Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Long response, stress and frustration
Lynda
Alrighty. This post has not been edited, nor are all the links or
references complete but since I am being accused (hmmmm, flamed, maybe would
be more accurate) of ignoring DEMANDS by the below poster, here is the
answer to the DEMANDS. If anyone wants the complete answer with all the
references *complete,* then it will take a little longer to put together. I
don't have all the congressional records sitting in front of me nor do I
have all the little "pieces." I was putting it together but I guess I will
flunk the test if I don't turn in my DEMANDED report promptly.
Lynda, who, believe it or not is smiling while she sends this as she really
doesn't treat this stuff as a matter of life and death. ~~sigh~~ guess
some folks do.
P.S. I sign quite a few posts with the initials CAM which means Clear As
Mud because sometimes it is hard to convey what one is trying to say when
one can't use body language or stop and edit verbally as one talks nor can
the person you are talking to stop you and ask for explanations as you talk.
MOST folks understand that and then ask one to further explain instead of
jumping in and attacking.
That said, here is the reply to the post that Sandra is flaming about in
another post:
O.K., this little game of creative editing and sniping really needs to stop.
Why, I just might have to stop giggling and LAYNWY!
Sandra rambled on creatively editing:
basis or, if one prefers, the philosophy of the American Indian as regarded
learning prior to the murderous white thieves coming to this continent.
They believed that a child learned from the whole tribe and family, that
they learned by doing, that they learned by listening to the elders.
best imitation of a valley girl <g>) I said the laws that were passed that
declared the American Indian not to be human was why they were sent to
boarding schools. Ya know, "barbarians," and "animals" were two of their
favorite adjectives.
"In the difference of language to-day lies two-thirds of our trouble. . . .
Schools should be established, which children should be required to attend;
their barbarous dialect should be blotted out and the English language
substituted. (Report of the Indian Peace Commissioners, 1868, pp. 16-17)"
"how easy it would be to assimilate Indians into the general population by
giving them a white man's education for a few years in a boarding school
(Hoxie, 1984)."
"if there were a sufficient number of reservation boarding-school-buildings
to accommodate all the Indian children of school age, and these building
could be filled and kept filled with Indian pupils, the Indian problem would
be solved within the school age of the Indian child now six years old.
(Oberly, 1885, cxiii)"
"English language only must be taught the Indian youth placed there for
educational and industrial training at the expense of the Government. If
Dakota or any other language is taught such children, they will be taken
away. (Atkins, 1887, p. xxi)"
"Every nation is jealous of its own language, and no nation ought to be more
so than ours, which approaches nearer than any other nationality to the
perfect protection of its people. True Americans all feel that the
Constitution, laws, and institutions of the United States, in their
adaptation to the wants and requirements of man, are superior to those of
any other country; and they should understand that by the spread of the
English language will these laws and institutions be more firmly established
a nd widely disseminated. Nothing so surely and perfectly stamps upon an
individual a national characteristic as language. . . . [As the Indians] are
in an English-speaking country, they must be taught the language which they
must use in transacting business with the people of this country. Atkins,
1887, pp. xxi-xxiii)"
"All instruction shall be in the English language. Pupils shall be required
to converse with employees and each other in English. All school employees
must be able to speak English fluently. (Rules for Indian Schools, 1898, p.
25)"
And to
claim that they cut the hair of all the girls is false. Boys, most likely.
***One of the most racist states in the union! And, yes it was applicable
to your state! The children were removed from the reservation or sent to
missionary schools on the reservation. They were forced to learn English
and were punished for not doing so. Physically punished! You do realise
that NM is part of Four Corners, don't you or will you claim that the
following
quote can't possibly apply to NM. I mean, one of the worst was in your
hometown.
"Kluckhohn and Leighton reported that 95% of Navajo children "went home
rather than to white communities, after leaving school, only to find
themselves handicapped for taking part in Navajo life because they did not
know the techniques and customs of their own people" (1962, p. 141)."
"In an introductory heading to a 1923 Current History article on "America's
Treatment of Her Indians," Collier (1923) declared that "the administration
of Indian affairs [is] a national disgrace -- A policy designed to rob
Indians of their property, destroy their culture and eventually exterminate
them" (p. 771, emphasis in original)."
either.>>
some
places.
***Get a grip. Failing grades do not even vaguely compare to being
physically punished, denied parental visits, being denied meals or any of
the various other punishments inflicted on these children!
uniforms
working for Title III, Title V, Title IX and JOM!
"Regardless of the school system they are in, Navajo students find
themselves in an environment controlled and dominated by non-Indians. Most
of the teachers and administrators in reservation schools are Anglo [white].
Public school boards of education are dominated by non-Indians and those few
Indians who do serve wield little authority. Parent advisory boards are the
BIA school equivalent of a board of education; while these are all Indian,
their function is only advisory and they are essentially powerless.
Navajos, in fact, have been excluded from the decision-making process in
these school systems. The result has been a variety of education policies
unrelated to the Navajo community. The Navajo language and culture have been
largely ignored in the curriculum offered to Navajo students. (United
States, 1975, pp. 126-127)"
"Enforcement of the English-only regulations was usually strict. Lawrence
Horn, a Blackfeet, who attended the government school at Heart Butte,
recalled students getting a stroke of a leather strap with holes in it every
time they spoke Indian (Parsons, 1980). "
***You were given some sources but you wanted to be spoon fed. You were not
given all sources/links because you cannot get there.
imply that someone else is lying! Twisting and creative editing of posts is
a form of LYING!
*you*, I would have been sure to quote the h*ll out of everything and
anything available. However, I wasn't. I was answering a question directed
at me. Not a general question but one that referred to my *opinion* about
the general acceptance of Prussian type education. However, I have given
you a long list of references and have included, in this post, many, many
quotes and sources. Enjoy!
make. Everyone on the list has noticed it, btw.
Further, there was one over all model and it was the Carlisle school and
government regulation. Again you speak as an authority about something you
know absolutely nothing about!
"The model for what became an entire system was the Carlisle Indian School,
established in Pennsylvania in 1875 by Captain Richard Henry Pratt, a man
whose main qualification for the task seems to have been that he'd earlier
served as warden of a military prison at Fort Marion, Florida. Following
Pratt's stated objective of "killing the Indian" in each student, Carlisle
and other such facilities-Chilocco, Albuquerque, Phoenix, Haskell,
Riverside; by 1902, there were two-dozen of thern-systematically
"deculturated" their pupils. Children brought to the schools as young as age
six were denied most or all direct contact with their families and societies
for years on end. They were shorn of their hair and required to dress in the
manner of Euro-America, forbidden to speak their languages or practice their
religions, prevented from learning their own histories or being in any other
way socialized among their own people.
