RE. Breastfeding/books
[email protected]
1st. Just want you all to know I dont smoke dope or take any other
sustance and never have!
I ask the question re dope and breastfeding because a relative does
smoke and does breastfed and i always feel that her baby (well - 18
month old) seems, well, slow........
2nd. I too loved the Anne Frank books. We had a Anne Frank
exhabition here in Auckland a few years ago, which I found very
interesting. I like the *Roots* movies too.
Well, I,m off to work now ladies. have a good day
marianne
sustance and never have!
I ask the question re dope and breastfeding because a relative does
smoke and does breastfed and i always feel that her baby (well - 18
month old) seems, well, slow........
2nd. I too loved the Anne Frank books. We had a Anne Frank
exhabition here in Auckland a few years ago, which I found very
interesting. I like the *Roots* movies too.
Well, I,m off to work now ladies. have a good day
marianne
[email protected]
Medical Fact: Babies born to mothers who smoke are usually underweight and sometimes fail to thrive. They are also more likely to contract upper respiratory diseases and allergies. The latter also applies to children who are exposed to second hand smoke. Also you better believe that the tar and nicotene are in mother's milk if she smokes. Nicotene is a depresant which may account for the baby seeming slow.
Donna
[email protected] wrote:
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Donna
[email protected] wrote:
>__________________________________________________________________
> 1st. Just want you all to know I dont smoke dope or take any other
> sustance and never have!
> I ask the question re dope and breastfeding because a relative does
> smoke and does breastfed and i always feel that her baby (well - 18
> month old) seems, well, slow........
>
> 2nd. I too loved the Anne Frank books. We had a Anne Frank
> exhabition here in Auckland a few years ago, which I found very
> interesting. I like the *Roots* movies too.
>
> Well, I,m off to work now ladies. have a good day
> marianne
>
>
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Bobbie
Well, my ex-husband's mom was very much into
"dope-smoking", as was his dad, and did so during her
entire pregnancy and with him as a child. (He
eventually was raised by his grandparents cuz the way
she was doing it was basically abusive, all things
considered.)
It definitely had an impact. He is severely manic
depressive, ADHD, anger problems, etc, etc, etc...
He has an automatic tendency to be addicted to any and
everything and has a constant need for outside
stimuli.
He was concieved & born an alcoholic/druggie, he says.
A friend of mine smoked during her whole pregnancy
(cigs and weed) and her babies are very noticably
"slow", too. Though other than asthma they have no
definite medical diagnosis of health/mental problems,
and are just barely behind on the blessed doctor's
charts.
She always thought "it's not really good for them,
but..."....then one day she found her baby boy (around
1) eating a cigarette under the table. and liking it.
:(
Yes, it definitely DOES have an affect, if you ask me.
In the book "The Secret Life of the Unborn Child"
(LOVE IT), there is a part that talks about a study
that was done on smoking pregnant women, and it showed
that when a woman even THOUGHT about lighting up,
before she even did anything, the baby in utero would
exhibit signs of panic.
Just thought I'd share.
-Bobbie
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"dope-smoking", as was his dad, and did so during her
entire pregnancy and with him as a child. (He
eventually was raised by his grandparents cuz the way
she was doing it was basically abusive, all things
considered.)
It definitely had an impact. He is severely manic
depressive, ADHD, anger problems, etc, etc, etc...
He has an automatic tendency to be addicted to any and
everything and has a constant need for outside
stimuli.
He was concieved & born an alcoholic/druggie, he says.
A friend of mine smoked during her whole pregnancy
(cigs and weed) and her babies are very noticably
"slow", too. Though other than asthma they have no
definite medical diagnosis of health/mental problems,
and are just barely behind on the blessed doctor's
charts.
She always thought "it's not really good for them,
but..."....then one day she found her baby boy (around
1) eating a cigarette under the table. and liking it.
:(
Yes, it definitely DOES have an affect, if you ask me.
