Johanna

I found the quote. Here it is in case anyone else wants to reference it



"It only takes about 50 contact hours to transmit basic literacy and math skills well enough that kids can be self-teachers from then on. The cry for 'basic skills' practice is a smokescreen behind which schools pre-empt the time of children for twelve years... after 26 years of teaching, I must conclude that one of the only alternatives on the horizon for most families is to teach their own children at home."

John Taylor Gatto, New York State Teacher of the Year, 1991, author, Dumbing Us Down, The Hidden Curriculum of Compulsory Schools, in The Whole Earth Review.

Johanna
Life is the ultimate learning experience!


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Tammy Graves

Has anyone tried to tie this in with any adult that is illiterate? I mean, the
news media and ps and such are always crying that more and more children and
adults are illiterate these days. If it is reasonable to say that you can
transmit basic literacy and math skills within about 50 hours, why are there so
many illiterate adults out there? Do they just not want to learn? I am in total
agreement with everything everyone has stated about late reading, but this just
popped into my mind. This is not a condemning question.



I found the quote. Here it is in case anyone else wants to reference it



"It only takes about 50 contact hours to transmit basic literacy and math skills
well enough that kids can be self-teachers from then on. The cry for 'basic
skills' practice is a smokescreen behind which schools pre-empt the time of
children for twelve years... after 26 years of teaching, I must conclude that
one of the only alternatives on the horizon for most families is to teach their
own children at home."

John Taylor Gatto, New York State Teacher of the Year, 1991, author, Dumbing Us
Down, The Hidden Curriculum of Compulsory Schools, in The Whole Earth Review.

Johanna
Life is the ultimate learning experience!


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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Johanna

personal experience:
my sister was labeled dyslexic and pushed through school. She dropped out at sixteen. She was functionally illiterate until the age of 22 when a friend helped her learn to read. It took her about two months of occasional lessons for her to learn to read. After that all it took was time spent reading for her to reach an adult level of reading ability.
Johanna
Life is the ultimate learning experience!
----- Original Message -----
From: Tammy Graves
To: [email protected]
Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2001 9:52 AM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] basic skills


Has anyone tried to tie this in with any adult that is illiterate? I mean, the
news media and ps and such are always crying that more and more children and
adults are illiterate these days. If it is reasonable to say that you can
transmit basic literacy and math skills within about 50 hours, why are there so
many illiterate adults out there? Do they just not want to learn? I am in total
agreement with everything everyone has stated about late reading, but this just
popped into my mind. This is not a condemning question.



I found the quote. Here it is in case anyone else wants to reference it



"It only takes about 50 contact hours to transmit basic literacy and math skills
well enough that kids can be self-teachers from then on. The cry for 'basic
skills' practice is a smokescreen behind which schools pre-empt the time of
children for twelve years... after 26 years of teaching, I must conclude that
one of the only alternatives on the horizon for most families is to teach their
own children at home."

John Taylor Gatto, New York State Teacher of the Year, 1991, author, Dumbing Us
Down, The Hidden Curriculum of Compulsory Schools, in The Whole Earth Review.

Johanna
Life is the ultimate learning experience!


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

An illiterate adult often has so much "garbage" from having been labeled in
school that more time is spent teaching him/her that they CAN learn to read
then actually teaching reading skills.

No, I don't have references to cite.

:-) Diane

> Has anyone tried to tie this in with any adult that is illiterate? I
mean,
> the
> news media and ps and such are always crying that more and more children
> and
> adults are illiterate these days. If it is reasonable to say that you can
> transmit basic literacy and math skills within about 50 hours, why are
> there so
> many illiterate adults out there? Do they just not want to learn? I am
in
> total
> agreement with everything everyone has stated about late reading, but
this
> just
> popped into my mind. This is not a condemning question.

LisaBugg

----- Original Message -----
From: <cen46624@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2001 5:45 PM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] basic skills


> An illiterate adult often has so much "garbage" from having been labeled
in
> school that more time is spent teaching him/her that they CAN learn to
read
> then actually teaching reading skills.
>
> No, I don't have references to cite.

