DiamondAir

OK, I don't know how to say this and have it come across right. First of
all, welcome to the list Valerie, I've found some of your posts really
insightful and it is always very interesting for me (especially as the mom
of only young kids) to hear from moms who have seen the Unschooling journey
from start to end. I wish you well with your book and hope it comes to be!
You and Laurie obviously have an interesting story to tell.

All that being said, this is a list of many, many people including some
neophyte unschoolers, and many experienced voices as well. I value it highly
because there is usually an abundance of varying opinions to be found.
People on the list contribute to subjects that they find they have info and
expertise on, and with hundreds of people on the list, that means we get a
wide variety of voices to hear and topics of discussion. When any one person
posts so many posts, then other voices start to go silent. People can no
longer keep up with the number of posts and discussions die down. It's good
netiquette not to respond to every single post as if it is a personal email.
Lately, 20 or more out of 25 posts in several digests were from one person.
And each post had a long stream of the previous posts in that thread (it's
also good netiquette to clip only the relevant bits of information out of a
post you're responding to). If all the people who post on this list did
this, we would have literally hundreds of thousands of posts a day the list
would become unusable. Now I'm not the list owner or anything, I'm just
saying this as my own personal observation. I hope I'm not offending anyone
or stepping on anyone's toes. so this is my own personal request: I'd ask
people to think before they post if what they are saying adds to the list
as a whole. Personal replies like ((((Hugs)))) or "That's great!" can go to
individual email, not to the list. I'd ask people to clip extraneous stuff
from posts that they are replying to - for those of us on the digest we
sometimes get an entire digest full of forwarded and replied-to text and
very little substance. I'd ask people to think before they post and ask
themselves if they are posting so much that hardly anyone else is able to
get a word in edgewise. I miss many of the voices who have not been speaking
much in the last few days and I hope to see more of a balance on the list
again with many different opinions weighing in. That's my request, just my
own 2 cents.

Thanks!

Blue Skies!
-Robin-
Mom to Mackenzie (8/28/96) who has a best friend named "Eiznekcam"
and Asa (10/5/99) the girl who climbs everything!
http://www.geocities.com/the_clevengers Flying Clevenger Family

Judie C. Rall

> All that being said, this is a list of many, many people including some
> neophyte unschoolers, and many experienced voices as well. I value it highly
> because there is usually an abundance of varying opinions to be found.
> People on the list contribute to subjects that they find they have info and
> expertise on, and with hundreds of people on the list, that means we get a
> wide variety of voices to hear and topics of discussion. When any one person
> posts so many posts, then other voices start to go silent. People can no
> longer keep up with the number of posts and discussions die
down.

Personally, I love Valerie's posts and hope she doesn't stop.
Having a lot of posts has not kept me from posting, but has
encouraged me. Personally, the thing I need most is the
reassurance that when your kids grow up, they will not have been
damaged by unschooling, and that is what I am getting from
Valerie's posts. It is very easy to delete those posts you don't
want to read by looking at the subject line, so that you don't have
to read them all and can keep up with those subjects you are
interested in.

Just my two cents also.

Judie

Valerie

Robin, Thank you for wishing me well on the book...

I was aware that I was posting a lot, but struggling with whether or
not I should ignore something directed at me or not. I appreciate you
pointing this out to me and I am not offended. A club I was in before
was a bit smaller and every little post was wanted. I'll clip from
now on. The last thing I want is for voices to go silent. I didn't
miss those voices, because I didn't read back past where I joined. I
apologize to anyone that has been overwhelmed by my posting. Frankly,
I was trying to figure out how to word a post saying I couldn't post
so much anymore. The book is needing the finishing touches and my
time is limited.

I'm also responding to a lot of personal email. Those are really
tugging at my heart and maybe I'll give you guys some breathing room
and concentrate on them more. :-)

love, Valerie

[email protected]

In a message dated 5/5/01 2:29:12 PM Pacific Daylight Time, valfitz@...
writes:

<< maybe I'll give you guys some breathing room
and concentrate on them more. :-)

love, Valerie >>

Valerie, just please don't go to the other extreme! I am enjoying your
posts! Your story about how Laurie grew up and what she is doing now is very
encouraging and needed. I have even told a few people I know about this
recently and it definitely catches people's attention. My sister, who just
had twin babies in Jan., is unsure about what she will do in the future as
far as homeschooling or not. When I told her about your book, she said she
definitely wants to read it when it comes out! Anyway, just wanted to let
you know that your posts are great.

