Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Automatic dishwashers
Judie C. Rall
> I have a question for those of you choosing alternative diets and less chemically-laden supplies in your home.silverware is not completely clean, there's a film left on, probably from starchy veggies and pastas. A similar film is on the dishes. I have plastic (haven't found large glass jars yet) jugs for our raw goat's milk. I have a white film left on these that looks like detergent film, milk film,
>
> I am attempting to use something other than the Cascade type of dishwasher detergent. I have tried, either singly or in combination, the following: Borax, salt, baking soda, vinegar, Dr. Bonner's, and a couple of health food store brand formulas specifically for automatic dishwashers. My
or some combination.
I have a question.....do you rinse the dishes before putting them in
the dishwasher? You said that you were in "ill health"...does this
prevent you from rinsing them before you put them in? If not.....we
do not own a dishwasher. My husband wants to get me one, but I
said no.....because if you rinse the dishes before hand, you might
as well have washed them. It doesn't take any longer to wash than
it does to rinse (I've timed myself). Also, how old are your
children? They can start taking some of the responsibility of
washing, so it doesn't all fall on you. Also, if you have each person
wash their own dish, silverware, and glass and put them in the
drainer after they are done eating, there is virtually nothing to clean
up. Also, dishwashers use more water, electricity, and gas than
regular dish washing.
We use baking soda, salt, vinegar, and lemon juice to wash our
dishes by hand. No soap, no detergents. Lemon juice cuts the
grease, baking soda and salt provide abrasion to help loosen stuck
on stuff, with the help of one of those scrubber sponges.
Judie
Judie C. Rall
> I have a question for those of you choosing alternative diets and less chemically-laden supplies in your home.silverware is not completely clean, there's a film left on, probably from starchy veggies and pastas. A similar film is on the dishes. I have plastic (haven't found large glass jars yet) jugs for our raw goat's milk. I have a white film left on these that looks like detergent film, milk film,
>
> I am attempting to use something other than the Cascade type of dishwasher detergent. I have tried, either singly or in combination, the following: Borax, salt, baking soda, vinegar, Dr. Bonner's, and a couple of health food store brand formulas specifically for automatic dishwashers. My
or some combination.
I have a question.....do you rinse the dishes before putting them in
the dishwasher? You said that you were in "ill health"...does this
prevent you from rinsing them before you put them in? If not.....we
do not own a dishwasher. My husband wants to get me one, but I
said no.....because if you rinse the dishes before hand, you might
as well have washed them. It doesn't take any longer to wash than
it does to rinse (I've timed myself). Also, how old are your
children? They can start taking some of the responsibility of
washing, so it doesn't all fall on you. Also, if you have each person
wash their own dish, silverware, and glass and put them in the
drainer after they are done eating, there is virtually nothing to clean
up. Also, dishwashers use more water, electricity, and gas than
regular dish washing.
We use baking soda, salt, vinegar, and lemon juice to wash our
dishes by hand. No soap, no detergents. Lemon juice cuts the
grease, baking soda and salt provide abrasion to help loosen stuck
on stuff, with the help of one of those scrubber sponges.
Judie
Annette Yunker
I have a question for those of you choosing alternative diets and less chemically-laden supplies in your home.
I am attempting to use something other than the Cascade type of dishwasher detergent. I have tried, either singly or in combination, the following: Borax, salt, baking soda, vinegar, Dr. Bonner's, and a couple of health food store brand formulas specifically for automatic dishwashers. My silverware is not completely clean, there's a film left on, probably from starchy veggies and pastas. A similar film is on the dishes. I have plastic (haven't found large glass jars yet) jugs for our raw goat's milk. I have a white film left on these that looks like detergent film, milk film, or some combination.
I do not want to give up on this yet. I am committed to removing the harsh chemicals from our home. But the dirty dishes are a bit embarrassing, I do not wish to hand-wash as I am overwhelmed with ill-health and the needs of three severely allergic children. I do not know how much longer my husband will hold out on this issue as it is my commitment not his.
Any ideas? Annette
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I am attempting to use something other than the Cascade type of dishwasher detergent. I have tried, either singly or in combination, the following: Borax, salt, baking soda, vinegar, Dr. Bonner's, and a couple of health food store brand formulas specifically for automatic dishwashers. My silverware is not completely clean, there's a film left on, probably from starchy veggies and pastas. A similar film is on the dishes. I have plastic (haven't found large glass jars yet) jugs for our raw goat's milk. I have a white film left on these that looks like detergent film, milk film, or some combination.
I do not want to give up on this yet. I am committed to removing the harsh chemicals from our home. But the dirty dishes are a bit embarrassing, I do not wish to hand-wash as I am overwhelmed with ill-health and the needs of three severely allergic children. I do not know how much longer my husband will hold out on this issue as it is my commitment not his.
Any ideas? Annette
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Annette Yunker
I have a question.....do you rinse the dishes before putting them in
the dishwasher? You said that you were in "ill health"...does this
prevent you from rinsing them before you put them in?
