college
Debra Bures
There are alternative ways to "do" college.
I had attended a state university until I was told by a prof. that MY problem was that " you want more from an education than a degree."
I looked at quite a few universities without walls, and graduated from the external degree program of an Ohio university. I designed my own program, found my own resources, had a committee to review my work with me.
I do not think that college is the answer --there is no one way for everyone. Herbert Kohl wrote an interesting book, _The Question is College_
Debra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I had attended a state university until I was told by a prof. that MY problem was that " you want more from an education than a degree."
I looked at quite a few universities without walls, and graduated from the external degree program of an Ohio university. I designed my own program, found my own resources, had a committee to review my work with me.
I do not think that college is the answer --there is no one way for everyone. Herbert Kohl wrote an interesting book, _The Question is College_
Debra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
COOL! I have taken courses from many different disciplines... I am
two or three classes away from a minor in three or four fields. I
would have loved the opportunity to craft my own degree plan.
However, I have found a major that I love (sociology).
-Laurie
Val's unschooled daughter
two or three classes away from a minor in three or four fields. I
would have loved the opportunity to craft my own degree plan.
However, I have found a major that I love (sociology).
-Laurie
Val's unschooled daughter
--- In Unschooling-dotcom@y..., "Debra Bures" <buresfam@s...> wrote:
> There are alternative ways to "do" college.
> I had attended a state university until I was told by a prof. that
MY problem was that " you want more from an education than a degree."
> I looked at quite a few universities without walls, and graduated
from the external degree program of an Ohio university. I designed my
own program, found my own resources, had a committee to review my
work with me.
> I do not think that college is the answer --there is no one way
for everyone. Herbert Kohl wrote an interesting book, _The Question
is College_
> Debra
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Valerie
What a moronic professor... Imagine that being a problem...sheeesh!
Good for you for finding what you needed. I agree that college is not
the answer for everyone. Laurie just happens to love it... so more
power to her!
Valerie
Good for you for finding what you needed. I agree that college is not
the answer for everyone. Laurie just happens to love it... so more
power to her!
Valerie
--- In Unschooling-dotcom@y..., "Debra Bures" <buresfam@s...> wrote:
> There are alternative ways to "do" college.
> I had attended a state university until I was told by a prof. that
MY problem was that " you want more from an education than a degree."
> I looked at quite a few universities without walls, and graduated
from the external degree program of an Ohio university. I designed my
own program, found my own resources, had a committee to review my
work with me.
> I do not think that college is the answer --there is no one way
for everyone. Herbert Kohl wrote an interesting book, _The Question
is College_
> Debra
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Debra Bures
There are alternative ways to "do" college.
I had attended a state university until I was told by a prof. that MY problem was that " you want more from an education than a degree."
I looked at quite a few universities without walls, and graduated from the external degree program of an Ohio university. I designed my own program, found my own resources, had a committee to review my work with me.
I do not think that college is the answer --there is no one way for everyone. Herbert Kohl wrote an interesting book, _The Question is College_
Debra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I had attended a state university until I was told by a prof. that MY problem was that " you want more from an education than a degree."
I looked at quite a few universities without walls, and graduated from the external degree program of an Ohio university. I designed my own program, found my own resources, had a committee to review my work with me.
I do not think that college is the answer --there is no one way for everyone. Herbert Kohl wrote an interesting book, _The Question is College_
Debra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 5/2/01 12:20:13 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
[email protected] writes:
<< I think one of the reasons Laurie enjoys college so much is because
it's not repeated high school stuff for her. >>
I actually didn't feel that college was just more of the same from high
school. High school was so focused on discipline issues, controlling people,
writing them up for being late to class or smoking or listening to music on
cassette players we weren't supposed to have or dress codes, etc. Also, high
school has to be so watered down as far as controversial issues. College
teachers don't care about dress codes or smoking, they cuss in the class
themselves sometimes, and they delve a lot more deeply into controversial
issues, like things that took place in American history or are going on now,
for example. It's not perfect and there are some teachers who are like the
worst of the high school teachers, but as a whole, I think it's a whole
different and better world than high school. Maybe one big difference is
that it's not compulsory!
