-America, forbidden to speak their languages or practice their
religions, prevented from learning their own histories or being in any other
way socialized among their own people.
Individual native families and, often, whole societies resisted the process.
In 1891, and again in 1893, Congress authorized the use of police, troops
and other forcible means to compel the transfer of children from reservation
to boarding school, and to keep them there once they'd arrived. Hence,
despite the best efforts of their elders, and not infrequently of the
students themselves, a total of 21,568 indigenous children--about a third of
the targeted age group-were confined in the schools in 1900. As of the late
1920s, the system had been diversified and expanded to the point that
upwards of eighty percent of each successive generation of native youth was
being comprehensively "acculturated" in a more-or-less uniform fashion."
http://www.zmag.org/ZMag/articles/jan98ward.htm
>***Here's a few more references to keep a ps teacher's soul happy and busy:
Abbott, F. H. (1915). The administration of Indian affairs in Canada.
Washington, DC: U.S. Government Printing Office.
Annual report of the board of Indian commissioners. (1869-1933). Washington:
U.S. Government Printing Office.
Atkins, J.D.C. (1887). Annual report of the commissioner of Indian affairs
to the secretary of the interior for the year 1887. Washington: Government
Printing Office.
Baron, D. (1990). The English-only question: An official language for
Americans? New Haven, CT: Yale University.
Bartlett, S. C. (1887, October 6). The Ruling of the Indian Bureau. The
Independent, 39(2027), pp. 1254-1255.
Bennett, W. J. (1986). First lessons: A report on elementary education in
America. Washington, DC: U.S. Department of Education.
Brown, E. A. (1952). Stubborn fool: A narrative. Caldwell, ID: Caxton.
Butler, N. M. (Ed.) (1910). Education and the Indian. In Education in the
United States. New York: American Book Co.
Collier, J. (1923, March). Our Indian policy. Sunset Magazine, 13-15 &
89-93.
Collier, J. (1923, August). America's treatment of her Indians. Current
History, 771-778.
Crawford, J. (1990). Language freedom and restriction: A historical approach
to the official language controversy. In J. Reyhner (Ed.), Effective
language education practices and native language survival (pp. 9-22).
Choctaw, OK: Native American Language Issues.
Deloria, Jr., V. (1990). Traditional education in the world. Winds of
Change, 5(10), 13 & 16-18.
Deyhle, D. (1989). Pushouts and pullouts: Navajo and Ute school leavers.
Journal of Navajo Education, 6(2), 36-51.
Eder, J., & Reyhner, J. (1988). The historical background of Indian
education. In J. Reyhner (Ed.), Teaching the Indian child: A
bilingual/multicultural approach (pp. 29-54). Billings, MT: Eastern Montana
College.
Editorial. (1874, January). IAPI OAYE, 3(1), 1874, p. 4.
Editorial. (1990). Education, 10, 449-453.
Fuchs, E., & Havighurst, R. J. [1972] 1983. To live on this earth: American
Indian education. Albuquerque, NM: University of New Mexico.
Goodale, E. (1891). Self-teaching in the Indian schools. Educational Review,
1, pp. 57-59.
Hakuta, K., & Pease-Alvarez, L. (Eds.). (1992). Special issue on bilingual
education. Educational Researcher, 21(2), 1-47.
Hawkins, J. E. (1971). Forward. In Bilingual education for American Indians
(Curriculum Bulletin No. 3). Washington, DC: Office of Education Programs,
BIA.
Hinman, S.D. (1869). Journal of the Rev. S.D. Hinman missionary to the
Santee Sioux Indians. Philadelphia: McCalla & Stavely.
Hopkins, S. W. (1883). Life among the Piutes: Their wrongs and claims,
edited by Mrs. Horace Mann. Boston: Cupples, Upham & Co.
Howard, O. O. (1907). My life and experiences among our hostile Indians.
Hartford, CN: A.T. Worthington.
Hoxie, F.E. (1984). A final promise: The campaign to assimilate the Indians,
1880-1920. Lincoln: University of Nebraska.
Indian education: Americas unpaid debt. (1982). Washington, DC: U.S.
Government Printing Office. (The eighth annual report to the Congress of the
United States by the National Advisory Council on Indian Education).
Kluckhohn, C., & Leighton, D. (1962). The Navaho, revised edition. New York:
Doubleday.
Kneale, A. H. (1950). Indian agent. Caldwell, ID: Caxton.
Latham, G. I. (1989). Thirteen most common needs of American Indian
education in BIA schools. Journal of American Indian Education, 29(1), 1-11.
Layman, M. E. (1942). A history of Indian education. Unpublished Doctoral
Dissertation, University of Minnesota.