Individual native families and, often, whole societies resisted the process.
In 1891, and again in 1893, Congress authorized the use of police, troops
and other forcible means to compel the transfer of children from reservation
to boarding school, and to keep them there once they'd arrived. Hence,
despite the best efforts of their elders, and not infrequently of the
students themselves, a total of 21,568 indigenous children--about a third of
the targeted age group-were confined in the schools in 1900. As of the late
1920s, the system had been diversified and expanded to the point that
upwards of eighty percent of each successive generation of native youth was
being comprehensively "acculturated" in a more-or-less uniform fashion."
http://www.zmag.org/ZMag/articles/jan98ward.htm
Abbott, F. H. (1915). The administration of Indian affairs in Canada.
Washington, DC: U.S. Government Printing Office.
Annual report of the board of Indian commissioners. (1869-1933). Washington:
U.S. Government Printing Office.
Atkins, J.D.C. (1887). Annual report of the commissioner of Indian affairs
to the secretary of the interior for the year 1887. Washington: Government
Printing Office.
Baron, D. (1990). The English-only question: An official language for
Americans? New Haven, CT: Yale University.
Bartlett, S. C. (1887, October 6). The Ruling of the Indian Bureau. The
Independent, 39(2027), pp. 1254-1255.
Bennett, W. J. (1986). First lessons: A report on elementary education in
America. Washington, DC: U.S. Department of Education.
Brown, E. A. (1952). Stubborn fool: A narrative. Caldwell, ID: Caxton.
Butler, N. M. (Ed.) (1910). Education and the Indian. In Education in the
United States. New York: American Book Co.
Collier, J. (1923, March). Our Indian policy. Sunset Magazine, 13-15 &
89-93.
Collier, J. (1923, August). America's treatment of her Indians. Current
History, 771-778.
Crawford, J. (1990). Language freedom and restriction: A historical approach
to the official language controversy. In J. Reyhner (Ed.), Effective
language education practices and native language survival (pp. 9-22).
Choctaw, OK: Native American Language Issues.
Deloria, Jr., V. (1990). Traditional education in the world. Winds of
Change, 5(10), 13 & 16-18.
Deyhle, D. (1989). Pushouts and pullouts: Navajo and Ute school leavers.
Journal of Navajo Education, 6(2), 36-51.
Eder, J., & Reyhner, J. (1988). The historical background of Indian
education. In J. Reyhner (Ed.), Teaching the Indian child: A
bilingual/multicultural approach (pp. 29-54). Billings, MT: Eastern Montana
College.
Editorial. (1874, January). IAPI OAYE, 3(1), 1874, p. 4.
Editorial. (1990). Education, 10, 449-453.
Fuchs, E., & Havighurst, R. J. [1972] 1983. To live on this earth: American
Indian education. Albuquerque, NM: University of New Mexico.
Goodale, E. (1891). Self-teaching in the Indian schools. Educational Review,
1, pp. 57-59.
Hakuta, K., & Pease-Alvarez, L. (Eds.). (1992). Special issue on bilingual
education. Educational Researcher, 21(2), 1-47.
Hawkins, J. E. (1971). Forward. In Bilingual education for American Indians
(Curriculum Bulletin No. 3). Washington, DC: Office of Education Programs,
BIA.
Hinman, S.D. (1869). Journal of the Rev. S.D. Hinman missionary to the
Santee Sioux Indians. Philadelphia: McCalla & Stavely.
Hopkins, S. W. (1883). Life among the Piutes: Their wrongs and claims,
edited by Mrs. Horace Mann. Boston: Cupples, Upham & Co.
Howard, O. O. (1907). My life and experiences among our hostile Indians.
Hartford, CN: A.T. Worthington.
Hoxie, F.E. (1984). A final promise: The campaign to assimilate the Indians,
1880-1920. Lincoln: University of Nebraska.
Indian education: Americas unpaid debt. (1982). Washington, DC: U.S.
Government Printing Office. (The eighth annual report to the Congress of the
United States by the National Advisory Council on Indian Education).
Kluckhohn, C., & Leighton, D. (1962). The Navaho, revised edition. New York:
Doubleday.
Kneale, A. H. (1950). Indian agent. Caldwell, ID: Caxton.
Latham, G. I. (1989). Thirteen most common needs of American Indian
education in BIA schools. Journal of American Indian Education, 29(1), 1-11.
Layman, M. E. (1942). A history of Indian education. Unpublished Doctoral
Dissertation, University of Minnesota.
Leap, W.L. (1982). Roles for the linguist in Indian bilingual education. In
R. St. Clair & W. Leap (Eds.), Language renewal among American Indian
tribes: Issues, problems, and prospects (pp. 19-30). Rosslyn, VI: National
Clearinghouse for Bi lingual Education.
Littlebear, D. (1990). Keynote address: Effective language education
practices and native language survival. In J. Reyhner (Ed.), Effective
language education practices and native language survival (pp. 1-8).
Choctaw, OK: Native American Language Issues.
Meriam, L. (Ed.) (1928). The problem of Indian administration. Baltimore:
John Hopkins.
Nader, R. (1969). "Statement of Ralph Nader, author, Lecturer." Indian
Education, 1969, pt. 1, 47-55. Hearings before the subcommittee on Indian
Education of the Committee on Labor and Public Welfare. U.S. Senate, 91st
Cong., 1st sess. Washington, D.C.: Government Printing Office.
Native American Languages Act of 1990, 104, 25 U.S.C. 2901-2906.
Navajo Division of Education. (1985). Navajo Nation: Educational policies.
Window Rock, AZ: Navajo Division of Education.
North, I. (1891). as quoted in The Word Carrier, 20(5), 10-11.
Northern Ute Tribe. 1985. Ute language policy. Cultural Survival Quarterly,
9(2), 16-19.
Office of Indian Education Programs, Bureau of Indian Affairs, U.S.
Department of the Interior. (1988). Report on BIA education: Excellence in
Indian education the effective school process (Final review draft).