Lucy

[email protected]

At the risk of just saying I agree with you here and being redundant, I would
like to add that I believe this is a good point and would welcome that as
well. This morning I deleted at least 50 emails from this list because I just
cannot keep up with it all and most of the posts were seeming to be
redundant. (and I mean no disrespect to anyone)

lovemary
If you wanna make the world a better place, take a look at yourself, and then
make a change.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

> I'm also responding to a lot of personal email. Those are really
> tugging at my heart and maybe I'll give you guys some breathing
room
> and concentrate on them more. :-)
>
> love, Valerie

Oh no!! please dont desert us. I come here every day to look for
your posts. You are giving me so much more confidence in what we
are doing. If you desert the boards, you have to email me every day
privetly. Sorry!!

marianne

DiamondAir

From: "Judie C. Rall" <adonai@...>
>Personally, I love Valerie's posts and hope she doesn't stop.

Me too, and I'm glad she didn't take it that way either. I definitely didn't
mean that.

>It is very easy to delete those posts you don't
>want to read by looking at the subject line, so that you don't have
>to read them all and can keep up with those subjects you are
>interested in.


Not if you get the list in digest form. I'm on far too many lists to get
them as individual messages. In the digest, you have to scroll through them
all to see what each one is, and scroll through all the included text as
well. That's all I was saying.

Blue Skies!
-Robin-
Mom to Mackenzie (8/28/96) who has a best friend named "Eiznekcam"
and Asa (10/5/99) the girl who climbs everything!
http://www.geocities.com/the_clevengers Flying Clevenger Family

[email protected]

I already posted this at another list, so hopefully this isn't too repetative.

I am trying to help Kent with the Atlearn map which will be a map of
inclusive/alternative support groups over the whole world.,
Currently, I need to help get contacts in every state, but apparently many of
the groups at NHEN are no longer.
If you are part of, or know of, an inclusive group in your state, PLEASE
email me. I'd deeply appreciate it.

Ren
Unschooling support at pensacolaunschoolers.com
And remember,
"A life lived in fear is a life half lived"

Debi Watson

I know we aren't formally a State YET (snicker) but is he looking for
contacts in Canada as well? Debi


>
> I am trying to help Kent with the Atlearn map which will be a map of
> inclusive/alternative support groups over the whole world.,
> Currently, I need to help get contacts in every state, but apparently many
of
> the groups at NHEN are no longer.
> If you are part of, or know of, an inclusive group in your state, PLEASE
> email me. I'd deeply appreciate it.
>
> Ren
>

Mary Bianco

Ren,

The group I belong to here in S. FL is totally inclusive.

Mary B

_________________________________________________________________
The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE*
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail

Laura Gates-Lupton

By inclusive is it correct to assume that you mean groups that welcome members regardless of homeschooling approach, religious or political affiliation? If so, I belong to one in Rhode Island.
Laura
starsuncloud@... wrote:I already posted this at another list, so hopefully this isn't too repetative.

I am trying to help Kent with the Atlearn map which will be a map of
inclusive/alternative support groups over the whole world.,
Currently, I need to help get contacts in every state, but apparently many of
the groups at NHEN are no longer.
If you are part of, or know of, an inclusive group in your state, PLEASE
email me. I'd deeply appreciate it.

Ren
Unschooling support at pensacolaunschoolers.com
And remember,
"A life lived in fear is a life half lived"

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

We used to belong to a group here in Las Vegas, NV. Their name is R.O.C.K,
they claimed they were inclusive. But, they weren't. When I told them that we
weren't religious, and weren't homeschooling for those reasons, they said,
"that is fine, we would love to have you and your children join our group."
Well, things ended up being pretty hard for us, and them. To make a long
story short, last month the moderator of the group was asked to leave for
private reasons. Another moderator was picked. This group was supposed to
make decisions as a group, however this was done on a night where there
weren't more than four families together. They changed many of the "rules" in
the "middle of the game". Then they decided that if you weren't religious and
couldn't make each and every one of the events/activities, you shouldn't be
allowed to be part of the group. Forget about the e-loop, which for many of
us moms was a tremendous help, they also decided that it was no longer
allowed to be involved in the e-loop if you weren't an "active member". So we
quit the group. I felt bad for my kids, because other than those children,
mine knew of no one else that homeschooled, unschooled or anything of the
sort. So now we are in search of a group that truely doesn't care about the
reasons why we homeschool, just that we do.
Ok, sorry I lied. That wasn't a short story after all was it?? LOL!
Shellie

[email protected]

In a message dated 11/16/2002 3:55:58 AM Eastern Standard Time,
Chelsnmikey@... writes:
> I felt bad for my kids, because other than those children,
> mine knew of no one else that homeschooled, unschooled or anything of the
> sort. So now we are in search of a group that truely doesn't care about the
>
> reasons why we homeschool, just that we do.