Leap, W.L. (1982). Roles for the linguist in Indian bilingual education. In
R. St. Clair & W. Leap (Eds.), Language renewal among American Indian
tribes: Issues, problems, and prospects (pp. 19-30). Rosslyn, VI: National
Clearinghouse for Bi lingual Education.
Littlebear, D. (1990). Keynote address: Effective language education
practices and native language survival. In J. Reyhner (Ed.), Effective
language education practices and native language survival (pp. 1-8).
Choctaw, OK: Native American Language Issues.
Meriam, L. (Ed.) (1928). The problem of Indian administration. Baltimore:
John Hopkins.
Nader, R. (1969). "Statement of Ralph Nader, author, Lecturer." Indian
Education, 1969, pt. 1, 47-55. Hearings before the subcommittee on Indian
Education of the Committee on Labor and Public Welfare. U.S. Senate, 91st
Cong., 1st sess. Washington, D.C.: Government Printing Office.
Native American Languages Act of 1990, 104, 25 U.S.C. 2901-2906.
Navajo Division of Education. (1985). Navajo Nation: Educational policies.
Window Rock, AZ: Navajo Division of Education.
North, I. (1891). as quoted in The Word Carrier, 20(5), 10-11.
Northern Ute Tribe. 1985. Ute language policy. Cultural Survival Quarterly,
9(2), 16-19.
Office of Indian Education Programs, Bureau of Indian Affairs, U.S.
Department of the Interior. (1988). Report on BIA education: Excellence in
Indian education the effective school process (Final review draft).
Washington, DC: Author. (ERIC Document Reproduction Service No. ED 297 899)
Office of Inspector General, U.S. Department of the Interior. (1991). Audit
report: Implementation of the education amendments of 1978, Bureau of Indian
Affairs. Washington, DC: Author. (Report No. 91-I-941)
Oberly, J. H. (1885). In Annual report of the commissioner of Indian affairs
to the secretary of the interior for the year 1885, lxxv-ccxxv. Washington:
Government Printing Office.
Parsons, J. (1980). The educational movement of the Blackfeet Indians
1840-1979. Browning, MT: Blackfeet Heritage Program.
Pascua Yaqui Tribal Council. (1984). Yaqui language policy for the Pascua
Yaqui Tribe: Policy declaration. Tucson, AZ: Tucson Unified School District.
Platero Paperwork, Inc. (1986). Executive summary: Navajo area student
dropout study. Window Rock, AZ: Navajo Nation, Navajo Division of Education.
Pond, Jr., S.W. (1893). Two volunteer missionaries among the Dakotas or the
story of the labors of Samuel W. and Gideon H. Pond. Boston: Congregational
Sunday-School and Publishing Society.
Porter, R. P. (1990). Forked tongue: The politics of bilingual education.
New York: Basic Books.
Prucha, F. P. (1973). Americanizing the American Indians. Cambridge, MA:
Harvard University.
Reyhner, J. (1990). A description of the Rock Point Community School
bilingual education program. In J. Reyhner (Ed.). Effective language
education practices and native language survival (pp. 95-106). Choctaw, OK:
Native American Language Issues .
Reyhner, J. (Ed.). (1988). Teaching the Indian child: A
bilingual/multicultural approach. Billings, MT: Eastern Montana College.
(ERIC Document Reproduction Service No. 301 372)
Reyhner, J., & Eder, J. (1989). A history of Indian education. Billings, MT:
Eastern Montana College. (ERIC Document Reproduction Service No. 321 953)
Report of Indian Peace Commissioners. (1868, January 7). House of
Representatives, 40th Congress, 2nd Session, Executive Document No. 97.
(Serial Set, 1337, Vol. 11, No. 97).
Riggs, S. R. (1880). Mary and I: Forty years with the Sioux. Chicago: W.G.
Holmes.
Riggs, S. R., & Pond, G. H. (1839). The Dakota first reading Book.
Cincinnati: Kendall and Henry Printers.
Riggs, M. B. (1928). Early days at Santee: The beginnings of Santee Normal
Training School founded by Dr. and Mrs. A.L. Riggs in 1870. Santee, NE:
Santee N.T.S.
Rules for the Indian schools. (1898). Washington: Government Printing
Office.
Special Subcommittee on Indian Education, Senate Committee on Labor and
Public Welfare. (1969). Indian education: A national tragedy, a national
challenge. (Senate Report 91-501 -- Commonly known as the Kennedy Report)
Standing Bear, L. (1928). My people the Sioux, edited by E. A. Brininstool.
Boston: Houghton Mifflin.