One painful year I was a teacher's aide for 7th and 8th grade special
education students, along with 2 7th/8th grade WhizKid Latin classes.
There was this absolutely gorgeous child, a young boy, in the special ed
class who I worked with for 6 weeks trying to get him to learn to read. (not
to read, but to attempt learning to read) He kept saying, "Miss Lisa I
can't learn to read." I kept saying YES YOU CAN, if you just stop telling me
you CAN'T. He would listen to me and then say, "I can't learn to read."
One day I sort of lost it and spent 30 minutes telling him that he didn't
have to listen to everything ever teacher ever said that he could to learn,
he just hadn't YET.... but there were tons of things to do to learn about
words and reading and making sense of stuff. He just shook his head. He'd
already learned that one lesson.......


that he couldn't learn

and that was that.

The special education teacher agreed with the child.

Diana Tashjian

That reminded me of when I was in high school (many, many, *many* years ago!) Somehow I ended up tutoring a younger high schooler in math and now I remember that her problem was really that she didn't *think* she could understand and so never really tried. Once I convinced her to *try* and she discovered that she *could* understand some of it, it increased her confidence tremendously and her grade went from D's and F's to A's and B's! It was amazing and really had nothing to do with what I could offer *math"-wise...

Diana Tashjian
----- Original Message -----
From: LisaBugg
<snip>
One painful year I was a teacher's aide for 7th and 8th grade special
education students, along with 2 7th/8th grade WhizKid Latin classes.
There was this absolutely gorgeous child, a young boy, in the special ed
class who I worked with for 6 weeks trying to get him to learn to read. (not
to read, but to attempt learning to read) He kept saying, "Miss Lisa I
can't learn to read." I kept saying YES YOU CAN, if you just stop telling me
you CAN'T. He would listen to me and then say, "I can't learn to read."
One day I sort of lost it and spent 30 minutes telling him that he didn't
have to listen to everything ever teacher ever said that he could to learn,
he just hadn't YET.... but there were tons of things to do to learn about
words and reading and making sense of stuff. He just shook his head. He'd
already learned that one lesson.......


that he couldn't learn

and that was that.

The special education teacher agreed with the child.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sharon Rudd

Diana......you have a gift.....how wonderful you could
share it when you were so young!

By telling us about it in the selfless way that you
did you gave us all an insight into how people learn.
There has to be an awareness that learning actually
can take place!

Thanks
Sharon

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Diana Tashjian

Thank you, Sharon. That was a very nice thing to say! BTW, I wanted to thank you off-list but I don't know how - I've heard people talking about "taking it off-list" - do they have to exchange private email addresses to do this?

Thanks,
Diana Tashjian


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

...And they learn it quick, too, sometimes. My mom taught special ed in
elementary school, and she said the biggest part of her job was convincing
the kids they *could* learn. :-( And these were often 2nd or 3rd graders,
too. :-(

:-) Diane

> He'd
> already learned that one lesson.......
>
>
> that he couldn't learn
>
> and that was that.

[email protected]

One of the more frustrating interactions I've had was when a young teen was
asking for help/complaining about math and her mom came in and said, "Oh
you'll never be any good in math--I never was." So the girl quit asking.

:-) Diane


> That reminded me of when I was in high school (many, many, *many* years
ago!)
> Somehow I ended up tutoring a younger high schooler in math and now I
> remember that her problem was really that she didn't *think* she could
> understand and so never really tried. Once I convinced her to *try* and she
> discovered that she *could* understand some of it, it increased her
> confidence tremendously and her grade went from D's and F's to A's and B's!
> It was amazing and really had nothing to do with what I could offer *math"-
> wise...

Tami Labig-Duquette

Same thing happened to me and I'm not! Well, maybe, :) I can double, triple
a recipe, I am also a carpenter so yeah I do use math, come to think of it,
my teacher was crabby! LOL
Tami


>From: cen46624@...
>Reply-To: [email protected]
>To: [email protected]
>Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] basic skills
>Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 23:21:38 EDT
>
>One of the more frustrating interactions I've had was when a young teen was
>asking for help/complaining about math and her mom came in and said, "Oh
>you'll never be any good in math--I never was." So the girl quit asking.
>
>:-) Diane
>
>
> > That reminded me of when I was in high school (many, many, *many* years
>ago!)
> > Somehow I ended up tutoring a younger high schooler in math and now I
> > remember that her problem was really that she didn't *think* she could
> > understand and so never really tried. Once I convinced her to *try* and
>she
> > discovered that she *could* understand some of it, it increased her
> > confidence tremendously and her grade went from D's and F's to A's and
>B's!
> > It was amazing and really had nothing to do with what I could offer
>*math"-
> > wise...