Lucy
[email protected] writes:
<< I think one of the reasons Laurie enjoys college so much is because
it's not repeated high school stuff for her. >>
I actually didn't feel that college was just more of the same from high
school. High school was so focused on discipline issues, controlling people,
writing them up for being late to class or smoking or listening to music on
cassette players we weren't supposed to have or dress codes, etc. Also, high
school has to be so watered down as far as controversial issues. College
teachers don't care about dress codes or smoking, they cuss in the class
themselves sometimes, and they delve a lot more deeply into controversial
issues, like things that took place in American history or are going on now,
for example. It's not perfect and there are some teachers who are like the
worst of the high school teachers, but as a whole, I think it's a whole
different and better world than high school. Maybe one big difference is
that it's not compulsory!
Lucy
Valerie
Right on the not compulsory college. If Laurie was being forced to
attend college, I doubt she would be enjoying it.
love, Valerie
attend college, I doubt she would be enjoying it.
love, Valerie
--- In Unschooling-dotcom@y..., LASaliger@a... wrote:
> In a message dated 5/2/01 12:20:13 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
> Unschooling-dotcom@y... writes:
>
> << I think one of the reasons Laurie enjoys college so much is
because
> it's not repeated high school stuff for her. >>
>
> I actually didn't feel that college was just more of the same
from high
> school. High school was so focused on discipline issues,
controlling people,
> writing them up for being late to class or smoking or listening to
music on
> cassette players we weren't supposed to have or dress codes, etc.
Also, high
> school has to be so watered down as far as controversial issues.
College
> teachers don't care about dress codes or smoking, they cuss in the
class
> themselves sometimes, and they delve a lot more deeply into
controversial
> issues, like things that took place in American history or are
going on now,
> for example. It's not perfect and there are some teachers who are
like the
> worst of the high school teachers, but as a whole, I think it's a
whole
> different and better world than high school. Maybe one big
difference is
> that it's not compulsory!
>
> Lucy
[email protected]
In a message dated 5/4/01 5:50:13 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
buresfam@... writes:
<< I looked at quite a few universities without walls, and graduated from the
external degree program of an Ohio university. I designed my own program,
found my own resources, had a committee to review my work with me. >>
Does anyone know of a comprehensive list of these kinds of colleges? I
know Goddard in Vermont has this kind of thing and there is another college
near them that is similar. I would like to know about all of the colleges
like this and their programs.
Lucy
buresfam@... writes:
<< I looked at quite a few universities without walls, and graduated from the
external degree program of an Ohio university. I designed my own program,
found my own resources, had a committee to review my work with me. >>
Does anyone know of a comprehensive list of these kinds of colleges? I
know Goddard in Vermont has this kind of thing and there is another college
near them that is similar. I would like to know about all of the colleges
like this and their programs.
Lucy
Jeanmarie Shingleton
>From: LASaliger@...I think you're very right about that Lucy. I have a 13 yo who's asking if
>Maybe one big difference is that it's not compulsory!
he can take Community College courses next year. I think the requirement is
that you have to be 14 to do that and his b'day is in June. I'm a little
amazed that he wants this, since he's been enjoying this past year of no
deadlines and relaxed learning, but if it's what he wants.....
I wish I'd been able to just take the courses I wanted to have instead of
all the "required" stuff!
Jeanmarie
_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
Mary Bianco
I can only go from what those around me have done. None of mine are old
enough yet to find out. The homeschoolers I know of, both school at home and
unschoolers, have had no problem getting in to the colleges of their choice.
Some have GED's, some don't. Some have testing from previous years of
homeschooling and didn't have to submit them at all. Some of the children
did dual enrollment and had no problem from the colleges at all getting in.
One girl in particular, who I know is a true unschooler just took her SAT's
and was accepted into all 4 colleges she applied to just on that. She had
never been tested yearly at all during her unschooling years. She learned
what she needed to when she decided what she wanted to do.
Mary B
_________________________________________________________________
Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE*
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
enough yet to find out. The homeschoolers I know of, both school at home and
unschoolers, have had no problem getting in to the colleges of their choice.