We use baking soda, salt, vinegar, and lemon juice to wash our
dishes by hand. No soap, no detergents. Lemon juice cuts the
grease, baking soda and salt provide abrasion to help loosen stuck
on stuff, with the help of one of those scrubber sponges.
Judie,
We rinse first if necessary, and the children are beginning to do much of this. They are 4,6,and 8 yo. Part of the problem is that we generate so many dishes daily due to our diet. We have only one sink, not divided. I've tried placing a liner in part and then still having access to the drain and disposal, but my husband doesn't get this concept, and places dishes in the part that's clear so I can get to the drain. My husband does the dishwasher loading in the evenings and then puts them away in the morning. He does not rinse much. He also will put the dishes away dirty! We do use the shortest wash cycle and the air dry.
Do you have a specific recipe or formula for your dishwashing?
Thanks, Annette
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
the dishwasher? You said that you were in "ill health"...does this
prevent you from rinsing them before you put them in?
We use baking soda, salt, vinegar, and lemon juice to wash our
dishes by hand. No soap, no detergents. Lemon juice cuts the
grease, baking soda and salt provide abrasion to help loosen stuck
on stuff, with the help of one of those scrubber sponges.
Judie,
We rinse first if necessary, and the children are beginning to do much of this. They are 4,6,and 8 yo. Part of the problem is that we generate so many dishes daily due to our diet. We have only one sink, not divided. I've tried placing a liner in part and then still having access to the drain and disposal, but my husband doesn't get this concept, and places dishes in the part that's clear so I can get to the drain. My husband does the dishwasher loading in the evenings and then puts them away in the morning. He does not rinse much. He also will put the dishes away dirty! We do use the shortest wash cycle and the air dry.
Do you have a specific recipe or formula for your dishwashing?
Thanks, Annette
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Judie C. Rall
Annette,
We have two sinks, but I filter water in one of them, and wash in
the other. I also don't fill the sink up with water and cover the
dishes. I don't like trying to get dishes clean using water that is full
of food, grease, etc. I keep the water running in a small stream....I
guess you could turn it off in-between, but it's a lot of trouble....and
the drain open. I have two shaker bottles and two squirt bottles.
One shaker has salt, the other shaker has baking soda. One quirt
bottle has vinegar, the other has lemon juice. They sit beside the
sink, ready to be used when needed. I use a stiff boar-bristle brush
with a long handle, and a soft sponge. If something is greasy, I
start out with lemon juice. I squirt some on, and use the scrubber
sponge to spread it around and wash off the grease. If there is
stuck on food, I will then probably sprinkle on some salt and scrub
it around, loosening up the food. It's really hard to describe which
one to use on which kind of dirty dish, you really just have to
experiment with them. But I find it an easy way to get the dishes
clean. Oh, sometimes I will put both vinegar and baking soda in a
dish with something really stuck on, and get that natural scrubbing
bubbles action.
Judie
We have two sinks, but I filter water in one of them, and wash in
the other. I also don't fill the sink up with water and cover the
dishes. I don't like trying to get dishes clean using water that is full
of food, grease, etc. I keep the water running in a small stream....I
guess you could turn it off in-between, but it's a lot of trouble....and
the drain open. I have two shaker bottles and two squirt bottles.
One shaker has salt, the other shaker has baking soda. One quirt
bottle has vinegar, the other has lemon juice. They sit beside the
sink, ready to be used when needed. I use a stiff boar-bristle brush
with a long handle, and a soft sponge. If something is greasy, I
start out with lemon juice. I squirt some on, and use the scrubber
sponge to spread it around and wash off the grease. If there is
stuck on food, I will then probably sprinkle on some salt and scrub
it around, loosening up the food. It's really hard to describe which
one to use on which kind of dirty dish, you really just have to
experiment with them. But I find it an easy way to get the dishes
clean. Oh, sometimes I will put both vinegar and baking soda in a
dish with something really stuck on, and get that natural scrubbing
bubbles action.
Judie
Judie C. Rall
> I do not believe this to be true. Modern dishwashers use very little waterBut not using one at all uses no electricity.
> and if your water is hot from your oil burner before it goes into your
> dishwasher, it uses very little electricity.
Also if you buy a good
> dishwasher, you do not need to rinse the dishes before it washes them.Every dishwasher I have ever had, the instruction manuel said you
had to rinse the dishes first. In the first home we ever had, I didn't
read the instruction manual, and shortly after we moved in there,
the dishwasher started leaking water out into the floor. We called
a repairman, who promptly pulled out the trap in the bottom of the
dishwasher, which was full of food. He told me it was imperative to
rinse the dishes first, because the food particles can stop up the
drain which empties the water out of the dishwasher.
So, I am only going by personal experience and what the
instruction book said.