Shellie,

Start you own group! There will be several others like you who feel
short-changed! Make it a free online group (msn, yahoo, whatever). Only
unschoolers or only secular or totally, really inclusive. You can make it
your own with your own rules (or lack of! <g>). You'd be surprised how many
will come out of the woodwork--I'm sure there are many others in the area
with the same feelings.

~Kelly


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 11/16/02 1:56:27 AM, Chelsnmikey@... writes:

<< So we
quit the group. I felt bad for my kids, because other than those children,
mine knew of no one else that homeschooled, unschooled or anything of the
sort. >>

But having been in the group, didn't you pick up names and phone numbers?
Can't you have doings at your house or at a park so that you stay in contact
with those families you want to stay in with? And surely you would pick up
others along the way.

Sandra

tessimal

--- In Unschooling-dotcom@y..., Chelsnmikey@a... wrote:
<>We used to belong to a group here in Las Vegas, NV. Their name is
R.O.C.K, they claimed they were inclusive. But, they weren't.<>

Shellie:

We had a similar experience when we moved about 5 years ago. We
hooked up with a group that touted itself as totally inclusive.
Turned out that their version of "inclusion" was precipitated by lots
of unwritten rules and lots of group precedents that no one but a
few "old timers" knew about, that could be pulled out at will to
manipulate anyone and any situation they chose to manipulate. And
there were all kinds of secret meetings, in back rooms and vans in
parking lots, meetings on nights when no one could or, as it
eventually turned out, no one wanted to attend, at which the same
kinds of exclusionary power-wielding decisions were made.

So, I started a new group, a non-directed community-based home
education support group. This group has no dues, no heirarchy, no
regular meetings, no exclusions at all. The only rule is "no
spamming." Folks sign themselves up by joining the yahoo group,
which has open membership. Everyone is equally free to post info
about events and activities, resources, play groups, meetings on
topics, and anything else they think applies.

In our case religion and race were among the excluding factors, and
then, ultimately, the fact that I wouldn't just leave quietly and
take what they were dishing out under the veil of "inclusion." I
became that terrible person who just would not shut up and go away,
as many had before me, instead holding their feet to the fire of
their "inclusive" claim. But the exlcusion continued, peaking in
some members of this group holding a teen homeschool prom and, after
heated secret discussion (meaning I wasn't in on in any of this) I
was informed that my daughter would not be allowed to attend their
prom. Errr, umm, by the way, who said she was interested in the
first place? She already had dates for three other formal dances and
definitely was not interested, but this group was so determined to
keep her away from their kids and their prom that they held meetings,
made up lies, and ultimately had one mother meet with me, under a
false pretense, then later email me to tell me that "they" had
decided that my daughter would not be allowed to attend this prom.

Why? No one had to give an answer to that. But we know it wasn't
because my daughter was some terrible misbehaving delinquent teen.
She is a lovely, dedicated, hard-working young woman, a competitive
figure skater who skates 2-4 hours daily, involved in lots of other
great volunteer activities, as well as working at a part-time job.
The only "crime" she may have committed was being born into a bi-
racial low-income family. Surely it couldn't be that, could it?

Oh, and she was born to a mother who doesn't take it lying down,
doesn't just roll over and play dead when folks start wielding power
abusively. So most likely their reasons for excluding my daughter
were either that she is bi-racial (in case folks don't know, racism
is illegal, and not nice!), or because her mother is a strong
individual who doesn't just back down and go away when folks are
behaving badly, violating their own rules, making up new ones to fit
every situation they don't like, engaging in libel and slander, and
so on.

Okay, so now it's a long story, I know. But the end result has been
a wonderful new kind of group, that anyone can join whenever they
please, and leave whenever they please, too. All approaches to
learning are welcomed, all religions or no religion accepted, all
kinds of activities and events are promoted, and all kinds of topics
discussed on the e-list. We just finished up a week or so on gun
control after a group of us went to see Michael Moore's "Bowling For
Columbine," and no one flamed or slammed or dissed anyone, though
opinions ran the gamut, to be sure. I learned a lot. What a great
group! We are now about 200 strong and I believe this group will
continue to grow and proper long after I am gone.