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

[email protected]

Yeah, see? You can DO stuff, just not stuff that has the LABEL "math" because
then it's sort of blocked. But your self-image, after all this time, says
you're not math proficient until you stop and look at it.

BUT, and this is the kicker here, you do stop and look at it!

:-) Diane

> Same thing happened to me and I'm not! Well, maybe, :) I can double, triple
> a recipe, I am also a carpenter so yeah I do use math, come to think of
it,
> my teacher was crabby! LOL
> Tami

[email protected]

In a message dated 5/23/01 5:54:21 PM, LisaBugg@... writes:

<< He just shook his head. He'd
already learned that one lesson.......


that he couldn't learn

and that was that.

The special education teacher agreed with the child. >>

I worked with one boy who, at the age of 13, in 7th grade, asked me to help
him learn to read. I was his reading teacher. That's a story I don't even
want to think about. But I offered to work with him. Not one trick I knew
helped one tiny bit. I truly think that in the same way some kids cannot and
will never match a musical tone, and some kids cannot and never once ever
will catch a ball, that this one kid (who was a nice human) could not learn
to read.

It is also very possible that three or five years later, something in him
changed and he could. But in that season of his life, with someone calmly
and in friendly-fashion trying to help, not one dent was made in his
inability to recognize a word he had just seen.

I remember him picking a book to work on, listed at 2nd grade level (again, I
shudder at memories...) and it was a pretty cool version of the Three Billy
Goats Gruff.

The word "goat" was never once recognized or sounded out, no matter how many
times it appeared on the same page.

Now with more experience I would *maybe* have come up with another two or
three ideas to try, but it could possibly have been some physical/biochemical
reality.

Sandra

Debra Bures

<<Subject: Re: basic skills

<One of the more frustrating interactions I've had was when a young <teen was
<asking for help/complaining about math and her mom came in and <said, "Oh
<you'll never be any good in math--I never was." So the girl quit asking.

<:-) Diane
I hada similar experience in high school. I truly did not understand algebra2 in the way it was being taught--(not quite sure just why I took it--it was of no interest to me). I got a D in the class. My dad wanted me to ask the teacher for help. I refused--the teacher constantly belittled kids and some cried. I refused to be treated that way. Shortly before this, I had realized that what I was doing in school was irrelevant--that there was a whole world to explore--out of the box.
Debra Bures


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Johanna

that must have broke your heart to see the child self condemned by all the lies he had been told. Our words have the power to help and heal or to hurt and damage. i hope my words will be the first and not the latter.
Johanna
Life is the ultimate learning experience!
----- Original Message -----
From: LisaBugg
To: [email protected]
Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2001 6:31 PM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] basic skills



----- Original Message -----
From: <cen46624@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2001 5:45 PM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] basic skills


> An illiterate adult often has so much "garbage" from having been labeled
in
> school that more time is spent teaching him/her that they CAN learn to
read
> then actually teaching reading skills.
>
> No, I don't have references to cite.

One painful year I was a teacher's aide for 7th and 8th grade special
education students, along with 2 7th/8th grade WhizKid Latin classes.
There was this absolutely gorgeous child, a young boy, in the special ed
class who I worked with for 6 weeks trying to get him to learn to read. (not
to read, but to attempt learning to read) He kept saying, "Miss Lisa I
can't learn to read." I kept saying YES YOU CAN, if you just stop telling me
you CAN'T. He would listen to me and then say, "I can't learn to read."
One day I sort of lost it and spent 30 minutes telling him that he didn't
have to listen to everything ever teacher ever said that he could to learn,
he just hadn't YET.... but there were tons of things to do to learn about
words and reading and making sense of stuff. He just shook his head. He'd
already learned that one lesson.......


that he couldn't learn

and that was that.

The special education teacher agreed with the child.


Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 5/23/01 10:40:04 PM, cen46624@... writes:

<< Yeah, see? You can DO stuff, just not stuff that has the LABEL "math"
because
then it's sort of blocked. But your self-image, after all this time, says
you're not math proficient until you stop and look at it. >>

That's why I never used those "subject area" labels with my kids. The way
school divides and labels things, if a kid hates timed arithmetic drills
(from an example here), he might reject all patterns and number puzzles and
geometry and such. Or if someone's afraid of the way formulas are written
out and they don't understand the explanation, they might think any thoughts
they have in their heads that don't look like the notation in the books is
wrong, or not useful, or not math.