Also, there is something very satisfying about washing them by
hand, having the water running over your hands, using natural
materials....I've tried to get my kids to understand that anything
can be a spiritual experience if you think of it in that way. I know,
you are probably laughing right now thinking about washing dishes
as a spiritual experience. But sometimes, the only way I can
make myself do something I really don't want to do is to give it
special meaning, and find something about it I can appreciate and
enjoy.
Judie
The
> only thing my dishwasher doens' t get off dishes is cream of wheat. I may
> look it up for you later to see how much electricity and water it uses, but
> right now I am wiped out.
>
> Angela (who loves her dishwasher)
> It doesn't take any longer to wash than
> it does to rinse (I've timed myself). Also, how old are your
> children? They can start taking some of the responsibility of
> washing, so it doesn't all fall on you. Also, if you have each person
> wash their own dish, silverware, and glass and put them in the
> drainer after they are done eating, there is virtually nothing to clean
> up. Also, dishwashers use more water, electricity, and gas than
> regular dish washing.
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
> Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com
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>
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>
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>
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>
>
Angela
I do not believe this to be true. Modern dishwashers use very little water
and if your water is hot from your oil burner before it goes into your
dishwasher, it uses very little electricity. Also if you buy a good
dishwasher, you do not need to rinse the dishes before it washes them. The
only thing my dishwasher doens' t get off dishes is cream of wheat. I may
look it up for you later to see how much electricity and water it uses, but
right now I am wiped out.
Angela (who loves her dishwasher)
It doesn't take any longer to wash than
it does to rinse (I've timed myself). Also, how old are your
children? They can start taking some of the responsibility of
washing, so it doesn't all fall on you. Also, if you have each person
wash their own dish, silverware, and glass and put them in the
drainer after they are done eating, there is virtually nothing to clean
up. Also, dishwashers use more water, electricity, and gas than
regular dish washing.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
and if your water is hot from your oil burner before it goes into your
dishwasher, it uses very little electricity. Also if you buy a good
dishwasher, you do not need to rinse the dishes before it washes them. The
only thing my dishwasher doens' t get off dishes is cream of wheat. I may
look it up for you later to see how much electricity and water it uses, but
right now I am wiped out.
Angela (who loves her dishwasher)
It doesn't take any longer to wash than
it does to rinse (I've timed myself). Also, how old are your
children? They can start taking some of the responsibility of
washing, so it doesn't all fall on you. Also, if you have each person
wash their own dish, silverware, and glass and put them in the
drainer after they are done eating, there is virtually nothing to clean
up. Also, dishwashers use more water, electricity, and gas than
regular dish washing.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Lynda
Just a note for folks with allergies. Contrary to the popular myth that
poisons in sponges is an urban legend, the sponges are treated and the
amount of "poison" that is on/in them the FDA (our good buddies that watch
out for us, yeah right) have determined that it is not in high enough
quantities to harm humans. However, the sponge manufacturers are required
to put labels on the sponges which state that they should not be used in
aquariums because they will kill your fish. Go figure!
Lynda
poisons in sponges is an urban legend, the sponges are treated and the
amount of "poison" that is on/in them the FDA (our good buddies that watch
out for us, yeah right) have determined that it is not in high enough
quantities to harm humans. However, the sponge manufacturers are required
to put labels on the sponges which state that they should not be used in
aquariums because they will kill your fish. Go figure!
Lynda
----- Original Message -----
From: "Judie C. Rall" <adonai@...>
>
> We use baking soda, salt, vinegar, and lemon juice to wash our
> dishes by hand. No soap, no detergents. Lemon juice cuts the
> grease, baking soda and salt provide abrasion to help loosen stuck
> on stuff, with the help of one of those scrubber sponges.
>
> Judie
A
I have been using Ecover brand dishwasher detergent, and have just started using their washing machine powder too. I love both. After many tries, and being disappointed, I have found these to work just as good as the old Cascade and Tide I used to use.
Ann
Ann
Annette Yunker
"if you buy a good dishwasher"
Angela - Well . . . about the good dishwasher . . . I'll take your dishwasher when you are done with it! We moved to a suburb of D.C. when my spouse was in the military, and we did not know how long we would be here. We were also in sticker shock about prices. We have a rental home in a good neighborhood. The landlord wishes to put no money into it. We have 40 yo linoleum and kitchen cabinets. The dishwasher is the cheapest available. There is no place for any pieces of food to collect or drain. I've read the instructions which direct us to clean out the water spray openings if we notice the dishes aren't getting clean as it may mean food has clogged them since there is no place for the food to go! We would buy a house, but the prices have risen exponentially in recent months.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Angela - Well . . . about the good dishwasher . . . I'll take your dishwasher when you are done with it! We moved to a suburb of D.C. when my spouse was in the military, and we did not know how long we would be here. We were also in sticker shock about prices. We have a rental home in a good neighborhood. The landlord wishes to put no money into it. We have 40 yo linoleum and kitchen cabinets. The dishwasher is the cheapest available. There is no place for any pieces of food to collect or drain. I've read the instructions which direct us to clean out the water spray openings if we notice the dishes aren't getting clean as it may mean food has clogged them since there is no place for the food to go! We would buy a house, but the prices have risen exponentially in recent months.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Diana Tashjian
And also, on my dishwasher I can choose an option for no drying meaning that the dishes just sit in there very warm - they get as dry as they used to before! when we did use the drying options.