So, start your own. I started this one all by myself, as an outcast,
and slowly but surely, more and more families have joined, and are
still joining, every single day. A new kind of group, with no one in
charge, no rules to waste hours and hours meeting to create or to
break, no purpose but to find and share interesting stuff with each
other that we feel might be of interest to other home educators.

And there are some group perks, too. Since I am a certified teacher
I offer a free group "portfolio assessment" day to all group members
who join before Jan 1st of any year, and who remain members through
the assessment date. And lots of others find or organize and promote
lots of wonderful activities and events and resources for our
children and families. All great group perks! And we have our
24/365 around the clock newsletter on yahoo!groups. Much better than
the old hard copy version that many other groups publish with
deadlines that always miss something important, and the regulation of
which often causes plenty of uproar, not to mention the high cost to
members. This new kind of totally inclusive home education support
group can work and I hope that others will try it. If you do please
let me know how it works in your community. This one has been going
about 2-1/2 years now.

Say "yes" to total inclusion, and "no" to all forms of exclusion! By
the way, many who join our group also belong to other little groups,
some of which are religion specific, or locality specific, or
educational philosophy specific. No matter, all are welcome!

Norma
CATCH/Cincinnati Area Teaching Children at Home
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SosinkyHS

Rachel Ann

Now see,

This makes me wish I were living in Cin city again...my home town!
Grew up most of my life on Paddock Rd in bond hill...

be well,
Rachel Ann
----- Original Message -----
From: tessimal
To: [email protected]
Sent: Saturday, November 16, 2002 9:21 AM
Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] Re: A request


--- In Unschooling-dotcom@y..., Chelsnmikey@a... wrote:
<>We used to belong to a group here in Las Vegas, NV. Their name is
R.O.C.K, they claimed they were inclusive. But, they weren't.<>

Shellie:

We had a similar experience when we moved about 5 years ago. We
hooked up with a group that touted itself as totally inclusive.
Turned out that their version of "inclusion" was precipitated by lots
of unwritten rules and lots of group precedents that no one but a
few "old timers" knew about, that could be pulled out at will to
manipulate anyone and any situation they chose to manipulate. And
there were all kinds of secret meetings, in back rooms and vans in
parking lots, meetings on nights when no one could or, as it
eventually turned out, no one wanted to attend, at which the same
kinds of exclusionary power-wielding decisions were made.

So, I started a new group, a non-directed community-based home
education support group. This group has no dues, no heirarchy, no
regular meetings, no exclusions at all. The only rule is "no
spamming." Folks sign themselves up by joining the yahoo group,
which has open membership. Everyone is equally free to post info
about events and activities, resources, play groups, meetings on
topics, and anything else they think applies.

In our case religion and race were among the excluding factors, and
then, ultimately, the fact that I wouldn't just leave quietly and
take what they were dishing out under the veil of "inclusion." I
became that terrible person who just would not shut up and go away,
as many had before me, instead holding their feet to the fire of
their "inclusive" claim. But the exlcusion continued, peaking in
some members of this group holding a teen homeschool prom and, after
heated secret discussion (meaning I wasn't in on in any of this) I
was informed that my daughter would not be allowed to attend their
prom. Errr, umm, by the way, who said she was interested in the
first place? She already had dates for three other formal dances and
definitely was not interested, but this group was so determined to
keep her away from their kids and their prom that they held meetings,
made up lies, and ultimately had one mother meet with me, under a
false pretense, then later email me to tell me that "they" had
decided that my daughter would not be allowed to attend this prom.

Why? No one had to give an answer to that. But we know it wasn't
because my daughter was some terrible misbehaving delinquent teen.
She is a lovely, dedicated, hard-working young woman, a competitive
figure skater who skates 2-4 hours daily, involved in lots of other
great volunteer activities, as well as working at a part-time job.
The only "crime" she may have committed was being born into a bi-
racial low-income family. Surely it couldn't be that, could it?

Oh, and she was born to a mother who doesn't take it lying down,
doesn't just roll over and play dead when folks start wielding power
abusively. So most likely their reasons for excluding my daughter
were either that she is bi-racial (in case folks don't know, racism
is illegal, and not nice!), or because her mother is a strong
individual who doesn't just back down and go away when folks are
behaving badly, violating their own rules, making up new ones to fit
every situation they don't like, engaging in libel and slander, and
so on.