If a child cannot stand biology (from squeamishness or an aversion to weird
textures or whatever), that doesn't mean that botany or geology or astronomy
or animal husbandry (don't cut them up and look at their stomach linings,
just track their genetics and study breeds and breeding) wouldn't be the
coolest thing in their world. But school and environs ask questions like "Do
you like science?" And the answer is yes, I like all science, or NO, I
don't. It seems that most people making chitchat with kids don't want a
real answer. They want simple dialog, nothing deep or challenging.

Sandra

Johanna

In a message dated 5/23/01 5:54:21 PM, LisaBugg@... writes:

<< He just shook his head. He'd
already learned that one lesson.......


that he couldn't learn

and that was that.

The special education teacher agreed with the child. >>

Personal example:
My mother often insulted my singing as a child "you couldn't carry a tune if it was sheet music in a bucket" is one comment I remember hearing frequently. I begged to take flute lessons for years and was told "you'll never stick with it, I'm not wasting the money" She played classical piano so I belived her opinion because of her "authority".I have loved music for years. In the past ten years, I have learned I can sing and pretty well. I am now a member of the choir and am often told I sing beautifully. I had a few friends who encouraged me in my early twentys. Just this week we did a test to evaluate your gifts and vocal music was one of my strongest, along with artistic crafts and writing. I try to never use the phrases you can't or you'll never do it. I don't know what my children are capable of and I don't want their gifts limited because of my lack of vision. I want them to soar in whatever they love. Soar high and with delight in their hearts!
Johanna
Life is the ultimate learning experience!


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Terri Allen

Johanna, I have to comment on this because I had a very similar experience and this became a topic of discussion with our kids a few months back. It was the example I gave as we were talking about watching what you say to others, whether you are a child or an adult, because what you may think is a passing comment, the person it's directed at just may take it to heart.

This whole scene is so clear in my mind. I relive it every time I tell it. I was in fourth grade and we had just moved to Lafayette, La. My parents are active church-goers and "encouraged" me to join the children's choir, so I did. The director for that grade was having all of the kids sing one song out of the hymnal acapella to determine where you fell on the scale, alto, soprano, etc. We were able to pick the song, so I picked one of my favorites--Love Lifted Me, which is not an easy song for a fourth grader, I found out. Regardless, after I had sung the first verse, the director told me in front of the rest of the choir that I would be better off mouthing the words. Needless to say, I was crushed.

But, you know what? That's exactly what I did--all through grade school and high school! I was in the church choir for all those years and NEVER sang a note! By the time I hit high school, I had a bestfriend that was also an alto (how can you say I was when I never sang?). She had a strong enough voice for both of us and she knew my secret and kept it for me.

It wasn't until two years ago when my youngest was born that I began to sing to her--lullabies at first, then children's songs, then in the car....now I even sing at church in the congregation. There are times when I wonder if I sound okay to the person standing next to me and I begin to worry. Lucky for me, it's usually my husband and he always tells me I sound great. Who knows if I really do? I don't care, because I love music and love to sing!

What a valuable lesson on the power of words....

Terri
----- Original Message -----
From: Johanna
To: [email protected]
Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2001 12:16 PM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] basic skills


In a message dated 5/23/01 5:54:21 PM, LisaBugg@... writes:

<< He just shook his head. He'd
already learned that one lesson.......


that he couldn't learn

and that was that.

The special education teacher agreed with the child. >>

Personal example:
My mother often insulted my singing as a child "you couldn't carry a tune if it was sheet music in a bucket" is one comment I remember hearing frequently. I begged to take flute lessons for years and was told "you'll never stick with it, I'm not wasting the money" She played classical piano so I belived her opinion because of her "authority".I have loved music for years. In the past ten years, I have learned I can sing and pretty well. I am now a member of the choir and am often told I sing beautifully. I had a few friends who encouraged me in my early twentys. Just this week we did a test to evaluate your gifts and vocal music was one of my strongest, along with artistic crafts and writing. I try to never use the phrases you can't or you'll never do it. I don't know what my children are capable of and I don't want their gifts limited because of my lack of vision. I want them to soar in whatever they love. Soar high and with delight in their hearts!
Johanna
Life is the ultimate learning experience!