Diana Tashjian
Diana Tashjian
----- Original Message -----
From: Angela
To: [email protected]
Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2001 2:45 PM
Subject: RE: [Unschooling-dotcom] Automatic dishwashers
I do not believe this to be true. Modern dishwashers use very little water
and if your water is hot from your oil burner before it goes into your
dishwasher, it uses very little electricity. Also if you buy a good
dishwasher, you do not need to rinse the dishes before it washes them. The
only thing my dishwasher doens' t get off dishes is cream of wheat. I may
look it up for you later to see how much electricity and water it uses, but
right now I am wiped out.
Angela (who loves her dishwasher)
It doesn't take any longer to wash than
it does to rinse (I've timed myself). Also, how old are your
children? They can start taking some of the responsibility of
washing, so it doesn't all fall on you. Also, if you have each person
wash their own dish, silverware, and glass and put them in the
drainer after they are done eating, there is virtually nothing to clean
up. Also, dishwashers use more water, electricity, and gas than
regular dish washing.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Annette Yunker
>you are probably laughing right now thinking about washing dishesJudie - I totally understand this! My kids were in a Montessori school prior to unschooling. The table and chair washing activities were often used to help the child focus, relax, and "spend some time alone" inside themselves while surrounded by others. My oldest dd's first M-directress would even take up a table washing exercise when she wanted to refocus. After she mentioned this to me, I noticed that I also can enjoy cleaning, even dishes, for the peaceful, even spiritual effect it has.
>as a spiritual experience.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Johanna
My diswasher uses 8 gallons of water each load.
Johanna
Life is the ultimate learning experience!
Johanna
Life is the ultimate learning experience!
----- Original Message -----
From: Angela
To: [email protected]
Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2001 4:45 PM
Subject: RE: [Unschooling-dotcom] Automatic dishwashers
I do not believe this to be true. Modern dishwashers use very little water
and if your water is hot from your oil burner before it goes into your
dishwasher, it uses very little electricity. Also if you buy a good
dishwasher, you do not need to rinse the dishes before it washes them. The
only thing my dishwasher doens' t get off dishes is cream of wheat. I may
look it up for you later to see how much electricity and water it uses, but
right now I am wiped out.
Angela (who loves her dishwasher)
It doesn't take any longer to wash than
it does to rinse (I've timed myself). Also, how old are your
children? They can start taking some of the responsibility of
washing, so it doesn't all fall on you. Also, if you have each person
wash their own dish, silverware, and glass and put them in the
drainer after they are done eating, there is virtually nothing to clean
up. Also, dishwashers use more water, electricity, and gas than
regular dish washing.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com
To unsubscribe, set preferences, or read archives:
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Another great list sponsored by Home Education Magazine!
http://www.home-ed-magazine.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Johanna
I always liked a dishrag better. Easier to clean too.
Johanna
Life is the ultimate learning experience!
Johanna
Life is the ultimate learning experience!
----- Original Message -----
From: Lynda
To: [email protected]
Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2001 5:18 PM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Automatic dishwashers
Just a note for folks with allergies. Contrary to the popular myth that
poisons in sponges is an urban legend, the sponges are treated and the
amount of "poison" that is on/in them the FDA (our good buddies that watch
out for us, yeah right) have determined that it is not in high enough
quantities to harm humans. However, the sponge manufacturers are required
to put labels on the sponges which state that they should not be used in
aquariums because they will kill your fish. Go figure!
Lynda
----- Original Message -----
From: "Judie C. Rall" <adonai@...>
>
> We use baking soda, salt, vinegar, and lemon juice to wash our
> dishes by hand. No soap, no detergents. Lemon juice cuts the
> grease, baking soda and salt provide abrasion to help loosen stuck
> on stuff, with the help of one of those scrubber sponges.
>
> Judie
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
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Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Eileen M.
I hadn't heard that 'urban myth'... and I hadn't even
thought about sponges, although every time I use one I
get a burning rash on my hands for the day. I always
assumed that I just hadn't found the right cleaning
agent!
Eileen
--- Lynda <lurine@...> wrote:
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices
http://auctions.yahoo.com/
thought about sponges, although every time I use one I
get a burning rash on my hands for the day. I always
assumed that I just hadn't found the right cleaning
agent!
Eileen
--- Lynda <lurine@...> wrote:
> Just a note for folks with allergies. Contrary to__________________________________________________
> the popular myth that
> poisons in sponges is an urban legend, the sponges
> are treated and the
> amount of "poison" that is on/in them the FDA (our
> good buddies that watch
> out for us, yeah right) have determined that it is
> not in high enough
> quantities to harm humans. However, the sponge
> manufacturers are required
> to put labels on the sponges which state that they
> should not be used in
> aquariums because they will kill your fish. Go
> figure!