Washington, DC: Author. (ERIC Document Reproduction Service No. ED 297 899)
Office of Inspector General, U.S. Department of the Interior. (1991). Audit
report: Implementation of the education amendments of 1978, Bureau of Indian
Affairs. Washington, DC: Author. (Report No. 91-I-941)
Oberly, J. H. (1885). In Annual report of the commissioner of Indian affairs
to the secretary of the interior for the year 1885, lxxv-ccxxv. Washington:
Government Printing Office.
Parsons, J. (1980). The educational movement of the Blackfeet Indians
1840-1979. Browning, MT: Blackfeet Heritage Program.
Pascua Yaqui Tribal Council. (1984). Yaqui language policy for the Pascua
Yaqui Tribe: Policy declaration. Tucson, AZ: Tucson Unified School District.
Platero Paperwork, Inc. (1986). Executive summary: Navajo area student
dropout study. Window Rock, AZ: Navajo Nation, Navajo Division of Education.
Pond, Jr., S.W. (1893). Two volunteer missionaries among the Dakotas or the
story of the labors of Samuel W. and Gideon H. Pond. Boston: Congregational
Sunday-School and Publishing Society.
Porter, R. P. (1990). Forked tongue: The politics of bilingual education.
New York: Basic Books.
Prucha, F. P. (1973). Americanizing the American Indians. Cambridge, MA:
Harvard University.
Reyhner, J. (1990). A description of the Rock Point Community School
bilingual education program. In J. Reyhner (Ed.). Effective language
education practices and native language survival (pp. 95-106). Choctaw, OK:
Native American Language Issues .
Reyhner, J. (Ed.). (1988). Teaching the Indian child: A
bilingual/multicultural approach. Billings, MT: Eastern Montana College.
(ERIC Document Reproduction Service No. 301 372)
Reyhner, J., & Eder, J. (1989). A history of Indian education. Billings, MT:
Eastern Montana College. (ERIC Document Reproduction Service No. 321 953)
Report of Indian Peace Commissioners. (1868, January 7). House of
Representatives, 40th Congress, 2nd Session, Executive Document No. 97.
(Serial Set, 1337, Vol. 11, No. 97).
Riggs, S. R. (1880). Mary and I: Forty years with the Sioux. Chicago: W.G.
Holmes.
Riggs, S. R., & Pond, G. H. (1839). The Dakota first reading Book.
Cincinnati: Kendall and Henry Printers.
Riggs, M. B. (1928). Early days at Santee: The beginnings of Santee Normal
Training School founded by Dr. and Mrs. A.L. Riggs in 1870. Santee, NE:
Santee N.T.S.
Rules for the Indian schools. (1898). Washington: Government Printing
Office.
Special Subcommittee on Indian Education, Senate Committee on Labor and
Public Welfare. (1969). Indian education: A national tragedy, a national
challenge. (Senate Report 91-501 -- Commonly known as the Kennedy Report)
Standing Bear, L. (1928). My people the Sioux, edited by E. A. Brininstool.
Boston: Houghton Mifflin.
Suina, J. H. (1988). When I went to school. In R. Cocking & J. P.Mestre
(Eds.), Linguistic and cultural influences on learning mathematics (pp.
295-299). Hillsdale, N.J.: Lawrence Erlbaum Associates.
Szasz, M. C. (1988). Indian education in the American colonies, 1607-1783.
Albuquerque: University of New Mexico.
Szasz, M. C. (1977). Education and the American Indian: The road to
self-determination since 1928, 2nd ed. Albuquerque: University of New
Mexico.
Task Force Five: Indian Education. (1976). Report on Indian education: Final
report to the American Indian Policy Review Commission. Washington, DC: U.S.
Government Printing Office.
Thompson, H. (1975). The Navajos' long walk for education: A history of
Navajo education. Tsaile, AZ: Navajo Community College.
United States Commission on Civil Rights. (1975, September). The Navajo
Nation: An American colony. Washington, DC: Author.
Wax, M. L. (1971). Indian Americans: Unity and diversity. Englewood Cliffs,
NJ: Prentice-Hall.
http://libweb.princeton.edu:2003/libraries/firestone/rbsc/finding_aids/aaia/
aaia.html
http://www.nross.com/namohist.htm#volume2 (tape with boarding school first
person narrative)
***And just incase that isn't enough, here's a bucket more:
Punishment:
Two of our girls ran away...but they got caught. They tied their legs up,
tied their hands behind their backs, put them in the middle of the hallway
so that if they fell, fell asleep or something, the matron would hear them
and she'd get out there and whip them and make them stand up again. (Helma
Ward, Makah, interview with Carolyn Marr)
"The placement of North American Indian youngsters in residential boarding
schools - and the abusive treatment they received there - is a part of our
history that is seldom talked about."
http://staff.lib.muohio.edu/nawpa/manuelHaskell.html
"Its effects, they say, were more devastating than the sexual assaults and
beatings that occurred in at least some of the 125 Indian Residential
Schools from the mid-19th century until the 1970s."
http://www.vanessascollection.com/main/2000/9-24indian.html
Through the Eyes of a Basketweaver
Creation Section
Dir., photo dir.: Vern Korb
Documentary. While she weaves her baskets according to traditional
techniques of the Hupa, Yurok and Karuk nations, Vivien Hailstone re-weaves
the historical and cultural background of these Northern California peoples.
She tells of the near disappearance of this art when, as a young girl in a
boarding school, she was forbidden to express her heritage, either through
her language or the practice of a craft passed on by her grandmother.
"Also, beginning in the 1880s, boarding schools were established, resulting
in the forced separation of children from their families. Language Loss and
Revitalization in California , By Leanne Hinton, Department of Linguistics,
University of California, Berkeley"
"Like many of our parents and grandparents, he was sent to a boarding school
and punished for using his language. People of the Seventh Fire by Dagmar
Thorpe"
"Boarding Schools or Concentration Camps? The end of the Gold Rush era
signaled a change in U.S. policy towards Native people. Instead of directly
killing California indigenous people, reservations were created and
indigenous people were re-located to them. The children were taken, often by
force, away from their parents and to far-away re-education centers.
Children as young as four attended these re-education centers. They were
forced to cut their hair and give up their clothing upon arrival.
Children could not have visitors, including their parents, while they stayed
at the centers. Some children stayed for years at a time. Indian children
were often farmed out as free labor to white settlers in boarding school
communities, and sometimes sold outright at auctions held by boarding school
teachers." http://www.originalvoices.org/USGovtRolesSix.htm
"You know how I was raised? In a boarding school, being slapped across the
face, beaten for being an Indian, feeling ashamed of the color of my skin."