Suina, J. H. (1988). When I went to school. In R. Cocking & J. P.Mestre
(Eds.), Linguistic and cultural influences on learning mathematics (pp.
295-299). Hillsdale, N.J.: Lawrence Erlbaum Associates.
Szasz, M. C. (1988). Indian education in the American colonies, 1607-1783.
Albuquerque: University of New Mexico.
Szasz, M. C. (1977). Education and the American Indian: The road to
self-determination since 1928, 2nd ed. Albuquerque: University of New
Mexico.
Task Force Five: Indian Education. (1976). Report on Indian education: Final
report to the American Indian Policy Review Commission. Washington, DC: U.S.
Government Printing Office.
Thompson, H. (1975). The Navajos' long walk for education: A history of
Navajo education. Tsaile, AZ: Navajo Community College.
United States Commission on Civil Rights. (1975, September). The Navajo
Nation: An American colony. Washington, DC: Author.
Wax, M. L. (1971). Indian Americans: Unity and diversity. Englewood Cliffs,
NJ: Prentice-Hall.
http://libweb.princeton.edu:2003/libraries/firestone/rbsc/finding_aids/aaia/
aaia.html
http://www.nross.com/namohist.htm#volume2 (tape with boarding school first
person narrative)
***And just incase that isn't enough, here's a bucket more:
Punishment:
Two of our girls ran away...but they got caught. They tied their legs up,
tied their hands behind their backs, put them in the middle of the hallway
so that if they fell, fell asleep or something, the matron would hear them
and she'd get out there and whip them and make them stand up again. (Helma
Ward, Makah, interview with Carolyn Marr)
"The placement of North American Indian youngsters in residential boarding
schools - and the abusive treatment they received there - is a part of our
history that is seldom talked about."
http://staff.lib.muohio.edu/nawpa/manuelHaskell.html
"Its effects, they say, were more devastating than the sexual assaults and
beatings that occurred in at least some of the 125 Indian Residential
Schools from the mid-19th century until the 1970s."
http://www.vanessascollection.com/main/2000/9-24indian.html
Through the Eyes of a Basketweaver
Creation Section
Dir., photo dir.: Vern Korb
Documentary. While she weaves her baskets according to traditional
techniques of the Hupa, Yurok and Karuk nations, Vivien Hailstone re-weaves
the historical and cultural background of these Northern California peoples.
She tells of the near disappearance of this art when, as a young girl in a
boarding school, she was forbidden to express her heritage, either through
her language or the practice of a craft passed on by her grandmother.
"Also, beginning in the 1880s, boarding schools were established, resulting
in the forced separation of children from their families. Language Loss and
Revitalization in California , By Leanne Hinton, Department of Linguistics,
University of California, Berkeley"
"Like many of our parents and grandparents, he was sent to a boarding school
and punished for using his language. People of the Seventh Fire by Dagmar
Thorpe"
"Boarding Schools or Concentration Camps? The end of the Gold Rush era
signaled a change in U.S. policy towards Native people. Instead of directly
killing California indigenous people, reservations were created and
indigenous people were re-located to them. The children were taken, often by
force, away from their parents and to far-away re-education centers.
Children as young as four attended these re-education centers. They were
forced to cut their hair and give up their clothing upon arrival.
Children could not have visitors, including their parents, while they stayed
at the centers. Some children stayed for years at a time. Indian children
were often farmed out as free labor to white settlers in boarding school
communities, and sometimes sold outright at auctions held by boarding school
teachers." http://www.originalvoices.org/USGovtRolesSix.htm
"You know how I was raised? In a boarding school, being slapped across the
face, beaten for being an Indian, feeling ashamed of the color of my skin."
Sweet Tears and Bitter Pills, Mariana Kawall Leal Ferreira.
"The model for what became an entire system was the Carlisle Indian School,
established in Pennsylvania in 1875 by Captain Richard Henry Pratt, a man
whose main qualification for the task seems to have been that he'd earlier
served as warden of a military prison at Fort Marion, Florida. Following
Pratt's stated objective of "killing the Indian" in each student, Carlisle
and other such facilities-Chilocco, Albuquerque, Phoenix, Haskell,
Riverside; by 1902, there were two-dozen of thern-systematically
"deculturated" their pupils. Children brought to the schools as young as age
six were denied most or all direct contact with their families and societies
for years on end. They were shorn of their hair and required to dress in the
manner of Euro-America, forbidden to speak their languages or practice their
religions, prevented from learning their own histories or being in any other
way socialized among their own people.
Individual native families and, often, whole societies resisted the process.