>
> Lynda
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Judie C. Rall" <adonai@...>
> >
> > We use baking soda, salt, vinegar, and lemon juice
> to wash our
> > dishes by hand. No soap, no detergents. Lemon
> juice cuts the
> > grease, baking soda and salt provide abrasion to
> help loosen stuck
> > on stuff, with the help of one of those scrubber
> sponges.
> >
> > Judie
>
>
>
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices
http://auctions.yahoo.com/
Lynda
Your dishwasher uses between 1800 and 2400 watts per hour of electricity
which is energy that you wouldn't be using if you washed by hand. The
average dishwasher (according to the Tampa water department) uses 15 gallons
of water with water saving models using around 10. The average for
handwashing is 5 - 7 gallons.
Lynda
which is energy that you wouldn't be using if you washed by hand. The
average dishwasher (according to the Tampa water department) uses 15 gallons
of water with water saving models using around 10. The average for
handwashing is 5 - 7 gallons.
Lynda
----- Original Message -----
From: "Angela" <unschooling@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2001 2:45 PM
Subject: RE: [Unschooling-dotcom] Automatic dishwashers
> I do not believe this to be true. Modern dishwashers use very little
water
> and if your water is hot from your oil burner before it goes into your
> dishwasher, it uses very little electricity. Also if you buy a good
> dishwasher, you do not need to rinse the dishes before it washes them.
The
> only thing my dishwasher doens' t get off dishes is cream of wheat. I may
> look it up for you later to see how much electricity and water it uses,
but
> right now I am wiped out.
>
> Angela (who loves her dishwasher)
> It doesn't take any longer to wash than
> it does to rinse (I've timed myself). Also, how old are your
> children? They can start taking some of the responsibility of
> washing, so it doesn't all fall on you. Also, if you have each person
> wash their own dish, silverware, and glass and put them in the
> drainer after they are done eating, there is virtually nothing to clean
> up. Also, dishwashers use more water, electricity, and gas than
> regular dish washing.
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
> Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com
>
> To unsubscribe, set preferences, or read archives:
> http://www.egroups.com/group/Unschooling-dotcom
>
> Another great list sponsored by Home Education Magazine!
> http://www.home-ed-magazine.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
Lynda
Does everyone remember the sponges "grandma" had? They were rather hard
unless they were in water. "Modern" sponges are treated so they remain soft
and they are also treated so germs don't collect on them. By the time we
get the germ killer dishsoap, the germ killer sponges and the variety of
other "killers" in our lives, it is a miracle we are alive!
Lynda
unless they were in water. "Modern" sponges are treated so they remain soft
and they are also treated so germs don't collect on them. By the time we
get the germ killer dishsoap, the germ killer sponges and the variety of
other "killers" in our lives, it is a miracle we are alive!
Lynda
----- Original Message -----
From: "Eileen M." <ravensegg@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2001 11:59 PM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Automatic dishwashers
> I hadn't heard that 'urban myth'... and I hadn't even
> thought about sponges, although every time I use one I
> get a burning rash on my hands for the day. I always
> assumed that I just hadn't found the right cleaning
> agent!
>
> Eileen
>
> --- Lynda <lurine@...> wrote:
> > Just a note for folks with allergies. Contrary to
> > the popular myth that
> > poisons in sponges is an urban legend, the sponges
> > are treated and the
> > amount of "poison" that is on/in them the FDA (our
> > good buddies that watch
> > out for us, yeah right) have determined that it is
> > not in high enough
> > quantities to harm humans. However, the sponge
> > manufacturers are required
> > to put labels on the sponges which state that they
> > should not be used in
> > aquariums because they will kill your fish. Go
> > figure!
> >
> > Lynda
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Judie C. Rall" <adonai@...>
> > >
> > > We use baking soda, salt, vinegar, and lemon juice
> > to wash our
> > > dishes by hand. No soap, no detergents. Lemon
> > juice cuts the
> > > grease, baking soda and salt provide abrasion to
> > help loosen stuck
> > > on stuff, with the help of one of those scrubber
> > sponges.
> > >
> > > Judie
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> __________________________________________________
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>
Judie C. Rall
> It still takes electricity or some energy source to heat the wateryou wash
> dishes with.I don't use hot water....there's no advantage to it. I used to do all
my clothes in warm water, and then read about a study that said
that clothes get just as clean in cold water as they do in warm, so
now I wash everything in cold, and it works just as well. So I
applied that same wisdom to my dishwashing, and it words fine
too. I used to think you had to have at least warm water to get
grease off, but it's not true. The lemon juice and vinegar that I use
work just fine with cold water. So I'm not using any electricity
when I wash. Also, if you are using soap, cold water kills the
suds faster than warm water.