Sweet Tears and Bitter Pills, Mariana Kawall Leal Ferreira.
"The model for what became an entire system was the Carlisle Indian School,
established in Pennsylvania in 1875 by Captain Richard Henry Pratt, a man
whose main qualification for the task seems to have been that he'd earlier
served as warden of a military prison at Fort Marion, Florida. Following
Pratt's stated objective of "killing the Indian" in each student, Carlisle
and other such facilities-Chilocco, Albuquerque, Phoenix, Haskell,
Riverside; by 1902, there were two-dozen of thern-systematically
"deculturated" their pupils. Children brought to the schools as young as age
six were denied most or all direct contact with their families and societies
for years on end. They were shorn of their hair and required to dress in the
manner of Euro-America, forbidden to speak their languages or practice their
religions, prevented from learning their own histories or being in any other
way socialized among their own people.
Individual native families and, often, whole societies resisted the process.
In 1891, and again in 1893, Congress authorized the use of police, troops
and other forcible means to compel the transfer of children from reservation
to boarding school, and to keep them there once they'd arrived. Hence,
despite the best efforts of their elders, and not infrequently of the
students themselves, a total of 21,568 indigenous children--about a third of
the targeted age group-were confined in the schools in 1900. As of the late
1920s, the system had been diversified and expanded to the point that
upwards of eighty percent of each successive generation of native youth was
being comprehensively "acculturated" in a more-or-less uniform fashion."
http://www.zmag.org/ZMag/articles/jan98ward.htm
"According to many observers, the regimen of the schools usually included
getting Indians to dress, speak, and act like white people (see for example,
Whiteman, 1986)."
"At that time Indians were not U.S. citizens, and they lacked the right to
control their own lives and the education of their children (Eder & Reyhner,
1988; Whiteman, 1986)."
://www.zmag.org/ZMag/articles/jan98ward.htm
"Indian Commissioner Thomas J. Morgan wrote in 1889 that "the Indians must
conform 'to the white man's ways,' peaceably if they will, forcibly if they
must." Many Indians began their education at this time in boarding schools,
often far from home, where they had their hair cut, where their native
clothes were replaced, and where they were often punished for speaking their
own languages (Whiteman, 1986)."
http://www.ed.gov/databases/ERIC_Digests/ed314228.html
While some Indian resistance was crushed by dramatic massacres, for the most
part it was subdued by a combination of disease, alcohol, food rationing,
the cooperation of Indian collaborators, and the theft of children for
boarding schools - a situation not radically unlike today.
http://www.cwis.org/fwdp/Americas/anti-ind.txt
Pictures:
http://content.lib.washington.edu/cgi-bin/pview.exe?CISOROOT=/loc&CISOPTR=18
27&CISORESTMP=/aipnw/search-templates/aipnw-results.html&CISOVIEWTMP=/aipnw/
search-templates/aipnw-view1.html&CISOCLICK=title:subjec
references complete but since I am being accused (hmmmm, flamed, maybe would
be more accurate) of ignoring DEMANDS by the below poster, here is the
answer to the DEMANDS. If anyone wants the complete answer with all the
references *complete,* then it will take a little longer to put together. I
don't have all the congressional records sitting in front of me nor do I
have all the little "pieces." I was putting it together but I guess I will
flunk the test if I don't turn in my DEMANDED report promptly.
Lynda, who, believe it or not is smiling while she sends this as she really
doesn't treat this stuff as a matter of life and death. ~~sigh~~ guess
some folks do.
P.S. I sign quite a few posts with the initials CAM which means Clear As
Mud because sometimes it is hard to convey what one is trying to say when
one can't use body language or stop and edit verbally as one talks nor can
the person you are talking to stop you and ask for explanations as you talk.
MOST folks understand that and then ask one to further explain instead of
jumping in and attacking.
That said, here is the reply to the post that Sandra is flaming about in
another post:
O.K., this little game of creative editing and sniping really needs to stop.
Why, I just might have to stop giggling and LAYNWY!
Sandra rambled on creatively editing:
> In a message dated 5/20/01 9:42:00 PM, lurine@... writes:the
>
> << The term that Hilliary made so icky to some, "it takes a village" is
> basis for American Indian learning up until the advent of the U.S.***Duh! It doesn't say it is an American Indian quote. I said it is the
> government passing laws stating that Indians were not humans and had no
> rights given to humans. >>
>
> I didn't think it was an American Indian quote.
basis or, if one prefers, the philosophy of the American Indian as regarded
learning prior to the murderous white thieves coming to this continent.
They believed that a child learned from the whole tribe and family, that
they learned by doing, that they learned by listening to the elders.
> I thought it was African. Can anyone confirm or deny?***Creative editing again! ~~sigh~~ It IS getting soooo boring! (Using my
>
> <<This was used to remove all Indian children from
> their homes and ship them off to boarding schools where the worst of the
> worse parts of the Prussian model were practiced. >>
>
> This is not so. "It takes a village" was not ANY justification for taking
> kids to boarding schools.
best imitation of a valley girl <g>) I said the laws that were passed that
declared the American Indian not to be human was why they were sent to
boarding schools. Ya know, "barbarians," and "animals" were two of their
favorite adjectives.
"In the difference of language to-day lies two-thirds of our trouble. . . .
Schools should be established, which children should be required to attend;
their barbarous dialect should be blotted out and the English language
substituted. (Report of the Indian Peace Commissioners, 1868, pp. 16-17)"
"how easy it would be to assimilate Indians into the general population by
giving them a white man's education for a few years in a boarding school
(Hoxie, 1984)."
"if there were a sufficient number of reservation boarding-school-buildings
to accommodate all the Indian children of school age, and these building
could be filled and kept filled with Indian pupils, the Indian problem would
be solved within the school age of the Indian child now six years old.