In the book "The Secret Life of the Unborn Child"
(LOVE IT), there is a part that talks about a study
that was done on smoking pregnant women, and it showed
that when a woman even THOUGHT about lighting up,
before she even did anything, the baby in utero would
exhibit signs of panic.
Just thought I'd share.
-Bobbie
> I ask the question re dope and breastfeding__________________________________________________
> because a relative does
> smoke and does breastfed and i always feel that
> her baby (well - 18
> month old) seems, well, slow........
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Bobbie
oh, and yes I realize the question was about
breastfeeding, not pregnancy, but my point was the
same. If it has an affect on a grown up, and on the
baby while it is protected in utero, and if diet and
alcohol have an affect on breastmilk, then youb et
smoking does. Just thought I'd clarify that I'm not an
idiot. I just went off on JUST the pregnancy part this
time. :)
-Bobbie
--- djhlatham@... wrote:
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breastfeeding, not pregnancy, but my point was the
same. If it has an affect on a grown up, and on the
baby while it is protected in utero, and if diet and
alcohol have an affect on breastmilk, then youb et
smoking does. Just thought I'd clarify that I'm not an
idiot. I just went off on JUST the pregnancy part this
time. :)
-Bobbie
--- djhlatham@... wrote:
> > I ask the question re dope and breastfeding__________________________________________________
> because a relative does
> > smoke and does breastfed and i always feel that
> her baby (well - 18
> > month old) seems, well, slow........
> >
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[email protected]
In a message dated 5/12/01 1:47:16 PM, insomniaaks@... writes:
<< It definitely had an impact. He is severely manic
depressive, ADHD, anger problems, etc, etc, etc...
He has an automatic tendency to be addicted to any and
everything and has a constant need for outside
stimuli.
He was concieved & born an alcoholic/druggie, he says. >>
My mom's a practicing alcoholic. She took a nine-year break a few years
back. It was nice. Of three offspring, I am not alcoholic (or the more
general "substance dependent"), my sister is (and so abstains) and my
half-brother (who had two alcoholic parents, not just one as my sister and I
did) is BIGTIME dependent.
He's FAS (fetal alcohol syndrome) too, but those aren't the same thing. One
(according to current belief) is from too much alcohol while in development,
and the other (the alcoholism) is genetic and would have happened even with a
surrogate-pregnancy or even if my mom had been abstaining from alcohol
entirely during the pregnancy.
I'm glad for my kids not to be around tobacco and alcohol as so many other
kids are (and even more were, in the past). We own some alcohol, but it's
not touched over once or twice a month, if that, and then it's light. The
bottles are dusty. Good for my kids.
As to smoking dope while nursing and the baby seeming slow, that too might be
plain old genetics. Not everyone's zippy and bright-eyed. Then again, some
zippy and bright-eyed people don't make much of their lives, and some who
seem slow are actually full of thought and ability, it just doesn't have the
same outside manifestation.
Sandra
<< It definitely had an impact. He is severely manic
depressive, ADHD, anger problems, etc, etc, etc...
He has an automatic tendency to be addicted to any and
everything and has a constant need for outside
stimuli.
He was concieved & born an alcoholic/druggie, he says. >>
My mom's a practicing alcoholic. She took a nine-year break a few years
back. It was nice. Of three offspring, I am not alcoholic (or the more
general "substance dependent"), my sister is (and so abstains) and my
half-brother (who had two alcoholic parents, not just one as my sister and I
did) is BIGTIME dependent.
He's FAS (fetal alcohol syndrome) too, but those aren't the same thing. One
(according to current belief) is from too much alcohol while in development,
and the other (the alcoholism) is genetic and would have happened even with a
surrogate-pregnancy or even if my mom had been abstaining from alcohol
entirely during the pregnancy.