Judie
Judie C. Rall
> I use hot water to wash dishes and also to wash our sheets and towels. ToWater must be at least 160 degrees to kill organisms, and I don't
> kill germs and allergens.
want my water heater set that hot, in case one of the kids turns on
the hot water.....160 will burn you!
Judie
Judie C. Rall
> That is great that cold water washing works for you. I would have to guessgerms.
> that you are a very small minority as I have never heard of anyone else
> using cold water to wash dishes in........... Hot water kills
Hot water only kills germs if it's at least 160 degrees, which is too
hot for you to put your hands in. Also, vinegar and lemon juice
work to kill germs because anything below a pH of three
extinguishes all life. It works great as a contraceptive too....squirt
some lemon juice in there, and you will not get pregnant.
Judie
Angela
These are the stats for my dishwasher, a KitchenAid Quiet Scrub.
It uses between 4 and 8 gallons of water depending on which cycle you use.
If you use light china, it uses 4 gallons. If you use Normal, it uses 6
gallons. If you use potscrubber, it uses 8 gallons. My dishwasher has a
food grinder in the bottom that grinds up any food that makes it's way to
the bottom of the dishwasher therefore no food sticks on the dishes.
When I spoke with a representative, she said if you have an electric hot
water heater, you use approx. $55 a year in electricity for an average
family. If you have a gas hot water heater, it uses approx. $35
annually.(This does include heating the water, which you have to do anyway
to wash by hand) My hot water is heated off our oil burner and uses quite a
bit less energy than both electricity and gas. (at current prices) I
challenge any of you who do dishes by hand to to the same amount of dishes
that fit into my dishwasher by hand and keep track of the water you use.
Rinsing takes a lot of water, esp. if you leave it running while you do the
dishes. 8 gallons might sound like a lot, but it isn't if you are standing
there doing dishes.
It still takes electricity or some energy source to heat the water you wash
dishes with. And I generally use the light china cycle on my dishwasher.
(only uses 4 gallons)
Angela in Maine
Unschooling mom to two beautiful daughters.
www.geocities.com/autonomousangela
Your dishwasher uses between 1800 and 2400 watts per hour of electricity
which is energy that you wouldn't be using if you washed by hand. The
average dishwasher (according to the Tampa water department) uses 15
gallons
of water with water saving models using around 10. The average for
handwashing is 5 - 7 gallons.
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
It uses between 4 and 8 gallons of water depending on which cycle you use.
If you use light china, it uses 4 gallons. If you use Normal, it uses 6
gallons. If you use potscrubber, it uses 8 gallons. My dishwasher has a
food grinder in the bottom that grinds up any food that makes it's way to
the bottom of the dishwasher therefore no food sticks on the dishes.
When I spoke with a representative, she said if you have an electric hot
water heater, you use approx. $55 a year in electricity for an average
family. If you have a gas hot water heater, it uses approx. $35
annually.(This does include heating the water, which you have to do anyway
to wash by hand) My hot water is heated off our oil burner and uses quite a
bit less energy than both electricity and gas. (at current prices) I
challenge any of you who do dishes by hand to to the same amount of dishes
that fit into my dishwasher by hand and keep track of the water you use.
Rinsing takes a lot of water, esp. if you leave it running while you do the
dishes. 8 gallons might sound like a lot, but it isn't if you are standing
there doing dishes.
It still takes electricity or some energy source to heat the water you wash
dishes with. And I generally use the light china cycle on my dishwasher.
(only uses 4 gallons)
Angela in Maine
Unschooling mom to two beautiful daughters.
www.geocities.com/autonomousangela
Your dishwasher uses between 1800 and 2400 watts per hour of electricity
which is energy that you wouldn't be using if you washed by hand. The
average dishwasher (according to the Tampa water department) uses 15
gallons
of water with water saving models using around 10. The average for
handwashing is 5 - 7 gallons.
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
We give our dishes a quick scrape with a rubber spatula before they go in
the A.D. Never rinse, not even egg yolk. I wash on the lightest cycle.
Mary Ellen
In the huge rush to build shopping malls and banks,
no one is thinking about where kids can play.
That doesn't generate tax revenue.
the A.D. Never rinse, not even egg yolk. I wash on the lightest cycle.
Mary Ellen
In the huge rush to build shopping malls and banks,
no one is thinking about where kids can play.
That doesn't generate tax revenue.
Diana Tashjian
But what about water hot enough to kill germs?
Diana Tashjian
Diana Tashjian
----- Original Message -----
From: Judie C. Rall
> It still takes electricity or some energy source to heat the water
you wash
> dishes with.
I don't use hot water....there's no advantage to it. I used to do all
my clothes in warm water, and then read about a study that said
that clothes get just as clean in cold water as they do in warm, so
now I wash everything in cold, and it works just as well. So I
applied that same wisdom to my dishwashing, and it words fine
too. I used to think you had to have at least warm water to get
grease off, but it's not true. The lemon juice and vinegar that I use
work just fine with cold water. So I'm not using any electricity
when I wash. Also, if you are using soap, cold water kills the
suds faster than warm water.