(Oberly, 1885, cxiii)"
"English language only must be taught the Indian youth placed there for
educational and industrial training at the expense of the Government. If
Dakota or any other language is taught such children, they will be taken
away. (Atkins, 1887, p. xxi)"
"Every nation is jealous of its own language, and no nation ought to be more
so than ours, which approaches nearer than any other nationality to the
perfect protection of its people. True Americans all feel that the
Constitution, laws, and institutions of the United States, in their
adaptation to the wants and requirements of man, are superior to those of
any other country; and they should understand that by the spread of the
English language will these laws and institutions be more firmly established
a nd widely disseminated. Nothing so surely and perfectly stamps upon an
individual a national characteristic as language. . . . [As the Indians] are
in an English-speaking country, they must be taught the language which they
must use in transacting business with the people of this country. Atkins,
1887, pp. xxi-xxiii)"
"All instruction shall be in the English language. Pupils shall be required
to converse with employees and each other in English. All school employees
must be able to speak English fluently. (Rules for Indian Schools, 1898, p.
25)"
>boarding schools wore white uniforms is simply to supply misinformation.
> <<They were all given
> Buster Brown haircuts (boys and girls) and dressed in white uniforms. >>
>
> Perhaps in one school you know of. To make a claim like all Indian
And to
claim that they cut the hair of all the girls is false. Boys, most likely.
> I live where there were still Indian schools very lately (still might beSt.
> Katherines' in Santa Fe, but if so, haircutting even for boys is long,long gone), and what you've written is not applicable.
***One of the most racist states in the union! And, yes it was applicable
to your state! The children were removed from the reservation or sent to
missionary schools on the reservation. They were forced to learn English
and were punished for not doing so. Physically punished! You do realise
that NM is part of Four Corners, don't you or will you claim that the
following
quote can't possibly apply to NM. I mean, one of the worst was in your
hometown.
"Kluckhohn and Leighton reported that 95% of Navajo children "went home
rather than to white communities, after leaving school, only to find
themselves handicapped for taking part in Navajo life because they did not
know the techniques and customs of their own people" (1962, p. 141)."
"In an introductory heading to a 1923 Current History article on "America's
Treatment of Her Indians," Collier (1923) declared that "the administration
of Indian affairs [is] a national disgrace -- A policy designed to rob
Indians of their property, destroy their culture and eventually exterminate
them" (p. 771, emphasis in original)."
>practicing
> << They were denied their language and religion and punished for
either.>>
>speaking LOTS of languages even until lately, and probably even today in
> That is true, but that's was also true in public schools of children
some
places.
***Get a grip. Failing grades do not even vaguely compare to being
physically punished, denied parental visits, being denied meals or any of
the various other punishments inflicted on these children!
>to attend church run schools on the reservations. Same haircuts and
> <<Those children that were not shipped off to boarding schools were forced
uniforms
> were required. The treatment was brutal because it was "o.k." to beat and***Congress, first person reports, first hand information, relatives,
> torture Indian children because they weren't "human.">>
>
> Where are you getting this information?
working for Title III, Title V, Title IX and JOM!
"Regardless of the school system they are in, Navajo students find
themselves in an environment controlled and dominated by non-Indians. Most
of the teachers and administrators in reservation schools are Anglo [white].
Public school boards of education are dominated by non-Indians and those few
Indians who do serve wield little authority. Parent advisory boards are the
BIA school equivalent of a board of education; while these are all Indian,
their function is only advisory and they are essentially powerless.
Navajos, in fact, have been excluded from the decision-making process in
these school systems. The result has been a variety of education policies
unrelated to the Navajo community. The Navajo language and culture have been
largely ignored in the curriculum offered to Navajo students. (United
States, 1975, pp. 126-127)"
"Enforcement of the English-only regulations was usually strict. Lawrence
Horn, a Blackfeet, who attended the government school at Heart Butte,
recalled students getting a stroke of a leather strap with holes in it every
time they spoke Indian (Parsons, 1980). "
>then denied saying it.
> Last time I asked for resources you said you had classified sources and
***You were given some sources but you wanted to be spoon fed. You were not
given all sources/links because you cannot get there.
>***Unless you can prove otherwise, I would think you would be wise to not
> Please, please--tell what is true or don't tell anything.
imply that someone else is lying! Twisting and creative editing of posts is
a form of LYING!
>for the answer....>>
> <<Which does not exactly answer your question but gives you a foundation
>***If, and that's a mighty big IF, I had been answering a question from
> Answers should be founded in documentable truth when possible, and direct
> account when possible. Sources and quotes, please.
*you*, I would have been sure to quote the h*ll out of everything and
anything available. However, I wasn't. I was answering a question directed
at me. Not a general question but one that referred to my *opinion* about
the general acceptance of Prussian type education. However, I have given
you a long list of references and have included, in this post, many, many
quotes and sources. Enjoy!
> I'm not questioning the evils of Indian schools. I'm questioning your***Yes indeedy, you are AGAIN questioning me or any assertion that I may
> assertion of details as thought there was one overall model of boarding
> school, or one overall group of Indians.
make. Everyone on the list has noticed it, btw.
Further, there was one over all model and it was the Carlisle school and
government regulation. Again you speak as an authority about something you
know absolutely nothing about!
"The model for what became an entire system was the Carlisle Indian School,
established in Pennsylvania in 1875 by Captain Richard Henry Pratt, a man
whose main qualification for the task seems to have been that he'd earlier
served as warden of a military prison at Fort Marion, Florida. Following
Pratt's stated objective of "killing the Indian" in each student, Carlisle
and other such facilities-Chilocco, Albuquerque, Phoenix, Haskell,
Riverside; by 1902, there were two-dozen of thern-systematically
"deculturated" their pupils. Children brought to the schools as young as age
six were denied most or all direct contact with their families and societies
for years on end. They were shorn of their hair and required to dress in the
manner of Euro-America, forbidden to speak their languages or practice their
religions, prevented from learning their own histories or being in any other
way socialized among their own people.
Individual native families and, often, whole societies resisted the process.
In 1891, and again in 1893, Congress authorized the use of police, troops
and other forcible means to compel the transfer of children from reservation
to boarding school, and to keep them there once they'd arrived. Hence,
despite the best efforts of their elders, and not infrequently of the
students themselves, a total of 21,568 indigenous children--about a third of
the targeted age group-were confined in the schools in 1900. As of the late
1920s, the system had been diversified and expanded to the point that
upwards of eighty percent of each successive generation of native youth was
being comprehensively "acculturated" in a more-or-less uniform fashion."
http://www.zmag.org/ZMag/articles/jan98ward.htm
>***Here's a few more references to keep a ps teacher's soul happy and busy:
Abbott, F. H. (1915). The administration of Indian affairs in Canada.
Washington, DC: U.S. Government Printing Office.