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sharon Rudd

--- Johanna <saninocencio1@...> wrote:

I don't know what my children are
> capable of and I don't want their gifts limited
> because of my lack of vision. I want them to soar in
> whatever they love. Soar high and with delight in
> their hearts!
> Johanna

Dear Johanna.....you have no lack of vision. But I
sure do wish I could hear you sing! You words sing,
but I wanna hear your VOICE too......Sharon




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[email protected]

In a message dated 5/24/01 7:52:55 PM, kscajuns@... writes:

<< We were able to pick the song, so I picked one of my favorites--Love
Lifted Me, which is not an easy song for a fourth grader, I found out.
Regardless, after I had sung the first verse, the director told me in front
of the rest of the choir that I would be better off mouthing the words.
Needless to say, I was crushed. >>

Hey, I know that song. <g>
Big range, and hard intervals.

They should have had an accompanist, for real. The adults in church are
never expected to sing a capella. Weenies.

<<Lucky for me, it's usually my husband and he always tells me I sound great.
Who knows if I really do?>>

Well...
THEY do.

I have friends who sing very softly if at all because they've been told
(years ago) that they were off or not great singers. What they're singing
softly is fine, but they're afraid to make it full voice.

Sandra

Terri Allen

Now, my mother-in-law, on the other hand, really *can't* carry a tune in a bucket, but she doesn't know that and no one has ever told her (or ever will), because she was a member of a group like the Sweet Adelines at one time. I'm sure they cringed occasionally, but her enthusiasm makes up for the notes that she misses....she loves to sing so much and has music surrounding her constantly--all types, gospel, barbershop, contemporary, etc. It's hard to be around her and not be infected! What a wonderful love affair---

Terri
----- Original Message -----
From: SandraDodd@...
To: [email protected]
Sent: Friday, May 25, 2001 9:07 AM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] basic skills



In a message dated 5/24/01 7:52:55 PM, kscajuns@... writes:

<< We were able to pick the song, so I picked one of my favorites--Love
Lifted Me, which is not an easy song for a fourth grader, I found out.
Regardless, after I had sung the first verse, the director told me in front
of the rest of the choir that I would be better off mouthing the words.
Needless to say, I was crushed. >>

Hey, I know that song. <g>
Big range, and hard intervals.

They should have had an accompanist, for real. The adults in church are
never expected to sing a capella. Weenies.

<<Lucky for me, it's usually my husband and he always tells me I sound great.
Who knows if I really do?>>

Well...
THEY do.

I have friends who sing very softly if at all because they've been told
(years ago) that they were off or not great singers. What they're singing
softly is fine, but they're afraid to make it full voice.

Sandra


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Tami Labig-Duquette

We (my children and I) sing as loud to every song whether we know the words
to a song or not, my life mate is a musician and he sings beautifully (I
might add), I however do not sing well,(hence the broken glassware at my
house LOL), but I do love to sing. My son has a beautiful voice, he hasn't
reached the age where its changed yet and its high yet low :) my daughter
(oldest) has all the right moves when she sings and I just think its so cool
when we do break out in song and vocally blast :) I wanted to do Bohiemian
Rhapsody at the talent show this year and my mom said "that song is just
awful and you will get laughed off the stage(she only likes country,and
nothing else), I personally think if we did it would be awesome!!! I have
visions of flashlights under the chin and singing the song, I just love that
song :)
Tami-who is in a rambling mood and just saw there is a Tami, Tammy, and a
Tamie on this list LOL so I'll be Tami in Indiana :)


>From: SandraDodd@...
>Reply-To: [email protected]
>To: [email protected]
>Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] basic skills
>Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 10:07:20 EDT
>
>I have friends who sing very softly if at all because they've been told
>(years ago) that they were off or not great singers. What they're singing
>softly is fine, but they're afraid to make it full voice.
>
>Sandra
>

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

Tami Labig-Duquette

Remeber that tv show All in the Family? Edith Bunker sang anit was lousy lol
but in the same sense beautiful because her whole body was singing and she
always had that smile so you knew she was having a grand ole time :) ok so
thats me LOL
Tami in Indiana