Some have GED's, some don't. Some have testing from previous years of
homeschooling and didn't have to submit them at all. Some of the children
did dual enrollment and had no problem from the colleges at all getting in.
One girl in particular, who I know is a true unschooler just took her SAT's
and was accepted into all 4 colleges she applied to just on that. She had
never been tested yearly at all during her unschooling years. She learned
what she needed to when she decided what she wanted to do.
Mary B
_________________________________________________________________
Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE*
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
Lee Roversi
Hi listmates-
I'm on digest and still have a time keeping up with this prolific list!
Great sharing here recently.
On the subject of college/unschooling -
There is a great resource in Clonlara School for unschoolers who want to
have a highschool transcript/diploma for whatever their reasons. Clonlara
will take the child's accomplishments, interests, dabblings, reading,
playing, sports, music, singing, computer time, video time, quiet time,
volunteering, working for pay - whatever - and help translate it into
credits. They are a very expansive group of educators, who see unschooling
as a viable and solid way up the mountain of learning. www.clonlara.org
My son, Sky, decided that he wanted his four years or so of varied pursuits
honored by the 'mainstream' as a 'highschool' education. . . Clonlara
assisted him in making that happen. It was an interesting process. Now, he
is not so sure about college . . . travel and working and continued
independent studies in things he loves are happening for him now . . . but
he doesn't regret his path with Clonlara.
Aloha, Lee
NORTH COUNTRY FARMS
An Organic Family Farm & Tropical B&B Cottages
An Eco-Tourism Destination
P.O. Box 723
Kilauea, Kauai, HI 96754
808-828-1513 phone & voice mail
http://www.northcountryfarms.com
I'm on digest and still have a time keeping up with this prolific list!
Great sharing here recently.
On the subject of college/unschooling -
There is a great resource in Clonlara School for unschoolers who want to
have a highschool transcript/diploma for whatever their reasons. Clonlara
will take the child's accomplishments, interests, dabblings, reading,
playing, sports, music, singing, computer time, video time, quiet time,
volunteering, working for pay - whatever - and help translate it into
credits. They are a very expansive group of educators, who see unschooling
as a viable and solid way up the mountain of learning. www.clonlara.org
My son, Sky, decided that he wanted his four years or so of varied pursuits
honored by the 'mainstream' as a 'highschool' education. . . Clonlara
assisted him in making that happen. It was an interesting process. Now, he
is not so sure about college . . . travel and working and continued
independent studies in things he loves are happening for him now . . . but
he doesn't regret his path with Clonlara.
Aloha, Lee
NORTH COUNTRY FARMS
An Organic Family Farm & Tropical B&B Cottages
An Eco-Tourism Destination
P.O. Box 723
Kilauea, Kauai, HI 96754
808-828-1513 phone & voice mail
http://www.northcountryfarms.com
Have a Nice Day!
I wasn't following this thread, but saw the reference to college and thought I would add that Regents College is unschooling friendly.
Its now known as Exelcior College, in New York.
Kristen
Its now known as Exelcior College, in New York.
Kristen
----- Original Message -----
From: Lee Roversi
To: [email protected]
Sent: Friday, February 07, 2003 12:41 PM
Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] college
Hi listmates-
I'm on digest and still have a time keeping up with this prolific list!
Great sharing here recently.
On the subject of college/unschooling -
There is a great resource in Clonlara School for unschoolers who want to
have a highschool transcript/diploma for whatever their reasons. Clonlara
will take the child's accomplishments, interests, dabblings, reading,
playing, sports, music, singing, computer time, video time, quiet time,
volunteering, working for pay - whatever - and help translate it into
credits. They are a very expansive group of educators, who see unschooling
as a viable and solid way up the mountain of learning. www.clonlara.org
My son, Sky, decided that he wanted his four years or so of varied pursuits
honored by the 'mainstream' as a 'highschool' education. . . Clonlara
assisted him in making that happen. It was an interesting process. Now, he
is not so sure about college . . . travel and working and continued
independent studies in things he loves are happening for him now . . . but
he doesn't regret his path with Clonlara.