Annual report of the board of Indian commissioners. (1869-1933). Washington:
U.S. Government Printing Office.
Atkins, J.D.C. (1887). Annual report of the commissioner of Indian affairs
to the secretary of the interior for the year 1887. Washington: Government
Printing Office.
Baron, D. (1990). The English-only question: An official language for
Americans? New Haven, CT: Yale University.
Bartlett, S. C. (1887, October 6). The Ruling of the Indian Bureau. The
Independent, 39(2027), pp. 1254-1255.
Bennett, W. J. (1986). First lessons: A report on elementary education in
America. Washington, DC: U.S. Department of Education.
Brown, E. A. (1952). Stubborn fool: A narrative. Caldwell, ID: Caxton.
Butler, N. M. (Ed.) (1910). Education and the Indian. In Education in the
United States. New York: American Book Co.
Collier, J. (1923, March). Our Indian policy. Sunset Magazine, 13-15 &
89-93.
Collier, J. (1923, August). America's treatment of her Indians. Current
History, 771-778.
Crawford, J. (1990). Language freedom and restriction: A historical approach
to the official language controversy. In J. Reyhner (Ed.), Effective
language education practices and native language survival (pp. 9-22).
Choctaw, OK: Native American Language Issues.
Deloria, Jr., V. (1990). Traditional education in the world. Winds of
Change, 5(10), 13 & 16-18.
Deyhle, D. (1989). Pushouts and pullouts: Navajo and Ute school leavers.
Journal of Navajo Education, 6(2), 36-51.
Eder, J., & Reyhner, J. (1988). The historical background of Indian
education. In J. Reyhner (Ed.), Teaching the Indian child: A
bilingual/multicultural approach (pp. 29-54). Billings, MT: Eastern Montana
College.
Editorial. (1874, January). IAPI OAYE, 3(1), 1874, p. 4.
Editorial. (1990). Education, 10, 449-453.
Fuchs, E., & Havighurst, R. J. [1972] 1983. To live on this earth: American
Indian education. Albuquerque, NM: University of New Mexico.
Goodale, E. (1891). Self-teaching in the Indian schools. Educational Review,
1, pp. 57-59.
Hakuta, K., & Pease-Alvarez, L. (Eds.). (1992). Special issue on bilingual
education. Educational Researcher, 21(2), 1-47.
Hawkins, J. E. (1971). Forward. In Bilingual education for American Indians
(Curriculum Bulletin No. 3). Washington, DC: Office of Education Programs,
BIA.
Hinman, S.D. (1869). Journal of the Rev. S.D. Hinman missionary to the
Santee Sioux Indians. Philadelphia: McCalla & Stavely.
Hopkins, S. W. (1883). Life among the Piutes: Their wrongs and claims,
edited by Mrs. Horace Mann. Boston: Cupples, Upham & Co.
Howard, O. O. (1907). My life and experiences among our hostile Indians.
Hartford, CN: A.T. Worthington.
Hoxie, F.E. (1984). A final promise: The campaign to assimilate the Indians,
1880-1920. Lincoln: University of Nebraska.
Indian education: Americas unpaid debt. (1982). Washington, DC: U.S.
Government Printing Office. (The eighth annual report to the Congress of the
United States by the National Advisory Council on Indian Education).
Kluckhohn, C., & Leighton, D. (1962). The Navaho, revised edition. New York:
Doubleday.
Kneale, A. H. (1950). Indian agent. Caldwell, ID: Caxton.
Latham, G. I. (1989). Thirteen most common needs of American Indian
education in BIA schools. Journal of American Indian Education, 29(1), 1-11.
Layman, M. E. (1942). A history of Indian education. Unpublished Doctoral
Dissertation, University of Minnesota.
Leap, W.L. (1982). Roles for the linguist in Indian bilingual education. In
R. St. Clair & W. Leap (Eds.), Language renewal among American Indian
tribes: Issues, problems, and prospects (pp. 19-30). Rosslyn, VI: National
Clearinghouse for Bi lingual Education.
Littlebear, D. (1990). Keynote address: Effective language education
practices and native language survival. In J. Reyhner (Ed.), Effective
language education practices and native language survival (pp. 1-8).
Choctaw, OK: Native American Language Issues.
Meriam, L. (Ed.) (1928). The problem of Indian administration. Baltimore:
John Hopkins.
Nader, R. (1969). "Statement of Ralph Nader, author, Lecturer." Indian
Education, 1969, pt. 1, 47-55. Hearings before the subcommittee on Indian
Education of the Committee on Labor and Public Welfare. U.S. Senate, 91st
Cong., 1st sess. Washington, D.C.: Government Printing Office.
Native American Languages Act of 1990, 104, 25 U.S.C. 2901-2906.
Navajo Division of Education. (1985). Navajo Nation: Educational policies.
Window Rock, AZ: Navajo Division of Education.
North, I. (1891). as quoted in The Word Carrier, 20(5), 10-11.
Northern Ute Tribe. 1985. Ute language policy. Cultural Survival Quarterly,
9(2), 16-19.
Office of Indian Education Programs, Bureau of Indian Affairs, U.S.
Department of the Interior. (1988). Report on BIA education: Excellence in
Indian education the effective school process (Final review draft).
Washington, DC: Author. (ERIC Document Reproduction Service No. ED 297 899)
Office of Inspector General, U.S. Department of the Interior. (1991). Audit
report: Implementation of the education amendments of 1978, Bureau of Indian
Affairs. Washington, DC: Author. (Report No. 91-I-941)
Oberly, J. H. (1885). In Annual report of the commissioner of Indian affairs
to the secretary of the interior for the year 1885, lxxv-ccxxv. Washington:
Government Printing Office.
Parsons, J. (1980). The educational movement of the Blackfeet Indians
1840-1979. Browning, MT: Blackfeet Heritage Program.
Pascua Yaqui Tribal Council. (1984). Yaqui language policy for the Pascua
Yaqui Tribe: Policy declaration. Tucson, AZ: Tucson Unified School District.
Platero Paperwork, Inc. (1986). Executive summary: Navajo area student
dropout study. Window Rock, AZ: Navajo Nation, Navajo Division of Education.
Pond, Jr., S.W. (1893). Two volunteer missionaries among the Dakotas or the
story of the labors of Samuel W. and Gideon H. Pond. Boston: Congregational
Sunday-School and Publishing Society.