>From: "Terri Allen" <kscajuns@...>
>Reply-To: [email protected]
>To: <[email protected]>
>Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] basic skills
>Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 09:35:46 -0500
>
>Now, my mother-in-law, on the other hand, really *can't* carry a tune in a
>bucket, but she doesn't know that and no one has ever told her (or ever
>will), because she was a member of a group like the Sweet Adelines at one
>time. I'm sure they cringed occasionally, but her enthusiasm makes up for
>the notes that she misses....she loves to sing so much and has music
>surrounding her constantly--all types, gospel, barbershop, contemporary,
>etc. It's hard to be around her and not be infected! What a wonderful love
>affair---
>
>Terri
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: SandraDodd@...
> To: [email protected]
> Sent: Friday, May 25, 2001 9:07 AM
> Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] basic skills
>
>
>
> In a message dated 5/24/01 7:52:55 PM, kscajuns@... writes:
>
> << We were able to pick the song, so I picked one of my favorites--Love
> Lifted Me, which is not an easy song for a fourth grader, I found out.
> Regardless, after I had sung the first verse, the director told me in
>front
> of the rest of the choir that I would be better off mouthing the words.
> Needless to say, I was crushed. >>
>
> Hey, I know that song. <g>
> Big range, and hard intervals.
>
> They should have had an accompanist, for real. The adults in church are
> never expected to sing a capella. Weenies.
>
> <<Lucky for me, it's usually my husband and he always tells me I sound
>great.
> Who knows if I really do?>>
>
> Well...
> THEY do.
>
> I have friends who sing very softly if at all because they've been told
> (years ago) that they were off or not great singers. What they're
>singing
> softly is fine, but they're afraid to make it full voice.
>
> Sandra
>
>
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>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

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Terri Allen

YEP! That's my mil! She has a friend and his wife that play bluegrass in a band. She went to their rehearsal one Friday evening at their house. She commented that Nelson and two of the band members were tapping their feet to the music, but Nelson's wife just played without moving. My mil, on the other hand, said her whole body couldn't sit still! Both her feet and hands were tapping along! She can't understand how anyone can listen to music and just sit still without at least tapping their feet!!

Terri
----- Original Message -----
From: Tami Labig-Duquette
To: [email protected]
Sent: Friday, May 25, 2001 9:47 AM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] basic skills


Remeber that tv show All in the Family? Edith Bunker sang anit was lousy lol
but in the same sense beautiful because her whole body was singing and she
always had that smile so you knew she was having a grand ole time :) ok so
thats me LOL
Tami in Indiana


>From: "Terri Allen" <kscajuns@...>
>Reply-To: [email protected]
>To: <[email protected]>
>Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] basic skills
>Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 09:35:46 -0500
>
>Now, my mother-in-law, on the other hand, really *can't* carry a tune in a
>bucket, but she doesn't know that and no one has ever told her (or ever
>will), because she was a member of a group like the Sweet Adelines at one
>time. I'm sure they cringed occasionally, but her enthusiasm makes up for
>the notes that she misses....she loves to sing so much and has music
>surrounding her constantly--all types, gospel, barbershop, contemporary,
>etc. It's hard to be around her and not be infected! What a wonderful love
>affair---
>
>Terri
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: SandraDodd@...
> To: [email protected]
> Sent: Friday, May 25, 2001 9:07 AM
> Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] basic skills
>
>
>
> In a message dated 5/24/01 7:52:55 PM, kscajuns@... writes:
>
> << We were able to pick the song, so I picked one of my favorites--Love
> Lifted Me, which is not an easy song for a fourth grader, I found out.
> Regardless, after I had sung the first verse, the director told me in
>front
> of the rest of the choir that I would be better off mouthing the words.
> Needless to say, I was crushed. >>
>
> Hey, I know that song. <g>
> Big range, and hard intervals.
>
> They should have had an accompanist, for real. The adults in church are
> never expected to sing a capella. Weenies.
>
> <<Lucky for me, it's usually my husband and he always tells me I sound
>great.
> Who knows if I really do?>>
>
> Well...
> THEY do.
>
> I have friends who sing very softly if at all because they've been told
> (years ago) that they were off or not great singers. What they're
>singing
> softly is fine, but they're afraid to make it full voice.
>
> Sandra
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
>
> www.
>
>
>
>
>
> Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
> Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com
>
> To unsubscribe, set preferences, or read archives:
> http://www.egroups.com/group/Unschooling-dotcom
>
> Another great list sponsored by Home Education Magazine!
> http://www.home-ed-magazine.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
>
>
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Tracy Oldfield

Thank you, Sharon. That was a very nice thing to say!
BTW, I wanted to thank you off-list but I don't know
how - I've heard people talking about "taking it off-
list" - do they have to exchange private email
addresses to do this?