Aloha, Lee
NORTH COUNTRY FARMS
An Organic Family Farm & Tropical B&B Cottages
An Eco-Tourism Destination
P.O. Box 723
Kilauea, Kauai, HI 96754
808-828-1513 phone & voice mail
http://www.northcountryfarms.com
~~~~ Don't forget! If you change topics, change the subject line! ~~~~
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To unsubscribe from this group, click on the following link or address an email to:
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 4/7/2003 1:07:15 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
rubyprincesstsg@... writes:
I think Cait
victims are blunt trauma and hardly squashed. What about medicine fascinates
her? The money? The lifestyle? Most doctors DO get their hands bloody. (Not
my father, he's a shrink! <G>)
After all I doubt you get any extra consideration because your mom
muscles are attacched and how eyes are hooked in and what livers look like.
Snakes are great 'cause they have all the same organs, they're just long and
thin. You can look at bones and how they work and how they're different from
animal to animal. You can put pieces under a microscope. You can see what it
ate for breakfast.
And if you hand in a portfolio of each detailed dissection---complete with
photos and drawings, it could be what GETS you into college. Someone who's
willing to passionately pursue her interests is a MUCH better candidate for
acceptance in college than someone who "wants to help people". So I think you
definitely COULD get extra consideration. If I were the head of the bio
department and saw THAT portfolio, I'd certainly be impressed. Much more so
than with just another good SAT score. Here's someone who's willing to get
down & dirty---who's passionate about life and learning---who already is
pursuing biology/zoology----and who has a headstart and surely some good
questions.
If she's not really interested in learning about how the body works, why is
she dead-set on being a doctor?
~Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
rubyprincesstsg@... writes:
> That sounds way more involved than buying software and letting her know it'sUnschooling IS involved.
>
> there if she wants it or buying a book and leaving it around.
I think Cait
> would be disgusted by my bringing home roadkill for her to cut on. I thinkUnfortunately bodies don't come into the ER nice & clean. And many roadkill
> I
> would be too. Doesn't mean she won't/can't be a good doctor. Nice clean
> cadavers are much preferable to stinky squashed animals and there will be
> time for that when and if she gets to medical school or if she still wants
> to
> do that.
victims are blunt trauma and hardly squashed. What about medicine fascinates
her? The money? The lifestyle? Most doctors DO get their hands bloody. (Not
my father, he's a shrink! <G>)
After all I doubt you get any extra consideration because your mom
> brought roadkill home for you. But I'm sure it does have it's benefits toTime to step OUT of the box.You can gets TONS of practical experience in how
> learning too.
muscles are attacched and how eyes are hooked in and what livers look like.
Snakes are great 'cause they have all the same organs, they're just long and
thin. You can look at bones and how they work and how they're different from
animal to animal. You can put pieces under a microscope. You can see what it
ate for breakfast.
And if you hand in a portfolio of each detailed dissection---complete with
photos and drawings, it could be what GETS you into college. Someone who's
willing to passionately pursue her interests is a MUCH better candidate for
acceptance in college than someone who "wants to help people". So I think you
definitely COULD get extra consideration. If I were the head of the bio
department and saw THAT portfolio, I'd certainly be impressed. Much more so
than with just another good SAT score. Here's someone who's willing to get
down & dirty---who's passionate about life and learning---who already is
pursuing biology/zoology----and who has a headstart and surely some good
questions.
If she's not really interested in learning about how the body works, why is
she dead-set on being a doctor?
~Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
coyote's corner
Back in 1963, I started my 'career book'. It was on Egyptology. In fact, it was in hieroglyphics. It was two volumes. I spent two years on it. I had a translation on each page. It really was very well done.
It failed. The nun that required it had a problem with the 'reality' of it.
In any case - my mom believed 100% that I could do anything I wanted. (although - we had pretty much given up singing as a career)
At the time, my mom was a waitress near Brown University. She met a man from a university in Alexandria, Egypt. He was here on Sabbatical. She showed him the book. He took it home with him when he went home for a bit.
Upon his return, he informed us that I had been invited to apply to the university in Egypt!! He had information regarding scholarships, etc.