I'm glad for my kids not to be around tobacco and alcohol as so many other
kids are (and even more were, in the past). We own some alcohol, but it's
not touched over once or twice a month, if that, and then it's light. The
bottles are dusty. Good for my kids.
As to smoking dope while nursing and the baby seeming slow, that too might be
plain old genetics. Not everyone's zippy and bright-eyed. Then again, some
zippy and bright-eyed people don't make much of their lives, and some who
seem slow are actually full of thought and ability, it just doesn't have the
same outside manifestation.
Sandra
[email protected]
Here is a reference for marijuana and breastfeeding:
Perez-Reyes M, Wall ME: Presence of tetrahydrocannabinol in human milk.
N Engl J Med. 1982;307:819.
Mary Ellen
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Perez-Reyes M, Wall ME: Presence of tetrahydrocannabinol in human milk.
N Engl J Med. 1982;307:819.
Mary Ellen
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Lynda
There is no medical evidence to support this theory, in fact, there have
been several studies to the contrary.
"A study described in Pediatrics 1994; 93:254-260, (Dreher MC, Nugent K and
Hudgins R) compared the babies of Rastafarian mothers (smoking up to 5
joints a day) and non-smoking controls. Both groups of mothers were
breastfeeding. After one month, the babies of the heavily smoking mothers
scored better on the developmental testing done. The speculation was that
the Rastafarian mothers had better social networking and support for being
new mothers.
All this evidence goes against the mainstream belief that marijuana is bad.
-Nikki Lee RN, MSN
And from Merck, Section 22, Chapter 247: "No conclusive evidence that
marijuana causes birth defects or interferes with fetal growth and
development has been found. However, studies suggest that heavy use of
marijuana during pregnancy may lead to abnormal behavior in newborns."
There are dozens of references on the net and the majority state that there
is no conclusive evidence.
In fact, one study goes on to state that the reason there is no conclusive
evidence against weed is that almost all of the mothers who smoked weed and
who had babies with neurological problems, low birth weights, etc., also
smoked cigerettes, drank or did other drugs. The general concensus is that
the babies would have had the same problems even if the mother had given up
the weed because the damage would have been done by the bad habits they had.
Lynda
been several studies to the contrary.
"A study described in Pediatrics 1994; 93:254-260, (Dreher MC, Nugent K and
Hudgins R) compared the babies of Rastafarian mothers (smoking up to 5
joints a day) and non-smoking controls. Both groups of mothers were
breastfeeding. After one month, the babies of the heavily smoking mothers
scored better on the developmental testing done. The speculation was that
the Rastafarian mothers had better social networking and support for being
new mothers.
All this evidence goes against the mainstream belief that marijuana is bad.
-Nikki Lee RN, MSN
And from Merck, Section 22, Chapter 247: "No conclusive evidence that
marijuana causes birth defects or interferes with fetal growth and
development has been found. However, studies suggest that heavy use of
marijuana during pregnancy may lead to abnormal behavior in newborns."
There are dozens of references on the net and the majority state that there
is no conclusive evidence.
In fact, one study goes on to state that the reason there is no conclusive
evidence against weed is that almost all of the mothers who smoked weed and
who had babies with neurological problems, low birth weights, etc., also
smoked cigerettes, drank or did other drugs. The general concensus is that
the babies would have had the same problems even if the mother had given up
the weed because the damage would have been done by the bad habits they had.
Lynda
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bobbie" <insomniaaks@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, May 12, 2001 12:46 PM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] RE. Breastfeding/books
> Well, my ex-husband's mom was very much into
> "dope-smoking", as was his dad, and did so during her
> entire pregnancy and with him as a child. (He
> eventually was raised by his grandparents cuz the way
> she was doing it was basically abusive, all things
> considered.)
> It definitely had an impact. He is severely manic
> depressive, ADHD, anger problems, etc, etc, etc...
> He has an automatic tendency to be addicted to any and
> everything and has a constant need for outside
> stimuli.
> He was concieved & born an alcoholic/druggie, he says.