Porter, R. P. (1990). Forked tongue: The politics of bilingual education.
New York: Basic Books.
Prucha, F. P. (1973). Americanizing the American Indians. Cambridge, MA:
Harvard University.
Reyhner, J. (1990). A description of the Rock Point Community School
bilingual education program. In J. Reyhner (Ed.). Effective language
education practices and native language survival (pp. 95-106). Choctaw, OK:
Native American Language Issues .
Reyhner, J. (Ed.). (1988). Teaching the Indian child: A
bilingual/multicultural approach. Billings, MT: Eastern Montana College.
(ERIC Document Reproduction Service No. 301 372)
Reyhner, J., & Eder, J. (1989). A history of Indian education. Billings, MT:
Eastern Montana College. (ERIC Document Reproduction Service No. 321 953)
Report of Indian Peace Commissioners. (1868, January 7). House of
Representatives, 40th Congress, 2nd Session, Executive Document No. 97.
(Serial Set, 1337, Vol. 11, No. 97).
Riggs, S. R. (1880). Mary and I: Forty years with the Sioux. Chicago: W.G.
Holmes.
Riggs, S. R., & Pond, G. H. (1839). The Dakota first reading Book.
Cincinnati: Kendall and Henry Printers.
Riggs, M. B. (1928). Early days at Santee: The beginnings of Santee Normal
Training School founded by Dr. and Mrs. A.L. Riggs in 1870. Santee, NE:
Santee N.T.S.
Rules for the Indian schools. (1898). Washington: Government Printing
Office.
Special Subcommittee on Indian Education, Senate Committee on Labor and
Public Welfare. (1969). Indian education: A national tragedy, a national
challenge. (Senate Report 91-501 -- Commonly known as the Kennedy Report)
Standing Bear, L. (1928). My people the Sioux, edited by E. A. Brininstool.
Boston: Houghton Mifflin.
Suina, J. H. (1988). When I went to school. In R. Cocking & J. P.Mestre
(Eds.), Linguistic and cultural influences on learning mathematics (pp.
295-299). Hillsdale, N.J.: Lawrence Erlbaum Associates.
Szasz, M. C. (1988). Indian education in the American colonies, 1607-1783.
Albuquerque: University of New Mexico.
Szasz, M. C. (1977). Education and the American Indian: The road to
self-determination since 1928, 2nd ed. Albuquerque: University of New
Mexico.
Task Force Five: Indian Education. (1976). Report on Indian education: Final
report to the American Indian Policy Review Commission. Washington, DC: U.S.
Government Printing Office.
Thompson, H. (1975). The Navajos' long walk for education: A history of
Navajo education. Tsaile, AZ: Navajo Community College.
United States Commission on Civil Rights. (1975, September). The Navajo
Nation: An American colony. Washington, DC: Author.
Wax, M. L. (1971). Indian Americans: Unity and diversity. Englewood Cliffs,
NJ: Prentice-Hall.
http://libweb.princeton.edu:2003/libraries/firestone/rbsc/finding_aids/aaia/
aaia.html
http://www.nross.com/namohist.htm#volume2 (tape with boarding school first
person narrative)
***And just incase that isn't enough, here's a bucket more:
Punishment:
Two of our girls ran away...but they got caught. They tied their legs up,
tied their hands behind their backs, put them in the middle of the hallway
so that if they fell, fell asleep or something, the matron would hear them
and she'd get out there and whip them and make them stand up again. (Helma
Ward, Makah, interview with Carolyn Marr)
"The placement of North American Indian youngsters in residential boarding
schools - and the abusive treatment they received there - is a part of our
history that is seldom talked about."
http://staff.lib.muohio.edu/nawpa/manuelHaskell.html
"Its effects, they say, were more devastating than the sexual assaults and
beatings that occurred in at least some of the 125 Indian Residential
Schools from the mid-19th century until the 1970s."
http://www.vanessascollection.com/main/2000/9-24indian.html
Through the Eyes of a Basketweaver
Creation Section
Dir., photo dir.: Vern Korb
Documentary. While she weaves her baskets according to traditional
techniques of the Hupa, Yurok and Karuk nations, Vivien Hailstone re-weaves
the historical and cultural background of these Northern California peoples.
She tells of the near disappearance of this art when, as a young girl in a
boarding school, she was forbidden to express her heritage, either through
her language or the practice of a craft passed on by her grandmother.
"Also, beginning in the 1880s, boarding schools were established, resulting
in the forced separation of children from their families. Language Loss and
Revitalization in California , By Leanne Hinton, Department of Linguistics,
University of California, Berkeley"
"Like many of our parents and grandparents, he was sent to a boarding school
and punished for using his language. People of the Seventh Fire by Dagmar
Thorpe"
"Boarding Schools or Concentration Camps? The end of the Gold Rush era
signaled a change in U.S. policy towards Native people. Instead of directly
killing California indigenous people, reservations were created and
indigenous people were re-located to them. The children were taken, often by
force, away from their parents and to far-away re-education centers.
Children as young as four attended these re-education centers. They were
forced to cut their hair and give up their clothing upon arrival.
Children could not have visitors, including their parents, while they stayed
at the centers. Some children stayed for years at a time. Indian children
were often farmed out as free labor to white settlers in boarding school
communities, and sometimes sold outright at auctions held by boarding school
teachers." http://www.originalvoices.org/USGovtRolesSix.htm
"You know how I was raised? In a boarding school, being slapped across the
face, beaten for being an Indian, feeling ashamed of the color of my skin."
Sweet Tears and Bitter Pills, Mariana Kawall Leal Ferreira.
"The model for what became an entire system was the Carlisle Indian School,
established in Pennsylvania in 1875 by Captain Richard Henry Pratt, a man
whose main qualification for the task seems to have been that he'd earlier
served as warden of a military prison at Fort Marion, Florida. Following
Pratt's stated objective of "killing the Indian" in each student, Carlisle
and other such facilities-Chilocco, Albuquerque, Phoenix, Haskell,
Riverside; by 1902, there were two-dozen of thern-systematically
"deculturated" their pupils. Children brought to the schools as young as age
six were denied most or all direct contact with their families and societies
for years on end. They were shorn of their hair and required to dress in the
manner of Euro-America, forbidden to speak their languages or practice their
religions, prevented from learning their own histories or being in any other
way socialized among their own people.
Individual native families and, often, whole societies resisted the process.