Thanks,
Diana Tashjian


I use Pegasus, it has an option when you hit 'reply' to
send to the sender or to the list, which is cool :-)

Tracy, back from her jollies and finally caught up on
all the mail, you guys were busy last week!!!

[email protected]

In a message dated 5/25/01 11:04:53 AM, labigduquette@... writes:

<< I wanted to do Bohiemian
Rhapsody at the talent show this year and my mom said "that song is just
awful and you will get laughed off the stage(she only likes country,and
nothing else), I personally think if we did it would be awesome!!! >>

Have you heard Weird Al's version?
I think it's Bohemian Polka.

Same words, but the music is much happier! Your mom might like it!

Sandra

[email protected]

In a message dated 5/29/2001 12:24:49 PM Central Daylight Time,
SandraDodd@... writes:

<< << I wanted to do Bohiemian
Rhapsody at the talent show this year and my mom said "that song is just
awful and you will get laughed off the stage(she only likes country,and
nothing else), I personally think if we did it would be awesome!!! >> >>

We love Bohiemian Rhapsody and Queen in general here. I think it would be
awesome too. I have never heard of the polka version. Kind of glad too :)

Candy

Nanci Kuykendall

>Has anyone tried to tie this in with any adult that
>is illiterate? (and) ........If it is reasonable to
>say that you can transmit basic literacy and math
>skills within about 50 hours, why are there so many
>illiterate adults out there?

Sorry I lost the author's byline on this message, but
you know who you are I assume. :-)

Interesting question, why all the illiteracy if it
comes so easily? I think in large part we are talking
about damage done by the educational system that makes
these people not WANT to read or do math or what have
you. They have been thoroughly abused and turned off
to it. Many of them may also be suffering from
unrecognized reading and/or learning disabilites that
makes it very difficult for them to learn by
traditional methods. These people often have been
kicked around by the system and now lack the self
esteem to believe that they are even CAPABLE of
learning.

My next door neighbor is one such person. We live in a
middle class neighborhood with older homes. Altough
she is a mother with school age children, and they own
their own home, she apparently thinks very little of
herself. She told me she went through public school
here in this town and she is completely illiterate.
When I suggested that maybe she could learn with her
daughter (then in Kindetgarten) she dismissed the
notion, saying she was "Too Old". She marveled that
we had a computer, as though it was something only
rich people had. She was amazed that we were
homeschoolers, finding that outside her realm of
experience. I think this kind of ignorance and low
self image work together to keep people like my
neighbor miserably pigeon holed where the system told
her she ought to be.

Nanci K.



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Tammy Graves

Hi Nanci, it was I that brought up the question about illiteracy. I do like your
answer and believe you are right.



>Has anyone tried to tie this in with any adult that
>is illiterate? (and) ........If it is reasonable to
>say that you can transmit basic literacy and math
>skills within about 50 hours, why are there so many
>illiterate adults out there?

Sorry I lost the author's byline on this message, but
you know who you are I assume. :-)

Interesting question, why all the illiteracy if it
comes so easily? I think in large part we are talking
about damage done by the educational system that makes
these people not WANT to read or do math or what have
you. They have been thoroughly abused and turned off
to it. Many of them may also be suffering from
unrecognized reading and/or learning disabilites that
makes it very difficult for them to learn by
traditional methods. These people often have been
kicked around by the system and now lack the self
esteem to believe that they are even CAPABLE of
learning.

My next door neighbor is one such person. We live in a
middle class neighborhood with older homes. Altough
she is a mother with school age children, and they own
their own home, she apparently thinks very little of
herself. She told me she went through public school
here in this town and she is completely illiterate.
When I suggested that maybe she could learn with her
daughter (then in Kindetgarten) she dismissed the
notion, saying she was "Too Old". She marveled that
we had a computer, as though it was something only
rich people had. She was amazed that we were
homeschoolers, finding that outside her realm of
experience. I think this kind of ignorance and low
self image work together to keep people like my
neighbor miserably pigeon holed where the system told
her she ought to be.

Nanci K.



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Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com

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