>
> A friend of mine smoked during her whole pregnancy
> (cigs and weed) and her babies are very noticably
> "slow", too. Though other than asthma they have no
> definite medical diagnosis of health/mental problems,
> and are just barely behind on the blessed doctor's
> charts.
> She always thought "it's not really good for them,
> but..."....then one day she found her baby boy (around
> 1) eating a cigarette under the table. and liking it.
> :(
> Yes, it definitely DOES have an affect, if you ask me.
> In the book "The Secret Life of the Unborn Child"
> (LOVE IT), there is a part that talks about a study
> that was done on smoking pregnant women, and it showed
> that when a woman even THOUGHT about lighting up,
> before she even did anything, the baby in utero would
> exhibit signs of panic.
> Just thought I'd share.
> -Bobbie
>
>
>
> > I ask the question re dope and breastfeding
> > because a relative does
> > smoke and does breastfed and i always feel that
> > her baby (well - 18
> > month old) seems, well, slow........
>
>
> __________________________________________________
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> Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices
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> Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
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>
> To unsubscribe, set preferences, or read archives:
> http://www.egroups.com/group/Unschooling-dotcom
>
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>
>
>
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>
>
Bobbie
True. I was thinking about that after I wrote that. I
have friends who were sooo healthy and did everything
"right" in their pregnancies and immediately
thereafter, abstaining from evertying remotely
dangerous or questionable and their babies had all
sorts of health problems, autism, "slow"ness, etc,
what have you, and then there are some who walk a very
thin line of "danger" all thru their pregnancies, take
no precautions with their babies and the babies are as
far as I can tell just fine. I guess I was
generalizing a wee bit. shame on me. I hate it when
other people do that.
generalize that is. :)
-Bobbie
--- SandraDodd@... wrote:
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have friends who were sooo healthy and did everything
"right" in their pregnancies and immediately
thereafter, abstaining from evertying remotely
dangerous or questionable and their babies had all
sorts of health problems, autism, "slow"ness, etc,
what have you, and then there are some who walk a very
thin line of "danger" all thru their pregnancies, take
no precautions with their babies and the babies are as
far as I can tell just fine. I guess I was
generalizing a wee bit. shame on me. I hate it when
other people do that.
generalize that is. :)
-Bobbie
--- SandraDodd@... wrote:
>__________________________________________________
> As to smoking dope while nursing and the baby
> seeming slow, that too might be
> plain old genetics. Not everyone's zippy and
> bright-eyed. Then again, some
> zippy and bright-eyed people don't make much of
> their lives, and some who
> seem slow are actually full of thought and ability,
> it just doesn't have the
> same outside manifestation.
>
> Sandra
>
>
>
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Annette Yunker
>Ihave friends who were sooo healthy and did everythingPlease pardon the Biblical reference - I do not mean to offend:
>"right" in their pregnancies and immediately
>thereafter, abstaining from evertying remotely
>dangerous or questionable and their babies had all
>sorts of health problems, autism, "slow"ness, etc,
>what have you, and then there are some who walk a very
>thin line of "danger" all thru their pregnancies, take
>no precautions with their babies and the babies are as
>far as I can tell just fine.
An M.D. at an integrative clinic explained to me that the "sins of the mother and father to the third and fourth generation" can be interpreted from a health perspective. In other words, there is a genotypic influence on health. Why some individuals or families seem to secumb to the slightest assault of bacteria, virus, pollen, toxin, etc may have much to do with the cumulative effect generationally. This does not mean that we are doomed by these genes, as much can be done to alter the phenotypic expression of the genes (a person genotypically destined to high blood pressure, for instance, can, by change of diet and lifestyle, phenotypically express health devoid of high blood pressure). We can see this healing in the list members who report great success in treating their depression, allergies, or dc's autism with encouraging and often astounding result.