Okay, so now it's a long story, I know. But the end result has been
a wonderful new kind of group, that anyone can join whenever they
please, and leave whenever they please, too. All approaches to
learning are welcomed, all religions or no religion accepted, all
kinds of activities and events are promoted, and all kinds of topics
discussed on the e-list. We just finished up a week or so on gun
control after a group of us went to see Michael Moore's "Bowling For
Columbine," and no one flamed or slammed or dissed anyone, though
opinions ran the gamut, to be sure. I learned a lot. What a great
group! We are now about 200 strong and I believe this group will
continue to grow and proper long after I am gone.

So, start your own. I started this one all by myself, as an outcast,
and slowly but surely, more and more families have joined, and are
still joining, every single day. A new kind of group, with no one in
charge, no rules to waste hours and hours meeting to create or to
break, no purpose but to find and share interesting stuff with each
other that we feel might be of interest to other home educators.

And there are some group perks, too. Since I am a certified teacher
I offer a free group "portfolio assessment" day to all group members
who join before Jan 1st of any year, and who remain members through
the assessment date. And lots of others find or organize and promote
lots of wonderful activities and events and resources for our
children and families. All great group perks! And we have our
24/365 around the clock newsletter on yahoo!groups. Much better than
the old hard copy version that many other groups publish with
deadlines that always miss something important, and the regulation of
which often causes plenty of uproar, not to mention the high cost to
members. This new kind of totally inclusive home education support
group can work and I hope that others will try it. If you do please
let me know how it works in your community. This one has been going
about 2-1/2 years now.

Say "yes" to total inclusion, and "no" to all forms of exclusion! By
the way, many who join our group also belong to other little groups,
some of which are religion specific, or locality specific, or
educational philosophy specific. No matter, all are welcome!