Judie
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Valerie Stewart
I use hot water to wash dishes and also to wash our sheets and towels. To
kill germs and allergens.
Valerie in Tacoma
But what about water hot enough to kill germs?
Diana Tashjian
kill germs and allergens.
Valerie in Tacoma
But what about water hot enough to kill germs?
Diana Tashjian
Angela
That is great that cold water washing works for you. I would have to guess
that you are a very small minority as I have never heard of anyone else
using cold water to wash dishes in........... Hot water kills germs. I
don't know if the amount of vinegar you use would do the same or not. I
just wanted to say that using a dishwasher does not automatically mean you
are using more energy. There are a lot of issues that come into play
including the brand dishwasher and how you heat your hot water. (or whether
you use hot water or not) It sounds like you are doing it very cheaply.
Even more so than my dishwasher, but that isn't always the case.
Angela in Maine
Unschooling mom to two beautiful daughters.
www.geocities.com/autonomousangela
I don't use hot water....there's no advantage to it
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
that you are a very small minority as I have never heard of anyone else
using cold water to wash dishes in........... Hot water kills germs. I
don't know if the amount of vinegar you use would do the same or not. I
just wanted to say that using a dishwasher does not automatically mean you
are using more energy. There are a lot of issues that come into play
including the brand dishwasher and how you heat your hot water. (or whether
you use hot water or not) It sounds like you are doing it very cheaply.
Even more so than my dishwasher, but that isn't always the case.
Angela in Maine
Unschooling mom to two beautiful daughters.
www.geocities.com/autonomousangela
I don't use hot water....there's no advantage to it
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
DiamondAir
From: "Angela" <unschooling@...>
(Global Action Plan) ecoteams project. One of the things that GAP has done
is to research which changes people can make that make a difference in
energy consumption, waste, etc. I remember that in the booklet I had, they
said that if you fully load the average dishwasher, it is more energy and
water efficient to use the dishwasher than to wash the dishes by hand.
Incidentally, if anyone is interested in finding out more about the Ecoteams
program, I highly recommend it. Info at:
http://www.globalactionplan.org/Default.htm
Blue Skies!
-Robin-
Mom to Mackenzie (8/28/96) inventer of new and wonderful things
and Asa (10/5/99) singer of protest songs
http://www.geocities.com/the_clevengers Flying Clevenger Family
>I do not believe this to be true. Modern dishwashers use very little waterThis is true. I used to be an "Ecoteam" participant and leader with the GAP
>and if your water is hot from your oil burner before it goes into your
>dishwasher, it uses very little electricity.
(Global Action Plan) ecoteams project. One of the things that GAP has done
is to research which changes people can make that make a difference in
energy consumption, waste, etc. I remember that in the booklet I had, they
said that if you fully load the average dishwasher, it is more energy and
water efficient to use the dishwasher than to wash the dishes by hand.
Incidentally, if anyone is interested in finding out more about the Ecoteams
program, I highly recommend it. Info at:
http://www.globalactionplan.org/Default.htm
Blue Skies!
-Robin-
Mom to Mackenzie (8/28/96) inventer of new and wonderful things
and Asa (10/5/99) singer of protest songs
http://www.geocities.com/the_clevengers Flying Clevenger Family
Valerie Stewart
Also, vinegar and lemon juice
work to kill germs because anything below a pH of three
extinguishes all life. It works great as a contraceptive too....squirt
some lemon juice in there, and you will not get pregnant.
Judie
***"Squirt some lemon juice in there"??? Oy, somehow this never came to mind
when I needed to be concerned about contraception. I don't know if I would
have left it to lemon juice for peace of mind in this circumstance.
Valerie in Tacoma
work to kill germs because anything below a pH of three
extinguishes all life. It works great as a contraceptive too....squirt
some lemon juice in there, and you will not get pregnant.
Judie
***"Squirt some lemon juice in there"??? Oy, somehow this never came to mind
when I needed to be concerned about contraception. I don't know if I would
have left it to lemon juice for peace of mind in this circumstance.
Valerie in Tacoma
Lynda
I have those stats. The figures they use are for the energy efficient cycle
using the least water with a fully loaded machine with dishes that have been
prerinsed but they don't figure in the prerinsing. They also don't figure
in using the machine to wash pots and pans. Almost all manufacturers
recommend that you prerinse if you are going to leave dishes sit until the
machine is full. A lot of the pamphlets that went out had a little star and
made that note at the bottom of the page.
Lynda
using the least water with a fully loaded machine with dishes that have been
prerinsed but they don't figure in the prerinsing. They also don't figure
in using the machine to wash pots and pans. Almost all manufacturers
recommend that you prerinse if you are going to leave dishes sit until the
machine is full. A lot of the pamphlets that went out had a little star and
made that note at the bottom of the page.