By the time I was in the twelfth grade, there was - in writing - the promise of a full scholarship. I was to live with this man and his wife and children. There was grant for living expenses.
All of this w/o SAT's - because of my career book.
Sadly, the man I was to stay with ended up leaving Egypt (political considerations by that time there was full blown war w/ Israel) and my mom & dad were not comfortable sending me to live in Egypt w/o knowing one person there!! (We're from RI - very into roots and connections!)
All w/o SAT's.
Janis
It failed. The nun that required it had a problem with the 'reality' of it.
In any case - my mom believed 100% that I could do anything I wanted. (although - we had pretty much given up singing as a career)
At the time, my mom was a waitress near Brown University. She met a man from a university in Alexandria, Egypt. He was here on Sabbatical. She showed him the book. He took it home with him when he went home for a bit.
Upon his return, he informed us that I had been invited to apply to the university in Egypt!! He had information regarding scholarships, etc.
By the time I was in the twelfth grade, there was - in writing - the promise of a full scholarship. I was to live with this man and his wife and children. There was grant for living expenses.
All of this w/o SAT's - because of my career book.
Sadly, the man I was to stay with ended up leaving Egypt (political considerations by that time there was full blown war w/ Israel) and my mom & dad were not comfortable sending me to live in Egypt w/o knowing one person there!! (We're from RI - very into roots and connections!)
All w/o SAT's.
Janis
----- Original Message -----
From: kbcdlovejo@...
To: [email protected]
Sent: Monday, April 07, 2003 1:34 PM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom]college
In a message dated 4/7/2003 1:07:15 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
rubyprincesstsg@... writes:
> That sounds way more involved than buying software and letting her know it's
>
> there if she wants it or buying a book and leaving it around.
Unschooling IS involved.
I think Cait
> would be disgusted by my bringing home roadkill for her to cut on. I think
> I
> would be too. Doesn't mean she won't/can't be a good doctor. Nice clean
> cadavers are much preferable to stinky squashed animals and there will be
> time for that when and if she gets to medical school or if she still wants
> to
> do that.
Unfortunately bodies don't come into the ER nice & clean. And many roadkill
victims are blunt trauma and hardly squashed. What about medicine fascinates
her? The money? The lifestyle? Most doctors DO get their hands bloody. (Not
my father, he's a shrink! <G>)
After all I doubt you get any extra consideration because your mom
> brought roadkill home for you. But I'm sure it does have it's benefits to
> learning too.
Time to step OUT of the box.You can gets TONS of practical experience in how
muscles are attacched and how eyes are hooked in and what livers look like.
Snakes are great 'cause they have all the same organs, they're just long and
thin. You can look at bones and how they work and how they're different from
animal to animal. You can put pieces under a microscope. You can see what it
ate for breakfast.
And if you hand in a portfolio of each detailed dissection---complete with
photos and drawings, it could be what GETS you into college. Someone who's
willing to passionately pursue her interests is a MUCH better candidate for
acceptance in college than someone who "wants to help people". So I think you
definitely COULD get extra consideration. If I were the head of the bio
department and saw THAT portfolio, I'd certainly be impressed. Much more so
than with just another good SAT score. Here's someone who's willing to get
down & dirty---who's passionate about life and learning---who already is
pursuing biology/zoology----and who has a headstart and surely some good
questions.
If she's not really interested in learning about how the body works, why is
she dead-set on being a doctor?
~Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 4/7/2003 1:49:42 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
kbcdlovejo@... writes:
that right now. It's not the blood or guts of it all. I think it would be
the rotten stinky part that would get her to say "no thanks" if I brought
that in for her.
Of course I could probably wait for some "fresh kill" but we don't often even
see ANY around my neighborhood and would probably have to venture to some
much more traveled highway and just wait. OR maybe we would be "lucky"
enough to find some.
Anyway, maybe I'll mention to her if she would like to do any of that. But I
can promise I won't be encouraging the road kill, but then if she's
interested...guess I'll be finding the gloves...
glena
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
kbcdlovejo@... writes:
> If she's not really interested in learning about how the body works, why isShe's interested but I don't think road kill interested. Still too girly for
> she dead-set on being a doctor?