Norma
CATCH/Cincinnati Area Teaching Children at Home
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SosinkyHS




~~~~ Don't forget! If you change topics, change the subject line! ~~~~

If you have questions, concerns or problems with this list, please email the moderator, Joyce Fetteroll (fetteroll@...), or the list owner, Helen Hegener (HEM-Editor@...).

To unsubscribe from this group, click on the following link or address an email to:
[email protected]

Visit the Unschooling website: http://www.unschooling.com

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 11/16/02 8:24:56 AM Central Standard Time,
[email protected] writes:

<< Start you own group! >>

Yes, and then email me the contact info.!!! Starting your own group can be
very rewarding.

Ren
Unschooling support at pensacolaunschoolers.com
And remember,
"A life lived in fear is a life half lived"

jwoolfolk

>>>>>
This is the group I started in Little Rock about 5 years ago. The website is
mundane, but is serves its purpose.

Tuck
<<<<<<

HA
That's an understatement.
;-)

Julie W in AR





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 11/16/2002 9:04:57 PM Central Standard Time,
jwoolfolk@... writes:

> >>>>>
> This is the group I started in Little Rock about 5 years ago. The website
> is
> mundane, but is serves its purpose.
>
> Tuck
> <<<<<<
>
> HA
> That's an understatement.
> ;-)
>

Sorry for taking all the credit. I should have said "helped start".

I have Front Page now. I could really do it up for you, if you want.

Tuck


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

susan marie

I'm the editor and past-pres of an inclusive group, but I think I'm
up-to-date both at NHEN and with Atlearn. I'm checking on all of our
contact links this week (I hope) so I'll check.

We're on the Delmarva peninsula,
email: eshsa@...
webpage: (this is new. our old site decided to charge, and I haven't
finished putting up the new pages yet)
http://home.earthlink.net/~eshsa/index.html

hth,
susan

On Friday, November 15, 2002, at 04:38 PM, starsuncloud@... wrote:

> I already posted this at another list, so hopefully this isn't too
> repetative.
>
> I am trying to help Kent with the Atlearn map which will be a map of
> inclusive/alternative support groups over the whole world.,
> Currently, I need to help get contacts in every state, but apparently
> many of
> the groups at NHEN are no longer.
> If you are part of, or know of, an inclusive group in your state, PLEASE
> email me. I'd deeply appreciate it.
>
> Ren
> Unschooling support at pensacolaunschoolers.com
> And remember,
> "A life lived in fear is a life half lived"
>

>
>
> ~~~~ Don't forget! If you change topics, change the subject line! ~~~~
>
> If you have questions, concerns or problems with this list, please
> email the moderator, Joyce Fetteroll (fetteroll@...), or the
> list owner, Helen Hegener (HEM-Editor@...).
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, click on the following link or address
> an email to:
> [email protected]
>
> Visit the Unschooling website: http://www.unschooling.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
peace,
Susan

"Peace is not merely a distant goal that we seek, but a means by which
we arrive at that goal."
-- Martin Luther King, Jr.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

The White's

Shellie,
Almost exact same thing happened to us a couple of years ago. We also were relatively new to the area and because we didn't attend church etc the kids at the homeschool group were really all the kids we knew.

Those of us who quit the original group, or in my opinion were forced to leave, created our own group. Yes, it's smaller. But we're all also very close.

Are there others from your old, now exclusionist group, who have left? Or folks your were especially close to in the old group who may not have left yet, but may? Give them a call.

Good luck,
Cindy


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Tia Leschke

And we have our
> 24/365 around the clock newsletter on yahoo!groups. Much better than
> the old hard copy version that many other groups publish with
> deadlines that always miss something important, and the regulation of
> which often causes plenty of uproar, not to mention the high cost to
> members. This new kind of totally inclusive home education support
> group can work and I hope that others will try it. If you do please
> let me know how it works in your community. This one has been going
> about 2-1/2 years now.

The Victoria Homelearners Network works much the same way except that we do
have a print newsletter. (The new editor is moi.) Not everyone in our area
has internet access. We do have a "hotline" for stuff that doesn't make the
bi-monthly newsletter, and some folks have opted to get the newsletter in
pdf form by email.

We have no executive or regular meetings other than the newsletter meetings.
People can and do organize regular support group meetings, and there are
tons of activities organized. My son doesn't take part mostly, but my
granddaughter is close to needing a daytimer for all the activities she
takes part in through the group. She's taking ballet, drama, first aid,
renaissance dancing and probably a bunch of other stuff I can't remember
right now.
Tia

tessimal

Tia:

--- In Unschooling-dotcom@y..., Tia Leschke <leschke@s...> wrote:
<>The Victoria Homelearners Network works much the same way except
that we do have a print newsletter. (The new editor is moi.) Not
everyone in our area has internet access.<>

Well, the other group, the one where I encountered such hostility and
exclusion, had a newsletter, too. And I was the publisher, for a
while, but I soon learned that a small but very vocal group of "old
time" members had all kinds of rules about what I should do and how I
should do it, even though I was an unpaid volunteer. Didn't matter,
these members took it upon themselves to tell me how to do
everything; what I could and could not do, what I could and could not
change, what they did and did not like, etc. The publisher was the
person on whom all the back room political drudge got dumped.
Ridiculous!!!! No volunteer job is worth what I had to put up with.
I mean I only had years and years (too many to mention!) of
journalism and newsletter publishing experience, but the desktop
publishing was new to me, so I learned on the job, basically on my
own, with a little telephone or email assistance from the previous
publisher and a lot of help from my then pre-teen daughter. We
actually partnered on the publishing of the newsletter. That was the
fun part!

So, when I started the new group I was determined to steer very clear
of that hard-copy expense (it was costing close to $2.00 per copy per
month) and all its accompanying contentiousness. Instead of worrying