The experiment with Dr. Pottenger's cats began with healthy cats and altered the diet, with one subset of this group becoming infertile by the fourth generation.
Incidentally, the physician referenced above first asks each patient what their spiritual/religious beliefs are, if any, before treating them. The mind-body connection portion of the treatment is then tailored in such a way as to obtain optimal result for each individual patient. What this physician's individual belief system is, I do not know, but I have benefited from his healing touch.
Annette
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Bobbie
Oh, let me clarify this real quick. I didn't intend to
say WEED was what was bad, but was mainly referring to
smoking cigarettes. (And other things that should not
be smoked while with child...or ever really, in my
opinion....)
But all the people I've known who smoked cigs while
pregnant or breastfeeding were also smoking weed, so I
mentioned it too, as that was what was being asked
about.
Actually "dope" was the term used, so that covers a
much broader spectrum for me.
I forget that when most people say that they really
just mean marijuana. :)
That's what I get for having people float in and out
of my life always that have detailed meanings on
several different levels of what could be considered
"dope" to be smoked.
I don't know about the kids being "slow..." cuz of
their breastfeeding mom smoking weed.
I think it really does depend on the genetics...
not to say that they would genetically be inclined to
be "slow" or something without the weed, but the
genetics of how their mom, family, etc, is affected
personally by smoking weed.
Example: I know some people who smoke a hella heap of
weed and are not in the least the typical "stoned"
picture of a person, with no short term memory
whatsoever. Actually are all the more intelligent and
openminded for it.
But then I know some people who smoke weed and I can't
handle trying to talk to them cuz it is like a mini
groundhog day episode. The same paragraph of words
over and over again. Always as though it's a new
experience for them.
It's all about the tolerance, says I.
I also think that using rastafarian moms as an example
is both good and bad, cuz DUH of course their babies
were scoring high, regardless of weed, diet, race,
genetics, whatever... they were being raised in a very
conscious, very loving, open, supportive enviroment.
But unfortunately those are not the people that are
usually being referred to when someone talks about
smoking weed. Sadly, alot of the time, it is young
mothers (or young at heart anyway), with little or no
support, who are depressed, or looked down upon for
one reason or another, who don't have the education
(not "schooling" mind you.) to be able to be those
intelligent open minded types, who smoke weed when
they "party" and drink, and have a cig to go along
with it. I think those are the ones that we usually
refer to. I've never heard anyone say "yeah she's a
great mom, she's got that whole rastafarian thing goin
on. great support system. kid's so open minded and
loving. really really smart. too bad she smokes dope
around it though, even while she's breastfeeding. that
can't be helping."
Just a thought. I'm rambly tonight, people, no one
take me serious enough to be offended, please.
When I spoke of my ex's mom and dad I meant they
smoked cigs, CRACK, what have you.
Gave him whiskey in his bottle instead of milk, etc.
So I wasn't talking about them smoking weed, I was
talking about "drug use" in general.
And the study in the book I mentioned was about
smoking tabacco.
Just wanted to clear that up. :)
I was the one who posted weed as a help for arthritis
pain.
I only think that whatever the substance is, it
depends on how it affects you PERSONALLY and the
addictive capacity for you and your potential person
in utero.
Let's say some people react badly to orange juice.
To those people I suggest laying off the OJ. ;)
I think balance is in order for anything.
Sometimes too much of a good thing.....
-Bobbie
--- Lynda <lurine@...> wrote:
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say WEED was what was bad, but was mainly referring to
smoking cigarettes. (And other things that should not
be smoked while with child...or ever really, in my
opinion....)
But all the people I've known who smoked cigs while
pregnant or breastfeeding were also smoking weed, so I
mentioned it too, as that was what was being asked
about.
Actually "dope" was the term used, so that covers a
much broader spectrum for me.
I forget that when most people say that they really
just mean marijuana. :)
That's what I get for having people float in and out
of my life always that have detailed meanings on
several different levels of what could be considered
"dope" to be smoked.