Lynda
----- Original Message -----
From: "DiamondAir" <diamondair@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, May 10, 2001 9:11 AM
Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] RE: Automatic dishwashers
> From: "Angela" <unschooling@...>
> >I do not believe this to be true. Modern dishwashers use very little
water
> >and if your water is hot from your oil burner before it goes into your
> >dishwasher, it uses very little electricity.
>
>
> This is true. I used to be an "Ecoteam" participant and leader with the
GAP
> (Global Action Plan) ecoteams project. One of the things that GAP has done
> is to research which changes people can make that make a difference in
> energy consumption, waste, etc. I remember that in the booklet I had, they
> said that if you fully load the average dishwasher, it is more energy and
> water efficient to use the dishwasher than to wash the dishes by hand.
> Incidentally, if anyone is interested in finding out more about the
Ecoteams
> program, I highly recommend it. Info at:
> http://www.globalactionplan.org/Default.htm
>
> Blue Skies!
> -Robin-
> Mom to Mackenzie (8/28/96) inventer of new and wonderful things
> and Asa (10/5/99) singer of protest songs
> http://www.geocities.com/the_clevengers Flying Clevenger Family
>
>
> Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
> Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com
>
> To unsubscribe, set preferences, or read archives:
> http://www.egroups.com/group/Unschooling-dotcom
>
> Another great list sponsored by Home Education Magazine!
> http://www.home-ed-magazine.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
Lynda
Well, been there and done that as we used to have a gray water system.
Personally, with a family of 6 we used between 6 and 7 gallons of water, on
an average per day doing 2 loads of dishes. It was one of the kidlets
projects. When I personally did the dishes, I used less than 5. Hubby used
the most, so I tend to keep him out of the kitchen <g>
The amount of water used and the source for heating water aside, dishwashers
still use energy (electricity) that isn't used when dishes are done by hand
unless you are living at the local university and have one powered by a
bicycle. Generally speaking they use harsher chemical based detergents
(unless one is using organic/natural earth friendly stuff) that are more
expensive which again runs the total cost both to the environment and the
budget up.
Lynda
Personally, with a family of 6 we used between 6 and 7 gallons of water, on
an average per day doing 2 loads of dishes. It was one of the kidlets
projects. When I personally did the dishes, I used less than 5. Hubby used
the most, so I tend to keep him out of the kitchen <g>
The amount of water used and the source for heating water aside, dishwashers
still use energy (electricity) that isn't used when dishes are done by hand
unless you are living at the local university and have one powered by a
bicycle. Generally speaking they use harsher chemical based detergents
(unless one is using organic/natural earth friendly stuff) that are more
expensive which again runs the total cost both to the environment and the
budget up.
Lynda
----- Original Message -----
From: "Angela" <unschooling@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, May 10, 2001 5:25 AM
Subject: RE: [Unschooling-dotcom] Automatic dishwashers
> These are the stats for my dishwasher, a KitchenAid Quiet Scrub.
> It uses between 4 and 8 gallons of water depending on which cycle you use.
> If you use light china, it uses 4 gallons. If you use Normal, it uses 6
> gallons. If you use potscrubber, it uses 8 gallons. My dishwasher has a
> food grinder in the bottom that grinds up any food that makes it's way to
> the bottom of the dishwasher therefore no food sticks on the dishes.
>
> When I spoke with a representative, she said if you have an electric hot
> water heater, you use approx. $55 a year in electricity for an average
> family. If you have a gas hot water heater, it uses approx. $35
> annually.(This does include heating the water, which you have to do anyway
> to wash by hand) My hot water is heated off our oil burner and uses quite
a
> bit less energy than both electricity and gas. (at current prices) I
> challenge any of you who do dishes by hand to to the same amount of dishes
> that fit into my dishwasher by hand and keep track of the water you use.
> Rinsing takes a lot of water, esp. if you leave it running while you do
the
> dishes. 8 gallons might sound like a lot, but it isn't if you are
standing
> there doing dishes.
>
> It still takes electricity or some energy source to heat the water you
wash
> dishes with. And I generally use the light china cycle on my dishwasher.
> (only uses 4 gallons)
>
> Angela in Maine
> Unschooling mom to two beautiful daughters.
> www.geocities.com/autonomousangela
>
>
>
> Your dishwasher uses between 1800 and 2400 watts per hour of electricity
> which is energy that you wouldn't be using if you washed by hand. The
> average dishwasher (according to the Tampa water department) uses 15
> gallons
> of water with water saving models using around 10. The average for
> handwashing is 5 - 7 gallons.
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
> Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com
>
> To unsubscribe, set preferences, or read archives:
> http://www.egroups.com/group/Unschooling-dotcom
>
> Another great list sponsored by Home Education Magazine!
> http://www.home-ed-magazine.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
[email protected]
> unless you are living at the local university and have one poweredby a
> bicycle.LOL! I have this picture in my mind of a child sat on the bicycle,
hooked up to the dishwasher, *doing the dishes*!!!!!!
Am I the only person on this list who does not own a dishwasher?
Marianne