about who has computer access and who doesn't we offer to help anyone
who wants to join by meeting them at their local library branch where
they can have free internet access, set up their own free e-mail
account, and get on the list. And individual members have often
volunteered to meet with someone in their own home to help them learn
basic internet skills so they can join and access the list. Some
members have even donated their old computer systems to new members
who don't have them.

I mean isn't unschooling all about learning? Are we not all learning
new things all the time? Doesn't our learning how to access and use
the internet set a good example for our children who might be
intimidated about learning something new? Of course, most of the
time they could easily teach us what we need to know about computers
and the internet in a minute, right?

<>We have no executive or regular meetings other than the newsletter
meetings.<>

We have no executives in CATCH. In the other group we didn't have
newsletter meetings. All the meetings had to do with organizational
hocus pocus. All newsletter info was emailed to the publisher. I
was not allowed to change or edit anything that was sent in by the
members. Nor was I allowed to do much of anything that came close to
real publishing. Basically I was a desktop publishing tech; I
copied, cut, and pasted, that's all. That had been established by my
predecessor. Much easier to do desktop publishing with email
newsletter submissions! And a few rare members would mail something,
once in a while, though I needed to get it earlier to have time to
type it in, a nuisance in my opinion, especially when the newsletter
was getting up to 32 full pages.

<>People can and do organize regular support group meetings, and
there are tons of activities organized.<>

Same here. CATCH members organize whatever suits their fancy. We
have had speakers, and topic groups, and play groups, and
event/activity organizing groups. But it's basically up to the folks
who want to have something happen. We don't do things just because
it was done before, or done a certain way before. And folks have to
organize the financing on their own, too. Good lessons in
organization and management skills, fundraising, for all involved.

<>My son doesn't take part mostly, but my granddaughter is close to
needing a daytimer for all the activities she takes part in through
the group. She's taking ballet, drama, first aid, renaissance
dancing and probably a bunch of other stuff I can't remember right
now.<>

My daughter's schedule used to be a lot like your granddaughter's,
but now that she's 15 it is a little different. Still hectic at
times, but a different kind of hectic, with a job and an active
social life thrown in for good measure. Sounds like your group is
doing a great job. Keep up the good work!

Norma
CATCH/Cincinnati Area Teaching Children at Home
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SosinkyHS

Tia Leschke

>
> So, when I started the new group I was determined to steer very clear
> of that hard-copy expense (it was costing close to $2.00 per copy per
> month) and all its accompanying contentiousness. Instead of worrying
> about who has computer access and who doesn't we offer to help anyone
> who wants to join by meeting them at their local library branch where
> they can have free internet access, set up their own free e-mail
> account, and get on the list. And individual members have often
> volunteered to meet with someone in their own home to help them learn
> basic internet skills so they can join and access the list. Some
> members have even donated their old computer systems to new members
> who don't have them.

Works for us though. Dues are $15/year to cover the mailing costs, etc.
Anyone who can't afford that just has to say so and we subsidize them.
>
> I mean isn't unschooling all about learning? Are we not all learning
> new things all the time? Doesn't our learning how to access and use
> the internet set a good example for our children who might be
> intimidated about learning something new? Of course, most of the
> time they could easily teach us what we need to know about computers
> and the internet in a minute, right?

I think people are gradually moving towards computers and the internet, but
I don't feel like it's our place to push them. (being an unschooler and all
<g>)
>
> We have no executives in CATCH. In the other group we didn't have
> newsletter meetings. All the meetings had to do with organizational
> hocus pocus. All newsletter info was emailed to the publisher. I
> was not allowed to change or edit anything that was sent in by the
> members. Nor was I allowed to do much of anything that came close to
> real publishing. Basically I was a desktop publishing tech; I
> copied, cut, and pasted, that's all. That had been established by my
> predecessor. Much easier to do desktop publishing with email
> newsletter submissions! And a few rare members would mail something,
> once in a while, though I needed to get it earlier to have time to
> type it in, a nuisance in my opinion, especially when the newsletter
> was getting up to 32 full pages.

No wonder you hated it. I *do* edit what comes in. I took the job because
I want to get into freelance editing, so I'm learning on the "job". We have
an unschooled teen doing the layout now. He's great at it. I guess he's
doing the job you were, only we also have an editor. His interest is really
in how it all looks, and he generally doesn't even read the articles, etc.
>
I'm glad you were able to get a group going that meets your (and other
people's) needs. I know there has been a lot of what you describe going on
with the local Christian group, but I don't have to deal with it. Phew!
Tia

kayb85

> <>The Victoria Homelearners Network works much the same way except
> that we do have a print newsletter. (The new editor is moi.) Not
> everyone in our area has internet access.<>

We have several without internet access here too. Even a lot of
those in our area who do have internet access don't get on very
regularly. I do the newsletter for our group too and sent an email
newsletter to everyone in the group who had an email address. I
asked people to reply to me if they got the newsletter in their email
and if they prefer it that way. Most people did not reply and now
get the newsletter by snail mail. I talked to some of them, who said
that even though they have an email address they only get on the
computer to check email once every two weeks. Often I send email to
homeschoolers in our group and don't get a reply. I'll ask them if
they got the email I sent them a week ago and they'll say, "I don't
know, I'll have to ask my husband." or "It's been about a week since
I've been on, I'll let you know when I do." Of course I'm the only