I don't know about the kids being "slow..." cuz of
their breastfeeding mom smoking weed.
I think it really does depend on the genetics...
not to say that they would genetically be inclined to
be "slow" or something without the weed, but the
genetics of how their mom, family, etc, is affected
personally by smoking weed.
Example: I know some people who smoke a hella heap of
weed and are not in the least the typical "stoned"
picture of a person, with no short term memory
whatsoever. Actually are all the more intelligent and
openminded for it.
But then I know some people who smoke weed and I can't
handle trying to talk to them cuz it is like a mini
groundhog day episode. The same paragraph of words
over and over again. Always as though it's a new
experience for them.
It's all about the tolerance, says I.
I also think that using rastafarian moms as an example
is both good and bad, cuz DUH of course their babies
were scoring high, regardless of weed, diet, race,
genetics, whatever... they were being raised in a very
conscious, very loving, open, supportive enviroment.
But unfortunately those are not the people that are
usually being referred to when someone talks about
smoking weed. Sadly, alot of the time, it is young
mothers (or young at heart anyway), with little or no
support, who are depressed, or looked down upon for
one reason or another, who don't have the education
(not "schooling" mind you.) to be able to be those
intelligent open minded types, who smoke weed when
they "party" and drink, and have a cig to go along
with it. I think those are the ones that we usually
refer to. I've never heard anyone say "yeah she's a
great mom, she's got that whole rastafarian thing goin
on. great support system. kid's so open minded and
loving. really really smart. too bad she smokes dope
around it though, even while she's breastfeeding. that
can't be helping."
Just a thought. I'm rambly tonight, people, no one
take me serious enough to be offended, please.
When I spoke of my ex's mom and dad I meant they
smoked cigs, CRACK, what have you.
Gave him whiskey in his bottle instead of milk, etc.
So I wasn't talking about them smoking weed, I was
talking about "drug use" in general.
And the study in the book I mentioned was about
smoking tabacco.
Just wanted to clear that up. :)
I was the one who posted weed as a help for arthritis
pain.
I only think that whatever the substance is, it
depends on how it affects you PERSONALLY and the
addictive capacity for you and your potential person
in utero.
Let's say some people react badly to orange juice.
To those people I suggest laying off the OJ. ;)
I think balance is in order for anything.
Sometimes too much of a good thing.....
-Bobbie
--- Lynda <lurine@...> wrote:
> There is no medical evidence to support this theory,__________________________________________________
> in fact, there have
> been several studies to the contrary.
>
> "A study described in Pediatrics 1994; 93:254-260,
> (Dreher MC, Nugent K and
> Hudgins R) compared the babies of Rastafarian
> mothers (smoking up to 5
> joints a day) and non-smoking controls. Both groups
> of mothers were
> breastfeeding. After one month, the babies of the
> heavily smoking mothers
> scored better on the developmental testing done. The
> speculation was that
> the Rastafarian mothers had better social networking
> and support for being
> new mothers.
> All this evidence goes against the mainstream belief
> that marijuana is bad.
> -Nikki Lee RN, MSN
>
> And from Merck, Section 22, Chapter 247: "No
> conclusive evidence that
> marijuana causes birth defects or interferes with
> fetal growth and
> development has been found. However, studies suggest
> that heavy use of
> marijuana during pregnancy may lead to abnormal
> behavior in newborns."
>
> There are dozens of references on the net and the
> majority state that there
> is no conclusive evidence.
>
> In fact, one study goes on to state that the reason
> there is no conclusive
> evidence against weed is that almost all of the
> mothers who smoked weed and
> who had babies with neurological problems, low birth
> weights, etc., also
> smoked cigerettes, drank or did other drugs. The
> general concensus is that
> the babies would have had the same problems even if
> the mother had given up
> the weed because the damage would have been done by
> the bad habits they had.
>
> Lynda
>
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Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices
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