In 1891, and again in 1893, Congress authorized the use of police, troops
and other forcible means to compel the transfer of children from reservation
to boarding school, and to keep them there once they'd arrived. Hence,
despite the best efforts of their elders, and not infrequently of the
students themselves, a total of 21,568 indigenous children--about a third of
the targeted age group-were confined in the schools in 1900. As of the late
1920s, the system had been diversified and expanded to the point that
upwards of eighty percent of each successive generation of native youth was
being comprehensively "acculturated" in a more-or-less uniform fashion."
http://www.zmag.org/ZMag/articles/jan98ward.htm
"According to many observers, the regimen of the schools usually included
getting Indians to dress, speak, and act like white people (see for example,
Whiteman, 1986)."
"At that time Indians were not U.S. citizens, and they lacked the right to
control their own lives and the education of their children (Eder & Reyhner,
1988; Whiteman, 1986)."
://www.zmag.org/ZMag/articles/jan98ward.htm
"Indian Commissioner Thomas J. Morgan wrote in 1889 that "the Indians must
conform 'to the white man's ways,' peaceably if they will, forcibly if they
must." Many Indians began their education at this time in boarding schools,
often far from home, where they had their hair cut, where their native
clothes were replaced, and where they were often punished for speaking their
own languages (Whiteman, 1986)."
http://www.ed.gov/databases/ERIC_Digests/ed314228.html
While some Indian resistance was crushed by dramatic massacres, for the most
part it was subdued by a combination of disease, alcohol, food rationing,
the cooperation of Indian collaborators, and the theft of children for
boarding schools - a situation not radically unlike today.
http://www.cwis.org/fwdp/Americas/anti-ind.txt
Pictures:
http://content.lib.washington.edu/cgi-bin/pview.exe?CISOROOT=/loc&CISOPTR=18
27&CISORESTMP=/aipnw/search-templates/aipnw-results.html&CISOVIEWTMP=/aipnw/
search-templates/aipnw-view1.html&CISOCLICK=title:subjec
Sharon Rudd
Dear Lynda
That was an impressive bibliography! please email me
off list and tell me how you did it. I have a few
clues, but my way of researching is so old fashioned,
I'm a card catalogue vintage hunter!!
And I am an Indian (yes, lots of us use that word)
with a roll number. Does that make me authentic? Ha!
I haven't read all the 98 other posts in my inbox yet,
but I bet your is the only annotated OPINION! Most of
my opinions are entirely subjective. I would have to
put myself at the bottom of the page.
Fortunately I got to miss all of that horror. My own
experiences, there, are vicarious. And you, Lynda,
what is your personal connection? Besides proving
your validity. If my question is not too intrusive,
you may answer me off list.....or on. If I am too
personal in my query please forgive me.
Thanks, Sharon
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices
http://auctions.yahoo.com/
That was an impressive bibliography! please email me
off list and tell me how you did it. I have a few
clues, but my way of researching is so old fashioned,
I'm a card catalogue vintage hunter!!
And I am an Indian (yes, lots of us use that word)
with a roll number. Does that make me authentic? Ha!
I haven't read all the 98 other posts in my inbox yet,
but I bet your is the only annotated OPINION! Most of
my opinions are entirely subjective. I would have to
put myself at the bottom of the page.
Fortunately I got to miss all of that horror. My own
experiences, there, are vicarious. And you, Lynda,
what is your personal connection? Besides proving
your validity. If my question is not too intrusive,
you may answer me off list.....or on. If I am too
personal in my query please forgive me.
Thanks, Sharon
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices
http://auctions.yahoo.com/
Sharon Rudd
Dear Lynda
I'm afraid I skimmed most of your post, however that
bibliography is really impressive! How did you do it
so fast? I'm such an old fashioned sort of
researcher. More the card-catalogue vintage type of
hunter. Would you please email me, off list, with how
to do a search like that? That would be a VERY useful
thing to know how to do.
My own opinions are entirely subjective, dunno how I
would footnote myself. Ha! And even though I, like so
many others, have a mixed ancestry, I am an Indian
with a roll number......does that make me authentic?
No, a number doesn't do anything but mark a spot.
You made a reference, somewhere, to fake Indian sites.
Perhaps you should be careful what you search for.
Perhaps we each find what we are looking for.
Also, Wannabees are not the worst sort of person. At
least they are trying! So many don't make an effort at
all. Collectors are a different sort, they aren't
really Wannabees, even. More a Wasichu (spelling?)
type. Ya know....... still even that is a
generalization. Who knows, there might be an
enlightened artifact collector somewhere. Ha!
And Lynda, if it isn't too personal, what is your
Indian connection? If you want to answer you can email
me off list, or on. But is is off topic. If my
questions are too intrusive, please forgive me.
Thanks for pointing out things from an outlook that is
different from most. Like a hawk, you see acutely,
but you vision is narrow. It is not the usual way to
view the world. It is good for me to be aware of the
view from where you are.
Thank you for sharing your thoughts
Sharon
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices
http://auctions.yahoo.com/
I'm afraid I skimmed most of your post, however that
bibliography is really impressive! How did you do it
so fast? I'm such an old fashioned sort of
researcher. More the card-catalogue vintage type of
hunter. Would you please email me, off list, with how
to do a search like that? That would be a VERY useful
thing to know how to do.
My own opinions are entirely subjective, dunno how I
would footnote myself. Ha! And even though I, like so
many others, have a mixed ancestry, I am an Indian
with a roll number......does that make me authentic?
No, a number doesn't do anything but mark a spot.
You made a reference, somewhere, to fake Indian sites.
Perhaps you should be careful what you search for.
Perhaps we each find what we are looking for.
Also, Wannabees are not the worst sort of person. At
least they are trying! So many don't make an effort at
all. Collectors are a different sort, they aren't
really Wannabees, even. More a Wasichu (spelling?)
type. Ya know....... still even that is a
generalization. Who knows, there might be an
enlightened artifact collector somewhere. Ha!
And Lynda, if it isn't too personal, what is your
Indian connection? If you want to answer you can email
me off list, or on. But is is off topic. If my
questions are too intrusive, please forgive me.
Thanks for pointing out things from an outlook that is
different from most. Like a hawk, you see acutely,
but you vision is narrow. It is not the usual way to
view the world. It is good for me to be aware of the
view from where you are.
Thank you for sharing your thoughts
Sharon
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices
http://auctions.yahoo.com/