In 1891, and again in 1893, Congress authorized the use of police, troops
and other forcible means to compel the transfer of children from reservation
to boarding school, and to keep them there once they'd arrived. Hence,
despite the best efforts of their elders, and not infrequently of the
students themselves, a total of 21,568 indigenous children--about a third of
the targeted age group-were confined in the schools in 1900. As of the late
1920s, the system had been diversified and expanded to the point that
upwards of eighty percent of each successive generation of native youth was
being comprehensively "acculturated" in a more-or-less uniform fashion."
http://www.zmag.org/ZMag/articles/jan98ward.htm
"According to many observers, the regimen of the schools usually included
getting Indians to dress, speak, and act like white people (see for example,
Whiteman, 1986)."
"At that time Indians were not U.S. citizens, and they lacked the right to
control their own lives and the education of their children (Eder & Reyhner,
1988; Whiteman, 1986).
://www.zmag.org/ZMag/articles/jan98ward.htm
"Indian Commissioner Thomas J. Morgan wrote in 1889 that "the Indians must
conform 'to the white man's ways,' peaceably if they will, forcibly if they
must." Many Indians began their education at this time in boarding schools,
often far from home, where they had their hair cut, where their native
clothes were replaced, and where they were often punished for speaking their
own languages (Whiteman, 1986)."
http://www.ed.gov/databases/ERIC_Digests/ed314228.html
While some Indian resistance was crushed by dramatic massacres, for the most
part it was subdued by a combination of disease, alcohol, food rationing,
the cooperation of Indian collaborators, and the theft of children for
boarding schools - a situation not radically unlike today.
http://www.cwis.org/fwdp/Americas/anti-ind.txt
Pictures:
http://content.lib.washington.edu/cgi-bin/pview.exe?CISOROOT=/loc&CISOPTR=18
27&CISORESTMP=/aipnw/search-templates/aipnw-results.html&CISOVIEWTMP=/aipnw/
search-templates/aipnw-view1.html&CISOCLICK=title:subjec
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<< Some things don't dignify a response >>
But that's what teachers say about bullies in school. "Just ignore them and
they'll stop."
On the other hand perhaps there is no way to stop a bully whatsoever, and
those afflicted with being picked on have to just endure it like a disease
and not complain to others around them. Suffer with dignity and all...
Is it ever appropriate to ask bullies to stop?
Sandra
But that's what teachers say about bullies in school. "Just ignore them and
they'll stop."
On the other hand perhaps there is no way to stop a bully whatsoever, and
those afflicted with being picked on have to just endure it like a disease
and not complain to others around them. Suffer with dignity and all...
Is it ever appropriate to ask bullies to stop?
Sandra
Stephanie Currier
Sandra>>According to what I've received in private, all on the list agree
with Lynda
that I'm evil. I seriously doubt that is true. Another undocumentable
statement with as much merit as some of the rest>>>
Your insincts are way on-target here, Sandra.
Not only do I not think
you are evil, but I'm profoundly grateful that you continue to post. I've
often been
baffled that people target you so personally, having seen this happen at
different points over
the last few years.
Though I must say that was a particularly horrible letter. Sad to see useful
discussions get
sidetracked by outright meanness.
Steph
with Lynda
that I'm evil. I seriously doubt that is true. Another undocumentable
statement with as much merit as some of the rest>>>
Your insincts are way on-target here, Sandra.
Not only do I not think
you are evil, but I'm profoundly grateful that you continue to post. I've
often been
baffled that people target you so personally, having seen this happen at
different points over
the last few years.
Though I must say that was a particularly horrible letter. Sad to see useful
discussions get
sidetracked by outright meanness.
Steph
Betsy Hill
>According to what I've received in private, all on the list agree withLynda
>that I'm evil. I seriously doubt that is true. Another undocumentableAll sentences that start with the word "all" are most probably untrue.
>statement with as much merit as some of the rest.
(Including this one.)
Betsy
Kim Baker
Lynda wrote: in referring to Sandra!
oh, and dear Kim (who
loudly proclaimed you to be a bitch also, least
we forget)
Just wanted to make sure the record was straight
here!!!!!! It was not this Kim that made any
such a claim! Thank you!
=====
Kim - Missouri MOM of Dylan(11) Jacob(10) Noah(21 mos)
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices
http://auctions.yahoo.com/
oh, and dear Kim (who
loudly proclaimed you to be a bitch also, least
we forget)
Just wanted to make sure the record was straight
here!!!!!! It was not this Kim that made any
such a claim! Thank you!
=====
Kim - Missouri MOM of Dylan(11) Jacob(10) Noah(21 mos)
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices
http://auctions.yahoo.com/