>
>
that right now. It's not the blood or guts of it all. I think it would be
the rotten stinky part that would get her to say "no thanks" if I brought
that in for her.
Of course I could probably wait for some "fresh kill" but we don't often even
see ANY around my neighborhood and would probably have to venture to some
much more traveled highway and just wait. OR maybe we would be "lucky"
enough to find some.
Anyway, maybe I'll mention to her if she would like to do any of that. But I
can promise I won't be encouraging the road kill, but then if she's
interested...guess I'll be finding the gloves...
glena
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 4/7/2003 2:49:29 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
jana@... writes:
~Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
jana@... writes:
> In any case - my mom believed 100% that I could do anything I wanted.REALLY COOL!
> (although - we had pretty much given up singing as a career)
> At the time, my mom was a waitress near Brown University. She met a man
> from a university in Alexandria, Egypt. He was here on Sabbatical. She
> showed him the book. He took it home with him when he went home for a bit.
> Upon his return, he informed us that I had been invited to apply to the
> university in Egypt!! He had information regarding scholarships, etc.
> By the time I was in the twelfth grade, there was - in writing - the
> promise of a full scholarship. I was to live with this man and his wife and
> children. There was grant for living expenses.
> All of this w/o SAT's - because of my career book.
>
~Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 12/3/2004 3:20:37 PM Eastern Standard Time, "moonwindstarsky" <moonwindstarsky@...> writes:
Too bad you think so.
I feel *quite* successful. I have no college diploma. I'm 44.
College diploma does NOT equal success or guarantee it.
I'm actually *more* successful than my husband, who has an MBA. Bummer.
~Kelly
><<<<<
>
>
>It would, but the trend I see now is that it seems required for
>success or getting into the door of success (I just turned 18)
Too bad you think so.
I feel *quite* successful. I have no college diploma. I'm 44.
College diploma does NOT equal success or guarantee it.
I'm actually *more* successful than my husband, who has an MBA. Bummer.
~Kelly
[email protected]
Kelly, this is going to seem like a personal attack, and I really don't mean
it to. But I see contradiction in these two statements:
"I feel *quite* successful. I have no college diploma. I'm 44."
"I'm actually *more* successful than my husband, who has an MBA. Bummer.
~~~
More successful? Or differently successful? Did you set out to meet the
same goals and you made it and he didn't? Or were you on different paths?
Does he define success different than you? Is he content with his achievements
or does he feel he's standing in the shadow of yours?
I can't imagine why a person would say they are 'more successful' than their
spouse. It seems disrespectful, and at the very least buying into the
societal definitions of success that are portrayed in the media (bigger, better,
more than). Weren't you on the journey together? Didn't you help and support
him while he went after his goals, and weren't you aware of the reasons he
didn't meet them? If he didn't? Whose standard is he living by? Does he get
to define his own success? And what right is it of anyone else's to define
it for him? What basis of comparison is there between a person who goes to
school, joins the workforce and builds a career, and a person who dabbles with
school, has babies, raises them and takes a less traditional path?
Karen
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
it to. But I see contradiction in these two statements:
"I feel *quite* successful. I have no college diploma. I'm 44."
"I'm actually *more* successful than my husband, who has an MBA. Bummer.
~~~
More successful? Or differently successful? Did you set out to meet the
same goals and you made it and he didn't? Or were you on different paths?
Does he define success different than you? Is he content with his achievements
or does he feel he's standing in the shadow of yours?
I can't imagine why a person would say they are 'more successful' than their
spouse. It seems disrespectful, and at the very least buying into the
societal definitions of success that are portrayed in the media (bigger, better,
more than). Weren't you on the journey together? Didn't you help and support
him while he went after his goals, and weren't you aware of the reasons he
didn't meet them? If he didn't? Whose standard is he living by? Does he get
to define his own success? And what right is it of anyone else's to define
it for him? What basis of comparison is there between a person who goes to
school, joins the workforce and builds a career, and a person who dabbles with
school, has babies, raises them and takes a less traditional path?
>>College diploma does NOT equal success or guarantee it. <<Right. Everyone should be allowed to define their own success.