unschooler in our group. There are 2 pretty relaxed homeschoolers
and the rest are pretty strict school at homers.

Instead of worrying
> about who has computer access and who doesn't we offer to help
anyone
> who wants to join by meeting them at their local library branch
where
> they can have free internet access, set up their own free e-mail
> account, and get on the list.


Our local libraries do not allow people to email or post to message
boards from their library computers. I asked why once and was told
that if someone sends out a bomb threat, the library might get into
trouble. I was just talking to my librarian, who said that she was
going to try to get a grant to get the library system computerized,
so that we could have a online card catalog instead of the old
fashioned card catalog, but the library board doesn't want the
grant. No one who works at the library (except the head librarian
who was recently hired) knows how to use a computer.

Sheila

tessimal

--- In Unschooling-dotcom@y..., Tia Leschke <leschke@s...> wrote:
<>Works for us though. Dues are $15/year to cover the mailing costs,
etc. Anyone who can't afford that just has to say so and we
subsidize them.<>

Once I took on the newsletter and quickly calculated that we were not
taking in enough from members to even cover the cost of printing, let
alone mailing, dues had to go up. Our treasurer then admitted that
we were in the red and dues went to $35/year. I think that's very
high. Yes, the group also had the policy that anyone who could not
afford membership could ask to be subsidized, though that fact was
rarely communicated to members. As soon as I took on the job I got
bids for printing and changed formatting to cut newsletter expenses
significantly, almost in half. I also suggested other ways to cut
printing costs even more, but the group never followed through on
those suggestions. Then came the battle to get the dues lowered
again, so that the group wasn't just accruing money in the bank
without ever having consulted members about why the group was doing
this, for what purpose all the extra money was intended. That took
almost two years to straighten out. Dues are now down to $24 and
that covers the monthly hard-copy newsletter with some to spare.

What I saw was that money and treasury and anything to do with money
was very divisive. Back to power and control issues. Though many
folks never recognized that as the source of division. Instead they
saw only the people who brought up the subject of money as divisive
forces. So in the new group I eliminated the need for any kind of
dues. That is why there is no hard copy newsletter. Besides, when I
analyzed all the information that was in the newsletter, even though
we organized and participated in many, many activities, I found that
about 3/4 of the newsletter was not information that I needed to keep
on hand. So, with the listserv format folks only print out what they
are specifically interested in. And the archives are always there
for quick reference, going all the way back to the beginning. I love
that feature!

<>I think people are gradually moving towards computers and the
internet, but I don't feel like it's our place to push them. (being
an unschooler and all <g>)<>

I guess we just have a different perspective. I took my first
fortran course in 1963 when the computer was the whole building.
Almost forty years later I figure folks are way past "gradually
moving towards computers." I may be Quaker, but I am not Amish.
Since many ways to access computers and the internet exist in today's
world I don't feel that it is pushing anyone. From free access in
libraries and community centers, to web TV, to friends helping
friends there are many ways to learn about computers today. It is
simply giving folks the opportunity to participate in the real
world. Few jobs today do not require the ability to use computers
and access the internet. My 15-year-old daughter works in a gift
shop and she has to use computers and the internet in her job daily.
Choosing not to use computers and the internet is a valid choice, but
as restrictive as any other kind of exclusionary choice, like
religion or educational philosophy, or a pre-packaged curriculum.

<>No wonder you hated it. I *do* edit what comes in. I took the job
because I want to get into freelance editing, so I'm learning on
the "job".<>

I am a very good editor. That is part of my job history. But the
whole thing in the group had more to do with power and control
issues, the usual group dynamic crap, than with editing skills. In
the listserv format everyone gets to edit their own submissions!
Great home education, as far as I'm concerned. Either folks learn to
spell check and grammar check, or they accept the consequences of
putting what they write out there in whatever form they choose to
present it. I have no objections to that.

Spelling is, after all, one of those things that brings the issue of
class consciousness into our lives. Back when our Constitution was
being written many folks spelled many words differently. And no one
got too upset about it as long as they could understand what was
being written. But then education and class consciousness drifted in
and those who spelled one way were considered the best and brightest,
and those who spelled another way were considered "uneducated." It
is a construct that has remained with us, for better or worse, though
I don't think most people understand its class basis.

<>I'm glad you were able to get a group going that meets your (and
other people's) needs. I know there has been a lot of what you
describe going on with the local Christian group, but I don't have to
deal with it. Phew!<>

Yup. Life is much nicer when so much energy isn't tied up bickering
about things that don't even bleep on our radar screens anymore.

Norma

[email protected]

In a message dated 11/18/02 6:56:17 AM, tessimal@... writes:

<< I am a very good editor. That is part of my job history. But the
whole thing in the group had more to do with power and control
issues, the usual group dynamic crap, than with editing skills. >>

Information and money--the biggest things groups ever fight about.

One compromise solution is to have copies of the lists of members and
upcoming events, but only hand them out in person at meetings. Single
sheets. Only print a few at a time, date them, and if someone wants to take
extras to give to other friends, fine. But don't promise to mail anything,
because it's expensive and something to fight about.

Sandra

Betsy

**I think people are gradually moving towards computers and the
internet, but I don't feel like it's our place to push them. (being an
unschooler and all
<g>)**

My thought was that someone with toddlers might find it difficult to
read mail at the library unless they can get to the library in the evening.

Betsy