Karen
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 12/10/2004 11:30:11 AM Eastern Standard Time, tuckervill2@... writes:
Defining success is important. I LIKE what I do/have done. Ben's never been really happy at any job----military, food sales, wine & beverage business, pharmaceutical rep. They've all been just jobs. I take my passions and play with them (and make a living at the same time).
Financially, he makes more than I do, but only because he works more hours than I do. If I kept his schedule, I could make more----but I choose not to. Even if I didn't, that doesn't matter. I do what I like to do and am happy doing it. What I do makes a difference to me and to others. Ben doesn't get that warm fuzzy.
I don't think he feels as if he's in my shadow. I think he feels he hasn't made one. He's still searching for the sun.
But success for both of us is in passion and joy and "producing" something. He hasn't found his niche yet, so no----he doesn't feel as successful.
Yes, I've supported him in each of his changes. And I'm willing to do that again next month when he changes jobs again (into the Air National Guard fulltime)----but this change is not *the* change he's looking for. It's just another stepping stone to hopefully get where he wants to go.
~Kelly
>I'm happy with what I do. Always have been. Ben has that MBA and has never used it (in the management sense that it was intended).
>
>Kelly, this is going to seem like a personal attack, and I really don't mean
>it to. But I see contradiction in these two statements:
>
>
>"I feel *quite* successful. I have no college diploma. I'm 44."
>
>
>"I'm actually *more* successful than my husband, who has an MBA. Bummer.
>
>
>
>
>~~~
>
>More successful? Or differently successful? Did you set out to meet the same goals and you made it and he didn't? Or were you on different paths? Does he define success different than you? Is he content with his achievements or does he feel he's standing in the shadow of yours? <<<<<<<
Defining success is important. I LIKE what I do/have done. Ben's never been really happy at any job----military, food sales, wine & beverage business, pharmaceutical rep. They've all been just jobs. I take my passions and play with them (and make a living at the same time).
Financially, he makes more than I do, but only because he works more hours than I do. If I kept his schedule, I could make more----but I choose not to. Even if I didn't, that doesn't matter. I do what I like to do and am happy doing it. What I do makes a difference to me and to others. Ben doesn't get that warm fuzzy.
I don't think he feels as if he's in my shadow. I think he feels he hasn't made one. He's still searching for the sun.
But success for both of us is in passion and joy and "producing" something. He hasn't found his niche yet, so no----he doesn't feel as successful.
>>>>>>I can't imagine why a person would say they are 'more successful' than their spouse. It seems disrespectful, and at the very least buying into the societal definitions of success that are portrayed in the media (bigger, better, more than). Weren't you on the journey together? Didn't you help and support him while he went after his goals, and weren't you aware of the reasons he didn't meet them? If he didn't? Whose standard is he living by? Does he get to define his own success? And what right is it of anyone else's to define it for him? What basis of comparison is there between a person who goes to school, joins the workforce and builds a career, and a person who dabbles with school, has babies, raises them and takes a less traditional path? <<<<*He* gets to make that decision. He has a Master's degree that "proves" to many that he's successful. He doesn't feel that he's connected all the dots yet----he would still like to find something to do every day that makes a difference (outside of being a husband and father)---he wants a passion that can "pay the bills" too.
Yes, I've supported him in each of his changes. And I'm willing to do that again next month when he changes jobs again (into the Air National Guard fulltime)----but this change is not *the* change he's looking for. It's just another stepping stone to hopefully get where he wants to go.
~Kelly
arcarpenter2003
> In a message dated 12/3/2004 3:20:37 PM Eastern StandardTime, "moonwindstarsky" <moonwindstarsky@y...> writes:
>You know, college seemed geared that way when I was 18, too, in
> >
> >
> >
> >It would, but the trend I see now is that it seems required for
> >success or getting into the door of success (I just turned 18)
> <<<<<
>
1985. But once I got to college, I found pockets of students and
especially professors that questioned the definition of success --
that it wasn't just about money and jobs. Those who believed in
alternatives weren't apparent at first, but as I attended classes
and got to know people, I found lifetime friends and lots of
alternative viewpoints.
Peace,
Amy